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Onus Mian
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.04.15 11:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Onus Mian on 15/04/2009 11:49:51
Fishing blockade
When will they learn that they do not own the sea or its resources? When will they realise that fishing quoters are not being put in place to undermine them personally but try and stop the collapse of numerous fish populations and other species which rely upon them? Do they really think that causing mass disruption and ****ing off a whole load of people and companies just trying to get on with their lives is going to foster popular support for their cause?
As it stands political organisations like the EU when given advice by fisheries scientists are only interested in hearing the upper limit of quoters is because they don't want to upset fishermen too much. I suspect that what many fisheries scientists would like to see are even smaller quoters, whole areas of sea where fishing is banned (MPA's), fisherman having to land whatver they catch (As is the case in Norway I believe) rather than throwing by-catch (Dead or dying by this point) back into the sea because its not part of their quota which forces them to be more selective about where and when they fish.
Unsustainable practices should be clamped down upon regardless of the short term economic impacts. Allowing them to persist is merely postponing the same economic impacts until a time when the system being exploited is no longer able to recover. Fisheries scientists are already concerned that some populations will never recover.
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Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
- Douglas Adams
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Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2009.04.15 12:11:00 -
[2]
I agree entirely, but they wouldn't be fishermen if they were geniuses.
In before Ralara. |
Larkonis Trassler
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2009.04.15 15:55:00 -
[3]
Lolfrance...
I can't believe the French government allows this sort of stuff to happen. Any time some union gets a bee in it's bonnet about something they hold 'le strike', not only do they stop what they're doing but they make damn sure to shut the country down for a day or two. Striking seems to be a national passtime.
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Xen Gin
Solar Excavations Ultd.
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.15 16:03:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Larkonis Trassler
Lolfrance...
Striking seems to be a national passtime.
The Brits Queue, the French QQ.
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.15 17:13:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Xen Gin
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler
Lolfrance...
Striking seems to be a national passtime.
The Brits willingly bend over to take an arse-raping from the government, the French go ape-**** at the slightest provocation, and chop people's heads off if it gets REALLY bad.
Fixed. Less catchy, more accurate.
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Onus Mian
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.04.15 17:32:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Onus Mian on 15/04/2009 17:36:53
Edited by: Onus Mian on 15/04/2009 17:36:15
Edited by: Onus Mian on 15/04/2009 17:34:35
Originally by: ReaperOfSly
Originally by: Xen Gin
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler
Lolfrance...
Striking seems to be a national passtime.
The Brits willingly bend over to take an arse-raping from the government, the French go ape-**** at the slightest provocation, and chop people's heads off if it gets REALLY bad.
Fixed. Less catchy, more accurate.
As a people the British tend to see civil obedience as a virtue that serves to keep things running relatively smoothly the majority of the populace. That doesn't mean we don't engage in protest and in the past we have had rebelled against what we consider unfair treatment such as when we blockaded the refineries in protest to rising fuel prices. Generally speaking such actions ride on a wave of public support or at worse indifference and protests stop when they start to become a major hinderance. While sometimes I wish we were more like the french in their approach to defending their rights and whatever but its fairly obvious now that our government doesn't have even the faintest idea of what the general populace thinks and probably wouldn't care if it did.
Anyway this has wandered off my original point which was more concerned about the ecological impacts of European fisheries.
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Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
- Douglas Adams
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FOl2TY8
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.04.15 17:39:00 -
[7]
If someone came into your work and said that you are no longer allowed to do this because it damages the environment you would probably be pretty pissed. It's the way it is with humans, you can't make everyone happy and the survival of our species is not good enough reason to TAKE OUR JOBS!!!!!!!!!!
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This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Thorliaron
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.04.15 17:55:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Thorliaron on 15/04/2009 17:55:51
Oh the french are on strike, what a suprise!, best thing about France is the sea between it and the uk.
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Sniper Wolf18
Gallente
A Pretty Pony Princess
General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.15 18:31:00 -
[9]
Somone needs to get to their agent and sort out the blockade, srsly i hear the french drop epicz lewtz
And to finish, thank you for reading my sig
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If you are still reading i would probably hav posted by now |
Digital Solaris
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Posted - 2009.04.15 21:50:00 -
[10]
It has always been like this in the EU, upset farmers, upset fishermen, upset construction workers and so forth. |
ArmedSolid
Caldari
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.15 23:08:00 -
[11]
Cache cleared. |
ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.15 23:20:00 -
[12]
OP is on good track
but there is other issue this protection rules are for the future and ppl need better income, if this ppl get the needed income now they respect the protection rules
btw ***** vagina .... why the forum filter is sexist ?
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Onus Mian
Amarr
Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.15 23:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: ArmedSolid
Originally by: Brea Lafail
I agree entirely, but they wouldn't be fishermen if they were geniuses.
Bit harsh dont you think ! please keep your discriminations to yourself ,not all who browse these forums are rocket scientists in the making ,
As like myself i was born into fishing it,s an industry and industries center around towns and area,s consuming most of the population ,i guess miners and steelworkers are beneath you too ? If an industry is in your blood it,s hard to let it go ,
If youd like an education in these fields im sure i can take you to sea with me for 12 days to roll your guts out, or im sure there,s a miner to take you for a shift underground ,you might then show a bit more respect !
As for the french ,they strike all the time ,there government listens to there concerns after action is taken ,if the system works you do it again
As for us in the uk ,if strike action were to be taken court summons would arrive along with hefty fines creating more unemployment ! it,s not in our interest to strike
Choosing a career in an industry thats ready to collapse on the basis of nostalgia and an unwillingness to seek alternative unemployment isn't a good idea. I can see how family tradition is a strong incentive but just because the rest of your family does something (Most my family are engineers) it doesn't mean you have to follow in their footsteps (I'm a biologist), especially when your families choice of career has no future.
I don't know about the other poster but I do have respect for the hard work which fishermen but I won't support an unsustainable industry solely on the basis that its a tough job.
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Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
- Douglas Adams
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Another Forum'Alt
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.15 23:24:00 -
[14]
The French are just lazy communists who are always on strike.
BECAUSE OF FALCON.
Guide to forum posting |
ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.15 23:27:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Another Forum'Alt
The French are just lazy communists who are always on strike.
more country's should be like France
btw ***** vagina .... why the forum filter is sexist ?
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.16 00:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: ceaon
Originally by: Another Forum'Alt
The French are just lazy communists who are always on strike.
more country's should be like France
YES!! All the men should be gay! That would teach the women to not be stuck up *****es and we don't need 'em! (Drunk posting)
Pomp FTW!!! |
Thorliaron
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.04.16 00:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ceaon
Originally by: Another Forum'Alt
The French are just lazy communists who are always on strike.
more country's should be like France
Then we would get invaded all the time and never get any work done because we would all be on strike or have our minoritys roiting through our capital cities every few months, no thnx
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.16 00:28:00 -
[18]
Acutally, in my drunk state... if they blockaded the harbor and I had to get in/out I'd just go ahead flank and good luck anyone in front of me 
Pomp FTW!!! |
ArmedSolid
Caldari
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.16 00:47:00 -
[19]
Cache cleared. |
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.16 00:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: ArmedSolid
Choosing a career in an industry thats ready to collapse on the basis of nostalgia and an unwillingness to seek alternative unemployment isn't a good idea. I can see how family tradition is a strong incentive but just because the rest of your family does something (Most my family are engineers) it doesn't mean you have to follow in their footsteps (I'm a biologist), especially when your families choice of career has no future.
I don't know about the other poster but I do have respect for the hard work which fishermen but I won't support an unsustainable industry solely on the basis that its a tough job.
Quote:
It,s good to hear someone has there feet under the table and i hope you prosper with it, but there,s still plenty of want to be biologists with degree,s especially marine biologists floating around without employment, the southwests full of them two of which have returned to fishing as a means of survival ,fishings not tough it,s just a way of life myself and my friends rarely complain about going to work unless there,s a hangover involved or about finances ,
The way i see it ,fishermen and scientists will always disagree as each one,s threatening the others way of life ,
The fish is there to be caught thats why there,s uproar about fishermen discarding certain species by the tonne (which we are forced to do) ,Decommisioning is the way forward there just need,s to be a fair distribution of funds to make us lay down our arms
My main's alliance hates your alliance
Pomp FTW!!! |
Gin G
Halls Of Valhalla
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Posted - 2009.04.16 01:07:00 -
[21]
damm frenchys someone send a warship over there have them running for the white flag of surrender AGAIN
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Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2009.04.16 01:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Onus Mian
Choosing a career in an industry thats ready to collapse on the basis of nostalgia and an unwillingness to seek alternative unemployment isn't a good idea. I can see how family tradition is a strong incentive but just because the rest of your family does something (Most my family are engineers) it doesn't mean you have to follow in their footsteps (I'm a biologist), especially when your families choice of career has no future.
I don't know about the other poster but I do have respect for the hard work which fishermen but I won't support an unsustainable industry solely on the basis that its a tough job.
Short term political and economic gain has no place in the implimenting of long term policies intended to protect vulnerable resources.
Agree 100%.
If I was to follow the traditional career of my community, I would have got a job on the oil sands straight out of high school, but I knew that one day the oil industry would go **** up, and it did, and I laughed.
In before Ralara. |
Onus Mian
Amarr
Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.16 09:28:00 -
[23]
Originally by: ArmedSolid
It,s good to hear someone has there feet under the table and i hope you prosper with it, but there,s still plenty of want to be biologists with degree,s especially marine biologists floating around without employment, the southwests full of them two of which have returned to fishing as a means of survival ,fishings not tough it,s just a way of life myself and my friends rarely complain about going to work unless there,s a hangover involved or about finances ,
The way i see it ,fishermen and scientists will always disagree as each one,s threatening the others way of life ,
The fish is there to be caught thats why there,s uproar about fishermen discarding certain species by the tonne (which we are forced to do) ,Decommisioning is the way forward there just need,s to be a fair distribution of funds to make us lay down our arms
I have two degree's in Marine Biology so I know all about the difficulties in getting a job in that area but you've just got to keep on trying, even if it means doing something completely unrelated in the meantime to pay the bills.
As for the confict between scientists and fishermen I think you've got it wrong. While I can understand why fishermen resent scientists who they see as undermining their industry the scientists jobs are not threatened by the the fishermen. Ultimately the scientists are in the best position to offer advice on the use of these resources and if they feel that there is a desperate need to curtail fishing then so be it. Its not good for the fishermen but it wouldn't be the first time that ecological priorities have forced industries to change their practices because they are ultimately destructive in the long term.
The main problem we have is that the general public, politicians, and even fishermen do not fully appreciate the implications of current fishing techniques and technology on the ecology of the oceans and seas. Scientists do but their advice is only implimented after being filtered through politicians (Why on earth are they in a position of authority when they know bugger all?) who have their own personal interests at heart.
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Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
- Douglas Adams
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2009.04.16 10:21:00 -
[24]
The French are terrible. They drink wine, cheese and have never had a Frenchman seek asylum in another European country.
The Brits, on the other hand, are far more civil. The Brits undertake civil obedience and have actually had people flee the country and seek political asylum in another European country. The great result is that the Brits have actually achieved nothing more than remain feudal, other than obtain the reputation as great lazy whiners. Aren't the Brits great?
I have lived in both countries and respect the French, they at least stand up for their rights and fight for them.
The Brits, on the other hand, are like sheep; they make great food but I have no respect for them otherwise.
Putting embarrassing ignorance and truth aside the simple truth of the matter is that none of these fishermen have ever thought of trading their boats in for fish farms. The EU should impose even harsher quota's on these people as their industry is a waste of money and time, why have boats when farms are far more efficient? The fact that these people cling to archaic forms of money making doesn't mean that the seas should be emptied but you tell politicians that. Stupidity, greed and short sightedness rule their policies.
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Onus Mian
Amarr
Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.16 10:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Super Whopper
Putting embarrassing ignorance and truth aside the simple truth of the matter is that none of these fishermen have ever thought of trading their boats in for fish farms. The EU should impose even harsher quota's on these people as their industry is a waste of money and time, why have boats when farms are far more efficient? The fact that these people cling to archaic forms of money making doesn't mean that the seas should be emptied but you tell politicians that. Stupidity, greed and short sightedness rule their policies.
You know what they feed the fish in fish farms? Fish caught at sea so there goes that arguement. Fish farms also mess up coastal waters.
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Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
- Douglas Adams
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Grimpak
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards
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Posted - 2009.04.16 10:56:00 -
[26]
while I can see both sides of the argument, you guys need to just know a simple thing: fishing is not a job, it's a way of life, and many of them would prefer to die than just go for another thing.
while the traditional fisherman, the ones that go on those small boats in the early hours of the morning and return late, are, indeed a dying breed, the problem with overfishing here is not the traditional fisherman, but the freakin' huge ships that can pretty much catch entire schools of them.
those are the ones that created this situation by overfishing.
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Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Fortorn Lonshanks
Exploratory Technologies
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2009.04.16 12:12:00 -
[27]
hahahahaha that was the funniest thing ive seen in a while. Who knew unarmed net boats could be so dangerous
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Vak'ran
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Posted - 2009.04.16 12:19:00 -
[28]
Yeah, sure blame the fishermen, because when an industries' upper management fails the fishermen are to blame? This union messmaking is what happens when people are hurt in their income, in the amount of bread on the table.
The OP suggests an impressive ammount of naivety on the fishemen's part in his first few lines, and while he shows some insight in who actually is to blame in the next paragraph - he decided pressing 'post topic' when what he just typed loaded it all on the people doing the job, to be a good idea.
Well here's a suggestion, the overtaxed fisheries are as much the fault of fishermen as anthropogenic CO2 accumulation in the atmosphere the fault of truck drivers. The problem is not caused by fishermen, the problem is caused by fisheries industry managing bodies and local / EU gevernments. As the OP mentioned himself any specialist opinion is traditionally met with a 'oh so it isnt critical yet?' followed by a swift 'fish away boys!'.
At the point where the word critical is part of the advice they proceed to take insufficient measures. This all goes on to the point where they need to clamp down hard in order to keep the industry from failing completely. Where they could have been allowing fishing at sustainable yield for half a century, things have proceeded to a point where the fisherman can no longer afford the property of his boat.
You would probaly find this poetic justice, since you so readily confuse the worker with the ones responsible, but in reality your elected local and EU governments are to blame.
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Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forums. |
Onus Mian
Amarr
Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.16 12:55:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Onus Mian on 16/04/2009 13:01:51
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Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
- Douglas Adams
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Vak'ran
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Posted - 2009.04.16 13:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Onus Mian
I'm not blaming just the fishermen but the industry as a whole for the current state of both commercial and non-commercial species. Naturally any attempt to limit the impact of this industry on the seas and oceans is going to hit those that work on the fishing vessels of the processing facilities onshore the most in terms of loss of income and jobs but thats is unavoidable.
Who is actually to blame is a telling statement. You're basically saying that governments and the EU are to blame for not controlling the fishing industry earlier on with more stringent measures? So the fishing industry has no responsiblity for its own actions and is incapable of self regulation?
A poor comparison. Collapsing fish stocks are the result of over fishing whereas increasing CO2 has innumerable sources making it foolish to blame lorry drivers for observed changes. Well as I said its an industry problem which includes fishermen. Fishermen are as equally unwillling to listen to scientific advice as politicians because in both cases their first priority is money. I refuse to accept that the fishermen can claim ignorance when surely they have been noticing that is has been getting more difficult to fill their hold with each passing season.
I doubt the fishing industry would have accepted regulations neccessary to make fishing sustainable all those years back. That the number of fishing ships was much greater back then alone would have meant that in keeping to strict quotas would have resulted in a large number of fishermen losing their jobs. The bottom line is that the industry while profitable is unsustainable.
The worker is not free from responsiblity. When fishermen started to notice that they were having difficulties in catching fish they should have demanded self-regulation within their industry to ensure the future of fishing. Instead they rallied against attempts of regulation by organisations outside their industry.
I'm not unsympathetic to the position that fishermen find themselves in but neither can you make policies on the basis on job retention when there are far more important issues at stake such as the conditions of the seas.
Granted, the CO2 levels were a cheap shot, but it was intended to emphesize the distance the actual fishermen are from their governing bodies, being the industry management's self regularion and governments in concert. As you are a marine biologist you should be aware of this.
Yes fishermen are part of the industry and thus share a measure of responsibility, but it is very small compared to that on the shoulders of the governing institutes and I consider laying it at their feet a very cheap shot from your side.
The individualistic approach of the matter I think is the core of the problem. The influential fisheries management bodies cater very strongly to expansion of the industry in a short-sighted manner. Government bodies allow(ed) for this expansion in a traditional and even more short sighted subsidy structure. Both of these parties, who are carrying the largest responsibility in the matter, fail to recognize how groups of people react negatively to regulation de facto, and have thus allowed the situation to spiral out to a point where the measures to be taken are way harsher, hurting the workers even more.
In the end the same individualistic appreciation of the current problems lead to the fishermen themselves receiving a negative public image, which they are not due themselves. Your post is typical of inflammatory remarks aimed at the wrong focal group.
For the record, while I am a marine microbiologist/climatologist, I also have some background in these matters, and therefore feel I must impress on you which party is in my opinion receiving undue negative attention, at the benefit of those that actually fail at the international management level. You'll also understand that I consider the (ninja edited) whaling remark even more of a cheap shot.
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Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forums. |
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