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Give all characters a buff of +3 to all attributes while in low/null

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Lexmana Imperial Stout 407	Posted - 2012.05.05 17:14:00 - [1] - Quote There are currently two threads in General Discussion about attribute implants. The issue is that as soon as a newb learn about them they feel they need them installed at all times to boost their SP gain. This makes them risk adverse because losing a pod is expensive for a newb with a full head of +4s. So they stay in empire and grind missions until they become bored and quit. There is a simple solution to this problem: Give all characters a buff of +3 to all attributes while in low/null. It will create an incentive for newbs to venture out into dangerous space. It might even lure out some other min/maxers currently residing in empire. And why should you not acquire SP faster when you leave the newb are called highsec?
Aleksander Erkkinen Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous 1	Posted - 2012.05.05 17:24:00 - [2] - Quote 9,000 new pilots in egghelende, all docked up and afk would not change the game in any meaningful way, but that's about all the positive change you'd get with a change like this. They wont operate in low sec, they'd just log off there - one jump away from hisec. As for negative changes... I see no problem with low/null getting benefits, but dear lord would the carebear tears would flow. At best you'd give station campers a few velators and ibis to shoot at. Sorry, but it's just a bad idea.
Lexmana Imperial Stout 410	Posted - 2012.05.05 17:55:00 - [3] - Quote Aleksander Erkkinen wrote: 9,000 new pilots in egghelende, all docked up and afk would not change the game in any meaningful way, but that's about all the positive change you'd get with a change like this. They wont operate in low sec, they'd just log off there - one jump away from hisec. As for negative changes... I see no problem with low/null getting benefits, but dear lord would the carebear tears would flow. At best you'd give station campers a few velators and ibis to shoot at. Sorry, but it's just a bad idea. I see your point. So lets make the buff active only after being in lower sec for at least 24h.
Thomas Kreshant Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 31	Posted - 2012.05.05 18:05:00 - [4] - Quote I like the idea You can have the +3 bonus not stack with current +3's but still allow people to buy +4/+5's to gain an edge in learning if they want.
HELLBOUNDMAN Wiki Industrialists Wiki Conglomerates 50	Posted - 2012.05.05 18:18:00 - [5] - Quote I had an entirely different strategy on this all together I a nut shell it's about removing attribute implants all together and giving players that +5 from the start and forever and still allowing remaps based off that. While at the same time leaving those implant slots to allow the players to cross fit the hardwire implants of 6-10. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=98727
Fredfredbug4 The Scope Gallente Federation 279	Posted - 2012.05.05 18:44:00 - [6] - Quote People would just take a rookie ship or something they don't care about losing, and log off in a lowsec station. Perhaps the bonus should only apply while actively flying around?
Lexmana Imperial Stout 410	Posted - 2012.05.05 18:51:00 - [7] - Quote Fredfredbug4 wrote: People would just take a rookie ship or something they don't care about losing, and log off in a lowsec station. Perhaps the bonus should only apply while actively flying around? That strategy would not be so attractive if there was a 24h timer on the buff. But sure, there will probably be a few kill reports of noobships and +5s if this idea would go live. But, the idea is to give newbs a choice betyween expensive implants in empire or a fee boost in lowsec.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 203	Posted - 2012.05.05 19:26:00 - [8] - Quote The chances of getting podded in lowsec are slim if you're a halfway decent pilot. I'm sure most people wouldn't have any problem whatsoever flying around with a set of +5s. With all remap points on two attributes and +5 implants you could skill at 2970 SP/hr, as opposed to the max 2700 SP/hr now. I'm not terribly opposed to the idea, I just don't see any real reason for it. I think the problem that really needs to be addressed is clone jump timers. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window.
Xorv Questionable Acquisitions 288	Posted - 2012.05.05 19:32:00 - [9] - Quote I would do something along the lines of removing +4 or higher attribute implants, and make new boosters that lasts 24-48 hours that increase attributes up to +3 for the duration. The booster would primarily be created from resources harvested from implants in pod pilot corpses.
Lexmana Imperial Stout 410	Posted - 2012.05.05 19:34:00 - [10] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: The chances of getting podded in lowsec are slim if you're a halfway decent pilot. I'm sure most people wouldn't have any problem whatsoever flying around with a set of +5s. If borde rsystems become full with carebear noobships expects gates with disco battlesips. James Amril-Kesh wrote: With all remap points on two attributes and +5 implants you could skill at 2970 SP/hr, as opposed to the max 2700 SP/hr now. This could be adressed with a small adjustment of the base attributes. James Amril-Kesh wrote: I'm not terribly opposed to the idea, I just don't see any real reason for it. I think the problem that really needs to be addressed is clone jump timers. That doesn't really solve the problem for noobs since they don't have access to jump clones.

Danika Princip Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team 454	Posted - 2012.05.05 21:17:00 - [11] - Quote Park a covops in a safespot. Log out. +8 to everything! Why is this needed?
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 234	Posted - 2012.05.05 21:57:00 - [12] - Quote Get out.
Lexmana Imperial Stout 413	Posted - 2012.05.06 05:31:00 - [13] - Quote XXSketchxx wrote: Get out. This is not general discussion internet tough kid.
Lexmana Imperial Stout 413	Posted - 2012.05.06 05:34:00 - [14] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Park a covops in a safespot. Log out. +8 to everything! Why is this needed? Did you read the OP?It will give newbs a choice between buying expensive implants or get the same benefit for free in lowsec. Base attributes can be adjusted (-2) to get SP/hr withing reasonable limits. And even covops ships will get podded by smartbombing battleships.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 240	Posted - 2012.05.06 05:41:00 - [15] - Quote Lexmana wrote: XXSketchxx wrote: Get out. This is not general discussion internet tough kid. Yeah, your idea is still bad bud. also confirming my post implied "internet tough kid" biomass your character and save us all from future stupidity provided by your delightful posting
Lexmana Imperial Stout 413	Posted - 2012.05.06 05:42:00 - [16] - Quote XXSketchxx wrote: Lexmana wrote: XXSketchxx wrote: Get out. This is not general discussion internet tough kid. Yeah, your idea is still bad bud. also confirming my post implied "internet tough kid" biomass your character and save us all from future stupidity provided by your delightful posting You kids are funny.
Kusum Fawn State War Academy Caldari State 42	Posted - 2012.05.06 06:08:00 - [17] - Quote It still doesnt address the fundamental why is this even needed? Smartbombing battleships is fine and all, but you know that there is lowsec all over the place, and wh are truesec, just because you are there, doesnt mean you are vulnerable (see all the people supporting afk cloak mechanics from the peole that want to change it) muchless being logged off, which is immune to smartbombs. peopel will still fly with +3, +4 and +5's and the people that you fight will still outclass you in total sp I dont see how having people park alts in lowsec stations makes pvp more fun, also this idea doesnt make a bit of sense from a realism or RP perspective.
Lexmana Imperial Stout 413	Posted - 2012.05.06 06:20:00 - [18] - Quote Kusum Fawn wrote: It still doesnt address the fundamental why is this even needed? Smartbombing battleships is fine and all, but you know that there is lowsec all over the place, and wh are truesec, just because you are there, doesnt mean you are vulnerable (see all the people supporting afk cloak mechanics from the peole that want to change it) muchless being logged off, which is immune to smartbombs. peopel will still fly with +3, +4 and +5's and the people that you fight will still outclass you in total sp I dont see how having people park alts in lowsec stations makes pvp more fun, also this idea doesnt make a bit of sense from a realism or RP perspective. There is a danger that newbs become risk adverse with expensive implants in their head so they stay in empire until they get bored and quit. I like them to go to lowsec and have fun instead. Some people may take the chance to go to lowsec with their expenisve implants and logg off. But with a 24h timer most people would probably not benefit much from such strategy. Those who stay and play the game in lowsec will however. From an RP perspective it makes perfect sense that your skills increase faster in a dangerous environment compared to residing in the safety of highsec.
Schmacos tryne Norsk Testosteron 32	Posted - 2012.05.06 06:40:00 - [19] - Quote I support this idea!
Kusum Fawn State War Academy Caldari State 43	Posted - 2012.05.06 06:56:00 - [20] - Quote Lexmana wrote: There is a danger that newbs become risk adverse with expensive implants in their head so they stay in empire until they get bored and quit. I like them to go to lowsec and have fun instead. Some people may take the chance to go to lowsec with their expenisve implants and logg off. But with a 24h timer most people would probably not benefit much from such strategy. Those who stay and play the game in lowsec will however. From an RP perspective it makes perfect sense that your skills increase faster in a dangerous environment compared to residing in the safety of highsec. Real noobs generally arent loaded with "expensive" implants owing to their very nature of being noobs, generally their aversion to going into lowwsec (from my experience talking to noobs, by no means a scientific or complete survey) stems from getting killed often by people who camp the gates at lowsec to hisec connections. Losing ships tends to be the more important factor to noobs then implants which they can't yet afford. Noobs living in hisec often quit because of the consistent "griefing" or targeted attacks by bored higher skilled players and not from lack of activities. can flipping miners and scanning missions with the expressed purpose of baiting missioners, ganking industrials and many other activities that happen in the confines of hisec seem to be the leading causes of people leaving. as there is no exit survey, these results are hard to confirm. being "curb stomped" as another poster put it, repeatedly by gangs and solo hi skilled players over and over in lowsec do not make for a fun experience. I dont quite understand the 24 hour timer you are proposing, how exactly will it work? you have to be online for 24 hours? inspace or docked? im not sure how this wont be only for those training super cap pilot alts. And as to the RP, It doesnt. If this game were a repetition based skill game then it would make sense that living out in null would train you the fastest. but it isnt, its a time based game. repetition of activities or even being logged on doesnt change your skill training, how the sec of where you happen to have last logged off would change that doesnt make any RP sense.

Lexmana Imperial Stout 413	Posted - 2012.05.06 07:05:00 - [21] - Quote Kusum Fawn wrote: Losing ships tends to be the more important factor to noobs then implants which they can't yet afford. But they will start grinding to save up for those implants and get bored in the process. And if they manage to afford them they will not want to risk them so they stay in empire to grind some more ... Kusum Fawn wrote: Noobs living in hisec often quit because of the consistent "griefing" or targeted attacks by bored higher skilled players and not from lack of activities. This idea does not aim to please all noobs. It is targeted towards retaining players who like to blow up other players ships and to get blown up themselves. These players should not even be in highsec but many of them are because they want to skill faster. I want to set them free in lowsec.
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 78	Posted - 2012.05.06 07:48:00 - [22] - Quote Wanting something for nothing .. how very null of you "Noobs" probably don't care either way as they have yet to be infected by the Min/Max bug we geriatrics live with so best guess is that it stems from a desire to make alt maturation easier/cheaper/faster. To assist legitimate "noobs", I could see it applying when/if: - Character SP is <5M. - Character has no implants whatsoever. - Character has a basic clone (by far the best discriminator to determine if ISK is available). - Character has been logged in and undocked in the last 24 hrs. Anything less strict and it benefits alt spamming which is the bane of Eve if you ask me.
Caliph Muhammed Short Bus Friends 113	Posted - 2012.05.06 08:45:00 - [23] - Quote A noob isn't worth squat. They haven't paid a sub for any length of time nor contributed to the game in any shape or form, good or bad. Why they feel they deserve something for free is beyond me. Aside from that this idea is poorly thought out. I would absolutely take my focused 5's right into low sec and park for the etra +3 and nothing would change.
Lexmana Imperial Stout 413	Posted - 2012.05.06 10:26:00 - [24] - Quote Veshta Yoshida wrote: Wanting something for nothing .. how very null of you Don't we all :). But it is more about risk/reward balance than getting something for free. Currently, empire dwellers have an advantage in training times because they can fit their clones with very expensive implants without fear of getting podded. This idea will even the odds by slightly nerfing higshsec training times and buffing low/null. Veshta Yoshida wrote: "Noobs" probably don't care either way as they have yet to be infected by the Min/Max bug we geriatrics live with so best guess is that it stems from a desire to make alt maturation easier/cheaper/faster. Noobs care the instant they become aware of attribute implants and training times. Veshta Yoshida wrote: To assist legitimate "noobs", I could see it applying when/if: - Character SP is <5M. - Character has no implants whatsoever. - Character has a basic clone (by far the best discriminator to determine if ISK is available). - Character has been logged in and undocked in the last 24 hrs. Anything less strict and it benefits alt spamming which is the bane of Eve if you ask me. I really don't like too much special noob treatment for a number of reasons. It is better with a general mechanic.
Lexmana Imperial Stout 413	Posted - 2012.05.06 10:37:00 - [25] - Quote Caliph Muhammed wrote: A noob isn't worth squat. They haven't paid a sub for any length of time nor contributed to the game in any shape or form, good or bad. Why they feel they deserve something for free is beyond me. That was quite a statement. Didn't you know that the current noobs are the future of EVE? Or are you planning to roll new alts for every vet that leaves the game? Besides, they won't get anything special with this change that you wouldn't get too. Caliph Muhammed wrote: Aside from that this idea is poorly thought out. I would absolutely take my focused 5's right into low sec and park for the etra +3 and nothing would change. Wasn't that an exceptionally poorly thought out reply? There is a reason, you know, why your focused +5s reside in empire and I can see that you feel threatened by this idea. But I welcome you to lowsec and please bring your implants too.
RavenTesio Liandri Corporation 18	Posted - 2012.05.06 14:44:00 - [26] - Quote I don't understand the issue here really. If you're in null-sec (or low to a lesser extent) then your earning potencial is far greater. +3 Implants via LP Stores are only 25,000,000 isk +4 Implants via LP Stores are only 60,000,000 isk Anyone who is out in Low / Null will have spent far more than that on their ship. Sure if you purchase them from the market they are considerably more, but that said there are relatively high chances in Null-Sec for a rat to drop a single implant (such-as a low-grade Crystal or such) that cover the cost of the Skill Implants entirely. When you add to that there are Jump Clones, sure this means for 24hrs you have the implants in that Jump Clone; but that is then entirely up to the pilot. Risk Implant Costs or have 24 hr reduced training time... for most rookies the training time difference is absolutely negliable. Even with a full set of +4s, from Trial to Fly say a Stealth Bomber; you only get a reduction of 3 Days TOTAL. This is completely different when you're talking Battlecruisers or Tech 2 Battleships, where these implants can reduce training time by almost 2 weeks in the most extreme cases. If anything I'd say realistically the advantage with changing this goes entirely to players who are older who need Level 5 skills with 5x + Multipliers. Who imo should already know the damn risks of flying with expensive implants (which isn't what I'd class Base Attribute Implants, when full sets of Slave / Crystal / Halo / etc... are around 1+ billion) There has been no reasons past "Loosing Implants puts off new Players to Null-Sec", but honestly Null-Sec isn't the best environment for new players; more likely players are going to be put off by their inability to earn money, feel useless in a fleet and sheer mind-numbing boredom. Honestly how often do Null-Sec Alliances come down to Low-Sec each week, or hell even each day? I see many of them on a daily damn basis, perhaps you should think about far more about what is ACTUALLY wrong with Null-Sec as opposed to trying to change it to get more new blood out there. To me the system we have now is brutal, but fair and works fine. If Rookies can't handle loosing their implants in Low/Null-Sec they should stay out of them because they're not ready for it yet... combat is about either making someone else lose something, or losing something yourself - there is no grey area of carebear hand holding, the sooner Rookies learn this the better. Not having to Learn the Learning Skills, Being Cloaked After Jumping, etc... Rookie pilots today already have more than enough advantages to train quickly and survive better; they don't need any more.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 132	Posted - 2012.05.06 20:22:00 - [27] - Quote So I can just probe out a highsec WH entry to WH space, bypass gate camps, create a safe spot in the system and idle in a covert ops indefinitely for any alt I'm not using and get training bonuses and not buy +5's? Seems like an excellent training accelerator. Please do.
Lexmana Imperial Stout 413	Posted - 2012.05.07 05:10:00 - [28] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: So I can just probe out a highsec WH entry to WH space, bypass gate camps, create a safe spot in the system and idle in a covert ops indefinitely for any alt I'm not using and get training bonuses and not buy +5's? Seems like an excellent training accelerator. Please do. That is correct. Compared to now you would get +1 attribute buff in low/null and -2 in highsec.
Trollin Perkone Caldari State 14	Posted - 2012.05.08 03:14:00 - [29] - Quote fine as long as effect be magnified for the undocked, or marginalized for the docked
Caliph Muhammed Short Bus Friends 114	Posted - 2012.05.08 10:19:00 - [30] - Quote Lexmana wrote: Caliph Muhammed wrote: A noob isn't worth squat. They haven't paid a sub for any length of time nor contributed to the game in any shape or form, good or bad. Why they feel they deserve something for free is beyond me. That was quite a statement. Didn't you know that the current noobs are the future of EVE? Or are you planning to roll new alts for every vet that leaves the game? Besides, they won't get anything special with this change that you wouldn't get too. Caliph Muhammed wrote: Aside from that this idea is poorly thought out. I would absolutely take my focused 5's right into low sec and park for the etra +3 and nothing would change. Wasn't that an exceptionally poorly thought out reply? There is a reason, you know, why your focused +5s reside in empire and I can see that you feel threatened by this idea. But I welcome you to lowsec and please bring your implants too. The game doesn't require a ever increasing amount of players to survive. The level isn't for me to say as i'm not in charge of the company but its statement doesn't give weight to your argument either. Veterans don't quit EVE at any greater rate than gnubs come into EVE and stay. Truthfully, it's better to keep those you have than gamble for those you do not. And a fresh off the boat gnub has did nothing for the game at that point to warrant being given a special bonus in hopes they stick around. Sorry, we're all stocked up on bullshit guilt trips here, especially ones with no evidence to support it being used to justify a personal want. Your personal want. My 5s go anywhere I want them to as i'm wealthy and can afford to lose them. I'm also doing okay outside of EVE and if I were to go broke tomorrow i'd be able to buy plex to solve the problem. As to your threat of coming to low sec, here's one for you. Declare the war and bring it. Don't talk sh.it on the boards, because you don't impress me.



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