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Allahs Warrior
Gallente I.M.M
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Posted - 2009.04.28 23:53:00 -
[61]
Hey guys don't spend money on GTC's, selling chars makes you far more isk for less IRL money, meaning less IRL work-time.
for 40-50$ (+20$ transfer) worth of IRL work, 0 in-game work past changing skills and buying skills, you can train up 8-10m SP and sell it for 3b or so, rather than 1.2b in GTC.
This has become 1000000000000X easier with the skill Q
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Panzram
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.29 00:10:00 -
[62]
its me im the guy on the first page that owns/runs all those r64 moons in delve. my omen has a dyspro plated promethium toilet.
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Indigo Johnson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.29 00:18:00 -
[63]
Quote: just a few observations from my time in game, and from reading the forums. eve's population can be split into two groups.
the obscenely rich, and everyone else.
the obscenely rich are the people wholding the t2 BPO's, the dysprosium moons. they are the owners of the titans, who throw away marauders on a whim.
then there is everyone else. ive been playing for two years, and i dont see how these people make this much isk.
its lead me to one inescapable conclusion. these elite are stomping on the rest of us. they might not realize it, but they are. pretty much the only way one can become one of the elite is if one does something that causes CCP to grant them a boon. your average man-on-the-street simply cant afford to buy a t2 BPO, and the opportunities to claim the space for a dysprosium moon are long since gone.
am i just wildly generating conspiracy theories, or do other people see this divide?
Invention allows you to produce more for a greater income than a single t2 bpo will ever allow - you have 3 account slots per paided account remember.
Dysprosium moons are for alliances to fight over, want to tap that isk well? Form an alliance, lead people, motivate them, take those moons.
No one stomps on you in Eve unless you let them, so if this is your default posistion I would advise you man up and re-align your view points.
There has never been an average man on the street in Eve. There are only the lead, the leaders and the leaderless. Pick your group, we all fall with one of them
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.29 00:34:00 -
[64]
The baseline income is far, far, faaaaaar too high for rich people to have any power in EVE anymore. Those who think otherwise really shouldn't be making such comments in a public manner.
There are only two currencies in competition: efficiency and willpower.
Efficiency - Being able to do more with less means being able to do it faster.
Willpower - Being persistent means defying the odds and kicking reason to the curb.
Having money is less important than knowing how to get it and use it efficiently. Then when **** hits the fan, as it always inevitably does.. having willpower is more imporant than having a huge cache of replacement toys. People will lose hope, morale and vision long before they're broken financially. On the high end, I'm not even sure its possible to break someone financially anymore.
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tadig smik
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.04.29 00:38:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Cipher7 If Dyspro were to become more common it would lose its value. The only reason it IS valuable is BECAUSE of its rarity.
Extreme wealth by necessity collects in the hands of the few, because otherwise its value disappears. If the govt started priting more money and giving it out to everybody for free, its value would quickly drop thru the floor, you would need a billion pounds to buy a loaf of bread.
Inequity is natural.
There's nothing to be ashamed of to say "I'm guess I'm just not that good." Well do your best and use what talents you have, every dog has his day.
What's shameful is when little people become jealous at their betters, proclaiming some kind of unfairness, that the game is rigged and so on.
It happens in Eve and it happens in RL and it's ugly in both cases.
Inequality is natural. Equality has to be forced. Humans are inherently unequal in quality, some are healthier, some are sickly, some are bright and intelligent, some can barely hold down a 9 to 5.
This is natural and normal.
Goonswarm started the game years after bob. They had no T2 BPO's, they had no moons, they had no Titans. They had people ratting and showing up in t1 frigates.
People say Eve is harsh, it's not, there are all kind of hidden subsidies for new players, hidden within the game design itself. The simple fact that people pay BILLIONS for %.0000001 more effectiveness means that people in cheap ships are %90 as effective as people decked out in HACs with faction gear.
Also how people train for 35 days to do %5 more damage than the next guy.
Insurance is a hidden subsidy. You can almost make money on losing t1 ships whereas T2 dont even bother to insure it.
I'm not a big fan of Goon behavior, but credit where it's due, they came they saw they conquered, fact is fact. They have dyspro moons they deserve to have them, period.
You can do the same thing, you can find 5000 people and blob the hell out of your enemies, when they see 100 t1 frigates coming at them, their e-peen will shrivel beneath their overpriced HACs. Your whole fleet is cheaper than even 1 of your enemies ships, if you come back every single night and kill 1 of their ships they will get frustrated and leave.
Schit or get off the pot.
Very well put...
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.29 00:38:00 -
[66]
Oh, the one place where having lots of money might lead to power is the market.
Unfortunately the things people buy and sell come from infinite fountains. Even the richest people might only cause a temporary bump in the game's supply and demand equilibrium. When the demand (your buy orders) evaporate, so does the bump.
If you use it to play the market and keep prices guy.. well, that's what any trader does. Not sure if it's giving you any sort of power besides the ability to make more money on that product. Cause really, when you set a new price point everyone selling that product will be making the newly improved profit margin. You're just the guy that takes all the risk if it fails.
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.29 00:48:00 -
[67]
FYI the r64 moon situation is stupid not because of their rarity but the immobility. Prices are high because the effort it takes to compete for such a moon resource is effectively beyond 90% of the playerbase, and for practical reasons, beyond another 9%.
The prices have absolutely nothing to do with their rarity. If moon resources depleted and respawned elsewhere (keeping their relative rarity the same), there would be two avenues of competition: conquest and exploration/prospecting. Instead of taking it from someone, you'd lay claim first and defend it while its worth something and capitalize on your quick reaction time or scouting efforts.
Prices would drop to a third of what they are easily.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.04.29 00:51:00 -
[68]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist You're just the guy that takes all the risk if it fails.
...sets up buy orders for 10,000 waffles, cheap, waits until most are filled but holds on to them ...buys up all 5,000 waffles on the market right now at a half-decent price ...screams "omg, BUY WAFFLES, insane price raise!" ...watches as people scramble like crazy to buy up all remaining crazy-high waffles on the market ...sells enough waffles to cover most of the initial investment yet still have a huge stockpile of waffles ...constantly undercuts people on sell orders by large margins ...screams "omg, SELL WAFFLES, market crash, panic!" ...watches even more amused as people crash the market even harder to rock bottom ...repeats the cycle
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Chraiz
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.04.29 01:02:00 -
[69]
Can't be bothered reading through 3 pages but I'll do what most people do and throw in my two cents. I've played on and off for a few years and accepted that much like in any MMO people who can commit more time or have played longer are always going to have more money, gear (ships and modules) and in EVE's case territory than people that can only play an hour or two per day.
EVE sometimes appears even worse because to even get you're foot in the door with a big corp you often needs masses of skill points** which amount to a good amount of playtime so new players are too intimidated to leave high sec until they can get into a corp. Then there's the view that any corp that recruits actively is not worth joining which prevents new players even applying for corps sometimes. Neither of which encourages new players to do anything but mine or run missions which are boring as hell.
Sorry what was the question again?
**This can be equated to gear and suck like in other games. To join the "best" guilds (corps) you already need to have commited hours to playing and prove yourself before you can get in while at the same time anyone that is already at that level of play is most likely in a good corp/guild. Catch 22 in a way unless you leave you're current corp and join a new one.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.29 01:03:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: DigitalCommunist You're just the guy that takes all the risk if it fails.
...sets up buy orders for 10,000 waffles, cheap, waits until most are filled but holds on to them ...buys up all 5,000 waffles on the market right now at a half-decent price ...screams "omg, BUY WAFFLES, insane price raise!" ...watches as people scramble like crazy to buy up all remaining crazy-high waffles on the market ...sells enough waffles to cover most of the initial investment yet still have a huge stockpile of waffles ...constantly undercuts people on sell orders by large margins ...screams "omg, SELL WAFFLES, market crash, panic!" ...watches even more amused as people crash the market even harder to rock bottom ...repeats the cycle
/me watches the lightbulb go off over scores of frustrated traders who where about to give up..
Gee thanks Akita..
Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Jinx Barker
Caldari GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2009.04.29 01:04:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: DigitalCommunist You're just the guy that takes all the risk if it fails.
...sets up buy orders for 10,000 waffles, cheap, waits until most are filled but holds on to them ...buys up all 5,000 waffles on the market right now at a half-decent price ...screams "omg, BUY WAFFLES, insane price raise!" ...watches as people scramble like crazy to buy up all remaining crazy-high waffles on the market ...sells enough waffles to cover most of the initial investment yet still have a huge stockpile of waffles ...constantly undercuts people on sell orders by large margins ...screams "omg, SELL WAFFLES, market crash, panic!" ...watches even more amused as people crash the market even harder to rock bottom ...repeats the cycle
Now I know why there is a waffle shortage in Romania.... Now we know whom to blame!
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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ShadowGod56
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Posted - 2009.04.29 01:53:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
Do you wanna get married? I cook!
( I would have to keep my T2 BPOs in lockdown though, knowing Istvaan I would wind up relaxing after a good bang, and he be half way to Jita with my precioussssssss.)
holy **** i think i just layed an egg!
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Trustworthy Joe
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Posted - 2009.04.29 01:54:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: DigitalCommunist You're just the guy that takes all the risk if it fails.
...sets up buy orders for 10,000 waffles, cheap, waits until most are filled but holds on to them ...buys up all 5,000 waffles on the market right now at a half-decent price ...screams "omg, BUY WAFFLES, insane price raise!" ...watches as people scramble like crazy to buy up all remaining crazy-high waffles on the market ...sells enough waffles to cover most of the initial investment yet still have a huge stockpile of waffles ...constantly undercuts people on sell orders by large margins ...screams "omg, SELL WAFFLES, market crash, panic!" ...watches even more amused as people crash the market even harder to rock bottom ...repeats the cycle
this might be the best description of how to play the market i have ever heard. between this and your epic posts on the TPB thread, you win the internets for the week _______________________
with a name as trustworthy as mine, i cant POSSIBLY be an alt
Originally by: CCP Navigator I locked this thread BECAUSE OF FALCON
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Sir Substance
Minmatar Deep Black Industries House of Mercury
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Posted - 2009.04.29 02:16:00 -
[74]
Originally by: AllUrIskRBelongtoMee
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter and buy your audio tape on how to make 400+billion.
i too would.....wait a minute!
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.29 07:50:00 -
[75]
Ok I will accept the OP's challange and turn my alt into one of these elite. I am starting off with 7.5 mil isk, a blackbird BPO and a poor mans miner with two stip miners on it.
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Xia Kairui
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Posted - 2009.04.29 08:01:00 -
[76]
Sorry OP, but IMO you're doing it wrong.
There will ALWAYS be someone who has more than you. Stop worrying about that, and repeat after me:
"It's a game, I will do what I enjoy there."
As long as you'll follow that mantra you'll stop worrying about people who are richer than you and will like your time in EVE much more.
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Torlin Valric
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:11:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Those who are lazy or uncommited, won't.
This is not true. I'm very lazy but i am rich (unfortunately only ingame). Often i see new ways to make loads of money but i don't bother anymore.
It's very easy to make money in this game.
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MR trun
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:15:00 -
[78]
the ops right,
salvage, industry, mining, plexing, wspace not on this make isk it all a helping hand from ccp.
that why i'm so poor ok i'm not mega rich like the guy with 400+ b in my walet but i build and sell and buy bpos and it all adds up very fast.
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Sanguis Sanies
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:17:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
I'm going to be the first to call shenanigans and say that this was done on Singularity or Multiplicity; the test servers. |
Grimpak
Gallente Clubs and Diamonds
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:27:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Sanguis Sanies
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
I'm going to be the first to call shenanigans and say that this was done on Singularity or Multiplicity; the test servers.
istvaan? don't think so
also, multiplicity? thought it was BH/dev only there. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:35:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Sanguis Sanies
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
I'm going to be the first to call shenanigans and say that this was done on Singularity or Multiplicity; the test servers.
Nah, I call shenenigans on grounds that he's hiding a lot of his ISK on other alts instead of letting us see it all.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:49:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Secondly: The players with the drive and dedication to make money, will have money. Those who are lazy or uncommited, won't. Is this unfair? No! Your ****ing lazy! Admit it, and welcome the fact that you'll always be broke, instead of being jealous of the people who are harder working or more lucky than you! Hell, that's what I did
Not really... I make, given my RL time investment in the game (not much, thank you very much RL work), plenty of money, and I'd be the first person to say I'm laid-back and lazy in my approach to EVE. It's not a job for me, it's a game, one I intend to enjoy rather than feel that if I only did 39 hours this week instead of 40, I've committed some cardinal sin.
As to OP, it only matters if you care that those people are obscenely rich. Relax, enjoy, blow stuff up. Does it really matter that much? Given the comparisons with RL, do you spend all day agonising that George Soros has billions and that you don't?
Far better to accept that in truth ISK is a meaningless number that disappears the moment EVE is turned off, and that the fun, memories, and enjoyable experience is what counts. Oh and that some groups just have enough money that fighting them should be for fun, not some idealistic goal of causing them to run out of money. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:51:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Sanguis Sanies
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
I'm going to be the first to call shenanigans and say that this was done on Singularity or Multiplicity; the test servers.
Nah, I call shenenigans on grounds that he's hiding a lot of his ISK on other alts instead of letting us see it all.
I know. My first thought was 'Thats it?'.
Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 11:44:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Akita T Nah, I call shenenigans on grounds that he's hiding a lot of his ISK on other alts instead of letting us see it all.
I know. My first thought was 'Thats it?'.
Yeah. I was about to eat some humble pie on all the "it's hard to count the figures in contract scams" whines since it didn't make much sense the first couple of times I looked at it. Fortunately, Akita made it reasonable again… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Kale Kold
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 11:59:00 -
[85]
Originally by: bnogo here's the big secret. big isk in empire does not come from missions.
Big ISK from any sec does NOT come from missions.
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Confuzer
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.04.29 12:17:00 -
[86]
To the OP: I am slightly older then you in eve, and still managed to get enough. You are doing something wrong ^^ ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Liz Laser
Outland Research and Development Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.04.29 12:23:00 -
[87]
Why exactly do we need to be elite rich?
I have spare ships and spare isk. I'm involved in a 0.0 war big enough to have a running commentary in CAOD and yet I have lost one ship in 6 days.
Even though I've seen close to a 100 bubbles this week...with a modi****of sense, decent FCs, and the occassional use of a cloak even a 0.0 war isn't expensive for me.
Maybe I need phat titan money, and just don't know it.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.04.29 12:45:00 -
[88]
istvaan was... tyrrax' alt? *confused* - putting the gist back into logistics |
Confuzer
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.04.29 13:29:00 -
[89]
If he has 400bil+ in liquids on one char - which is stupid as an investment - then he must have LOTS more in assets and other chars...
Respect. I wonder if he has more then 1.2tril. The largest ammount I heared of, which was totally from one player. ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.04.29 14:03:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 29/04/2009 14:03:32 Nah, I don't have more than that in assets. Probably way, way less. The screenshot was taken, I think, after we stole our 4th MS - and no, I don't usually keep the cash on my main :p
Assets wise, I just have a few luxury toys, faction BS, capitals and pimped out HACs and such to play around in. I keep my hangars pretty clean.
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