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New Stealth Bombers, Opinions?

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SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2009.04.16 16:21:00 - [31] Edited by: SurrenderMonkey on 16/04/2009 16:25:11 Edited by: SurrenderMonkey on 16/04/2009 16:24:52 Originally by: Adaera Originally by: SurrenderMonkey Originally by: Relaed The one change they needed to make to the Stealth Bomber was made - real stealth ability with the covert cloak, back the way it was when it was first brought to the game. However, the ship is no longer a bomber, they changed it to close range, slow ass torpedoes. If you think anyone is going to waste their money on that ship now, because you have to decloak and fire in short range of any ship a Torpedo can actually hit - forget it. You are dead meat. They made the Stealth Bomber another recon ship - thanks CCP, you still can't get it right. Fail. How is 60-130km "close range"? How did you get torps to 130km? I haven't even looked at the numbers, but I've seen a few people in a few different threads (including this one) post that and I haven't seen anyone refute it yet, so, being a lazy bastard, I'm just assuming it's right until someone says otherwise (or until EFT updates). Edit: This, apparently, is the source of that number: http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=4_16&page=1 --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp
Cortana AI	Posted - 2009.04.16 16:25:00 - [32] Roaming gangs will probably see an increased use, and as far as scouts, if you dont want a 200mil Recon to be your eyes SB's are now extremely viable. I expect to see many video's on youtube of OMFGWTFBBQ 50 SB's uncloak and insta pop a BS
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2009.04.16 16:27:00 - [33] Originally by: Cortana AI I expect to see many video's on youtube of OMFGWTFBBQ 50 SB's uncloak and insta pop a BS try a gang of 50 bombers portaled in by a black ops 5 jumps away, then one vollying a BS
Adaera	Posted - 2009.04.16 16:34:00 - [34] Originally by: TimMc Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Adaera How did you get torps to 130km? Javs, range rigs? How? Can barely get Javlins to 65km with a Raven. This. And bombers have 1 less rig slot than a Raven... ___________________ I for one welcome our new bee overlords
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2009.04.16 16:38:00 - [35] Assuming the stats haven't changed since sisi, at lvl 5 cov ops it's 1.5x flight time and 2x velocity. At all 5s... Jav flight time: 9 (* 1.5) = 13.5 s Jav velocity: 4753 (* 2) = 9506 m/s 13.5 * 9506 = 128,331m Add a hydraulic bay thruster and it's 147,580m --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2009.04.16 16:39:00 - [36] Patch notes: "Stealth Bombers now have a flight time and velocity bonus to torpedoes"
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.16 16:39:00 - [37] Originally by: TimMc Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Adaera How did you get torps to 130km? Javs, range rigs? How? Can barely get Javlins to 65km with a Raven. Failed to read bonuses?
Adaera	Posted - 2009.04.16 16:39:00 - [38] Originally by: Dr Fighter Originally by: Cortana AI I expect to see many video's on youtube of OMFGWTFBBQ 50 SB's uncloak and insta pop a BS try a gang of 50 bombers portaled in by a black ops 5 jumps away, then one vollying a BS I saw a vid on youtube of something like that ages ago but lost it Huuuuuge bomber blob gate camp, was insane. ___________________ I for one welcome our new bee overlords
Orions Pirate	Posted - 2009.04.16 17:10:00 - [39] So any suggestions about a setup for these mean machines?
Aluin Chaput Caldari Infernal RetrIbution	Posted - 2009.04.16 17:18:00 - [40] I really like the changes. I am a bit worried about what a gang of them will do to my Drake, but at the same time, it spices things up. I think Jerico fraction is going to have a field day and start trying to blow up more dreads with SB fleets... SBs are what they should have been the entire time. Mini Uboats in space. I also love that bombing is a valid tactic now.

Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.04.16 17:19:00 - [41] Originally by: Orions Pirate So any suggestions about a setup for these mean machines? They've had their fittings changed a bit, so tricky atm. I would suggest sensor damps + a rapier in gang or target painters + an arazu in gang.
Aceru Gallente Apellon	Posted - 2009.04.16 17:34:00 - [42] I was using my bomber to rat in lowsec before this update, honestly. Never been in factional warfare or any of that. Kind of sad to see getting a good cloak speed requires cloaking 4 but I guess its worth the wait. I won't be able to rat with it a lot now except against battleships. That'll be fun. Originally by: Vall Kor If you're in a fair fight, you didn't plan it properly.
AK Archangel Warhamsters Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.04.16 18:22:00 - [43] Ok i think CCP forget change cargo size .... not so much ammo ...
Abram Enroch	Posted - 2009.04.16 18:56:00 - [44] Edited by: Abram Enroch on 16/04/2009 18:56:48 - recloaking bonus gone (you are sitting duck for 15 secs, no more blinky fire) - as a result, you have to fit in propulsion mod now (1 med slot gone) - cloaked velocity bonus gone (even if you succeed to cloak, alive after 15 secs, you are not safe now, so easy to be decloaked at 100 m/S) TBH, i dont give an eff about the weapon changes, they can be adapted.. But the above points have completely ruined this ship IMO. The only way I can see they'd be of any use is ganging 10 of them, ganking some guy, losing 2-3 in the way. SB =/= Stealth Bomber SB = Suicide Bomber Small gang warfare? Pfft.. These changes will only encourage the blob, sadly. I'd happily still fit the Imp.Cloak II instead of a Covops for one, only if the points I mentioned were changed back to the way they used to be.
Daquaris Caldari Novus Aevum Transport and Industries Novus Aevum	Posted - 2009.04.16 19:37:00 - [45] Originally by: Abram Enroch Edited by: Abram Enroch on 16/04/2009 18:56:48 - cloaked velocity bonus gone (even if you succeed to cloak, alive after 15 secs, you are not safe now, so easy to be decloaked at 100 m/S) With my admittedly crap covops/cloak skills, my nemesis still seems able to sustain 316m/s cloaked.
Hav0cide Caldari Bureau of Somnium Operations	Posted - 2009.04.16 19:45:00 - [46] Some much needed changes. Though they need to invent some tougher/different covert ships and such to give a bit more variety.
Opertone Caldari Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.04.16 19:52:00 - [47] I think that AFs and SB have become fun again, there is motivation to fly them Can't wait till they do the same to Destroyers and certain faction cruisers
Cruentiorus Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:05:00 - [48] Originally by: Abram Enroch Edited by: Abram Enroch on 16/04/2009 18:56:48 - recloaking bonus gone (you are sitting duck for 15 secs, no more blinky fire) - as a result, you have to fit in propulsion mod now (1 med slot gone) - cloaked velocity bonus gone (even if you succeed to cloak, alive after 15 secs, you are not safe now, so easy to be decloaked at 100 m/S) TBH, i dont give an eff about the weapon changes, they can be adapted.. But the above points have completely ruined this ship IMO. The only way I can see they'd be of any use is ganging 10 of them, ganking some guy, losing 2-3 in the way. SB =/= Stealth Bomber SB = Suicide Bomber Small gang warfare? Pfft.. These changes will only encourage the blob, sadly. I'd happily still fit the Imp.Cloak II instead of a Covops for one, only if the points I mentioned were changed back to the way they used to be. Are you daft? 100m/s, are you fitting cargo rigs or something? my Purifier does a base 300+ since patch... You can do all 100% of your speed with cov ops cloak. Yes 15s delay blows, but i can warp in on a ratting raven or Drake, hit an AB II, orbit at 20km and plow away with my torps. Watch out for light drones, call it a day.
Nalena Arlath	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:13:00 - [49] Stealth bombers get 100+km range because their torps get flight time + velocity bonuses. As most should know, especially if you fly in a carebear raven, missile range = flight time x velocity. L2Read ship bonuses.
Abram Enroch	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:20:00 - [50] My apologies.. I had the Improved cloak on, and was shocked to see the cloaked velocity bonus gone.

Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:26:00 - [51] Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 16/04/2009 20:26:44 Originally by: Abram Enroch - cloaked velocity bonus gone (even if you succeed to cloak, alive after 15 secs, you are not safe now, so easy to be decloaked at 100 m/S) ... I'd happily still fit the Imp.Cloak II instead of a Covops for one, only if the points I mentioned were changed back to the way they used to be. In case you didn't realize, the CovOps cloak doesn't have the same velocity penalties that the other cloaks do. Previously, with CovOps IV you moved as fast as uncloaked and at CovOps V you got a slight bonus whereas now you move at the same speed all the time. Keep in mind too that Bombers got their base speed buffed, so the only people going slower, and even then just a little bit, are pilots who had CovOps V. (EDIT: You posted your realization while I was typing this; not trying to beat a dead horse) The number of people who don't realize that the new bombers are pretty much every bit as good as the old ones, and better, really staggers me. Sure they won't be able to one-volley un-attentive frigates from 150km anymore, but they'll be able to do gobs of damage to non-frigates from 80-100km, warp while cloaked, and have better fitting. The one complaint that I hear from people that I somewhat agree with is the 'wasting' of skill points that went into Cruise Missile specific skills (i.e. Cruise Missiles, Cruise Missile Spec., Guided Missile Precision); for general combat pilots it's not a huge deal but for people (like me) who have CovOps alts who only trained missile skills specifically for the stealth bomber, it's annoying. CCP may very well remove CM specific rigs from bombers if you petition it, but I highly doubt they'll ever refund skill points. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Mad0ne Caldari Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2009.04.16 20:51:00 - [52] Originally by: Mad0ne Actually stealthbombers are now real mean 0.0 ratting machines. About small roaming gang, well.. one scramming jamming falcon + 2 bombers POP-ed (all skills level 5) tanked abbaddon really, I mean realllly fast and that all while using T1 launchers and ammo. I tihnk that we will be seeing much kitsune + 2 bombers gangs soon. Oke I¦ve tested bomber now whole time in real situations... aaand I really have to take my words back. 0.0 ratting forget it... if you bump into roids, ur done! If you go against Angel rats or any other race whose ships fly faster than 500 m/s = no torpedo damage at all. Just doesnt work.... Now gatecamps n stuff.. anything worth shooting at is maybe just maybe battlecruiser and then bs sised ships. Anything smaller can speed tank torps or just sig radius is so small that torps do almost no damage. About bombers in fleets... No not going to happen, In a huge fleet you dont need that much speed and cloaking ability, bombers do 3/4 of ravens damage so... and cant remote repair or tank. Random interceptor/force recon/af/interdictor/whatever crusier will instapop bomber. About taking bomber to roam.. well there is no point :\ taking bomber means that you only go after ratting battleships and nothing else so why take on long trip if you can take some other fluffy crap and kill basically anything that you encounter. I mean.. if like 6 taranises can pop orca and kronos, theres no need for such ship as sb.. not at all! Overally CCP came up with idea to make bomber interesting for 5 minutes until you realise that now its TOTALLY useless. By the way random bs which has some light/medium drones even t1 will kill bomber faster than battleship is in even half the shields. stealth bomber is still junk and wont be never useful if ccp wont give it decloaking bomb to hunt cloakers. period! ----------------------------------------------- Limit cloaks to cloaking ships! Or Make covert ops`s to scan prototype and improved cloaks!!!
Great Smirnov	Posted - 2009.04.17 13:13:00 - [53] Originally by: Mad0ne Overally CCP came up with idea to make bomber interesting for 5 minutes until you realise that now its TOTALLY useless. agree. imho it will be useful only if it gets the possibility to pop average battleship with torps in the time that ship need to send his light drones after the bomber. otherwise it is laughable. before i was using SB as anti-falcon, longer range good explosion signature. but now its kinda useless, damage on cruiser size hulls sucks, target painter now mandatory.
logeoff now	Posted - 2009.04.17 13:19:00 - [54] Originally by: Great Smirnov Originally by: Mad0ne Overally CCP came up with idea to make bomber interesting for 5 minutes until you realise that now its TOTALLY useless. agree. imho it will be useful only if it gets the possibility to pop average battleship with torps in the time that ship need to send his light drones after the bomber. otherwise it is laughable. before i was using SB as anti-falcon, longer range good explosion signature. but now its kinda useless, damage on cruiser size hulls sucks, target painter now mandatory. Yeah at least back then bombers had one job to do... scare those damn falcons away which could get oppsing BS fleet killed really fast (BECAUSE OF FALCONS) Now falcons got nerft well ok... but they will be still used. BUT there is no need for bomber anymore... and any FC who has just a little bit of common sense will not take SB into fleet to go kill opposing BS fleet.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.04.17 13:56:00 - [55] Originally by: Great Smirnov Originally by: Mad0ne Overally CCP came up with idea to make bomber interesting for 5 minutes until you realise that now its TOTALLY useless. agree. imho it will be useful only if it gets the possibility to pop average battleship with torps in the time that ship need to send his light drones after the bomber. otherwise it is laughable. before i was using SB as anti-falcon, longer range good explosion signature. but now its kinda useless, damage on cruiser size hulls sucks, target painter now mandatory. Breaking news: Stealth bombers can fire torps from outside drone range. Normal maximum drone range: 57Km (very few people train EW Drones V) Maximum T1 torp bomber range: 60Km -> 69Km with 1 rig -> 72Km with a 3% implant A single unbonused scan res damp applied to a battleship brings the targetting time up to 30 seconds or more.
Mad0ne Caldari Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2009.04.17 14:11:00 - [56] And then? Okok.. it works if someone tackles the BS and can outrun drones or jam. But do you see many battleships being lonely targets in 0.0 these days? I dont... ----------------------------------------------- Limit cloaks to cloaking ships! Or Make covert ops`s to scan prototype and improved cloaks!!!
Echo Mande StarCom Industries APEX Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.04.17 14:52:00 - [57] I'm not yet close to being able to fly one but on reading it looks like an interesting change. I can't wait to see the first capital ship or POS killmail where the majority of damage got done by a horde of stealth bombers. I'll have to check when I get my Manticore.
Thercon Jair Minmatar Nex Exercitus Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.04.17 14:52:00 - [58] Originally by: Mad0ne And then? Okok.. it works if someone tackles the BS and can outrun drones or jam. But do you see many battleships being lonely targets in 0.0 these days? I dont... There's an awful lot of them around, ratting. But then, you wont be able to catch them unless they remodel the way 0.0 local channel works to how WH local channel works, in delayed mode (I think it is called). If they do change it, you will be easily able to kill the farmers that you couldn't touch so far, because, everytime someone entered local, they would just warp to their SS and cloak (I hear they like to use macros for that too). It would be quite a change, and re-introduce the "challenge-factor" into 0.0, that is lost with people ratting unthreatened in 0.0 systems. Hi Chinese Gold Farmer (one once called me a mother**er in chinese, when I managed to pop his hauler that brought 2 full giant cans of paradise cruise missiles out ^^ ). Other than that, you are currently unable to get rid of them, because the ratters themselves don't have to travel at all. Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar!**
Dreamwalker	Posted - 2009.04.17 16:04:00 - [59] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Great Smirnov Originally by: Mad0ne Overally CCP came up with idea to make bomber interesting for 5 minutes until you realise that now its TOTALLY useless. agree. imho it will be useful only if it gets the possibility to pop average battleship with torps in the time that ship need to send his light drones after the bomber. otherwise it is laughable. before i was using SB as anti-falcon, longer range good explosion signature. but now its kinda useless, damage on cruiser size hulls sucks, target painter now mandatory. Breaking news: Stealth bombers can fire torps from outside drone range. Normal maximum drone range: 57Km (very few people train EW Drones V) Maximum T1 torp bomber range: 60Km -> 69Km with 1 rig -> 72Km with a 3% implant A single unbonused scan res damp applied to a battleship brings the targetting time up to 30 seconds or more. Wouldn't the use of the bomb now take care of the drones? Originally by: CCP Whisper Local chat in known 0.0, low sec and empire space will remain as it is today, in all it's insta-intel giving, afk cloaker panic inducing, jita trade spamming glory.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.04.17 16:48:00 - [60] It's amazing how dumb most of you are Compare the old SB to these, and you complain? What could it even do before? Shoot AFK frigates? > Cheaper bomb prices > Better fittings > Higher DPS and Volley > About the same speed while cloaked > Can warp cloaked ffs > Easier to fit bombs The only down side is doing less dps to ships smaller than a BC. The SB was totally meaningless before the patch. As of now, they are still pretty much out performed by most of the other ship classes, but at least you won't feel totally useless on ops.



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