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Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:19:00 - [1] Edited by: Nerogk Shorn on 25/03/2009 19:20:38 I have recently had a problem with the armor of my typhoon. This typhoon was fit with 2 1600mm tungsten plates and 3 trimark rigs as well as an EANM II and DCU II. I got it in a trade with a corp mate who assured me after i lost it that it was not damaged. It never once appeared damaged while I was undocked and flying it around, meaning it showed absolutely full armor. While going out with a fleet, we engaged a larger fleet and eventually i was called primary. My shield disappeared rather quickly, but my armor on the other hand almost vanished instantly. I went down in seemingly 15-20 seconds, which i thought was strange as i should have had about 29000 armor. I looked on my lossmail, and would you look at that. I only took 15000 or so damage. This makes absolutely no sense as an unfitted typhoon with my skills has more hit points than that. The speed at which i went down made more sense. I petitioned it under reimbursements. I was going to die anyway, and i wasn't really looking to get my ship back, but i wanted some sort of explanation. Of course i got none, but the "our logs show nothing out of the ordinary" generic comment. At least they said "sorry" this time. Does anyone know what happened? Here is the killmail on my killboard. And here is the hard copy from my loss. 2009.03.24 20:54:00 Victim: Nerogk Shorn Corp: Royal Hiigaran Navy Alliance: SCUM. Faction: NONE Destroyed: Typhoon System: Heydieles Security: 0.3 Damage Taken: 15276 Involved parties: Name: Mallegant VanSaar Security: -9.6 Corp: Invicta. Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Megathron Navy Issue Weapon: Ogre II Damage Done: 2598 Name: Ulic Vos Security: -9.7 Corp: Invicta. Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Megathron Weapon: Megathron Damage Done: 2087 Name: Deja Thoris Security: -9.1 Corp: Invicta. Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Typhoon Weapon: Ogre II Damage Done: 2017 Name: El**** Ethenwe Security: -9.5 Corp: Invicta. Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Megathron Navy Issue Weapon: Megathron Navy Issue Damage Done: 1705 Name: Aftenbar Security: -9.9 Corp: Invicta. Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Megathron Weapon: Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Damage Done: 1634 Name: BuckWyld (laid the final blow) Security: -8.5 Corp: The Athiest Syndicate Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Megathron Navy Issue Weapon: Ion Blaster Cannon II Damage Done: 1559 Name: M4N14c Security: -4.0 Corp: The Athiest Syndicate Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Hyperion Weapon: Hyperion Damage Done: 1137 Name: Sylem Security: -0.6 Corp: The Athiest Syndicate Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Armageddon Weapon: Ogre II Damage Done: 879 Name: Raiven Parker Security: -1.8 Corp: The Athiest Syndicate Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Raven Weapon: Inferno Javelin Torpedo Damage Done: 878 Name: Major Lagg Security: -9.4 Corp: Invicta. Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Tempest Fleet Issue Weapon: Tempest Fleet Issue Damage Done: 389 Name: Skar Rynn Security: -9.9 Corp: Invicta. Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Armageddon Weapon: 500W Infectious Power System Malfunction Damage Done: 213 Name: Thor75 Security: -9.3 Corp: Back to Yarrr Alliance: SCUM. Faction: NONE Ship: Dominix Weapon: Dominix Damage Done: 180 Name: Megasaxon Security: -8.6 Corp: Invicta. Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Raven Weapon: Ogre II Damage Done: 0 Name: Cerebella Security: -2.2 Corp: Center for Advanced Studies Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Apocalypse Weapon: Dual Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I Damage Done: 0 Name: Ipsimus Security: -10.0 Corp: Invicta. Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Megathron Weapon: Warp Disruptor II Damage Done: 0 Name: FALLEN XCALIBER Secu
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:23:00 - [2] Apparently i filled the topic too much and it posted a 1 instead of my complete text. Edited it and now here is the rest of the killmail. Name: FALLEN XCALIBER Security: -0.8 Corp: Noir. Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Curse Weapon: Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I Damage Done: 0 Name: Megasaxon Security: -8.6 Corp: Invicta. Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Raven Weapon: Ogre II Damage Done: 0 Name: Ipsimus Security: -10.0 Corp: Invicta. Alliance: Advocated Destruction Faction: NONE Ship: Megathron Weapon: Warp Disruptor II Damage Done: 0 Name: Cerebella Security: -2.2 Corp: Center for Advanced Studies Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Apocalypse Weapon: Dual Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I Damage Done: 0 Destroyed items: Nanite Repair Paste, Qty: 292 (Cargo) Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Qty: 2 Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo, Qty: 600 (Cargo) Republic Fleet EMP L, Qty: 91 Medium Capacitor Booster II Trimark Armor Pump I, Qty: 3 Siege Missile Launcher II, Qty: 4 Ballistic Control System II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Cap Booster 800 Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Hammerhead II, Qty: 3 (Drone Bay) Dropped items: Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II Gyrostabilizer II Republic Fleet EMP L, Qty: 46 Cap Booster 800, Qty: 9 (Cargo) 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I, Qty: 2 Ballistic Control System II Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets F85 Peripheral Damage System I Hammerhead II, Qty: 2 (Drone Bay) Republic Fleet EMP L, Qty: 1226 (Cargo) Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo, Qty: 643 (Cargo) The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
Ginako Southern Cross Empire	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:23:00 - [3] brb still scrolling...
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:25:00 - [4] Originally by: Ginako brb still scrolling... Yeah i know i got ganked by a lot of ships, but i still figured it may be necessary to post the whole mail... The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:25:00 - [5] ask for the petition to escalated to a higher gm and for an explanation as to it possibly being a bug that may effect other players in the future.
Tandori Tanaka Tanaka Stuff and Supplies	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:29:00 - [6] I bet the plates went offline when someone else piloted the ship instead of the original owner. You probably have passive modules hidden so you didnt noticed it ?
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:29:00 - [7] Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII ask for the petition to escalated to a higher gm and for an explanation as to it possibly being a bug that may effect other players in the future. Do you think i should refile it under something else? Or continue with the reimbursement petition? The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:30:00 - [8] Edited by: Nerogk Shorn on 25/03/2009 19:31:10 Originally by: Tandori Tanaka I bet the plates went offline when someone else piloted the ship instead of the original owner. You probably have passive modules hidden so you didnt noticed it ? Nah, i got the ship unfitted with exception for the stuff in the cargo, the rigs, and the drone bay. I still should have taken more damage even if both the plates were offline, though you are right in that i had passive modules hidden. Edit: Meaning i fitted the sucker myself. The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Nerogk Shorn Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII ask for the petition to escalated to a higher gm and for an explanation as to it possibly being a bug that may effect other players in the future. Do you think i should refile it under something else? Or continue with the reimbursement petition? If your not bothered about getting it reimbursed try another category, you'd be doing the game a service by discovering another bug.
Agent Known	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:42:00 - [10] EFT shows 87k effective HP (mind this is all skills at V). Even unskilled it has 21k....

Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Agent Known EFT shows 87k effective HP (mind this is all skills at V). Even unskilled it has 21k.... Yeah but effective HP is different, it means how much pure damage you need to take. In actuality you take less real damage cause of your resistances which are factored into your Effective HP. However, if you add up the shields, the armor and hull hit points, it should come out to around 40,000 with gang skills. The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
Agent Known	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:53:00 - [12] Originally by: Nerogk Shorn Originally by: Agent Known EFT shows 87k effective HP (mind this is all skills at V). Even unskilled it has 21k.... Yeah but effective HP is different, it means how much pure damage you need to take. In actuality you take less real damage cause of your resistances which are factored into your Effective HP. However, if you add up the shields, the armor and hull hit points, it should come out to around 40,000 with gang skills. Excuse me, I didn't say...type that clearly. I meant 21k armor unskilled. My bad
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.03.25 19:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII ask for the petition to escalated to a higher gm and for an explanation as to it possibly being a bug that may effect other players in the future. Well I've done this now, so i will wait until i get a response. Has anyone else had a problem like this? I have recently seen some other suspect losses on our boards where ships have taken way less damage than they should have. I don't, however, know the stories behind those losses, so they could be normal issues with pre-damaged ships or jumping after taking damage only to be caught on the other side. The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.25 20:01:00 - [14] Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 25/03/2009 20:02:23 Could there be an error of some kind in the damage_taken information on ship kills. I lost 5 identically fit ships below and the damage reported is different on each one. Could some specific type of damage be being excluded from the total? I noticed if you add up the individual reported damages it doesn't always equal the total damage listed. Perhaps this is just a latency, lag, packet-loss, or otherwise intarweb related issue? EFT shows I should have 19,771 EHP with this setup. 1 - 12401 dmg received 2 - 9587 dmg received 3 - 9594 dmg received 4 - 12675 dmg received 5 - 7321 dmg received
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.25 20:07:00 - [15] Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 25/03/2009 20:08:39 Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 25/03/2009 20:07:53 Couple of concord kills that i could not post to battle clinic, bu they also show weird damage taken discrepancies. I was flying the exact same fit as above. Quote: 2009.03.25 17:19:00 Victim: Ris Dnalor Corp: Sebiestor tribe Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Destroyed: Vexor System: Amarr Security: 1.0 Damage Taken: 2743 Involved parties: Name: Sarum Surveillance General Major / Sarum Family (laid the final blow) Damage Done: 2743 Name: CONCORD Police Captain / CONCORD Damage Done: 0 Destroyed items: Hobgoblin I, Qty: 3 (Drone Bay) Damage Control I Small Energy Neutralizer I Insulated Stabilizer Array I Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M, Qty: 196 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Ogre I, Qty: 3 (Drone Bay) Large Shield Extender I Heavy Electron Blaster I, Qty: 3 Dropped items: 800mm Reinforced Steel Plates I Insulated Stabilizer Array I Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M, Qty: 196 Warp Disruptor I Heavy Electron Blaster I Quote: 2009.03.22 23:52:00 Victim: Ris Dnalor Corp: Sebiestor tribe Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Destroyed: Vexor System: Amarr Security: 1.0 Damage Taken: 9151 Involved parties: Name: Sarum Surveillance Officer / Sarum Family (laid the final blow) Damage Done: 6478 Name: Amarr Sentry Gun / Amarr Navy Damage Done: 1988 Name: CONCORD Police Captain / CONCORD Damage Done: 685 Destroyed items: Damage Control I 800mm Reinforced Steel Plates I Insulated Stabilizer Array I Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M, Qty: 100 Ogre I, Qty: 3 (Drone Bay) Large Shield Extender I Heavy Electron Blaster I, Qty: 2 Dropped items: Small Energy Neutralizer I Insulated Stabilizer Array I Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M, Qty: 100 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor I Heavy Electron Blaster I, Qty: 2
konjev Minmatar Ray of Matar Assembly	Posted - 2009.03.25 20:50:00 - [16] clearly a fake, SCUM. doesn't undock
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.03.25 21:35:00 - [17] Edited by: Nerogk Shorn on 25/03/2009 21:41:52 Originally by: Ris Dnalor Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 25/03/2009 20:11:11 Could there be an error of some kind in the damage_taken information on ship kills. I lost 5 identically fit ships below and the damage reported is different on each one. Could some specific type of damage be being excluded from the total? I noticed if you add up the individual reported damages it doesn't always equal the total damage listed. Perhaps this is just a latency, lag, packet-loss, or otherwise intarweb related issue? EFT shows I should have 19,771 EHP with this setup. (edit: I know EFT != EVE, however it gives a point of reference, regardless) 1 - 12401 dmg received 2 - 9587 dmg received 3 - 9594 dmg received 4 - 12675 dmg received 5 - 7321 dmg received That is pretty interesting. First of all, the small changes could be differences in shield recharge amounts as you were dying. The bigger changes (between 9600 and 12400) could potentially be gang skills. The last one, however, is really messed up. It says that the lone attacker did 5721 damage, yet you took 7321 damage... Also Effective hit points are differen than real hitpoints. Read one of my previous posts, where i try to explain it. Edit: I also want to mention that my ship seemed to go down faster than it should, so I personally don't think it is simply an error in the recording of the killmails. The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.03.25 21:39:00 - [18] Originally by: konjev clearly a fake, SCUM. doesn't undock Honestly i wasn't sure how to deal with this. I thought about just asking a Board Moderator to delete it for trolling, however, i tried to understand why you trolled in the first place. Do you want to see a rise out of me? Do you want me to try to defend my alliance as a whole, as you certainly generalized us through some probably rare occasions. I will simply say that i don't recall ever fighting Ray of Matar, or even seeing them. I have heard, on the other hand, that Ray of Matar hot-drop at every chance they get. As to my mail being a fake, it certainly isn't, and i'm not exactly trying to profit off it or turn it into some sort of advantageous opportunity. The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
Zebler Space Chimps	Posted - 2009.03.25 21:43:00 - [19] I am guessing that what is happening is more likely a logging issue of who did what and when, rather than you actually not need to take as much damage as necessary for you to be killed. Remember that armour repair modules cycle quite slowly. If one cycled at the right time(s) it may have given you more armour just when you needed it. Making it harder for them to kill you, and you therefore took more damage. This will be an interesting one to follow as you are not the only person to notice that dmg done on killmails is not always what it should be.

CCP Tuxford	Posted - 2009.03.25 22:07:00 - [20] Edited by: CCP Tuxford on 25/03/2009 22:06:59 First time I hear of anything like this. What might have happened is that it's simply targeting. For the first shots maybe half had you targeted but by the time your shield was getting depleted everybody had you locked and let rip. As for damage messages not adding up to the sum of the damage needed then I'm pretty sure that the client gets all the damage messages but it is definitely not displaying all of them as they'd just become a blur of messages and even more useless than they are right now (and I think they are pretty useless). I'm not sure how the log handles it tbh. And finally when it comes to logging. We could theoretically log everything you do in the game. The thing is logging isn't free so we have to choose very carefully what we want to log and what we can skip. Of course when it comes to your petition then it's never the stuff you're interested in that is being logged In conclusion: I really doubt there was anything out of the ordinary happening there except maybe damage messages not being fully logged but I will certainly keep my ears open for other reports of what appears to be erratic behaviour. Personally I think we should handle damage messages a bit differently but that's an entirely different story. Best regards tuxford ps. you got ganked dude _______________


The Riddik	Posted - 2009.03.25 22:07:00 - [21] lol nice one. 29k armor is eaten thru fast if the guys shooting at you have things like correctly fitted ships, damage mods, and level 5 skills, you nublet.
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.03.25 22:12:00 - [22] Originally by: The Riddik lol nice one. 29k armor is eaten thru fast if the guys shooting at you have things like correctly fitted ships, damage mods, and level 5 skills, you nublet. He didn't take issue with how fast it got chewed up but with the fact that the KM showed less than should have been necessary to destroy him. Corp killboard-How to Kill Logoffskis
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.03.25 22:27:00 - [23] Not sure when it started but all killmails i recieved during the last 2 weeks or so had suspiciously low hp. i think there is some bug in the km system or smthg. many friends have noticed the same. i think there was also another thread about it but i cba to find it. -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
Jack Dant Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre	Posted - 2009.03.25 22:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Myra2007 Not sure when it started but all killmails i recieved during the last 2 weeks or so had suspiciously low hp. i think there is some bug in the km system or smthg. many friends have noticed the same. i think there was also another thread about it but i cba to find it. Yes, I posted a thread about how pod killmails since apocrypha had unusually low damage. Where a normal pod has around 300-400 hp, I've been seeing KMs with under 100 reported damage. There is also this post, about a fully fitted Kronos taking under 3k damage (killmail is on battleclinic if you want to check).
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.25 22:35:00 - [25] I thought by now everyone knew, killmails are bugged since apocrypha. I have been on plenty for 0 damage while my logs tell me i did do damage. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.03.25 22:44:00 - [26] Did you jump through a gate or dock and undock or anything like that? Because a session change will wipe out all damage done. IE if you jump through a gate with 10% hull left and you get killed, it will show as you only received that 10% hull damage. I've noticed that kms have started to spew out really low damage done numbers, maybe they aren't counting drone damage or something. You should look in your game logs (my docs -> eve-> gamelogs) and manually count the total damage was done to you. Oh yeah and it isn't an armor bug, you were within range of 10 BS (and a bunch of them are faction BS) and if they all primary correctly and have short range ammo and T2 skills, you are gonna die in 30 seconds. Not an armor bug at all, but a km damage calculation bug yeah maybe. Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
Soi Mala	Posted - 2009.03.25 22:47:00 - [27] I have seen instances of this... battleships taking 9000damage total etc... i figured it was merely a cosmetic thing, the killmails being malformed or something, rather than seeing any real decrease in HP... I'l keep my eyes peeled for any future instances and try to bugreport it.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.03.25 22:48:00 - [28] Originally by: CCP Tuxford Personally I think we should handle damage messages a bit differently but that's an entirely different story. I'd love it you could simply turn off the on screen messages but still have the log show them. Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman
Major Deviant	Posted - 2009.03.25 23:38:00 - [29] Edited by: Major Deviant on 25/03/2009 23:42:59 Killmails are broken atm. I had a 1v1 which I won surviving with 25% structure left, then I docked, repaired, undocked and got into a new 1v1 which I lost. In my loss killmail, my first victim shows up as doing damage to me in the second engagement where he was not even in the system, let alone that my ship was fully repaired.
D'ceet State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.03.25 23:55:00 - [30] tuxford made this thread 10 times better with the "PS, you got ganked dude!" Originally by: Popperr I resent the insinuation that we have intelligence, artificial or otherwise.

Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.03.25 23:58:00 - [31] did you jump thru a gate already damaged? I suspect damage counters reset on gate jumps
SSgt Sniper Gallente legion of qui Southern Connection	Posted - 2009.03.26 00:03:00 - [32] Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 26/03/2009 00:03:28 Originally by: CCP Tuxford Edited by: CCP Tuxford on 25/03/2009 22:06:59 First time I hear of anything like this. What might have happened is that it's simply targeting. For the first shots maybe half had you targeted but by the time your shield was getting depleted everybody had you locked and let rip. As for damage messages not adding up to the sum of the damage needed then I'm pretty sure that the client gets all the damage messages but it is definitely not displaying all of them as they'd just become a blur of messages and even more useless than they are right now (and I think they are pretty useless). I'm not sure how the log handles it tbh. And finally when it comes to logging. We could theoretically log everything you do in the game. The thing is logging isn't free so we have to choose very carefully what we want to log and what we can skip. Of course when it comes to your petition then it's never the stuff you're interested in that is being logged In conclusion: I really doubt there was anything out of the ordinary happening there except maybe damage messages not being fully logged but I will certainly keep my ears open for other reports of what appears to be erratic behaviour. Personally I think we should handle damage messages a bit differently but that's an entirely different story. Best regards tuxford ps. you got ganked dude This is a hugely common problem atm Tux. I mean hugely. When you have some free time to kill, peruse a few killboards and check specifically damage numbers post current patch. What you will see is that sometimes the mails make sense, but sometimes they utterly don't. I remember seeing a rohk that was killed on the GBC killboard about a week ago that showed about 2500 total damage taken. A battleship that died for 2500 damage. Wat? Anyhow like I said check a few killboards looking at each damage taken number. Don't just take our word for it investigate it. Lord knows we all record plenty of evidence for you guys in this regard :P ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.03.26 00:14:00 - [33] First of all I entered the engagement with full shields, armor, and hull without jumping or docking or anything like that. Secondly, it is possible that they really did gank me as fast as they did with me having 29k armor. I'm not sure, time warps a bit in battle I suppose. I just want to make absolutely sure that this is a bug with simply recording the numbers, and not actually the amount of damage taken. I'm glad that I'm not the only one seeing this problem. If it is that prominent, then it probably isn't an HP bug, and more of a log problem. In that case, Tuxford doesn't do it justice with the speed I went down. I hope it gets fixed soon though to ease my mind. I know damage dealt on killmails isn't that old of a feature, but I have grown to like it. The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.03.26 00:16:00 - [34] I've seen some weird things like these happen too, one of my guys undocks in a BC (or BS) in a station camped by hostiles. He has a black screen and when he sees himself in space, he notices he's already being targeted (probably lag on client-side), before he has a chance to dock he is popped, and on his killmail it said he got like 212 damage in total, and there was nothing on his clientside logs. I believe he has petitioned it. It's pretty weird though, something similar happened today when we jumped a carrier, the carrier pilot jumped to the cyno - got a black screen (the cyno guy saw him 60km away from the cyno itself though), he logs out (because he can't see anything but darkness). The weird thing is he still is shown in corp-chat (as if he was logged in) even though he's logged out. And when he logs back he comes out of emergency warp AT the station and can dock. Some really weird glitches. I would keep an eye open, I've seen some more killmails recently with HAC:s taking very little damage (and dying), but dismissed it as eg. said HAC dying after jumping through a gate and killmail b0rk.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.26 01:21:00 - [35] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 26/03/2009 01:23:26 Originally by: CCP Tuxford First time I hear of anything like this. Read this thread (BTW recovered it in EVE files as EVE search say that there aren't threads with the word crow in it ): strange damage taken issue? Originally by: Nkurakarin Quick summary: corpmate is scouting for us and dies horrible burning back to a gate. We laughed at him cause hes in a crow but he said he instaploded. So we looked at the mail and Total Damage Taken: 171 How is this possible? We start going through some other mails of his where he is flying a crow: Engages a taranis: Total Damage Taken: 1,245 (Now this looks normal) Burning back to a gate again: Total Damage Taken: 118 (wtf?) Bad vagabond encounter: Total Damage Taken: 1,158 (righto) Trying to tackle a myrm: Total Damage Taken: 509 (?) So i look up interceptor kills on a popular killboard that specializes in gate camping: 3/18 Ares: Damage Taken: 299 3/17 Claw: Damage Taken: 294 3/17 Crow: Damage Taken: 214 3/16 Taran: Damage Taken: 299 3/15 Crow: Damage Taken: 297 3/15 Crusader: Damage Taken: 299 3/14 Crow:Damage Taken: 1,096 3/14 Raptor:Damage Taken: 300 Is there a bug in the Killmail itself? or is something seriously wrong here?
Suboran Gallente Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.03.26 02:00:00 - [36] we instapopped a vagabond the other day that was undocking, killmail shows it took 1k damage and it had 2 large shield extenders fitted
RedClaws Amarr Dragon's Rage Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.03.26 08:40:00 - [37] Well this explains my 212 HP interceptor I lost to a disco-bs
Badlamb Baptism oF Fire Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.03.26 09:36:00 - [38] Edited by: Badlamb on 26/03/2009 09:37:19 This is definitely a problem at the moment, here's an Apoc I lost last night in 49- 2009.03.25 21:02 Victim: Badlamb Corp: Baptism Of Fire Alliance: Sons of Tangra Faction: NONE Destroyed: Apocalypse System: 49-U6U Security: 0.0 Damage Taken: 132 No thats not a typo, thats what actually appears on the KM. Whether this is just the KM's being bugged or it actually reflects whats going on ingame I couldn't really say tho. Original KM is here Edit: Just noticed it's also claiming the ship was unfit, which it wasn't. A number of my corpies have had the same thing happen on their mails.
Toka Mocha Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.26 09:44:00 - [39] Originally by: Tandori Tanaka I bet the plates went offline when someone else piloted the ship instead of the original owner. You probably have passive modules hidden so you didnt noticed it ? It is also absurdly easy now to accidentally offline modules in the fitting window. It only takes one mis-click (which you can do even as you're dropping the mods in). I know it's dimmed but sometimes you just don't notice. I have undocked a couple of times with offlined modules due to this. vOv
Melor Rend	Posted - 2009.03.26 09:50:00 - [40] Originally by: Nerogk Shorn I looked on my lossmail, and would you look at that. I only took 15000 or so damage. This makes absolutely no sense as an unfitted typhoon with my skills has more hit points than that. I have had tons of loss and kill mails with totally laughable amounts of damage being displayed. Basically the "damage received" value on kill mails is totally buggy in my opinion. There were many cases where I know 100% that I hit the target and did damage but on the kill mail I have 0 damage done. The last time this happend I killed an Interceptor in my Eagle with 4-5 other guys and only one single person had any "damage done" and that was like 300 damage. Everyone else had 0 damage done and the victim had "damage received" 300 (which is way below the HP of any ship never mind a ceptor).

Rordan D'Kherr	Posted - 2009.03.26 09:59:00 - [41] Originally by: CCP Tuxford As for damage messages not adding up to the sum of the damage needed then I'm pretty sure that the client gets all the damage messages but it is definitely not displaying all of them as they'd just become a blur of messages and even more useless than they are right now (and I think they are pretty useless). I'm not sure how the log handles it tbh. They are pretty useless in the current way they are displayed tbh.
Jack Dant Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre	Posted - 2009.03.26 10:08:00 - [42] In the one case I compared game logs to damage take, it added up. A corpmate in frigate, and me in harbinger killed a war target's vexor. Then the frigate tackled the pod and waited for me to kill it (sharing the killmail, but I did all the damage). My logs show a single hit on the pod for 126 damage, and the killmail says "Damage Taken: 125".
Sir PatrickMoore Caldari Beggar's banquet	Posted - 2009.03.26 10:30:00 - [43] Edited by: Sir PatrickMoore on 26/03/2009 10:30:41 As many have said above, there is a bug with Killmails atm. In the one lossmail where I added up the damage shown in the logs and compared it to that on the killmail, the total damage taken was lower in the KM than that recorded in the logs (about 10% lower in that case). I bug reported this with evidence on the 13th March (ID: 74755), but it has not even been filtered yet.
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.03.26 10:43:00 - [44] Originally by: Sir PatrickMoore Edited by: Sir PatrickMoore on 26/03/2009 10:30:41 As many have said above, there is a bug with Killmails atm. In the one lossmail where I added up the damage shown in the logs and compared it to that on the killmail, the total damage taken was lower in the KM than that recorded in the logs (about 10% lower in that case). I bug reported this with evidence on the 13th March (ID: 74755), but it has not even been filtered yet. Its not only killmail bug. We lost kronos to 2 zealots. Guy was full hitpoints and melted in 10 seconds, total damage dealt was even LESS than his total shields. So something is deffo screwed ingame.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.03.26 11:07:00 - [45] Originally by: Melor Rend Originally by: Nerogk Shorn I looked on my lossmail, and would you look at that. I only took 15000 or so damage. This makes absolutely no sense as an unfitted typhoon with my skills has more hit points than that. I have had tons of loss and kill mails with totally laughable amounts of damage being displayed. Basically the "damage received" value on kill mails is totally buggy in my opinion. This isn't a matter of opinion, when battlecruisers and hacs instapop on undock - getting shot by, by all means a sizable force, but still it would take them at least 10-20 seconds to kill eg. a HAC, and the killmail shows a pitiful amount of damage, and combat log shows even less. Something is stirring in the depths of the world.
Canine Fiend Minmatar Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.03.26 11:18:00 - [46] Edited by: Canine Fiend on 26/03/2009 11:19:15 I believe this to be a bug with killmail generation. I recently found myself a victim to this when one of my corp mates was testing out his bouncer IIs. I lost a Lachesis and my killmail only showed that I took around 1k damage. I petitioned the loss, but also took the time to look through my gamelogs in my local folder. They clearly showed that I took quite a bit more damage and the damage taken just wasn't displayed on the killmail. I suggest anyone who lost a ship and thinks that they didn't take enough damage check their gamelogs folder of the incident and make sure that they weren't mistaken. [EDIT] Clarified a few things.
Onyx Asablot M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.03.26 11:48:00 - [47] Edited by: Onyx Asablot on 26/03/2009 11:47:56 I also noticed this killmail where a marauder was popped for 2925 damage. I think it was petitioned and reimbursed, but without the modules. Instapopping ships ftw :) http://kb.eve-42.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=59280 The NEW M.Corp Data Hub - Check it out!
I SoStoned	Posted - 2009.03.26 12:22:00 - [48] Got jumped on a gate the other day... 4 BS, 1 CS vs/ 3 bs, HIC, and 2 archons. Couldn't break the 3 bs due to the archons so switched over to the (at the time) unscathed Onyx. It didn't melt... it vaporized. Killmail recorded less than 7k damage to a double extended 80%+ omnitank (raw shield from the extenders alone, not taking into account the resistances, should have been higher than 7k).
Lubomir Penev interimo End of The Line.	Posted - 2009.03.26 13:05:00 - [49] Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 26/03/2009 13:11:37 Originally by: Nerogk Shorn I went down in seemingly 15-20 seconds, which i thought was strange as i should have had about 29000 armor. I counted 19 BS, likely pretty gank fitted on your lossmail. Edit : killmail as you posted it is even more wrong, with some people doing no damage repeated.... Once they all started to fire, it was likely an excess of 20k dps you were taking, so you melting fast was expected considering your 100k EHPs, if anything 20 seconds says some were slow to lock you. Originally by: Nerogk Shorn I looked on my lossmail, and would you look at that. I only took 15000 or so damage. This makes absolutely no sense as an unfitted typhoon with my skills has more hit points than that. The speed at which i went down made more sense. There is indeed trouble with killmails at the moment, but not sure in that case that the bug affected the actual fight. -- 20081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 20090317 : back under original ownership
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.03.26 13:05:00 - [50] Originally by: SSgt Sniper I remember seeing a rohk that was killed on the GBC killboard about a week ago that showed about 2500 total damage taken. A battleship that died for 2500 damage. Wat? I can top that: 402 529 ---------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.

Leather Boy	Posted - 2009.03.26 15:39:00 - [51] I have also noticed this. I ganked a hauler (yes i know..) in low-sec, and I did aprox 200 dmg, and my friend did 0. So something is very wrong with the damage calculations on the killmails. Regarding the OT. I think you were just ganked hard. By the time your shield was down everyone in the opposite fleet had a lock, so that's why it felt to wrong.
Ginako Southern Cross Empire	Posted - 2009.03.26 15:42:00 - [52] Originally by: Batolemaeus Originally by: SSgt Sniper I remember seeing a rohk that was killed on the GBC killboard about a week ago that showed about 2500 total damage taken. A battleship that died for 2500 damage. Wat? I can top that: 402 529 What the deuce? 402? Was the Apoc made out of paper-mache??
Lifelongnoob Caldari Final Conflict UK Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.03.26 15:48:00 - [53] no armor hardeners or resists? no wonder it got eaten quickly a large plate tank is not very effective against so many people
Julie Hayes Amarr SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.03.26 15:57:00 - [54] The killmails are definitely not working properly all the time since the patch. I had a few similar cases where I did at least 2k-3K damage to the target, yet the km showed me doing a few hundreds of damage. It might be the similar case here, that even though you did take the correct amount of damage in actual combat, the killmail might be broken and showing inaccurate values.
Vermis Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2009.03.26 16:42:00 - [55] Originally by: SSgt Sniper When you have some free time to kill, peruse a few killboards and check specifically damage numbers post current patch. What you will see is that sometimes the mails make sense, but sometimes they utterly don't. I remember seeing a rohk that was killed on the GBC killboard about a week ago that showed about 2500 total damage taken. A battleship that died for 2500 damage. Wat? I think alot of this has todo with how damage counters are tied to aggression timers and shows up very oddly when those aggression timers are cleared. So without knowing what actually occurred during the fight, the killmail just doesn't tell the whole story. A classic example is when someone de-aggro's and jumps through a gate into another fight with heavy damage and dies quickly. The gate cleared the agression timers and damage counters, but their ship is still heavily damaged.
Forever Alone	Posted - 2009.03.26 17:02:00 - [56] Originally by: Batolemaeus Originally by: SSgt Sniper I remember seeing a rohk that was killed on the GBC killboard about a week ago that showed about 2500 total damage taken. A battleship that died for 2500 damage. Wat? I can top that: 402 529 This suggests that the problem is in killmail generation, not in the actual ship combat. Because, in all cases we see that the enemy has enough firepower to kill the victim. In case of 402, you got a long list of battleships doing 0 damage, even tho it clearly shows their weapon Ayway, until we start seeing cases where a frig/cruiser pops a bs. Or when 5 battleships gank a cruiser yet the cruiser manages to pop one of the battleships, we don't have a strong case that it is a game mechanic bug
Ivan En'Vec The Executioners Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.03.26 17:43:00 - [57] Originally by: Ephemeron did you jump thru a gate already damaged? I suspect damage counters reset on gate jumps This surely doesn't explain all of what's going on, but it's likely the answer in some of the more extreme cases where you see a KM with a BS that took 500 damage. I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that any session change (joining/leaving fleet, jumping, docking/undocking, etc) resets the log that displays on killmails.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.03.26 17:51:00 - [58] I can confirm this is happening more and more lately. Full tanked domi 5300 damage taken? And he was not damaged before hand. The more on the km the more inaccurate it seems. Stop, hammer time.
zombiedeadhead Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.26 17:54:00 - [59] I'm not surprised this is happening to a lot of people, its a definate bug, and one I recognised, having had it prior to the patch. Since the patch I have had 2 Ruptures go down like paper bags, with the same feature of low damage totals on kill-mails that is being reported. Before the patch, this happened to me after clone-jumping while in a ship. That Rupture loss was petitioned, and reimbursed (Thanks btw ). I haven't petitioned again, as I doubted I would be succesful more than once, but I am nervous of risking too much combat atm, until CCP address this.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.03.26 17:56:00 - [60] Originally by: zombiedeadhead I'm not surprised this is happening to a lot of people, its a definate bug, and one I recognised, having had it prior to the patch. Since the patch I have had 2 Ruptures go down like paper bags, with the same feature of low damage totals on kill-mails that is being reported. Before the patch, this happened to me after clone-jumping while in a ship. That Rupture loss was petitioned, and reimbursed (Thanks btw ). I haven't petitioned again, as I doubted I would be succesful more than once, but I am nervous of risking too much combat atm, until CCP address this. Or you just got ganked and the KM is malformed. Stop, hammer time.

Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.03.26 18:21:00 - [61] If this was really a ship combat bug, we'd have cases of impossible kills - where strong gang jumps on a weak ship, yet the weak ship manages to kill one of the strong battleships. Do we have such cases? If not, then it's just a damage logging error
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.03.26 19:10:00 - [62] Originally by: Ephemeron If this was really a ship combat bug, we'd have cases of impossible kills - where strong gang jumps on a weak ship, yet the weak ship manages to kill one of the strong battleships. Do we have such cases? If not, then it's just a damage logging error See that was what I thought after Tuxford's response. I figured that i might have just really been ganked that fast, and it is still possible that i had been. However, we are getting some people saying how their ships were literally vaporized, which is evidence that this is simply not a recording bug, but some strange game mechanic bug actually affecting pvp. We don't have enough reports yet i don't think to confirm it, but right now i believe it seriously needs looking into. The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
FlyinS Caldari Planetary Industry and Trade Organization	Posted - 2009.03.26 19:19:00 - [63] Originally by: Toka Mocha Originally by: Tandori Tanaka I bet the plates went offline when someone else piloted the ship instead of the original owner. You probably have passive modules hidden so you didnt noticed it ? It is also absurdly easy now to accidentally offline modules in the fitting window. It only takes one mis-click (which you can do even as you're dropping the mods in). I know it's dimmed but sometimes you just don't notice. I have undocked a couple of times with offlined modules due to this. vOv I've noticed this same problem myself with the new fitting window. If you click barely a pixel off, you're adding it to your ship, but offlining it as well.
Phantom Slave JUDGE DREAD Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.26 19:28:00 - [64] I threw your ship into EFT, and you should have required just over 41k damage to destroy you (actual shield + armor + hull hitpoints). I'm going to go with some of these other guys and say you had modules offlined and didn't realize it. Either that or you're not being truthful and took damage between docking or opposite sides of a gate.
Dominatus Crispus Gallente Nation of Muppets	Posted - 2009.03.26 19:30:00 - [65] Originally by: CCP Tuxford ps. you got ganked dude qtfw! Corp/Allaince Setup & Tweaking / Faction Standings Boost [Details]
Nkurakarin	Posted - 2009.03.26 20:05:00 - [66] Quote: However, we are getting some people saying how their ships were literally vaporized, which is evidence that this is simply not a recording bug, but some strange game mechanic bug actually affecting pvp. We don't have enough reports yet i don't think to confirm it, but right now i believe it seriously needs looking into. Yes, I wrote that other thread in the Issues category. Like I said, all our interceptors have strange damage taken issues and they INSTAPLODE. I know ceptors should pop fast, but come on, 171 damage? There is a strange bug happening - its a fact.
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.03.26 20:05:00 - [67] Originally by: Forever Alone This suggests that the problem is in killmail generation, not in the actual ship combat. Because, in all cases we see that the enemy has enough firepower to kill the victim. In case of 402, you got a long list of battleships doing 0 damage, even tho it clearly shows their weapon For one of the two losses i have a combat log which shows that i did take the correct amount on damage. The other one was sadly a complete blackscreen. ---------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
Caelum Mortuos Gallente Zero G Research and Development	Posted - 2009.03.26 20:32:00 - [68] Originally by: Furb Killer I thought by now everyone knew, killmails are bugged since apocrypha. I have been on plenty for 0 damage while my logs tell me i did do damage. This, I'm having the same issue
Rhaegor Stormborn H A V O C Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.03.26 22:29:00 - [69] Originally by: CCP Tuxford [Personally I think we should handle damage messages a bit differently /signed
Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.03.26 23:09:00 - [70] Originally by: Nerogk Shorn Originally by: Ephemeron If this was really a ship combat bug, we'd have cases of impossible kills - where strong gang jumps on a weak ship, yet the weak ship manages to kill one of the strong battleships. Do we have such cases? If not, then it's just a damage logging error See that was what I thought after Tuxford's response. I figured that i might have just really been ganked that fast, and it is still possible that i had been. However, we are getting some people saying how their ships were literally vaporized, which is evidence that this is simply not a recording bug, but some strange game mechanic bug actually affecting pvp. We don't have enough reports yet i don't think to confirm it, but right now i believe it seriously needs looking into. There is another explanation: the server correctly calculates damage over time, but your client incorrectly shows no damage, and then the client "catches up" by dumping all accumulated damage in short period of time. That would account for the instant "vaporization" and client side logging errors. The fact is: without direct evidence of weak ships killing strong ship against overwhelming odds, this bug isn't pure damage bug. Because damage bug would not descriminate, the people who gank and people who get ganked would have equal chance of insta-popping each other

Undeniable Existence Questionable Practices	Posted - 2009.03.27 00:29:00 - [71] couldnt help but reply... long list of gankers bro
Cheekything Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.03.27 01:43:00 - [72] I'm taking a wild stab in the dark and guessing you got shot in another system first. Buffer does melt fast and since you didn't have much resists. Anyway you think that's bad check this Uber Damage taken note seemly unedited or PL and AAA both edit killmails in sync....
Kaar coracao ardente	Posted - 2009.03.27 01:56:00 - [73] Wow, im quite shocked this isnt on the known bugs list. We've had this happen to several people since Apocrypha, and all of them (afaik) petitioned it and/or bug reported. ---
Val Erian Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia	Posted - 2009.03.27 03:07:00 - [74] I surpised that this isnt known either. numerous damage total bugs on killmails since last patch in killmails and loss mails. its clearly bugged.
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.03.27 20:22:00 - [75] So it looks like there is at least some sort of killmail bug at least that doesn't affect the actual ships. It is still unsure whether or not we are actually getting any differences in actual hit points. The point that it may be that we just don't see the damage until we can't do anything about it and we basically instasplode is an interesting. While it would mean that we are taking the correct amount of damage, it also would still be very bad for pvp in that when you are taking damage, you don't know it and can't do anything to combat against that (eg turning on your tank or running away) I'm not totally sure how much i believe that though. The stories about the interceptors, the gate camping Onyx, and Kronos show that other people witnessed these ships exploding way too quickly for their tanks. If those stories are true then it can't be specific client lag, but something else. To reiterate, i was not engaged or shot or attacked previous to that engagement. The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
Nkurakarin	Posted - 2009.03.27 23:44:00 - [76] Case in point: Kill Destroyed: Stabber Damage Taken: 790 FC called for everyone to lock him up and counted down and everyone fired at the same time. Only showed the last persons damage and final blow on the KM even though the log showed all of us doing some damage. Its almost like if the fleet alphas the target, only the last blow gets counted in the km...i don't know.
Gabriel Karade Gallente Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.03.30 11:24:00 - [77] Saw this happen on a Tempest killed last night, he did near instapop (somewhere between 20-50 BS will have hit him, plus he had no buffer) and his killmail only shows the 2,329 damage from the top damage dealer, plus 152 from support ship. -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'


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