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Can a thorax compete with a rupture?

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Deloreian	Posted - 2009.04.26 18:15:00 - [1] So i am watching some videos lately of ruptures taking out recons/BS's and some HACS, also taking on inties etc. So am i just going to have to train for the rupture to get this kind of performance out of a t1 cruiser? I love cruisers and i love to fly them however i am not sure if the thorax can compete. Below is the fit, is a web a better idea then the booster i am thinking it probably is. Heavy Electron Blaster II/Caldari Navy Antimatter Heavy Electron Blaster II/Caldari Navy Antimatter Heavy Electron Blaster II/Caldari Navy Antimatter Heavy Electron Blaster II/Caldari Navy Antimatter Heavy Electron Blaster II/Caldari Navy Antimatter 10mn Named MWD Named Scrambler Medium Cap Booster/Web Reactor control unit II 1600 rolled tungsten plate Damage control II Mag field stabilizer II EANM II 5x Warrior II 5x Small ECM drones
Liang Nuren No Salvation PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.04.26 18:22:00 - [2] Ah, the subject of eternal debate. The simple answer is 'yes', because you said compete with. The hard answer would be deciding which is better :) -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Deloreian	Posted - 2009.04.26 18:27:00 - [3] Originally by: Liang Nuren Ah, the subject of eternal debate. The simple answer is 'yes', because you said compete with. The hard answer would be deciding which is better :) -Liang Id say the rupture has the edge, however i have t2 blaster spec @ V and do not have t2 projectiles
Lilith Velkor Minmatar OVERLOAD. Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2009.04.26 18:31:00 - [4] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 26/04/2009 18:32:28 If both are properly fit and flown, I'd say Thorax is the better ship but that my opinion. Take into account the Recons and HACs that got killed in the vids you saw were most likely complete failfits that could've been beaten by a clever frigate pilot.
Deloreian	Posted - 2009.04.26 18:41:00 - [5] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 26/04/2009 18:32:28 If both are properly fit and flown, I'd say Thorax is the better ship but that my opinion. Take into account the Recons and HACs that got killed in the vids you saw were most likely complete failfits that could've been beaten by a clever frigate pilot. Would properly fit be considered the fit i posted?
Liang Nuren No Salvation PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.04.26 18:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Deloreian Would properly fit be considered the fit i posted? IMO, no. I'd go with a set of Ions and an 800 plate. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Boz Wel	Posted - 2009.04.26 19:05:00 - [7] I consider the two very competitive, although I fly on Ruptures. I will say though, I prefer a fit with 5 small neutron II's over the Heavy Electron setup. You still have the 1600mm plate, but you have an extra low slot that you can fill with a second mag stab or second EANM. You can get almost as much damage with those light neutrons (I think it's something like 15 dps off), but you get better tracking and have more flexibility in your lows. Also, I would probably use scram/web and ditch the cap booster. You aren't going to have much cap with everything running, but once you land scram/web they shouldn't be escaping.
Euriti Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.04.26 19:05:00 - [8] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Deloreian Would properly fit be considered the fit i posted? IMO, no. I'd go with a set of Ions and an 800 plate. -Liang The 1600mm version loses slightly less DPS but gains ALOT more HP compared to the DPS loss. The 1600mm version should always be fitted with MWD/Web/Scram(or 24km point) and 2x MFS. ______________________________________________
Deloreian	Posted - 2009.04.26 19:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Euriti Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Deloreian Would properly fit be considered the fit i posted? IMO, no. I'd go with a set of Ions and an 800 plate. -Liang The 1600mm version loses slightly less DPS but gains ALOT more HP compared to the DPS loss. The 1600mm version should always be fitted with MWD/Web/Scram(or 24km point) and 2x MFS. SO that exact same fit but replace the EANM with a 2nd MFS?
Liang Nuren No Salvation PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.04.26 19:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Euriti The 1600mm version loses slightly less DPS but gains ALOT more HP compared to the DPS loss. The 1600mm version should always be fitted with MWD/Web/Scram(or 24km point) and 2x MFS. Advantages of the 1600 plate fit: - 3000 EHP - Better tracking Advantages of the 800 plate fit: - Less skill intensive (Energy Grid Up 5 for the RCU II) - More agile - More damage - More range - Less ammo usage -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Deloreian	Posted - 2009.04.26 19:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 26/04/2009 19:30:46 Originally by: Euriti The 1600mm version loses slightly less DPS but gains ALOT more HP compared to the DPS loss. The 1600mm version should always be fitted with MWD/Web/Scram(or 24km point) and 2x MFS. Advantages of the 1600 plate 2x EANM fit: - 3000 EHP - Better tracking Advantages of the 800 plate fit: - Less skill intensive (Energy Grid Up 5 for the RCU II) - More agile - More damage - More range - Less ammo usage -Liang Ed: Dropping the EANM for a MFS drops your EHP advantage to 1850 EHP and you still lose out on DPS (because now the comparitor 800 plate setup can also fit a second MFS) hmm, can you post the setup you are reffering to for inquiring minds
Liang Nuren No Salvation PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.04.26 19:39:00 - [12] Originally by: Deloreian hmm, can you post the setup you are reffering to for inquiring minds [Thorax, Ion Gank Thorax] 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Vespa EC-600 x5 For slightly more tank, replace a MFS with EANM. For even more damage, fit Hammerheads. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Amitious Turkey Gallente Ammo Tech Inc	Posted - 2009.04.26 19:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 26/04/2009 18:32:28 If both are properly fit and flown, I'd say Thorax is the better ship but that my opinion. Take into account the Recons and HACs that got killed in the vids you saw were most likely complete failfits that could've been beaten by a clever frigate pilot. just to say, i took on a recon recently, good pilot, in a vexor...and won...but.. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) The writer of the article did not quote himself- Cortes
Deloreian	Posted - 2009.04.27 00:45:00 - [14] So i am getting varied answers, forums say thorax is fine solo, in game everyone is saying rupture is 10x better then the thorax solo. Which is it
Benedikt Miloslav	Posted - 2009.04.27 01:18:00 - [15] Rupture is better, but not THAT better. I find the Vexor better than the Thorax, so you might want to consider that. Or if you've got Amarr training, Arbitrator.
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.04.27 01:44:00 - [16] Plate = comedy. Fit full gank and ECM drones. [Thorax, New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Warp Disruptor I Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Vespa EC-600 x5 Your ECM drones have almost a 50% jam chance against the Rupture, so that should be plenty of tank to keep you alive while your 500 dps rips it apart. ========== Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2009.04.27 02:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Euriti Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Deloreian Would properly fit be considered the fit i posted? IMO, no. I'd go with a set of Ions and an 800 plate. -Liang The 1600mm version loses slightly less DPS but gains ALOT more HP compared to the DPS loss. The 1600mm version should always be fitted with MWD/Web/Scram(or 24km point) and 2x MFS. Fail. Go fly a Vexor.
Psiri	Posted - 2009.04.27 04:20:00 - [18] Thorax needs every bit of speed and damage it can get, there are many better ships to fly if you want a plate fit (ie ships that don't need to facehug in order to deal damage).
Mr Ignitious R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.04.27 05:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Deloreian So i am getting varied answers, forums say thorax is fine solo, in game everyone is saying rupture is 10x better then the thorax solo. Which is it RE: garmon. I hope he does not get upset about the fanboism =( I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people. Originally by: CCP Zulupark WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
Ig Neus	Posted - 2009.04.27 06:36:00 - [20] Edited by: Ig Neus on 27/04/2009 06:38:24 Originally by: Sera Ryskin Plate = comedy. Fit full gank and ECM drones. [Thorax, New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Warp Disruptor I Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Vespa EC-600 x5 Your ECM drones have almost a 50% jam chance against the Rupture, so that should be plenty of tank to keep you alive while your 500 dps rips it apart. Only problem being that the not ECM drones that most Rupture pilots tend to bring along will kill this glass cannon before you kill the (properly plated) Rupture. Maybe before you get in range in some cases. For soloing just stick with your setup. 1600mm Plate and Medium Electrons are great. 800mm and Ions are a good idea as well but I prefer the EHP increase. If you are going to fly in a bigger gang where chances to be primary in a T1 Cruiser are slim, go with a full gank setup. But in this case you should be flying a 700+ DPS Vexor anyway. Quote: So i am getting varied answers, forums say thorax is fine solo, in game everyone is saying rupture is 10x better then the thorax solo. Which is it I prefer Thorax. Main reason is the Drone Bay. 5 Medium ECM Drones ftw.
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.04.27 06:58:00 - [21] Originally by: Ig Neus Only problem being that the not ECM drones that most Rupture pilots tend to bring along will kill this glass cannon before you kill the (properly plated) Rupture. Maybe before you get in range in some cases. Hardly. With max skills and a somewhat less than realistic 1x Hammerhead II, 4x Hobgoblin II mix, a Rupture's drones will do 111 dps. That's about 120 seconds to kill the Thorax, while the Thorax will rip through even a 30k EHP 1600mm plate Rupture in 60 seconds. If the Rupture gets jammed, the Rupture dies. ========== Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
Thalene	Posted - 2009.04.27 07:01:00 - [22] Wanna hear a joke? Omen. How about another? Caracal. Carry on.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.04.27 07:13:00 - [23] Originally by: Thalene Wanna hear a joke? Omen. Quote: [Omen, PVP!????] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Co-Processor II Damage Control II Capacitor Power Relay II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Warrior II x3 YEAAAAAAH Hell, it's only got slightly less EHP than the full gank Thorax :p __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.04.27 08:26:00 - [24] Originally by: Deloreian So i am getting varied answers, forums say thorax is fine solo, in game everyone is saying rupture is 10x better then the thorax solo. Which is it The idea that Rupture is better solo is mostly because of Garmon and a few other "legendary" PvP'er who use the Rupture with much success. Projectiles have nice pg usage so can fit 1600mm plate. They also have nice falloff and tracking so Rupture can handing alot of smaller targets easier than a thorax can.
nakKEDK Gallente tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.04.27 08:35:00 - [25] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Deloreian hmm, can you post the setup you are reffering to for inquiring minds [Thorax, Ion Gank Thorax] 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Vespa EC-600 x5 For slightly more tank, replace a MFS with EANM. For even more damage, fit Hammerheads. -Liang I have had great succes with same setup except i prefer hammerheads. Normally their bait cruiser pops ,before their falcon 150km off uncloaks and locks <3 k
kyrv	Posted - 2009.04.27 09:20:00 - [26] The chance of luck is the major player considering which ship to use i.e a rifter has more chance to destroy an inty than a jaguar assaultship around 50% more damageing People do side with the raw T2 ammunition than the lucky strike faction ammunition i.e a thorax seems to be more raw on a stationary ship than rupture but that rupture takes less damage whilst orbiting as they do seem to give this impression. i'd go for tracking mod, disruptor, mwd and fit faction ammo with at least one 55% hardener in either thermic or perhapse em, good for against t2 amarr ammunitions, minmatar t1 or either gallente ammunitions.
Deloreian	Posted - 2009.04.27 09:23:00 - [27] Originally by: TimMc Originally by: Deloreian So i am getting varied answers, forums say thorax is fine solo, in game everyone is saying rupture is 10x better then the thorax solo. Which is it The idea that Rupture is better solo is mostly because of Garmon and a few other "legendary" PvP'er who use the Rupture with much success. Projectiles have nice pg usage so can fit 1600mm plate. They also have nice falloff and tracking so Rupture can handing alot of smaller targets easier than a thorax can. So does this mean the rupture is a lot better? or is it just that no one publicly flies the thorax enough for it to be a fanboi boat
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2009.04.27 09:38:00 - [28] I've seen the rupture fit two ways, with the latter being more popular: [Rupture, Nano] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Target Painter II 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Assault Missile Launcher II, Piranha Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Piranha Light Missile [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Warrior II x5 Warrior II x1 Stay out of web range, take potshots at your enemies and kill them easily, works well against other cruisers but would die to a MWDing frigate. Which brings me to the kill everything setup: [Rupture, Plated] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Warrior II x5 Warrior II x1 It's not that the first setup isn't viable, but the 2nd has far more EHP and can track close range frigates on top of that, while trading lots of agility, but you will be closer and will either outtrack your targets or outlast them; one of the plusses of ACs is the light fitting requirements.
Morel Nova z3r0 Gravity	Posted - 2009.04.27 11:22:00 - [29] thorax and rupture are very comparable ships. I'd say a rax with medium ECM drones probably has the upper hand though if you cant kill them quick enough. last time I fought a thorax in my rupture (we both used damage drones) I popped when he had 20% structure left, so pretty even fight. Put in space whales!
Absalom Marathon The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.04.27 11:24:00 - [30] There are several good cruisers. If you wanna solo I'd say Ruppie, Thorax, Arbitrator or Vexor. I love the Arbi and Vexor, really good ships.

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