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Pyrostasis Caldari Rage Quit Inc	Posted - 2009.05.09 16:56:00 - [1] Edited by: Pyrostasis on 09/05/2009 16:57:32 I was rather shocked to see this yesterday, I knew EvE was doing well, but had no idea they were doing this well. Read here I guess my friends can no longer say Im just playing some silly little niche game, EvE has to be considered a AAA MMO now like it or not. I just find it rather refreshing that what started as a small development team with a small following has grow into a force to be reckoned with. Hopefully in the coming years this will lead to more dev teams thinking outside the box and focusing on long term rather than short term cash grabs.
Ryusoath Orillian Minmatar INDUSTIENCE	Posted - 2009.05.09 17:00:00 - [2] AAA? i would have considered eve to be not only AAA, but in fact pretty much the ONLY MMO. wow has, what 5000 per server... MAX, and if more than 100 are in the same area it lags like hell. to me , an 'mmo' has to have all its players in the same world. sharding is just developer laziness plus extreme cheapness.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.09 17:01:00 - [3] Another step to the final objective. WORLD CONQUEST! ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.09 17:14:00 - [4] I'm not surprised. I expected WAR to be in the condition that it was in upon release but a major issue was that not only did it not improve, it actually got worse. I swear after every patch it would lag worse and worse to the point where I was still framing at 40+ battle scenes. And good luck taking a major city without the whole server crashing, in fact that actually turned into a tactic for defenders. They had broken classes, and there is the inevitable one side out performing the other. I saw it back in daoc also. Any time you do a simple good versus bad as soon as one side starts to win everyone dumps their characters on the losing side and crosses over until the 2 sides are completely lopsided. Then people start to lose interest and fun and the #s drop. As for the smirks about WOW I can post so many similarities and link other threads from GD itself to back my case that the religious eve zealots would want to burn me at the stake but I don't feel like turning this into an eve fanboi WOW flame fest.
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.05.09 17:15:00 - [5] Yeah but you have to remember Eve is a metagame. Alt for this alt for that. Whereas most other games just need a single account to be successful and on a level playing field. 300,000 subscribers for eve in real terms is probably more like 80,000 subscribers. if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature.
Pyrostasis Caldari Rage Quit Inc	Posted - 2009.05.09 17:22:00 - [6] Didnt CCP release some numbers a while back saying alts were less than 20% of the pop?
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.09 17:24:00 - [7] Originally by: Pyrostasis Didnt CCP release some numbers a while back saying alts were less than 20% of the pop? How do you tell who is an alt and who isn't. I've got 2 characters but they could both be my main, just mains in different fields.
Ryusoath Orillian Minmatar INDUSTIENCE	Posted - 2009.05.09 17:24:00 - [8] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 09/05/2009 17:19:23 Yeah but you have to remember Eve is a metagame. Alt for this alt for that. Whereas most other games just need a single account to be successful and on a level playing field. 300,000 subscribers for eve in real terms of actual individual people is probably more like 80,000 subscribers. bull**** 300,000 is 300,000. is doesn't matter if one guy has every account ccp still gets paid and eve still continues.
Fallen Elite Retrogenesis	Posted - 2009.05.09 17:24:00 - [9] Edited by: Fallen Elite on 09/05/2009 17:25:16 Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 09/05/2009 17:19:23 Yeah but you have to remember Eve is a metagame. Alt for this alt for that. Whereas most other games just need a single account to be successful and on a level playing field. 300,000 subscribers for eve in real terms of actual individual people is probably more like 80,000 subscribers. I would wager at best, half of the eve population has an alt account, it's probably closer to 150,000 to 200,000 unique subscribers. Edit- Thinking about it that seems ridiculous, I can't imagine so many people with alt accounts. The large majority of EVE is without them, the forum is a small percentage of the eve population. ------
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.05.09 17:30:00 - [10] tabula rasa check age of conan check warhammer online check psssh the new mmo's are dying out :) next comming up lotrO , WOW, KOTOR, star trek AND JGE to hit the chopping block. it is getting mroe popular i had 2 people ask me if we had the box in my store with out me saying anything about it this make AC a happy guy :) if you buy eve in a box from my game store i will give you isk (GAME , parkgate rotherham)
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.05.09 17:30:00 - [11] This is easily explained with one word. Paul Barnett Wherever you went - Here you are.
THE L0CK	Posted - 2009.05.09 17:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Ghoest This is easily explained with one word. Paul Barnett Isn't that 2 words?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.05.09 18:03:00 - [13] The only question is, how many of those "Apocrypha box" subscribers will REMAIN subscribers 3 months from now ? EVE issues\|Mining revamp\|Build stuff\|Make ISK
Serpents smile	Posted - 2009.05.09 18:04:00 - [14] Originally by: THE L0CK Originally by: Ghoest This is easily explained with one word. Paul Barnett Isn't that 2 words? Sometimes you guy's are so terrible, I wanne hug you all.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.05.09 18:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Serpents smile Originally by: THE L0CK Originally by: Ghoest This is easily explained with one word. Paul Barnett Isn't that 2 words? Sometimes you guy's are so terrible, I wanne hug you all. o/ if you buy eve in a box from my game store i will give you isk (GAME , parkgate rotherham)
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2009.05.09 19:01:00 - [16] Edited by: Estel Arador on 09/05/2009 19:01:18 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich I swear after every patch it would lag worse and worse to the point where I was still framing at 40+ battle scenes. And good luck taking a major city without the whole server crashing, in fact that actually turned into a tactic for defenders. Sounds like EVE to me FREE! jumpclone service - over 200 locations!
Weight What	Posted - 2009.05.09 19:34:00 - [17] Originally by: Magic Dragonrider Tao Ball A breeze unlocks the paddock gate. The sun sets. Make preparations to leave. ----------------------------------------------- Annonymous, trading as "Weight What".
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.09 19:44:00 - [18] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 09/05/2009 17:19:23 Yeah but you have to remember Eve is a metagame. Alt for this alt for that. Whereas most other games just need a single account to be successful and on a level playing field. 300,000 subscribers for eve in real terms of actual individual people is probably more like 80,000 subscribers. You're implying that the average player has 4 accounts. Yeah, I think not.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.09 19:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Pyrostasis Didnt CCP release some numbers a while back saying alts were less than 20% of the pop? IIRC, that was only for credit card subs. There's no easy way to tell for GTC subs. 0.0 alliance members tend to be alt-heavy. Empire dwellers not so much.
Twin blade Minmatar The Triangle Veneratio Venator Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.09 20:28:00 - [20] I played Warhammer till patch 1.2 it was an epic epic epic fail no game has ever had a patch close to as bad at what 1.2 was to warhammer. All Tank`s destroyed All Melee class worthless All Magic based class overpowerd (IE titan with DD smart bombs) All AOE heals insanely overpowerd Add massive ammouts of lag Make end game PVP worse Useless support Crs(GM`s) The list never ends for how bad 1.2 was. Over all im still abit shocked eve has only hit 300.000 i have played on and off since the beta and i was sure eve would of passed 300.000 along time ago. Death is great rember where all dying to get there.
arbiter reborn	Posted - 2009.05.09 20:53:00 - [21] the war games never really were that interesting to me, i much prefered tablketop (not that ive done it since i was 13) either way the games never seemed to capture the spirit of warhammer, too cartoony and too small scale imo
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.09 20:54:00 - [22] Originally by: Akita T The only question is, how many of those "Apocrypha box" subscribers will REMAIN subscribers 3 months from now ? Well after biomassing a nub trade alt to make room for a new character after the retail release I can easily say this: If new people can't figure eve out and make lots of iskies in the first few days with all the new well made tutorials with its free ships and skills in addition to the 15~20 million isk from the epic arc then they really do need to gb2wow. The learning cliff now has a dangly rope ladder that you can climb in high winds with no safety net instead of the smack em on the arse and out the station you go tutorial of before. Originally by: Achar Losa i might be just a 6 year old stupid boy, but he's a CCP dev writing in the forums!
shwarzkauph bullets with butterfly wings	Posted - 2009.05.09 22:22:00 - [23] I awaiting the arrival of Star Wars The old Republic to get released. So far, the game looks to be awesome. Its being developed by Bioware, anything from Bioware is awesome. That may be the game I leave EVE for. Ive played EVE since the beginning, May '03. Seen it all. Done it all. EVE is a Great game and Deserves and has earned all the achievements and praise they have gained. u lose
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.09 22:27:00 - [24] Originally by: shwarzkauph I awaiting the arrival of Star Wars The old Republic to get released. So far, the game looks to be awesome. Its being developed by Bioware, anything from Bioware is awesome. That may be the game I leave EVE for. Ive played EVE since the beginning, May '03. Seen it all. Done it all. EVE is a Great game and Deserves and has earned all the achievements and praise they have gained. I hope the new star wars MMO is good - a little competition will do EvE nothing but good.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.05.09 22:32:00 - [25] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Akita T The only question is, how many of those "Apocrypha box" subscribers will REMAIN subscribers 3 months from now ? If new people can't figure eve out and make lots of iskies in the first few days with all the new well made tutorials with its free ships and skills in addition to the 15~20 million isk from the epic arc then they really do need to gb2wow. I can't disagree with that statement, however that was my point : many of the "box" subscribers will probably do just that, risking to make this the first time that EVE actually loses a noticeable portion of its userbase (because let's face it, so far, it has almost exclusively gone up, or if it was a brief down, it was short and small). EVE issues\|Mining revamp\|Build stuff\|Make ISK
E Vile	Posted - 2009.05.10 02:05:00 - [26] NO other MMO has EVE's population as you see on the server because EVE is the only that has everyone in 1 Universe. Not split down into copies.
Bestofworst Gallente Double Eagle Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.10 02:20:00 - [27] I just spent this afternoon playing with the Lord of the rings Online trial. I can say I really have lost hope for all others MMOs. Leaving Eve to play any other MMO just leaves a terrible taste in my mouth that there isn't something going right. Terrible graphics, interface is somehow worse, absolutely no players around me and leveling system is a pointless grind. Eve is THE Massively Multiplayer Online Game. Call me a fanboy but I had a taste of Eve Online and 3 months in now all I can say is I still have a hunger for more in Eve.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.05.10 02:27:00 - [28] That 20% number was taken During the reading of players in high sec to low sec to 00 thing. It tracked IP addresses and such, and it was found that of all of the IP adresses, only 10% had muliple log ins. The 20%, is the guess work based on this by the forums. I have one account, and most people are the same. Hell most people don't even want to pay any money for an mmo.
Adeline Grey	Posted - 2009.05.10 03:08:00 - [29] CCP is doing better and continues to grow, but I would not compare Eve to Warhammer. Warhammer is fail.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.05.10 03:29:00 - [30] Originally by: Adeline Grey CCP is doing better and continues to grow, but I would not compare Eve to Warhammer. Warhammer is fail. It's not, it's comparing subscriber numbers. Warhammer's not a bad game, it's got a different design philosophy than the typical MMO (though obviously derivative of Dark Age of Camelot, save dev and all). To be honest the only reason I don't play it is because of some horrible connection issues I was having shortly after launch. The integration of PVP(RVR) into the PVE parts of the game was very well done. warp drive active \| nature vraie
wickedpheonix	Posted - 2009.05.10 07:29:00 - [31] Congratulations and champagne are definitely in order And I do agree with the common sentiment - Eve is THE only MMO out there. Everything else might as well just be an RPG where you're paying the company (cough, Blizzard, cough) to run the server instead of freeloading; in fact, it happens with WoW when pirates run private servers. It doesn't work for EVE because EVE is better than that - player driven economy etc, none of this would work with private servers. The game is what it is because of the people and it can only get better. Here's to another 300,000 joining the family
Wolfie276	Posted - 2009.05.10 09:24:00 - [32] \o/ EVE FTW!!! grats CCP, u did some great work on eve, i can play any other game but it ALWAYS ends up with thinkinh its boring...guess what...i never get bored of EvE
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.05.10 11:17:00 - [33] I loved playing DAoC. You really shouldnt compare it to EVE thought because its a completely different experience by design. Its like trying to decide if fork or a cup is better. Warhammer however fails when compared to DAoC. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Malarkie	Posted - 2009.05.10 11:46:00 - [34] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Adeline Grey CCP is doing better and continues to grow, but I would not compare Eve to Warhammer. Warhammer is fail. It's not, it's comparing subscriber numbers. Warhammer's not a bad game, it's got a different design philosophy than the typical MMO (though obviously derivative of Dark Age of Camelot, save dev and all). To be honest the only reason I don't play it is because of some horrible connection issues I was having shortly after launch. The integration of PVP(RVR) into the PVE parts of the game was very well done. I would only agree with that in T1. In T2 it was "meh"....and in T3-T4 it was not true at all. The PvP in that game is great. But thats all it had going for it when I left. The PvE was terribad. And there was nothing....nothing to do that was remotely as enjoyable as scenario grinding and....after so many TA's....it became hard to even consider that "fun". Grinding public quests solo? Not fun. On an Open RvR server ....a healer grinding a public quest for a few hours should be expected to.....I don't know be killed(or at the very least attacked)...by someone...nope. No one was around. The game has some much potential....yet is lacking in every area it has potential.
Preda Ellalle	Posted - 2009.05.10 12:11:00 - [35] And it only took 6 years
Guttripper State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.10 12:15:00 - [36] In my opinion, it seems the latest batch of games attempt to have "everything" all at once. There is no gradual building stages upon a concrete foundation - the skysc****r is being built on swampy lands. Whereas older games like EverQuest, and to an extent, my nearly three years of EVE, were a gradual release of expansion materials for the game. Earlier this week, we celebrated EVE being six years old. If everything involved with the game today, and potential future materials were released all at once six years ago, then would the game have survived, or crashed and burned like the latest batch of games? And would a player base of today accept a simpler game like the very early days of EverQuest and EVE and wait for it to grow? Or are these developers of today's new games under the impression and pressure to ~dump~ everything into the pot at once and hope for a good stew, especially when it seems society as a whole seeks instant gratification before the next big thing tomorrow? Whereas CCP is slow in altering aspects in the game, how many other threads appear demanding CCP change something now?
Haks'he Lirky Burning Bright Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.10 12:17:00 - [37] Edited by: Haks''he Lirky on 10/05/2009 12:18:06 Originally by: Ryusoath Orillian AAA? i would have considered eve to be not only AAA, but in fact pretty much the ONLY MMO. wow has, what 5000 per server... MAX, and if more than 100 are in the same area it lags like hell. to me , an 'mmo' has to have all its players in the same world. sharding is just developer laziness plus extreme cheapness. The massive in terms of wow has never really been there, the world it self is essentially just like a Battlenet lobby where people decide to go somewhere to play (with the added benefit of seeing scenery in the lobby). The massive multiplayer experience is capped at 64 people doing something together and that can quite honestly not be called a massive multiplayer experience. Counterstrike is a massive multiplayer game if wow is one.
Dhaaka Vincatar	Posted - 2009.05.10 12:46:00 - [38] Edited by: Dhaaka Vincatar on 10/05/2009 12:49:02 Edited by: Dhaaka Vincatar on 10/05/2009 12:48:34 I played Warhammer when it was released, I play the tabletop Warhammer game and I was really looking forward to it. It did have some great ideas, I liked Public Quests especially as well as the EXP for PvP idea. However, I have never, ever, in my whole life, played a game with as many glitches, problems and issues as Warhammer Online. Sure, it's an MMO and it's in an era where developers feel no need to finish their games because they can get people to pay THEM to beta test it (1st month of release). However, in the big faction major city on Order (Altdorf, seems like it should be a system in Eve doesn't it :) ), I crashed to desktop every 5 minutes. I dunno if it was a memory leak, my graphics card didn't cut it, or some other problem, but it was like clockwork. I also had to grab a manual graphics configuration (ie. a settings group I gave to my card only for WAR.exe and nothing else) from some helpful person on their website in order to get the graphics above "choppy and terrible" because the client automatically picked the worst possible settings. I believe everyone with an Nvidia card had to do something similar. It was fun for a while but I didn't play for longer then 2 months I don't think. Now that I quit I don't ever feel some strange impulse to go back, like I do with EVE every time I quit... Did they make the EVE software out of virtual crack *******? EDIT: Wow, drugs are censored. That seems a little restrictive, swearwords I can understand but real words referring to controlled substances?
ShadowMaiden Amarr Divine Radiance	Posted - 2009.05.10 12:49:00 - [39] 300k for EvE, 8 million for WoW. and someone in this thread said EvE isn't a niche game? ...there was me thinking that MMO players had no understanding of irony.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.10 12:54:00 - [40] Originally by: Guttripper In my opinion, it seems the latest batch of games attempt to have "everything" all at once. There is no gradual building stages upon a concrete foundation - the skysc****r is being built on swampy lands. Whereas older games like EverQuest, and to an extent, my nearly three years of EVE, were a gradual release of expansion materials for the game. Earlier this week, we celebrated EVE being six years old. If everything involved with the game today, and potential future materials were released all at once six years ago, then would the game have survived, or crashed and burned like the latest batch of games? And would a player base of today accept a simpler game like the very early days of EverQuest and EVE and wait for it to grow? Or are these developers of today's new games under the impression and pressure to ~dump~ everything into the pot at once and hope for a good stew, especially when it seems society as a whole seeks instant gratification before the next big thing tomorrow? Whereas CCP is slow in altering aspects in the game, how many other threads appear demanding CCP change something now? That's a pretty good point. Mechanics that are good for 50k new players are different from the mechanics that are good for 300k older players
Darzokun	Posted - 2009.05.10 13:06:00 - [41] EVE is like whine the older it is the better it become's and the more you see of it on the forums.
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.10 14:15:00 - [42] Might check back to WAR...played for a few months, but the game play is so simplistic....button mash, and have a good healer. Which is to bad cause DAOC pvp was the best hands down....minus of course the outta control CC. EVE is pretty niche considering how un user friendly it is, and the player base also adds to the unfriendliness. We live in the console age these days where people want insta and easy. So EVE while a good game will never take down wow, and most likely hover around the same sub numbers. And we'll have to see how Black Prophecy, and Jump gate evo do. Though from what i've been reading besides being in space with ships each one will be nothing like the other. (just hoping Jump gate isn't going to be WOW in space.) _________________________ I disagree...
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.05.10 15:00:00 - [43] Originally by: Darzokun EVE is like whine the older it is the better it become's and the more you see of it on the forums. too true, here's to another 6 years. or hell even 10-20 years of eve. Originally by: Guttripper There is no gradual building stages upon a concrete foundation - the skysc****r is being built on and here's to eve's wonderful word filter ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Abye Perkone	Posted - 2009.05.10 16:17:00 - [44] DaoC, isn't that the MMO where every 1337 PVPer had a Buffbot account ? Even funnier was that the support classes could be specced in a way that they were mostly only good for buffing spells and lousy healing. Noooo, the game wasn't designed at all with people having multiple accounts in mind at all ___ CCP Garthagk: "And that is why GMs aren't DEVs"
Bestofworst Gallente Double Eagle Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.10 16:29:00 - [45] Originally by: SpaceSquirrels Might check back to WAR...played for a few months, but the game play is so simplistic....button mash, and have a good healer. Which is to bad cause DAOC pvp was the best hands down....minus of course the outta control CC. EVE is pretty niche considering how un user friendly it is, and the player base also adds to the unfriendliness. We live in the console age these days where people want insta and easy. So EVE while a good game will never take down wow, and most likely hover around the same sub numbers. And we'll have to see how Black Prophecy, and Jump gate evo do. Though from what i've been reading besides being in space with ships each one will be nothing like the other. (just hoping Jump gate isn't going to be WOW in space.) The only reason we won't ever beat WoW is because WoW appeals to the stupid and simple minded, pleases the whiny base instead of saying "Shut up, this is how we are gonna do it" and sells out to big corporations for advertisement. Eve isn't a Niche game, I consider it a game with standards.
Towelieban Minmatar D00M.	Posted - 2009.05.10 16:37:00 - [46] Originally by: ShadowMaiden 300k for EvE, 8 million for WoW. and someone in this thread said EvE isn't a niche game? ...there was me thinking that MMO players had no understanding of irony. in your view all other mmo's are niche then since the one getting closest is like 1/8th of the size that wow is.
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.10 18:06:00 - [47] Originally by: Bestofworst Originally by: SpaceSquirrels Might check back to WAR...played for a few months, but the game play is so simplistic....button mash, and have a good healer. Which is to bad cause DAOC pvp was the best hands down....minus of course the outta control CC. EVE is pretty niche considering how un user friendly it is, and the player base also adds to the unfriendliness. We live in the console age these days where people want insta and easy. So EVE while a good game will never take down wow, and most likely hover around the same sub numbers. And we'll have to see how Black Prophecy, and Jump gate evo do. Though from what i've been reading besides being in space with ships each one will be nothing like the other. (just hoping Jump gate isn't going to be WOW in space.) The only reason we won't ever beat WoW is because WoW appeals to the stupid and simple minded, pleases the whiny base instead of saying "Shut up, this is how we are gonna do it" and sells out to big corporations for advertisement. Eve isn't a Niche game, I consider it a game with standards. Forgot there are "fan boi's" in eve too. Sigh...just can't escape them no matter where you go. And wow that was hands down the most elitist comment I've heard all month. How is it up there on that pedestal? Feel good to look down on others?.... And lol to that sellout comment. Lets see here CCP sells t-shirts, over priced models, mugs, key chains, in game money, "Fan fests" uh the list goes on. I'm not knocking them they're a business it's what they do for a living. And EVE is the very definition of a "niche game" considering nearly all MMO's are fantasy based right now. People seem to think "niche" is a dirty word.... it's not. Now proceed to pull your fanboi heads from your asses. _________________________ I disagree...
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.05.10 18:28:00 - [48] Edited by: MotherMoon on 10/05/2009 18:29:22 Originally by: ShadowMaiden 300k for EvE, 8 million for WoW. and someone in this thread said EvE isn't a niche game? ...there was me thinking that MMO players had no understanding of irony. That puts eve in 2nd place for western mmorpgs mind you. 4th place overall. It's not niche anymore. everquest was niche, with 30,000 subs when wow came out, it was the bggest mmorpg at the time. Damn kids.
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2009.05.10 18:48:00 - [49] Originally by: Bestofworst I just spent this afternoon playing with the Lord of the rings Online trial. I can say I really have lost hope for all others MMOs. Leaving Eve to play any other MMO just leaves a terrible taste in my mouth that there isn't something going right. Terrible graphics, interface is somehow worse, absolutely no players around me and leveling system is a pointless grind. Eve is THE Massively Multiplayer Online Game. Call me a fanboy but I had a taste of Eve Online and 3 months in now all I can say is I still have a hunger for more in Eve. The fact is new MMO's just aren't cutting it anymore. Recently, a very old 2D game, Mir3 has re-launched. Hundreds are re joining, leaving newer MMO's because although the gfx are antiquated and there's no fancy bells or whistles, simply because it's a bloody good game. Please refrain from political commentary in your signature. Navigator
Alignak Darkstar	Posted - 2009.05.10 19:45:00 - [50] Edited by: Alignak Darkstar on 10/05/2009 19:48:08 Originally by: ShadowMaiden 300k for EvE, 8 million for WoW. and someone in this thread said EvE isn't a niche game? ...there was me thinking that MMO players had no understanding of irony. World Of Warcraft has 11.5 million active subs. How many are alts who the hell knows. It's a fun game and nothing wrong with it I'm not going to sit here and think playing Eve somehow makes me smarter or special than others that's stupid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft All I know is after playing EVE for 4 years I'd guess at least half the active players are alts. So I'll be generous and say Eve has 200k people and for some reason you very rarely see more than 50.000 on server at one time. Usually it's around 20-40k 15 of those accounts I know are alts and people I know and 2 other guys multi boxing 3+ accounts each Mike and Harv you addicted dumbasses! :)
Evthron Macyntire	Posted - 2009.05.10 20:01:00 - [51] Society is used to being coddled. That is why EvE will remain a niche market, CCP doesn't hold your hand and wipe your ass for you. ------------------------------ Sigs like this.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.05.10 20:12:00 - [52] Originally by: Alignak Darkstar All I know is after playing EVE for 4 years I'd guess at least half the active players are alts. So I'll be generous and say Eve has 200k people and for some reason you very rarely see more than 50.000 on server at one time. The reasons you're looking for are "timezones" and "having a life". Also, if that many were alts, we really should se more people online — if you're around to have one character logged in, you're arround to have several logged in. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Bestofworst Gallente Double Eagle Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.10 21:07:00 - [53] Originally by: SpaceSquirrels Originally by: Bestofworst Originally by: SpaceSquirrels Might check back to WAR...played for a few months, but the game play is so simplistic....button mash, and have a good healer. Which is to bad cause DAOC pvp was the best hands down....minus of course the outta control CC. EVE is pretty niche considering how un user friendly it is, and the player base also adds to the unfriendliness. We live in the console age these days where people want insta and easy. So EVE while a good game will never take down wow, and most likely hover around the same sub numbers. And we'll have to see how Black Prophecy, and Jump gate evo do. Though from what i've been reading besides being in space with ships each one will be nothing like the other. (just hoping Jump gate isn't going to be WOW in space.) The only reason we won't ever beat WoW is because WoW appeals to the stupid and simple minded, pleases the whiny base instead of saying "Shut up, this is how we are gonna do it" and sells out to big corporations for advertisement. Eve isn't a Niche game, I consider it a game with standards. Forgot there are "fan boi's" in eve too. Sigh...just can't escape them no matter where you go. And wow that was hands down the most elitist comment I've heard all month. How is it up there on that pedestal? Feel good to look down on others?.... And lol to that sellout comment. Lets see here CCP sells t-shirts, over priced models, mugs, key chains, in game money, "Fan fests" uh the list goes on. I'm not knocking them they're a business it's what they do for a living. And EVE is the very definition of a "niche game" considering nearly all MMO's are fantasy based right now. People seem to think "niche" is a dirty word.... it's not. Now proceed to pull your fanboi heads from your asses. I've played WoW for 4 years, and I've played Star Wars Galaxies, Guild Wars, Auto Assault even before that. I've done the 60 raids, I've done the 70 raids, I've done the 80 raids right up before I quit the game. And while I had great respect before with Blizzard, it just isn't like it was when I left. I still give credit where credit is due, I still enjoy the Machinima movies from WoW, I still watch Zalgradis PvP from time to time and go on the forums (beit offtopic forums). If you want to describe my position, it's most likely like this. Other than that, sure call me a fanboi, I play a game I actually enjoy, no I'm not gonna get in an argument in real life over it, because I get enough Eve on these forums and ingame. Please don't think that you are not on a pedestal, obviously thinking you being above everyone else because you arn't a fanboi is just silly, we obviously both play the game, and if you don't, why are you here arguing with me?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.10 21:26:00 - [54] Originally by: ShadowMaiden 300k for EvE, 8 million for WoW. and someone in this thread said EvE isn't a niche game? ...there was me thinking that MMO players had no understanding of irony. Examples of "non niche" MMOs include?
Boris Varshavsky	Posted - 2009.05.10 21:36:00 - [55] Originally by: Armoured C next comming up lotrO , WOW, KOTOR, star trek AND JGE to hit the chopping block. To tell you the truth, I do not think that any game will surpass the almost 12 million subscribers that WoW has, it is not rationally possible for EvE, a game with less then 1/2 a million subs, to go to 12 million. Even though I dislike* every single WoW player out there and have RL proof that it rots your brain. *my younger brothers play WoW, but only because i was such a great indirect 'hero' to them that they just got hooked. Trying hard to get them off of it.
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.10 21:40:00 - [56] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: ShadowMaiden 300k for EvE, 8 million for WoW. and someone in this thread said EvE isn't a niche game? ...there was me thinking that MMO players had no understanding of irony. Examples of "non niche" MMOs include? WAR, WOW, AOC, LOTRO, DAOC, EQ1,2 UO, Shadwobane, AO, Guild wars, D&D. Could argue SWG. Also I will agree arguing is pointless however I will say this just because you play a game doesnt make you a fanboi.... means you play the game. The fact that you get defensive, cannot see reason. Makes you a fanboi. Like a guy arguing that a pinto was a good car...just as long as you didnt get rear ended.... _________________________ I disagree...
Bestofworst Gallente Double Eagle Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.10 21:48:00 - [57] Originally by: SpaceSquirrels Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: ShadowMaiden 300k for EvE, 8 million for WoW. and someone in this thread said EvE isn't a niche game? ...there was me thinking that MMO players had no understanding of irony. Examples of "non niche" MMOs include? WAR, WOW, AOC, LOTRO, DAOC, EQ1,2 UO, Shadwobane, AO, Guild wars, D&D. Could argue SWG. Also I will agree arguing is pointless however I will say this just because you play a game doesnt make you a fanboi.... means you play the game. The fact that you get defensive, cannot see reason. Makes you a fanboi. Like a guy arguing that a pinto was a good car...just as long as you didnt get rear ended.... Well all I was trying to say was I've done WoW, and while that was fun, it got old real fast. Wrong foot stepping and such, shake hands?
Pika Eadesso Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.05.10 21:56:00 - [58] It's always amazing watching threads like this. I should take bets on how long it takes people to start claiming WoW is the Anti-Christ or some other such bull. I actually have a WAR sub active at the moment and while it's better than it was at launch it's still a bit iffy at times. They really do need to fix side balance though (Almost every server is still Destro Heavy, it gets boring winning all the time)otherwise they'll bleed subs something horrible. Grats to CCP! Keep it up, and give me walking in stations already! :)
Feilamya Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.10 22:11:00 - [59] Well-deserved, CCP! And well-deserved, EA/Mythic! Warhammer Online was made by the company that destroyed DAoC, boasted about being the company that made DAoC, and released a new MMO that was so inferior to DAoC in every aspect that you wonder if they had ever seen DAoC. Apparently, the WAR hype is over, and another short-lived crap MMO bites the dust. Good riddance, and hopefully Mythic Entertainment go down with it. Quote: Hopefully in the coming years this will lead to more dev teams thinking outside the box and focusing on long term rather than short term cash grabs. Modern "MMOs" are designed for short term cash grabs. Think of them as single-player games for which players pay for a subscription in addition to the price of the game box. Then they play the game for as long as they would play a single-player game, until they have done all the quests, and it's time to buy a new game.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.10 22:14:00 - [60] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Alignak Darkstar All I know is after playing EVE for 4 years I'd guess at least half the active players are alts. So I'll be generous and say Eve has 200k people and for some reason you very rarely see more than 50.000 on server at one time. The reasons you're looking for are "timezones" and "having a life". Also, if that many were alts, we really should se more people online ù if you're around to have one character logged in, you're arround to have several logged in. I don't always have both logged in at the same time. My main and my alt have 2 very different agenda's.
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.10 22:41:00 - [61] ^^^^ Scammer alt!!! _________________________ I disagree...
Professor Wilkins Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.11 00:40:00 - [62] I played WOW, SWG, EQ2, GW so on and so on, but for some reason I keep coming back to EVE. I wonder why?
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.05.11 01:29:00 - [63] I agree that most traditional (Everquest-style may be a better term?) MMOs aren't really MMOs. To me, they feel like a single-player MMO with multiplayer support. The core game design hasn't really changed much from something like Diablo. The fact that everyone plays through the same story, does the same quests, kills the same respawning bosses and the like point to the similarity to single-player games. To me this is more an issue than how many players are on a server, though that is important also. I feel that actual single-player RPGs are much more immersive. If I want to play an MMO, I want one that feels like a virtual world where the players actually affect things instead of a virtual theme-park.
Sythyss Paradigm Council	Posted - 2009.05.11 04:53:00 - [64] Originally by: SpaceSquirrels Originally by: Malcanis Examples of "non niche" MMOs include? WAR, WOW, AOC, LOTRO, DAOC, EQ1,2 UO, Shadwobane, AO, Guild wars, D&D. Could argue SWG... Guys, he's right. You have to realize eve being a niche game means it's unique and holds a distinct section of the market, which it does. All of these other games listed are just like every other mmo out there, as has been mentioned. Eve is certainly a unique game, which is why we all love it =].
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.05.11 05:09:00 - [65] This makes me happy as it is a huge victory for small, upstart video game companies. CCP did not have some huge built-in fan base like WoW or Warhammer or LOTRO or made other games to fall back on for cash if their game starts to fail. EVE-Online is completely original (or as close as you can in today's world) and started from nothing. Goes to show you that working hard and creating something truly fun and engaging like EVE is better in the long run than "Oh hey guiyz, super mario is p. popular, let's make a super mario mmorpg!" Cheers CCP. Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
Kryss'tal	Posted - 2009.05.11 05:26:00 - [66] EVE is really the only good sci-fi MMO on the market. As soon as a couple of other good competitors hit the market, then subscriber numbers will most likely diminish a bit. The new star wars game will pull a few away, and the star trek game, if it's ever released, is sure to pull a few more away. I personally have three alts in this game and I'm not even what you would call a hardcore player. In fact, most of the people that I know in game have at least two characters, and some have 4+ paying accounts. Metagaming is the core of EVE, therefore it lends itself to a heavy alt community. What I'm getting at here, is that unique subscribers in EVE is most likely a lot closer to Warhammer than you think. Oh, and EVE still is a niche game. I'm the only person at my job who plays EVE, the other 30 coworkers I have are all a mixture of WoW, WAR, AoC, two FF players and a guy who still clings relentlessly to SWG.
Laeris Evanstar Amarr Petals of Derketo	Posted - 2009.05.11 06:29:00 - [67] Wow, 300k subs! That's like 250,000 more than Age of Conan! snicker "Not your typical Roleplayer"
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.11 14:09:00 - [68] Originally by: Laeris Evanstar Wow, 300k subs! That's like 250,000 more than Age of Conan! snicker To bad really. The graphics and first 20 levels were so awesome in that game. _________________________ I disagree...
Pyrostasis Caldari Rage Quit Inc	Posted - 2009.05.11 23:37:00 - [69] Originally by: SpaceSquirrels Originally by: Laeris Evanstar Wow, 300k subs! That's like 250,000 more than Age of Conan! snicker To bad really. The graphics and first 20 levels were so awesome in that game. I enjoyed AoC till about 50, then you ran out of quests, and it was pretty much grind kashetta all day.
Slave 2739FKZ	Posted - 2009.05.12 00:13:00 - [70] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 09/05/2009 17:19:23 300,000 subscribers for eve in real terms of actual individual people is probably more like 80,000 subscribers. Internetz numberz, you make them out of your ass. I doubt even the average player has 2 accounts. 250k mains and 50k secondary mains are more realistic probably (200-100 at most), given the average age of game accounts published some time ago.
CrestoftheStars Caldari Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2009.05.12 01:58:00 - [71] warhammer is dying, have been for a long time, so wouldn't be that proud :) ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Baron Aethon Ostium Orci	Posted - 2009.05.12 04:13:00 - [72] Eve is a niche game because it requires people to work hard to accomplish something. You cannot sit back and log into eve every Saturday and expect to get far in this game. Conversely you can log into wow or lotro once a week and be relatively happy with the results. You call it simple, Blizzard calls is casual gaming. And Casual gaming sells subscriptions. Eve has very little content for the casual player. Also, I have five accounts, people like me drive the average account per person up.
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Furies	Posted - 2009.05.12 04:19:00 - [73] Well warhammer does epically fail in o so many ways. I downloaded the demo and had it uninstalled the next day cuz I downloaded it late one night but needless to say I tried it and thought it sucked horribly therefore I uninstalled it. It's just like every other friggin game out there that involves orc's, dwarves and the like.
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Furies	Posted - 2009.05.12 04:20:00 - [74] Originally by: Pyrostasis Originally by: SpaceSquirrels Originally by: Laeris Evanstar Wow, 300k subs! That's like 250,000 more than Age of Conan! snicker To bad really. The graphics and first 20 levels were so awesome in that game. I enjoyed AoC till about 50, then you ran out of quests, and it was pretty much grind kashetta all day. AOC will not be around too much longer, Tabula Rasa looked promising but that went bye bye too, Warhammer gonna be next I would think.
Pyrostasis Caldari Rage Quit Inc	Posted - 2009.05.12 04:54:00 - [75] Maybe it just didnt appeal to me, but I never saw Tabula Rasa as going to be worth anything much. I remember playing beta for it and being EXTREMELY disappointed. I was like, how the hell does the maker of UO follow it up with THIS! I think AoC will definitely be in trouble if the next patch doesnt see a good influx of new players. As for WAR, I dunno... I have a feeling they are going to continue to hemorrhage players unless they can find a way to completely revamp the game, and I mean bigger than the new frontiers revamp in old school DAOC. Ill be reactivating WAR for nostalgia sake when they reimplement Darkness Falls... but I doubt Ill play for longer than a week after that.
XenoPagan	Posted - 2009.05.12 07:17:00 - [76] Makes me a bit sad- I actually liked WAR quite a lot, but it lost its flare very quickly. Now tried Age of Conan again with my friends, just to see have they improved, and yeah, WAR is still better than AOC. But I'm glad for CCP, lets hope trend continues (not THAT fast tho)
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.05.12 10:20:00 - [77] Quote: I just find it rather refreshing that what started as a small development team with a small following has grow into a force to be reckoned with. Hopefully in the coming years this will lead to more dev teams thinking outside the box and focusing on long term rather than short term cash grabs. Well, EvE born small but with some good foundations. After playing WH since preorder day I can say WH is completely, absolutely CRAP compared to EvE. The 800k+ initial player base dove down to < 275k players when I quit that thing in Jan. Quote: This is easily explained with one word. Paul Barnett Isn't that 2 words? While being an EXCELLENT podcast comedian, the guy as game designer is so bad that does not deserve a two words name. Quote: I swear after every patch it would lag worse and worse to the point where I was still framing at 40+ battle scenes. And good luck taking a major city without the whole server crashing, in fact that actually turned into a tactic for defenders. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sounds like EVE to me You have no idea how bad it is. While EvE's FW is really trying hard to suck as much, Warhammer is unrivalled at lag PLUS ret_arded "in your face" huge game destroying bugs lasting for months and months. If you know WoW, imagine being a rogue with a bug that makes him strongly highligthed when he stealths. WUT? Yeah nonsense but in WH it's like that. Now, imagine that blatant bug being reported both by beta testers (I was one) and regular players, for months, and it not being fixed. Then one day, months down, ROBOANT patch notes say it's fixed. You start the game, and helloooo the bug is still here. More months and months and another patch notes states: "we found out that in rare cases (99%) the bug was still out, we really fixed it this time". Guess what? Now the guy does not highlight any more. He creates a moving crater on the ground though.... This is the "Mythic way". Quote: I just spent this afternoon playing with the Lord of the rings Online trial. I can say I really have lost hope for all others MMOs. Leaving Eve to play any other MMO just leaves a terrible taste in my mouth that there isn't something going right. Terrible graphics, interface is somehow worse, absolutely no players around me and leveling system is a pointless grind The bad news is that LOTRO is one of the best MMOs out there. That is, the others are even worse. All a stupid mild theme park for idiots, where whatever you do is guided, pampered, insured. You are a epicced nobody doing no effect anywhere. Quote: It's not, it's comparing subscriber numbers. Warhammer's not a bad game, it's got a different design philosophy than the typical MMO (though obviously derivative of Dark Age of Camelot, save dev and all). No, it's a TERRIBLE game, because it promotes RvR like DAoC (that is, massive Realm vs Realm epic battles) but fails at managing those epic battles without the servers crashing (in the past) and anyone getting minutes of lag plus 70% of the players become invisible and so on. Failing at its reason to exist imho is pretty sad. Quote: And it only took 6 years Yeah, AoC and Warhammer were so quicker at getting where.... ehm.... they are now.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.05.12 10:22:00 - [78] Quote: I've played WoW for 4 years, and I've played Star Wars Galaxies, Guild Wars, Auto Assault even before that. I've done the 60 raids, I've done the 70 raids, I've done the 80 raids right up before I quit the game. And while I had great respect before with Blizzard, it just isn't like it was when I left. I still give credit where credit is due, I still enjoy the Machinima movies from WoW, I still watch Zalgradis PvP from time to time and go on the forums (beit offtopic forums). The first WoW, the one designed by Blizzard, was an amazing and earthshaking product. Then the former EQ designers came, and made it bad (and elitist raiding and against hybrids and so on (PHEAR MY WARRIORZ!). Finally they gave up on the pocket gods and went the opposite ways making it totally a YAWN theme park. Playing since 2005, quit it the day I could tank a level 76 instance in a level 70 feral druid I was not even playing since weeks. It got _THAT_ dumbed down. Quote: I think AoC will definitely be in trouble if the next patch doesnt see a good influx of new players. The sad part is that AoC got bugfixed and polished a lot after the great exodus. But players tend to resent being scammed first, so they did not return back.
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. I.C.C Industrial Drive Yards	Posted - 2009.05.12 10:34:00 - [79] Originally by: Guttripper In my opinion, it seems the latest batch of games attempt to have "everything" all at once. There is no gradual building stages upon a concrete foundation - the skysc**r is being built on swampy lands. Whereas older games like EverQuest, and to an extent, my nearly three years of EVE, were a gradual release of expansion materials for the game. Earlier this week, we celebrated EVE being six years old. If everything involved with the game today, and potential future materials were released all at once six years ago, then would the game have survived, or crashed and burned like the latest batch of games? All you have to do is look at the Chinese launch to see that a gradual development is best. Serenity had all the features that TQ did up to that point, two or three years ago, it and it was a mess. POSes were scattered across 0.0 with sovereignty locked up when all anybody could fly were frigs, and maybe a few cruisers. So the 0.0 landscape became static for a long time since no one could take down a POS once it was up. Then the people who rushed into Dreads had a field day since most of the rest of the populace was just getting into BCs and BSes. So, yeah, slow and steady seems to be a much better way to update a MMOG than trying to do it all at once. Originally by:** Kazuma Saruwatari F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said Originally by: Chribba Go F'nog! You're a hero! Not a Zero! /me bows
Galan Undris	Posted - 2009.05.12 10:39:00 - [80] Edited by: Galan Undris on 12/05/2009 10:40:25 Looks pretty grim for everything that isn't WoW nowadays. (edit: or EVE ;) ) I actually liked Tabula Rasa for some reason. I know it was very WoW-ish in appearance, but it felt more different than any of the others. Very immediate and good action-feel to it, unlike all the other WoW-clones. My favourite instant-gratification MMO, but not something for the long haul. Suprised they would fall harder than the others.
Cal V	Posted - 2009.05.12 11:33:00 - [81] Originally by: E Vile NO other MMO has EVE's population as you see on the server because EVE is the only that has everyone in 1 Universe. Not split down into copies. That is definetly a plus. As an on and off player what I like is: The community. When you go to the help channels and ask a question it will usually be answered. The complexity. Itś not a simple hack and slash you can do many things. But with all of that the brutality of EvE makes it less than appealing for some, for me. Losing ships and having to rebuild is frustrating some game mechanics I don;t agree with but that¦s part of the game. What I am waiting for is for Blizzards next MMO. With the merger or partnership of Blizzard/Activision I am hoping for MechWarrior Online. I¦m hoping for a cross between EvE and WoW. All the complexity but less.... harsh.
Anyura	Posted - 2009.05.12 12:46:00 - [82] It's kind of a shame really - I love the Warhammer universe and the storylines behind it and the MMO should have been terrific. Instead the mechanics felt like a lame WoW clone with horrible balancing issues (Bright Wizards, I'm looking at you!). In terms of sci-fi MMOs, Tabula Rasa will always hold a soft spot in my heart. It had interesting mechanics, a refreshing new setting away from mailbox-dancing elfs and deserved to go much further than it did. =/
Darwin Duck Quest for the holy Grail Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.12 13:00:00 - [83] Not surprised, WOW clones are released on a monthly basis. Why do these devs think people will leave the original with almost 10 years of development, for their fresh out of the oven wow copy with the same ****, new wrapping?
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2009.05.12 13:06:00 - [84] EVE is dying etc Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.05.12 13:47:00 - [85] Originally by: Rashmika Clavain EVE is dying etc QFT if you buy eve in a box from my game store i will give you isk (GAME , parkgate rotherham)
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.05.12 13:50:00 - [86] TBH I'm not surprised ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 14:43:00 - [87] There have been so many "cookie cutter" MMO's that have come out. Although I'll give warhammer some credit. It did come out with a couple of good idea's. PQ's, Join anywhere groups, and the funny "roll" loot system. However after that it was button mash-tastic. Hopefully the up and comers like Black prophecy, and Jump Gate evo which are twitch based will feel different. Been waiting for an MMO to get twitched based gaming right, and use it to add depth. I'm guessing the star trek, Star Gate starwars (anyone see a trend here) MMO's aren't going to do a damn thing original or interesting aside from use those franchised names to sell the product. _________________________ I disagree...
ry ry	Posted - 2009.05.12 15:08:00 - [88] World of Warcraft has the entire fantasy MMO market pretty much cornered, this is probably why the 40k mmo is so far off. But nothing lasts forever, we've all done the same old quests dozens of times already and it's looking creaky as ****. i'm not convinced Blizz would generate enough interest releasing a eve-style graphical update for WoW so it's basically going to come down to milking their cash cow for as long as possible before WoW either dies or is tugged to make way for WoW2, and in that dead time the next big fantasy MMO would come along.
Blake Shepperd Gallente SEED Project	Posted - 2009.05.12 15:43:00 - [89] I can't believe people still play SWG. Last time I was on the word GHOST TOWNS come to mind. At release it had something but as the numbers dropped it just did not seem like a world. It was like deserted space. Eve is so much more.
Caius Sivaris Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2009.05.12 15:58:00 - [90] Originally by: Bestofworst Leaving Eve to play any other MMO just leaves a terrible taste in my mouth that there isn't something going right. Terrible graphics, interface is somehow worse, This is downright frightening. They have something worse than corp UI, ghosts on overview and randomly relocating windows?
Neamus	Posted - 2009.05.12 16:52:00 - [91] Big hugs for EvE! I've had my fingers burned with AoC and WAR, a shame because I had really high hopes for AoC. EvE just keeps me coming back over and over, ever since I first started playing back in 2003. There's just nothing out there to beat it. Having everyone together in the same environment is just epic. Saying that though, I've not seen a single mention here of EQ2. I've reprised an old character there, just for a change of pace from time to time, and I have to say that out of all the fantasy themed MMO's, imo EQ2 is still the best. I never really liked the cartoony feel of WoW.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.05.12 16:57:00 - [92] Originally by: Abye DaoC, isn't that the MMO where every 1337 PVPer had a Buffbot account ? Even funnier was that the support classes could be specced in a way that they were mostly only good for buffing spells and lousy healing. Noooo, the game wasn't designed at all with people having multiple accounts in mind at all Jup, all the cool kids had a buffbot and we didn't invite you to our groups. 2 buffbots per 8 man was enough. And smacking this is silly as Eve is far worse with the main to alt ratio in the pvp playgrounds (lowsec/0.0). Also your comment on support classes being specced as buffbots only is pure gibbirish or may have been true for you and led you quiting the game for being unable to find a group. Pure healing spec didnt work in pvp because of its cast cost versus effectiveness, also guard aggro played a big role in that, plus having yellow buffs helped in winning the fight you were loosing (were as buffbots had all reds). Besides they launched buffbotless servers which were a huge success. DAOC was and is one if not the best teamplay MMO's on the market (Eve certainly has the potential but the blob issue versus lost cost will never have it reach the same level). Eve it's strenght lays in it being the only pure MMO on the market with 300k subs on a single server, where as others are simply multiplayer games (you wrecked your rep, meh who cares, reroll on another server). - - - Originally by: CCP Prism X I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 17:02:00 - [93] ^^^ Loved Daoc pvp...minus the crowd control spam. Think it might have been the only pvp where I got a rush. _________________________ I disagree...
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 17:04:00 - [94] Originally by: Caius Sivaris Originally by: Bestofworst Leaving Eve to play any other MMO just leaves a terrible taste in my mouth that there isn't something going right. Terrible graphics, interface is somehow worse, This is downright frightening. They have something worse than corp UI, ghosts on overview and randomly relocating windows? They do have worse! It's horrible I tell you! They have, dare I say....Customizable UI's! BTW that terrible taste in your mouth is just the glue you were sucking on earlier. Now I gotta decide if I should put in a /sarcasm or not.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.05.12 17:14:00 - [95] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 10/05/2009 18:29:22 Originally by: ShadowMaiden 300k for EvE, 8 million for WoW. and someone in this thread said EvE isn't a niche game? ...there was me thinking that MMO players had no understanding of irony. That puts eve in 2nd place for western mmorpgs mind you. 4th place overall. It's not niche anymore. everquest was niche, with 30,000 subs when wow came out, it was the bggest mmorpg at the time. Damn kids. Right... Get your numbers straight before you even call anyone a kid, someone might actually be old enough to remember the exact numbers. You make it sound like first there was everquest then there was wow. Damn wow kids. It was more like UO -> EQ -> DAOC -> WOW/EQ2, DAOC being a pvp version of EQ sorta how WOW stole all the good stuff from their predecessors and got things right (with the extend to grinding that is). Old time UO players will say that DAOC was a dumbed down version of UO pvp with EQ grinding mechanics. Also EQ was way over the 30k you listed when WOW released with DAOC around 250k subs (DAOC lost about 150k to wow the first year which basicly killed the game because there wasnt a group that hadnt lost some of it's keyplayers which led to more players quiting and them getting into a washer effect. DAOC up to that point had heaps and heaps of 4+ years players, basicly sorta how eve is now. If someone produces an eve like game that removes your personal top 10 issues eve would just suffer as hard as DAOC did in the day and hit that same washer. Because that is basicly what happened to DAOC. Also yes it's great news EVE now has 300k subs but tbh it's bad news because it means they only sold about 50k boxes through the Atari deal (or at least got 50k subs out of the box sales with war numbers that would mean 150k boxes sold with aoc numbers that would mean having like 2 millions boxes sold... prolly will be around 70kish). Also doesn't have lotr a lot more subs then eve?
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.05.12 17:22:00 - [96] Originally by: SpaceSquirrels ^^^ Loved Daoc pvp...minus the crowd control spam. Think it might have been the only pvp where I got a rush. The post wow era really woke em up and issues like that were fixed by greatly reducing those timers. All in all it's a really solid game last I checked (closed my sub about 9 months ago as I still had it running without actually playing lol, havent6 played for over 2 years), they really did a great job of fixing all the main issues (TOA, CC, dps balancing, radar, spring to mind) but waaaaaay too late. - - - Originally by: CCP Prism X I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.05.12 17:31:00 - [97] Originally by: Vaal Erit CCP did not have some huge built-in fan base like WoW or Warhammer or LOTRO or made other games to fall back on for cash if their game starts to fail. EVE-Online is completely original (or as close as you can in today's world) and started from nothing. Actually that's not completly true; Eve very much recreated the Elite feel to the point this was a frequently asked question. CCP admitted they based EVE on Elite (or at least were heavily influenced). Elite = the LOTR for sci-fi gamers. Similar to someone launching a MOO based MMO. Anyways... it's not like Eve is safe from competition, E&B (wow in space) was a major hit in the beginning but their team couldnt keep up content wise to keep their subs interested. - - - Originally by: CCP Prism X I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
Ferdio Ricotez Gallente Killer Carebears United Interstellar Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.12 17:33:00 - [98] Edited by: Ferdio Ricotez on 12/05/2009 17:34:03 Originally by: Akita T The only question is, how many of those "Apocrypha box" subscribers will REMAIN subscribers 3 months from now ? Lifts up his hand Actually, I ordered my first EVE time code card from my local games store today. I absolutely dig this game, and I have no clue as to why so many people consider it inpenetrable... All you need is some patience to get your skills up to reasonable levels, and from there it's fun whilst you'll get to use new stuff every now and then, when more advanced skill training finishes. ----- Gallente flying Minmatar
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 17:40:00 - [99] Originally by: DrAtomic The post wow era really woke em up and issues like that were fixed by greatly reducing those timers. All in all it's a really solid game last I checked (closed my sub about 9 months ago as I still had it running without actually playing lol, havent6 played for over 2 years), they really did a great job of fixing all the main issues (TOA, CC, dps balancing, radar, spring to mind) but waaaaaay too late. Did they even have a population still 9 months ago? Don't get me wrong, I was a rabid fan of 5 years (came in about a month after shrouded isles) until my alliance leader blew up in my face over one of the dumbest things in the history of gaming. But the last time I checked there were maybe 60 in the frontiers and when you take account of bots then your not talking very many people. Maybe 2 fg's and 3 solo's with the rest being bridge campers. I was a molvik player myself and oh did I have some good times there. It was simply amazing that after 5 years you could still stick an assassin in front of a archer because people will just run straight forward.
Litakn	Posted - 2009.05.12 18:15:00 - [100] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 09/05/2009 17:19:23 Yeah but you have to remember Eve is a metagame. Alt for this alt for that. Whereas most other games just need a single account to be successful and on a level playing field. 300,000 subscribers for eve in real terms of actual individual people is probably more like 80,000 subscribers. All MMOs have this type of subscription slant, not just EVE. When I as big into EverQuest almost everyone had 2 or 3 accounts, I personally owned 2 and had access to another 2. And I knew a guy "Sam" who had 24 accounts...
Darwin Duck Quest for the holy Grail Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.12 18:28:00 - [101] Originally by: Blake Shepperd I can't believe people still play SWG. Last time I was on the word GHOST TOWNS come to mind. At release it had something but as the numbers dropped it just did not seem like a world. It was like deserted space. Eve is so much more. Actually, Bria, Starsider and a few other servers are packed now. SOE has offered free character transfers from the low populated servers to a high pop of your choice. But it's quite laggy now on the populated servers. Guess they will shut down the low populated servs soon and redeploy the freed up hardware for the other server clusters. But the game is still quite boring though.
Murashu Agony's End	Posted - 2009.05.12 20:05:00 - [102] Originally by: shwarzkauph I awaiting the arrival of Star Wars The old Republic to get released. I want to be excited about Star Wars but I just don't see it being a hit for those of us who love PvP. Since being let down by AoC & WAR (both designed to encourage lots of PvP) I am leary about any new game coming out. _______ Murashu Agony's End
Arleonenis Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.12 20:36:00 - [103] Aye not many games there that have lasting appeal. Most recently released mmo and semi-mmo are just betas or in some cases even alphas. AoC here comes to mind when it was released it was alpha state practically, now after everything patched up its practically beta. Crafting there is crap, lack of content after 60s is so aparent that you start to wonder what are you doing here, raiding hmmm whats the point to it really if gear isn't that important and you don't know what to do with it in even when you get it... WAR, well beta clone of WoW with code that was practically wroten on knee in some bar... so many memory leaks and bugs is only possible when you try hard to implement them or you don't know what you are doing (or are pushed by timeframe so badly that you just can't create anything cohesive and double check your work, most likely case)... What else here? Star Trek Online, i stoped looking at it when it was announced space combat will be in 2D and lots of features was turned off Star Wars KOTOR like... well when i noticed they going in cartoonish look... well "WoW clone" came to my mind immediately and I felt something unpleasent in my mouth, if they want to clone something and remake it it is most likely worst than original and i didn't liked original WoW in first case, not my style of game... So whats left? EVE only ofcorse untill they make something better though i don't have high hopes for that;) (sorry for my english it got quite rusted since last time I used it)
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 20:45:00 - [104] There have been so many "cookie cutter" MMO's that have come out. Although I'll give warhammer some credit. It did come out with a couple of good idea's. PQ's, Join anywhere groups, and the funny "roll" loot system. However after that it was button mash-tastic. Hopefully the up and comers like Black prophecy, and Jump Gate evo which are twitch based will feel different. Been waiting for an MMO to get twitched based gaming right, and use it to add depth....or make better use of players actual skill in that department. I'm guessing the star trek, Star Gate starwars (anyone see a trend here) MMO's aren't going to do a damn thing original or interesting aside from use those franchised names to sell the product. _________________________ I disagree...
Bestofworst Gallente Double Eagle Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.12 20:50:00 - [105] A two side conflict with no penalty for switching will always kill PvP games. FW is great in that if you Plex enough for one faction, to switch sides you'll have to grind faction standing, so you'll be sure to play with the side you want to stick with, and still allows players to slowly but eventually make up for any bad choices. ---- <Insert Wit>
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 20:55:00 - [106] Originally by: SpaceSquirrels There have been so many "cookie cutter" MMO's that have come out. Although I'll give warhammer some credit. It did come out with a couple of good idea's. PQ's, Join anywhere groups, and the funny "roll" loot system. However after that it was button mash-tastic. I hated that loot system! Jesus, bust your ass getting each stage done and getting to the end boss and you start off ranking first, but after the roll you end up in 5th and some guy who stepped in and swung on the boss 3 times gets first.
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 21:01:00 - [107] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: SpaceSquirrels There have been so many "cookie cutter" MMO's that have come out. Although I'll give warhammer some credit. It did come out with a couple of good idea's. PQ's, Join anywhere groups, and the funny "roll" loot system. However after that it was button mash-tastic. I hated that loot system! Jesus, bust your ass getting each stage done and getting to the end boss and you start off ranking first, but after the roll you end up in 5th and some guy who stepped in and swung on the boss 3 times gets first. Lol that was BS, but on the rare occasion it did work it was fun, and different. So props for originality...just poor implementation. _________________________ I disagree...
Bestofworst Gallente Double Eagle Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.12 21:04:00 - [108] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: SpaceSquirrels There have been so many "cookie cutter" MMO's that have come out. Although I'll give warhammer some credit. It did come out with a couple of good idea's. PQ's, Join anywhere groups, and the funny "roll" loot system. However after that it was button mash-tastic. I hated that loot system! Jesus, bust your ass getting each stage done and getting to the end boss and you start off ranking first, but after the roll you end up in 5th and some guy who stepped in and swung on the boss 3 times gets first. That's why I liked being the Paladin co-class lead. I could swing my weight around to get people who deserve it gear and raid spots. ---- <Insert Wit>
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.12 21:07:00 - [109] Originally by: Bestofworst A two side conflict with no penalty for switching will always kill PvP games. FW is great in that if you Plex enough for one faction, to switch sides you'll have to grind faction standing, so you'll be sure to play with the side you want to stick with, and still allows players to slowly but eventually make up for any bad choices. That is why I like side-less games now. I saw it in DAOC the whole time, especially being a member of the red headed midgard. WAR was even worse and it didn't take long to see which server had an over abundance of order and which ones had the over abundance of chaos. Theres been only 2 games I've seen where the only sides out there are the ones you choose and that's eve and AOC and both have been more enjoyable for me. In fact I was kicking myself for overlooking AOC because I wanted WAR to be decent and I should have known better considering who was making it. But in the end it really doesn't take a genius to figure out that 2 sided games just do not last. Every body wants to win, and if they are not winning, they find a means to win and that includes switching sides until the battlefield is grossly lopsided. A lopsided battlefield makes it unfun for one side leading to more unsubs which then leads to a boring game for the other side due to a lack of targets and that leads to unsubs. *editors note: I left LOTRO out because I remember when I played it that it was a one sided game. Sure you had PvMP but it really wasn't that great.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.05.12 23:34:00 - [110] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Did they even have a population still 9 months ago? Don't get me wrong, I was a rabid fan of 5 years (came in about a month after shrouded isles) until my alliance leader blew up in my face over one of the dumbest things in the history of gaming. But the last time I checked there were maybe 60 in the frontiers and when you take account of bots then your not talking very many people. Maybe 2 fg's and 3 solo's with the rest being bridge campers. I was a molvik player myself and oh did I have some good times there. It was simply amazing that after 5 years you could still stick an assassin in front of a archer because people will just run straight forward. I've played Bors-Hibernia and stuck with it for about 5 years as well, never even got beyond level 6 or something on Albion or Midgard. What surprised me was how different Albion and Midgard were to Hibernia. In that sense DAOC sorta had 3 mmos in one. I expected to find the server completly dead (I'm european and was playing on the US servers) but just wanted to have one last stroll before closing my account for ever. There was about 100 peepz online and after a minute of 5 I started getting tells from friends who were working on alts. That was way more then I expected, I asked one of them for buffbot services (gave my buffbot away and couldnt remember the pass lol) and went for a solo stroll through the laby and frontier ending up with 14 kills for 2 deads. Was a nice way of closing out my account. One of my DAOC buddies msn-ed me saying that there are rumors floating about a DAOC relaunch with revamped frontier, UI and gfx (wouldnt surprise me if they steal stuff from wow and war that worked and get that in as well). - - - Originally by: CCP Prism X I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
Cal V	Posted - 2009.05.13 11:26:00 - [111] Originally by: DrAtomic Originally by: Micheal Dietrich One of my DAOC buddies msn-ed me saying that there are rumors floating about a DAOC relaunch with revamped frontier, UI and gfx (wouldnt surprise me if they steal stuff from wow and war that worked and get that in as well). It¦s dead Jim, let it go.
Phainex	Posted - 2009.05.13 23:03:00 - [112] Originally by: Cal V Originally by: Micheal Dietrich One of my DAOC buddies msn-ed me saying that there are rumors floating about a DAOC relaunch with revamped frontier, UI and gfx (wouldnt surprise me if they steal stuff from wow and war that worked and get that in as well). It¦s dead Jim, let it go. DAOC will never die! YOU LIE!
Varrakk Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.14 12:55:00 - [113] Im just wondering, since theres so many MMOs launched the last year. Right of the bat, they get massive subscribers and a playerbase drop months after. They making money or taking a loss? EVE started small and expanded, but the new games have to start pretty large scale to even be competable. So when does games like AOC/WAR/DF become profitable? 300k playerbase doesnt sound like much to me. Tho EVE is very different, since the average player plays much longer.
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2009.05.14 13:44:00 - [114] Originally by: Murashu Originally by: shwarzkauph I awaiting the arrival of Star Wars The old Republic to get released. I want to be excited about Star Wars but I just don't see it being a hit for those of us who love PvP. Since being let down by AoC & WAR (both designed to encourage lots of PvP) I am leary about any new game coming out. No player housing... no crafting... I think I'll pass. Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator
Phainex	Posted - 2009.05.19 16:46:00 - [115] Grats CCP keep up the good work
Vain Eldritch	Posted - 2009.05.20 14:04:00 - [116] Edited by: Vain Eldritch on 20/05/2009 14:04:51 Originally by: Malcanis I hope the new star wars MMO is good - a little competition will do EvE nothing but good. Hmm... looks like SW:TOR is such a very different game from Eve. It's shaping up to be another on-rails themepark like AoC. It is not a sandbox, there will be no player housing - I'm seeing it like AoC but with NPC followers, no gore and very little in T&A deparment. I can only speak for myself, and I am a very new Eve subscriber (GTC) but have played many MMORPG's and some for years, but SW:TOR is so wildly different form Eve and so smilar to the kinds of games I left behind, that if do decide to go back to the SW universe, it will something I dabble with and not my main game - Eve will be that for quite a few years I think.
Marko Riva Caldari Kneb Corp Ghosts of the Hallowed Sword	Posted - 2009.05.20 14:58:00 - [117] DAoC was fantastic, loved it to bits even though some classes were amazingly overpowered (mostly Midgard). I recently restarted with Vanguard again just to have something to do while I gain SP in EVE and it really is great, although it obviously lacks PVP. It's SUCH a revelation and really feels like an old school MMO; vast areas, no hard focussing on processing the player through the game. It feels like DAoC tbh (minus the RVR).
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.20 22:52:00 - [118] Originally by: Marko Riva DAoC was fantastic, loved it to bits even though some classes were amazingly overpowered (mostly Midgard). I recently restarted with Vanguard again just to have something to do while I gain SP in EVE and it really is great, although it obviously lacks PVP. It's SUCH a revelation and really feels like an old school MMO; vast areas, no hard focussing on processing the player through the game. It feels like DAoC tbh (minus the RVR). Ewwww PVP was what made daoc good, the PVE was just horrible mindless mob camping/grinding. I guess some folks like sitting in the same spot for hours and hours, but I never did. Was hoping they would come out with origins, but I'm guessing that ship has sailed. _________________________ I disagree...
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.20 23:30:00 - [119] Originally by: Marko Riva DAoC was fantastic, loved it to bits even though some classes were amazingly overpowered (mostly Midgard). I forgot to tell you how painful it was to blow hot coffee through my nose this morning when I read that. I've got a sneaky suspicion that you were an alb.
Marko Riva Caldari Kneb Corp Ghosts of the Hallowed Sword	Posted - 2009.05.22 09:12:00 - [120] Edited by: Marko Riva on 22/05/2009 09:15:10 Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: Marko Riva DAoC was fantastic, loved it to bits even though some classes were amazingly overpowered (mostly Midgard). I forgot to tell you how painful it was to blow hot coffee through my nose this morning when I read that. I've got a sneaky suspicion that you were an alb. Alb but mostly Hib, you're going to tell me that zerkers didn't for a long time had their damage modifiers messed up to a point they did twice the damage as they should, while lying about it? Or Savages who 'sometimes' did triple/quad damage, and by sometimes you mean 'every fight'? Warlock perhaps, who could frontload damage like no other. Bonedancer, the one man army? Insta stunning healers with cast animations that were hard to decipher so he didn't stand out? Yes, Midgard really had it difficult. I'm not saying hib/alb didn't have their issues but by god, midgard had em all.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.22 10:31:00 - [121] AOC and WAR were big disappointments for me. Besides the bugs the mechanics are still overly dependent on classes and levels. My current future hopes for MMOs are Champions, which looks like it will be a fun PvE-based game, and Earthrise, which could well turn out to be the closest thing to Eve set on post-apocalyptic Earth. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.05.22 17:01:00 - [122] I love how all these people are complaining about WAR, when Anarchy Online was, is, and will always be the WORST MMOG release. Look up that abortion, it'll top WAR, I garuantee! ----------------- Friends Forever
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.22 17:31:00 - [123] Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 22/05/2009 17:31:21 Oh how I miss these age old debates. We'll break em down. Originally by: Marko Riva zerkers didn't for a long time had their damage modifiers messed up to a point they did twice the damage as they should, while lying about it? The zerker was my first toon ever and I came in after the LA nerf. Yes the LA was vicious and imo should be so. Midgard were supposed to be the in your face norse warriors with Hibernia having heavy casting abilities and Albion were a mix of the 2 but did well off in the stealth department. anyways that LA nerf killed the damage output of the zerk AND hit the SB at the same time, Hence why most started going 2 handed (granted you even saw that class). Savages were later just a kick in the balls for zerker lovers and the mauler was a slap in the face while we were still on the ground. At least the SB got some love with having his Dmage changed from dex to str as they used a str based weapon and got a good increase on 2 hand PA. Originally by: Marko Riva Or Savages who 'sometimes' did triple/quad damage, and by sometimes you mean 'every fight'? At the expense of their own life, that's how the buffs work. I won't lie, a good player with that class was a absolute terror on the field. I doubt it was every time though. Originally by: Marko Riva Warlock perhaps, who could frontload damage like no other. Yeah they could, and one guy is gonna have a real bad day. One guy. After the frontload damage he is spent and soon dead if there is more than one target. Their casting speed was capped and they had large neon kill me sign above their heads for all the stealthers to see. So what does mythic do? They nerf the secondary line into oblivion. Let not worry about the fact that a cabby's dot could kill a healthy toon but oh man we gotta make that Warlock dot so pathetic you might cough for a second or two if you get hit by it. Soloers had a tendency to be the only group to complain about these guys. Originally by: Marko Riva Bonedancer, the one man army? Are we forgetting LOS breaking ani's who could take out entire wargroups? I got to watch once 64 people insta die from 4 ani's. They never even made it past the keep door. Or we could talk about necro's parking their pets inside of trees for about 2 years. Or maybe the Bainshee that could 2 shot groups and hit through walls. Originally by: Marko Riva Insta stunning healers with cast animations that were hard to decipher so he didn't stand out? We did have the best healer out there and by god we needed him. But unless you were spec'd heavy in pack your stuns weren't that great. The minst had a much longer timer and could spam his unlike the healer. Plus the minst could stealth and run with a red con pet. Originally by: Marko Riva Yes, Midgard really had it difficult. I'm not saying hib/alb didn't have their issues but by god, midgard had em all. On my server we were the red headed stepchildren of the game. We never had our relics, we hardly ever had our keeps. When fighting albs it was always at the very minimum 4-1 (and the bastards still wouldn't leave the safety of their keep)
Darwin Duck Ihatalo Navy Ihatalo Cartel Navy	Posted - 2009.05.25 09:43:00 - [124] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg I love how all these people are complaining about WAR, when Anarchy Online was, is, and will always be the WORST MMOG release. Look up that abortion, it'll top WAR, I garuantee! Yeah, but in 2001 when Ao was released and for a few years all MMO's had terrible releases, AO was the worst though. the registration server for SWG went down like 15 minutes aafter it opened and most people wasn't able to register their copy of the game for days, and lots of downtime in the beginning. Today we expect MMO's to be in working order at release, even though they seldom are.

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