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Anyone doing WH sites with a moros?

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emf Amarr Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2009.04.12 06:06:00 - [1] Thinking it would be a cakewalk, I warped a pvp fitted moros into a class 5 anomaly and didn't manage to kill a single sleeper. I had to log off to save the ship but proceeded to have to self destruct it anyway because the WH closed while my probe alt was in a different system. Anyone doing these sleeper sites with capitals? I'm thinking of trying it again with some jamming or sniping support, maybe assigned fighters. Also, does the 6 sleeper BS spawn again if the capital warps out then back in? Would be much easier if I could warp out then warp back in at 0 to the sleepers. Do they spawn an extra 6 sleeper battleships for each wave?
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.04.12 06:44:00 - [2] So you're sending unsupported, Billion + ISK ships into wormhole space (Where anyone can attack anyone), against sleepers (Which spawn extra **** to BBQ you if you bring a capital), without your prober in system, and without any protection from the roving PVP gangs in wormholes.
Crimsonjade Amarr Secret Service	Posted - 2009.04.12 07:09:00 - [3] Originally by: Kahega Amielden So you're sending unsupported, Billion + ISK ships into wormhole space (Where anyone can attack anyone), against sleepers (Which spawn extra **** to BBQ you if you bring a capital), without your prober in system, and without any protection from the roving PVP gangs in wormholes. like thats a bad thing...........
Gamov Serenity.	Posted - 2009.04.12 07:46:00 - [4] i loled in rl
padraig animal Minmatar Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.04.12 11:18:00 - [5] your serious about taking again your capital in ?
Godpool	Posted - 2009.04.12 11:29:00 - [6] U can easily farm sleepers with 2 capitals if u do it right... The key is to get the capital ships about 50km apart so the sleeper AI is messed up... Then you deploy sentry drones and pop the sleepers that are the farthest away... When the sleepers hit one group of drones, they all scoop, then when they agro the other group, they all scoop, and then u rinse and repeat... 2 carriers are best here...
emf Amarr Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2009.04.12 11:40:00 - [7] Edited by: emf on 12/04/2009 11:43:39 To make myself feel better, it's only a half a bil loss after insurance. Not much more than an expensive command ship. :) Having to self destruct it is harsh though. Godpool have you tried this method? It would seem that 12 sleepers would be too much to tank. My tank could barely hold in siege mode against 10 slepers BS. Then again it only had 2 EANMs and DCU as resistance. How exactly does having 2 ships screw up the sleeper AI? They don't seem to do less damage at range so how does being 50km apart help? Would 2 moros do the trick? Ain't got no carriers. Oh, and it really isn't dangerous or anything. There really isn't anyone in the class 5-6 WHs and I would just log off the moment I saw combat probes on scan.
Kambiri Zoltana Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.12 11:48:00 - [8] Yesterday I was probing a class 6 wormhole when I discovered an opening to 0.0. Not much after some bs and assorted small ships started to fill the system and even an archon joined them. The BS seemed to stay there untill the archon appeared on scanner. I think as soon as the archon joined them I saw 5 bs wrecks and 1 bc wreck appear on the scanner. And 5 minutes later the archon was back on the 0.0 wormhole to jump out. They didn't say a thing in local, but they had their ass roasted.
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2009.04.12 14:53:00 - [9] Archived for lulz posterity.
Happatai	Posted - 2009.04.12 17:49:00 - [10] lol uratard
Karentaki Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.04.12 20:54:00 - [11] Originally by: emf Edited by: emf on 12/04/2009 11:43:39 To make myself feel better, it's only a half a bil loss after insurance. Not much more than an expensive command ship. :) Having to self destruct it is harsh though. Godpool have you tried this method? It would seem that 12 sleepers would be too much to tank. My tank could barely hold in siege mode against 10 slepers BS. Then again it only had 2 EANMs and DCU as resistance. How exactly does having 2 ships screw up the sleeper AI? They don't seem to do less damage at range so how does being 50km apart help? Would 2 moros do the trick? Ain't got no carriers. Oh, and it really isn't dangerous or anything. There really isn't anyone in the class 5-6 WHs and I would just log off the moment I saw combat probes on scan. You're either a reasonably competent troll, or a COMPLETE IDIOT! (needs more emphasis) 1) 500 mill could be MUCH better spent on something else. 2) If you can't figure out how to use 2 ships to mess with the sleepers, you're stupid. 3) Get a carrier. 4) It is obviously dangerous. You lost a Moros remember? 5) There ARE people in them, just not many. 6) Combat probes aren't the only way to find you Now please excuse me while I go and weep for humanity. Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
emf Amarr Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2009.04.12 22:19:00 - [12] Edited by: emf on 12/04/2009 22:23:15 Quote: 1) 500 mill could be MUCH better spent on something else. Like what, a pimped out PVP ship which would die in 20 seconds to a blob? Quote: 2) If you can't figure out how to use 2 ships to mess with the sleepers, you're stupid. Humour me, how DO you use 2 ships to mess with sleepers. If you're just thinking of the sleepers switching aggro between the two ships I don't think that's what he had in mind. Quote: 3) Get a carrier. Have you killed sleepers with a carrier? Quote: 4) It is obviously dangerous. You lost a Moros remember? Yes I lost it to a big mistake on my part which won't happen again. Quote: 5) There ARE people in them, just not many. That's what I said. Quote: 6) Combat probes aren't the only way to find you Core probes would be much tougher and give me even longer to ctrl-Q. Now seriously guys, please be constructive. Surely someone out there has experience with this. Also will warping out and warping back in spawn another wave?
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.04.13 01:01:00 - [13] Originally by: emf Now seriously guys, please be constructive. Surely someone out there has experience with this. Also will warping out and warping back in spawn another wave? Constructive? Ok. Don't use a siege weapon designed to take out immobile space stations to shoot at something as mobile and agile as battleships. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Some Advisor	Posted - 2009.04.13 01:47:00 - [14] and dont ctrl-q well. do it. you got aggro.. then i can find and pod you before you vanish please ctrl-q
emf Amarr Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2009.04.13 02:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: emf Now seriously guys, please be constructive. Surely someone out there has experience with this. Also will warping out and warping back in spawn another wave? Constructive? Ok. Don't use a siege weapon designed to take out immobile space stations to shoot at something as mobile and agile as battleships. A high skilled moros does more DPS than any carrier's fighters. That and I figure it has the ability to tank much more in siege mode and still be able to do dps unlike triage. NPCs do not give aggro. Hell, I don't even need to bother checking my directional scanner, could even ctrl Q when something appears on overview.
AtheistOfDoom Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.13 04:59:00 - [16] Originally by: emf Edited by: emf on 12/04/2009 22:23:15 Core probes would be much tougher and give me even longer to ctrl-Q. WUT!? And then, he killed the dog...
Barton Foley	Posted - 2009.04.13 05:11:00 - [17] OP is an idiot and a scammer, don't waste advice on him. If he wants to pewpew sleepers in dreads and then self-destruct to escape, by all means let him.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.04.13 10:58:00 - [18] Originally by: emf A high skilled moros does more DPS than any carrier's fighters. No. A high-skilled dread does more DPS against stations than any other ship in the game. Against anything else, their DPS is zero because they can't hit it. You could use drones, but so can every other ship in the game — and they can use their guns as well (and sleepers eat drones like popcorn). Again: it's a siege weapon, not a combat ship. Quote: That and I figure it has the ability to tank much more in siege mode and still be able to do dps unlike triage. You figured wrong. Siege weapon also reduces your tracking speed by a factor 13 (so you can't hit anyting that moves) and increases your lock-on speed by a factor of 4 (so you can't lock on to anything smaller than a station). So the extra tank in siege comes at the same cost as triage: you won't do any damage. And as you noticed, siege mode isn't enough to tank sleepers anyway becaue they've been purposefully designed to shred unsupported capships. This does not mean that a carrier will do any better — carriers are still capships and therefore useless on the front line in w-space. What you want is a battleship (or preferably two). It will do more damage, it will tank better, it will be able to use ewar modules, it will be able to keep its drones alive, and it will be generally able to protect itself and project more force against the sleepers. What you need is a small, mobile, versatile, self-sustaining, anti-everything ship. What you're using is a large, immobile, single-purpose, fleet-supported, anti-station ship. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Hafsteinn Oskar1 GIT-R-DUN Southern Connection	Posted - 2009.04.13 11:26:00 - [19] ok so to be constructive, using a carrier or dread is possible but not that efficient, the only 2 real reasons for using the dread / carrier is to escalate spawns on purpose (warp em in to get bigger bs spawns) and the other is to sit the carrier as far off your bs fleet for rr support (which isnt really necessary) wh's are not much todo with tank / dps (as long as you can break their tank) and instead 999999% about position and tactics
Destructor1792 Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.04.13 12:16:00 - [20] Edited by: Destructor1792 on 13/04/2009 12:16:41 Ignoring the obvious "kiddie" posts, taking a carrier to a WH was a baaad idea!! Esepcially with no support!! Sleepers like to pop drones, so straight away you're up FUBARR street as these are your primary source of DPS!! If I recall, sleepers will scale to whatever ship you bring in.. Bigger ships = more deadlier sleepers. And on a final note, NEVER EVER have your prober in a different system to the one your cap is in - for the obvious reason of what happened to yourself! You live and learn ______________________________________ Bringing The Fun Back [gold]I Have No Fear, That's your Problem[/go
Paraiyan	Posted - 2009.04.13 20:27:00 - [21] Originally by: Tippia A high-skilled dread does more DPS against stations than any other ship in the game. Against anything else, their DPS is zero because they can't hit it. You could use drones, but so can every other ship in the game You are forgetting the Moro's drone bonus. It easily does over 1000 dps with a set of heavy or sentry drones and can do 1250+ dps if you have maxed skills and fittings. The drones have no trouble hitting smaller targets like a BS. I believe that was the OP's whole point in specifying that it was a Moros he was taking into the WH and not some other dread. Originally by: Tippia Siege mode also reduces your tracking speed by a factor 13 (so you can't hit anyting that moves) and increases your lock-on speed by a factor of 4 (so you can't lock on to anything smaller than a station). So the extra tank in siege comes at the same cost as triage: you won't do any damage. Again, the Moro's drone bonus is the key. It can still hit small targets just fine in siege mode because of the drones, while any other dread(in siege) or carrier(in triage) does effectively zero DPS against a sub-capital target.
Arthor Dark	Posted - 2009.04.13 20:33:00 - [22] Edited by: Arthor Dark on 13/04/2009 20:33:23 I saw a carrier go up against 6 of those BS. They just shreaded the drones like nothing, he had a continuous line of new drones flying to replinish the swarm that he was attacking with. This was on a test server, and by the time he downed just one of those BS, he had gone through 80 drones.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.04.13 20:49:00 - [23] Originally by: Paraiyan You are forgetting the Moro's drone bonus. It easily does over 1000 dps with a set of heavy or sentry drones and can do 1250+ dps if you have maxed skills and fittings. The drones have no trouble hitting smaller targets like a BS. No, I'm not forgetting it — I'm saying it makes no useful difference. What the Moros does at full skills could be done with a BS (also at full skills… which you'll have if you can fly the Moros). In addition, a BS will not spawn extra Sleepers that screw you over; it can protect its drones from being popped; and unlike a "hello, I need a support fleet" dreadnought it is self-sustaining. A Moros offers no advantage over a well-sorted battleship but has numerous drawbacks and adds little needed extra difficulty. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Paraiyan	Posted - 2009.04.13 21:05:00 - [24] Originally by: Tippia What the Moros does at full skills could be done with a BS (also at full skillsà which you'll have if you can fly the Moros). In addition, a BS will not spawn extra Sleepers that screw you over; it can protect its drones from being popped; and unlike a "hello, I need a support fleet" dreadnought it is self-sustaining. A Moros offers no advantage over a well-sorted battleship but has numerous drawbacks and adds little needed extra difficulty. While I agree that BSes have their place, the Moros shouldn't be discounted. It has quite a few advantages over a BS, not least of which is a huge HP buffer, multi-thousand DPS sustained tank, ability(through drones) to target everything from BSes to frigates while pumping out more DPS than almost any BS can output at range. It's a very valid option. Also, you mention that cap ships draw in heavier spawns in WHs. That can be a good(read: profitable) thing...
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.04.13 21:23:00 - [25] Originally by: Paraiyan It has quite a few advantages over a BS, not least of which is a huge HP buffer, multi-thousand DPS sustained tank, This advantage is counteracted by the Sleepers bringing in enough DPS to cut through that buffer and tank in very short order. Quote: ability(through drones) to target everything from BSes to frigates while pumping out more DPS than almost any BS can output at range. Only within drone range (which isn't much) and against targets that, as mentioned, eat drones for breakfast unless you distract them and/or protect them… and the Moros isn't quite up to that task. It lacks the fitting capabilities and versatility to do everything that needs to be done against sleepers. Quote: Also, you mention that cap ships draw in heavier spawns in WHs. That can be a good(read: profitable) thing... It can be if you're capable of surviving that extra spawn and kill the ships. As the OP demonstrates, that's not the case (well, unless you have a support fleet — as you should with a Dread — but in that case you might as well leave the dread at home). And then there's the simple matter of utility. The combat ability per ton is apalling and that tonnage could be far better used to bring an Orca with supplies and a small BS fleet that would cut through the Sleepers like butter. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
emf Amarr Knights Of the Black Sun	Posted - 2009.04.13 23:11:00 - [26] See, the thing is that more people = drastically less isk. It is the reason why people are complaining that level 4 missions still give more isk even though a class 5 radar site has the potential to make a billion or more . The moros does close to 2000 DPS with guns thrown in (if it doesn't have to enter siege). This is more than 3 very well fitted and skilled long ranged battleships. If not for the sleepers cheating with ridiculous damage against large sig radius (thanks CCP!), it would be able to tank a dozen advanced sleeper BS without needing to enter siege. What I'm thinking of right now is to warp the moros in, trigger the 6 battleships, warp back out or log off if tackled. get a warp in point at point blank, warp back in and have an alt support by jamming at 200km. I heard from another thread that ECM makes the sleepers go crazy so I'm thinking i'd fit 2 ECM modules on the dread to draw aggro away from the drones... Of course all this wont work if warping out and back in triggers another spawn of 6 battleships.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.04.14 05:43:00 - [27] Originally by: emf The moros does close to 2000 DPS with guns thrown in (if it doesn't have to enter siege). No it doesn't — the targets are too small. The only damage you'll see is fron the drones (until they go pop). Quote: If not for the sleepers cheating with ridiculous damage against large sig radius (thanks CCP!) That's not the sleepers cheating — that's just how the game works. It works the other way around as well, which is why your DPS figure isn't even close to reality. It is also why you shouldn't use siege weapons as combat vessels. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in =v=… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2009.04.14 23:32:00 - [28] Intrigued also how well a Moros based op would work. * GOAL Run high-end WH encounters with just one or two persons, with 2-3 skilled alt characters available per each person. * MOROS WH benefits - Drone damage with drone rigs (3.50 times the normal drone DPS and hit points; sentries for 1000-1250 DPS) - Capital Remote Repairing - High enough buffer to use CTRL-Q as escape method (sucks, but until CCP fixes it, fairest to let everyone abuse it) - Guns (probably blasters?) for extra DPS - Siege mode available, if really needed * MOROS WH drawbacks - Limited maneuverability; they use WH tonnage up fast, and aren't allowed through all WHs - Might need to base on single good system -> increased danger of organized PVP attacks - Sentries are problematic with capitals: deploying them often leaves some of them slightly out of scoop range, and maneuverings for pickup is very slow. Need to think more about using two Moros, or Moros + Carrier, as core for such op. Support could include alt ships requiring less attention, like CovOps/Rorqual/Command/Falcons/Transports -Lasse so far enjoying the social aspects of WH excursions
Orgasmotron	Posted - 2009.04.15 03:48:00 - [29] I've yet to see any evidence that bringing caps into a sleeper encounter is anything except a disaster. I've heard tons of stories of multple carriers being shredded in minutes. I've not heard a single report from anyone credible that they took a carrier or dread in and it helped. CCP obviously wants to keep capitals out of wormholes. Take the hint. Of course it's extremely tempting to try and find out how to do the hardest plexes with a minimum of people so that the rewards are worth the effort. So far I haven't heard of anyone with a reliable repeatable strategy to do this. The only people I know who are regularly doing the deadly systems are taking in 10-man or bigger fleets of RR BS, with 3 or more logistics ships in support. It can be a lot of fun but financially it's still more profitable to do the old content.
rubico1337	Posted - 2009.04.15 04:56:00 - [30] this... has... to... be.. a.. troll.....

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