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 Kyt Kraiten    |
Posted - 2004.11.16 08:35:00 -
[121] there are various designs to terraform venus that could work, though it would take signifcantly longer than to terraform mars. one method to terraform both planets is with self-replicating systems, http://www.rfreitas.com/Astro/TerraformSRS1983.htm sagan originally proposed to terraform to terraform venus by seeding it's atmosphere with algae, but since his original proposals more information has been discovered on the planet that would make such an effort futile as it could take as much as a million years to have any success. newer proposals to deal with venus' atmosphere include ablating it away with myriad asteroidal impacts, to freezing it out with solar shields. incidentally nero, i did some checking around, and mars most definitely DOES have a magnetic field. http://www.spacedaily.com/mars/features/mgs-sci97a.html ______________________________________ Have we sent the 'don't shoot we're pathetic' transmission yet? |
 Kyt Kraiten |
Posted - 2004.11.16 08:35:00 -
[122] there are various designs to terraform venus that could work, though it would take signifcantly longer than to terraform mars. one method to terraform both planets is with self-replicating systems, http://www.rfreitas.com/Astro/TerraformSRS1983.htm sagan originally proposed to terraform to terraform venus by seeding it's atmosphere with algae, but since his original proposals more information has been discovered on the planet that would make such an effort futile as it could take as much as a million years to have any success. newer proposals to deal with venus' atmosphere include ablating it away with myriad asteroidal impacts, to freezing it out with solar shields. incidentally nero, i did some checking around, and mars most definitely DOES have a magnetic field. http://www.spacedaily.com/mars/features/mgs-sci97a.html ______________________________________ Have we sent the 'don't shoot we're pathetic' transmission yet? |
 Kyt Kraiten Sebiestor tribe |
Posted - 2004.11.16 08:35:00 -
[123] there are various designs to terraform venus that could work, though it would take signifcantly longer than to terraform mars. one method to terraform both planets is with self-replicating systems, http://www.rfreitas.com/Astro/TerraformSRS1983.htm sagan originally proposed to terraform to terraform venus by seeding it's atmosphere with algae, but since his original proposals more information has been discovered on the planet that would make such an effort futile as it could take as much as a million years to have any success. newer proposals to deal with venus' atmosphere include ablating it away with myriad asteroidal impacts, to freezing it out with solar shields. incidentally nero, i did some checking around, and mars most definitely DOES have a magnetic field. http://www.spacedaily.com/mars/features/mgs-sci97a.html ______________________________________ Have we sent the 'don't shoot we're pathetic' transmission yet? |
 Bhurak |
Posted - 2004.11.17 04:04:00 -
[124]
Venus Acceleration due to gravity : 8.83 m/s/s Earth acceleration due to gravity : 9.81 m/s/s 8.83/9.81 = .9 G Gravity difference negligible. Bhurak Random Miner> Did you how steal my ore, lacked prospects or a bright future the thing you wanted me to take the fight airship to hit you |
 Bhurak |
Posted - 2004.11.17 04:04:00 -
[125]
Venus Acceleration due to gravity : 8.83 m/s/s Earth acceleration due to gravity : 9.81 m/s/s 8.83/9.81 = .9 G Gravity difference negligible. Bhurak Random Miner> Did you how steal my ore, lacked prospects or a bright future the thing you wanted me to take the fight airship to hit you |
 Bhurak Amarr Imperial Shipment |
Posted - 2004.11.17 04:04:00 -
[126]
Venus Acceleration due to gravity : 8.83 m/s/s Earth acceleration due to gravity : 9.81 m/s/s 8.83/9.81 = .9 G Gravity difference negligible. Bhurak Random Miner> Did you how steal my ore, lacked prospects or a bright future the thing you wanted me to take the fight airship to hit you |
Jagaroth |
Posted - 2004.11.17 14:13:00 -
[127] My bad - I meant magnetic field. According to Wikipedia it's slow rotation is unlikely to be sufficient to drive an internal dynamo (despite it having similar core properties to Earth). So it's unshielded, making it a bit difficult to live on however much you change the atmosphere. It's also inordinately difficult to get to - I didn't really follow the physics, but I picked off this rather cool analogy: "One can imagine driving along a road next to a high, steep cliff with another road at the bottom; the journey from Earth to Venus is rather like swerving off the cliff, freefalling for some time, and then trying to land safely and merge with traffic on the lower road." ...So it would be rather hard to send large quantities of equipment that way without a major revolution in interstellar propulsion. ------ |
Jagaroth |
Posted - 2004.11.17 14:13:00 -
[128] My bad - I meant magnetic field. According to Wikipedia it's slow rotation is unlikely to be sufficient to drive an internal dynamo (despite it having similar core properties to Earth). So it's unshielded, making it a bit difficult to live on however much you change the atmosphere. It's also inordinately difficult to get to - I didn't really follow the physics, but I picked off this rather cool analogy: "One can imagine driving along a road next to a high, steep cliff with another road at the bottom; the journey from Earth to Venus is rather like swerving off the cliff, freefalling for some time, and then trying to land safely and merge with traffic on the lower road." ...So it would be rather hard to send large quantities of equipment that way without a major revolution in interstellar propulsion. ------ |
 Jagaroth No Quarter. C0VEN |
Posted - 2004.11.17 14:13:00 -
[129] My bad - I meant magnetic field. According to Wikipedia it's slow rotation is unlikely to be sufficient to drive an internal dynamo (despite it having similar core properties to Earth). So it's unshielded, making it a bit difficult to live on however much you change the atmosphere. It's also inordinately difficult to get to - I didn't really follow the physics, but I picked off this rather cool analogy: "One can imagine driving along a road next to a high, steep cliff with another road at the bottom; the journey from Earth to Venus is rather like swerving off the cliff, freefalling for some time, and then trying to land safely and merge with traffic on the lower road." ...So it would be rather hard to send large quantities of equipment that way without a major revolution in interstellar propulsion. ------ |
Nero Scuro |
Posted - 2004.11.18 13:51:00 -
[130] Edited by: Nero Scuro on 19/11/2004 11:20:36 Kyt, Mar's magnetic field still isn't strong enough to stop you getting quite a few more rads than is healthy... It isn't even strong enough to power a (normal) compass. That's like saying the moon has an aptmosphere - true, but it's so small as to be neglible, the same as Mar's magnetic field... And those terraforming techniques are HEAVILY theoretical. True, they could become reality in the (far) future, but you could have said that 'some future stuff will make all your arguments not true!' from the get-go. I mean, you could argue that the people in EVE are genetically altered to breathe other 'airs' or survive harsh gravity and pressure, but that is hardly a solid argument, now is it? ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun! |
 Nero Scuro |
Posted - 2004.11.18 13:51:00 -
[131] Edited by: Nero Scuro on 19/11/2004 11:20:36 Kyt, Mar's magnetic field still isn't strong enough to stop you getting quite a few more rads than is healthy... It isn't even strong enough to power a (normal) compass. That's like saying the moon has an aptmosphere - true, but it's so small as to be neglible, the same as Mar's magnetic field... And those terraforming techniques are HEAVILY theoretical. True, they could become reality in the (far) future, but you could have said that 'some future stuff will make all your arguments not true!' from the get-go. I mean, you could argue that the people in EVE are genetically altered to breathe other 'airs' or survive harsh gravity and pressure, but that is hardly a solid argument, now is it? ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun! |
 Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A |
Posted - 2004.11.18 13:51:00 -
[132] Edited by: Nero Scuro on 19/11/2004 11:20:36 Kyt, Mar's magnetic field still isn't strong enough to stop you getting quite a few more rads than is healthy... It isn't even strong enough to power a (normal) compass. That's like saying the moon has an aptmosphere - true, but it's so small as to be neglible, the same as Mar's magnetic field... And those terraforming techniques are HEAVILY theoretical. True, they could become reality in the (far) future, but you could have said that 'some future stuff will make all your arguments not true!' from the get-go. I mean, you could argue that the people in EVE are genetically altered to breathe other 'airs' or survive harsh gravity and pressure, but that is hardly a solid argument, now is it? The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Bhurak |
Posted - 2004.11.18 23:39:00 -
[133] The reason ther is no magnetic field as far as i can determine is that out planet (surprise surprise) has quite a few unlikely things happen. 1)struck by a mars sized chukc at just the right angle to throw a portion into orbit. 2) this portion formed a large moon 3) this moon helps keep the mantle molten, helping out the internal dynamo really, this planet is quite a marvel Random Miner> Did you how steal my ore, lacked prospects or a bright future the thing you wanted me to take the fight airship to hit you |
 Bhurak |
Posted - 2004.11.18 23:39:00 -
[134] The reason ther is no magnetic field as far as i can determine is that out planet (surprise surprise) has quite a few unlikely things happen. 1)struck by a mars sized chukc at just the right angle to throw a portion into orbit. 2) this portion formed a large moon 3) this moon helps keep the mantle molten, helping out the internal dynamo really, this planet is quite a marvel Random Miner> Did you how steal my ore, lacked prospects or a bright future the thing you wanted me to take the fight airship to hit you |
Bhurak Amarr Imperial Shipment |
Posted - 2004.11.18 23:39:00 -
[135] The reason ther is no magnetic field as far as i can determine is that out planet (surprise surprise) has quite a few unlikely things happen. 1)struck by a mars sized chukc at just the right angle to throw a portion into orbit. 2) this portion formed a large moon 3) this moon helps keep the mantle molten, helping out the internal dynamo really, this planet is quite a marvel Random Miner> Did you how steal my ore, lacked prospects or a bright future the thing you wanted me to take the fight airship to hit you |
 Nero Scuro |
Posted - 2004.11.19 11:21:00 -
[136]
Exactly. You won't find another planet with all the (unlikely) phenomena of Earth, and therefore you aren't likely to find another planet that could support Terrestrial life (beyond the oh-so resourceful but truthfully quite crappy bacteria). ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun! |
Nero Scuro |
Posted - 2004.11.19 11:21:00 -
[137]
Exactly. You won't find another planet with all the (unlikely) phenomena of Earth, and therefore you aren't likely to find another planet that could support Terrestrial life (beyond the oh-so resourceful but truthfully quite crappy bacteria). ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun! |
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A |
Posted - 2004.11.19 11:21:00 -
[138]
Exactly. You won't find another planet with all the (unlikely) phenomena of Earth, and therefore you aren't likely to find another planet that could support Terrestrial life (beyond the oh-so resourceful but truthfully quite crappy bacteria). The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
 Justin Cody |
Posted - 2004.12.23 19:03:00 -
[139] This thread has gotten seriously off topic...where's the moderator? |
 Justin Cody |
Posted - 2004.12.23 19:03:00 -
[140] This thread has gotten seriously off topic...where's the moderator? |
 Justin Cody Caldari The Priory Shroud Of Darkness |
Posted - 2004.12.23 19:03:00 -
[141] This thread has gotten seriously off topic...where's the moderator? Remind people that profit is the difference between revenue and expense. This makes you look smart. Scott Adams |
Justin Cody |
Posted - 2004.12.23 19:09:00 -
[142] Edited by: Justin Cody on 23/12/2004 19:09:22 and just to clarify things, yes the odds of finding a planet or two that resemble earth in all of its exact specifications are unlikely, but not improbable or impossible. And for the sake of argument here lets not inject too much reality in to this game. I mean we are pilots jacked matrix style in to pods where we float in nutriet baths and have clones aged to perfection stored in vats across the galaxy where even our knowlege, and talents are preserved. As to social evolution...well its sci-fi and the whole premise is a post-apocalyptic recovery (Second Genesis) now thats over and we are expanding (Exodus). The recent tech explosion was only really possible thanks to jove intervention. If we want more detail I suggest we spam CCP with requests for official cannon in serious volume, or at least get a group of dedicated players together and with permission from CCP start making some. |
 Justin Cody |
Posted - 2004.12.23 19:09:00 -
[143] Edited by: Justin Cody on 23/12/2004 19:09:22 and just to clarify things, yes the odds of finding a planet or two that resemble earth in all of its exact specifications are unlikely, but not improbable or impossible. And for the sake of argument here lets not inject too much reality in to this game. I mean we are pilots jacked matrix style in to pods where we float in nutriet baths and have clones aged to perfection stored in vats across the galaxy where even our knowlege, and talents are preserved. As to social evolution...well its sci-fi and the whole premise is a post-apocalyptic recovery (Second Genesis) now thats over and we are expanding (Exodus). The recent tech explosion was only really possible thanks to jove intervention. If we want more detail I suggest we spam CCP with requests for official cannon in serious volume, or at least get a group of dedicated players together and with permission from CCP start making some. |
Justin Cody Caldari The Priory Shroud Of Darkness |
Posted - 2004.12.23 19:09:00 -
[144] Edited by: Justin Cody on 23/12/2004 19:09:22 and just to clarify things, yes the odds of finding a planet or two that resemble earth in all of its exact specifications are unlikely, but not improbable or impossible. And for the sake of argument here lets not inject too much reality in to this game. I mean we are pilots jacked matrix style in to pods where we float in nutriet baths and have clones aged to perfection stored in vats across the galaxy where even our knowlege, and talents are preserved. As to social evolution...well its sci-fi and the whole premise is a post-apocalyptic recovery (Second Genesis) now thats over and we are expanding (Exodus). The recent tech explosion was only really possible thanks to jove intervention. If we want more detail I suggest we spam CCP with requests for official cannon in serious volume, or at least get a group of dedicated players together and with permission from CCP start making some. Remind people that profit is the difference between revenue and expense. This makes you look smart. Scott Adams |
 Jagaroth |
Posted - 2004.12.30 21:30:00 -
[145] I'd go for that - it would have to be centrally moderated, but I think there are some little touches that the game would benefit from. The one thing I have in mind particularly is the description box for certain planets. Now I can understand that an average icy moon in the back end of beyond should be described as "Moon (Ice)", but when I fly up to New Caldari Prime and see "Planet (Solid)" I get a bit peeved. I can see the cities on the surface!!! So there's a story there and I think the description box for (some of) the planets could be filled in by players. There's a massive number of them, but it would make the game that much more interesting. It would also give CCP an opportunity to add some little clues here and there about "the unlikely collapse of civilisation in EvE". (  back on topic!)------ |
Jagaroth |
Posted - 2004.12.30 21:30:00 -
[146] I'd go for that - it would have to be centrally moderated, but I think there are some little touches that the game would benefit from. The one thing I have in mind particularly is the description box for certain planets. Now I can understand that an average icy moon in the back end of beyond should be described as "Moon (Ice)", but when I fly up to New Caldari Prime and see "Planet (Solid)" I get a bit peeved. I can see the cities on the surface!!! So there's a story there and I think the description box for (some of) the planets could be filled in by players. There's a massive number of them, but it would make the game that much more interesting. It would also give CCP an opportunity to add some little clues here and there about "the unlikely collapse of civilisation in EvE". ( back on topic!)------ |
Jagaroth No Quarter. C0VEN |
Posted - 2004.12.30 21:30:00 -
[147] I'd go for that - it would have to be centrally moderated, but I think there are some little touches that the game would benefit from. The one thing I have in mind particularly is the description box for certain planets. Now I can understand that an average icy moon in the back end of beyond should be described as "Moon (Ice)", but when I fly up to New Caldari Prime and see "Planet (Solid)" I get a bit peeved. I can see the cities on the surface!!! So there's a story there and I think the description box for (some of) the planets could be filled in by players. There's a massive number of them, but it would make the game that much more interesting. It would also give CCP an opportunity to add some little clues here and there about "the unlikely collapse of civilisation in EvE". ( back on topic!)------ |
Erai |
Posted - 2004.12.31 14:48:00 -
[148]
Second that! And to get off topic just a little more again, in the Traveller PnP RPG almost every planet in a galaxy as big as Eve's has at least some kind of specification. Small example here. Without going into what the specs mean exactly, there's a little info about planet mass, population, development, atmosphere, legality and other fluff. I wondered from the start why something like this was not in Eve from the start- semi-random values for every moon or planet, should take no more then 20k of code, I should think (as a non-programmer) But as for the unlikelyness of the collapse of civilisation, yeah, I can see the point- a part of a galaxy with so many planets able to support human life without having been terraformed for a couple of centuries... well, it could happen, but it would be one amazing stroke of luck for us! (I mean, Gallente, Amarr, Udorians, Intaki, Mannar, Caldari, Minmatar, all initially living on Earth-ish planets within what appears to be a few parsecs from each other, then I can see why the Amarr and sisters of Eve are so religious  But I think that backgroundstories for games/ settings like Eve should be built up from a very basic clichÚ- keeps it easy and recognisable for a large group of people. And the story that is being built on Eve's basic foundation is pretty amazingly rich and enjoyable- so I am not complaining ------------------------------------------ My bio |
Erai |
Posted - 2004.12.31 14:48:00 -
[149]
Second that! And to get off topic just a little more again, in the Traveller PnP RPG almost every planet in a galaxy as big as Eve's has at least some kind of specification. Small example here. Without going into what the specs mean exactly, there's a little info about planet mass, population, development, atmosphere, legality and other fluff. I wondered from the start why something like this was not in Eve from the start- semi-random values for every moon or planet, should take no more then 20k of code, I should think (as a non-programmer) But as for the unlikelyness of the collapse of civilisation, yeah, I can see the point- a part of a galaxy with so many planets able to support human life without having been terraformed for a couple of centuries... well, it could happen, but it would be one amazing stroke of luck for us! (I mean, Gallente, Amarr, Udorians, Intaki, Mannar, Caldari, Minmatar, all initially living on Earth-ish planets within what appears to be a few parsecs from each other, then I can see why the Amarr and sisters of Eve are so religious But I think that backgroundstories for games/ settings like Eve should be built up from a very basic clichÚ- keeps it easy and recognisable for a large group of people. And the story that is being built on Eve's basic foundation is pretty amazingly rich and enjoyable- so I am not complaining ------------------------------------------ My bio |
 Erai Minmatar |
Posted - 2004.12.31 14:48:00 -
[150]
Second that! And to get off topic just a little more again, in the Traveller PnP RPG almost every planet in a galaxy as big as Eve's has at least some kind of specification. Small example here. Without going into what the specs mean exactly, there's a little info about planet mass, population, development, atmosphere, legality and other fluff. I wondered from the start why something like this was not in Eve from the start- semi-random values for every moon or planet, should take no more then 20k of code, I should think (as a non-programmer) But as for the unlikelyness of the collapse of civilisation, yeah, I can see the point- a part of a galaxy with so many planets able to support human life without having been terraformed for a couple of centuries... well, it could happen, but it would be one amazing stroke of luck for us! (I mean, Gallente, Amarr, Udorians, Intaki, Mannar, Caldari, Minmatar, all initially living on Earth-ish planets within what appears to be a few parsecs from each other, then I can see why the Amarr and sisters of Eve are so religious But I think that backgroundstories for games/ settings like Eve should be built up from a very basic clichT- keeps it easy and recognisable for a large group of people. And the story that is being built on Eve's basic foundation is pretty amazingly rich and enjoyable- so I am not complaining ------------------------------------------ My bio |
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