| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
   |
Posted - 2009.03.25 20:28:00 -
[1]
Nerf ****ing ECM drones. A load of ECM drones should not be an automatic "get out of jail free" card in a 1v1. Currently, you can launch them and you're almost guaranteed to get a jam before you die. At least with Falcons, you know that your opponent had to spend a pilot on a dedicated ECM ship (which is paper-thin and brings nothing else to the fight), but any random ship with a drone bay can carry ECM drones for an automatic escape option.
-----------
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2009.03.25 23:00:00 -
[2]
Agreed.
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
KingDiomedes
Caldari
SniggWaffe
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 01:04:00 -
[3]
you must be smoking crack coz last time i used ecm drones it took 5 mins before they jammed so unless you are using new super ecm drones then i think you should try using them. i think what may of happened is that you suck in pvp and u got ur botty whopped and now your emo crying :)
|
ShadowMaster56
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 01:19:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: KingDiomedes
you must be smoking crack coz last time i used ecm drones it took 5 mins before they jammed so unless you are using new super ecm drones then i think you should try using them. i think what may of happened is that you suck in pvp and u got ur botty whopped and now your emo crying :)
do you even know who you just said that to....
|
KingDiomedes
Caldari
SniggWaffe
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 01:24:00 -
[5]
....looks up... hmm as there is only one whinge post. im gonna say yes i do
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 02:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: KingDiomedes
you must be smoking crack coz last time i used ecm drones it took 5 mins before they jammed so unless you are using new super ecm drones then i think you should try using them. i think what may of happened is that you suck in pvp and u got ur botty whopped and now your emo crying :)
Hint: you're an idiot. I made this post in response to a good 1v1, Phantasm vs. Hurricane, which was ruined when my target simply dropped ECM drones and warped off as soon as his tank failed (and it didn't matter that it took him a full minute to realize that my point had turned off, since his light ECM drones perma-jammed my cruiser until he finally warped off), so I'd hardly call it "getting my botty whopped". And even though that was what motivated this specific post, I've abused ECM drones myself plenty of times in the past, and they're stupidly overpowered. I've perma-jammed BCs and HACs, and jammed plenty of targets long enough to ensure the fight goes my way.
And it's not just me saying this, just look around the forums. How many times have people recommended the Thorax as the best PvP cruiser, just because it has a 50m3 drone bay and can use a full set of ECM drones? How many people have made similar comments about the Harbinger?
And here's another hint: nobody is saying the same things about the other ewar drones. This should just maybe suggest that ECM drones are a little out of balance.
-----------
|
Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
SIRRIUS.
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 02:45:00 -
[7]
ECCM is really effective counter on ECM drones, due to their very very low jam strength. Usually one of these will radically reduce the effects of ECM drones in a battle, so I'd say they are decently balanced as far as ECM goes..
However, when you start to compare them to other e-war drones, they are horribly out of balance. There really isn't a big use for the other drones at all. I'd say, to add different spice to the game, to boost the other forms of e-war drones (mainly the neutralizer and the webbing drones as I don't think anything could save sensor damp drones).
***
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2
WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 04:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
And here's another hint: nobody is saying the same things about the other ewar drones. This should just maybe suggest that ECM drones are a little out of balance.
... because the other drones are complete and utter crap? Take damp drones for instance. You're looking at -12% range and locktime from a Hammerhead SD-600. These HHSDs stacknerf against each other. They're equivalent to one dampener on each attribute. They do jack squat compared to ECM drones or even damage dealing drones.
And last time I looked, the Harbinger was recommended more because of the current Scorch FOTM than anything else - otherwise, you'd see people recommending the Brutix for its drone bay.
----
zzzz ... zzzz ... zzzz |
King Rothgar
Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 05:31:00 -
[9]
ECM drones are effective not because they permajam, but because they break lock for a brief period (5 seconds I think). This combined with relocking time makes them a near sure fire ass saving device against a single target that is ill-prepared for ECM, even if it's much larger than the drones were intended for as they only need one successful cycle to save you from destruction.
There are a few ways to counter them with great effect so I see no need to nerf them beyond completely changing the way ECM works. ECM should be defensive, not offensive imho. Should also be useful on all ships, not just caldari ECM boats.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 06:04:00 -
[10]
Not going to comment on the balance of ECM drones, but you shouldn't base balance on 1v1s.
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 06:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: King Rothgar
ECM drones are effective not because they permajam, but because they break lock for a brief period (5 seconds I think). This combined with relocking time makes them a near sure fire ass saving device against a single target that is ill-prepared for ECM, even if it's much larger than the drones were intended for as they only need one successful cycle to save you from destruction.
Worse, they jam for the full 20 seconds. And that's exactly the problem, it's like the old pre-nerf WCS, as long as you bring your ECM drones, you've got a very good chance of simply warping out of any fight you're about to lose.
-----------
|
Arikanaiz
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 07:25:00 -
[12]
ECM, or ECM drones, will always win in 1 v 1, unless you fit ECCM, everything in this game has a counter to it Merin, JUST because you failed to catch one person because you didn't fit your ship to deal with ONE aspect you screwed yourself. Oops, s*** happens, losing a fight is just that, you lost, not because the game is flawed but because there simply aren't enough fittings slots to make sure you're covered on every possible outcome you can't always win, just think about the guy that got lucky and got away. Maybe one of these days you'll be the one that barely gets away, would you expect that person to write a post complaining because you had an auto win button just because he couldn't pwn you?
Your whole post is a whine, and an epic fail whine at that. Go back to carebearing if you can't handle not killing everyone you target.
scincerly,
Arikanaiz
|
Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 08:10:00 -
[13]
ECM drones are so terrible. Could have a boost tbh.
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 08:12:00 -
[14]
Being required to fit ECCM is just stupid. It's bad enough when you have to fit it to counter Falcons, but to win every random 1v1? Now we need MWD, web, scram, ECCM, guess we just ruled out all those classic 3-mid PvP ships and all of the shield tankers...
-----------
|
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 08:13:00 -
[15]
Wayyyy nack in the day when multispecs were OP and nerfed, ecm drones were never accordingly nerfed. This has been brought up zillions of times on the forums but CCP is kinda ******ed on some aspects of the game.
Originally by: CCP Whisper
So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
|
Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 09:06:00 -
[16]
Consider swapping out one of your small neuts for a smartbomb?
__________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
|
Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 09:33:00 -
[17]
Current ECM drone strengths: light 1, medium 1.5, heavy 2. At least that is borked - should be light 0.5, medium 1, heavy 2. This would already balance them quite a bit.
--
Gradient forum |
retro mike
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 09:38:00 -
[18]
So youre whinging cos you because the enemy ship countered you by using ECM drones. You were outmanouvered. Get over it and move on.
|
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 10:50:00 -
[19]
ECM drones ARE a get-out-of-jail-free card currently. As Merin pointed out, they never got their nerf-bat hit when the "lulzECMDomi" where removed.
And it goes further than that. A ship with a majority of its damage based on turrets/Missiles (Harbinger, Hurricane, Rupture etc.) can reliably use its drone bay to tank by fielding EC-xxx drones as long as it engages ships of similar or smaller size ..
That in itself is unbalanced, unless ALL ships get similar sized dronebays, but that would decrease variety which is bad.
|
Lindsay Logan
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:05:00 -
[20]
you always got the option of killing the ECM drones, eihter with your own drones you simply targeting and shooting them.
And there should be a get out of jail free card. You are after all dropping a lot of damage for ECM drones when you could have used 5 Hammerhead II.
Maby tweak the ECM duration to say 10 seconds would be better then 20 seconds from the ECM module.
|
GTN
tr0pa de elite
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:55:00 -
[21]
noob get a smartbomb or eccm to counter ecm drones
|
5pinDizzy
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:13:00 -
[22]
Agreed! CCP, nerf the only non combat drones that are even worth using!
if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature. |
Amy Wang
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:25:00 -
[23]
1. half ecm drone strength
2. rename electronic warfare drone interfacing to something else, keep the +3k range/lvl effect
3. introduce a fresh electronic warfare drone interfacing skill: rank 1-2 that does +20% per lvl (or make it rank 5 and give it +25% per lvl)
4. introduce t2 ecm drones that need the skill at 5 (rank 1-2) or 4 (rank 5)
5. ???
6. profit
|
Daitanfutekina Unsoya
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 13:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
"get out of jail free" card in a 1v1
How often do you pvp with missiles in Apoc? need a web, scram, painter..
The first thing a forum load of people will tell you is, ADAPT OR DIE
If anything is apparent. Its that ccp wants blobing and no soloing.
so yeah, In addition to current solo pvper's fitting AB AND MWD or either or and TWO ****ing webs now,
they also want us to fit 1-2 eccm it seems. even still, leave ECM drones alone. I've usually managed to bump people when the ecm drones come out and SEAL THE DEAL the old fashion way. you know hull grinding..
|
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 15:29:00 -
[25]
Normally I don't tell people to fit smartbombs to counter drones, but if ECM drones are giving you a hard time then why not? One Smartbomb will ruin the life of any ecm drone users, as well as having the added benefit of making other drone users miserable, meaning unlike ECCM it actually has a very valid purpose outside of countering one thing. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 09:17:00 -
[26]
Just had another engagement where the extreme broken-ness of ECM drones reared its ugly head.
Two Guardians each with 2x ECCMII .. fire on one and sic a flight of EC-600 on the other .. forced a redock when the primary was killed shortly after the buddy was jammed.
I won't even bother with the numbers since this should quite frankly not be possible. It is proof positive of a broken mechanic and it needs to be remedied as fast as possible.
CCP: You really need to find an alternative to chance based jamming and its effects. When two T2 "counter modules" are not enough to prevent a jam from a STR=1.5 drone something is broken.
This is serious space-ships, not a Casino .. die rolls have no place here.
|
Serge Aton
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 09:38:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Serge Aton on 05/04/2009 09:46:45
So many noobs in these here parts me wantz to pirate meself... arrrrrgggg...
Edited by: Serge Aton on 05/04/2009 09:40:06
If you want to complain about how effective they are and not be willing to fit a counter on them, then its your fault. They can easyly be defeated with smart bombs. But you people would never think of anything that complicated or even consitter the use of eccm jammers.  Look at your comments, calling people names and stuff is just childish.
Think before you speak. And no this isn't a F***ing spelling B. Don't even start with me. Get over it, learn to adapt, not complain. All I hear is complain about this and that. Fit a dang counter for god sakes if everybody uses them so much its cus your not thinking out side the box. 
Also ECM drones are not perma jamming. Its all based off your sensor strength. Do the math hun??? Fit a sensor strength booster, fit ecm drones of your own, eccm, and even smart bombs = best counter. Now if your ontop of them you'd beable to pop them and their pod as soon as their ship poped.
ECM drones come onto you, hit eccm wile your mwding to them, and smart bomb their drones at the same time. When their drones are popped, hold them down, bring out your own ecm drones, jam jam jam, and pew pew pew goes your target.  If you can't defeat them then your skills just suck.  |
Kowaii Rabbit
o1nk
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 09:41:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Kowaii Rabbit on 05/04/2009 09:44:01
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Hint: you're an idiot. I made this post in response to a good 1v1, Phantasm vs. Hurricane, which was ruined when my target simply dropped ECM drones and warped off as soon as his tank failed
Yes...it would have been SO much better if he had released the drones and they didn't work. We should nerf them so they don't work.
That's the problem when people scream for nerfs based on a bad experience. They convince themsleves that things would be much more balanced if the tactic/module used by their opponent didn't actually work at all. Might as well just remove them from the game.
I suppose you've never had an experience where those ECM drones, which could otherwise have been replaced with damage dealing drones, didn't get a jam?
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Being required to fit ECCM is just stupid...
Yes, just like being required to fit a tank to avoid blowing up is stupid.
http://www.ezy-english.com/ |
Oghma Grianainech
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 13:32:00 -
[29]
whine whine whine whine whine ......CCP REMOVE ALL SHIPS ! we need only frigs with 1 turrent ! everything else is too complicated !
|
Robert Caldera
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 13:54:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 05/04/2009 13:55:39
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Nerf ****ing ECM drones. A load of ECM drones should not be an automatic "get out of jail free" card in a 1v1. Currently, you can launch them and you're almost guaranteed to get a jam before you die. At least with Falcons, you know that your opponent had to spend a pilot on a dedicated ECM ship (which is paper-thin and brings nothing else to the fight), but any random ship with a drone bay can carry ECM drones for an automatic escape option.
you s*ck dude, you ever thought the ECM drones ARE FOR jamming people???
Stop requesting f*cking nerfs for everything what WORKS!
You fit a warp scrambler to scramble people and they just fit some other thing to counter you, nothing wrong with this. |
big miker
Minmatar
Order of Anarchy
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 14:14:00 -
[31]
Edited by: big miker on 05/04/2009 14:14:41
Best thing imho is too lower the CPU need for smartbombs. How many ships are ectually capable of fitting a smartbomb with those cpu requirements? Almost none.
big m,
edit: First on page 2
|
El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 14:56:00 -
[32]
What? Is this some sort of joke?
CCP would have to be mad to nerf ECM drones, as they're the only EW drone that's any use. The others are terribad, and need a boost.
ECM drones are entirely balanced - the pilot who chooses them has to give up quite a large chunk of their dps. The thorax example you cite - with good skills, unbonused Hammerhead IIs give up 150 DPS (ranged dps, dont forget), which is more than a THIRD of the dps of an electron II rax. Ie they're taking a 33% damage nerf to gain that ability.
To make a comparison - that rax has opted for a really really poorly fitted, nerfed Kitsune to accompany him, rather than a well-skilled, well-fitted pulse crusader, blaster incursus, or equivalent.
They're also by far the least tough drone, and are easily dispatched by medium smartbombs, warrior IIs, etc. ECCM are superb counters due to the low jam strength per drone, although of course you get the usual "why should I fit a module to counter someone else's entire setup/drone bay" whine brigade who think that because they got jammed once one time when they used ECCM that the mechanics are broken (hint: they're not).
At the end of the day, this whine thread is nothing new, but considering CCP have caved on plenty of things in the last couple of years, I wouldn't be surprised if they forced everyone to switch back to damage drones, and put ECM drones with damp, TD, painter and nos drones in the "could have been good content" bin.
_______________________________________________
Mercenary Forces |
Raimo
Gallente
Wrath of Fenris
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 16:02:00 -
[33]
A thought occured to me. It might have been suggested already, but how about a warp disrupting drone with one point? It might be OP but it still might be balance-able by being only 25m3 size and otherwise limited sufficiently in speed and range. It would be perfect for prospective Falcon killers and also very handy against the "get out of jail" ECM drones... Is it a bad idea? |
JGR Guinevere
Caldari
Veteran's Department
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 17:32:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Raimo
A thought occured to me. It might have been suggested already, but how about a warp disrupting drone with one point? It might be OP but it still might be balance-able by being only 25m3 size and otherwise limited sufficiently in speed and range. It would be perfect for prospective Falcon killers and also very handy against the "get out of jail" ECM drones... Is it a bad idea?
Not a good idea. Just think of all the possible abuses of a warp scram drone.
|
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Solaris Operations
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 18:31:00 -
[35]
Ignore Merin. I've been trying to get him/her/it? removed from the forums. Nothing more than a thoughtless troll...
--Isaac
Isaac's Haul*Mart - Open
Please resize sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
DMF KingBob
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 20:10:00 -
[36]
its true this ecm drones should be nerfed or removed becouse the are an escape-card
|
Robert Caldera
|
Posted - 2009.04.05 20:18:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 05/04/2009 20:19:15
so what?? If the pilot sacrifies a lot of DPS from drones for the ability to escape, there is nothing wrong. You're trying to claim the right to tackle/fight people, there is no such its even great there is an effective counter for scramblers.
|
Kowaii Rabbit
o1nk
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 12:10:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Just had another engagement where the extreme broken-ness of ECM drones reared its ugly head.
Two Guardians each with 2x ECCMII .. fire on one and sic a flight of EC-600 on the other .. forced a redock when the primary was killed shortly after the buddy was jammed.
I won't even bother with the numbers since this should quite frankly not be possible. It is proof positive of a broken mechanic and it needs to be remedied as fast as possible.
CCP: You really need to find an alternative to chance based jamming and its effects. When two T2 "counter modules" are not enough to prevent a jam from a STR=1.5 drone something is broken.
This is serious space-ships, not a Casino .. die rolls have no place here.
This kind of post really ****s me. People who make assumptions that fit their arguments.
You don't KNOW that the ecm drones had the effect you suggest they did. You've created the whole story based on the observation that one of two Guardians was killed in an engagement. From this observation you imagine that one of them MUST have been jammed.
Since the engagement involved more than just the two Guardians on the enemy side (they also had at least a Hurricane and Stilleto which presumably the Guardians were supposed to be protecting), you don't know for a fact that the Guardians were focusing their reps and energy transfer on each other.
This is the killmail on the Guardian: http://www.amarr-empire.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=42741
Take into consideration that the Guardian pilots commented in local about being hurt by neuts (from the Archon I guess) and not by ecm drones, and this "proof positive of a broken mechanic" story of yours starts to look a little less proof positive.
I wonder how often these experiences prompt nerf threads?
http://www.ezy-english.com/ |
Toyo Italari
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 12:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: El Yatta
What? Is this some sort of joke?
CCP would have to be mad to nerf ECM drones, as they're the only EW drone that's any use. The others are terribad, and need a boost.
ECM drones are entirely balanced - the pilot who chooses them has to give up quite a large chunk of their dps. The thorax example you cite - with good skills, unbonused Hammerhead IIs give up 150 DPS (ranged dps, dont forget), which is more than a THIRD of the dps of an electron II rax. Ie they're taking a 33% damage nerf to gain that ability.
To make a comparison - that rax has opted for a really really poorly fitted, nerfed Kitsune to accompany him, rather than a well-skilled, well-fitted pulse crusader, blaster incursus, or equivalent.
They're also by far the least tough drone, and are easily dispatched by medium smartbombs, warrior IIs, etc. ECCM are superb counters due to the low jam strength per drone, although of course you get the usual "why should I fit a module to counter someone else's entire setup/drone bay" whine brigade who think that because they got jammed once one time when they used ECCM that the mechanics are broken (hint: they're not).
At the end of the day, this whine thread is nothing new, but considering CCP have caved on plenty of things in the last couple of years, I wouldn't be surprised if they forced everyone to switch back to damage drones, and put ECM drones with damp, TD, painter and nos drones in the "could have been good content" bin.
This.
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Ignore Merin. I've been trying to get him/her/it? removed from the forums. Nothing more than a thoughtless troll...
--Isaac
And this.
Merin -can't- adapt. It seems him/her/it is more interested in trying to recreate Eve in his/her/its image, and insists that all ideas brought forth by him/her/it are perfectly balanced.
I don't even use ECM Drones, although I have very high drone skills in general, as I'm sure they're effective enough but I prefer using damage over ecm (Ogre IIs, for example).
Just because nobody's yelling "these need to be nerf!" about the other ewar drones doesn't necessarily make ecm drones out of balance with the rest of the game, just with the rest of the ewar drones.. Which don't tend to get used very much.
Merin, you went in not knowing the fit and drone setup of your opponent, and lost a kill as a result. Had you known, you would have fit some counter for it so that you could still make your kill. Thus, effective counters to it exist and your entire argument is flawed. Bear in mind, I am making the assumption here that you would have actually fit one of the very viable counters that have already been suggested.. Particularly if ecm drones are as broken and common as you say. In fact, if they are such an "I win" button, you have no excuse whatsoever for not fitting a counter as everyone would be using them as a result of FOTM.
That, or you still would have let your kill get away. The fault is yours, not CCP's. |
Endless Subversion
The Accursed
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 13:49:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 06/04/2009 14:00:13
Stop flaming Merin about this. ECM drones are terribly overpowered, especially vs smaller ships.
See THIS post for how stupid they are.
Highlight: 5x light ecm drones jam a geddon 26% of the time. LOL NERF!
I get gayed by them all the time. A single light ECM drone jammed my ECCM'd abaddon yesterday (I have the fraps for it) and 5x Med ECM drones jammed my overloaded ECCM'd abaddon for 3 cycles in a 2 min fight. That means 50m3 had me unable to lock for more than half of a fight.
Small gangs have a hard enough time engaging larger blobs without also being unable to fight due to ultra cheap, super low skilled swarms of ecm drones preventing them from locking anything.
The things are stupidly overpowered.
|
Rordan D'Kherr
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 13:57:00 -
[41]
|
Rufis Dangerfield
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 14:00:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Stop flaming Merin about this. ECM drones are terribly overpowered, esepcially vs smaller ships.
I get gayed by them all the time. A single light ECM drone jammed my ECCM'd abaddon yesterday (I have the fraps for it) and 5x Med ECM drones jammed my overloaded ECCM'd abaddon for 3 cycles in a 2 min fight. That means 50m3 had me unable to lock for more than half of a fight.
Small gangs have a hard enough time engaging larger blobs without also being unable to fight due to ultra cheap, super low skilled swarms of ecm drones preventing them from locking anything.
The things are stupidly overpowered.
Cool. Where's the link to the fraps?
|
Allaera
Caldari
Kisogo research group
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 14:12:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Allaera on 06/04/2009 14:16:33
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Nerf ****ing ECM drones. A load of ECM drones should not be an automatic "get out of jail free" card in a 1v1. Currently, you can launch them and you're almost guaranteed to get a jam before you die. At least with Falcons, you know that your opponent had to spend a pilot on a dedicated ECM ship (which is paper-thin and brings nothing else to the fight), but any random ship with a drone bay can carry ECM drones for an automatic escape option.
What the F...!?!? You're crying because someone learned to counter your point?
Well dry your eyes princess and welcome to EVE! 
Btw, here's a little advice - why not do some learning yourself and figure out a counter for his counter? I believe in this case it's called ECCM
Edit:
Or maybe even a smartbomb 
|
Robert Caldera
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 14:17:00 -
[44]
ECCM? oh noes, this would take a whole mid-slot away from the gank/tank setup!
|
Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 14:34:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Colonel Xaven on 06/04/2009 14:34:02
TL;DR
ECM drones work. Some people do not like it.
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Endless Subversion
The Accursed
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 20:12:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Rufis Dangerfield
Cool. Where's the link to the fraps? And assuming the tables are right, what chance of jamming an un-ECCM'd Geddon with 5 light ecm drones do you think would be best, if not 26%. You don't think an average of 1 jam every 80 or so seconds is ok? How does that change with an additional 96% sensor strength + 30% overload for ECCM II? Should they have no affect at all?
I think 25m3 of drone bay that can be used by having electronic warfare drones 2 and drone 3 taking a geddon out for 26% of a fight is pretty stupid. Did you know 2x light ecm drones are the same strength as 1x med ecm? Unlike small vs medium dmg drones, where the medium does less dmg than 2x lights. This means that drones 5 isn't needed to be just as effective with ECM drones.
Also 1/80 looks like a lot less than 1/4 huh? 1 jam ever 80 seconds is 20 seconds out of 80. That's a 25% dmg reduction as well as breaking neut, point, web and the ability to assign drones.
I think ECM as a mechanic is dumb. Breaking lock is far too powerful as it effectively ends a pvp engagement (they warp) and/or favors blobs totally (outnumbered AND unable to target means no losses for the blob, as well as solo/small gang players needing dmg drones for utility vs tacklers/smaller targets and for when they don't have a lock, while the blob just has enough ships to cover this role).
Ecm that can be used after a few hours of train time at 100% strength on any ship with a drone bay is even stupider.
Here's another point for you. If I fit a sensor booster and they use 25m3 of sensor dampening drones I have BETTER sensor stats that I would with no drones / no SB. In other words fitting a counter module counters their drones 100% while also providing a benefit if no damps are on the field. Fitting an ECCM means I'm just jammed less and have no benefit if no ecm is around.
Also, way to be a *****, I'll see about turning the raw fraps into a movie file just for you and then upload it if you personally apologize to me for being a d-bag. "If the tables are correct" "Where is the link to the fraps" etc.
|
Sera Ryskin
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 21:19:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 06/04/2009 21:21:03
What's really hilarious is the crying about "you just can't adapt!!!!". Sorry, but that's just bull****. I use ECM drones myself, so any nerf would apply just as much to me as to my targets. At least I'm honest enough to admit that I'm abusing a massively overpowered weapon on every ship with 50m3 drone bay.
Honestly, the problem is with the ECM system in general and its black and white "oops, you're jammed, I win" mechanic, but I'm not idealistic enough to think that CCP will ever do anything about it.
PS: "fit ECCM" is still stupid, no matter how many times you repeat it. The solution is not ECCM, the solution is bringing a second or third tackler to ensure that at least someone keeps a point on the target. So much for solo PvP I guess...
==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
|
Vulture mmkay
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 21:47:00 -
[48]
ok so let me get this straight
you are complaining about this because 1 person ecmed u by using drones that are easly counterable and because he used them and managed to escape you think there "overpowered" they are no way near overpowered compared to other stuff in EVE maybe CCP should think to which race is intended to use drones and give dominix ishtar and vexor and myrm a e-war boost to drones for an ability then they would be overpowered like nano was "overpowered" im just guessing ur angry at ECM nerf upcumming that you believe all other people should suffer well some news for you the dorr is over there >>>>>>> and dnt let the way out of eve to wow hit ur ass
|
Vulture mmkay
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 21:53:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 06/04/2009 21:21:03
PS: "fit ECCM" is still stupid, no matter how many times you repeat it. The solution is not ECCM, the solution is bringing a second or third tackler to ensure that at least someone keeps a point on the target. So much for solo PvP I guess...
lofl ecm work against drones but not falcons since they sit 200km+ away and permajam u ecm drones just get a 1-2 ecm's off once every fight
well mine do anyway unless ur usin super ecm drones
|
Sera Ryskin
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 21:59:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 06/04/2009 22:00:18
Originally by: Vulture mmkay
ok so let me get this straight
you are complaining about this because 1 person ecmed u by using drones that are easly counterable and because he used them and managed to escape you think there "overpowered" they are no way near overpowered compared to other stuff in EVE maybe CCP should think to which race is intended to use drones and give dominix ishtar and vexor and myrm a e-war boost to drones for an ability then they would be overpowered like nano was "overpowered" im just guessing ur angry at ECM nerf upcumming that you believe all other people should suffer well some news for you the dorr is over there >>>>>>> and dnt let the way out of eve to wow hit ur ass
First, let me introduce you to a little friend of mine. It's called a period. It is typically used to mark the end of a sentence, and can be found in the bottom right corner of your keyboard. The correct use of this wonderful little invention will transform your incoherent rant into something that actually makes sense.
Now then: ECM drones, as a defensive measure, can not be countered. It is literally impossible to smartbomb or lock ECM drones before they get at least one attempt at jamming, giving a 1v1 opponent an extremely good chance of escaping. Remember, perma-jam is not the objective here, you just need one successful jam cycle to escape.
As for "go back to WoW", sorry, but you're an idiot. Read the post above: I abuse the hell out of ECM drones, just like I've abused Falcons in "1v1"s. And I will continue to do so, until CCP finally nerfs them. I just think the game would be better off overall if the overpowered "get out of jail free" card was removed for everyone, myself included.
PS: the existence of counters does not prevent a module/drone from being overpowered. The old pre-nerf WCS had counters, but that didn't stop them from getting a long-overdue nerf. ECM drones are more of the same: they make it way too easy to avoid having to commit to combat.
==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
|
Kowaii Rabbit
o1nk
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 00:39:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Did you know 2x light ecm drones are the same strength as 1x med ecm? Unlike small vs medium dmg drones, where the medium does less dmg than 2x lights. This means that drones 5 isn't needed to be just as effective with ECM drones.
Nope, I didn't know that multiple ecm drones combined their ecm strength. You sure?
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Also 1/80 looks like a lot less than 1/4 huh? 1 jam ever 80 seconds is 20 seconds out of 80. That's a 25% dmg reduction as well as breaking neut, point, web and the ability to assign drones.
That's assuming the fight lasts long enough for the drones to have any affect whatsoever. Did you know 80 seconds is 1 minute and 20 seconds?
Why is this unreasonable on an un-ECCM'd ship? Have you worked out yet what that 26% jam probability becomes witha 96% increase in sensor strength from fitting an ECCM II, and then what it becomes if you overload it for another 30%?
Do people actually believe their own rhetoric when arguing that ECM just shouldn't work?
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Ecm that can be used after a few hours of train time at 100% strength on any ship with a drone bay is even stupider.
fair enough argument.
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Also, way to be a *****, I'll see about turning the raw fraps into a movie file just for you and then upload it if you personally apologize to me for being a d-bag. "If the tables are correct" "Where is the link to the fraps" etc.
Hey, you want to quote evidence to support an argument, you'd better be ready to present it if called on, baby!
http://www.ezy-english.com/ |
Jimmy Doe
POS Consultants Group LLC
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 01:09:00 -
[52]
I've been doing alot of testing on sisi lately, and I am seeing ECM drones everywhere. Its a damn sad day when a cruiser can unload 5 medium ECM's and keep me perma jammed in a BS. And yes, it happens all the damn time. in fact, after the ECM-domi-nos nerf, i used a similar setup but with 5 ECM drones out to jam the target while i sucked all the cap out, then recalled and deployed heavies to finish them off so that i didnt even have to tank anything. Yet i still say that something with 1 or 2 points of jam strength shouldnt have as high a chance to jam as they actually do. I dont say you have to nerf their strength, but either the equation or the % chance needs to atleast be looked at. And I do have to agree that the other ECM drones (TP,SD et al) really need looking at, they are useless.
"The tree of liberty is nurtured with the blood of patriots." |
Linavin
Mercurialis Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 01:37:00 -
[53]
I'd agree ECM drones are currently out of line with other EW drones, as well as being slightly too powerful in my opinion. Just look back at the last ECM nerf, where jammer strength got halved and strength bonuses got introduced, multispecs were on everything. Right now 5 light ECM drones (EC-300s) jam as much as a single old multispec. While not as bad as Domi's running around with 3 multispecs, a single multispec on any cruiser with a free med slot could dramatically enhance their small scale combat ability. You've got a similar issue here albiet lessened by the necessity of a drone bay and the loss of 80 dps (perfect skills with warriors). They're just a tad too good, I would rather have a flight of light ecm drones for small gang pvp than warriors or hobgobs.
I would agree with a light nerf, no more than say a 15% strength nerf. However the larger issue is how good they are versus all the other EW drones, do boost them in comparison to ECM drone levels of usefulness in the very least.
---
|
CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 03:49:00 -
[54]
emm how is this different from a bs comming with light drones? which is small guns ?
so no not really.. or actually i would like to see both thing nerfed to hell. but well
___________________________________________
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 03:51:00 -
[55]
Originally by: big miker
Edited by: big miker on 05/04/2009 14:14:41
Best thing imho is too lower the CPU need for smartbombs. How many ships are ectually capable of fitting a smartbomb with those cpu requirements? Almost none.
big m,
edit: First on page 2
this, and boosting their dmg dramatically, 2 smartbombs should 1-2 hit kill drones of same size.
___________________________________________
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
Phidell
Chaos Reborn
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 05:10:00 -
[56]
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The ECM jam cycle is far too long. 1m 20s to jam a target means a dps reduction of 25%. 50m3 should not reduce a BS's dps Bs's dps by 1/4. Double that and it's reasonable. On average 2m 40s to jam a BS with light ecm drones. You say it's a long time. Sure it is, but throw 5x hobgob II's and see how effective they are. they'd do absolutely nothing while ECM drones have a decent chance to drastically swing a fight.
People complain that 1m 20s and a fight is over. Hell, 20s is more than 1/4 of a fight then. It's overpowered simple as.
It's all or nothing ECM, and it's all way too often.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |