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256 Titans - Balancing needed?

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ry ry	Posted - 2009.05.12 15:40:00 - [121] Edited by: ry ry on 12/05/2009 15:41:56 i am not a titan pilot, and have studiously avoided getting on any titan killmails for my entire eve career, but fwiw i think their weapon should be the deathstar megabeam thing, and it should cost a ****ing fortune to fire. i also like the idea of targettable supercap modules, but i don't know how that could be turned into a fun game mechanic. (very small sig radius on them?)
Garic Cavvar	Posted - 2009.05.12 15:48:00 - [122] just a thought, but a simple solution to the warp in, DDD, warp off, cloak tactic could simply be to make the DDD function like a cyno and instantly kill forward velocity (and ideally throw the thing into some kind of insane random spin, to throw off alignment, though thats probably a tad much). Either way the titan aligns and accelerates like a planet so its now forced to hang around on grid for the minute or so it takes to realign/get up to warping speed, allowing tacklers to grab it.
Bhaull	Posted - 2009.05.12 18:55:00 - [123] personaly I think this thread is taking the wrong approach to the titan 'problem', instead of nerfing them by not allowing them to cloak or getting rid of the whole warp in DD warp off tactic there should be more insentives to leave them on the field. Realy there are many ways you could do this. 1) Give them a gun bigger than that of a dread, and make them able to track BS's and pretty much one shot them (titans are the size of moons surely it's not outside the realms of possibility that you could get a decent enough targeting computer to be able to hit a BS) 2) Give them fighters and not just 5, 20 or 30 (maby a bit much) given the size difference between a MOM and a titan why the hell not? 3) Give them very very large gang boosts 4) Give them a sige/triage mode, makeing comitment to an engagement an actual commitment (not saying they have to be in this mode to deploy their DD) These changes would make people more inclined to deploy titans in an actual fleet battle, and is in my humble oppinion more the way CCP should address the titan situation, if they think they should at all. And I don't wan't people saying that this would make dreads/carriers/MOMs redundant, that would be like saying dreads make BS's redundant when hitting pos's, which is *******s because there are more Dread pilots than titan pilots, more BS pilots than Dread pilots etc etc. I'd just like to see titans being more than just platforms for AOE carnage and more versitile than they are now, which would make them more likely to stick around and be used more, why shouldn't you be able to hit a POS with a titan? At least they'd be more vulnrable. Make em stronger to make em more vulnrable I suppose is the jist of this post. P.S. - Even if they did not just do this to titans why not make T2 titans which are somewhere along the lines of what has been proposed here. It would be interesting to see 200 titans suddenly go out of game for a while if you needed a T1 titan to produce a T2 titan.
Xiaodown Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2009.05.12 21:20:00 - [124] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Mystafyre So there is thread in CAOD where this nice fellow is keeping track on titans in game. Currently number is over 250 (confirmed) and it's pretty ridiculous in my opinnion. My wish list is, * Titans should cost more * Titans should be stronger * Titans should be deadlier * There should be less Titans But then there is the problem... We would have 250 stronger and deadlier Titans if CCP would change them. However, something should be done with supercapitals, situation isn't good for anyone I think. Problem is that we will have more and more pilots able to fund Titan and actually fly one. My suggestion is, * Increase build cost * Make build and research times longer That's just one way, but sure there isn't easy answer. That would make them harder to replace if lost. But that's just one way of doing it. What do you think? Is current situation balanced? Titans should have a very large upkeep requirement (say a billion a month) Heh. Make it cost 500M to fire the doomsday in fuel. --
Kyodai Koga Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.05.13 05:42:00 - [125] Some thoughts: - Titan being an anti cap weapon is a good idea. To achieve this just make the DDD be affected by signature like a bomber's bomb, doing almost no damage to cruiser/frigs/destros, 1/4 damage to BS and full damage to Caps. Boost DDD damage like x4 or x5 so it's actually really useful on caps. Just have to tweak sig radius of the DDD and the cap ships to adjust the efficiency of the weapon versus its designated target while not being too harmful to subcap ships. Also, increase signature penalty when HID go into bubble mode to above BS sig. - Increase its HPs and resists tremendously, reduce its agility/acceleration even more. - Give it access to fighters to defend against ennemy support. - Take from them the jump portal thing and give it to motherships. Then comes the big changer to "how much titans are built", which would not be too hard to implement I think: - Make Titans require a certain item to be produced, but this item can't be produced itself, it only comes from salvaging other titans (100% success of salvaging it, or not ?) - Only seed a limited number of these items, maybe through the implementation of certain events where you could get it from ancient Jovian wrecks found in wormholes. As for the exact number, this would have to be calculated based on the power of the ships. This way, you can limit the number at your convenience while creating a new "game in the game" as someone having a titan means other will want to take it from him, so building and using it would be a real responsibility.
Monkey M3n Middle School Comedy Club	Posted - 2009.05.13 06:24:00 - [126] I think people should stop complaining
Mystafyre Caldari Dark Materials Heretic Nation	Posted - 2009.05.13 07:41:00 - [127] Titans should have 1000 times stronger doomsday! A real DOOMSDAY! Wich would kill all ships except supercapitals! And if they would warp to planet you could hear the screaming voices from the planet while the gravity makes wonders at there! Even better you could use Titans to affect planets trajectories and by that smash enemy fleet with PLANETS! Yarrr! I am bored, I am working, I just want to pew pew
Rylert	Posted - 2009.05.13 09:43:00 - [128] Apologies to anyone who as already posted this as I have to get to work and I just wanted to put my 2cents in... (I have not read all the posts yet) IMO, the way to balance Titans is easy... Just make a ship bigger than a Titan! I mean, if there are too many, just keep making bigger ships that are harder to construct,research,fly,train for,etc... Like T2 Titans called "SuperTitans" or something like that... CCP has done it before. Ships continue to get bigger so I don't think that Titans are the end of the line for "largest ship in EVE"
Warrio GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.13 09:52:00 - [129] The one single problem with titans is a problem with many ships atm: Cloaking. sXe
Shadowsword Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.05.13 10:33:00 - [130] Originally by: Bhaull 1) Give them a gun bigger than that of a dread, and make them able to track BS's and pretty much one shot them (titans are the size of moons surely it's not outside the realms of possibility that you could get a decent enough targeting computer to be able to hit a BS) 2) Give them fighters and not just 5, 20 or 30 (maby a bit much) given the size difference between a MOM and a titan why the hell not? 3) Give them very very large gang boosts 4) Give them a sige/triage mode, makeing comitment to an engagement an actual commitment (not saying they have to be in this mode to deploy their DD) These changes would make people more inclined to deploy titans in an actual fleet battle, and is in my humble oppinion more the way CCP should address the titan situation, if they think they should at all. And I don't wan't people saying that this would make dreads/carriers/MOMs redundant, that would be like saying dreads make BS's redundant when hitting pos's, which is *******s because there are more Dread pilots than titan pilots, more BS pilots than Dread pilots etc etc... If you remove titan's weakness against caps, without making them really more vulnerable against sub-caps, just how do you propose to beat any alliance that can field a dozen of them? Titans need to be nerfed, not to be turned into solopwnmobiles only other titans can beat. ------------------------------------------
Matti Harkonnen	Posted - 2009.05.13 10:51:00 - [131] Would it be better, if the DMG depends on the range to the titan? so..full dmg at 0km and then lowers some % per distance to the target? thus the titan needs to come much closer to make so serious dmg and risk to get tackled easier?
tib0	Posted - 2009.05.13 14:19:00 - [132] my 5 cents - no titan pilot will warp into the middle of dread fleet, because will be primary and dies horrible in a minute - titans are usually used in cynojamed systems, waiting on bubled gate to fire DD, no anti-titan mothership will be available im for maintenance fees for titans no cloaks maybe adjust DD so smaller/faster ships receive less dmg = DD will be anti BS weapon, but no anti support weapon
Sophia Truthspeaker Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2009.05.13 16:02:00 - [133] If multiple DDs are the problem, why not a module increasing the tank against a DD? Strontium Shield Generator High Slot Activation cost 100 Strontium. You put a script in it, allowing to choose one of the four possible DDs you want to counter. After you activated it, and you get hit by that kind of DD within a minute, you will get a supershield against all racial DDs for 10 minutes. That supershield will negate all damage done by all DD you encounter. Second possibility, Concord doesn't like DD anymore. So the more DD are fired within a grid, the bigger the chance that Concord sends a fleet to attack you. And Concord have no problem seeing through any cloak. Third possibility, DD are sophisticated weapons. So they have a chance to blow up, disabling warp drive for a time and damaging the titan. The more DD fired in the grid within a given timeframe, the higher the chance for failure. I also like the idea to split the damage of the DD over several pulses, basicly routing the titan in space for the duration or loosing some of the damage. Alternativ, remove the 1 hour cd of the DD, make it a one second delay weapon and lowering the damage done significant, doing something like 700 damage each second in the whole area. _________ Proposed Mining and Attribute Changes The truth is out there
Bhaull	Posted - 2009.05.13 23:12:00 - [134] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Bhaull 1) Give them a gun bigger than that of a dread, and make them able to track BS's and pretty much one shot them (titans are the size of moons surely it's not outside the realms of possibility that you could get a decent enough targeting computer to be able to hit a BS) 2) Give them fighters and not just 5, 20 or 30 (maby a bit much) given the size difference between a MOM and a titan why the hell not? 3) Give them very very large gang boosts 4) Give them a sige/triage mode, makeing comitment to an engagement an actual commitment (not saying they have to be in this mode to deploy their DD) These changes would make people more inclined to deploy titans in an actual fleet battle, and is in my humble oppinion more the way CCP should address the titan situation, if they think they should at all. And I don't wan't people saying that this would make dreads/carriers/MOMs redundant, that would be like saying dreads make BS's redundant when hitting pos's, which is *******s because there are more Dread pilots than titan pilots, more BS pilots than Dread pilots etc etc... If you remove titan's weakness against caps, without making them really more vulnerable against sub-caps, just how do you propose to beat any alliance that can field a dozen of them? Titans need to be nerfed, not to be turned into solopwnmobiles only other titans can beat. No not to say that they should be invulnerable to caps, I never said that their tank should be improved just give them a reason to stay on the field so that they can be tackled instead of just warp off and cloak. And as for beating them you drop 50-100 dreads on one and they'll go down, suficed to say that if you're fighteing an allience that can field 10+ titans you're gonna be able to muster a decent cap fleet of Dreads if you can't you shouldn't be fighting an allience/coalition which can bring 10 titans. The problem at the moment seems to be tacking them and getting them commited to fights not killing them, don't you think titan on titan fights would be interesting? A new mechanic to the game perhaps?
Warrio GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.14 04:02:00 - [135] Edited by: Warrio on 14/05/2009 04:04:46 Originally by: Bhaull don't you think titan on titan fights would be interesting? Yes, I do. However, the titan is not the ship to do it. Because the titan was terrible since its inception it needs to be re-looked at but will probably always hold it's role as a warp in, DD, warp out, cloak ship. Seeing a "Battle Station" style ship would need a new class of vessel. Imagine it!! Freighter sized fuel bay that can only hold Stront, nothing else. Seperate cargo bay for ammo etc. It's own type of siege mod that uses 500,000 m3 of stront per 2 hour cycle. A monster tank that can easily hold out 50-100 dreads, can use 7 guns/launchers, each dealing the damage of 2 or 3 dreads. Cost would be around 4 trillion isk with construction only possible in sov 4 with 10 POSs feeding "power" (via a special module that uses most of the POSs pg) to one CSAA POS for construction. Obviously, skillbook would have to cost around 150 bil and be a x18 training mod. The final word in e-peen. I came twice just writing it. PLUS, it can jump a whopping 1 Light year (2.25 with max skills). sXe
Flaming Butterfly	Posted - 2009.05.14 04:33:00 - [136] Convert all Titans to "AirZookas" for the ultimate in Pwnage and portability. Quote: There's no sneaking around with this massive doomsday weapon. Everybody that sees you will know that you are packing heat. Fires puffs of air (the same technique as smoke rings basically) up to 6 metres
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2009.05.14 12:49:00 - [137] It ain't that hard. Convert the grid-wide area of effect doomsday into a line-of-sight weapon. Like CCP planned it when they were developing titans anyways. Make one titan be able to fire an enormous laser beam which goes straight the line of the titans alignment, another racial titan a nice and spiffy forcefield like defensive device. Oh, and obviously remove the racial aspect. So that every titan can use any of those different doomsday devices. Otherwise you would have a prefered titan again very fast (like avatar nowadays..). Okay, thats because of the gangbonus, well, reconsider them too. It's quite some programming effort, but ccp will have to do it anyways sooner or later.
Andrea Skye Caldari The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.05.14 13:09:00 - [138] Two years of playing ive seen 2 titans in space. I would hardly say thats to many.
Ming Tso Caldari Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.05.14 13:54:00 - [139] So there are too many Titans in game? And we need to solve the problem of the "I-Win Button" of multiple doomsdays? The answer is simple. The Titan's Doomsday Device causes strain to the Space-Time continnum. A single doomsday has regular effect, as well as the second. However, a THIRD doomday device, friend or foe, triggered within 15 minutes of the other two.. causes a space-time breach, WHICH KILLS EVERYTHING, INCLUDING THE TITANS. The effect of a space-time breach is open to debate: which effects are worth the price of three titans? 1. Killing EVERYTHING in the immediate vicinty? (Doomsday) 2. Killing EVERYTHING logged on in the system? (Sun Crusher) 3. Immediately reinforcing all POS in the system? (But allowing ships at POS or in station to remain) 4. All of the above, as well as preventing entry to the system for 24 hours or downtime- Locking docking ramps and Stargates, and preventing logons for pilots logged off in system? The Pros: 1. This allows an outgunned alliance to 2-for-1 on titans, which removes a good number of these silly ships from the game, while allowing a great deal of underdog glory, 2. This allows for an NEWSWORTHY epic-level blast, which is why we play internet spaceships to begin with. (and we need something cooler and rarer to read about than titan death threads.) 3. This still allows room for the current tactic of Double Doomsdays but vastly increases the risk, tension, and FEAR involved in operating with them, resulting in fewer double doomsdays, reserving them only for the smart, the brave, or the foolish. 4. This allows an attacking alliance to pay a devastating price for a TRULY devastating weapon, with the potential for employing previously unheard-of rare game mechanics. What are the strategic values of simultaneously reinforcing every POS in a system? What about completely denying passage through system for a set amount of time? Keep all other factors the same, such as build time and cost, but ratchet up the fear and risk to something truly unmanageable. That's how you control the use of Titans.
Zerithia	Posted - 2009.05.15 06:58:00 - [140] Nerf the Titans, and make a T2 one.
Noodly Appendage Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.05.15 08:47:00 - [141] Originally by: Ming Tso So there are too many Titans in game? And we need to solve the problem of the "I-Win Button" of multiple doomsdays? The answer is simple. The Titan's Doomsday Device causes strain to the Space-Time continnum. A single doomsday has regular effect, as well as the second. However, a THIRD doomday device, friend or foe, triggered within 15 minutes of the other two.. causes a space-time breach, WHICH KILLS EVERYTHING, INCLUDING THE TITANS. The effect of a space-time breach is open to debate: which effects are worth the price of three titans? 1. Killing EVERYTHING in the immediate vicinty? (Doomsday) 2. Killing EVERYTHING logged on in the system? (Sun Crusher) 3. Immediately reinforcing all POS in the system? (But allowing ships at POS or in station to remain) 4. All of the above, as well as preventing entry to the system for 24 hours or downtime- Locking docking ramps and Stargates, and preventing logons for pilots logged off in system? The Pros: 1. This allows an outgunned alliance to 2-for-1 on titans, which removes a good number of these silly ships from the game, while allowing a great deal of underdog glory, 2. This allows for an NEWSWORTHY epic-level blast, which is why we play internet spaceships to begin with. (and we need something cooler and rarer to read about than titan death threads.) 3. This still allows room for the current tactic of Double Doomsdays but vastly increases the risk, tension, and FEAR involved in operating with them, resulting in fewer double doomsdays, reserving them only for the smart, the brave, or the foolish. 4. This allows an attacking alliance to pay a devastating price for a TRULY devastating weapon, with the potential for employing previously unheard-of rare game mechanics. What are the strategic values of simultaneously reinforcing every POS in a system? What about completely denying passage through system for a set amount of time? Keep all other factors the same, such as build time and cost, but ratchet up the fear and risk to something truly unmanageable. That's how you control the use of Titans. that's silly on many many levels Reality appears to have a strong liberal bias.
Laiyna The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.15 09:47:00 - [142] 4 titans on grid, 2 fired DD, 2 held in reserve. System was cyno jammed and they already had us out numbered 3:1. Besides that all gates where fully bubbled. Way to Manny Titans. And the only reason why is that you can not catch them, even if you take into account that they are bigger then a moon. I am in favor for 2 measurements: 1) If a DD is activated in a Cyno jammed system it blows up the Titan. 2) Titans and Motherships can not fit/use cloaks (enough other options to hide). Laiyna
Sun Ra The Royal Syndicate Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.05.15 12:09:00 - [143] Originally by: Sun Ra Problem its too easy for some to get isk You people are totally missing the point AHUH AHUH AHUH AHUH
Miss Harper	Posted - 2009.05.15 13:25:00 - [144] I had before an other idea of the titan but now the numbers are above 250 i do not know if it still interesting. I would like to see the titan as a mobile outpost. Including guns and docking options. See it as an advanced pos who includes bridging options. So you can use it as a forward base for attacks. Options of that pos is alliance hangars, Refitting, Repairing when anchored. And maybe optional for adding a load of guns. It needs also to be fueled like a pos. So it is not cheap to maintain it as a forward base. And ofcourse remove that stupid cloaking device. Or make a special capital version with huge disadvantages like recloack only possible after 15 minutes. After DD it needs 15 minutes for cloaking. Small thoughts
TuRtLe HeAd KrayZ Inc Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.15 13:35:00 - [145] Originally by: Amitious Turkey change the doomsday to a gang superdamage mod? And make the titan a logistics ship in the process? Ever watch Startrek Voyager ? Species 8742 or whatever... make the Titan Super weapon Require other Ships Focusing their Weapons for it to work. And it only works if all Are focusing. Nah Terrible idea.... ah well
TuRtLe HeAd KrayZ Inc Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.15 13:39:00 - [146] Originally there was a Story regarding Salvador Sarpati Stealing the a Titan from The gallente Federation and defecting to the serpentis .... or something similar. ( Iforget the full story) The Titan model that was used looked very similar in size to the Amarr revelation and design .... What about Just reclassifying the titan as another class And Re-introducing the titan at a later date.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.05.15 14:27:00 - [147] Originally by: Laiyna 2) Titans and Motherships can not fit/use cloaks (enough other options to hide). Better option than disallowing cloaks is to make it so cloaked ships can be probed. Cloak reduces the sig rad so that for a cloaked small ship the chances of a good hit is very difficult. Probing a cloaked supercap might take a few attempts but should be vastly easier.
Ming Tso Caldari Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.05.15 18:44:00 - [148] that's silly on many many levels Granted, some of those solutions obviously won't work- especially the whole "making the whole system inaccessable" thing. I was just thinking of suitable short-term strategic effects that could be notable enough to trade 3 titans for. Trade 1 titan for 2 titans and their entire support fleet? Then everything dies and we have 3 less titans in the game. Nobody likes being doomsdayed. And it's not supposed to be a common game mechanic. But when it is deployed, it needs to have that "I Win" characteristic to it. What this plan offers is "I Win, but this will really really suck if my arrogance, bravery, or stupidity are too high, and I lose both of my titans because I just HAD to Double Doomsday." Puts a great amount of uncertainty into the fleet fight. If such an "Omega Doomsday" were to exist, how would this alter the current use of Titans?
Zarest Nex Exercitus Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.05.16 08:43:00 - [149] Titans are the standard for mass fleet battles who ever has more calls the shots most of the time in a battle. what needs to happen is that titans need more risk to use in combat so why not change the DDD 1. When a titan uses it's DDD it can't jump out for system for 10 minutes and it's warp drive is disabled for 5. 2. When a titan uses it's DDD it's effective HP doubles for 10 minutes 3. When a titan uses it's DDD it can't use a cloak for 10 minutes. This would make the use of titans more risky to use and make them stronger at the same time. It gives time for the enemy to try and take out the titan. Just my 0.2 isk
Vittorrino	Posted - 2009.05.16 09:51:00 - [150] the guy press 2 instead of 1 so theres only 160 ish and like some dude said most are logistics so QQ more p.s. currently drunk

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