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Niomei	Posted - 2009.04.30 06:02:00 - [1] Because it's a cool ship. For mission use only. (not because it's the most effective isk/hour, because it's cool & still very decent at isk/hour). [Nightmare, faction] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink [empty low slot] Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II 2x Mission Specific Hardeners [empty medium slot] [empty medium slot] Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Drones of choice x 5 1. I am unsure what shield booster to use. Maybe go x-large? but then price goes up another billion (I suppose I shouldn't whine at this point in the price). 2. any help filling in the empty spots? (if I use 2 heavy nos in the two highs I have to use a faction pdu)
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.04.30 06:34:00 - [2] Plug in at least the first 5 crystal implants only using the Omega(recommended) if you have the extra billion then change hardners to suit the rats. Runs all races missions so fast it feels like being a newb running level 1 missions for the first time in a Thrasher. [Nightmare, Mission Spammer 9001XL] True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Heat Sink Domination Tracking Enhancer Domination Tracking Enhancer Core B-Type 100MN Afterburner Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Gist X-Type Photon Scattering Field Gist X-Type Photon Scattering Field Gist X-Type Heat Dissipation Field Cap Recharger II Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Ultraviolet L Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Ultraviolet L Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Ultraviolet L Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Ultraviolet L Drone Link Augmentor I Auto Targeting System II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
Niomei	Posted - 2009.04.30 06:36:00 - [3] Hm, i'll definitely consider those options. Thanks.
braxtex	Posted - 2009.04.30 06:37:00 - [4] Amarr navy heatsink x 4, domination tracking enhancer. Cal navy xl shield booster, cal navy invul x2, cal navy shield boost amps x 2, cal navy em hardener, amarr navy heavy cap booster. Amarr tachyons x 4, caldari cloak, tractor. No changeing hardeners required.
Vyllana	Posted - 2009.04.30 17:28:00 - [5] Edited by: Vyllana on 30/04/2009 17:28:45 You don't need those huge shield boosters. And the above setup with the cap booster is terrible, who wants to use cap boosters for a mission? The below gives tons of dps and more than enough tank. Try this: [Nightmare, New Setup 1] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Capacitor Flux Coil II Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Photon Scattering Field II [Mission Specific] Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.04.30 17:38:00 - [6] 4x rat specific hardeners gives better tank than 2x + 1 invuln + 1 boost amp. Also a tracking enhancer gives a better real dps increase than fourth heat sink. Other than that good standard nightmare fit.
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.30 18:08:00 - [7] Low 4x AN HS 1x Tracking Enh Mid: 2x Therm 2x EM 1x CN XLSB 1x SBA 1x Heavy Cap with 800s Hi: 4x AN Tach What's the problem? The Cap booster actually gives me an option to turn off my guns and tank 1000 DPS for 5-6 minutes (EFT warrior FTW) until charges run out. And it's not like it's gimping my DPS. Rigs are all CCC simply b/c I 1-shot all cruisers anyway. EA is actually a hilarious chain to run now...I 2-shot half the navy megas and domis. One thing I've considered was using damage rigs or painter...for some reason using +10% damage rig only boosts the DPS by 10. As far as painter is concerned...has anyone found a real use for it on NM yet? Like I said...I 1-shot most cruisers and BCs about 75% of the time...with TP I suppose I could make it 95%?
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.04.30 18:32:00 - [8] Originally by: Kzintee One thing I've considered was using damage rigs or painter...for some reason using +10% damage rig only boosts the DPS by 10. As far as painter is concerned...has anyone found a real use for it on NM yet? Like I said...I 1-shot most cruisers and BCs about 75% of the time...with TP I suppose I could make it 95%? The damage rigs are doing poorly because they are stacking nerfed to the heatsinks and as far as the tp is concerned unless you have a missile spammer along your built in uber tracking with a tracking enchancer will serve you better. And nothing wrong with your setup as it will be handy to tank until Concord arrives if you get an amature suicide gank after you. One of the good things about the nightmare is once you stick on a T2 xl booster with resists some tachs and some heatsinks your pretty much good to go for all level 4. The only reason you see the pimp fits is because we can and it makes level 4 missions like running a level 1 in a thrasher. Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.30 18:54:00 - [9] Edited by: Kzintee on 30/04/2009 18:54:19 Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Kzintee One thing I've considered was using damage rigs or painter...for some reason using +10% damage rig only boosts the DPS by 10. As far as painter is concerned...has anyone found a real use for it on NM yet? Like I said...I 1-shot most cruisers and BCs about 75% of the time...with TP I suppose I could make it 95%? The damage rigs are doing poorly because they are stacking nerfed to the heatsinks and as far as the tp is concerned unless you have a missile spammer along your built in uber tracking with a tracking enchancer will serve you better. And nothing wrong with your setup as it will be handy to tank until Concord arrives if you get an amature suicide gank after you. One of the good things about the nightmare is once you stick on a T2 xl booster with resists some tachs and some heatsinks your pretty much good to go for all level 4. The only reason you see the pimp fits is because we can and it makes level 4 missions like running a level 1 in a thrasher. Ah...thanks for the rigs explanation. As far as concord...my local rarely goes above 30. We don't have ninjas in our neck of woods. Not even gonna comment on the pimp "Look at my e-peen! I have no t2 mods! My gear has more than 6 words per name for each module!" fits as I see those as pointless (esp the CN hardeners or Domi Tracking Enh with their .05% better tracking over t2)
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.04.30 19:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Kzintee Ah...thanks for the rigs explanation. Np always glad to help. Originally by: Kzintee As far as concord...my local rarely goes above 30. We don't have ninjas in our neck of woods. With that attitude its a good thing you do have the cap booster fitted. Its gonna happen sooner or later no matter where you mission if you have it out and running where people can see it. Already had one attempt myself and my nightmare is tucked away far from all the normal faction hunter areas. Originally by: Kzintee Not even gonna comment on the pimp "Look at my e-peen! I have no t2 mods! My gear has more than 6 words per name for each module!" fits as I see those as pointless (esp the CN hardeners or Domi Tracking Enh with their .05% better tracking over t2) Because I can. Besides there is an improvement no matter how small plus I will contend with you over the usefullness of the Pith X booster as its bonus to reps is just simply orgasm inducing with a full hg crystal set. Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.04.30 19:18:00 - [11] Originally by: Kzintee What's the problem? The Cap booster actually gives me an option to turn off my guns and tank 1000 DPS for 5-6 minutes (EFT warrior FTW) until charges run out. And it's not like it's gimping my DPS. Rigs are all CCC simply b/c I 1-shot all cruisers anyway. EA is actually a hilarious chain to run now...I 2-shot half the navy megas and domis. One thing I've considered was using damage rigs or painter...for some reason using +10% damage rig only boosts the DPS by 10. As far as painter is concerned...has anyone found a real use for it on NM yet? Like I said...I 1-shot most cruisers and BCs about 75% of the time...with TP I suppose I could make it 95%? because cap boosters take up a lot of cargo space. and it gets annoying to micro manage it. and they cost like 3k each and yes the damage rig only adds like 10 damage, as it is stacking nerfed with the Heat sinks. ah, well I like the undersized complex boosters for simplicity.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.04.30 19:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton ah, well I like the undersized complex boosters for simplicity. Yes those fits are very nice to use and makes a well run and memorised level 4 mission even easier. But alas they do nothing against a suicide gank so pith x xl booster all the way for me. Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.04.30 23:25:00 - [13] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton because cap boosters take up a lot of cargo space. and it gets annoying to micro manage it. and they cost like 3k each and yes the damage rig only adds like 10 damage, as it is stacking nerfed with the Heat sinks. ah, well I like the undersized complex boosters for simplicity. I'm not salvaging so I dont care about cargo space. Truth of the matter is...NM is such a powerhouse that most of the time XLSB isn't needed, cap booster is needed even less. But it's there as a precaution. Not like I can fit much else in its place.
Niomei	Posted - 2009.04.30 23:44:00 - [14] [Nightmare, CURRENT] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Gist A-Type Heat Dissipation Field Gist A-Type Photon Scattering Field Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L True Sansha Heavy Nosferatu Auto Targeting System II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 This is what I ended up fitting so far. Zero problems dps or tank wise for any missions thus far. :D
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.04.30 23:47:00 - [15] claps Well done and gives your Nightmare some great pimp value without breaking the bank. Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
Sonreir Gallente Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2009.05.01 06:53:00 - [16] Here's the setup I use: Highs: 4x Amarr Navy Tachyons 1x Tractor Beam Mids: 2x Pithii B-Type Small Shield Booster 2x Photon Scattering Field II 2x Heat Dissipation Field II 1x Shield Booster Amplifier II Lows: 2x Amarr Navy Heat Sink 3x Power Diagnostic System II Rigs: 3x Capacitor Control Circuit I Drones: 5x Hobgoblin II 5x Hammerhead II I can clear Sansha Blockade in about 17 or 18 minutes with this setup. I group the tachtons into two groups of two and it's not uncommon to insta-pop cruisers and battlecruisers. Volley damage is around 6000 against Amarr-typed rats.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.05.01 08:15:00 - [17] You guys are aware that t2 guns with spec 3 are better than faction right?
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.01 08:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega You guys are aware that t2 guns with spec 3 are better than faction right? The Nightmare has no cap use bonus and cap use is horribly high with T2 tachs. Faction tachs have nearly identical dps as t2 when you use t1 or faction crystals plus they also use much less cap and have better fittings. Add in an xl booster and it gets even worse so you need to save every scrap of cap you can. Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.01 15:39:00 - [19] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega You guys are aware that t2 guns with spec 3 are better than faction right? The Nightmare has no cap use bonus and cap use is horribly high with T2 tachs. Faction tachs have nearly identical dps as t2 when you use t1 or faction crystals plus they also use much less cap and have better fittings. Add in an xl booster and it gets even worse so you need to save every scrap of cap you can. I bought me t2 tachs and I'm gonna try to test it out. EFT says I'll be out of cap in 6 minutes just shooting and running resists. 7 minutes if I use CN resists. But...whole 50DPS is on the line (with lvl4 skill)!!! And I don't actually think lvl3 is required to break even. Looking at my stats, t2 and AN tachs are identical which means even lvl1 adv beams gets you higher DPS. Could be wrong though.
Fon Revedhort Monks of War United Legion	Posted - 2009.05.01 18:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Vyllana Edited by: Vyllana on 30/04/2009 17:28:45 You don't need those huge shield boosters. And the above setup with the cap booster is terrible, who wants to use cap boosters for a mission? Any decent Nightmare pilot actually. Originally by: Vyllana Edited by: Vyllana on 30/04/2009 17:28:45 The below gives tons of dps and more than enough tank. Try this: [Nightmare, New Setup 1] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Capacitor Flux Coil II Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Photon Scattering Field II [Mission Specific] Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Crappy setup. Not really a match to even a semi-decent cap-injected one. ---
Splinter 07	Posted - 2009.05.02 09:04:00 - [21] Can i ask why tachs? ive found that in other ships they cant hit for crap in close range missions... Also is low 80% across the board on this ship good? I have L: 3x amarr navy heat sinks / 2x domination tracking enhancers M: 4x caldari navy invul fields 1x caldari navy X-L shield booster / Gist A type heat and photon fields (active) H:4 Amarr navy mega pulse /tractor / salvager. I get 81% as my lowest resist and 85% as my highest according to eft, i havent bought the ship or fittings yet... wha tdo you think?
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.05.02 12:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Splinter 07 Can i ask why tachs? Gank vs tank. And the nighmare really shines with a gankfit. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Chaos Dreams	Posted - 2009.05.02 13:38:00 - [23] Originally by: Splinter 07 Can i ask why tachs? ive found that in other ships they cant hit for crap in close range missions... Nightmare has a +7.5% to large energy tracking per caldari BS level. Other BS's don't.
Dalts	Posted - 2009.05.02 15:00:00 - [24] The tracking bonus that the Nightmare gets means Tachs track nearly as well as pulses anyway, with much better projectable gank. Although Scorch pulses can hit out to 45km or so, you are doing reduced damage. With tachs you are hitting at that range with AN Multis still. It also means that on the longer range missions you can kill things much sooner. Oh and the fitting with 4 Caldari Navy Invuls, waste of slots and ISK. You are going to be paying out 1.3 bil or so for them, and the stacking nerf is hitting the 3rd somewhat and the 4th alot. Use faction specific hardners and use your ISK on something more worthwhile.
Gay O'rly	Posted - 2009.05.03 09:00:00 - [25] Originally by: Fon Revedhort Originally by: Vyllana Edited by: Vyllana on 30/04/2009 17:28:45 You don't need those huge shield boosters. And the above setup with the cap booster is terrible, who wants to use cap boosters for a mission? Any decent Nightmare pilot actually. Originally by: Vyllana Edited by: Vyllana on 30/04/2009 17:28:45 The below gives tons of dps and more than enough tank. Try this: [Nightmare, New Setup 1] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Capacitor Flux Coil II Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Photon Scattering Field II [Mission Specific] Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Crappy setup. Not really a match to even a semi-decent cap-injected one. You do realize DPS >>>> whatever tank you feel is required to fit a cap booster. So far I haven't even turned the shield booster on in roughly 50% of missions. And never had to permarun it. Hell, I'm toying around with throwing 3 LSE IIs on it and just having a stupid huge buffer, because everything drops so fast. I can't see why you'd ever think a cap booster would be required, let alone somehow make a setup magically better than one already running 4 heat sinks. Volley damage is king in this ship. Unless your cap booster kills rats too
Leandro Salazar Better Dead Then Smeg	Posted - 2009.05.03 10:45:00 - [26] The cap booster makes you not need 2 CRs and that flux coil. So you have two more slots to dedicate to gank assist mods like tracking stuff or a sensor booster (Especially in a ship that ganks like a Nightmare, cutting down lock times prolly saves you more time than almost any other measure...). And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
Fon Revedhort Monks of War United Legion	Posted - 2009.05.03 11:07:00 - [27] Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 03/05/2009 11:08:13 Originally by: Gay O'rly Originally by: Fon Revedhort Originally by: Vyllana Edited by: Vyllana on 30/04/2009 17:28:45 You don't need those huge shield boosters. And the above setup with the cap booster is terrible, who wants to use cap boosters for a mission? Any decent Nightmare pilot actually. Originally by: Vyllana Edited by: Vyllana on 30/04/2009 17:28:45 The below gives tons of dps and more than enough tank. Try this: [Nightmare, New Setup 1] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Capacitor Flux Coil II Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Photon Scattering Field II [Mission Specific] Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Crappy setup. Not really a match to even a semi-decent cap-injected one. You do realize DPS >>>> whatever tank you feel is required to fit a cap booster. So far I haven't even turned the shield booster on in roughly 50% of missions. And never had to permarun it. Hell, I'm toying around with throwing 3 LSE IIs on it and just having a stupid huge buffer, because everything drops so fast. I can't see why you'd ever think a cap booster would be required, let alone somehow make a setup magically better than one already running 4 heat sinks. Volley damage is king in this ship. Unless your cap booster kills rats too I'd take my current 3 hs setup with 42 km optimal and 0.04 tracking with Multifrequency over that any day of the week. The 4th hs means nothing when you have no extra tracking/optimal modules. Heck, the setup above doesn't even have an AB lol @ 3 LSEs btw. You're already wasting almost as many slots as it's required to have a tank. Adding some resist modules (you'd use at least one, wouldn't you?) will get you at least 4-5 slots used up. ---
Gay O'rly	Posted - 2009.05.03 12:10:00 - [28] You can easily run a large booster with a single cap recharger II in the mids and a PDU in a low for as long as it's ever needed, unless you go aggro crazy. Still trying mine out to see if throwing extra tracking beyond a TE II in the lows is worth it, I don't seem to have any problems laying solid volleys down on small ships until they get into close orbit, and at that point it doesn't matter how many tracking mods I throw at it, I'm not going to hit them. Drones need something to do anyway. Sensor booster would be nice, but don't see it being required nor saving a ton of in mission time. If the frigs are out at range you have plenty of time to lock and alpha as they MWD in, if they are close sometimes I don't even bother locking as drones AI has been pretty good to me about working on a target together. And I haven't had an issue with rats spawning outside base scan range. Might have been 2 LSE IIs, I was going EFT crazy on a whim Still, the general idea holds, you blow the snot out of everything before needing a heavy tank is even required in most missions What is this pro cap booster setup that is so above and beyond other setups in this thread?
Ranvaldy Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.03 12:26:00 - [29] This is the Nightmare im using atm without any problems vs sanshas/bloods ofc [Nightmare, Tachs] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Amarr Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Fon Revedhort Monks of War United Legion	Posted - 2009.05.03 12:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Gay O'rly Edited by: Gay O''rly on 03/05/2009 12:34:24 You can easily run a large booster with a single cap recharger II in the mids and a PDU in a low for as long as it's ever needed, unless you go aggro crazy. and the point in using cap recharger and PDU with the Large booster when you can run Cap Booster and XL SB instead is?.. ---
Gay O'rly	Posted - 2009.05.03 12:50:00 - [31] Edited by: Gay O''rly on 03/05/2009 12:51:04 Originally by: Fon Revedhort Originally by: Gay O'rly Edited by: Gay O''rly on 03/05/2009 12:34:24 You can easily run a large booster with a single cap recharger II in the mids and a PDU in a low for as long as it's ever needed, unless you go aggro crazy. and the point in using cap recharger and PDU with the Large booster when you can run Cap Booster and XL SB instead is?.. Preference and less micromanagement/carrying of charges/isk spent on charges, unless you disagree that a LSB, especially pith variety, is plenty enough tank for this ship? You, after all, are the one insinuating that a fit without a cap booster is automatically subpar Originally by: Fon Revedhort Any decent Nightmare pilot actually. Not really a match to even a semi-decent cap-injected one.
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.03 16:44:00 - [32] Edited by: Kzintee on 03/05/2009 16:45:35 Originally by: Gay O'rly Edited by: Gay O''rly on 03/05/2009 12:51:04 Originally by: Fon Revedhort Originally by: Gay O'rly Edited by: Gay O''rly on 03/05/2009 12:34:24 You can easily run a large booster with a single cap recharger II in the mids and a PDU in a low for as long as it's ever needed, unless you go aggro crazy. and the point in using cap recharger and PDU with the Large booster when you can run Cap Booster and XL SB instead is?.. Preference and less micromanagement/carrying of charges/isk spent on charges, unless you disagree that a LSB, especially pith variety, is plenty enough tank for this ship? You, after all, are the one insinuating that a fit without a cap booster is automatically subpar Originally by: Fon Revedhort Any decent Nightmare pilot actually. Not really a match to even a semi-decent cap-injected one. Ahem, the point here is that you are wasting valuable slots that could be dedicated to gank by setting up a perma-ish tank. Considering that in majority of missions you don't even need to run XLSB. Why have a PDS in the low when you could put a TE instead, increasing your optimal and tracking? Seriously...a single TE gives you 5km more optimal which gives you more DPS at any range above 33km which is your optimal with Tachs right now. You understand why that is, right? Edit: Re: 800 charges. Missioning in Amarr space you should be self-supplied anyway. I bring in a load full every once in a while from Damsel or EA.
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.03 16:54:00 - [33] Edited by: Kzintee on 03/05/2009 16:56:22 Originally by: Ranvaldy This is the Nightmare im using atm without any problems vs sanshas/bloods ofc [Nightmare, Tachs] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Amarr Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I AE bonus room will eat you alive. You have no way to tank longterm damage without turning off your guns. Not to mention the fact that you can't omnitank with just 3 hardener slots. Your sustained DPS and tank is 2 minutes at which point you are cap-dry and dead in the water. Your guns eat cap (nothing you can really do about that unless you spend 300mil on AN ones) faster. Smarts are just asking you to get Concorded. Since you have no AB just put a tractor beam there to save yourself time you slowboat to that can 20km away. Let drones take care of frigs.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.03 19:57:00 - [34] Originally by: Kzintee Ahem, the point here is that you are wasting valuable slots that could be dedicated to gank by setting up a perma-ish tank. Considering that in majority of missions you don't even need to run XLSB. There is a very good reason you want an xl booster on your nightmare and I do believe I already touched on it. Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
Splinter 07	Posted - 2009.05.04 06:02:00 - [35] Guys dose the shield recharge faster when it reaches a certain lvl ? for example it will charger faster at 50% than it would at 80%
Splinter 07	Posted - 2009.05.04 06:08:00 - [36] Sorr yfor the second post forgot to put this in, L: 3x amarr navy HS 2x Domination tracking enhancer M: DG X-L shield booster 4x Gist A type mission spec hardeners 1x caldari navy invul field 1x caldari navy shield boost amp. H: 4x amarr navy tachs. 1x salvager 1x TB what do you guys think? pls be constructive.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.04 06:33:00 - [37] Shields get peak recharge at around 1/3 left but on a bs the recharge is terribly low even on a full passive fit. As far as your nightmare setup it looks just dandy so pulse the booster when shields get low and kill em all with the tachs and drones. Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
Mystafyre Caldari Malevolent Intentions Dark Solar Empire	Posted - 2009.05.04 06:35:00 - [38] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega 4x rat specific hardeners gives better tank than 2x + 1 invuln + 1 boost amp. Also a tracking enhancer gives a better real dps increase than fourth heat sink. Other than that good standard nightmare fit. This.
Splinter 07	Posted - 2009.05.04 08:27:00 - [39] so when do i turn on my shield booster? and do i boost it to 100%? Soz for all these shield questions im an armor tanker...
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.05.04 09:49:00 - [40] Originally by: Splinter 07 Sorr yfor the second post forgot to put this in, L: 3x amarr navy HS 2x Domination tracking enhancer M: DG X-L shield booster 4x Gist A type mission spec hardeners 1x caldari navy invul field 1x caldari navy shield boost amp. H: 4x amarr navy tachs. 1x salvager 1x TB what do you guys think? pls be constructive. You are going to have a logistics ship transfering cap to you? Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.04 10:12:00 - [41] Originally by: Washell Olivaw You are going to have a logistics ship transfering cap to you? It should be cap stable up until he starts the xl booster then he will have about 1~2 minutes of cap. Now that might not sound like much but as all he will need to do is run the booster for 10~20 seconds to get back to full shields its more than plenty. Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
Ranvaldy Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.04 10:35:00 - [42] Edited by: Ranvaldy on 04/05/2009 10:41:16 Edited by: Ranvaldy on 04/05/2009 10:37:04 Edited by: Ranvaldy on 04/05/2009 10:35:50 Originally by: Kzintee Edited by: Kzintee on 03/05/2009 16:56:22 Originally by: Ranvaldy This is the Nightmare im using atm without any problems vs sanshas/bloods ofc [Nightmare, Tachs] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Amarr Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I AE bonus room will eat you alive. You have no way to tank longterm damage without turning off your guns. Not to mention the fact that you can't omnitank with just 3 hardener slots. Your sustained DPS and tank is 2 minutes at which point you are cap-dry and dead in the water. Your guns eat cap (nothing you can really do about that unless you spend 300mil on AN ones) faster. Smarts are just asking you to get Concorded. Since you have no AB just put a tractor beam there to save yourself time you slowboat to that can 20km away. Let drones take care of frigs. Roflmao im in lowsec for a long time so no i wont get concorded :D Well i forgot to mention also that i dont do AE because its freaking NOT time effecient mission.U can do like 2 blockades in the time of 1 AE and u see 2 blockades>1 AE My average blockade runs are 15-18 mins recons are around 10-14 mins damsel is als around 15 mins. Just do Blockade/Recon 1of3/Damsel/Attack of the Drones/Pirate Invasion cuz these are the missions worthwhile doing. I have 3 quality 20 agents tho. Ye btw i was thinking swapping one smart for a tractor beam for Damsel Carebearing+being a pirate is fun actually.
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.04 15:36:00 - [43] Originally by: Splinter 07 so when do i turn on my shield booster? and do i boost it to 100%? Soz for all these shield questions im an armor tanker... Peak shield recharge is somewhere like 27% shield. You can turn on your SB whenever the hell you'd like. Try to plan ahead. You know what enemies you have left, so boost accordingly. The point is NOT to finish the mission with 100% shields, the point is to finish the mission without armor damage (sorta...or to finish the mission alive). The way I do things: Fly in, start shooting. Keep the hardeners running. When shields get down to 20%, look at what's left. If I know I'll lose shields, boost a couple cycles. Keep shooting. If not done yet and shields falling still, turn on cap injector and boost. Eventually everything dies.
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.04 15:39:00 - [44] Originally by: Ranvaldy Roflmao im in lowsec for a long time so no i wont get concorded :D Well i forgot to mention also that i dont do AE because its freaking NOT time effecient mission.U can do like 2 blockades in the time of 1 AE and u see 2 blockades>1 AE My average blockade runs are 15-18 mins recons are around 10-14 mins damsel is als around 15 mins. Just do Blockade/Recon 1of3/Damsel/Attack of the Drones/Pirate Invasion cuz these are the missions worthwhile doing. I have 3 quality 20 agents tho. Ye btw i was thinking swapping one smart for a tractor beam for Damsel Carebearing+being a pirate is fun actually. In that case you found a setup that works for you. Are you running for Ministry of war? They got that 0.1/0.05 station (forgot the name) with 3 4x20 agents out near Delve.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.05.04 16:42:00 - [45] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Kzintee Ahem, the point here is that you are wasting valuable slots that could be dedicated to gank by setting up a perma-ish tank. Considering that in majority of missions you don't even need to run XLSB. There is a very good reason you want an xl booster on your nightmare and I do believe I already touched on it. x-type xl boosters are really the best defense, especially without damage controls and cap boosters
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.05.04 16:44:00 - [46] Originally by: Kzintee Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton because cap boosters take up a lot of cargo space. and it gets annoying to micro manage it. and they cost like 3k each and yes the damage rig only adds like 10 damage, as it is stacking nerfed with the Heat sinks. ah, well I like the undersized complex boosters for simplicity. I'm not salvaging so I dont care about cargo space. Truth of the matter is...NM is such a powerhouse that most of the time XLSB isn't needed, cap booster is needed even less. But it's there as a precaution. Not like I can fit much else in its place. yea, I really don't care about my cargo space anyways, I'm just lazy/forgetful. will either end up running the cap injector all 5 shots when not needed, and forget to refill on boosters. although to cut down on cap recharge mods the injector can be lovely.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.04 19:32:00 - [47] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Kzintee Ahem, the point here is that you are wasting valuable slots that could be dedicated to gank by setting up a perma-ish tank. Considering that in majority of missions you don't even need to run XLSB. There is a very good reason you want an xl booster on your nightmare and I do believe I already touched on it. x-type xl boosters are really the best defense, especially without damage controls and cap boosters Let me add that without a cap booster that xl setup is going to be horribly vulnerable to a nos gank so that is why I recommend both an xl and a heavy cap booster. I don't use one on my setup because when its time to break out the nightmare I have at least one scout if not moar to clear the path ahead. Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.04 22:38:00 - [48] Here's an alternative setup I've been trying to make work in EFT. What you all think? Low: 3x AN HS 2x TE Mid: 1x Photon 1x Thermal 1x Invuln 1x XLSB 1x SBA 1x HCB w/800s 1x <<<<< Utility slot. Web/TC/TP/AB Hi: 4x AN Tach Rigs: 1x Anti-EM 2x CCC2 In Kin/Therm variant this setup is 80% kin, 73.4% therm resists. In EM/T variant it's 72.4% EM, 73% Therm resists. Resists are a little low for my liking but this allows a utility slot. Also...4th HS or 2nd TE? Would a TC work in the util slot? I get a 45km optimal and 0.03 tracking with TEx2 and TC (unscripted). This's becoming an exercise in "Can we squeeze one last drop of DPS out of this guy?" although I do believe that having AN multifreq with a 45km optimal is pretty awesome.
Jennz	Posted - 2009.05.04 23:10:00 - [49] Originally by: Kzintee Here's an alternative setup I've been trying to make work in EFT. What you all think? Low: 3x AN HS 2x TE Mid: 1x Photon 1x Thermal 1x Invuln 1x XLSB 1x SBA 1x HCB w/800s 1x <<<<< Utility slot. Web/TC/TP/AB Hi: 4x AN Tach Rigs: 1x Anti-EM 2x CCC2 In Kin/Therm variant this setup is 80% kin, 73.4% therm resists. In EM/T variant it's 72.4% EM, 73% Therm resists. Resists are a little low for my liking but this allows a utility slot. Also...4th HS or 2nd TE? Would a TC work in the util slot? I get a 45km optimal and 0.03 tracking with TEx2 and TC (unscripted). This's becoming an exercise in "Can we squeeze one last drop of DPS out of this guy?" although I do believe that having AN multifreq with a 45km optimal is pretty awesome. Looks like a good setup. I'm a bit puzzled as to why you'd spend 500m on 2 T2 CCC rigs and use (presumably) a T2 tank, you should spring for faction stuff for resists imo, especially as you have a HCB as a fallback option. As for utility, I'd choose an AB. Web/TP is pointless imo (anything close enough for you not to be able to shoot with 2xTEs will have to be dispatched by drones), another TC will be stacking nerfed with the TEs. An AB on the other hand will get you through missions quicker, the Nightmare 117.5m/s speed is painful.
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.04 23:28:00 - [50] Originally by: Jennz Looks like a good setup. I'm a bit puzzled as to why you'd spend 500m on 2 T2 CCC rigs and use (presumably) a T2 tank, you should spring for faction stuff for resists imo, especially as you have a HCB as a fallback option. As for utility, I'd choose an AB. Web/TP is pointless imo (anything close enough for you not to be able to shoot with 2xTEs will have to be dispatched by drones), another TC will be stacking nerfed with the TEs. An AB on the other hand will get you through missions quicker, the Nightmare 117.5m/s speed is painful. I'm shooting for a t2 tank first then move it to faction/complex. This way people with ISK excess and without one can use it. This isn't a frigate that requires complex gear to fit because you're 0.5PG short. TBQH, all these discussions also forget the other component of the tank, being the full crystal set. Slap those on and you don't need XLSB anymore. But...I like my +5 implants.
Jennz	Posted - 2009.05.05 01:02:00 - [51] A HG Crystal set will make a massive difference though. Personally it's significant enough that I don't mind having to jump around different clones to use either my +5 set, or the Crystal (+3) set.
Splinter 07	Posted - 2009.05.05 06:41:00 - [52] Is it worth getting a setup that requires one fit for all? so you dont have to change hardeners all the time? If so can anyone pls post a good ALL mission setup... Just so i can compare how much DPS and VOLLEY dmg are you guys getting?
Giannamichaels	Posted - 2009.05.05 08:43:00 - [53] Edited by: Giannamichaels on 05/05/2009 08:43:14 Changing hardeners only takes a few seconds, its the best way and makes you tank better. There's being lazy but surely nobody is THAT lazy?
Splinter 07	Posted - 2009.05.05 10:15:00 - [54] Just makes things easyer... and it could save isk...
Sanzorz Amarr Mark Of Chaos	Posted - 2009.05.05 10:41:00 - [55] It's a matter of taste on how you wanna fit a Nightmare. Personally I went for permatank and gank. High: Amarr Navy Tachs, 2 tractors Med: 1 Gist B XL booster, 3 hardeners, 2 cap rechargers and 1 SS TC with tracking script. Low: 3 Navy HS, 1 t2 PDU and 1 t2 Cap Flux. 3x CCC rigs. Perma tank allows for some easy slacking, mass aggro in most stages to round up mobs for salvage ship and guns one shot more or less anything below battleship size. Afterburner is not required if you're doing missions in Amarr space. I only recall 2 missions where it would be handy and that's about it. Cap boosters are a poor mans option, as Gist boosters are insanely expensive these days. I'm sure they work well, but I hate being dependant on a mod with charges for cap. Along with that this ship turns out pretty badass with the usual +% damage, rof and tracking implants.
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.05 17:05:00 - [56] Originally by: Splinter 07 Is it worth getting a setup that requires one fit for all? so you dont have to change hardeners all the time? If so can anyone pls post a good ALL mission setup... Just so i can compare how much DPS and VOLLEY dmg are you guys getting? Of the top of my head since I dont have EFT at work :) The setup I run now is 4x HS, 1 TE 2x hardener, 2x hardener, 1 XLSB, 1 SBA, 1 HCB Where 4 hardeners are mission specific. This setup gives me high-70 to mid-80 resists (EM/T vs K/T) For EA5 I switch the tank to 1x Photon, 3x Invuln. This gives me 74-75ish EM, 68-69 T (lowest damage in EA5) and high 70s for K/Exp. As you can see, switching the tank does not affect my weapons at all. In fact, with this setup I have time to nuke the gate before the last 2 waves arrive...EA5 really needs to be sped up for NM pilots. 2-3 minute breaks between waves are boring Without drones, 993 DPS with 4x AN HS and AN Tachs at 38km optimal with AN Multi, with surg strike at 4 and 2 5% damage implants. Volley is something like 6800... What I really want to do is try to extend the optimal further and see the DPS curve. Experimental setup I posted extends the optimal to 45km while doing 931DPS with better tracking vs 993 DPS at 38km optimal (with worse tracking).
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.05 17:08:00 - [57] Originally by: Splinter 07 Just makes things easyer... and it could save isk... You either have to go complex/faction or reduce the gank just so you can have omnitank. Not exactly sure you'll save ISK either way.
Jennz	Posted - 2009.05.05 19:29:00 - [58] Edited by: Jennz on 05/05/2009 19:30:11 I'd argue that if you're not using at least faction for most stuff on a Nightmare then you're just wasting it and should get an Navy Apoc instead. It's a billion ISK ship, it deserves better than throwaway T2 equipment. You're just as likely to get ganked in it irrespective of what you've fitted as people will assume you're deadspace fitted anyway (since anyone with sense would), so you might as well make it worthwhile. Nightmare doesn't (shouldn't) need to tank much, and definitely not perma-tank (clue: it's not a CNR). Gank is your tank. If you're not killing everything sub-BS before they get close enough to seriously hurt you you're doing it wrong.
Traderboz	Posted - 2009.05.05 19:44:00 - [59] Originally by: Jennz Edited by: Jennz on 05/05/2009 19:30:11 I'd argue that if you're not using at least faction for most stuff on a Nightmare then you're just wasting it and should get an Navy Apoc instead. It's a billion ISK ship, it deserves better than throwaway T2 equipment. You're just as likely to get ganked in it irrespective of what you've fitted as people will assume you're deadspace fitted anyway (since anyone with sense would), so you might as well make it worthwhile. Nightmare doesn't (shouldn't) need to tank much, and definitely not perma-tank (clue: it's not a CNR). Gank is your tank. If you're not killing everything sub-BS before they get close enough to seriously hurt you you're doing it wrong. I'd argue that's nonsense. The Nightmare is quite different from the NavyPoc. The Nightmare primarily uses Tachs, Navypoc uses pulses. The Nightmare shield tanks (more lows for damage mods), the Navypoc armor tanks. The Nightmare has both a damage bonus and a tracking bonus, the NavyPoc only has a range bonus. The Nightmare has 3 utility highs, the NavyPoc has 0. The two have very little in common other than they both use lasers, and there's no rule that says you have to drop a few billion ISK on a Nightmare. Now yes, the Nightmare is one of the best ships to "pimp out", but beyond some faction heat sinks, nothing is really required. T2 Tachyons suck a good bit of cap, but they also punch harder than faction Tachyons. Other than faction HS, nothing is going to be affecting your damage unless you're using faction TC's and the like. So while you CAN pimp your tank out and go crazy with Gist X-types (btw you all definitely should, and this has nothing to do with the fact I'm selling some atm ;p), it's not really going to speed up your mission running. In short, faction heatsinks are FTW, and there's a strong argument for using faction Tach's, but beyond that you're basically only investing cash in it to achieve a stronger and/or perma tank. T2 Tachyons are all you ever need and actually punch harder, so it's not essential to go with faction. You really don't need to throw tons of ISK at a Nightmare in order to get exceptional performance from it.
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.05 20:06:00 - [60] Originally by: Jennz Edited by: Jennz on 05/05/2009 19:30:11 I'd argue that if you're not using at least faction for most stuff on a Nightmare then you're just wasting it and should get an Navy Apoc instead. It's a billion ISK ship, it deserves better than throwaway T2 equipment. You're just as likely to get ganked in it irrespective of what you've fitted as people will assume you're deadspace fitted anyway (since anyone with sense would), so you might as well make it worthwhile. Nightmare doesn't (shouldn't) need to tank much, and definitely not perma-tank (clue: it's not a CNR). Gank is your tank. If you're not killing everything sub-BS before they get close enough to seriously hurt you you're doing it wrong. Why, are you a pirate looking to gank targets with expensive gear or do you earn ISK by selling complex gear? Fitting a ship shouldn't be about "keeping up with the Joneses"...if it aint broke, don't fix it. I'll use faction/complex gear IFF it provides suitable benefit beyond ease of fitting. For example, using CN Photon field is pointless to me right now over t2 field because I don't have fitting problems AND because the cap benefit isn't that great. No extra resists = fail in this case. Btw...using your logic I can make a similar statement that if you aren't gonna faction pimp your Navy Mega you should just get a Rokh instead. (Ok, fine, I know that they have diff skill requirements but the rest of analogy is sound: 3x price difference, same weapon system but different tank).
Jennz	Posted - 2009.05.05 20:44:00 - [61] Edited by: Jennz on 05/05/2009 20:48:07 Originally by: Traderboz Originally by: Jennz Edited by: Jennz on 05/05/2009 19:30:11 I'd argue that if you're not using at least faction for most stuff on a Nightmare then you're just wasting it and should get an Navy Apoc instead. It's a billion ISK ship, it deserves better than throwaway T2 equipment. You're just as likely to get ganked in it irrespective of what you've fitted as people will assume you're deadspace fitted anyway (since anyone with sense would), so you might as well make it worthwhile. Nightmare doesn't (shouldn't) need to tank much, and definitely not perma-tank (clue: it's not a CNR). Gank is your tank. If you're not killing everything sub-BS before they get close enough to seriously hurt you you're doing it wrong. I'd argue that's nonsense. The Nightmare is quite different from the NavyPoc. The Nightmare primarily uses Tachs, Navypoc uses pulses. The Nightmare shield tanks (more lows for damage mods), the Navypoc armor tanks. The Nightmare has both a damage bonus and a tracking bonus, the NavyPoc only has a range bonus. The Nightmare has 3 utility highs, the NavyPoc has 0. The two have very little in common other than they both use lasers, and there's no rule that says you have to drop a few billion ISK on a Nightmare. Now yes, the Nightmare is one of the best ships to "pimp out", but beyond some faction heat sinks, nothing is really required. T2 Tachyons suck a good bit of cap, but they also punch harder than faction Tachyons. Other than faction HS, nothing is going to be affecting your damage unless you're using faction TC's and the like. So while you CAN pimp your tank out and go crazy with Gist X-types (btw you all definitely should, and this has nothing to do with the fact I'm selling some atm ;p), it's not really going to speed up your mission running. In short, faction heatsinks are FTW, and there's a strong argument for using faction Tach's, but beyond that you're basically only investing cash in it to achieve a stronger and/or perma tank. T2 Tachyons are all you ever need and actually punch harder, so it's not essential to go with faction. You really don't need to throw tons of ISK at a Nightmare in order to get exceptional performance from it. So basically nonsense except the part where you say that faction HS are good, and that "nothing is going to be affecting your damage unless you're using faction TC" (isn't the point that more DPS = better?). T2 Tachyons only do more damage at Large Beam Laser Spec IV and higher, and even then they still use considerably more cap than faction, noticeably more in my experience. Faction kit isn't that expensive when you figure you're spending 1b+ on the hull to begin with. Whilst I agree that none of it is "required" to be effective, it all helps and in my experience faction-fit all-round performs a lot better than T2. Obviously there are instances where faction is either no better or negligibly better than T2 except in fitting requirements, but similarly stuff like CN Invulns vs T2 Invulns is a night-and-day difference. My point, I guess, is that if you're spending 1b+ on the hull why cheap out on the parts?
Traderboz	Posted - 2009.05.05 21:20:00 - [62] Well, the simple reason would be that if your t2 tank is sufficient, even if faction/complex invulns, boosters, etc. improve your tank, they don't speed up your missioning. I tend to like TC's, and a faction one would be a decent (cheap) investment, but a lot of people don't even fit TC's so I didn't mention it as a must have. It might be "cool" to have a super tank, but practically speaking it's a waste of ISK for missioning. I do consider it worthwhile if you're going for a permarun tank, but that's a different story and most Nightmares aren't perma. And as far as t2 tach's, they do deal more damage and who trains for a specialization skill and doesn't take it to at least 4? 5 is often pushing it, although I have a few of them up to 5, but at skill level 4 you're still talking about a damage boost over faction gear. IMO there are logical arguments in favor of both T2 and faction, so it's hardly a situation where you should "go faction or go NavyPoc." I'm not saying people shouldn't spend money on their Nightmare fits. Like I said, it's one of the best ships to spend ISK on. I'm just saying that "Go all faction fit or go home/Navypoc" is a stupid statement. If you can get by with a T2 tank, you're fine using a T2 tank unless you want to permarun your Nightmare. Beyond the heatsinks, it's really not going to help your efficiency.
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.05 22:25:00 - [63] Just a quick question... using EFT, AN Tachs are pretty much same DPS as t2 Tachs at large spec lvl2. At lvl3 t2 becomes better. Why is everyone saying you need lvl4 to get the benefit?
Traderboz	Posted - 2009.05.05 22:57:00 - [64] I was just using the figure someone else gave. Whether it surpasses after 2 or 3, the point is T2 hit harder and are worth considering.
Kzintee Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.05 23:08:00 - [65] I've gone ahead and done some calculations on the whole "How many TEs should I use" question I posted earlier. THe graph can be found here: http://eve-files.com/dl/195808 Tested: 4x AN HS 1x TE with AN Multi and AN Gamma vs. 3x AN HS 2x TE with AN Multi and AN Gamma Short answer: Use 4 heat sinks with 1 TE. Below 47km use Multi crystal, at 47 switch to Gamma. This setup outdamages the 3xHS/2xTE setup at all ranges except [45km, 50km] window where DPS difference is extremely small.
Niomei	Posted - 2009.05.09 06:25:00 - [66] Hey everyone, liking the input so far. Anyways, I've been doing missions so far with this fit: [Nightmare, CURRENT ] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II True Sansha Power Diagnostic System True Sansha Power Diagnostic System Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Gist A-Type Heat Dissipation Field Gist A-Type Photon Scattering Field Cap Recharger II Shield Boost Amplifier II Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Ultraviolet L True Sansha Heavy Nosferatu True Sansha Heavy Nosferatu Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hobgoblin II x5 Warrior II x5 Zero problems whatsoever during missions with this. Most stuff dies before it can get close, I can run my booster for 5m with all guns blazing (and perm with guns off if things get tight and I just let my drones take out frigs--but that only happened once when I had to afk ^_^). Note: This is an omni-tank, I don't swap hardeners at all. I just accept and go.

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