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W-Space Exploration Site Respawn Rates- what gives CCP?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.30 08:57:00 - [31] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Cailais Fix high sec and the issues surrounding the the 'worth' of .0, Low Sec and W space all disappear. QFT QFObvioustT
Ja'kar Geb's Call Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2009.03.30 09:34:00 - [32] High sec is fixed! High sec is for those that what to be safe(ish) and make iss. CCp love me as they bring in cash! Don't expect high sec to get harder anytime soon MAFIA Website
mechtech Entropy Industries	Posted - 2009.03.30 09:38:00 - [33] Originally by: Ja'kar High sec is fixed! High sec is for those that what to be safe(ish) and make iss. CCp love me as they bring in cash! Don't expect high sec to get harder anytime soon High sec shouldn't be harder, it should just be 50% as profitable as it currently is.
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.30 09:44:00 - [34] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Cailais Fix high sec and the issues surrounding the the 'worth' of .0, Low Sec and W space all disappear. QFT I couldn't agree more. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Lagn Gita	Posted - 2009.03.30 10:10:00 - [35] i agree, nerf high sec to make other badly implemented features seem better.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.03.30 12:21:00 - [36] Why are you guys still comparing isk faucets and non-isk faucets in regard to isk pr. hour? ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Cailais Amarr Diablo Advocatus Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.03.30 13:20:00 - [37] Originally by: Jowen Datloran Why are you guys still comparing isk faucets and non-isk faucets in regard to isk pr. hour? Because to the individual player wether he makes ISK from an ISK faucet such as NPC Bounties, or from another player purchasing items hes harvested (non-faucet) makes no significant difference to their overall activity. However it does have an impact upon players in a wider sense. Why sell products you have 'fought' for in .0 / w space to make ISK when you can make ISK out of 'thin air' by killing NPC rats in high sec? Each unit of ISK a player has is unit of effort, where effort equals risk over time. Of course a true comparison is difficult because whilst Empire space 'risk' is essentially a value of 0 and therefore the 'effort' is judged only by the value of 'time' its much harder to judge the value of ISK achieved in Low Sec / .0 / W space because the 'risk' value is very variable (an example being some .0 systems have a risk value of 0 or close to it at given times of the day, but a very high risk value at peak periods). Therefore we have to rely upon circumstantial evidence, anecdotal evidence and player perception to see wether non-high sec activity is worthwhile. C. Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2009.03.30 13:44:00 - [38] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Cailais Fix high sec and the issues surrounding the the 'worth' of .0, Low Sec and W space all disappear. QFT Yeah don't get your hopes up, as long as the EVE market is free it will always be obscenely profitable to those who know how to work it in safety. People who think missions are the most profitable thing in empire are sorely mistaken. ----------- Originally by: CCP Whisper Deal with it.
Obidom Jax	Posted - 2009.03.30 13:44:00 - [39] I dont even know how to find W-Space I am a Sad Panda Maybe some day I will be able to enter W-Space adn lose a shedload of ships, until then i will mine mine and Msn in high sec until i am confident enough to fly a Cov Ops ship and learn how to 'Scan down' W-H
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.30 13:54:00 - [40] Originally by: Gamer4liff Yeah don't get your hopes up, as long as the EVE market is free it will always be obscenely profitable to those who know how to work it in safety. People who think missions are the most profitable thing in empire are sorely mistaken. The market: - Is not an ISK or Loot Faucet - Forces competition over finite potential profits - Requires more than performing exactly the same actions over and over and thus it, while still the most profitable thing in the game, does not need nerfing. - DesuSigs

Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2009.03.30 15:09:00 - [41] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Gamer4liff Yeah don't get your hopes up, as long as the EVE market is free it will always be obscenely profitable to those who know how to work it in safety. People who think missions are the most profitable thing in empire are sorely mistaken. The market: - Is not an ISK or Loot Faucet - Forces competition over finite potential profits - Requires more than performing exactly the same actions over and over and thus it, while still the most profitable thing in the game, does not need nerfing. Well that would be a good argument if that was the main point people were arguing about. It ultimately doesn't matter where the isk comes from in the argument set that people are making right now (the usual risk v reward nonsense). All these people care about is the gross profit of the individual per security of system most played and completely ignore the many examples that make "risk v reward" a complete fabrication. Besides, if people think there is too much isk in the game they should halve rat bounties/mission rewards/insurance/npc buyorders. Fat chance of that happening though. Also: - Is not an ISK or Loot Faucet True, but not really relevant. - Forces competition over finite potential profits True - Requires more than performing exactly the same actions over and over False, if you find a good niche you can stay there for a long time, until somebody discovers it. It requires even more repetition than missions and ratting, especially if you play the .01 isk game. ----------- Originally by: CCP Whisper Deal with it.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.30 15:17:00 - [42] Originally by: Gamer4liff Well that would be a good argument if that was the main point people were arguing about. It ultimately doesn't matter where the isk comes from in the argument set that people are making right now (the usual risk v reward nonsense). - Is not a faucet/forces competition Can not be infinitely farmed to a guaranteed ISK/hour - the more that try, the less everyone gets. -Requires you to find that niche, which takes more effort than finding a Lv. 4 agent Combined with the above means it will not be a one stop shop for money making like faucet type income is. Basically, the market is not farmable, not in the same sense as missions/ratting/mining/w-space/whatever. Some people just don't get it. Other people get stupidly rich off it. Whereas everyone doing L4's gets basically the same ISK/hr. So, the market is not applicable as a baseline, and does not need to be nerfed or even taken into account. - DesuSigs
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.03.30 15:19:00 - [43] Originally by: Rivqua They work like plexes in K-Space, you kill them, they respawn in a different system. Your biggest problem is that noone else is clearing Level 5s at the same rate you are, so when they respawn somewhere else, they are not being killed of, so they respawn elswhere again, possibly in your system. I am pretty confident that there is a very constant amount of Class-5 plexes out there (anomalies/radar/mag/grav), but they move around the systems as people finisht them off. So when your cov ops finds you one Class 5 and your fleet start clearing it, he should immidiately start looking for the next system, and hopefully be done finding it by the time you've cleared it. So in conclusion, working as intended, you need to move around, WH systems can be colonized for PoS ops and such, but not for profitability in sleepers, not until alot more peeps are running them, so you get a constant respawn rate based on plexes being killed of outside your system. This seems like a very logical and workable explanation as to how the mechanics are currently working. If this is indeed the case then w-space is another non starter. I'll probably give it a few more weeks to see if anything changes, but it doesn't look like it. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Zarroh	Posted - 2009.03.30 15:29:00 - [44] Good!
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.03.30 15:41:00 - [45] I think other people, are annoyed like me because; We know we can run missions in highsec, yes it earns tons of cash but it's boring and it's grind. We can run wormholes and low/nullsec stuff and it's a lot more exciting but you're enjoyment is spoilt by... "Ya know this isn't earning me hardly anything at all, I might aswell just be running missions in highsec for more profit" In my stride I've managed to earn 30 mill an hour running missions in highsec and that's not including all the lp's. I spent two days in a wormhole, almost got killed by someone hunting me, took hours to find a way out, barely missed dying to a pirate camp, docked and checked value of loot to see it come to a market value of about 10 million isk. if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.03.30 16:59:00 - [46] Edited by: Space Wanderer on 30/03/2009 17:02:29 Sorry OP, but that's how exploration has always worked. Obviously unexplored areas have plenty of sites to find, while explored areas have much less. It was true for kspace exploration and it is true for wspace exploration. Working as intended, I would say. Still, you can make work the pos nonetheless. Just use it as a base for expedition in other WHs, and in the meanwhile react the new stuff harvested from ladar sites.

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2009.03.30 17:15:00 - [47] It was a design decision early on in the process that we didn't want people to "settle" in w-space at this stage. Everything here is working entirely as designed.

Khlitouris RegusII	Posted - 2009.03.30 17:17:00 - [48] Originally by: Polly Prissypantz Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII CCP did say they had improved wormhole npc's ai maybe the npc's have decided it's not economically viable for them to keep respawning in a system camped by pod pilots and they all decided to relocate to a less busy system. So you're saying the rats are smarter than Motsu mission runners? Anything's smarter than a motsu mission runner
Jalum Krayal	Posted - 2009.03.30 17:19:00 - [49] Originally by: CCP Greyscale It was a design decision early on in the process that we didn't want people to "settle" in w-space at this stage. Everything here is working entirely as designed. I hope you can appreciate how this little detail about respawn rates would've made many of your customers much happier had they known about it.
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.03.30 17:24:00 - [50] Edited by: Faife on 30/03/2009 17:25:06 for pete's sake, they said over and over that that's how it was going to work. meanwhile, a whole lot of borderline illiterates kept posting brilliant threads about "i have this amazing unique ides, i will put (wait for it) A POS IN WORMHOLE SPACE! no one has every though of this. it's insane. we'll be trillionaires" now, whose fault is that? stop playing it safe and start roaming --

Jalum Krayal	Posted - 2009.03.30 17:31:00 - [51] Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 30/03/2009 17:25:06 for pete's sake, they said over and over that that's how it was going to work. meanwhile, a whole lot of borderline illiterates kept posting brilliant threads about "i have this amazing unique ides, i will put (wait for it) A POS IN WORMHOLE SPACE! no one has every though of this. it's insane. we'll be trillionaires" now, whose fault is that? stop playing it safe and start roaming No, wrong. What they said was that logistics to supply your POS in wormspace would be the main problem with settling there (no ice or npc goods). They never said that wormspace relied on the same constellation/region respawn mechanics that known-space exploration does. After all, if it was their design and desire for players not to settle in wormspace, they could've just told us up front. No one would have erected a POS if they could clear the content in 3-12 hours. Everyone wins.
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.03.30 17:34:00 - [52] Originally by: Jalum Krayal No, wrong. What they said was that logistics to supply your POS in wormspace would be the main problem with settling there (no ice or npc goods). They never said that wormspace relied on the same constellation/region respawn mechanics that known-space exploration does. After all, if it was their design and desire for players not to settle in wormspace, they could've just told us up front. No one would have erected a POS if they could clear the content in 3-12 hours. Everyone wins. yeah yeah, that's what people kept saying over and over, and i just sat there laughing still laughing --
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.30 17:41:00 - [53] Originally by: CCP Greyscale It was a design decision early on in the process that we didn't want people to "settle" in w-space at this stage. Everything here is working entirely as designed. For the love of God, why not? Increase space by 50% and say you don't want people to live there? Wat?
Hamatitio Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.03.30 17:53:00 - [54] Edited by: Hamatitio on 30/03/2009 17:54:03 ever think you have to let the w-space 'despawn' of sorts. IE not having a pos in it, not logging out in it, letting it sit like that till DT? edit: for terrible Hijack this
Casiella Truza Stillwater Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.30 17:54:00 - [55] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: CCP Greyscale It was a design decision early on in the process that we didn't want people to "settle" in w-space at this stage. Everything here is working entirely as designed. For the love of God, why not? Increase space by 50% and say you don't want people to live there? Wat? I think you may be misunderstanding the word "exploration". -- IC Twitter
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.03.30 18:11:00 - [56] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: CCP Greyscale It was a design decision early on in the process that we didn't want people to "settle" in w-space at this stage. Everything here is working entirely as designed. For the love of God, why not? Increase space by 50% and say you don't want people to live there? Wat? i dont see why this is difficult. if you want to print isk, go mine in high sec or run missions. if you want to explore, go to wormhole space guess what, YOU NEED TO MOVE AROUND TO EXPLORE. working as intended, problem between keyboard and chair, etc. --
Maria Kalista Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.30 18:18:00 - [57] Originally by: Casiella Truza Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: CCP Greyscale It was a design decision early on in the process that we didn't want people to "settle" in w-space at this stage. Everything here is working entirely as designed. For the love of God, why not? Increase space by 50% and say you don't want people to live there? Wat? I think you may be misunderstanding the word "exploration". This^. And to prevent corps to actually try to 'own' a piece of W-space. Since its not worth it over time, people will hopefully move on. What point would it be to increase EVE 0.0 space by 50% and have it gooned/blobbed/bobbed/kenned up within 3-4 months? Now you go in, take what you can get and move on to the next hole in space. Great job and a brilliant design CCP! Originally by: tentonhammer One galaxy, limited resources, 450K players who are all a little odd to begin with and a porous system of currency trading. Welcome to the asylum, let's take a tour!
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.03.30 18:20:00 - [58] Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 30/03/2009 18:20:15 Originally by: Maria Kalista Originally by: Casiella Truza Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: CCP Greyscale It was a design decision early on in the process that we didn't want people to "settle" in w-space at this stage. Everything here is working entirely as designed. For the love of God, why not? Increase space by 50% and say you don't want people to live there? Wat? I think you may be misunderstanding the word "exploration". This^. And to prevent corps to actually try to 'own' a piece of W-space. Since its not worth it over time, people will hopefully move on. What point would it be to increase EVE 0.0 space by 50% and have it gooned/blobbed/bobbed/kenned up within 3-4 months? Now you go in, take what you can get and move on to the next hole in space. Great job and a brilliant design CCP! ^^ This again. Excellent job CCP! Static things in MMOs are horrible. Spawn camping was shown to be hell over a decade ago yet MMOs still all to often fall into this trap. Had CCP allowed people to setup camp in W-Space it would not have been long before all the good stuff was controlled by a relative few. This is "Exploration". So explore...not camp. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.03.30 18:21:00 - [59] I approve of this design feature. It doesn't make W-space POS useless, of course. Making the occasional big fuel run and being able to do everything else at a POS, mostly devoid of threats is quite a bit better, and you can always scout out other wormholes from the one you're in.
Mari Katarin	Posted - 2009.03.30 18:25:00 - [60] Give it time. Most people capable of doing the ISK/unit time calculation will move on, and sleeper goo will rise in value until w-space is once again worth exploring for a dozen people or so. That takes care of the supply part. Now, the demand side -- Siig should have that covered singlehandedly. A small corp or two should be easily supported by Siig's losses to caldari FW.



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