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New Scanning System (6.1.86367) + Suggestions

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Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2009.04.07 16:57:00 - [61] Edited by: Allen Ramses on 07/04/2009 16:57:16 Personally, I think the filter should only be applied once you have a warpable hit. Once a scanner receives absolute coordinates, probes can be configured to ignore certain ranges at certain angles. So basically, if I want to filter out all the grav sites, I must first hunt all of them down to a precise location. It gives us a solid map without simply filtering a site at 25%. ____________________ CCP: Catering to the cowards of a cold, harsh universe since November, 2006.
Arushia Nova Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2009.04.07 18:47:00 - [62] Originally by: RedClaws Personally I feel that if we indeed get a feature (where once you scan to 100% it'll stay on 100% for the session) , we don't really need the ignore option anymore. The clutter in WH space should reduce by itself as you scan more complexes at 100% right? Given how you need to get to 25% to even know the type you're ignoring, and even better strength to know the exact site you're ignoring, I don't see how removing that option will change much. Also, good astrometrics skills (except maybe Astrometrics 5) are not useless now, the exploration process is much slower with poor skills. As for Astrometrics 5, I'd like to see tech-2 probes that require astrometrics 5 and give a strength bonus, or some other benefit.
Nyota Sol Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.04.07 19:00:00 - [63] I sense that they may have made some changes to signal strengths recently on Test (hard to verify), so perhaps that's the direction they are headed in... I've had some strange results in the last 2 days. I've had red dots regularly showing up outside the overlapping area of my 4 probes (pyramid) which seems unusual. This has lead to it being a LOT harder to effectively narrow down my probe range because there's increased risk of getting no results (i.e. going from 8au to 4au around a cluster of hits and then getting no results at that location). Another person just indicated they were experiencing much more variance in WH signal strength than usual, which matches my recent experience. ___________________________________________ *Lost in Space* - Apocrypha Exploration Resources
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2009.04.07 20:19:00 - [64] Edited by: Allen Ramses on 07/04/2009 20:21:35 Originally by: Arushia Given how you need to get to 25% to even know the type you're ignoring, and even better strength to know the exact site you're ignoring, I don't see how removing that option will change much. You'd be surprised. Drop a 4 AU probe at a star, and from the get-go you might find 3 or 4 sites that are identified as Gravimetric. That's 3 or 4 fewer sites to parse with only one scan of a single probe. Too little effort, IMO. EDIT: BTW, can we please change the signature type from Unknown to Disturbance? ____________________ CCP: Catering to the cowards of a cold, harsh universe since November, 2006.
Trebor Daehdoow Gallente Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.08 14:57:00 - [65] Some super-simple things I would like to see that would take some pointless annoyance out of scanning and let me concentrate on the actual work of scanning: 1) Give probes names that sort properly, ie: Probe 008, Probe 009, Probe 010 instead of 8,9,10, which sorts 10,8,9. This would make probe management easier. 2) Have other column sorts (active, for example) subsort by probe number. So if you have probes 1,2,3,4 out, and 2,3 active, sorting by active would list them 2,3,1,4. 3) Permit bookmarking of current PROBE locations. This would allow people to keep track of the initial hits in a system and return to them later. It would also make tracking things down in complex situations a wee bit easier. 4) A positioning option that halves or doubles the distance of the selected probes from their current common center. Maybe too much to ask but most of my probing time is spent doing this with my tetrahedron of probes. I'd prefer a probing system that requires more thinking and less mindless busywork. World Domination - It's fun for the entire family! EViE - The iPhone / iPod Touch Skill Training Monitor
Qui Shon	Posted - 2009.04.08 16:44:00 - [66] Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow I'd prefer a probing system that requires more thinking and less mindless busywork. Me too, but the current system requires no thinking. At all. Not that much "micro" either. For most sites you can just throw your probes in any odd jumble, and even the more difficult sites don't require much in the way of probe placement. Took me about four minutes to scan down a 10/10 with lvl 4 scanning skills and a rigged covops, and I'm certainly not a seasoned scanner. (That was on TQ, btw.) Whatever tedious, mindless work there is to scanning, at least it doesn't take very long. CCP really dropped the ball when introducing a new system. I say that even though I realize they probably did achieve what they set out to do, which was to make scanning easy enough so that all the tards can do it witin their five minute attention spans. Next step is getting all the people aboard who can only focus for 30seconds.... And all they had to do to come up with something great was to take a look at Sub Command. Include an auto-feature, but tune it so there'd be a real benefit to "manual analysis". When the remote bookmarking and ignore signal / signal type function hits TQ, I really can't see how anyone could complain about too much work going into scanning. It'll be as easy and quick as tying your shoelaces. Sure there's still a bit of drag the arrow, but not much.
Desequenced Gallente Sentient Biotechnology Invention	Posted - 2009.04.08 18:13:00 - [67] Edited by: Desequenced on 08/04/2009 18:16:53 My 2 cents: 1) Yay, CCP listens: Assembly Hall post 2) Some quick possible suggestions: Remove the ignore feature Buff DSPs a bit Before you pick up your jaw from the floor, and start the flaming, let me explain my reasoning. With the current system on Sisi (granted, IÆm @ work, so no hands-on for me), the ignore feature breaks the main thing everyone is whining about: the skill requirement (anyone can ignore anything off the get-go). Now, if the signatures that you narrow down are indeed staying as 100% after you warp to it / remote BM, then removing the ignore feature puts the skills back in it like so: A skilled (in terms of SP) player will be able to scan and exclude undesirable sites faster then an unskilled one A player that knows how to use the probing system will also be able to scan faster, speed being limited by SP and the currently piloted ship Finally, if the ignore feature is removed, it would punt the ôe-z modeö (y'know... 10 day old character in a wormhole Radar/Mag kind of thing) straight out of the closest airlock, without doing much to unbalance the game... In my opinion, that is. Now, for the DSPs: currently, other than the long range, there is little incentive to use them. My suggestion? Give them a small (say... 5% sig strength boost over Core @ same range) yet significant boost. That way, players that want to specialize have the option to increase their ability to do so, and the players who donÆt much care for the increased strength will not feel like theyÆre being left out. YÆknowà kinda like the new T2 salvager/analyzer/codebreaker. Cheers.
Nyota Sol Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.04.08 20:55:00 - [68] There is absolutely no reason to completely remove the "ignore" features. That's taking the gripe way too far, and the feature is pretty awesome. I think it should just be connected to training Astro 5 or scaled by skill. ___________________________________________ *Lost in Space* - Apocrypha Exploration Resources
Nyota Sol Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.04.08 21:04:00 - [69] BUG???? It seems that there's a bug in the latest build and we could use more people investigating to nail it down. I've tried to explain this to a few people and they don't seem to get it. I know i'm not the only one seeing this problem, because others on SiSi were talking about it earlier today. EXAMPLE: I ran 4 scans in a row with 4 probes in tetrahedron setup at 4au. Didn't move the probes, just rescanned 4 times. 3 of those 4 times I had a single red dot clustered in the same little area towards a corner of the overlap area of the 4 probes. Picture that in your head. 1 red dot result repeated in one corner of the overlap area of 4 probes in pyramid formation. When i centered the pyramid over that area and rescan (at 4au still) i get no result. None. Not even a red sphere. This implies a deviation larger than 4au. I've had my targets mysteriously vanish several times since 6.1.86469 In talking about this with somebody in singularity, i realized that i had been seeing cases of split results with only 1 dot. In other words, 2 results with same ID but only red dot for both. Our hypothesis was that there's a bug relating to the results and it's basically sometimes showing a BAD ghost result. How that can take you out of range i am not sure, but it seems like the root problem is related to bad split results (i.e. 3 probes). I will test tomorrow or later tonight to try to narrow it down. ___________________________________________ *Lost in Space* - Apocrypha Exploration Resources
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2009.04.08 21:11:00 - [70] Cant imagine for exact, but still description is quite understandable. Have you tried to get BH attention on the matter? -- Thanks CCP for cu
Manfred Rickenbocker The Elliance	Posted - 2009.04.08 22:34:00 - [71] Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 08/04/2009 22:34:55 Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow 3) Permit bookmarking of current PROBE locations. This would allow people to keep track of the initial hits in a system and return to them later. It would also make tracking things down in complex situations a wee bit easier. Hahaha, no! We already have enough problems with deep safe spots, the last thing we need are people warping even further. Originally by: Nyota Sol BUG???? It seems that there's a bug in the latest build and we could use more people investigating to nail it down. I've tried to explain this to a few people and they don't seem to get it. I know i'm not the only one seeing this problem, because others on SiSi were talking about it earlier today. EXAMPLE: I ran 4 scans in a row with 4 probes in tetrahedron setup at 4au. Didn't move the probes, just rescanned 4 times. 3 of those 4 times I had a single red dot clustered in the same little area towards a corner of the overlap area of the 4 probes. Picture that in your head. 1 red dot result repeated in one corner of the overlap area of 4 probes in pyramid formation. When i centered the pyramid over that area and rescan (at 4au still) i get no result. None. Not even a red sphere. This implies a deviation larger than 4au. I've had my targets mysteriously vanish several times since 6.1.86469 In talking about this with somebody in singularity, i realized that i had been seeing cases of split results with only 1 dot. In other words, 2 results with same ID but only red dot for both. Our hypothesis was that there's a bug relating to the results and it's basically sometimes showing a BAD ghost result. How that can take you out of range i am not sure, but it seems like the root problem is related to bad split results (i.e. 3 probes). I will test tomorrow or later tonight to try to narrow it down. I think its an accuracy issue. So, you are barely able to snag a result with three probes, so it generates two results (as it should) and it looks like one of the results is within all four probes scan spheres. After that, you choose the wrong one to look at and lose the signal. Remember, if its within all four probe ranges, you shouldnt be seeing it (I also see this issue sometimes when it throws the second result into the sphere of only one probe, of course thats not the right one!). I think it has to do with the math CCP is using to generate the dots, which, might I say, is completely bonkers. They need to fix this quick. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.04.08 23:15:00 - [72] Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 08/04/2009 22:34:55 Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow 3) Permit bookmarking of current PROBE locations. This would allow people to keep track of the initial hits in a system and return to them later. It would also make tracking things down in complex situations a wee bit easier. Hahaha, no! We already have enough problems with deep safe spots, the last thing we need are people warping even further. Seemed to me like he was talking about saving the positions of the probes to re-use them in the same position later, not make an actual bookmark at a probe. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
ollobrains Caldari State Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.09 02:57:00 - [73] So we are now moving back to scanning grind where it takes hours to find each site. I did expect this would eventually happen Plus the dynamic spawn system is broken to check this thread http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1044026 so seems 2 things are now bugged scanning and dynamic real time spawn-despawning of all sites empire especially where finished sites remain 4 days later sigs and anamoly sites. Low sec where the same thing is occouring, wspace seems ok and no idea on 00 at this time
Captain Vampire	Posted - 2009.04.09 10:19:00 - [74] Originally by: ollobrains So we are now moving back to scanning grind where it takes hours to find each site. I did expect this would eventually happen Plus the dynamic spawn system is broken to check this thread http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1044026 so seems 2 things are now bugged scanning and dynamic real time spawn-despawning of all sites empire especially where finished sites remain 4 days later sigs and anamoly sites. Low sec where the same thing is occouring, wspace seems ok and no idea on 00 at this time Exactly what has changed, how is scanning slower than the current system?
Nyota Sol Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.04.09 19:53:00 - [75] Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker Originally by: Nyota Sol BUG???? It seems that there's a bug in the latest build and we could use more people investigating to nail it down. I've tried to explain this to a few people and they don't seem to get it. I know i'm not the only one seeing this problem, because others on SiSi were talking about it earlier today. EXAMPLE: I ran 4 scans in a row with 4 probes in tetrahedron setup at 4au. Didn't move the probes, just rescanned 4 times. 3 of those 4 times I had a single red dot clustered in the same little area towards a corner of the overlap area of the 4 probes. Picture that in your head. 1 red dot result repeated in one corner of the overlap area of 4 probes in pyramid formation. When i centered the pyramid over that area and rescan (at 4au still) i get no result. None. Not even a red sphere. This implies a deviation larger than 4au. I've had my targets mysteriously vanish several times since 6.1.86469 In talking about this with somebody in singularity, i realized that i had been seeing cases of split results with only 1 dot. In other words, 2 results with same ID but only red dot for both. Our hypothesis was that there's a bug relating to the results and it's basically sometimes showing a BAD ghost result. How that can take you out of range i am not sure, but it seems like the root problem is related to bad split results (i.e. 3 probes). I will test tomorrow or later tonight to try to narrow it down. I think its an accuracy issue. So, you are barely able to snag a result with three probes, so it generates two results (as it should) and it looks like one of the results is within all four probes scan spheres. After that, you choose the wrong one to look at and lose the signal. Remember, if its within all four probe ranges, you shouldnt be seeing it (I also see this issue sometimes when it throws the second result into the sphere of only one probe, of course thats not the right one!). I think it has to do with the math CCP is using to generate the dots, which, might I say, is completely bonkers. They need to fix this quick. If only 3 probes are hitting a target then it should show split results. I'm saying that i think 2 different things started happening on SiSi: a) when you see split results on a single ID, it's only showing 1 red dot for both results b) sometimes it's supposed to show split results and it's only showing 1, which occasionally is a ghost result and thus sends players off on wild goose chases ___________________________________________ *Lost in Space* - Apocrypha Exploration Resources
Trebor Daehdoow Gallente Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.09 22:49:00 - [76] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker Hahaha, no! We already have enough problems with deep safe spots, the last thing we need are people warping even further. Seemed to me like he was talking about saving the positions of the probes to re-use them in the same position later, not make an actual bookmark at a probe. Sorry for not being more clear -- I was talking about a BM-ish thing that you could warp a probe to, not a ship. I agree, arbitrary warpable bookmarks have unintended consequences! World Domination - It's fun for the entire family! EViE - The iPhone / iPod Touch Skill Training Monitor
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2009.04.09 22:56:00 - [77] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 09/04/2009 23:00:12 My two cents: => I don't like the new sphere texture of the probes (for what are the rings in the net?) and also the scanning effect (what's that good for?) It's missing the adding overlay effect of the actual texture on Tq, which shows where probe scanareas OVERLAP. http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2426/probesrectangular.jpg => I don't like that I either can move ONE probe or ALL probes.. but not a subselection of probes.. like 2! => I don't like that the scan results show up with the sites name in a black bubble, ALTHOUGH I deactivated that in the 'solarsystem map'-settings! => I don't like that the movement of the probes is bound to such small gizmos, although I have to use them 95% of the time I scan (5% is waiting for the timer). The ARROWS are hard to catch sometimes (especially if you look at the vertical ones where they're flat) and also REDUNDANT (for what reason are there 2 arrows for one direction?).. Can't there be a BETTER gizmo, like 3 flat rectangles and 3 sticks for each axis we can just grab and that adjusts itself to the visible sides.. ? http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3929/simplegizmo.jpg I also have no idea, why some people here have problems to keep track of the sig's they want to scan down.. Just start with 32au probes and make a first scan over all celestial objects, this should give you the NUMBER of sigs in the system. Then use 4 Probes with 32au and arrange them NOT in a tetraeder, but instead in a simple planar rectangle. Its easier and faster to adjust. Now only thing to do is concentrate on one of the red dots (best is select it in the results list) and keep hunting it. When you got it down 100%, bookmark it, rescale the probes to 32au.. or less, if you remember where some of the hits had been and start again in a rectangular arrangement. You can even SCREEN the core of the solar system with the probes at 8au range.. and with proper skills. => The thing I would like to see is a SAFE-Mode for a set of results. I would like to be able to save the first scan, which says me where the sites are roughly at my 32au scan. That way I don't need to rescan the damn system every time. I don't need ID's. I can see when a sig is 100% tracked down, to which of the initial dots it belongs to.. for what should I need ID's there? It is also very easy to follow the sig's through the various stages of re-arranging the probes.. [edit spelling error]
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.09 23:15:00 - [78] Originally by: Psihius ... So those who say it's easy - try staying in W-space for a day and then scanning down an exit. You'd wish you had taken a falcon with skilled pilot with you! When I find a wormhole, I regularly scan down wormholes 2-3 systems deep. It's _not_ a problem finding wormhole in w-space systems.
Nyota Sol Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.04.10 15:24:00 - [79] new patch. we need some testing. ___________________________________________ *Lost in Space* - Apocrypha Exploration Resources
Nyota Sol Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.04.12 21:56:00 - [80] 86632 patch (bug remains) 3 probes split result gets me single red dot for both results. Distances show differently but it's the same dot. In fact, with 32au probes i was getting split results from 2au to 11au apart but yet still 1 red dot at same location for both results. This is easily replicated. ___________________________________________ *Lost in Space* - Apocrypha Exploration Resources

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