EVE Search - The Unlikely Collapse of Civilization in EVE

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Nero Scuro	Posted - 2004.11.06 14:52:00 - [61] We haven't found a single Earth like planet in our real galaxy yet. Estimates say that the chances of one existing in every star system are very (very, etc) small. Course, there are lots of star systems, so... But 5000-10,000 star systems is NOT a lot. Chances of realistically finding an Earth like planet in EVE is nigh on nil. Planets around other star systems ARE common, but that doesn't mean Earth like ones are. I don't know WHERE you got that from... There aren't ANY Earth like planets in our own system. Mars is the nearest, and even that is massively different (and lethal). First off, it has a Carbon Dioxide based atmosphere. It has no magnetic field which means no polarisation which means atmosphere can form. Without an atmosphere, radiation bombards the planet. Nothing bigger than cells could survive that, and even then they'd have a hard time of it. Even if it DID have an oxygen atmosphere, its smaller size (and thus greater centrifugal spin), greater gravity and greater surface pressure would result in denser oxygen that we couldn't breath, because we'd need more powerful lungs. Mar's is colder. It has no internal heat either (molten core is far far cooler). Oxygen would become colder, thus making in denser, and it would literally turn to mist. Short of sucking it up of the ground you couldn't breathe it. Also, water oceans would freeze (actually, they'd boil because of the higher pressure, but whatever...). Short of doubling Mar's size, giving it a magnetic AND molten core AND increasing it's surface heat (by moving it closer to the sun or the sun closer to it, neither likely) there is NO way to terraform Mars. Sure, surviving on it WITH TECHNOLOGY is relatively easy, but I never said it wasn't. And doubling the gravity of Earth would have MASSIVE implications to it's structure and atmosphere. I can't be bothered to list them all, but suffice to say we couldn't adapt to it. Oh, and we couldn't survive with half the oxygen we do now. Don't know WHERE you got that from... And there are plenty of things worse than meteor impacts that aren't supernovas. Ion storms, black holes, shifts on axis, shifts in orbit, solar flares, meteor BELTS, radiation storms, the list goes on and on... ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2004.11.06 14:52:00 - [62] We haven't found a single Earth like planet in our real galaxy yet. Estimates say that the chances of one existing in every star system are very (very, etc) small. Course, there are lots of star systems, so... But 5000-10,000 star systems is NOT a lot. Chances of realistically finding an Earth like planet in EVE is nigh on nil. Planets around other star systems ARE common, but that doesn't mean Earth like ones are. I don't know WHERE you got that from... There aren't ANY Earth like planets in our own system. Mars is the nearest, and even that is massively different (and lethal). First off, it has a Carbon Dioxide based atmosphere. It has no magnetic field which means no polarisation which means atmosphere can form. Without an atmosphere, radiation bombards the planet. Nothing bigger than cells could survive that, and even then they'd have a hard time of it. Even if it DID have an oxygen atmosphere, its smaller size (and thus greater centrifugal spin), greater gravity and greater surface pressure would result in denser oxygen that we couldn't breath, because we'd need more powerful lungs. Mar's is colder. It has no internal heat either (molten core is far far cooler). Oxygen would become colder, thus making in denser, and it would literally turn to mist. Short of sucking it up of the ground you couldn't breathe it. Also, water oceans would freeze (actually, they'd boil because of the higher pressure, but whatever...). Short of doubling Mar's size, giving it a magnetic AND molten core AND increasing it's surface heat (by moving it closer to the sun or the sun closer to it, neither likely) there is NO way to terraform Mars. Sure, surviving on it WITH TECHNOLOGY is relatively easy, but I never said it wasn't. And doubling the gravity of Earth would have MASSIVE implications to it's structure and atmosphere. I can't be bothered to list them all, but suffice to say we couldn't adapt to it. Oh, and we couldn't survive with half the oxygen we do now. Don't know WHERE you got that from... And there are plenty of things worse than meteor impacts that aren't supernovas. Ion storms, black holes, shifts on axis, shifts in orbit, solar flares, meteor BELTS, radiation storms, the list goes on and on... ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2004.11.06 14:52:00 - [63] We haven't found a single Earth like planet in our real galaxy yet. Estimates say that the chances of one existing in every star system are very (very, etc) small. Course, there are lots of star systems, so... But 5000-10,000 star systems is NOT a lot. Chances of realistically finding an Earth like planet in EVE is nigh on nil. Planets around other star systems ARE common, but that doesn't mean Earth like ones are. I don't know WHERE you got that from... There aren't ANY Earth like planets in our own system. Mars is the nearest, and even that is massively different (and lethal). First off, it has a Carbon Dioxide based atmosphere. It has no magnetic field which means no polarisation which means atmosphere can form. Without an atmosphere, radiation bombards the planet. Nothing bigger than cells could survive that, and even then they'd have a hard time of it. Even if it DID have an oxygen atmosphere, its smaller size (and thus greater centrifugal spin), greater gravity and greater surface pressure would result in denser oxygen that we couldn't breath, because we'd need more powerful lungs. Mar's is colder. It has no internal heat either (molten core is far far cooler). Oxygen would become colder, thus making in denser, and it would literally turn to mist. Short of sucking it up of the ground you couldn't breathe it. Also, water oceans would freeze (actually, they'd boil because of the higher pressure, but whatever...). Short of doubling Mar's size, giving it a magnetic AND molten core AND increasing it's surface heat (by moving it closer to the sun or the sun closer to it, neither likely) there is NO way to terraform Mars. Sure, surviving on it WITH TECHNOLOGY is relatively easy, but I never said it wasn't. And doubling the gravity of Earth would have MASSIVE implications to it's structure and atmosphere. I can't be bothered to list them all, but suffice to say we couldn't adapt to it. Oh, and we couldn't survive with half the oxygen we do now. Don't know WHERE you got that from... And there are plenty of things worse than meteor impacts that aren't supernovas. Ion storms, black holes, shifts on axis, shifts in orbit, solar flares, meteor BELTS, radiation storms, the list goes on and on... ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.11.07 14:54:00 - [64] Originally by: Nero Scuro We haven't found a single Earth like planet in our real galaxy yet. Estimates say that the chances of one existing in every star system are very (very, etc) small. Course, there are lots of star systems, so... Habitable moons are a very real possibilty (Titan resembles early earth, and it's right in our solarsystem!). Originally by: Nero Scuro But 5000-10,000 star systems is NOT a lot. Chances of realistically finding an Earth like planet in EVE is nigh on nil. 'S prolly why most of the colonies died out, depending on others for continued safe existence, etc. Originally by: Nero Scuro Planets around other star systems ARE common, but that doesn't mean Earth like ones are. I don't know WHERE you got that from... Earth-like, probably not. Habitable planets are far more likely. Originally by: Nero Scuro And doubling the gravity of Earth would have MASSIVE implications PUNTASTIC! [Heterocephalus glaber]
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.11.07 14:54:00 - [65] Originally by: Nero Scuro We haven't found a single Earth like planet in our real galaxy yet. Estimates say that the chances of one existing in every star system are very (very, etc) small. Course, there are lots of star systems, so... Habitable moons are a very real possibilty (Titan resembles early earth, and it's right in our solarsystem!). Originally by: Nero Scuro But 5000-10,000 star systems is NOT a lot. Chances of realistically finding an Earth like planet in EVE is nigh on nil. 'S prolly why most of the colonies died out, depending on others for continued safe existence, etc. Originally by: Nero Scuro Planets around other star systems ARE common, but that doesn't mean Earth like ones are. I don't know WHERE you got that from... Earth-like, probably not. Habitable planets are far more likely. Originally by: Nero Scuro And doubling the gravity of Earth would have MASSIVE implications PUNTASTIC! [Heterocephalus glaber]
Discorporation Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2004.11.07 14:54:00 - [66] Originally by: Nero Scuro We haven't found a single Earth like planet in our real galaxy yet. Estimates say that the chances of one existing in every star system are very (very, etc) small. Course, there are lots of star systems, so... Habitable moons are a very real possibilty (Titan resembles early earth, and it's right in our solarsystem!). Originally by: Nero Scuro But 5000-10,000 star systems is NOT a lot. Chances of realistically finding an Earth like planet in EVE is nigh on nil. 'S prolly why most of the colonies died out, depending on others for continued safe existence, etc. Originally by: Nero Scuro Planets around other star systems ARE common, but that doesn't mean Earth like ones are. I don't know WHERE you got that from... Earth-like, probably not. Habitable planets are far more likely. Originally by: Nero Scuro And doubling the gravity of Earth would have MASSIVE implications PUNTASTIC!
Kyt Kraiten	Posted - 2004.11.07 15:51:00 - [67] Quote: There aren't ANY Earth like planets in our own system. Mars is the nearest, and even that is massively different (and lethal). First off, it has a Carbon Dioxide based atmosphere. It has no magnetic field which means no polarisation which means atmosphere can form. Without an atmosphere, radiation bombards the planet. Nothing bigger than cells could survive that, and even then they'd have a hard time of it. Even if it DID have an oxygen atmosphere, its smaller size (and thus greater centrifugal spin), greater gravity and greater surface pressure would result in denser oxygen that we couldn't breath, because we'd need more powerful lungs. Mar's is colder. It has no internal heat either (molten core is far far cooler). Oxygen would become colder, thus making in denser, and it would literally turn to mist. Short of sucking it up of the ground you couldn't breathe it. Also, water oceans would freeze (actually, they'd boil because of the higher pressure, but whatever...). actually, by seeding the icecaps with dark matter, such as genetically engineered moss, we could melt parts of it, thus releasing gasses trapped in the icecaps. this would increase airpressure, thus raising temperature. additionally, solar mirrors could be used to raise the temperature even further. the increased airpressure would also raise effective 'gravity'. i don't know about the magnetic field, i was under the impression it did have one, but i don't see why we wouldn't be able to develop ways around this. Quote: And there are plenty of things worse than meteor impacts that aren't supernovas. Ion storms, black holes, shifts on axis, shifts in orbit, solar flares, meteor BELTS, radiation storms, the list goes on and on... ion storms? are those even real phenomenon? black holes aren't exactly a very common occurance, as for shifts of orbits/etc, these are NOT as big a problem as asteroids can potentially be. life will survive and adapt to shifts, even if they are sudden (though you can't really get a sudden shift without a large impact or a massive gravity source coming very close to the planet, which the results of the gravity would cause more problems than the axis shift). solar flares are only a problem to life if you're actually inside the range of the flare. and if you are, your surface temperature is probably too hot to support life in the first place. radiation storms, again, are not a problem for the continued existence of life. and as for meteor belts, that's the same issue as asteroid impacts. small asteroids may not be much of a problem, but large sized ones ARE.
Kyt Kraiten	Posted - 2004.11.07 15:51:00 - [68] Quote: There aren't ANY Earth like planets in our own system. Mars is the nearest, and even that is massively different (and lethal). First off, it has a Carbon Dioxide based atmosphere. It has no magnetic field which means no polarisation which means atmosphere can form. Without an atmosphere, radiation bombards the planet. Nothing bigger than cells could survive that, and even then they'd have a hard time of it. Even if it DID have an oxygen atmosphere, its smaller size (and thus greater centrifugal spin), greater gravity and greater surface pressure would result in denser oxygen that we couldn't breath, because we'd need more powerful lungs. Mar's is colder. It has no internal heat either (molten core is far far cooler). Oxygen would become colder, thus making in denser, and it would literally turn to mist. Short of sucking it up of the ground you couldn't breathe it. Also, water oceans would freeze (actually, they'd boil because of the higher pressure, but whatever...). actually, by seeding the icecaps with dark matter, such as genetically engineered moss, we could melt parts of it, thus releasing gasses trapped in the icecaps. this would increase airpressure, thus raising temperature. additionally, solar mirrors could be used to raise the temperature even further. the increased airpressure would also raise effective 'gravity'. i don't know about the magnetic field, i was under the impression it did have one, but i don't see why we wouldn't be able to develop ways around this. Quote: And there are plenty of things worse than meteor impacts that aren't supernovas. Ion storms, black holes, shifts on axis, shifts in orbit, solar flares, meteor BELTS, radiation storms, the list goes on and on... ion storms? are those even real phenomenon? black holes aren't exactly a very common occurance, as for shifts of orbits/etc, these are NOT as big a problem as asteroids can potentially be. life will survive and adapt to shifts, even if they are sudden (though you can't really get a sudden shift without a large impact or a massive gravity source coming very close to the planet, which the results of the gravity would cause more problems than the axis shift). solar flares are only a problem to life if you're actually inside the range of the flare. and if you are, your surface temperature is probably too hot to support life in the first place. radiation storms, again, are not a problem for the continued existence of life. and as for meteor belts, that's the same issue as asteroid impacts. small asteroids may not be much of a problem, but large sized ones ARE.
Kyt Kraiten Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2004.11.07 15:51:00 - [69] Quote: There aren't ANY Earth like planets in our own system. Mars is the nearest, and even that is massively different (and lethal). First off, it has a Carbon Dioxide based atmosphere. It has no magnetic field which means no polarisation which means atmosphere can form. Without an atmosphere, radiation bombards the planet. Nothing bigger than cells could survive that, and even then they'd have a hard time of it. Even if it DID have an oxygen atmosphere, its smaller size (and thus greater centrifugal spin), greater gravity and greater surface pressure would result in denser oxygen that we couldn't breath, because we'd need more powerful lungs. Mar's is colder. It has no internal heat either (molten core is far far cooler). Oxygen would become colder, thus making in denser, and it would literally turn to mist. Short of sucking it up of the ground you couldn't breathe it. Also, water oceans would freeze (actually, they'd boil because of the higher pressure, but whatever...). actually, by seeding the icecaps with dark matter, such as genetically engineered moss, we could melt parts of it, thus releasing gasses trapped in the icecaps. this would increase airpressure, thus raising temperature. additionally, solar mirrors could be used to raise the temperature even further. the increased airpressure would also raise effective 'gravity'. i don't know about the magnetic field, i was under the impression it did have one, but i don't see why we wouldn't be able to develop ways around this. Quote: And there are plenty of things worse than meteor impacts that aren't supernovas. Ion storms, black holes, shifts on axis, shifts in orbit, solar flares, meteor BELTS, radiation storms, the list goes on and on... ion storms? are those even real phenomenon? black holes aren't exactly a very common occurance, as for shifts of orbits/etc, these are NOT as big a problem as asteroids can potentially be. life will survive and adapt to shifts, even if they are sudden (though you can't really get a sudden shift without a large impact or a massive gravity source coming very close to the planet, which the results of the gravity would cause more problems than the axis shift). solar flares are only a problem to life if you're actually inside the range of the flare. and if you are, your surface temperature is probably too hot to support life in the first place. radiation storms, again, are not a problem for the continued existence of life. and as for meteor belts, that's the same issue as asteroid impacts. small asteroids may not be much of a problem, but large sized ones ARE.
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2004.11.07 20:28:00 - [70] Quote: actually, by seeding the icecaps with dark matter, such as genetically engineered moss, Dark Matter is simply stuff that we have yet to identify. It has mass and a gravitational force, so we know it's there, but we don't know what it is. Thus the name... Oh, and there isn't enough 'trapped gasses' on Mars to do what you claim. It was just speculation, and would almost certainly fail, if simply because it wouldn't be frozen if it could stay as a gas in the first place. The ice-caps of Mars are tiny and mostly comprised of Nitrogen... Raising air pressure would not raise gravity. Sure, both pressure and gravity can crush things, but it's gravity that affects pressure, not the other way around. And Mars doesn't have a magnetic core, and thus no magnetic field. That means no protection against radiation. At all. Quote: ion storms? are those even real phenomenon? Yes. Nebulae that are either radioactively (unstable, shooting off bits of themselves) or ionically (not posessing enough electrons which causes them to rip them from other atoms/molecules) charged are called Ion/Radiation storms. They could easily wipe out everything on a planet. Cells included. Solar Flares, while relatively small, send out MASSIVE waves of radiation. Without Earth's magnetic field and blankets of oxygen and CFCs protecting us we'd fry. Again, cells included. I wasn't refering to being hit directly by a black hole. Even being hundreds of light years away can have serious affects. Tidal shifts, being pulled off axis/orbit, tectonic crust ruptures, etc, are all viable side-effects. Quote: Titan resembles early earth, and it's right in our solarsystem! Early Earth was a seething mass of molten rock. So is Titan. The only moon vaguely close to supporting life is Europa, and that's only if it has a molten core AND liquid oceans BENEATH the surface. There is no proof for this. As far as we know it's just a ball of ice. ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2004.11.07 20:28:00 - [71] Quote: actually, by seeding the icecaps with dark matter, such as genetically engineered moss, Dark Matter is simply stuff that we have yet to identify. It has mass and a gravitational force, so we know it's there, but we don't know what it is. Thus the name... Oh, and there isn't enough 'trapped gasses' on Mars to do what you claim. It was just speculation, and would almost certainly fail, if simply because it wouldn't be frozen if it could stay as a gas in the first place. The ice-caps of Mars are tiny and mostly comprised of Nitrogen... Raising air pressure would not raise gravity. Sure, both pressure and gravity can crush things, but it's gravity that affects pressure, not the other way around. And Mars doesn't have a magnetic core, and thus no magnetic field. That means no protection against radiation. At all. Quote: ion storms? are those even real phenomenon? Yes. Nebulae that are either radioactively (unstable, shooting off bits of themselves) or ionically (not posessing enough electrons which causes them to rip them from other atoms/molecules) charged are called Ion/Radiation storms. They could easily wipe out everything on a planet. Cells included. Solar Flares, while relatively small, send out MASSIVE waves of radiation. Without Earth's magnetic field and blankets of oxygen and CFCs protecting us we'd fry. Again, cells included. I wasn't refering to being hit directly by a black hole. Even being hundreds of light years away can have serious affects. Tidal shifts, being pulled off axis/orbit, tectonic crust ruptures, etc, are all viable side-effects. Quote: Titan resembles early earth, and it's right in our solarsystem! Early Earth was a seething mass of molten rock. So is Titan. The only moon vaguely close to supporting life is Europa, and that's only if it has a molten core AND liquid oceans BENEATH the surface. There is no proof for this. As far as we know it's just a ball of ice. ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2004.11.07 20:28:00 - [72] Quote: actually, by seeding the icecaps with dark matter, such as genetically engineered moss, Dark Matter is simply stuff that we have yet to identify. It has mass and a gravitational force, so we know it's there, but we don't know what it is. Thus the name... Oh, and there isn't enough 'trapped gasses' on Mars to do what you claim. It was just speculation, and would almost certainly fail, if simply because it wouldn't be frozen if it could stay as a gas in the first place. The ice-caps of Mars are tiny and mostly comprised of Nitrogen... Raising air pressure would not raise gravity. Sure, both pressure and gravity can crush things, but it's gravity that affects pressure, not the other way around. And Mars doesn't have a magnetic core, and thus no magnetic field. That means no protection against radiation. At all. Quote: ion storms? are those even real phenomenon? Yes. Nebulae that are either radioactively (unstable, shooting off bits of themselves) or ionically (not posessing enough electrons which causes them to rip them from other atoms/molecules) charged are called Ion/Radiation storms. They could easily wipe out everything on a planet. Cells included. Solar Flares, while relatively small, send out MASSIVE waves of radiation. Without Earth's magnetic field and blankets of oxygen and CFCs protecting us we'd fry. Again, cells included. I wasn't refering to being hit directly by a black hole. Even being hundreds of light years away can have serious affects. Tidal shifts, being pulled off axis/orbit, tectonic crust ruptures, etc, are all viable side-effects. Quote: Titan resembles early earth, and it's right in our solarsystem! Early Earth was a seething mass of molten rock. So is Titan. The only moon vaguely close to supporting life is Europa, and that's only if it has a molten core AND liquid oceans BENEATH the surface. There is no proof for this. As far as we know it's just a ball of ice. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Kyt Kraiten	Posted - 2004.11.07 21:12:00 - [73] Originally by: Nero Scuro Dark Matter is simply stuff that we have yet to identify. It has mass and a gravitational force, so we know it's there, but we don't know what it is. Thus the name... uhm, that's not the dark matter i was talking about. i was talking about 'dark' colored material. Quote: Oh, and there isn't enough 'trapped gasses' on Mars to do what you claim. It was just speculation, and would almost certainly fail, if simply because it wouldn't be frozen if it could stay as a gas in the first place. The ice-caps of Mars are tiny and mostly comprised of Nitrogen... uhm, not true. first of all, the icecaps there are not quite as tiny as you make them out to be, second of all, it has been established through spectrography that BOTH icecaps contain significant amounts of water. thirdly, there most definitely ARE enough trapped gas on mars to do just what i claim. Quote: Raising air pressure would not raise gravity. Sure, both pressure and gravity can crush things, but it's gravity that affects pressure, not the other way around. well duh, i never did claim that. Quote: Early Earth was a seething mass of molten rock. So is Titan. titan isn't a seething mass of molten rock. he is ofcourse referring to early earth about a billion years after it formed, right before life started. Quote: The only moon vaguely close to supporting life is Europa, and that's only if it has a molten core AND liquid oceans BENEATH the surface. There is no proof for this. As far as we know it's just a ball of ice. we do actually have proof that europa has some sort of liquid ocean due to the massive ****s that appear on the surface all across the moon that are consistent with ice moving on a liquid base in conjuncture with jupiters gravity. you make a lot of absolute statements (this is not possible, blah blah). i'm sorry, but you have no basis for being so absolute. you don't know as much as you try to make yourself appear to. ______________________________________ Have we sent the 'don't shoot we're pathetic' transmission yet?*
Kyt Kraiten	Posted - 2004.11.07 21:12:00 - [74] Originally by: Nero Scuro Dark Matter is simply stuff that we have yet to identify. It has mass and a gravitational force, so we know it's there, but we don't know what it is. Thus the name... uhm, that's not the dark matter i was talking about. i was talking about 'dark' colored material. Quote: Oh, and there isn't enough 'trapped gasses' on Mars to do what you claim. It was just speculation, and would almost certainly fail, if simply because it wouldn't be frozen if it could stay as a gas in the first place. The ice-caps of Mars are tiny and mostly comprised of Nitrogen... uhm, not true. first of all, the icecaps there are not quite as tiny as you make them out to be, second of all, it has been established through spectrography that BOTH icecaps contain significant amounts of water. thirdly, there most definitely ARE enough trapped gas on mars to do just what i claim. Quote: Raising air pressure would not raise gravity. Sure, both pressure and gravity can crush things, but it's gravity that affects pressure, not the other way around. well duh, i never did claim that. Quote: Early Earth was a seething mass of molten rock. So is Titan. titan isn't a seething mass of molten rock. he is ofcourse referring to early earth about a billion years after it formed, right before life started. Quote: The only moon vaguely close to supporting life is Europa, and that's only if it has a molten core AND liquid oceans BENEATH the surface. There is no proof for this. As far as we know it's just a ball of ice. we do actually have proof that europa has some sort of liquid ocean due to the massive ****s that appear on the surface all across the moon that are consistent with ice moving on a liquid base in conjuncture with jupiters gravity. you make a lot of absolute statements (this is not possible, blah blah). i'm sorry, but you have no basis for being so absolute. you don't know as much as you try to make yourself appear to. ______________________________________ Have we sent the 'don't shoot we're pathetic' transmission yet?*
Kyt Kraiten Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2004.11.07 21:12:00 - [75] Originally by: Nero Scuro Dark Matter is simply stuff that we have yet to identify. It has mass and a gravitational force, so we know it's there, but we don't know what it is. Thus the name... uhm, that's not the dark matter i was talking about. i was talking about 'dark' colored material. Quote: Oh, and there isn't enough 'trapped gasses' on Mars to do what you claim. It was just speculation, and would almost certainly fail, if simply because it wouldn't be frozen if it could stay as a gas in the first place. The ice-caps of Mars are tiny and mostly comprised of Nitrogen... uhm, not true. first of all, the icecaps there are not quite as tiny as you make them out to be, second of all, it has been established through spectrography that BOTH icecaps contain significant amounts of water. thirdly, there most definitely ARE enough trapped gas on mars to do just what i claim. Quote: Raising air pressure would not raise gravity. Sure, both pressure and gravity can crush things, but it's gravity that affects pressure, not the other way around. well duh, i never did claim that. Quote: Early Earth was a seething mass of molten rock. So is Titan. titan isn't a seething mass of molten rock. he is ofcourse referring to early earth about a billion years after it formed, right before life started. Quote: The only moon vaguely close to supporting life is Europa, and that's only if it has a molten core AND liquid oceans BENEATH the surface. There is no proof for this. As far as we know it's just a ball of ice. we do actually have proof that europa has some sort of liquid ocean due to the massive ****s that appear on the surface all across the moon that are consistent with ice moving on a liquid base in conjuncture with jupiters gravity. you make a lot of absolute statements (this is not possible, blah blah). i'm sorry, but you have no basis for being so absolute. you don't know as much as you try to make yourself appear to. ______________________________________ Have we sent the 'don't shoot we're pathetic' transmission yet?*
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2004.11.08 03:53:00 - [76] Quote: uhm, that's not the dark matter i was talking about. Don't mix terms. Dark Matter is the stuff I explained. I don't even know what you were talking about... Quote: uhm, not true. first of all, the icecaps there are not quite as tiny as you make them out to be, second of all, it has been established through spectrography that BOTH icecaps contain significant amounts of water. thirdly, there most definitely ARE enough trapped gas on mars to do just what i claim. Firstly, I didn't say there wasn't a lot of water in them, just that it was mostly Nitrogen (and Carbon). Nitrogen is poisones in large quantaties. Secondly, the ice-caps are tiny IN WATER/OXYGEN CONTENT. The only reason people think that there is enough is because it hasn't been proven that there isn't enough, which is apparently proof enough for some people... Thirdly, coming back to your solar mirror idea - the hell? Do you have ANY idea how many mirrors that'd take? Not to mention the fact that without an atmosphere the heat would bounce off these and back out into space... Ironic, really, since you need the heat to make the atmosphere not freeze again, but you need the atmosphere to stop the heat being bounced back off into space... Quote: well duh, i never did claim that. You said that effective gravity would be raised. No, it wouldn't. Effective pressure would be raised, pressure DOES NOT affect gravity. Quote: titan isn't a seething mass of molten rock. he is ofcourse referring to early earth about a billion years after it formed, right before life started. Sorry, I was thinking of the wrong moon... Although Titan is nothing like Early Earth either. It has a far lower temperature (Earth is now at the coolest it has EVER been, and Titan is still colder), nearly twice the gravity, half the size, far denser atmosphere, I could go on for HOURS. Literally. Quote: we do actually have proof that europa has some sort of liquid ocean due to the massive ***s that appear on the surface all across the moon that are consistent with ice moving on a liquid base in conjuncture with jupiters gravity Those *s ARE formed by Jupiter's gravitational pull, true, but that doesn't mean that there is a liquid ocean beneath. Just that Jupiter has one hell of a strong grav pull... And even if there was liquid oceans, that doesn't help our colonists, does it? Quote:** you make a lot of absolute statements (this is not possible, blah blah). i'm sorry, but you have no basis for being so absolute. you don't know as much as you try to make yourself appear to. you make a lot of absolute statements (this is possible, blah blah). i'm sorry, but you have no basis for being so absolute. you don't know as much as you try to make yourself appear to. ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2004.11.08 03:53:00 - [77] Quote: uhm, that's not the dark matter i was talking about. Don't mix terms. Dark Matter is the stuff I explained. I don't even know what you were talking about... Quote: uhm, not true. first of all, the icecaps there are not quite as tiny as you make them out to be, second of all, it has been established through spectrography that BOTH icecaps contain significant amounts of water. thirdly, there most definitely ARE enough trapped gas on mars to do just what i claim. Firstly, I didn't say there wasn't a lot of water in them, just that it was mostly Nitrogen (and Carbon). Nitrogen is poisones in large quantaties. Secondly, the ice-caps are tiny IN WATER/OXYGEN CONTENT. The only reason people think that there is enough is because it hasn't been proven that there isn't enough, which is apparently proof enough for some people... Thirdly, coming back to your solar mirror idea - the hell? Do you have ANY idea how many mirrors that'd take? Not to mention the fact that without an atmosphere the heat would bounce off these and back out into space... Ironic, really, since you need the heat to make the atmosphere not freeze again, but you need the atmosphere to stop the heat being bounced back off into space... Quote: well duh, i never did claim that. You said that effective gravity would be raised. No, it wouldn't. Effective pressure would be raised, pressure DOES NOT affect gravity. Quote: titan isn't a seething mass of molten rock. he is ofcourse referring to early earth about a billion years after it formed, right before life started. Sorry, I was thinking of the wrong moon... Although Titan is nothing like Early Earth either. It has a far lower temperature (Earth is now at the coolest it has EVER been, and Titan is still colder), nearly twice the gravity, half the size, far denser atmosphere, I could go on for HOURS. Literally. Quote: we do actually have proof that europa has some sort of liquid ocean due to the massive ***s that appear on the surface all across the moon that are consistent with ice moving on a liquid base in conjuncture with jupiters gravity Those *s ARE formed by Jupiter's gravitational pull, true, but that doesn't mean that there is a liquid ocean beneath. Just that Jupiter has one hell of a strong grav pull... And even if there was liquid oceans, that doesn't help our colonists, does it? Quote:** you make a lot of absolute statements (this is not possible, blah blah). i'm sorry, but you have no basis for being so absolute. you don't know as much as you try to make yourself appear to. you make a lot of absolute statements (this is possible, blah blah). i'm sorry, but you have no basis for being so absolute. you don't know as much as you try to make yourself appear to. ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2004.11.08 03:53:00 - [78] Quote: uhm, that's not the dark matter i was talking about. Don't mix terms. Dark Matter is the stuff I explained. I don't even know what you were talking about... Quote: uhm, not true. first of all, the icecaps there are not quite as tiny as you make them out to be, second of all, it has been established through spectrography that BOTH icecaps contain significant amounts of water. thirdly, there most definitely ARE enough trapped gas on mars to do just what i claim. Firstly, I didn't say there wasn't a lot of water in them, just that it was mostly Nitrogen (and Carbon). Nitrogen is poisones in large quantaties. Secondly, the ice-caps are tiny IN WATER/OXYGEN CONTENT. The only reason people think that there is enough is because it hasn't been proven that there isn't enough, which is apparently proof enough for some people... Thirdly, coming back to your solar mirror idea - the hell? Do you have ANY idea how many mirrors that'd take? Not to mention the fact that without an atmosphere the heat would bounce off these and back out into space... Ironic, really, since you need the heat to make the atmosphere not freeze again, but you need the atmosphere to stop the heat being bounced back off into space... Quote: well duh, i never did claim that. You said that effective gravity would be raised. No, it wouldn't. Effective pressure would be raised, pressure DOES NOT affect gravity. Quote: titan isn't a seething mass of molten rock. he is ofcourse referring to early earth about a billion years after it formed, right before life started. Sorry, I was thinking of the wrong moon... Although Titan is nothing like Early Earth either. It has a far lower temperature (Earth is now at the coolest it has EVER been, and Titan is still colder), nearly twice the gravity, half the size, far denser atmosphere, I could go on for HOURS. Literally. Quote: we do actually have proof that europa has some sort of liquid ocean due to the massive ***s that appear on the surface all across the moon that are consistent with ice moving on a liquid base in conjuncture with jupiters gravity Those *s ARE formed by Jupiter's gravitational pull, true, but that doesn't mean that there is a liquid ocean beneath. Just that Jupiter has one hell of a strong grav pull... And even if there was liquid oceans, that doesn't help our colonists, does it? Quote:** you make a lot of absolute statements (this is not possible, blah blah). i'm sorry, but you have no basis for being so absolute. you don't know as much as you try to make yourself appear to. you make a lot of absolute statements (this is possible, blah blah). i'm sorry, but you have no basis for being so absolute. you don't know as much as you try to make yourself appear to. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Kyt Kraiten	Posted - 2004.11.08 09:11:00 - [79] Edited by: Kyt Kraiten on 08/11/2004 09:16:44 Originally by: Nero Scuro Don't mix terms. Dark Matter is the stuff I explained. I don't even know what you were talking about... i was talking about dark colored material, like algae or sand. i probably should have been more clear. Quote: Firstly, I didn't say there wasn't a lot of water in them, just that it was mostly Nitrogen (and Carbon). Nitrogen is poisones in large quantaties. yes, but that's exactly the point. create a denser atmosphere first, then convert that atmosphere. Quote: Secondly, the ice-caps are tiny IN WATER/OXYGEN CONTENT. The only reason people think that there is enough is because it hasn't been proven that there isn't enough, which is apparently proof enough for some people... spectrography analysis suggests that there is plenty. Quote: Thirdly, coming back to your solar mirror idea - the hell? Do you have ANY idea how many mirrors that'd take? Not to mention the fact that without an atmosphere the heat would bounce off these and back out into space... Ironic, really, since you need the heat to make the atmosphere not freeze again, but you need the atmosphere to stop the heat being bounced back off into space... obviously it'd be a gradual process, so it's not really that ironic in practice. as for the number/size of the mirrors, i agree that it would be an impressive engineering feat, but then, so would be terraforming an entire planet. i'm afraid that the colonization/terraforming of other worlds is going to be neccesary shortly. well, not really afraid. Quote: Sorry, I was thinking of the wrong moon... there is not a single moon in the solar system that is a seething mass of molten rock. maybe you're thinking of IO, which is a solid moon that just happens to have the most volcanic activity of any body in the solar system. (doesn't mean it's surface is molten rock) Quote: Although Titan is nothing like Early Earth either. It has a far lower temperature (Earth is now at the coolest it has EVER been, and Titan is still colder), nearly twice the gravity, half the size, far denser atmosphere, I could go on for HOURS. Literally. on the contrary, titan is very very much like early earth. it's atmospheric makeup is very similar, it's thought to have a liquid ocean of methane (and recent cassini radar data does show unusually flat areas which could indicate just that). earth now is not at it's coolest as it's ever been btw, unless you've forgotten the ice ages. not to mention the 'snowball earth' theory, which i don't put much stock in, but is interesting nonetheless. early earth atmosphere was CONSIDERABLY denser than today's atmosphere, a lot of it has dilluted, got trapped in rock and simply ran off into space. i am not familiar with the mass/gravity of titan so i can't really judge that, size shouldn't really matter (nor two times gravity) when it comes to evolving life. i very much doubt you could go on for hours. Quote: Those ***s ARE formed by Jupiter's gravitational pull, true, but that doesn't mean that there is a liquid ocean beneath. Just that Jupiter has one hell of a strong grav pull... And even if there was liquid oceans, that doesn't help our colonists, does it? the fact that these are A: really really deep **s, and B: don't seem to just refreeze over but instead act just like they would if there was a liquid ocean underneath suggests that indeed, there is a liquid ocean underneath. and yes, it would help our colonists because it would supply them with a source of water (provided it's a water ocean). oh, and i don't make many absolute statements, i state possibilities, you state impossibilities. impossibilities tend to become possibilities as science progresses. ______________________________________ Have we sent the 'don't shoot we're pathetic' transmission yet?*
Kyt Kraiten	Posted - 2004.11.08 09:11:00 - [80] Edited by: Kyt Kraiten on 08/11/2004 09:16:44 Originally by: Nero Scuro Don't mix terms. Dark Matter is the stuff I explained. I don't even know what you were talking about... i was talking about dark colored material, like algae or sand. i probably should have been more clear. Quote: Firstly, I didn't say there wasn't a lot of water in them, just that it was mostly Nitrogen (and Carbon). Nitrogen is poisones in large quantaties. yes, but that's exactly the point. create a denser atmosphere first, then convert that atmosphere. Quote: Secondly, the ice-caps are tiny IN WATER/OXYGEN CONTENT. The only reason people think that there is enough is because it hasn't been proven that there isn't enough, which is apparently proof enough for some people... spectrography analysis suggests that there is plenty. Quote: Thirdly, coming back to your solar mirror idea - the hell? Do you have ANY idea how many mirrors that'd take? Not to mention the fact that without an atmosphere the heat would bounce off these and back out into space... Ironic, really, since you need the heat to make the atmosphere not freeze again, but you need the atmosphere to stop the heat being bounced back off into space... obviously it'd be a gradual process, so it's not really that ironic in practice. as for the number/size of the mirrors, i agree that it would be an impressive engineering feat, but then, so would be terraforming an entire planet. i'm afraid that the colonization/terraforming of other worlds is going to be neccesary shortly. well, not really afraid. Quote: Sorry, I was thinking of the wrong moon... there is not a single moon in the solar system that is a seething mass of molten rock. maybe you're thinking of IO, which is a solid moon that just happens to have the most volcanic activity of any body in the solar system. (doesn't mean it's surface is molten rock) Quote: Although Titan is nothing like Early Earth either. It has a far lower temperature (Earth is now at the coolest it has EVER been, and Titan is still colder), nearly twice the gravity, half the size, far denser atmosphere, I could go on for HOURS. Literally. on the contrary, titan is very very much like early earth. it's atmospheric makeup is very similar, it's thought to have a liquid ocean of methane (and recent cassini radar data does show unusually flat areas which could indicate just that). earth now is not at it's coolest as it's ever been btw, unless you've forgotten the ice ages. not to mention the 'snowball earth' theory, which i don't put much stock in, but is interesting nonetheless. early earth atmosphere was CONSIDERABLY denser than today's atmosphere, a lot of it has dilluted, got trapped in rock and simply ran off into space. i am not familiar with the mass/gravity of titan so i can't really judge that, size shouldn't really matter (nor two times gravity) when it comes to evolving life. i very much doubt you could go on for hours. Quote: Those ***s ARE formed by Jupiter's gravitational pull, true, but that doesn't mean that there is a liquid ocean beneath. Just that Jupiter has one hell of a strong grav pull... And even if there was liquid oceans, that doesn't help our colonists, does it? the fact that these are A: really really deep **s, and B: don't seem to just refreeze over but instead act just like they would if there was a liquid ocean underneath suggests that indeed, there is a liquid ocean underneath. and yes, it would help our colonists because it would supply them with a source of water (provided it's a water ocean). oh, and i don't make many absolute statements, i state possibilities, you state impossibilities. impossibilities tend to become possibilities as science progresses. ______________________________________ Have we sent the 'don't shoot we're pathetic' transmission yet?*
Kyt Kraiten Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2004.11.08 09:11:00 - [81] Edited by: Kyt Kraiten on 08/11/2004 09:16:44 Originally by: Nero Scuro Don't mix terms. Dark Matter is the stuff I explained. I don't even know what you were talking about... i was talking about dark colored material, like algae or sand. i probably should have been more clear. Quote: Firstly, I didn't say there wasn't a lot of water in them, just that it was mostly Nitrogen (and Carbon). Nitrogen is poisones in large quantaties. yes, but that's exactly the point. create a denser atmosphere first, then convert that atmosphere. Quote: Secondly, the ice-caps are tiny IN WATER/OXYGEN CONTENT. The only reason people think that there is enough is because it hasn't been proven that there isn't enough, which is apparently proof enough for some people... spectrography analysis suggests that there is plenty. Quote: Thirdly, coming back to your solar mirror idea - the hell? Do you have ANY idea how many mirrors that'd take? Not to mention the fact that without an atmosphere the heat would bounce off these and back out into space... Ironic, really, since you need the heat to make the atmosphere not freeze again, but you need the atmosphere to stop the heat being bounced back off into space... obviously it'd be a gradual process, so it's not really that ironic in practice. as for the number/size of the mirrors, i agree that it would be an impressive engineering feat, but then, so would be terraforming an entire planet. i'm afraid that the colonization/terraforming of other worlds is going to be neccesary shortly. well, not really afraid. Quote: Sorry, I was thinking of the wrong moon... there is not a single moon in the solar system that is a seething mass of molten rock. maybe you're thinking of IO, which is a solid moon that just happens to have the most volcanic activity of any body in the solar system. (doesn't mean it's surface is molten rock) Quote: Although Titan is nothing like Early Earth either. It has a far lower temperature (Earth is now at the coolest it has EVER been, and Titan is still colder), nearly twice the gravity, half the size, far denser atmosphere, I could go on for HOURS. Literally. on the contrary, titan is very very much like early earth. it's atmospheric makeup is very similar, it's thought to have a liquid ocean of methane (and recent cassini radar data does show unusually flat areas which could indicate just that). earth now is not at it's coolest as it's ever been btw, unless you've forgotten the ice ages. not to mention the 'snowball earth' theory, which i don't put much stock in, but is interesting nonetheless. early earth atmosphere was CONSIDERABLY denser than today's atmosphere, a lot of it has dilluted, got trapped in rock and simply ran off into space. i am not familiar with the mass/gravity of titan so i can't really judge that, size shouldn't really matter (nor two times gravity) when it comes to evolving life. i very much doubt you could go on for hours. Quote: Those ***s ARE formed by Jupiter's gravitational pull, true, but that doesn't mean that there is a liquid ocean beneath. Just that Jupiter has one hell of a strong grav pull... And even if there was liquid oceans, that doesn't help our colonists, does it? the fact that these are A: really really deep **s, and B: don't seem to just refreeze over but instead act just like they would if there was a liquid ocean underneath suggests that indeed, there is a liquid ocean underneath. and yes, it would help our colonists because it would supply them with a source of water (provided it's a water ocean). oh, and i don't make many absolute statements, i state possibilities, you state impossibilities. impossibilities tend to become possibilities as science progresses. ______________________________________ Have we sent the 'don't shoot we're pathetic' transmission yet?*
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2004.11.08 16:31:00 - [82] Quote: yes, but that's exactly the point. create a denser atmosphere first, then convert that atmosphere. Convert it? I'm not even going to bother... Quote: there is not a single moon in the solar system that is a seething mass of molten rock. maybe you're thinking of IO, which is a solid moon that just happens to have the most volcanic activity of any body in the solar system. (doesn't mean it's surface is molten rock) It has rivers of molten rock covering it and THE largest and most active volcanoes in the solar system. If that isn't seething, I don't know what is... Quote: earth now is not at it's coolest as it's ever been btw, unless you've forgotten the ice ages I was talking in relative time. The last ice age was what? 100,000 years ago? And Earth has existed for 4 billion... Quote: blah blah blah when it comes to evolving life. Sorry? I thought we were talking about supporting HUMANS here... Quote: i very much doubt you could go on for hours. I could, it just depends how fast you can read... Quote: the fact that these are A: really really deep ***s, and B: don't seem to just refreeze over but instead act just like they would if there was a liquid ocean underneath suggests that indeed, there is a liquid ocean underneath Uh... those could just as easily be formed by slurry or softer dirt deposits, which are also much more likely to exist. Quote: it would help our colonists because it would supply them with a source of water (provided it's a water ocean). Oh good! So ASSUMING that it's a water ocean, they're now all Ok, right? So they don't have to worry about is virtually no gravity, no air, sub-artic temperatures, intense radiation for half year and NO HEAT WHATSOEVER (as in, absolute zero) for the other half. Quote:** oh, and i don't make many absolute statements, i state possibilities, you state impossibilities. impossibilities tend to become possibilities as science progresses. First off, I was talking about the chances of another planet supporting human life without the extensive use of technology. That is what the topic IS about... Secondly, all these planets/moons that COULD support life all require that this and this and this be true, just so that there COULD be a chance of some primitive cells existing or something. I'm being realistic, you're just hoping beyond hope. ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2004.11.08 16:31:00 - [83] Quote: yes, but that's exactly the point. create a denser atmosphere first, then convert that atmosphere. Convert it? I'm not even going to bother... Quote: there is not a single moon in the solar system that is a seething mass of molten rock. maybe you're thinking of IO, which is a solid moon that just happens to have the most volcanic activity of any body in the solar system. (doesn't mean it's surface is molten rock) It has rivers of molten rock covering it and THE largest and most active volcanoes in the solar system. If that isn't seething, I don't know what is... Quote: earth now is not at it's coolest as it's ever been btw, unless you've forgotten the ice ages I was talking in relative time. The last ice age was what? 100,000 years ago? And Earth has existed for 4 billion... Quote: blah blah blah when it comes to evolving life. Sorry? I thought we were talking about supporting HUMANS here... Quote: i very much doubt you could go on for hours. I could, it just depends how fast you can read... Quote: the fact that these are A: really really deep ***s, and B: don't seem to just refreeze over but instead act just like they would if there was a liquid ocean underneath suggests that indeed, there is a liquid ocean underneath Uh... those could just as easily be formed by slurry or softer dirt deposits, which are also much more likely to exist. Quote: it would help our colonists because it would supply them with a source of water (provided it's a water ocean). Oh good! So ASSUMING that it's a water ocean, they're now all Ok, right? So they don't have to worry about is virtually no gravity, no air, sub-artic temperatures, intense radiation for half year and NO HEAT WHATSOEVER (as in, absolute zero) for the other half. Quote:** oh, and i don't make many absolute statements, i state possibilities, you state impossibilities. impossibilities tend to become possibilities as science progresses. First off, I was talking about the chances of another planet supporting human life without the extensive use of technology. That is what the topic IS about... Secondly, all these planets/moons that COULD support life all require that this and this and this be true, just so that there COULD be a chance of some primitive cells existing or something. I'm being realistic, you're just hoping beyond hope. ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2004.11.08 16:31:00 - [84] Quote: yes, but that's exactly the point. create a denser atmosphere first, then convert that atmosphere. Convert it? I'm not even going to bother... Quote: there is not a single moon in the solar system that is a seething mass of molten rock. maybe you're thinking of IO, which is a solid moon that just happens to have the most volcanic activity of any body in the solar system. (doesn't mean it's surface is molten rock) It has rivers of molten rock covering it and THE largest and most active volcanoes in the solar system. If that isn't seething, I don't know what is... Quote: earth now is not at it's coolest as it's ever been btw, unless you've forgotten the ice ages I was talking in relative time. The last ice age was what? 100,000 years ago? And Earth has existed for 4 billion... Quote: blah blah blah when it comes to evolving life. Sorry? I thought we were talking about supporting HUMANS here... Quote: i very much doubt you could go on for hours. I could, it just depends how fast you can read... Quote: the fact that these are A: really really deep ***s, and B: don't seem to just refreeze over but instead act just like they would if there was a liquid ocean underneath suggests that indeed, there is a liquid ocean underneath Uh... those could just as easily be formed by slurry or softer dirt deposits, which are also much more likely to exist. Quote: it would help our colonists because it would supply them with a source of water (provided it's a water ocean). Oh good! So ASSUMING that it's a water ocean, they're now all Ok, right? So they don't have to worry about is virtually no gravity, no air, sub-artic temperatures, intense radiation for half year and NO HEAT WHATSOEVER (as in, absolute zero) for the other half. Quote:** oh, and i don't make many absolute statements, i state possibilities, you state impossibilities. impossibilities tend to become possibilities as science progresses. First off, I was talking about the chances of another planet supporting human life without the extensive use of technology. That is what the topic IS about... Secondly, all these planets/moons that COULD support life all require that this and this and this be true, just so that there COULD be a chance of some primitive cells existing or something. I'm being realistic, you're just hoping beyond hope. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Kyt Kraiten	Posted - 2004.11.09 07:30:00 - [85] Originally by: Nero Scuro Convert it? I'm not even going to bother... mock me as you must, but surely genetically engineered plant lifeforms might be able to do it. Quote: It has rivers of molten rock covering it and THE largest and most active volcanoes in the solar system. If that isn't seething, I don't know what is... it DOESN'T have rivers of molten rock covering it. Quote: Uh... those could just as easily be formed by slurry or softer dirt deposits, which are also much more likely to exist. i was under the impression spectrography results indicated the presence of water in the ice. and if it's in the ice, it's likely to be in a liquid form underneath aswell/ Quote: Oh good! So ASSUMING that it's a water ocean, they're now all Ok, right? So they don't have to worry about is virtually no gravity, no air, sub-artic temperatures, intense radiation for half year and NO HEAT WHATSOEVER (as in, absolute zero) for the other half. don't be a muppet. i wasn't suggesting europa was terraformable. Quote: First off, I was talking about the chances of another planet supporting human life without the extensive use of technology. That is what the topic IS about... Secondly, all these planets/moons that COULD support life all require that this and this and this be true, just so that there COULD be a chance of some primitive cells existing or something. I'm being realistic, you're just hoping beyond hope. you're not being realistic, you're being pessimistic. i'm being optimistic, the truth probably lies in between somewhere.
Kyt Kraiten	Posted - 2004.11.09 07:30:00 - [86] Originally by: Nero Scuro Convert it? I'm not even going to bother... mock me as you must, but surely genetically engineered plant lifeforms might be able to do it. Quote: It has rivers of molten rock covering it and THE largest and most active volcanoes in the solar system. If that isn't seething, I don't know what is... it DOESN'T have rivers of molten rock covering it. Quote: Uh... those could just as easily be formed by slurry or softer dirt deposits, which are also much more likely to exist. i was under the impression spectrography results indicated the presence of water in the ice. and if it's in the ice, it's likely to be in a liquid form underneath aswell/ Quote: Oh good! So ASSUMING that it's a water ocean, they're now all Ok, right? So they don't have to worry about is virtually no gravity, no air, sub-artic temperatures, intense radiation for half year and NO HEAT WHATSOEVER (as in, absolute zero) for the other half. don't be a muppet. i wasn't suggesting europa was terraformable. Quote: First off, I was talking about the chances of another planet supporting human life without the extensive use of technology. That is what the topic IS about... Secondly, all these planets/moons that COULD support life all require that this and this and this be true, just so that there COULD be a chance of some primitive cells existing or something. I'm being realistic, you're just hoping beyond hope. you're not being realistic, you're being pessimistic. i'm being optimistic, the truth probably lies in between somewhere.
Kyt Kraiten Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2004.11.09 07:30:00 - [87] Originally by: Nero Scuro Convert it? I'm not even going to bother... mock me as you must, but surely genetically engineered plant lifeforms might be able to do it. Quote: It has rivers of molten rock covering it and THE largest and most active volcanoes in the solar system. If that isn't seething, I don't know what is... it DOESN'T have rivers of molten rock covering it. Quote: Uh... those could just as easily be formed by slurry or softer dirt deposits, which are also much more likely to exist. i was under the impression spectrography results indicated the presence of water in the ice. and if it's in the ice, it's likely to be in a liquid form underneath aswell/ Quote: Oh good! So ASSUMING that it's a water ocean, they're now all Ok, right? So they don't have to worry about is virtually no gravity, no air, sub-artic temperatures, intense radiation for half year and NO HEAT WHATSOEVER (as in, absolute zero) for the other half. don't be a muppet. i wasn't suggesting europa was terraformable. Quote: First off, I was talking about the chances of another planet supporting human life without the extensive use of technology. That is what the topic IS about... Secondly, all these planets/moons that COULD support life all require that this and this and this be true, just so that there COULD be a chance of some primitive cells existing or something. I'm being realistic, you're just hoping beyond hope. you're not being realistic, you're being pessimistic. i'm being optimistic, the truth probably lies in between somewhere.
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2004.11.09 17:13:00 - [88] Quote: but surely genetically engineered plant lifeforms might be able to do it. It's an ELEMENT! Changing it would require taking it apart proton from neutron, and putting it back together again. That is pretty hard, impossible for anything cellular, and would take (even with ADVANCED technology) along time to do on a planetary scale. Quote: it DOESN'T have rivers of molten rock covering it. Yes it does. And before you ask, lava is molten rock. Quote: i was under the impression spectrography results indicated the presence of water in the ice. and if it's in the ice, it's likely to be in a liquid form underneath aswell Nobody knows and can tell for sure at the moment, so lets just leave that at that. Quote: i wasn't suggesting europa was terraformable. Then what the hell were you suggesting? My head hurts, now... Quote: you're being pessimistic. i'm being optimistic, the truth probably lies in between somewhere. So it's a difference of opinion. I can live with that. ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2004.11.09 17:13:00 - [89] Quote: but surely genetically engineered plant lifeforms might be able to do it. It's an ELEMENT! Changing it would require taking it apart proton from neutron, and putting it back together again. That is pretty hard, impossible for anything cellular, and would take (even with ADVANCED technology) along time to do on a planetary scale. Quote: it DOESN'T have rivers of molten rock covering it. Yes it does. And before you ask, lava is molten rock. Quote: i was under the impression spectrography results indicated the presence of water in the ice. and if it's in the ice, it's likely to be in a liquid form underneath aswell Nobody knows and can tell for sure at the moment, so lets just leave that at that. Quote: i wasn't suggesting europa was terraformable. Then what the hell were you suggesting? My head hurts, now... Quote: you're being pessimistic. i'm being optimistic, the truth probably lies in between somewhere. So it's a difference of opinion. I can live with that. ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2004.11.09 17:13:00 - [90] Quote: but surely genetically engineered plant lifeforms might be able to do it. It's an ELEMENT! Changing it would require taking it apart proton from neutron, and putting it back together again. That is pretty hard, impossible for anything cellular, and would take (even with ADVANCED technology) along time to do on a planetary scale. Quote: it DOESN'T have rivers of molten rock covering it. Yes it does. And before you ask, lava is molten rock. Quote: i was under the impression spectrography results indicated the presence of water in the ice. and if it's in the ice, it's likely to be in a liquid form underneath aswell Nobody knows and can tell for sure at the moment, so lets just leave that at that. Quote: i wasn't suggesting europa was terraformable. Then what the hell were you suggesting? My head hurts, now... Quote: you're being pessimistic. i'm being optimistic, the truth probably lies in between somewhere. So it's a difference of opinion. I can live with that. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...

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