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Ship idea - Salvager

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Ruu Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.04 16:03:00 - [1] Disclaimer: This may have been posted before, this may be the wrong section, this might be ignored, im just speaking my mind and putting my ideas down in the hope that CCP might agree. Basic thaughts; We have dedicated ships for just about everything in eve, but it seems those jolly ship construction and design departments overlooked an important role - the role of looting and salvaging. Bare with me and continue to read please. Ok, so yes, we have been given 2 types of tractor beam, small and capital and we have been given 2 (one recently) types of salvager, tech 1 and 2. The recent addition of Marauders added the first non-capital to have any bonus towards any of the above modules, but its merely that, a bonus, nothing dedicated. Proposal: All states decide to commision the creation of a dedicated looting and salvaging ship, to provide efficient gathering of materials and conserve costs, as wormhole exploration has taken its toll on empire resources. It would also provide a useful addition to fleets roaming wormholes, a ship which is dedicated to looting, salvaging and providing valuable cargo space for said equipment. Ship basic: The tech 1 ship would need to be relatively fragile, perhaps with a tech 2 version sacrificing cargo space/salvaging efficiency for survivability, similar to industrials/transport ships. Ship bonus/role: Ship will not be able to use any offensive modules, as it interferes with its special salvaging or something. Ship will have bonus for salvaging and tractor beams, and also contain a role bonus for cargo space. Although pilots have been relatively happy using destroyers, battlecruisers even battleships to salvage in (and they can still do that if they like) but even in terms for role-play, it simple makes sense to have some kind of ship designed for this role, its a niche unfilled. As with almost everything, there is the downside that this will speed up the ISK gains of mission runners which is already high - speaking personally, id take an ISK cut of some sort if it meant faster looting, it is oh so mind numbing currently. I think this is a legitimate claim to a new niche of ship. Thank you for reading.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.04.04 16:44:00 - [2] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 04/04/2009 16:45:33 This is brought up almost every other day it seems. Personally I do not believe that CCP should add this type of ship, the reason being that even though salvaging is a profession as stated by CCP it's a profession that poses no risk for the person salvaging (unless they also steal loot.) Since certain races of NPCs provide some extremely valuable salvage (Sansha, Angels, and so forth) and people can just grab it with no true risk to themselves, the idea of creating a ship that further boosts the salvaging profession cannot be balanced no matter how you slice it.
Eldern Minderhost	Posted - 2009.04.04 16:56:00 - [3] what risk does empire mining hold? they get a dedicated ship... if you say they risk can-flipping then I would say they are doing a similar thing to a salvager who steals loot. Can flipping was not meant to be a part of the mining system originally.
Dracthera Minmatar	Posted - 2009.04.04 17:12:00 - [4] 1. This should be posted in the Features and Ideas Discussion forum since you're talking about a new capability 2. Everything you've mentioned can be accomplished with existing ships. Marauders have bonuses to tractor beams, as do Orcas. You can put on rigs that will help you with salvaging to get the 'bonus' you're looking for. 3. Some ships like destroyers and BCs make excellent salvaging vessels, and you can turn them into dedicated salvagers by throwing salvage tackles on them. They may not have tractor beam bonuses, but their speed mitigates the need for a long-range, fast tractor beam. I guess in principle I'm not against specialized ships, I just don't see the reason for this one when you can convert any existing ship into a dedicated salvager. Apto Quod Ususfructus
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.04.04 17:18:00 - [5] Originally by: Eldern Minderhost what risk does empire mining hold? they get a dedicated ship... if you say they risk can-flipping then I would say they are doing a similar thing to a salvager who steals loot. Can flipping was not meant to be a part of the mining system originally. But what about salvaging is similar to can flipping? There are no aggro mechanics associated with salvaging, nor should there be (nor will there be, according to CCP who stated that ninja salvaging is an intended part of the game.)
Sen Quenten Gallente Mining and Manufacturing Inc	Posted - 2009.04.04 19:46:00 - [6] Originally by: Dracthera Marauders have bonuses to tractor beams, as do Orcas. You can put on rigs that will help you with salvaging to get the 'bonus' you're looking for. I don't know about the rest of you, but I just love the thought of an Orca salvager...
Xapharia WOLIMAZO INC	Posted - 2009.04.04 20:48:00 - [7] Edited by: Xapharia on 04/04/2009 20:50:53 Originally by: Dracthera I guess in principle I'm not against specialized ships, I just don't see the reason for this one when you can convert any existing ship into a dedicated salvager. We don't need more specialized salvage ships... Missioning in certain systems is bad enough as it is with people warping in all the time and taking all your wrecks and getting hit by your smartbombs before you have a chance to react. As stated above almost any ship can be turned into a dedicated salvager. _________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Ruu Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.04.05 09:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Xapharia Edited by: Xapharia on 04/04/2009 20:50:53 Originally by: Dracthera I guess in principle I'm not against specialized ships, I just don't see the reason for this one when you can convert any existing ship into a dedicated salvager. We don't need more specialized salvage ships... Missioning in certain systems is bad enough as it is with people warping in all the time and taking all your wrecks and getting hit by your smartbombs before you have a chance to react. As stated above almost any ship can be turned into a dedicated salvager. By your logic, they didnt need to add mining barges or exhumers - certain battleships can mine almost as good with the right setup? But no, they did add the mining barge to be a specific mining ship designed to mine. Exactly what im suggesting, a specific ship designed to loot and salvage. Ninja salvaging played no part in my thaught process here, what they are using is fast ships without tractor beams, only salvaging not looting - this ship is designed for tractors, salvage and looting, it wont change anything.
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.04.05 09:42:00 - [9] i would like to see specialized salvaging ship. there are enough T1 hulls that could be T2 salvagers.
Naran Darkmood Gallente Firman AB 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.05 10:05:00 - [10] CCP are aware of that problem, but currently, they are ingnoring it.... Originally by: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy [i]"Space," it says, "is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down th

Malevolent Martyr Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.04.05 13:15:00 - [11] As many times as this is suggested I must put my "Ninja Stamp Of Approval" on this. Please give the bears (and us) ships specially designed for salvaging and looting. Also go ahead and give into the carebears desire to put aggression on ninjas, I'm always flashy red in a mission anyway and I'd like a little less competition.
Dracthera Minmatar	Posted - 2009.04.05 15:08:00 - [12] Originally by: Sen Quenten Originally by: Dracthera Marauders have bonuses to tractor beams, as do Orcas. You can put on rigs that will help you with salvaging to get the 'bonus' you're looking for. I don't know about the rest of you, but I just love the thought of an Orca salvager... I use mine all the time for looting/salvaging L4's.
Xapharia WOLIMAZO INC	Posted - 2009.04.05 21:15:00 - [13] Originally by: Ruu By your logic, they didnt need to add mining barges or exhumers - certain battleships can mine almost as good with the right setup? But no, they did add the mining barge to be a specific mining ship designed to mine. Exactly what im suggesting, a specific ship designed to loot and salvage. Ninja salvaging played no part in my thaught process here, what they are using is fast ships without tractor beams, only salvaging not looting - this ship is designed for tractors, salvage and looting, it wont change anything. Mining is, unlike Salvaging, considered a profession. You don't have to first kill a roid and THEN grab the ore either, which is exactly how salvaging works. (unless you ninja it from someone.) And exactly how fast do you mean that it should be able to go through wrecks? You have to produce those wrecks at some point too, so a normal hauler can actually pull it off nicely alongside the ship killing. If you just want to use one character then just fit a salvager and maybe a tractor (if you have the slots) on your ship and slowboat around while you're mopping the floor. _________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.04.05 21:51:00 - [14] More highslots on a blockade runner, and that'll do me.
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2009.04.06 03:03:00 - [15] Originally by: Dracthera 2. Everything you've mentioned can be accomplished with existing ships. Marauders have bonuses to tractor beams, as do Orcas. You can put on rigs that will help you with salvaging to get the 'bonus' you're looking for. Originally by: Dracthera I guess in principle I'm not against specialized ships, I just don't see the reason for this one when you can convert any existing ship into a dedicated salvager. I've got a Golem pimped for salvaving, and it works well, but it was so expensive, with the hull itself and the rigs, that it would probably make most people's eyes bleed. The point of a Salvaging Ship is that it should have a reasonable cost. More like 50M ISK, than the probably 1 billion ISK that my Salvage Golem is worth. The cost of my Golem, used for that purpose, isn't reasoanble. It's silly. I only bought it and rigged it because I happen to have sufficiently huge funds to be able to afford it, and nothing better to spend it on (I have a cargo-pimped Hulk too). What are, you know, normal players going to do? Snail around in their destroyers with pitifully tiny cargo holds, and tractor in from a 20km-diameter sphere? Just because I have ISK to burn doesn't mean the average player has that option. A Salvaging-specific ship makes a lot of sense. -- Salpad
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2009.04.06 03:06:00 - [16] Originally by: Malevolent Martyr As many times as this is suggested I must put my "Ninja Stamp Of Approval" on this. Please give the bears (and us) ships specially designed for salvaging and looting. Also go ahead and give into the carebears desire to put aggression on ninjas, I'm always flashy red in a mission anyway and I'd like a little less competition. As a law-abiding Caldari, and as CEO of a law-abiding corporation (currentlly in hibernation, but we'll come back stronger), I emphatically do not approve of theft. However, the current situation is that ninja tractorers wil be doing their foul business in Marauders, which are very robust ships. If they could be tricked into attempting to commit their vile crimes instead while flying thin-hulled Tractoring-specialized ships, it would be much easier to teach them the error of their ways. -- Salpad
Angelos Gateway Industries	Posted - 2009.04.06 03:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Malevolent Martyr As many times as this is suggested I must put my "Ninja Stamp Of Approval" on this. Please give the bears (and us) ships specially designed for salvaging and looting. Also go ahead and give into the carebears desire to put aggression on ninjas, I'm always flashy red in a mission anyway and I'd like a little less competition. Ninja salvagers are the carebears, not the missioneers. We want to kill you, but you hide in high sec stealing without consequence. The only tears here are yours.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.04.06 03:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Angelos Originally by: Malevolent Martyr As many times as this is suggested I must put my "Ninja Stamp Of Approval" on this. Please give the bears (and us) ships specially designed for salvaging and looting. Also go ahead and give into the carebears desire to put aggression on ninjas, I'm always flashy red in a mission anyway and I'd like a little less competition. Ninja salvagers are the carebears, not the missioneers. We want to kill you, but you hide in high sec stealing without consequence. The only tears here are yours. All the more reason to nerficize high sec missions. Then nobody can be making big ISKs without consequence or risk.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2009.04.06 04:30:00 - [19] While we're at it, let's make a ship that gets bonuses to code breakers and analyzers and cargo scanners and ship scanners. lolol :D:D:D:D:D Srsly, do not need a specialized ship for every module. Fly a damn destroyer like everyone else.
ViperII	Posted - 2009.04.06 06:10:00 - [20] my 500 mps destroyer with 4 tractor beams and 4 salvagers plus 450 m3 mops up my level 4's plenty fast enough, and would problably still out salvage an orca even with its 70km tractor beam range.

Amiarat Horatio	Posted - 2009.04.06 09:14:00 - [21] Originally by: Ruu Originally by: Xapharia Edited by: Xapharia on 04/04/2009 20:50:53 Originally by: Dracthera I guess in principle I'm not against specialized ships, I just don't see the reason for this one when you can convert any existing ship into a dedicated salvager. We don't need more specialized salvage ships... Missioning in certain systems is bad enough as it is with people warping in all the time and taking all your wrecks and getting hit by your smartbombs before you have a chance to react. As stated above almost any ship can be turned into a dedicated salvager. By your logic, they didnt need to add mining barges or exhumers - certain battleships can mine almost as good with the right setup? But no, they did add the mining barge to be a specific mining ship designed to mine. Exactly what im suggesting, a specific ship designed to loot and salvage. My lord just because man created the pick axe doesn't mean we have to mine with it forever. spec. mining vessel is essental to any economy. Ninja salvaging played no part in my thaught process here, what they are using is fast ships without tractor beams, only salvaging not looting - this ship is designed for tractors, salvage and looting, it wont change anything.
GyokZoli Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.06 09:33:00 - [22] Edited by: GyokZoli on 06/04/2009 09:35:49 Salvaging in a BC with salvage tackle rigs is extremely easy and efficient (Hurrican anyone?). I see only one reason why would CCP give us a dedicated salvage ship and that is to cut the prices of the rigs. Ahh and about mining ships: without them all ships would cost like 10 times as much as they cost now. So we definitely need specialized miner ships but we may not need specialized salvager ships.


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