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Learol	Posted - 2009.04.10 18:40:00 - [1] Does anyone have any information about what all those spikes are for/what they do? If there isnÆt anything official out anywhere, does anyone have ideas of their own about it? thanks all, Learol
Stitcher Caldari ForgeTech Industries	Posted - 2009.04.10 20:07:00 - [2] My guess? decorative. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Sir Substance Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp	Posted - 2009.04.11 00:09:00 - [3] my guess was always that they were carona discharge points. when you have a perfect metal sphere, and you cahrge it, the electrical field is the same all the way around the ball. if you put a point on that ball though, the field peaks in intensity at the point. since sanshas ships are designed to be resistant to just aobut everything (according to the descriptions), i assumed that the spikes somehow helped dissipate the energy from lasers, EMP ammo and EM damage missiles etc.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.04.11 01:23:00 - [4] my honest guess, to look scary to enemies
Mr Reeth	Posted - 2009.04.11 08:28:00 - [5] I already put this in another thread but... this is what they are for. But seriously, there is a disconnect between reality and design. I doubt CCPs ship designers were too concerned about what every part of every ship is for or making much sense out of the ships at all. I mean why are there windows on the bottoms of so many ships? Are people walking on windows? I would put a little money that the designers did it to make the evil pirate ships scary. If you really need a RP reason for the spikes then it could be that Sansha wanted to intimidate his enemies (most unlikely) they are part of the unique shield emitters sansha designed, or they are antenna for scanning and communication.
Ghost Hunter Naqam	Posted - 2009.04.11 10:59:00 - [6] Most likely some kind of sensors, probably the Nation's version of it. Their spikes are a lot more pronounced, but many many other ships have some kind of spikes as well. Scorpion, Machariel, Raven, Typhoon, etc etc. I personally treat them as such. ______ The Seven Events of the Apocalypse The fourth event is described by Macaper as ôthe appetite of nothing expands over the worldö;
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2009.04.11 13:37:00 - [7] Kebab skewers.
Esna Pitoojee Amarr TalCorp Enterprises	Posted - 2009.04.12 04:12:00 - [8] Boarding lances. No, I'm serious. You knock a vessel's shields down, boil off a bit of the armor, and stick one of those spikes into a non-critical section, and you've got an easy boarding mechanism. Drop legions of True Slaves in, let them do their borg thing, and then pull the spike out and make off with your newly-won prize. ---------------------------------------------- Say "Amarr ships suk, lol." I dare you. My statments do not represent the opinions, views, or actions of my corp.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.04.12 14:50:00 - [9] the Spikes could be for Pokey pokey but the Intimidation factor is likely bigger. in the history of war, pointless decoration for the sake of scaring or lowering Morale of enemies isnt totally uncommon. or the Sanshas could be like the Reavers from Firefly and use the spikes to scare and to rip into their latest catch.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.04.12 19:17:00 - [10] While I wouldn't discount the intimidation factor Sansha ships are (in-game) known to be superbly designed vessels (although their design philosophy is supposedly quite alien, being designed originally by the mad genius Sansha Kuvakaei). Could be mounting points for sensors, shield emitters or simply that they in some way increase the hulls performance. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
Per Bastet Amarr B.O.O.M	Posted - 2009.04.16 16:33:00 - [11] Reading over this I have noted that there is one Idea that has been ignored totally. Heat Dissipation points. This is the same reason why the Matari Ships have the "Wingy" bits. Space is far colder than the interior of the ship, and especially the power plants. Why not Create large areas that can use Heat Piping Technology to Radiate the heat over a larger area, and if it looks cool/scary in the process that is a bonus. -- Bastet's Organization Of Mining
Silver Night Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.04.16 21:09:00 - [12] We have spikes because we are awesome. -------------- The Clown Man. GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter
Ciarente Gallente White Rose Society	Posted - 2009.04.16 21:55:00 - [13] Aren't they just the way the nice Sanshas say a friendly hello?
Ganja Ree Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.04.16 22:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Per Bastet Reading over this I have noted that there is one Idea that has been ignored totally. Heat Dissipation points. This is the same reason why the Matari Ships have the "Wingy" bits. Space is far colder than the interior of the ship, and especially the power plants. Why not Create large areas that can use Heat Piping Technology to Radiate the heat over a larger area, and if it looks cool/scary in the process that is a bonus. Apologies, but space doesn't work like that. While it's very cold.It is also a vacuum. Which is the underlying principle a thermos functions by. Quote: I feel, I am, I am not. Am I?
Mr Reeth	Posted - 2009.04.17 17:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Ganja Ree Originally by: Per Bastet Reading over this I have noted that there is one Idea that has been ignored totally. Heat Dissipation points. This is the same reason why the Matari Ships have the "Wingy" bits. Space is far colder than the interior of the ship, and especially the power plants. Why not Create large areas that can use Heat Piping Technology to Radiate the heat over a larger area, and if it looks cool/scary in the process that is a bonus. Apologies, but space doesn't work like that. While it's very cold.It is also a vacuum. Which is the underlying principle a thermos functions by. Apologies but yes it can. I say can because these are not real ships so "does" didn't feel right. The heat generating parts are going to be in the deep interior of the ship right? You don't want your power reactor on the outside where it can be shot off do you? The rest of the ship os climate controlled because of the crew right? So if you don't want the reactor to cook your crew and systems it only makes sense to transfer the heat to the cold of space right? It would make no sense to devote any energy to cooling anything in a space ship if you can use all the cold that surrounds you at all times. You still don't buy this explanation? Well take a high end laptop outside in the cold, shut off the fans and play eve. Tell me if your lap burns after a few minutes.
Savasta	Posted - 2009.04.17 19:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Mr Reeth Originally by: Ganja Ree Originally by: Per Bastet Reading over this I have noted that there is one Idea that has been ignored totally. Heat Dissipation points. This is the same reason why the Matari Ships have the "Wingy" bits. Space is far colder than the interior of the ship, and especially the power plants. Why not Create large areas that can use Heat Piping Technology to Radiate the heat over a larger area, and if it looks cool/scary in the process that is a bonus. Apologies, but space doesn't work like that. While it's very cold.It is also a vacuum. Which is the underlying principle a thermos functions by. Apologies but yes it can. I say can because these are not real ships so "does" didn't feel right. The heat generating parts are going to be in the deep interior of the ship right? You don't want your power reactor on the outside where it can be shot off do you? The rest of the ship os climate controlled because of the crew right? So if you don't want the reactor to cook your crew and systems it only makes sense to transfer the heat to the cold of space right? It would make no sense to devote any energy to cooling anything in a space ship if you can use all the cold that surrounds you at all times. You still don't buy this explanation? Well take a high end laptop outside in the cold, shut off the fans and play eve. Tell me if your lap burns after a few minutes. The only problem is, there is no such thing as "cold", especially in space. Instead, there is a vacuum. Normally, heat would be moved by an atom giving kinetic energy (vibrations) to another atom. Since space is a vacuum, there are no atoms to move heat to. Instead, heat is moved by radiation. Primarily in the Infrared part of the electromagnetic spectrum, or in the spectrum of visible light, if the object has enough heat. This leads to my final point: The small surface area of the spikes on Sansha ships don't make for very efficient radiators, so it isn't very likely that they are used as such.
Mr Reeth	Posted - 2009.04.17 23:40:00 - [17] Crap... you're right.
Ganja Ree Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.04.18 00:16:00 - [18] Well we can at least rule out what they are not for. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and insinuate that the designer was a few frigates short of a blob in the cerebral stability departement. (IE: completely off of his rocker)
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.04.19 03:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Savasta Originally by: Mr Reeth Originally by: Ganja Ree Originally by: Per Bastet Reading over this I have noted that there is one Idea that has been ignored totally. Heat Dissipation points. This is the same reason why the Matari Ships have the "Wingy" bits. Space is far colder than the interior of the ship, and especially the power plants. Why not Create large areas that can use Heat Piping Technology to Radiate the heat over a larger area, and if it looks cool/scary in the process that is a bonus. Apologies, but space doesn't work like that. While it's very cold.It is also a vacuum. Which is the underlying principle a thermos functions by. Apologies but yes it can. I say can because these are not real ships so "does" didn't feel right. The heat generating parts are going to be in the deep interior of the ship right? You don't want your power reactor on the outside where it can be shot off do you? The rest of the ship os climate controlled because of the crew right? So if you don't want the reactor to cook your crew and systems it only makes sense to transfer the heat to the cold of space right? It would make no sense to devote any energy to cooling anything in a space ship if you can use all the cold that surrounds you at all times. You still don't buy this explanation? Well take a high end laptop outside in the cold, shut off the fans and play eve. Tell me if your lap burns after a few minutes. The only problem is, there is no such thing as "cold", especially in space. Instead, there is a vacuum. Normally, heat would be moved by an atom giving kinetic energy (vibrations) to another atom. Since space is a vacuum, there are no atoms to move heat to. Instead, heat is moved by radiation. Primarily in the Infrared part of the electromagnetic spectrum, or in the spectrum of visible light, if the object has enough heat. This leads to my final point: The small surface area of the spikes on Sansha ships don't make for very efficient radiators, so it isn't very likely that they are used as such. Microcorrugation (folding) could easily triple the radiation surface of those spikes. Couple it with integral heatconducting materials and it could work. In particular if it uses compression technology to keep the spikes hotter than the rest of the vessel. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
Ghost Hunter Naqam	Posted - 2009.04.19 06:45:00 - [20] Originally by: Esna Pitoojee Boarding lances. No, I'm serious. You knock a vessel's shields down, boil off a bit of the armor, and stick one of those spikes into a non-critical section, and you've got an easy boarding mechanism. Drop legions of True Slaves in, let them do their borg thing, and then pull the spike out and make off with your newly-won prize. Originally by: Esna Pitoojee let them do their borg thing, Is that in reference to some kind of theory about a Hive Mind, or if they use nanomachines for cybernizing? As far as I know neither of those exist/happen. ______ The Seven Events of the Apocalypse The fourth event is described by Macaper as ôthe appetite of nothing expands over the worldö;
Savasta	Posted - 2009.04.19 07:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Microcorrugation (folding) could easily triple the radiation surface of those spikes. Couple it with integral heatconducting materials and it could work. In particular if it uses compression technology to keep the spikes hotter than the rest of the vessel. The added surface area would help, but since at least half of the new surfaces are facing, in part, another surface, the effect would be dramatically reduced. Since the spikes are still round, they would behave almost identically, microcorrugation of not. Truly flat surfaces would also get little to no benefit from microcorrugation, for the same reason. That is, heat in a vacuum is emitted as light, not kinetic energy, so the added surface plays less of a role than sheer size. It's worth discussing both sides of the argument though, so feel free. I'm not quite sure what you mean by compression technology. Explain? The image that comes to my mind is similar to what is used by refrigerators. Which would work, but the low surface area of the spikes is still a problem.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.04.19 07:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Savasta I'm not quite sure what you mean by compression technology. Explain? The image that comes to my mind is similar to what is used by refrigerators. Which would work, but the low surface area of the spikes is still a problem. Yep, like a refrigerator. As for microcorrugation, at least half the surface would NOT face another surface. With a corrugation of >90 degrees there is at least a 41% increase in surface facing outwards (think of a surface made up of triangles where the "peak" is a 90 degree angle. None of the surfaces is directly facing another surface, giving us a classic pythagoran calculation, with the new outwards facing surface area being 1 divided by the square root of 2). Wouldn't it also be possible to increase the amount of radiation that isn't reabsorbed by having a high amount of reflectivity in the proper spectrum (the spectrum that it's emitting radiation in)? I mean, isn't the reason that the lunar modules is covered in a thin gold-foil that it has good heat conductivity, but high reflectivity? ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
Mithfindel Khanid Unionist Movement	Posted - 2009.04.19 09:59:00 - [23] Edited by: Mithfindel on 19/04/2009 10:00:12 I'm not a physist, but I do think that reflectivity is also tied on the ability to radiate. As in, charcoal doesn't reflect visible light all that well as tinfoil, but it does radiate a whole lot better than the foil. As such, unless there's some quite groovy physics involved that allows the other without totally screwing the other property, that quite doesn't work. (Conductivity alone doesn't equate ability to radiate.)
Anyura	Posted - 2009.04.19 22:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Sir Substance my guess was always that they were carona discharge points. when you have a perfect metal sphere, and you cahrge it, the electrical field is the same all the way around the ball. if you put a point on that ball though, the field peaks in intensity at the point. since sanshas ships are designed to be resistant to just aobut everything (according to the descriptions), i assumed that the spikes somehow helped dissipate the energy from lasers, EMP ammo and EM damage missiles etc. I think this is closest to the mark. Remember that Sansha ships are primarily shield tanking vessels - my guess would be that the spikes enhance the effectiveness of the shields. Off-topic, I've done a little bit of RP writing before (http://tanjita-eve.com/) but given my love of all things Sansha, I'd like to try and write a short story based around them. Any ideas on where to start? Would people take offence at it?
Ghost Hunter Naqam	Posted - 2009.04.20 03:21:00 - [25] Originally by: Anyura Off-topic, I've done a little bit of RP writing before (http://tanjita-eve.com/) but given my love of all things Sansha, I'd like to try and write a short story based around them. Any ideas on where to start? Would people take offence at it? There's a variety of points you can start, such as the rise of the Nation or during the fall at the Genocide. There's a lot of ambiguous information during both of these points, so it's largely player interpretation. Being the elitist person I am about nearly everything Sansha, well, it really depends on what you try to do in the short story. There are some issues I'm zealous against becoming accepted into Sansha canon, but I'm only one voice. I really can't say don't do anything because you're worried about causing offense, even if it gets on my nerves it's your view point about it. If there's any specific information you're aiming to find, the other loyalists (Naqam and White Rose Society) or myself could possibly help you, depending on what it is. ______ The Seven Events of the Apocalypse The fourth event is described by Macaper as ôthe appetite of nothing expands over the worldö;
Anyura	Posted - 2009.04.20 07:45:00 - [26] Edited by: Anyura on 20/04/2009 07:48:12 Edited by: Anyura on 20/04/2009 07:47:29 The idea I had was a big one and one that I know people would get upset about - the conversion process for turning someone into a Sansha slave. I spent a great deal of time last night thinking about how this could work and then it struck me that there is a method already established in EvE lore that would not only make this process valid but also potentially horrific for the subject involved. I'm going to start writing it this evening and will hopefully have it ready by tomorrow. EDIT - If possible, I would like to speak to the members of Naqam and White Rose as I'm writing it so that I can more accurately get a gist for the Sansha style of speech and behaviour, especially regarding True Slaves. Do you guys have public channels?
Ghost Hunter Naqam	Posted - 2009.04.20 08:34:00 - [27] Originally by: Anyura Edited by: Anyura on 20/04/2009 07:48:12 Edited by: Anyura on 20/04/2009 07:47:29 The idea I had was a big one and one that I know people would get upset about - the conversion process for turning someone into a Sansha slave. I spent a great deal of time last night thinking about how this could work and then it struck me that there is a method already established in EvE lore that would not only make this process valid but also potentially horrific for the subject involved. The conversion process has some better definitions to it. There seems to be a difference in quality and performance of a True Slave that's made with on-site conversion materials, and factory/laboratory assembled. By extension, there is obviously a different experience for each person and their conversion method. The little tidbits I've done have centered on the more positive aspects, such as it being a very pleasant time. Everyone expects horror, grimdark blood and nightmares so might as well try something else vov ______ The Seven Events of the Apocalypse The fourth event is described by Macaper as ôthe appetite of nothing expands over the worldö;
Anyura	Posted - 2009.04.20 09:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Ghost Hunter The conversion process has some better definitions to it. There seems to be a difference in quality and performance of a True Slave that's made with on-site conversion materials, and factory/laboratory assembled. By extension, there is obviously a different experience for each person and their conversion method. The little tidbits I've done have centered on the more positive aspects, such as it being a very pleasant time. Everyone expects horror, grimdark blood and nightmares so might as well try something else vov Well, I may as well explain what I had in mind. The story centres around a capsuleer, that has his ship destroyed before having his capsule brought on board a Sansha Nightmare. Through his camera drone he would see what is happening to him while a Sansha zealot explains the process. The first stage would be synaptic deprogramming of a very specific section of his memory - that which covers an early and critical stage of his training. The subject would then be forcably removed from his capsule, which as we know would cause a condition known as mind lock (see the Jovian Wet Grave for more info). This would give us a body with all the skills of an experienced capsuleer but without a personality to drive it. The addition of implants would give the zealot control over the body for whatever purpose they see fit. The horrific side of it would be that the personality trapped in the mind lock would be able to see all the things the True Slave would do but be powerless to stop it. After all, the conversion process (and the preliminary experiments) has to be repulsive by default to warrant an invasion by all four empires.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.04.20 17:25:00 - [29] Originally by: Anyura Originally by: Ghost Hunter The conversion process has some better definitions to it. There seems to be a difference in quality and performance of a True Slave that's made with on-site conversion materials, and factory/laboratory assembled. By extension, there is obviously a different experience for each person and their conversion method. The little tidbits I've done have centered on the more positive aspects, such as it being a very pleasant time. Everyone expects horror, grimdark blood and nightmares so might as well try something else vov Well, I may as well explain what I had in mind. The story centres around a capsuleer, that has his ship destroyed before having his capsule brought on board a Sansha Nightmare. Through his camera drone he would see what is happening to him while a Sansha zealot explains the process. The first stage would be synaptic deprogramming of a very specific section of his memory - that which covers an early and critical stage of his training. The subject would then be forcably removed from his capsule, which as we know would cause a condition known as mind lock (see the Jovian Wet Grave for more info). This would give us a body with all the skills of an experienced capsuleer but without a personality to drive it. The addition of implants would give the zealot control over the body for whatever purpose they see fit. The horrific side of it would be that the personality trapped in the mind lock would be able to see all the things the True Slave would do but be powerless to stop it. After all, the conversion process (and the preliminary experiments) has to be repulsive by default to warrant an invasion by all four empires. As I understand it: 1. The original Sansha procedure is horrific enough, stripping a person of their personality and replacing it with an artificial one. 2. Wether the person is mindlocked or not is irrelevant for the sansha procedure. Also there isn't a "second personality" left, as it's all rewritten. In fact the subject being mindlocked might be detrimental to the procedure as mindlock (as I understand it) introduces some sort of mental blockages that prevents the person from controlling his own body. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
MirrorGod Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2009.04.20 22:03:00 - [30] Everyone just shut up with your science, logic and facts. The spikes are extremely efficient for impaling the corpses of your enemies on, much like the incursus. That's all. </thread>

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