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Neamus	Posted - 2009.05.12 16:52:00 - [91] Big hugs for EvE! I've had my fingers burned with AoC and WAR, a shame because I had really high hopes for AoC. EvE just keeps me coming back over and over, ever since I first started playing back in 2003. There's just nothing out there to beat it. Having everyone together in the same environment is just epic. Saying that though, I've not seen a single mention here of EQ2. I've reprised an old character there, just for a change of pace from time to time, and I have to say that out of all the fantasy themed MMO's, imo EQ2 is still the best. I never really liked the cartoony feel of WoW.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.05.12 16:57:00 - [92] Originally by: Abye DaoC, isn't that the MMO where every 1337 PVPer had a Buffbot account ? Even funnier was that the support classes could be specced in a way that they were mostly only good for buffing spells and lousy healing. Noooo, the game wasn't designed at all with people having multiple accounts in mind at all Jup, all the cool kids had a buffbot and we didn't invite you to our groups. 2 buffbots per 8 man was enough. And smacking this is silly as Eve is far worse with the main to alt ratio in the pvp playgrounds (lowsec/0.0). Also your comment on support classes being specced as buffbots only is pure gibbirish or may have been true for you and led you quiting the game for being unable to find a group. Pure healing spec didnt work in pvp because of its cast cost versus effectiveness, also guard aggro played a big role in that, plus having yellow buffs helped in winning the fight you were loosing (were as buffbots had all reds). Besides they launched buffbotless servers which were a huge success. DAOC was and is one if not the best teamplay MMO's on the market (Eve certainly has the potential but the blob issue versus lost cost will never have it reach the same level). Eve it's strenght lays in it being the only pure MMO on the market with 300k subs on a single server, where as others are simply multiplayer games (you wrecked your rep, meh who cares, reroll on another server). - - - Originally by: CCP Prism X I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 17:02:00 - [93] ^^^ Loved Daoc pvp...minus the crowd control spam. Think it might have been the only pvp where I got a rush. _________________________ I disagree...
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 17:04:00 - [94] Originally by: Caius Sivaris Originally by: Bestofworst Leaving Eve to play any other MMO just leaves a terrible taste in my mouth that there isn't something going right. Terrible graphics, interface is somehow worse, This is downright frightening. They have something worse than corp UI, ghosts on overview and randomly relocating windows? They do have worse! It's horrible I tell you! They have, dare I say....Customizable UI's! BTW that terrible taste in your mouth is just the glue you were sucking on earlier. Now I gotta decide if I should put in a /sarcasm or not.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.05.12 17:14:00 - [95] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 10/05/2009 18:29:22 Originally by: ShadowMaiden 300k for EvE, 8 million for WoW. and someone in this thread said EvE isn't a niche game? ...there was me thinking that MMO players had no understanding of irony. That puts eve in 2nd place for western mmorpgs mind you. 4th place overall. It's not niche anymore. everquest was niche, with 30,000 subs when wow came out, it was the bggest mmorpg at the time. Damn kids. Right... Get your numbers straight before you even call anyone a kid, someone might actually be old enough to remember the exact numbers. You make it sound like first there was everquest then there was wow. Damn wow kids. It was more like UO -> EQ -> DAOC -> WOW/EQ2, DAOC being a pvp version of EQ sorta how WOW stole all the good stuff from their predecessors and got things right (with the extend to grinding that is). Old time UO players will say that DAOC was a dumbed down version of UO pvp with EQ grinding mechanics. Also EQ was way over the 30k you listed when WOW released with DAOC around 250k subs (DAOC lost about 150k to wow the first year which basicly killed the game because there wasnt a group that hadnt lost some of it's keyplayers which led to more players quiting and them getting into a washer effect. DAOC up to that point had heaps and heaps of 4+ years players, basicly sorta how eve is now. If someone produces an eve like game that removes your personal top 10 issues eve would just suffer as hard as DAOC did in the day and hit that same washer. Because that is basicly what happened to DAOC. Also yes it's great news EVE now has 300k subs but tbh it's bad news because it means they only sold about 50k boxes through the Atari deal (or at least got 50k subs out of the box sales with war numbers that would mean 150k boxes sold with aoc numbers that would mean having like 2 millions boxes sold... prolly will be around 70kish). Also doesn't have lotr a lot more subs then eve?
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.05.12 17:22:00 - [96] Originally by: SpaceSquirrels ^^^ Loved Daoc pvp...minus the crowd control spam. Think it might have been the only pvp where I got a rush. The post wow era really woke em up and issues like that were fixed by greatly reducing those timers. All in all it's a really solid game last I checked (closed my sub about 9 months ago as I still had it running without actually playing lol, havent6 played for over 2 years), they really did a great job of fixing all the main issues (TOA, CC, dps balancing, radar, spring to mind) but waaaaaay too late. - - - Originally by: CCP Prism X I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.05.12 17:31:00 - [97] Originally by: Vaal Erit CCP did not have some huge built-in fan base like WoW or Warhammer or LOTRO or made other games to fall back on for cash if their game starts to fail. EVE-Online is completely original (or as close as you can in today's world) and started from nothing. Actually that's not completly true; Eve very much recreated the Elite feel to the point this was a frequently asked question. CCP admitted they based EVE on Elite (or at least were heavily influenced). Elite = the LOTR for sci-fi gamers. Similar to someone launching a MOO based MMO. Anyways... it's not like Eve is safe from competition, E&B (wow in space) was a major hit in the beginning but their team couldnt keep up content wise to keep their subs interested. - - - Originally by: CCP Prism X I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
Ferdio Ricotez Gallente Killer Carebears United Interstellar Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.12 17:33:00 - [98] Edited by: Ferdio Ricotez on 12/05/2009 17:34:03 Originally by: Akita T The only question is, how many of those "Apocrypha box" subscribers will REMAIN subscribers 3 months from now ? Lifts up his hand Actually, I ordered my first EVE time code card from my local games store today. I absolutely dig this game, and I have no clue as to why so many people consider it inpenetrable... All you need is some patience to get your skills up to reasonable levels, and from there it's fun whilst you'll get to use new stuff every now and then, when more advanced skill training finishes. ----- Gallente flying Minmatar
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 17:40:00 - [99] Originally by: DrAtomic The post wow era really woke em up and issues like that were fixed by greatly reducing those timers. All in all it's a really solid game last I checked (closed my sub about 9 months ago as I still had it running without actually playing lol, havent6 played for over 2 years), they really did a great job of fixing all the main issues (TOA, CC, dps balancing, radar, spring to mind) but waaaaaay too late. Did they even have a population still 9 months ago? Don't get me wrong, I was a rabid fan of 5 years (came in about a month after shrouded isles) until my alliance leader blew up in my face over one of the dumbest things in the history of gaming. But the last time I checked there were maybe 60 in the frontiers and when you take account of bots then your not talking very many people. Maybe 2 fg's and 3 solo's with the rest being bridge campers. I was a molvik player myself and oh did I have some good times there. It was simply amazing that after 5 years you could still stick an assassin in front of a archer because people will just run straight forward.
Litakn	Posted - 2009.05.12 18:15:00 - [100] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 09/05/2009 17:19:23 Yeah but you have to remember Eve is a metagame. Alt for this alt for that. Whereas most other games just need a single account to be successful and on a level playing field. 300,000 subscribers for eve in real terms of actual individual people is probably more like 80,000 subscribers. All MMOs have this type of subscription slant, not just EVE. When I as big into EverQuest almost everyone had 2 or 3 accounts, I personally owned 2 and had access to another 2. And I knew a guy "Sam" who had 24 accounts...
Darwin Duck Quest for the holy Grail Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.12 18:28:00 - [101] Originally by: Blake Shepperd I can't believe people still play SWG. Last time I was on the word GHOST TOWNS come to mind. At release it had something but as the numbers dropped it just did not seem like a world. It was like deserted space. Eve is so much more. Actually, Bria, Starsider and a few other servers are packed now. SOE has offered free character transfers from the low populated servers to a high pop of your choice. But it's quite laggy now on the populated servers. Guess they will shut down the low populated servs soon and redeploy the freed up hardware for the other server clusters. But the game is still quite boring though.
Murashu Agony's End	Posted - 2009.05.12 20:05:00 - [102] Originally by: shwarzkauph I awaiting the arrival of Star Wars The old Republic to get released. I want to be excited about Star Wars but I just don't see it being a hit for those of us who love PvP. Since being let down by AoC & WAR (both designed to encourage lots of PvP) I am leary about any new game coming out. _______ Murashu Agony's End
Arleonenis Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.12 20:36:00 - [103] Aye not many games there that have lasting appeal. Most recently released mmo and semi-mmo are just betas or in some cases even alphas. AoC here comes to mind when it was released it was alpha state practically, now after everything patched up its practically beta. Crafting there is crap, lack of content after 60s is so aparent that you start to wonder what are you doing here, raiding hmmm whats the point to it really if gear isn't that important and you don't know what to do with it in even when you get it... WAR, well beta clone of WoW with code that was practically wroten on knee in some bar... so many memory leaks and bugs is only possible when you try hard to implement them or you don't know what you are doing (or are pushed by timeframe so badly that you just can't create anything cohesive and double check your work, most likely case)... What else here? Star Trek Online, i stoped looking at it when it was announced space combat will be in 2D and lots of features was turned off Star Wars KOTOR like... well when i noticed they going in cartoonish look... well "WoW clone" came to my mind immediately and I felt something unpleasent in my mouth, if they want to clone something and remake it it is most likely worst than original and i didn't liked original WoW in first case, not my style of game... So whats left? EVE only ofcorse untill they make something better though i don't have high hopes for that;) (sorry for my english it got quite rusted since last time I used it)
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 20:45:00 - [104] There have been so many "cookie cutter" MMO's that have come out. Although I'll give warhammer some credit. It did come out with a couple of good idea's. PQ's, Join anywhere groups, and the funny "roll" loot system. However after that it was button mash-tastic. Hopefully the up and comers like Black prophecy, and Jump Gate evo which are twitch based will feel different. Been waiting for an MMO to get twitched based gaming right, and use it to add depth....or make better use of players actual skill in that department. I'm guessing the star trek, Star Gate starwars (anyone see a trend here) MMO's aren't going to do a damn thing original or interesting aside from use those franchised names to sell the product. _________________________ I disagree...
Bestofworst Gallente Double Eagle Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.12 20:50:00 - [105] A two side conflict with no penalty for switching will always kill PvP games. FW is great in that if you Plex enough for one faction, to switch sides you'll have to grind faction standing, so you'll be sure to play with the side you want to stick with, and still allows players to slowly but eventually make up for any bad choices. ---- <Insert Wit>
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 20:55:00 - [106] Originally by: SpaceSquirrels There have been so many "cookie cutter" MMO's that have come out. Although I'll give warhammer some credit. It did come out with a couple of good idea's. PQ's, Join anywhere groups, and the funny "roll" loot system. However after that it was button mash-tastic. I hated that loot system! Jesus, bust your ass getting each stage done and getting to the end boss and you start off ranking first, but after the roll you end up in 5th and some guy who stepped in and swung on the boss 3 times gets first.
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 21:01:00 - [107] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: SpaceSquirrels There have been so many "cookie cutter" MMO's that have come out. Although I'll give warhammer some credit. It did come out with a couple of good idea's. PQ's, Join anywhere groups, and the funny "roll" loot system. However after that it was button mash-tastic. I hated that loot system! Jesus, bust your ass getting each stage done and getting to the end boss and you start off ranking first, but after the roll you end up in 5th and some guy who stepped in and swung on the boss 3 times gets first. Lol that was BS, but on the rare occasion it did work it was fun, and different. So props for originality...just poor implementation. _________________________ I disagree...
Bestofworst Gallente Double Eagle Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.12 21:04:00 - [108] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: SpaceSquirrels There have been so many "cookie cutter" MMO's that have come out. Although I'll give warhammer some credit. It did come out with a couple of good idea's. PQ's, Join anywhere groups, and the funny "roll" loot system. However after that it was button mash-tastic. I hated that loot system! Jesus, bust your ass getting each stage done and getting to the end boss and you start off ranking first, but after the roll you end up in 5th and some guy who stepped in and swung on the boss 3 times gets first. That's why I liked being the Paladin co-class lead. I could swing my weight around to get people who deserve it gear and raid spots. ---- <Insert Wit>
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 21:07:00 - [109] Originally by: Bestofworst A two side conflict with no penalty for switching will always kill PvP games. FW is great in that if you Plex enough for one faction, to switch sides you'll have to grind faction standing, so you'll be sure to play with the side you want to stick with, and still allows players to slowly but eventually make up for any bad choices. That is why I like side-less games now. I saw it in DAOC the whole time, especially being a member of the red headed midgard. WAR was even worse and it didn't take long to see which server had an over abundance of order and which ones had the over abundance of chaos. Theres been only 2 games I've seen where the only sides out there are the ones you choose and that's eve and AOC and both have been more enjoyable for me. In fact I was kicking myself for overlooking AOC because I wanted WAR to be decent and I should have known better considering who was making it. But in the end it really doesn't take a genius to figure out that 2 sided games just do not last. Every body wants to win, and if they are not winning, they find a means to win and that includes switching sides until the battlefield is grossly lopsided. A lopsided battlefield makes it unfun for one side leading to more unsubs which then leads to a boring game for the other side due to a lack of targets and that leads to unsubs. *editors note: I left LOTRO out because I remember when I played it that it was a one sided game. Sure you had PvMP but it really wasn't that great.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.05.12 23:34:00 - [110] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Did they even have a population still 9 months ago? Don't get me wrong, I was a rabid fan of 5 years (came in about a month after shrouded isles) until my alliance leader blew up in my face over one of the dumbest things in the history of gaming. But the last time I checked there were maybe 60 in the frontiers and when you take account of bots then your not talking very many people. Maybe 2 fg's and 3 solo's with the rest being bridge campers. I was a molvik player myself and oh did I have some good times there. It was simply amazing that after 5 years you could still stick an assassin in front of a archer because people will just run straight forward. I've played Bors-Hibernia and stuck with it for about 5 years as well, never even got beyond level 6 or something on Albion or Midgard. What surprised me was how different Albion and Midgard were to Hibernia. In that sense DAOC sorta had 3 mmos in one. I expected to find the server completly dead (I'm european and was playing on the US servers) but just wanted to have one last stroll before closing my account for ever. There was about 100 peepz online and after a minute of 5 I started getting tells from friends who were working on alts. That was way more then I expected, I asked one of them for buffbot services (gave my buffbot away and couldnt remember the pass lol) and went for a solo stroll through the laby and frontier ending up with 14 kills for 2 deads. Was a nice way of closing out my account. One of my DAOC buddies msn-ed me saying that there are rumors floating about a DAOC relaunch with revamped frontier, UI and gfx (wouldnt surprise me if they steal stuff from wow and war that worked and get that in as well). - - - Originally by: CCP Prism X I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
Cal V	Posted - 2009.05.13 11:26:00 - [111] Originally by: DrAtomic Originally by: Micheal Dietrich One of my DAOC buddies msn-ed me saying that there are rumors floating about a DAOC relaunch with revamped frontier, UI and gfx (wouldnt surprise me if they steal stuff from wow and war that worked and get that in as well). It¦s dead Jim, let it go.
Phainex	Posted - 2009.05.13 23:03:00 - [112] Originally by: Cal V Originally by: Micheal Dietrich One of my DAOC buddies msn-ed me saying that there are rumors floating about a DAOC relaunch with revamped frontier, UI and gfx (wouldnt surprise me if they steal stuff from wow and war that worked and get that in as well). It¦s dead Jim, let it go. DAOC will never die! YOU LIE!
Varrakk Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.14 12:55:00 - [113] Im just wondering, since theres so many MMOs launched the last year. Right of the bat, they get massive subscribers and a playerbase drop months after. They making money or taking a loss? EVE started small and expanded, but the new games have to start pretty large scale to even be competable. So when does games like AOC/WAR/DF become profitable? 300k playerbase doesnt sound like much to me. Tho EVE is very different, since the average player plays much longer.
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2009.05.14 13:44:00 - [114] Originally by: Murashu Originally by: shwarzkauph I awaiting the arrival of Star Wars The old Republic to get released. I want to be excited about Star Wars but I just don't see it being a hit for those of us who love PvP. Since being let down by AoC & WAR (both designed to encourage lots of PvP) I am leary about any new game coming out. No player housing... no crafting... I think I'll pass. Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator
Phainex	Posted - 2009.05.19 16:46:00 - [115] Grats CCP keep up the good work
Vain Eldritch	Posted - 2009.05.20 14:04:00 - [116] Edited by: Vain Eldritch on 20/05/2009 14:04:51 Originally by: Malcanis I hope the new star wars MMO is good - a little competition will do EvE nothing but good. Hmm... looks like SW:TOR is such a very different game from Eve. It's shaping up to be another on-rails themepark like AoC. It is not a sandbox, there will be no player housing - I'm seeing it like AoC but with NPC followers, no gore and very little in T&A deparment. I can only speak for myself, and I am a very new Eve subscriber (GTC) but have played many MMORPG's and some for years, but SW:TOR is so wildly different form Eve and so smilar to the kinds of games I left behind, that if do decide to go back to the SW universe, it will something I dabble with and not my main game - Eve will be that for quite a few years I think.
Marko Riva Caldari Kneb Corp Ghosts of the Hallowed Sword	Posted - 2009.05.20 14:58:00 - [117] DAoC was fantastic, loved it to bits even though some classes were amazingly overpowered (mostly Midgard). I recently restarted with Vanguard again just to have something to do while I gain SP in EVE and it really is great, although it obviously lacks PVP. It's SUCH a revelation and really feels like an old school MMO; vast areas, no hard focussing on processing the player through the game. It feels like DAoC tbh (minus the RVR).
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:52:00 - [118] Originally by: Marko Riva DAoC was fantastic, loved it to bits even though some classes were amazingly overpowered (mostly Midgard). I recently restarted with Vanguard again just to have something to do while I gain SP in EVE and it really is great, although it obviously lacks PVP. It's SUCH a revelation and really feels like an old school MMO; vast areas, no hard focussing on processing the player through the game. It feels like DAoC tbh (minus the RVR). Ewwww PVP was what made daoc good, the PVE was just horrible mindless mob camping/grinding. I guess some folks like sitting in the same spot for hours and hours, but I never did. Was hoping they would come out with origins, but I'm guessing that ship has sailed. _________________________ I disagree...
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.20 23:30:00 - [119] Originally by: Marko Riva DAoC was fantastic, loved it to bits even though some classes were amazingly overpowered (mostly Midgard). I forgot to tell you how painful it was to blow hot coffee through my nose this morning when I read that. I've got a sneaky suspicion that you were an alb.
Marko Riva Caldari Kneb Corp Ghosts of the Hallowed Sword	Posted - 2009.05.22 09:12:00 - [120] Edited by: Marko Riva on 22/05/2009 09:15:10 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: Marko Riva DAoC was fantastic, loved it to bits even though some classes were amazingly overpowered (mostly Midgard). I forgot to tell you how painful it was to blow hot coffee through my nose this morning when I read that. I've got a sneaky suspicion that you were an alb. Alb but mostly Hib, you're going to tell me that zerkers didn't for a long time had their damage modifiers messed up to a point they did twice the damage as they should, while lying about it? Or Savages who 'sometimes' did triple/quad damage, and by sometimes you mean 'every fight'? Warlock perhaps, who could frontload damage like no other. Bonedancer, the one man army? Insta stunning healers with cast animations that were hard to decipher so he didn't stand out? Yes, Midgard really had it difficult. I'm not saying hib/alb didn't have their issues but by god, midgard had em all.

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