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Sir Substance
Minmatar
Deep Black Industries
House of Mercury
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Posted - 2009.04.28 04:10:00 -
[1]
just a few observations from my time in game, and from reading the forums. eve's population can be split into two groups.
the obscenely rich, and everyone else.
the obscenely rich are the people wholding the t2 BPO's, the dysprosium moons. they are the owners of the titans, who throw away marauders on a whim.
then there is everyone else. ive been playing for two years, and i dont see how these people make this much isk.
its lead me to one inescapable conclusion. these elite are stomping on the rest of us. they might not realize it, but they are. pretty much the only way one can become one of the elite is if one does something that causes CCP to grant them a boon. your average man-on-the-street simply cant afford to buy a t2 BPO, and the opportunities to claim the space for a dysprosium moon are long since gone.
am i just wildly generating conspiracy theories, or do other people see this divide?
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bnogo
Caldari
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.04.28 04:12:00 -
[2]
you are clearly on something.
i have managed to make billions off of cheap t1 bpo's and production. here's the big secret. big isk in empire does not come from missions.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.28 04:13:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Sir Substance
the obscenely rich are the people wholding the t2 BPO's, the dysprosium moons. they are the owners of the titans, who throw away marauders on a whim.
Amusing that I could very well be considered obscenely rich and have none of those isk making items.
Originally by: Achar Losa
i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Serj Reaper
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.28 04:15:00 -
[4]
Am I the only one who thinks that this thread could basically describe the real world?
The people who know how to make the money will always have most of the money. Even if they wiped everyone's isk overnight and all their assets pretty soon the same people that have billions upon billions now would once again have many times more than the people who still didn't have more before.
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Sir Substance
Minmatar
Deep Black Industries
House of Mercury
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Posted - 2009.04.28 04:17:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Serj Reaper
Am I the only one who thinks that this thread could basically describe the real world?
of course it describes the real world. im wondering how many parallels eve has with RL
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.04.28 04:18:00 -
[6]
The "obscenely rich" are seldom just one person, they're usually large groups of people, and when it comes down to it, the average wealth per individual in the power block is not all that high.
The truly "obscenely rich" individuals rarely bother with the political/territorial things, and they have obtained their ISK by a combination of guile, luck, patience and long-term gameplay.
You say you have been playing for two years and you don't know how people make a lot of ISK ?
Then let me ask you, JUST EXACTLY HOW MUCH ISK DO YOU MAKE ?
And to give you some pretty normal estimates, a single player with two decently-skilled accounts running L4 missions 40 hours a week makes more than 100 bilion ISK a year... a half-decent trader or a T1 manufacturer can rake in a comparable amount of ISK per year with much less time spent online... and the list could go on and on.
You can complain about the "obscenely rich" as much as you want to, but the more likely scenario is that you simply suck at making ISK, or aren't ready to actually WORK ingame to make that amount of ISK (which nobody could really blame you for, since, hey, it's a game - but then again, for THOSE "obscenely rich" players, it's _NOT_ "just a game", so... yeah).
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.28 04:25:00 -
[7]
First: If you want a dyso moon, make friends, build your own alliance, and take it from them. At one point in time, not that long ago, Goons didn't exist. If you think it's so easy to have and to hold, feel free to do it yourself.
Secondly: The players with the drive and dedication to make money, will have money. Those who are lazy or uncommited, won't. Is this unfair? No! Your ****ing lazy! Admit it, and welcome the fact that you'll always be broke, instead of being jealous of the people who are harder working or more lucky than you! Hell, that's what I did 
Thirdly: If you've been playing two years and haven't figured out how to make that much money, see second point.
Fourthly: BoB just lost all it's Dyso moons a few months ago. Are you sure those opportunities you speak of are gone? Or are you simply too lazy to make them yourself?
CCP should not help players who can't figure it out for themselves. This is why EvE is better than the silly childrens games that call themselves 'MMOs'. Don't hate other people cause you don't have the drive or understanding. Don't even hate yourself. Realize what you aren't good at and what you are. Standing around contemplating how unfair life is cause someone is doing better at something than you? An effort in immaturity.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.04.28 04:34:00 -
[8]
I dunno about you, but I see faction battleships with billions worth of modules equipped on them all the time in high sec.
You are suffering from what we experts call "whiny jealous loser syndrome" or WJLS for short
Originally by: CCP Whisper
So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.04.28 04:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Akita T
And to give you some pretty normal estimates, a single player with two decently-skilled accounts running L4 missions 40 hours a week makes more than 100 bilion ISK a year... a half-decent trader or a T1 manufacturer can rake in a comparable amount of ISK per year with much less time spent online... and the list could go on and on.
40 ... hours ... a ... week.
Thats actually the kind of people that should seek professional help, and considering Eve is actually the only kind of life they have they should make more prolly.
Just my opinion. Thanks for that comment though, I was already considering myself a game addict, I feel very relieved now.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.28 04:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Akita T
And to give you some pretty normal estimates, a single player with two decently-skilled accounts running L4 missions 40 hours a week makes more than 100 bilion ISK a year... a half-decent trader or a T1 manufacturer can rake in a comparable amount of ISK per year with much less time spent online... and the list could go on and on.
40 ... hours ... a ... week.
Thats actually the kind of people that should seek professional help, and considering Eve is actually the only kind of life they have they should make more prolly.
Just my opinion. Thanks for that comment though, I was already considering myself a game addict, I feel very relieved now.
If you think you might be a game addict, you are
Some people have a lot of spare time. If they don't let it affect their lives, then more power to them. But someone can be an addict playing only one hour a week, if they are so dedicated they'd leave their wife in the hospital just to make that appointment.
One of those crazy things with addiction. It's not the quantity, but the NEED.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.04.28 04:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sir Substance
Hey I like your sig.
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.04.28 05:14:00 -
[12]
People dont seem to understand the magnitude. They think because they made billions that they are wealthy.
Currently there are enough buy orders up for me to safely say you can sell 1 unit of Dysprosium for 180,000 isk.
So here is the math:
180,000 * 100 (units per hour) = 18 million
18,000,000 * 24 (hours in a day) = 432 million
432,000,000 * 30 (day in a month) = 12.96 billion
12,960,000,000 * 10 (Dysprosium moons in Delve) = 129.6 billion isk per month
Dysprosium is 10 of the 45 high end moons in Delve.
Now do you get it? What do capitals cost? What do super capitals cost? Or even more important... what is the going rate for 60 Day GTC's... On the Dysprosium moons in Delve alone you could pay for 432 accounts. Sinking in yet? Feel the imbalance?
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.04.28 05:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sig Sour
People dont seem to understand the magnitude. They think because they made billions that they are wealthy.
Currently there are enough buy orders up for me to safely say you can sell 1 unit of Dysprosium for 180,000 isk.
So here is the math:
180,000 * 100 (units per hour) = 18 million
18,000,000 * 24 (hours in a day) = 432 million
432,000,000 * 30 (day in a month) = 12.96 billion
12,960,000,000 * 10 (Dysprosium moons in Delve) = 129.6 billion isk per month
Dysprosium is 10 of the 45 high end moons in Delve.
Now do you get it? What do capitals cost? What do super capitals cost? Or even more important... what is the going rate for 60 Day GTC's... On the Dysprosium moons in Delve alone you could pay for 432 accounts. Sinking in yet? Feel the imbalance?
does one dude run all those moons? does one CORP run all those moons? does the corp share that isk with everyone? hell no, they feed the war machine. You're deluded if you think one dude in goons somehow got to single handedly run all the moons in delve.
Sov mechanics as they are lame and grindtastic but you're asking to make extreme wealth more accessible to people who want to hide in high sec. If you want isk you should get your ass off of concord's teet and get your hands dirty.
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.04.28 05:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
40 ... hours ... a ... week
Think "kid with nothing better to do in the weekends" and you're already halfway there. Add 4 hours a day during weekdays, and voila, 40 hours a week. It's not a game, it's a JOB
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Marc deBourgogne
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Posted - 2009.04.28 05:29:00 -
[15]
If you want to work 40 hours a week at 10 Euro per hour you'll make 400Ç a week or 20800Ç a year.
A GTC is 23 Euro's for 60 day's selling at 600.000.000 isk a piece.
So, 20800/23 = 904 GTC's to sell per year, making 904 * 600.000.000 isk = 542.400.000.000 isk
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.04.28 05:30:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mr Ignitious
does one dude run all those moons? does one CORP run all those moons? does the corp share that isk with everyone? hell no, they feed the war machine. You're deluded if you think one dude in goons somehow got to single handedly run all the moons in delve.
Sov mechanics as they are lame and grindtastic but you're asking to make extreme wealth more accessible to people who want to hide in high sec. If you want isk you should get your ass off of concord's teet and get your hands dirty.
Wow, hello troll. I never said 1 dude ran them. I never said anything about me living in high sec.
You guys still protecting that moon for Pandemic Legion in 9-4 cause you are scared of them dropping 180 capitals on you and destroying everything you worked for without them batting an eye? Or did you cat out and start paying them rent?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.04.28 05:33:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/04/2009 05:34:00
Originally by: Marc deBourgogne
If you want to work 40 hours a week at 10 Euro per hour
There are a lot of adults on this planet that would consider themselves to be damn lucky to be able to GET a job paying 1600 euro per month AND only having to work 40 hours a week.
Heck, there's enough countries where 200 euro a month would be "living the good life".
Start talking teenagers or students, and 10 euro per hour sounds too good to be true for a lot more.
Of course, there's others that would consider 10 euro per hour an insultingly low wage.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.04.28 05:35:00 -
[18]
It's true that certain aspects of the game are not really competitive for individuals, since they can't go toe to toe with the bigger entities. But that was a foregone conclusion. It just needed time to develop. At this point if you want to compete in the market you either need to join one of those entities or destroy them.
It's all working as intended as far as I'm concerned, and doesn't bother me much. The same situation also exists in some form with other aspects of the game, including piracy. One person, or even one corp on their own can have a lot of trouble finding non-consenting targets amidst the roaming pirate alliances, so RHN became a part of one of those alliances. We've got resistance from a few neighbors (Invicta & allies  ) sure, but since we're part of an alliance machine we wield the capability to dominate pretty much any system we want until we get bored. Just like with your industrialist troubles the choice is join in on the action with the establishment, or get out of the way and wallow in irrelevance.
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.04.28 05:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sig Sour
Originally by: Mr Ignitious
does one dude run all those moons? does one CORP run all those moons? does the corp share that isk with everyone? hell no, they feed the war machine. You're deluded if you think one dude in goons somehow got to single handedly run all the moons in delve.
Sov mechanics as they are lame and grindtastic but you're asking to make extreme wealth more accessible to people who want to hide in high sec. If you want isk you should get your ass off of concord's teet and get your hands dirty.
Wow, hello troll. I never said 1 dude ran them. I never said anything about me living in high sec.
You guys still protecting that moon for Pandemic Legion in 9-4 cause you are scared of them dropping 180 capitals on you and destroying everything you worked for without them batting an eye? Or did you cat out and start paying them rent?
You can insult me and/or my alliance/corp all you like, it does not change the fact your argument for this whole thread is about people having astronomical sums of wealth. When you say that there are people who are obscenely wealthy you are referring to individuals and your examples are HUGE power bloc alliances.
Unless you can show us somehow that all the isk these alliances generate is all in one or even a very small group of people per alliance to do with what they want leisurely is just wrong. The alliances that hold all those high end moons are generally VERY large and have a lot of maintenance on their space. They don't get to go out with their 100+bil isk per month and joy ride with it, they buy fuel, they replace caps, they pay office fees.
You make it sound like the higher ups of large alliances are just billionaire playboys lollying through eve. If anything they have sacrificed a lot of fun of eve and made into work. Anyone who DOES make all that isk has sacrificed to get it.
P.S. I find it funny when you say I'm a troll because I attacked your argument.
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Graaaah
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Posted - 2009.04.28 05:45:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mr Ignitious
does one dude run all those moons? does one CORP run all those moons? does the corp share that isk with everyone? hell no, they feed the war machine. You're deluded if you think one dude in goons somehow got to single handedly run all the moons in delve.
Sov mechanics as they are lame and grindtastic but you're asking to make extreme wealth more accessible to people who want to hide in high sec. If you want isk you should get your ass off of concord's teet and get your hands dirty.
I dont rember any one saying any thing about highsec. that said if one alliance holds 5 des moons they can afford to lose 32 caps a month with out blinking and that is if they buy them and fit them off market prices. most have a indy backing and would be albe to build them for much lower. so here is how it goes you fancy your self a despro moon and you build your self a corp. then you start an allince and you get 1000 people in that allince. lets say you work togeather and build you self a dred fleet of 10% of you allince. so you go and put the pos in to renforce in 5 min along with taking out the guns. now you have done the easy part you go home fealing good about your self and 2 days latter you come back to take the pos. sitting at the pos is a scout or 10 not to much of a worrie just a scout right. some pos gunners man the guns and start to shoot you and you sige you dreads and then 5 cynos open up and a 200man cap fleet is droped on you. lets say you can handle 2-1 cap odds and you kill 60% of them but lose 80% of your fleet. you guys get the moon\o/. 2 days latter the 160 caps you took out have been replaced and your still working on getting back 5% of your loses they come wipe out you pos and any thing you send to defend it. 1/2 your alliance quits or just does not log on any more and now your screwed.
there is a reason why bob only went down becuse of a spy. any loses they took up until then would be replaced in days. this is also why goon teamed up with sevreal other allinces to take them down and still could not do it with force. there are a few changes that could help with this
1. a reworking of the alcamy system so you can make the high end mins and not take a huge loss.
2. change how sov is held making it more like the faction war stuff (or some thing else its just an idea)
3. seed t2 bpos so that any one could buy them they could be crazy priced like t2 frig bpo cost 10b. it would make making copies through invention still good but any one could save up and get a bpo.
4.make moon mins depleatable and then shift where they are (this one kinda sucks as an idea but at least i am trying and not just wining)
5. change how caps work or some thing (now i am just trying to make up stuff so i will stop here)
but that said i dont find that goon making 120b a month has much effect on me since i no longer give a s**t about pos war and sov stuff. they cant kill what i dont have.
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StealthGerbils
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Posted - 2009.04.28 05:48:00 -
[21]
while it is possible to get pretty rich, it requires a ton of work. for instance, im running a sylramic fiber chain by myself. sure it brings in a decent amount of money but its a good deal of work just to get it running. and profitable. anyone with a few large poses could do the same as I am.
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.04.28 06:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Graaaah
An unnecessary amount of words for me to quote.
The reason I brought up high sec was because the most common recurring tone set by all of these "eve isn't fair! a few rich people control everything and I can't stop them cuz 0.0 is scary!" I'm a solo aficionado but even I recognize that if you want to acquire such vast amounts of power and wealth it's going to take numbers, and you aren't going to find it somewhere where concord is watching your back.
I already admitted the current sov mechanics are tedious and biased but I will not concede to catering every whim of people who aren't willing to sacrifice as much as those who do currently have wealth.
The point of 0.0 is to have opportunity for great wealth at the cost of high risk and hard work. This should NOT be changed so that the same profit is attainable anywhere else (ie: high sec). If anyone/group of people want obscene amounts of isk they should have to dedicate the time and effort to 0.0 like everyone else. I repeat myself for clarity: I agree that current sov mechanics are biased and borked and need a rework, but the difficulty should still be there.
And for all that isk from those alliances buying straight dreads and caps, thats funny. I already tried to remind you but they have to pay their alliance fees, station fees, fuel costs (cap jumps, jump bridges, pos fuel), they don't lose just caps there are conventionals that get lost too.
And for t2 BPO's: thing of the past, some are around, but we have invention now. Get with the program. yes those bpo's are a hefty advantage and what luck to the owners, I'm quite jealous. Weird though, I'm content with the 200mil in my wallet and 5 ships in my hangar. According to this thread I'm flat ass broke yet I'm perfectly happy and not at all angry I'm not made of isk. I don't envy the stress and work others put into running all their pos's and tending to the complaints of their alliance.
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Graaaah
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Posted - 2009.04.28 06:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mr Ignitious
Originally by: Graaaah
far far longer then what you typed
An unnecessary amount of words for me to quote.
unfortunatly its not a matter of risk here on an allince stand point. you could risk 100% of all you allince welth and the major allince will be able to wipe you out in seconds or at lest stop you when ever they want.
sig did have a good point although he ment it as an insult. your allince does allow pl to have a despro moon in there space and its space that you have sov 3. this is becuse you guys know even with all the friends you have the could come in a stomp you if they wanted and even if you were able to hold them off for a bit it would only be a matter of time before the won becuse they can afford to lose much more then you can.
that said you guys have your own space at the cost of letting them keep the moon cool what ever works for you. some people would not agree to that but they would die.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2009.04.28 06:47:00 -
[24]
So nowdays you become the 'elite' just by having ISK? Then anyone can buy the elite status just about any time via GTC's.
Where's the 23 when you need them?!
Win a Aeon mothership for 10M ISK |
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N.
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.04.28 06:48:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Graaaah
Stufffff
I don't want this to become CAOD so (and i'm not saying it's becoming it is) this should just be said before something does.
Ok, so as an example we have PL makin' there isk and DACO is letting them be because we can agree that PL wouldn't just sit there and let it go. You said if others tried to contest it they would be dead: agreed. Thats just showing a survivalist decision by DACO. I am not in disagreement with the situation either in reference to this thread. PL has not been around for ever, they aren't some ubiquitous alliance. They started from ground up as individual corps. They made a name for themselves and work for it.
The most significant part here I think is the last thing you said, "some people would not agree to that but they would die." It's making a sacrifice to keep space.
And I guess I haven't said it enough, but I think that the assumption of said alliances incomes is grossly misinformative. The numbers may be right, but the system isn't the perfect and convenient.
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2009.04.28 07:07:00 -
[26]
If Dyspro were to become more common it would lose its value. The only reason it IS valuable is BECAUSE of its rarity.
Extreme wealth by necessity collects in the hands of the few, because otherwise its value disappears. If the govt started priting more money and giving it out to everybody for free, its value would quickly drop thru the floor, you would need a billion pounds to buy a loaf of bread.
Inequity is natural.
There's nothing to be ashamed of to say "I'm guess I'm just not that good." Well do your best and use what talents you have, every dog has his day.
What's shameful is when little people become jealous at their betters, proclaiming some kind of unfairness, that the game is rigged and so on.
It happens in Eve and it happens in RL and it's ugly in both cases.
Inequality is natural. Equality has to be forced. Humans are inherently unequal in quality, some are healthier, some are sickly, some are bright and intelligent, some can barely hold down a 9 to 5.
This is natural and normal.
Goonswarm started the game years after bob. They had no T2 BPO's, they had no moons, they had no Titans. They had people ratting and showing up in t1 frigates.
People say Eve is harsh, it's not, there are all kind of hidden subsidies for new players, hidden within the game design itself. The simple fact that people pay BILLIONS for %.0000001 more effectiveness means that people in cheap ships are %90 as effective as people decked out in HACs with faction gear.
Also how people train for 35 days to do %5 more damage than the next guy.
Insurance is a hidden subsidy. You can almost make money on losing t1 ships whereas T2 dont even bother to insure it.
I'm not a big fan of Goon behavior, but credit where it's due, they came they saw they conquered, fact is fact. They have dyspro moons they deserve to have them, period.
You can do the same thing, you can find 5000 people and blob the hell out of your enemies, when they see 100 t1 frigates coming at them, their e-peen will shrivel beneath their overpriced HACs. Your whole fleet is cheaper than even 1 of your enemies ships, if you come back every single night and kill 1 of their ships they will get frustrated and leave.
Schit or get off the pot.
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Comrade Commizzar
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Posted - 2009.04.28 16:00:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Comrade Commizzar on 28/04/2009 16:03:52
Edited by: Comrade Commizzar on 28/04/2009 16:02:44
Comrade Commizzar swells his chest, smiles, and stares bravely into the rising sun....
"The masses are slowly awakening to the truth.."
"The inevitable forces of history will not be denied."
"Strike up the band!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpvwh292VKI&NR=1
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wowtard
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Posted - 2009.04.28 16:11:00 -
[28]
Only the t2 BPO racket gets under my skin. Moons and territory are always up for grabs, and those power blocks don't hold them without an incredible amount of organization and dedication. They do have a bit of the "firstest with the mostest" advantage, but that's life. It's not supposed to be easy to take down an entrenched power. That's part of what defines being powerful. As someone stated, if you don't like it, go get your own or take theirs.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.04.28 16:32:00 -
[29]
I was not being insulting, I was putting the guy who said this:
Originally by: Mr Ignitious
If you want isk you should get your ass off of concord's teet and get your hands dirty.
in his place. There is game mechanics causing an imbalance. This game would be more fun if it were fixed.
I think that DACO should have possession of that moon in 9-4. It only seems right. This is a game, but the rules are BROKEN when someone is extracting resources out of YOUR space and there is nothing you can do about it.
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temponita
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Posted - 2009.04.28 16:55:00 -
[30]
Edited by: temponita on 28/04/2009 16:56:00
Originally by: Sir Substance
just a few observations from my time in game, and from reading the forums. eve's population can be split into two groups.
the obscenely rich, and everyone else.
Bullcrap!
I have been and will always remain a loner(no corp) and (by all account) considered rich. I fly marauders with officer mods just for the hell of it and I made all of my money by mining and playing the market within empire space.
I started with nothing, and built my way up from there. Your point of view is not at all an accurate depiction of how things can be. But rather of a person who has realized that his or her own efforts are not directly benefiting them.
Perhaps it's time to get out of the box and seek out your own rewards.
I also know several people in empire space with well over 500 billion in their wallets without counting assets. And one other has been rumored to have over 1 trillion ISK plus assets.
So forgive me if I think this is more an end user problem than a gaming one. 
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Enthral
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Posted - 2009.04.28 16:58:00 -
[31]
The OP has the typical mindset of the mediocre. He can't make a lot of isk, therefore anyone who can is somehow getting a "hand up" from the "powers that be." These people will never get ahead, because even when given the "secret" to vast wealth, they are unwilling to do what needs to be done. I'll even give the secret right now:
Hard work.
I spend an enormous amount of time on industry. I research the market, I manage dozens of build jobs, invention jobs, research jobs, my supply lines, my distribution points... the list goes on. I've taken risks. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. I've seen multi-billion isk investments vaporize overnight. I've seen others blossom into opportunities.
I also have PvP alts in major alliances. I've seen alliances spend enormous isk and resources to take regions. I've seen some fail. I've seen others succeed, only to have it all taken away from them in one decisive battle.
Any idea what it takes to run a successful alliance? Know how fragile alliances are? Know what it is like to see tens of billions of isk wiped out in ten minutes on the battlefield? Know what it is like to see your home torn out from under you? How about the feeling of spending weeks on planning and logistics, coordinating the efforts of HUNDREDS of pilots, and finally taking that constellation? How about watching that same effort result in nothing but lost ships and demoralized players?
Maybe the OP does realize that making a ton of isk with industry is insanely difficult. Maybe he does realize that running a successful alliance involves a huge investment of time. Maybe he understands this, but just doesn't believe that some people are willing to make that investment, because he personally is too lazy to do it himself.
Hard work. That is the formula. You're either willing to put in the effort, or you aren't. Please don't insult those of us who are, because you're too lazy to do it yourself.
-Enthral
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H Lecter
Gallente
The Black Rabbits Academy
The Gurlstas Associates
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 17:06:00 -
[32]
I cannot be bothered becoming obscenely rich.
I'm busy having fun shooting people  Those Dyspro moon holders are nothing more than miners on a bigger scale. They have to manufacture and sell stuff, they need logistics, they need to WORK...
Let them get rich, I prefer to play a game 
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed resolution of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. -Weatherman |
Jhoria Englside
Caldari
Another Stupid Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 17:25:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
I dunno about you, but I see faction battleships with billions worth of modules equipped on them all the time in high sec.
You are suffering from what we experts call "whiny jealous loser syndrome" or WJLS for short
Confirming this character will be recieving ISK from said drops/mods.
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Xianbei
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 19:07:00 -
[34]
TONS of people use GTC tbh
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Grimpak
Gallente
Clubs and Diamonds
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 19:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sir Substance
just a few observations from my time in game, and from reading the forums. eve's population can be split into two groups.
the obscenely rich, and everyone else.
the obscenely rich are the people wholding the t2 BPO's, the dysprosium moons. they are the owners of the titans, who throw away marauders on a whim.
then there is everyone else. ive been playing for two years, and i dont see how these people make this much isk.
its lead me to one inescapable conclusion. these elite are stomping on the rest of us. they might not realize it, but they are. pretty much the only way one can become one of the elite is if one does something that causes CCP to grant them a boon. your average man-on-the-street simply cant afford to buy a t2 BPO, and the opportunities to claim the space for a dysprosium moon are long since gone.
am i just wildly generating conspiracy theories, or do other people see this divide?
isk, a good player does not make
just FYI btw.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Astigmatic
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 20:53:00 -
[36]
Dyspro/Prometh moon resolution.
Make resources randomly change once every 7-10 days as SWG did. This will mean that nomadic behaviour by all Corporations and Alliances will be introduced.
This also means that fat cats can't get fatter by simply sitting on their pile of gold forever. They have to work.
This will STILL promote pvp due to competition over newly discovered resources. Together with the Dynamic solution outlined here, here and here the Eve Universe comes alive.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.04.28 20:54:00 -
[37]
Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 20:55:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 28/04/2009 20:55:49
0.0 isn't supposed to be nomadic. The point of the sov system is to create clearly-defined empires. W-space exists for your nomadic needs.
Some would argue that established alliances are too hard to dislodge (and I would agree to some extent), but making everything nomadic would be pointless...not to mention that without an overhaul to the sov mechanics anyway, it would more or less just be a lottery system where the lucky alliance every couple month gets the good stuff and the unlucky ones get squat.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.04.28 20:56:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sir Substance
just a few observations from my time in game, and from reading the forums. eve's population can be split into two groups.
the obscenely rich, and everyone else.
the obscenely rich are the people wholding the t2 BPO's, the dysprosium moons. they are the owners of the titans, who throw away marauders on a whim.
then there is everyone else. ive been playing for two years, and i dont see how these people make this much isk.
its lead me to one inescapable conclusion. these elite are stomping on the rest of us. they might not realize it, but they are. pretty much the only way one can become one of the elite is if one does something that causes CCP to grant them a boon. your average man-on-the-street simply cant afford to buy a t2 BPO, and the opportunities to claim the space for a dysprosium moon are long since gone.
am i just wildly generating conspiracy theories, or do other people see this divide?
No, you're pretty much correct.
Luckily, unlike RL, in EvE you can get a ship with a bunch of big guns and do something about it other than whine to your student mates.
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Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2009.04.28 20:59:00 -
[40]
What I want to know is where the hell all this commie, socialist wackos are all coming from. All this whinage that they are unable to do something in game because it is the "other guy" that has achieved something is holding them down.
Very much like in real life, those who are smart, resilient, adventurous, sharp, cunning, flexible, inventive, risk-taking, will always, always, outperform the lazy, lax, risk-averse, dull, people.
I started this damn game with 5k ISK in wallet and a whopping 18k SP. I am well off now, and I hope to be so. Last thing I thought about is whining on the forums because the other older guys were better than me. I wanted to learn, explore, try new things and see where it will take me. Jees-Louise, come on, get out there and have fun.
Man on the street can buy a T2 BPO. I am an example, I was a man on the street who bought my BPOs as many know. I made my ISK by ratting in 0.0, playing the market, building T1 stuff. Then my fortunes improved, and I am proud owner of a number of T2 BPOs. On top of it I use my ALTs to invent like crazy, and you will be surprised - my invention outperform my T2 BPOs in profit making.
You want to be a pleb, be a pleb. Otherwise the road is open to you....
Shut up, stop whinnying, and go play the game: cheat*, kill, steal and maraud your way to the top if you must.
* By CHEAT I mean in game, within the applicable EULA rules, and in "character" if you must.
I felt the OP needed the disclaimer, as some other people in this thread who are very fond of taking things out of context.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 21:00:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Akita T
And to give you some pretty normal estimates, a single player with two decently-skilled accounts running L4 missions 40 hours a week makes more than 100 bilion ISK a year... a half-decent trader or a T1 manufacturer can rake in a comparable amount of ISK per year with much less time spent online... and the list could go on and on.
40 ... hours ... a ... week.
Thats actually the kind of people that should seek professional help, and considering Eve is actually the only kind of life they have they should make more prolly.
Just my opinion. Thanks for that comment though, I was already considering myself a game addict, I feel very relieved now.
A lot of people watch that much TV in a week...
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Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2009.04.28 21:00:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
Do you wanna get married? I cook!
( I would have to keep my T2 BPOs in lockdown though, knowing Istvaan I would wind up relaxing after a good bang, and he be half way to Jita with my precioussssssss.)
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Astigmatic
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 21:05:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 28/04/2009 20:55:49
0.0 isn't supposed to be nomadic. The point of the sov system is to create clearly-defined empires.
Who says? You are stating opinion (yours) not fact. The devs are open to opinions and discussion. Writing off the subject doesn't enable that. Are you scared?
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Equium Duo
Minmatar
Gauss Codazzi
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 21:18:00 -
[44]
Personally i'd like to see more crap space introduced to eve. The sort of space no power block would be interested, think syndicate space, or geminate. The kind of space people can barely run their deathstars on. this kind of space interests me since its the kind fo breeding ground smaller alliances need. **** dyspro cap it at r16 with maybe 1-2 r32's. But give the new guys somewhere crap to hang out in. I am not whingong that we poor folk need a leg up. (I like to think i am poor by choice) but every where has its slums.. and i think we need some more! :P |
Astigmatic
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Posted - 2009.04.28 21:21:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Astigmatic on 28/04/2009 21:25:18
meh
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Korrakas
Caldari
Legion of Ascension
Beyond Ascension
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 21:25:00 -
[46]
Originally by: temponita
Edited by: temponita on 28/04/2009 16:56:00
Originally by: Sir Substance
just a few observations from my time in game, and from reading the forums. eve's population can be split into two groups.
the obscenely rich, and everyone else.
Bullcrap!
I have been and will always remain a loner(no corp) and (by all account) considered rich. I fly marauders with officer mods just for the hell of it and I made all of my money by mining and playing the market within empire space.
I started with nothing, and built my way up from there. Your point of view is not at all an accurate depiction of how things can be. But rather of a person who has realized that his or her own efforts are not directly benefiting them.
Perhaps it's time to get out of the box and seek out your own rewards.
I also know several people in empire space with well over 500 billion in their wallets without counting assets. And one other has been rumored to have over 1 trillion ISK plus assets.
So forgive me if I think this is more an end user problem than a gaming one.
i think we gave him too much morphine.... and someone mislabelled the bottle LSD as morphine...
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't have holidays.
I don't leave the forums unattended.
I don't sleep.
I am always here.
Watching.
Waiting.
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Neo Omni
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 21:38:00 -
[47]
Actually his title sounds like the start of a communist revolution.
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 21:49:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Chribba
So nowdays you become the 'elite' just by having ISK? Then anyone can buy the elite status just about any time via GTC's.
Where's the 23 when you need them?!
lol is that still going round... or are you just old enough to remember. ;-)
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destinationunreachable
Hello Kitty Fanclub
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Posted - 2009.04.28 21:50:00 -
[49]
the OP has indeed a wrong understanding of wealth and how to acquire it.
- high-end moons are not owned by a single person, but by a large (hundreds to thousands) group. This groups has to constantly defend it and as such uses lots of money (a single battle around a pos can easily cost 100s of billions). Stuff like titans are alliance investments to secure the income.
- T2 BPO are far less profitable than invention. They only serve as investment
- single character acquire wealth just like in RL: through hard work, being smart and being lucky.
- most people I know, who have 20+ billions on their account spend a *lot* of time fine tuning their industrial system
- if you don't take risks, you don't get rich. Expect to loose a couple of times on the way
- oh, and don't spend a lot ;-) PvP can easily eat up all profits
- in one point the OP is right: once you have a lot of money, maintaining and making more it gets easier...
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.28 21:52:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sir Substance
the obscenely rich, and everyone else.
I see it as people who are willing to put in the work and those who who are not.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.28 21:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
Interesting..
Originally by: Achar Losa
i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Alora Venoda
GalTech
Whiskey Creek Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 21:55:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Equium Duo
Personally i'd like to see more crap space introduced to eve. The sort of space no power block would be interested, think syndicate space, or geminate. The kind of space people can barely run their deathstars on. this kind of space interests me since its the kind fo breeding ground smaller alliances need. **** dyspro cap it at r16 with maybe 1-2 r32's. But give the new guys somewhere crap to hang out in. I am not whingong that we poor folk need a leg up. (I like to think i am poor by choice) but every where has its slums.. and i think we need some more! :P
i agree. but there are already many crappy 0.0 systems... the main problem is they are being hoarded by the super-alliances as "territory" and charge an arm and a leg to "rent" access to it. why not make a way to form a proper confederation of alliances and allow smaller corps/alliances to become "citizens" and make use of the lower quality systems that already exist?
improvements to standings and sov mechanics would go a long way towards making it possible. but those overlords need a better reason to accept any new "citizens" into their sovereign space... or we just get the current feudal serfdom scenario. like what if they could sell starbase charters like in empire? what if the federation could automatically collect taxes in addition to corp taxes?
and of course 0.0 systems really need to be able to support many many more players... without mission agents, only ratting and mining really can't support more than 10 or 20 pilots per system.
~~~~~
Remember, EVE is a sandbox and other MMOs are rock gardens.
Pretty rocks can be collected, but collecting sand is pointless.
Instead build a sandcastle and keep it from being knocked down. |
Johli
Caldari
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 22:13:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
fap. (btw can you give me a billion)
Anyways, I know exactly how the op felt; I lived off loans, flew the same badly fit blackbird forever, screamed with joy when I got my first ferox, and my wallet never went past 20 mil.
Then, of course, they introduced salvaging and I made 200 mil in a week. Petty change now I think about it.
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Imogen Filiotov
Amarr
Gene Works
Initiative Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.28 22:33:00 -
[54]
You've been playing for 2 years and you've not figured out a route to self-support yourself? Are you stupid?
I've been playing for almost 10 months now, and make around 90-120mil per week on trading.
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Obyrith
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 22:34:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Cipher7
You can do the same thing, you can find 5000 people and blob the hell out of your enemies, when they see 100 t1 frigates coming at them, their e-peen will shrivel beneath their overpriced HACs. Your whole fleet is cheaper than even 1 of your enemies ships, if you come back every single night and kill 1 of their ships they will get frustrated and leave.
This. It's amazing more people don't realise that this is how the game has been set up. Everyone wants to fly a Tech 2 fit, rigged battleship for 20% more EHP and DPS, when they could buy a second battleship, recruit someone else to fly it and do 100% more EHP and DPS for the same price. 
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
KenZoku
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 22:46:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Chribba
So nowdays you become the 'elite' just by having ISK? Then anyone can buy the elite status just about any time via GTC's.
Where's the 23 when you need them?!
lol is that still going round... or are you just old enough to remember. ;-)
Don't listen to his evil lies.
The 23 was a myth, nothing more.
Trust me on this.
Really.
The OP is right, power is only a function of wealth, ISK is the only win.
Don't let anyone make you think otherwise dearest OP, never.
アニメ漫画です
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Anisa Schardl
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 22:55:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Astigmatic
Dyspro/Prometh moon resolution.
Make resources randomly change once every 7-10 days as SWG did. This will mean that nomadic behaviour by all Corporations and Alliances will be introduced.
This also means that fat cats can't get fatter by simply sitting on their pile of gold forever. They have to work.
This will STILL promote pvp due to competition over newly discovered resources. Together with the Dynamic solution outlined here, here and here the Eve Universe comes alive.
People who propose things like this betray their total lack of understanding of how market forces work.
The only thing your suggestion would accomplish would be a huge spike in the price of the R64s, since there would be FORCED interruptions in the supply. You would still never get a piece of any of them. They would be worth even more than they are now, and the megacorps/alliances would quickly locate the new ones when they switch, and stomp you into a mud puddle to take it.
Nobody small would get any piece of the pie. All that would happen is you'd make everyone pay increasingly large prices for T2. Has the current unrest in Delve taught you nothing? Manufacturing commodities need stability. Unrest interrupts supply and increases prices.
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AllUrIskRBelongtoMee
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 23:20:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Sir Substance
just a few observations from my time in game, and from reading the forums. eve's population can be split into two groups.
the obscenely rich, and everyone else.
the obscenely rich are the people wholding the t2 BPO's, the dysprosium moons. they are the owners of the titans, who throw away marauders on a whim.
then there is everyone else. ive been playing for two years, and i dont see how these people make this much isk.
its lead me to one inescapable conclusion. these elite are stomping on the rest of us. they might not realize it, but they are. pretty much the only way one can become one of the elite is if one does something that causes CCP to grant them a boon. your average man-on-the-street simply cant afford to buy a t2 BPO, and the opportunities to claim the space for a dysprosium moon are long since gone.
am i just wildly generating conspiracy theories, or do other people see this divide?
Until we see "CCP Obama" no one in CCP is going to come out and gift you billions upon billions of isk just for being you. Anything that would do such a thing is going to end up being screwed....
wait...
damn....
.....at least I didn't vote for the guy.
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AllUrIskRBelongtoMee
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 23:22:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter and buy your audio tape on how to make 400+billion.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.28 23:24:00 -
[60]
Op is probably sitting on a pile of R64. Hmmm wonder if CCP missed any of those scammers when they did the huge investigation and pwnd all those accounts and pos. 
Originally by: Achar Losa
i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Allahs Warrior
Gallente
I.M.M
|
Posted - 2009.04.28 23:53:00 -
[61]
Hey guys don't spend money on GTC's, selling chars makes you far more isk for less IRL money, meaning less IRL work-time.
for 40-50$ (+20$ transfer) worth of IRL work, 0 in-game work past changing skills and buying skills, you can train up 8-10m SP and sell it for 3b or so, rather than 1.2b in GTC.
This has become 1000000000000X easier with the skill Q
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Panzram
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 00:10:00 -
[62]
its me im the guy on the first page that owns/runs all those r64 moons in delve. my omen has a dyspro plated promethium toilet.
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Indigo Johnson
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 00:18:00 -
[63]
Quote:
just a few observations from my time in game, and from reading the forums. eve's population can be split into two groups.
the obscenely rich, and everyone else.
the obscenely rich are the people wholding the t2 BPO's, the dysprosium moons. they are the owners of the titans, who throw away marauders on a whim.
then there is everyone else. ive been playing for two years, and i dont see how these people make this much isk.
its lead me to one inescapable conclusion. these elite are stomping on the rest of us. they might not realize it, but they are. pretty much the only way one can become one of the elite is if one does something that causes CCP to grant them a boon. your average man-on-the-street simply cant afford to buy a t2 BPO, and the opportunities to claim the space for a dysprosium moon are long since gone.
am i just wildly generating conspiracy theories, or do other people see this divide?
Invention allows you to produce more for a greater income than a single t2 bpo will ever allow - you have 3 account slots per paided account remember.
Dysprosium moons are for alliances to fight over, want to tap that isk well? Form an alliance, lead people, motivate them, take those moons.
No one stomps on you in Eve unless you let them, so if this is your default posistion I would advise you man up and re-align your view points.
There has never been an average man on the street in Eve. There are only the lead, the leaders and the leaderless. Pick your group, we all fall with one of them
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 00:34:00 -
[64]
The baseline income is far, far, faaaaaar too high for rich people to have any power in EVE anymore. Those who think otherwise really shouldn't be making such comments in a public manner.
There are only two currencies in competition: efficiency and willpower.
Efficiency - Being able to do more with less means being able to do it faster.
Willpower - Being persistent means defying the odds and kicking reason to the curb.
Having money is less important than knowing how to get it and use it efficiently. Then when **** hits the fan, as it always inevitably does.. having willpower is more imporant than having a huge cache of replacement toys. People will lose hope, morale and vision long before they're broken financially. On the high end, I'm not even sure its possible to break someone financially anymore.
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tadig smik
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 00:38:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Cipher7
If Dyspro were to become more common it would lose its value. The only reason it IS valuable is BECAUSE of its rarity.
Extreme wealth by necessity collects in the hands of the few, because otherwise its value disappears. If the govt started priting more money and giving it out to everybody for free, its value would quickly drop thru the floor, you would need a billion pounds to buy a loaf of bread.
Inequity is natural.
There's nothing to be ashamed of to say "I'm guess I'm just not that good." Well do your best and use what talents you have, every dog has his day.
What's shameful is when little people become jealous at their betters, proclaiming some kind of unfairness, that the game is rigged and so on.
It happens in Eve and it happens in RL and it's ugly in both cases.
Inequality is natural. Equality has to be forced. Humans are inherently unequal in quality, some are healthier, some are sickly, some are bright and intelligent, some can barely hold down a 9 to 5.
This is natural and normal.
Goonswarm started the game years after bob. They had no T2 BPO's, they had no moons, they had no Titans. They had people ratting and showing up in t1 frigates.
People say Eve is harsh, it's not, there are all kind of hidden subsidies for new players, hidden within the game design itself. The simple fact that people pay BILLIONS for %.0000001 more effectiveness means that people in cheap ships are %90 as effective as people decked out in HACs with faction gear.
Also how people train for 35 days to do %5 more damage than the next guy.
Insurance is a hidden subsidy. You can almost make money on losing t1 ships whereas T2 dont even bother to insure it.
I'm not a big fan of Goon behavior, but credit where it's due, they came they saw they conquered, fact is fact. They have dyspro moons they deserve to have them, period.
You can do the same thing, you can find 5000 people and blob the hell out of your enemies, when they see 100 t1 frigates coming at them, their e-peen will shrivel beneath their overpriced HACs. Your whole fleet is cheaper than even 1 of your enemies ships, if you come back every single night and kill 1 of their ships they will get frustrated and leave.
Schit or get off the pot.
Very well put...
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 00:38:00 -
[66]
Oh, the one place where having lots of money might lead to power is the market.
Unfortunately the things people buy and sell come from infinite fountains. Even the richest people might only cause a temporary bump in the game's supply and demand equilibrium. When the demand (your buy orders) evaporate, so does the bump.
If you use it to play the market and keep prices guy.. well, that's what any trader does. Not sure if it's giving you any sort of power besides the ability to make more money on that product. Cause really, when you set a new price point everyone selling that product will be making the newly improved profit margin. You're just the guy that takes all the risk if it fails.
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 00:48:00 -
[67]
FYI the r64 moon situation is stupid not because of their rarity but the immobility. Prices are high because the effort it takes to compete for such a moon resource is effectively beyond 90% of the playerbase, and for practical reasons, beyond another 9%.
The prices have absolutely nothing to do with their rarity. If moon resources depleted and respawned elsewhere (keeping their relative rarity the same), there would be two avenues of competition: conquest and exploration/prospecting. Instead of taking it from someone, you'd lay claim first and defend it while its worth something and capitalize on your quick reaction time or scouting efforts.
Prices would drop to a third of what they are easily.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 00:51:00 -
[68]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
You're just the guy that takes all the risk if it fails.
...sets up buy orders for 10,000 waffles, cheap, waits until most are filled but holds on to them
...buys up all 5,000 waffles on the market right now at a half-decent price
...screams "omg, BUY WAFFLES, insane price raise!"
...watches as people scramble like crazy to buy up all remaining crazy-high waffles on the market
...sells enough waffles to cover most of the initial investment yet still have a huge stockpile of waffles
...constantly undercuts people on sell orders by large margins
...screams "omg, SELL WAFFLES, market crash, panic!"
...watches even more amused as people crash the market even harder to rock bottom
...repeats the cycle
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Chraiz
Gallente
University of Caille
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 01:02:00 -
[69]
Can't be bothered reading through 3 pages but I'll do what most people do and throw in my two cents.
I've played on and off for a few years and accepted that much like in any MMO people who can commit more time or have played longer are always going to have more money, gear (ships and modules) and in EVE's case territory than people that can only play an hour or two per day.
EVE sometimes appears even worse because to even get you're foot in the door with a big corp you often needs masses of skill points** which amount to a good amount of playtime so new players are too intimidated to leave high sec until they can get into a corp. Then there's the view that any corp that recruits actively is not worth joining which prevents new players even applying for corps sometimes.
Neither of which encourages new players to do anything but mine or run missions which are boring as hell.
Sorry what was the question again?
**This can be equated to gear and suck like in other games. To join the "best" guilds (corps) you already need to have commited hours to playing and prove yourself before you can get in while at the same time anyone that is already at that level of play is most likely in a good corp/guild. Catch 22 in a way unless you leave you're current corp and join a new one.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.29 01:03:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
You're just the guy that takes all the risk if it fails.
...sets up buy orders for 10,000 waffles, cheap, waits until most are filled but holds on to them
...buys up all 5,000 waffles on the market right now at a half-decent price
...screams "omg, BUY WAFFLES, insane price raise!"
...watches as people scramble like crazy to buy up all remaining crazy-high waffles on the market
...sells enough waffles to cover most of the initial investment yet still have a huge stockpile of waffles
...constantly undercuts people on sell orders by large margins
...screams "omg, SELL WAFFLES, market crash, panic!"
...watches even more amused as people crash the market even harder to rock bottom
...repeats the cycle
/me watches the lightbulb go off over scores of frustrated traders who where about to give up..
Gee thanks Akita..
Originally by: Achar Losa
i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2009.04.29 01:04:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
You're just the guy that takes all the risk if it fails.
...sets up buy orders for 10,000 waffles, cheap, waits until most are filled but holds on to them
...buys up all 5,000 waffles on the market right now at a half-decent price
...screams "omg, BUY WAFFLES, insane price raise!"
...watches as people scramble like crazy to buy up all remaining crazy-high waffles on the market
...sells enough waffles to cover most of the initial investment yet still have a huge stockpile of waffles
...constantly undercuts people on sell orders by large margins
...screams "omg, SELL WAFFLES, market crash, panic!"
...watches even more amused as people crash the market even harder to rock bottom
...repeats the cycle
Now I know why there is a waffle shortage in Romania.... Now we know whom to blame!
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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ShadowGod56
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Posted - 2009.04.29 01:53:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
Do you wanna get married? I cook!
( I would have to keep my T2 BPOs in lockdown though, knowing Istvaan I would wind up relaxing after a good bang, and he be half way to Jita with my precioussssssss.)
holy **** i think i just layed an egg!
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Trustworthy Joe
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Posted - 2009.04.29 01:54:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
You're just the guy that takes all the risk if it fails.
...sets up buy orders for 10,000 waffles, cheap, waits until most are filled but holds on to them
...buys up all 5,000 waffles on the market right now at a half-decent price
...screams "omg, BUY WAFFLES, insane price raise!"
...watches as people scramble like crazy to buy up all remaining crazy-high waffles on the market
...sells enough waffles to cover most of the initial investment yet still have a huge stockpile of waffles
...constantly undercuts people on sell orders by large margins
...screams "omg, SELL WAFFLES, market crash, panic!"
...watches even more amused as people crash the market even harder to rock bottom
...repeats the cycle
this might be the best description of how to play the market i have ever heard. between this and your epic posts on the TPB thread, you win the internets for the week
_______________________
with a name as trustworthy as mine, i cant POSSIBLY be an alt
Originally by: CCP Navigator
I locked this thread BECAUSE OF FALCON
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Sir Substance
Minmatar
Deep Black Industries
House of Mercury
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Posted - 2009.04.29 02:16:00 -
[74]
Originally by: AllUrIskRBelongtoMee
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter and buy your audio tape on how to make 400+billion.
i too would.....wait a minute!
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.29 07:50:00 -
[75]
Ok I will accept the OP's challange and turn my alt into one of these elite. I am starting off with 7.5 mil isk, a blackbird BPO and a poor mans miner with two stip miners on it.
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Xia Kairui
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Posted - 2009.04.29 08:01:00 -
[76]
Sorry OP, but IMO you're doing it wrong.
There will ALWAYS be someone who has more than you. Stop worrying about that, and repeat after me:
"It's a game, I will do what I enjoy there."
As long as you'll follow that mantra you'll stop worrying about people who are richer than you and will like your time in EVE much more.
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Torlin Valric
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:11:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Those who are lazy or uncommited, won't.
This is not true.
I'm very lazy but i am rich (unfortunately only ingame).
Often i see new ways to make loads of money but i don't bother anymore.
It's very easy to make money in this game.
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MR trun
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:15:00 -
[78]
the ops right,
salvage, industry, mining, plexing, wspace not on this make isk it all a helping hand from ccp.
that why i'm so poor ok i'm not mega rich like the guy with 400+ b in my walet but i build and sell and buy bpos and it all adds up very fast.
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Sanguis Sanies
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:17:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
I'm going to be the first to call shenanigans and say that this was done on Singularity or Multiplicity; the test servers.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Clubs and Diamonds
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:27:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Sanguis Sanies
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
I'm going to be the first to call shenanigans and say that this was done on Singularity or Multiplicity; the test servers.
istvaan? don't think so
also, multiplicity? thought it was BH/dev only there.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:35:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Sanguis Sanies
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
I'm going to be the first to call shenanigans and say that this was done on Singularity or Multiplicity; the test servers.
Nah, I call shenenigans on grounds that he's hiding a lot of his ISK on other alts instead of letting us see it all.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:49:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Secondly: The players with the drive and dedication to make money, will have money. Those who are lazy or uncommited, won't. Is this unfair? No! Your ****ing lazy! Admit it, and welcome the fact that you'll always be broke, instead of being jealous of the people who are harder working or more lucky than you! Hell, that's what I did
Not really... I make, given my RL time investment in the game (not much, thank you very much RL work), plenty of money, and I'd be the first person to say I'm laid-back and lazy in my approach to EVE. It's not a job for me, it's a game, one I intend to enjoy rather than feel that if I only did 39 hours this week instead of 40, I've committed some cardinal sin.
As to OP, it only matters if you care that those people are obscenely rich. Relax, enjoy, blow stuff up. Does it really matter that much? Given the comparisons with RL, do you spend all day agonising that George Soros has billions and that you don't?
Far better to accept that in truth ISK is a meaningless number that disappears the moment EVE is turned off, and that the fun, memories, and enjoyable experience is what counts. Oh and that some groups just have enough money that fighting them should be for fun, not some idealistic goal of causing them to run out of money.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Environmental Effects
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.04.29 09:51:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Sanguis Sanies
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Dyspro moons were not required to obtain this.
I'm going to be the first to call shenanigans and say that this was done on Singularity or Multiplicity; the test servers.
Nah, I call shenenigans on grounds that he's hiding a lot of his ISK on other alts instead of letting us see it all.
I know. My first thought was 'Thats it?'.
Originally by: Achar Losa
i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 11:44:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Akita T
Nah, I call shenenigans on grounds that he's hiding a lot of his ISK on other alts instead of letting us see it all.
I know. My first thought was 'Thats it?'.
Yeah. I was about to eat some humble pie on all the "it's hard to count the figures in contract scams" whines since it didn't make much sense the first couple of times I looked at it. Fortunately, Akita made it reasonable again…
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Kale Kold
Caldari
Mortis Angelus
The Church.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 11:59:00 -
[85]
Originally by: bnogo
here's the big secret. big isk in empire does not come from missions.
Big ISK from any sec does NOT come from missions.
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Confuzer
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.04.29 12:17:00 -
[86]
To the OP: I am slightly older then you in eve, and still managed to get enough. You are doing something wrong ^^
-----------------
Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Liz Laser
Outland Research and Development
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.04.29 12:23:00 -
[87]
Why exactly do we need to be elite rich?
I have spare ships and spare isk. I'm involved in a 0.0 war big enough to have a running commentary in CAOD and yet I have lost one ship in 6 days.
Even though I've seen close to a 100 bubbles this week...with a modi****of sense, decent FCs, and the occassional use of a cloak even a 0.0 war isn't expensive for me.
Maybe I need phat titan money, and just don't know it.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.04.29 12:45:00 -
[88]
istvaan was... tyrrax' alt? *confused*
-
putting the gist back into logistics |
Confuzer
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.04.29 13:29:00 -
[89]
If he has 400bil+ in liquids on one char - which is stupid as an investment - then he must have LOTS more in assets and other chars...
Respect. I wonder if he has more then 1.2tril. The largest ammount I heared of, which was totally from one player.
-----------------
Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.04.29 14:03:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 29/04/2009 14:03:32
Nah, I don't have more than that in assets. Probably way, way less. The screenshot was taken, I think, after we stole our 4th MS - and no, I don't usually keep the cash on my main :p
Assets wise, I just have a few luxury toys, faction BS, capitals and pimped out HACs and such to play around in. I keep my hangars pretty clean.
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Comrade Commizzar
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Posted - 2009.04.29 14:26:00 -
[91]
Confessed criminals all!
Exploiters of the People!
All comrades of true Socialist Conscience are absolved from whatever actions they may take against these confessed Oppressors of the Proletariat!
(hehe... just wanted to stay in character and keep the discussion going.. )
FORWARD THE REVOLUTION!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpvwh292VKI&NR=1
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faxtarious
Minmatar
Kai-Zen inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 14:35:00 -
[92]
I love when these kind of topic pop up, you have the "I HAVE ISK UP D ASS WINSAUCE" bandwagon jumping up and down, swinging their epeen, and trying to prove that somehow they have the secret EvE isk making technique.
I have never came across anyone in this game who told me that they had isk you might get the occasional hard core mission runner with a few billions worth in assets, but that's because, like someone pointed out... they just spend the last year or two playing this game for 40 hours a week.
And PS: "according medical studies", anyone who spends 40 hours sitting down on their asses playing a computer MMORPG needs immediate medical attention...and not to mention the side effects includes, Morbid obesity, deplorable physical hygiene and nonresistance of a social life (Even if you factor out work or school)
and one last note: can someone of you presumed "Rich bastards" post a recent wallet transaction Pic or something please ?
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steveid
Killed In Action
The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 14:51:00 -
[93]
the only difficulty with cash as far as i can see is that you can buy accounts. This means that 1 dyspro moon will buy you 1 capital char a month. Delve moons without dyspro will more than pay for the infrastructure, the dyspro moons will add 12 capital characters to the alliance every month. With a player base as large as alliances are nowadays this will mean with coordinated thinking that you could buy a skill advantage that will be exponential in potential.
This reward comes with its own difficulties. Removing a sovereign alliance is both difficult and expensive (unless you were fighting KOS or Bruce) and so in some ways justifies the payoff.
I cant help wanting to go back to the days when k/d ratio's were how you hurt an opponent and space didn't matter nor devalue the economy.
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Landrassa
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
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Posted - 2009.04.29 14:53:00 -
[94]
Originally by: faxtarious
and one last note: can someone of you presumed "Rich bastards" post a recent wallet transaction Pic or something please ?
Bah, why would people provide you with information when you have already made your mind up?
There's soooo many ways of making billions in this game, in way less than 40 hours a week. So from my point of view either you're a troll or you're just choosing to be ignorant.
I made mine buying salvage during the week(log on now and then to adjust prices), build rigs on friday and sell the lot during the weekend with a 20-40% markup. Trick is to get the first billion and it just grows exponentially from there, to a certain point anyway. Do a bit of trading of some of the nicer faction/officer items, there's a couple of more hundred mil. Start a corp full of miners and make them pay 10% to build, I dunno, something really big and impressive and take off with the cash. Something, be creative.
Sure, it requires a bit of work, and the actual use of one's brain. What makes you isk now might be completely unprofitable next week. Morals might get in the way, as might significant others, work, dates, etc. What will definitely get in your way is telling yourself and everyone else there's no way to do it. There's tons of ways, and all you have to do is pick one.
Oh, and making jokes about gamers' hygiene is sooooo last millenium
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice corp you got there...would be a shame if something happened to it. |
Spiteful Soul
Method of Destruction
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.29 14:57:00 -
[95]
Originally by: H Lecter
I cannot be bothered becoming obscenely rich.
I'm busy having fun shooting people Those Dyspro moon holders are nothing more than miners on a bigger scale. They have to manufacture and sell stuff, they need logistics, they need to WORK...
Let them get rich, I prefer to play a game
You speak little but so much truth. I agree totally.
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Phal boy
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Posted - 2009.04.29 14:59:00 -
[96]
You sound like a douche bag obamarite......
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Sekret Kool Klubb
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Posted - 2009.04.29 16:00:00 -
[97]
There is a greater power in this game that you will never know. You have no way of knowing it's true form.
I hold all the secrets.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.04.29 17:03:00 -
[98]
This is exactly the way the real world works.
The only difference is pretty much anyone could be obscenely rich in EVE if they worked at for a year like a job)well if they start with 10 mill SP).
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Stitcher
Caldari
ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.29 17:59:00 -
[99]
Welcome to EVE, a game about capitalism.
-
Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Endemic Aggression
Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 18:28:00 -
[100]
working does not make you rich, not irl, not in eve :p
only way to get hands on the big money is to to cheat other people somehow, this includes (but not lomited to) scamming on market/contracts, getting people to fight for you to get moons etc.
since op came up with the moon stuff, i got to say only reason to ever bring a ship to fleet fight is that you're going to get paid, a lot. (or then you just want killmails, which isnt really good reason tbh) which doesn't happen. still some muppets do go in there just to get "ratting rights" or something else funny which is hilarious since you can rat wherever you want regardless.
anyhow, you dont need to be ridiculously rich to play eve. i just wish pvp loot would have some actual value nowadays. inflation = meh.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Clubs and Diamonds
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Posted - 2009.04.29 19:17:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Stitcher
Welcome to EVE, a game about capitalism.
yet, some of the more sucessfull corps have a communism model
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 19:33:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Spiteful Soul
Originally by: H Lecter
I cannot be bothered becoming obscenely rich.
I'm busy having fun shooting people Those Dyspro moon holders are nothing more than miners on a bigger scale. They have to manufacture and sell stuff, they need logistics, they need to WORK...
Let them get rich, I prefer to play a game
You speak little but so much truth. I agree totally.
Hey thats ok. Us horrible working traders will just make a few moar 10's of billions off of the lazy pvpers who buy our strategically placed slightly overmarket stuff when they go *pop* so they can quickly go back out and do the pew pew. On a related note trading is not work as I just sit somewhere and manipulate the market as I send my hauler alts on afk runs to seed markets with the stuff the pvpers dumped on my lolcheap buy orders. Dyso moon exploitation is even easier as its a huge team effort that puts very little burden on any single member. Matter of fact I hear all sorts of fun pew pew is associated with ownership of it.
Wake up and smell the profits guys.
Originally by: Achar Losa
i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
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Gambit Stryder
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.04.29 21:00:00 -
[103]
Originally by: H Lecter
I cannot be bothered becoming obscenely rich.
I'm busy having fun shooting people Those Dyspro moon holders are nothing more than miners on a bigger scale. They have to manufacture and sell stuff, they need logistics, they need to WORK...
Let them get rich, I prefer to play a game
This, tbh.
If you find watching numbers and getting rich in this game enjoyable, then great. But I don't treat eve like a job. Hell, I probably play like 3 hours a day on average, and yet I can still support my PvP habit. I don't make much but I make enough to where I can afford to fly t2 fitted and rigged HACs and lose them without flinching. And I'm as lazy as they come - I probably spend three hours a week making isk. All of the rest of my time is spent pew pewing. In short, I suck at eve. How is it that some ******* like me can earn a living but the OP can't? Cause the man is keeping you down? Please.
You are doing it very very wrong, OP. Stop worrying about what other people have and go blow some **** up.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.04.29 22:13:00 -
[104]
CCP wanted there to be a few powerblocks like on the chinese server, people not sharing that desire formed too many tribes. Static moons is forcing the competative elements into the easier manageable 2-5 blocks so don't get your hopes up on the game being made more interesting anytime soon. Horde or Alliance, make your pick.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
insidion
Caldari
Last of the Technocracy
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2009.04.29 23:27:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Sir Substance
the obscenely rich are the people wholding the t2 BPO's, the dysprosium moons
How on earth did you misspell 'holding' and yet nail 'dysprosium' in the same sentence? heh =)
dude....cereal!
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