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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
   |
Posted - 2009.04.18 18:51:00 -
[1]
My previous topic was more on minmatar capitals in general (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=779753) and while I would like to see the nidhoggur shield tanked, the Naglfar on it's own is a more pressing issue. When Bane brought the previous topic to the CSM he lumped it in with a capital change in general and I really don't think the Naglfar got enough attention, hence this thread.
Why does the Naglfar suck?
Training time
Not only do you have to train up two different capital weapon systems, but if you are a Minmatar carrier pilot you have to train up a different set of tanking skills in order to shield tank it. This leaves most Nidhoggur pilots looking at the dread training time and figuring out the training for a revelation is about the same amount of time, but with the added bonus of the revelation being a great dread and getting good t2 sniper bses out of it. On top of this, in order to really maximize the damage of the Naglfar you need to train up two different sets of weapon support skills while any other dread pilot would only need to train 1.
This would all be okay, if the Naglfar wasn't a sub par dread after all that training.
Fitting
Here's links on "regular" fittings for Dreads. I'm using all skills V to really emphasize how much the Naglfar sucks even if you spend the insane amount of time to train everything to V. Also all fits will include faction EANM's (as they are rather cheap) and faction damage mods.
The fits in general are a bit more "gank" fit rather than tank fit, apart from the armor tanking Naglfar which I usually see fit with 1 gyro. Unfortunately this fit kills the only advantage the armor tanking nag has over the other armor tanking dreads, namely cap stability and eHP.
Now what do you notice about the naglfar in comparison to all 3 other dreads? All 3 other dreads do about 500 more dps than a shield tanked naglfar (which has more damage mods) and about 1700 more dps than the armor tanked naglfar. If you turn off the guns on the moros and the rev, the armor tanking naglfar has about 100k more eHP than them both but they both tank around the same. Personally, for 1700 dps more I'd take the hit in tank. The shield tanking naglfar has about the same eHP as the moros and revelation, but the tank is much less cap stable (even if it's more of a burst tank). Even in cap fights when a shield tank naglfar is primary you can often dump all your cap before dying (I've done this). The phoenix is considerably better than both setups of the naglfar. It does more dps, more alpha, more tankable dps, and more eHP than both setups. You do have to deal with missiles and how much they suck in PvP, but so does the naglfar.
So we can sum up the dreads like this:
- The rev has the advantage of no ammo which means it doesn't have to reload, it also has a decent tank and good dps
- The Moros has the same dps / tank as the Rev and a fun little drone bonus for undock games and fighting sub-caps
- The Phoenix has a crazy tank, crazy eHP, and crazy alpha which makes it a pretty fun ship to fly if you can get over lol missiles
- The Naglfar has ... the ability to tank differently and shoot missiles OR guns? I really don't know. What does the Naglfar have that you would ever want to fly it? Nothing. It even requires you to sink more time into training.
Please resist the urge to flame - Mitnal
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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.18 19:00:00 -
[2]
reserved
Please resist the urge to flame - Mitnal
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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.18 19:01:00 -
[3]
reserved
Please resist the urge to flame - Mitnal
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.04.18 20:01:00 -
[4]
How many topics do we need on this?
The issue was already raised too.
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Uedel
Lyonesse.
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.18 22:16:00 -
[5]
supported
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Hex Keng
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.04.18 22:26:00 -
[6]
Again... supported. I was just thinking these days that it would never be worth the time to skill for Nag... pls fix. |
Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.18 23:54:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: LaVista Vista
How many topics do we need on this?
The issue was already raised too.
You could of at least read the first two sentences.
Please resist the urge to flame - Mitnal
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.04.19 01:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
How many topics do we need on this?
The issue was already raised too.
As many as needed until it gets ****ing fixed. You think the changes in the OP (that you didn't read, gj on that) will take a long time to balance and put onto sisi/tq?
The naglfar has been waiting years for a fix.
Supporting this great thread.
Originally by: CCP Whisper
So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
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mucklavee
ASSASSIN SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2009.04.19 02:20:00 -
[9]
supportin dis here topic also
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.04.19 04:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Originally by: LaVista Vista
How many topics do we need on this?
As many as needed until it gets ****ing fixed.
While I think the rest of Vaal's post is unnecessarily harsh, this part I agree with fully. The Nag is hilariously bad, and needs a fix. It's obviously, and by a large margin, the worst capital ship in the game. Unless this is part of a plan for race-wide balance(e.g., Minmatar intentionally get the best cruisers and the worst capitals), and I have no reason to believe it is, it needs fixing. Not a big fan of balance issues, but this one's pretty glaring.
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Bloodmoney Incorporated is recruiting! |
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S8nt
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.19 17:32:00 -
[11]
Edited by: S8nt on 19/04/2009 17:32:46
Forsure! Best looking dread and can't use it 
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xttz
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.19 18:04:00 -
[12]
Never flown a nag, never will (unless this gets implemented)
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maya ibuki2
THORN Syndicate
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.19 18:54:00 -
[13]
im supporting the living daylights outta this.
i dislike that the naglfar is little more than a very large trimark for the next dread down the target callers list.
for the love of god fix the naggie
maya ibuki2-currently thorn alliance pvper, proud member of the 54th knights templar and genral shooty type |
Urhgo Khanab
Rogen's Heroes
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.04.20 05:43:00 -
[14]
Supported
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Octavio Santillian
Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2009.04.20 07:39:00 -
[15]
You know CCP says that the Sebiestors are some of the greatest engineers in New Eden, but you wouldn't know if from the Nag.
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Melakith Entar
BoB Enterprises
Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.04.20 09:05:00 -
[16]
Seeing as I plan on oneday flying one of these babys then yes, fix the damn thing already
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Noodly Appendage
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Posted - 2009.04.20 09:58:00 -
[17]
Not supported..shield boost amount on a dread? Tha't won't help it a single bit to set it a apart..
CCP should make it the 'gank' dread of the four..reduce base HP by 25% or so, and instead give it 7.5%/lvl ROF bonus accompanied with a general fix of capital projectiles. (as it stands now unbonused pulses are better than bonused capital proejctiles!!) Remove one low for a mid ad give it some extra cpu.
In short..
- lower hp, more dps
- ability to fit mroe damage mods along with shield tank
That'll really make it 'different' from the other three.
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Vegetate
tr0pa de elite
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.04.20 10:47:00 -
[18]
Good argumentation. Support.
____________________
Once known as Fedain
[red]Please resize sig to a file size no greater than 24000 by |
Midjutetur
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.20 13:23:00 -
[19]
needs balancing...
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Asterisk Grat
Best Path Inc.
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.04.20 13:50:00 -
[20]
The most overlooked and ignored active issue by CCP.
The issue to remain the longest in the Assembly Hall section and keep getting constant support by players.
Supported
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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 14:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Noodly Appendage
Not supported..shield boost amount on a dread? Tha't won't help it a single bit to set it a apart..
CCP should make it the 'gank' dread of the four..reduce base HP by 25% or so, and instead give it 7.5%/lvl ROF bonus accompanied with a general fix of capital projectiles. (as it stands now unbonused pulses are better than bonused capital proejctiles!!) Remove one low for a mid ad give it some extra cpu.
In short..
- lower hp, more dps
- ability to fit mroe damage mods along with shield tank
That'll really make it 'different' from the other three.
It already has low eHP, giving it a bonus to shield boosting would only make the incredibly weak and ~1 minute cap out time on it a strong enough to not die horribly to a pos (which happens if you shield tank and it's a well setup, gunned tower).
Support Fixing the Naglfar!
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hast Ulga
Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille
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Posted - 2009.04.20 16:32:00 -
[22]
Yes Please
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Min Qa
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Posted - 2009.04.20 22:24:00 -
[23]
Supported!
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SickSeven
The Undead Righteous Knights
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Posted - 2009.04.21 01:48:00 -
[24]
I will support every topic on this issue until it is flucking FIXED!!!
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Cpt Underpants
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.04.21 02:48:00 -
[25]
Make the nag worth the time to train.
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Relatyve Mynd
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Posted - 2009.04.21 07:18:00 -
[26]
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Piccalo
SUNDERING
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.04.21 08:51:00 -
[27]
signed 
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Slip Kid
Titan Industries Technology Team
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.04.21 15:54:00 -
[28]
Signed.
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Jack Nuddels
Congregatio
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.04.21 17:30:00 -
[29]
supported
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Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.04.21 18:53:00 -
[30]
3 years and counting!
Fix it!
_______________
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
QUANT is rebuilding, EVE-Mail me for recruitment info.
Item Database |
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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.21 19:05:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Noodly Appendage
(as it stands now unbonused pulses are better than bonused capital proejctiles!!)
Hahah so I went back and looked at this:
Here's a nag with Giga beams (All skills V): http://eve-files.com/dl/194710
And Here's the nag with arty that was in the OP: http://eve-files.com/dl/194381
Even with Minmatar Dread V a Naglfar with beams will significantly out damage a arty Nag if you take into account reload time
It's official, fit lasers on your nag. |
Chicken Vindaloo
People of the Anthropomorphic Worlds Sovereignty
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Posted - 2009.04.21 22:30:00 -
[32]
Signed. |
MADMAT
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.21 22:58:00 -
[33]
Supported, Something needs to be done ASAP |
Dao2
No Limit Productions
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.22 00:34:00 -
[34]
Definitely support |
thelung187
Guiding Hand Social Club
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.22 01:18:00 -
[35]
Edited by: thelung187 on 22/04/2009 01:18:07
Originally by: LaVista Vista
How many topics do we need on this?
The issue was already raised too.
Simply because the issue is raised does not mean that it does not still require attention. To be blunt, 3 years of neglect on CCP's part warrants whatever action the player base deems necessary in order to get the ship balanced properly.
edit: lrn2sign 
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Valorous Bob
TARSHISH FOUNDATION
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Posted - 2009.04.22 02:41:00 -
[36]
Convincing arguement Yorda, even if you are a goon. 
_______________________________________________
Originally by: Governor LePetomane
You know who I can't stand? Explorers. Smug, invisible bastards. 
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.04.22 07:00:00 -
[37]
Yes naglfail needs attention. Obvious.
Well no dmg mods on ur fits kinda suck tbh. I'd drop the 3 hardeners and get 1 more faction eanm and 2 dmg mods. 1 bcs and 1 i guess heatsink? pshaw? |
Dani Leone
Freelancer Union
Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2009.04.22 10:13:00 -
[38]
Adding that I think this will be ignored by CCP as the same 'blight' of split weapons systems infects a number of ships that they would get pressure to revisit if they look at this with the seriousness it deserves. And I bet they don't want that.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.04.22 13:39:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Malcanis on 22/04/2009 13:39:39
Originally by: Yorda
Originally by: Noodly Appendage
(as it stands now unbonused pulses are better than bonused capital proejctiles!!)
Hahah so I went back and looked at this:
Here's a nag with Giga beams (All skills V): http://eve-files.com/dl/194710
And Here's the nag with arty that was in the OP: http://eve-files.com/dl/194381
Even with Minmatar Dread V a Naglfar with beams will significantly out damage a arty Nag if you take into account reload time
It's official, fit lasers on your nag.
Pretty hard to dispute that Nags (and Large/XL Arty) need a buff now...
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Hurricane Carter
0ccam's Razor
Nexus-Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.22 14:46:00 -
[40]
Supporting this !
Not much else I can say really, just look at the evidence infront of you. nothing CCP say's can dispute the fact that the Naglfar is the worst dread if not the worst cap ship out there.
CCP, Fix this please! :) |
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Shtabe
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.04.22 15:35:00 -
[41]
minny ships are pretty terrible, this one, however, is the worst
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Another Forum'Alt
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.22 18:38:00 -
[42]
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Dohl Khrensen
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.04.22 19:09:00 -
[43]
Supported. Something so awesomely vertical shouldn't be so terribly bad. Some sort of fix needed.
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CountingCrow
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.22 20:06:00 -
[44]
Supporting tis
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maya ibuki2
THORN Syndicate
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.23 08:03:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Yorda
Originally by: Noodly Appendage
(as it stands now unbonused pulses are better than bonused capital proejctiles!!)
Hahah so I went back and looked at this:
Here's a nag with Giga beams (All skills V): http://eve-files.com/dl/194710
And Here's the nag with arty that was in the OP: http://eve-files.com/dl/194381
Even with Minmatar Dread V a Naglfar with beams will significantly out damage a arty Nag if you take into account reload time
It's official, fit lasers on your nag.
you know, this is kinda amusing. i was once told of a hallowed time for the artilley piece, where it was so awesome the ammar favoured it to their own guns for bs engagements. that was fixed pretty bloody quickly by nerfing artys/boosting hp and boosting beams if memory serves.....
...and now the exact opposite is the case. ah well, i was thinking of training amarr anyway....
/me still supports
maya ibuki2-currently thorn alliance pvper, proud member of the 54th knights templar and genral shooty type |
Horatio Nately
808 Enterprises
Malum Exuro
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Posted - 2009.04.23 09:49:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Horatio Nately on 23/04/2009 09:51:25
/signed
Suppotring one of the best looking ships in the game imo.
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CEO 808 Enterprises, A Hawaii, USA Playercorp
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Shai 'Hulud
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.04.23 11:35:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Shai ''Hulud on 23/04/2009 11:35:52
Lazor nag is the next fotm? 
/signed
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Horatio Nately
Caldari
808 Enterprises
Malum Exuro
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Posted - 2009.04.23 16:54:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Horatio Nately on 23/04/2009 16:55:24
nm
bump since i feel this issue is important enough
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CEO 808 Enterprises, A Hawaii, USA Playercorp
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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.23 19:22:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Shai 'Hulud
Edited by: Shai ''Hulud on 23/04/2009 11:35:52
Lazor nag is the next fotm?
/signed
I just bought a nag again. Who knows, maybe in 20 days we'll get a great hilarious lossmail.
Support Fixing the Naglfar!
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darkfuntime
Fat J
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Posted - 2009.04.24 02:10:00 -
[50]
but it wont be fixed,ccp allways keeps the brutors in there place.you would think after all the years that that if one dread allways gets called primary.ccp would fix it,ooo wait we really needed tier 3 ships
[/url]
Take back your existence or die like a punk.
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Hisomi
Suicidal Intentions
Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2009.04.25 12:05:00 -
[51]
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TimGascoigne
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.04.25 12:36:00 -
[52]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
How many topics do we need on this?
The issue was already raised too.
raised? the issue is still outstanding as a fix has not yet been applied. and this is the only naglfar specific topic.
the nag is the biggest white elephant in the game with no advantages/great inferioritys and certainly no role.
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Slave 2739FKZ
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Posted - 2009.04.25 12:54:00 -
[53]
The question is, why CCP does hate mintards?
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Thercon Jair
Nex Exercitus
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.04.25 16:00:00 -
[54]
Yes, the Naglfar needs ballancing. Not that I necessarily want it to be changed to a 4 turret layout, but it does need some changes.
On a sidenote: on capital ships, Signature radius is not an issue. While it is true that the Naglfar has the smallest signature of all dreads, it means nothing since:
1. Dreads in Siege mode don't move
2. XL weapon's signature resolution is still smaller than the Naglfar's Signature, so, no help from there.
And on a sidenote: adding a falloff bonus component to all optimal affecting modules (as TDs already have), would help minmatar weaponry quite a bit, as you can see with the Xl arties, 88km falloff is quite a number to be modified by a range mod.
Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
Nalf
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.26 04:48:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Yorda
Here's a nag with Giga beams (All skills V): http://eve-files.com/dl/194710
Even with Minmatar Dread V a Naglfar with beams will significantly out damage a arty Nag if you take into account reload time
It's official, fit lasers on your nag.
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Jon Lucien
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.04.26 05:12:00 -
[56]
As a minmatar pilot, I firmly support finding a reason to train for my own race's dreadnought rather than a moros.
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Valanan
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.26 10:20:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Valanan on 26/04/2009 10:21:00
Originally by: Nalf
Originally by: Yorda
Here's a nag with Giga beams (All skills V): http://eve-files.com/dl/194710
Even with Minmatar Dread V a Naglfar with beams will significantly out damage a arty Nag if you take into account reload time
It's official, fit lasers on your nag.
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Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.04.26 16:25:00 -
[58]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
How many topics do we need on this?
how ever many topics it takes for the issue to get attention from CCP.
Originally by: LaVista Vista
The issue was already raised too.
And it needs to be raised again, and again, until CCP fix it.
===============
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Crystal Evolution
Celestial Ascension
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.26 16:52:00 -
[59]
Much support from a future Naglfar pilot
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Zostera
Honour Bound
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.04.27 11:27:00 -
[60]
Minnie pilot currently traing Amarr after realisation that Naglfar and Battleships on route to it are a waste of time.
Supported.
Zos
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mazzilliu
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.27 13:20:00 -
[61]
nags suck.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1045803
VOTE FOR ME FOR CSM |
Orar Ironfist
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.04.28 00:18:00 -
[62]
dont even fly a nag but know people who do, this really deserves fixing
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Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.04.28 05:43:00 -
[63]
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1056658&page=2#36
===============
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chisell
BoB Enterprises
Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.04.28 07:57:00 -
[64]
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Nekmet Awai
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Posted - 2009.04.28 12:10:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Yorda
Edited by: Yorda on 21/04/2009 19:16:16
Sniping with Dreads
Along the same lines of sniping battleships, sniping dreads sacrifice tank and dps for range. This isn't as effective as sniping battleships as they don't get the nice T2 ammo for extra range + damage and they are stuck in siege where as the sniper battleships have more ability to warp in / out, but if you can control the hostiles you're shooting at it's an effective way of killing hostiles that arn't usually designed to even be able to lock you, let alone shoot at you. The Naglfar is once again bottom of the barrel by a long shot for this. All 3 other dreads only have to fit a few range mods because they only have 1 type of weapon to worry about. Naglfars have to fit range mods for BOTH guns and missiles. This is one of the many reasons why split weapons suck.
haha i would like to see you try to snipe with citadel torps XD
not supported
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group
Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.04.28 15:51:00 -
[66]
I do not support this change -- unless the change involves making the Nag horizontal and not vertical. The combination of the proposed changes & keeping the Nag vertical will make it the best dread in the game and throw off balance.
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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.28 18:06:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Kenpachi Viktor
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1056658&page=2#36
*sigh* I bet we'll be getting a cpu boost and another mid slot. Go ahead and throw a bandaid on the gushing wound.
Support Fixing the Naglfar!
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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.28 18:53:00 -
[68]
Updated OP to alter for ship hull only having room for 2 turrets:
Instead of 4 gun slots, 2 gun slots with role bonus 100% damage bonus for capital projectiles.
Support Fixing the Naglfar!
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Antir
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.28 20:51:00 -
[69]
It's pretty, it should be useful too.
Originally by: facintalimpedime
Goons have no business holding space. We should not even have allies willing to come help us. We are that terrible.
And yet, we're still not BoB pets.
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Odhinn Vinlandii
Viper Squad
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.04.28 21:18:00 -
[70]
Supported.
Make Minmatar all turrets no launchers, or give Minmatar a ship bonus to every single weapon in game.
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Nova Soldier
ROMANIA Renegades
Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2009.04.28 22:50:00 -
[71]
I cannot belive it but i have to agree with the goon and say that naglafar is THE weakest capital compared with the outhers.
IT NEEDS A CHANGE.
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Kralin Ignatov
Mentis Fidelis
Avarice.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 00:52:00 -
[72]
this ship sucks
fix it
/signed
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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.29 15:31:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Yorda on 29/04/2009 15:31:25
I was going to reply to someone here to bump the thread but figured shamelessly bumping it would be a better idea anyway (plus, :effort:)
Support Fixing the Naglfar!
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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.29 20:30:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Yorda
Originally by: Kenpachi Viktor
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1056658&page=2#36
*sigh* I bet we'll be getting a cpu boost and another mid slot. Go ahead and throw a bandaid on the gushing wound.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1061225
Oh hey look at that CCP actually surpased my expectations for their worthlessness and complete inability to understand their own game. Congrats!
Support Fixing the Naglfar!
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Noah Fraust
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Posted - 2009.04.30 02:27:00 -
[75]
I support this. I also support Yorda's suggestion from another thread to:
Quote from Yorda:
2 gun slots 100% damage role bonus
5% shield boost amount instead of missile RoF
3/6/5
+15% cpu
/end quote
It seems that this would clearly define the role of the Naglfar, and CCP could only object because it takes away the split weapon systems that they originally designed.
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Austintatious
Overview Glitch
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Posted - 2009.04.30 09:30:00 -
[76]
supported, but keep the nag as an armor tanker, us nidd pilots would then have to train the shield skills according to your plan..
Flying Minmatar ships is like riding an office chair down stairs while firing an oozy. |
maya ibuki2
THORN Syndicate
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.30 23:59:00 -
[77]
*le bumpe*
nudgin dis to the toppa da pile, as its important like,
maya ibuki2-currently thorn alliance pvper, proud member of the 54th knights templar and genral shooty type |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.01 08:14:00 -
[78]
Yeah fix phoenix give it 3 turret slots and hybrid bonuses. It even does less dmg than the naglfar by far.
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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.01 19:12:00 -
[79]
Okay so after a lot of ~math~ the new capital artillery proposals means that with DREAD V capital artillery will out damage unbonused lasers on the nag by about 5%. This still means that with dread IV capital beams will do ~5% more than capital artillery.
Guess I'll have to update the OP.
Support Fixing the Naglfar!
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Nichola Kreed
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Posted - 2009.05.01 19:53:00 -
[80]
just give it 4 turret slots and swich Quad 3500 gun to dual 4900 gun so they can keep the awesome model same (still 8 guns on each side but 4 turrets instead of 2).
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The Constructerer
Semitic Sciences
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.01 20:00:00 -
[81]
I like this.
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Wu Jiaqiu
Celestial Ascension
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.05.02 04:15:00 -
[82]
Supported
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Shadow Devourer
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Posted - 2009.05.04 19:27:00 -
[83]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
A quick update:
We are currently looking at the following changes or amendments to the original proposals. The capital projectile changes remain the same.
Naglfar Bonuses:
* 7.5% Capital Projectile Damage per level
* 7.5% Capital Projectile Rate of fire per level
Naglfar Attributes
* +1 med slot
* +150 cpu (850 base)
* -65,000 powergrid (560,000 base)
* the model has been fixed and rotated on its axis 90 degrees so is horizontal now.
Citadel Torpedoes
* velocity increased to 2,750 m/s
* flight time decreased to 25 secs
Regarding Split Weapons
Many of you have made good arguments against split weapons primarily focused around damage mods. We certainly do not disagree with those points that split weapon systems need adequate bonuses to factor in modules, rig or implant choices and the ease of using single weapon systems.
Our current objective is to recognise the unique nature of the naglfar and retain its dual weapon system but focus the bonuses on the matari projectile side of the weapons with the missiles retaining a secondary role.
The Naglfar in its new horizontal role
The dual projectile bonus in addition to its unbonused citadel torps gives it an edge outside drone range within its missile range, then its damage is comparable to the moros and revelation at the longer ranges. The addition of the med slot and cpu allows for more viable shield or armour tanks and with the high bonuses allows for a roughly equivalent performance with only one damage mod. Combine this with much faster torpedoes, then the delayed damage factor is reduced and using the torpedoes becomes a much better option within its effective ranges.
We believe this package of changes puts the naglfar at equal height (lol pun) with the other dreadnoughts and allows it to be a more viable choice out on the field.
Feedback is welcome and the usual disclaimer applies, things may change before patch day.
The original post will be updated shortly with these changes!
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.04 20:57:00 -
[84]
Naglfar isn't vertical any more?
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Shadow Devourer
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Posted - 2009.05.04 21:11:00 -
[85]
Did you know the word "gullible" isn't in dictionaries?
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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.04 22:57:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Shadow Devourer
Did you know the word "gullible" isn't in dictionaries?
no wai!
I'm very happy with these new changes as I can go back to my previous title of laser nag > arty nag without having to preface it with anything.
Also it means I can fly laser nags :)
Support Fixing the Naglfar!
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Sir Substance
Deep Black Industries
House of Mercury
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Posted - 2009.05.05 04:16:00 -
[87]
the nag is in desperate need of a fix. supported.
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Harik A'ttar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.05 18:02:00 -
[88]
Jesus make your $!@$ artists do their job and get rid of the ridiculous split weapons system. They're horrible on every ship you put them on. Why, after spending 50% more training time, can I be "nearly" as good as a rev - If I use unbonused weapons! Whoopdie f'ing doo.
As a Minmatar pilot who trained Torp V, Large Projectile V and Minmatar BS V - before realizing I had made a hilariously bad career choice and RETRAINED for Revs from scratch...
SIGNED.
(Not kidding, I was about 2 weeks away from flying nags when I started over and did Revs instead)
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Fzoul
EXTERMINATUS.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.05.15 21:28:00 -
[89]
Agreed
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Vergil Kankuro
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Posted - 2009.05.16 07:49:00 -
[90]
Yes artillery sucks, and a 100% role bonus to damage for projectiles would compensate for the nag's relative lack of damage, but what if the nag pilot decided to fit... oh i dunno, autocannons? Plus, by removing the two missile hardpoints, and not adding a third turret hardpoint (which would require a total overhaul of the naglfar ship model) you're giving the naglfar 2 extra high slots, something NO other dread has. This could give the dread the ability to equip neuts, or remote ecm bursts, or god knows what else, which goes against what dreads are meant to do.
Perhaps just a 50% role bonus, it would effectively give the nag 3 turrets, instead of 4, and remove the extra high slot. |
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Vergil Kankuro
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Posted - 2009.05.16 07:57:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Shadow Devourer
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
A quick update:
* the model has been fixed and rotated on its axis 90 degrees so is horizontal now.
NO! For the love of god NOO! That is perhaps the Naglfar's best attribute by a very wide margin! Making it horizontal will make it look like a terd the pheonix just dropped into the toilet. You can do everything else, just PLEASE dont make the Naglfar lay down! |
Zenethalos
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.06.21 06:37:00 -
[92]
Getting pretty fed up with the broken f*****g Nag, not to mention our BS and a few other ships. It's a sad day when many Matari pilot's after being loyal to Matari ships of many years call it quits and train Amarr or Gallente.
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mazzilliu
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Posted - 2009.06.21 06:42:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Vergil Kankuro
Originally by: Shadow Devourer
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
A quick update:
* the model has been fixed and rotated on its axis 90 degrees so is horizontal now.
NO! For the love of god NOO! That is perhaps the Naglfar's best attribute by a very wide margin! Making it horizontal will make it look like a terd the pheonix just dropped into the toilet. You can do everything else, just PLEASE dont make the Naglfar lay down!
what if you made it horizontal but not in the back-forward orientation most ships are, but in the side-to-side orientation? so its incredibly wide and can still get bumped off stations while undocking like we all love.
MAZZILLIU 2009. CHANGE I CAN IMPOSE ON YOU. |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2009.06.22 23:30:00 -
[94]
Strong support of fixing the naglfar, after typing out a skill guide for capital pilots in my alliance i then truely understood how much more split weapon systems is a serius time sink skill training wise and would put most people of training for the thing |
Kurth Ren
Broski Enterprises
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.06.23 06:37:00 -
[95]
Oh god, I knew nag was bad, but...
Oh god, that laser nag fit made me crack up at how hilariously broken the nag is. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.23 08:26:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 23/06/2009 08:35:43
Originally by: Kurth Ren
Oh god, I knew nag was bad, but...
Oh god, that laser nag fit made me crack up at how hilariously broken the nag is.
You realise this isnt accurate anymore since the changes to the nag?
While it still has the downside of needing to train for both projectiles and missiles, imo that gets easily compensated by its upsides. It can now without problems compete with the other dreads and it is freaking vertical.
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Deepeh
Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.06.23 09:32:00 -
[97]
Quote:
All 3 other dreads only have to fit a few range mods because they only have 1 type of weapon to worry about. Naglfars have to fit range mods for BOTH guns and missiles. This
Range mods for missiles?
4 turrets on a Naglifar because artillery projectiles sucks? How about, I don't know, uhm, ehh, just fix artillery? |
Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2009.06.23 12:42:00 -
[98]
OP needs to be updated, or this post get locked or deleted.
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Natalia Kovac
Phoenix Tribe
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.06.26 10:47:00 -
[99]
Supportin' |
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