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Varick Chase	Posted - 2009.05.10 13:54:00 - [1] Any one else think that the Caldari should have some of their ships fitted with drone bays? Some Gallente ships, the Thorax for example, can fit a full compliment of high slot blasters and still carry drones. Some people say, "O well Caldari get missiles so they do not get drones," well what Caldari ship can fit a full compliment of high slot rails or blasters and still fit four or five missiles launchers? Caldari ships can only have one or the other, not both. Gallente for some reason get both. I just think there should be at least one Caldari boat dedicated to drones and maybe give some of our other boats some kind of use full drone bay. I am not sure how other races compare to Gallente as far as drones are concerned so i can not comment on them.
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.05.10 14:04:00 - [2] Amarr get a few dronen based ships. Matari fare better than Caldari but certainly don't have any specialist drone ship. In all honesty, the lack of drones on Caldari ships really doesn't bother me at all. There is plenty of compensation elsewhere. Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate'
Domin Mae	Posted - 2009.05.10 16:37:00 - [3] Originally by: Varick Chase Any one else think that the Caldari should have some of their ships fitted with drone bays? Some Gallente ships, the Thorax for example, can fit a full compliment of high slot blasters and still carry drones. Some people say, "O well Caldari get missiles so they do not get drones," well what Caldari ship can fit a full compliment of high slot rails or blasters and still fit four or five missiles launchers? Caldari ships can only have one or the other, not both. Gallente for some reason get both. I just think there should be at least one Caldari boat dedicated to drones and maybe give some of our other boats some kind of use full drone bay. I am not sure how other races compare to Gallente as far as drones are concerned so i can not comment on them. So you want a Caldari boat that uses drones instead missiles? Why not just fly Gallente?
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.05.10 16:43:00 - [4] Originally by: Domin Mae So you want a Caldari boat that uses drones instead missiles? Why not just fly Gallente? Exactly. Where are the Gallente missile boats? Where are the Amarr blaster-bonused ships? And so forth. So - to answer the OP's question directly: No, I don't think Caldari should get drone boats. It wouldn't fit in with the racial flavour.
Vyllana	Posted - 2009.05.10 17:15:00 - [5] Edited by: Vyllana on 10/05/2009 17:22:41 Edited by: Vyllana on 10/05/2009 17:18:32 The above analogies are seriously flawed. Blasters are not a secondary weapon system for every race, and Gallente do have missile boats (lachesis, eris, nemesis). Drones are a secondary/tertiary weapon system for all races. All races have ships with drone bays. Two of the races receive ships with drone bonuses, a third race receives ships with enlarged drone bays but no drone bonuses, and a fourth race has only minimal drone bays. Below is a list of the primary, secondary, and tertiary weapon system for each race. Each race receives at least one ship with enhanced capability to use each of its primary, secondary, and tertiary weapon systems, with the sole exception of Caldari and drones. Amarr: primary weapon - lasers secondary weapon - missiles tertiary weapon - drones Gallente: primary weapon - hybrids secondary weapon - drones tertiary weapon - missiles Minmatar primary weapon - projectiles secondary weapon - missiles tertiary weapon - drones Caldari primary weapon - missiles secondary weapon - hybrids tertiary weapon - drones Giving the Caldari a few ships with larger drone bays or drone bonuses would be appropriate, even if these ships/bonuses were only as peripheral and non-consequential as the three Gallente missile boats.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.05.10 17:30:00 - [6] The above analysis is seriously flawed. Shoehorning weapons into "primary, secondary and tertiary" designations does not reflect reality. For example, both missiles and hybrids have equal claim to be the Caldari "primary" weapon, and it is absurd to describe drones as the Caldari "tertiary" system when so many ships have bonuses to ECM.
Vyllana	Posted - 2009.05.10 17:41:00 - [7] ECM is a form of EWAR, not a "weapon". By weapon I mean something that can be used to do damage. Each race has multiple ships that get bonuses to one or more types of EWAR. ECM in the case of Caldari, energy neuts/vamps and TDs in the case of Amarr, TPs and webbers in the case of Minmatar, warp jammers and sensor dampeners in the case of Gallente. Furthermore, yes, Hybrids are quite prominent on many Caldari ships, coming close to the number of missile ships. I would say that if one looks specifically at combat (i.e. damage/tank) oriented ships, rather than support/ewar type ships, there are actually a couple more Caldari missile boats than Hybrid boats. However, even conceding this point, that doesn't change the argument whatsoever. You can put them in a "tie" for both primary/secondary for Caldari and it doesn't change anything.
Enden Assulu Caldari Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2009.05.10 17:44:00 - [8] You can't have a Caldari drone ship it would be beyond pointless. A drone carrying frigate would be too much like the ishkur A drone carrying cruiser would be too much like vexor/arbitrator A drone carrying battle cruiser would be too much like the myrm A drone carrying BS would be too much like the domi You can't have every race the same, other wise what would be the ****ing point of training different races? Then all races would do the same thing but in different coloured ships. If you want drones train Gallente it is their thing.
Vyllana	Posted - 2009.05.10 17:52:00 - [9] Originally by: Enden Assulu You can't have a Caldari drone ship it would be beyond pointless. A drone carrying frigate would be too much like the ishkur A drone carrying cruiser would be too much like vexor/arbitrator A drone carrying battle cruiser would be too much like the myrm A drone carrying BS would be too much like the domi You can't have every race the same, other wise what would be the ****ing point of training different races? Then all races would do the same thing but in different coloured ships. If you want drones train Gallente it is their thing. This argument is seriously flawed. There are already many ships that have similar counterparts in other races, varying only in slot layout or bonuses. For example, since you mentioned assault ships, the harpy and enyo already use the same weapon system (though they have different bonuses and slot layouts). Next, the ships don't necessarily have to have drone bonuses, they could just have an expanded drone bay. Take a few of the weaker, lesser used Caldari ships and give them enlarged drone bays would not make them identical to their counterparts. Would a Ferox with a 75m3 drone bay be the same as a Myrm? No. Would a hawk with a 25m3 drone bay be the same as an Ishkur? No. Would a Rook with 50m3 bandwidth and 125m3 dronebay be the same as a Curse or Lachesis? No. Those are just some random examples, but it should be obvious that increasing drone bays on a few Caldari ships would not suddenly make them identical with other race's ships.
Deadeye Devie Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.10 18:08:00 - [10] i agree, the list of primary, secondary and teriary weapons system is VERY flawed... Gallenti have the formost partical blaster manufactures and the BEST drones manufacturers in New Eden, and therefor are both blaster AND drone based systems Caldari are lacking in commercial prowess due to thier long standing blood feud with the Gallenti, and they are mainly tactitions in using shield defence and missles for long range...also they are responsible for using rails predominantly with Ishukone being the major producers of rails and rail-based ships minmatar are realy focused on sub-battleship warfair and are mainly nomadic and scavanger-based, due to enslavement and general side-lining in most interstellar situations due to a chaotic tribal formation. they favour capless weapons of low-tech make for thier ships, thus feel adding tech copied off of the caldari in missles helps thier attack power...and of course, since being allied loosely with the gallenti, also choose to add a dash of drones to augment this...coupled with no real focus on tank style, they are the real misfits Amarr are mainly responsible for lasers as they were 1 of the 1st races to advance and as such ended up subjugating the Minmatar race, creating the Ammatar, and kanid regions....Kanid being responsible for very robust tanks and so thier weapons systems are usually an afterthought, the curse ditching the usual close range missles for neuts and nos, and the sacrilige using missle systems developed from the most advanced Caldari designs. over all, tho minnie is seen as the underdog race, thats because they are fractured scavangers, the Caldari are worse off, due to thier near-fanatical hatred of gallenti and all things to do with them, has historically separated them from developing into a real formidable force....they are greart in big fleets, but on the whole the opposite of the Gal...thus have no drone bays of any significance Gal are friends with minnie, and trade with amarr, tho they are not fond of the Amarr in thier monotheistic fanaticism. Amarr trade with Gal as they know if they were to go to war with the Gal federation, they would suffer greatly, and trade with caldari as it keeps them a valuable ally if they were to go to war. They hate minnie and think the entire race should be wiped off the face of the universe or kept on thier drug Vitoc to make them the perfect docile slaves they should be. Minmatar are good friends with the Gal, due to the aid and compassion the galhave showed them, Hate the Amarr for almost wiping out a few of thier 7 tribes, and think the Caldari state should grow up and stop screwing itsself over with all its communist ideoligy that destroyed its state since it tried to take on the Gal federation years ago. and lastly, the Caldari state have ended up messing themselves up with corruption being rife in almost every aspect of thier corporation inferstructures, which are only just bouyant due to the Gal state propping them up in hope that they will 1 day fulfill thier goal of becoming a successfull finantial power in the universe, and are bitterly resentfull that the peace-loving, arty, frence Gal are more successfull than them, they like the amarr state due to them also having a dislike for Gals 'unholy ways' and so take part in the slave trading of minnie peoples to gain favour and trade with the amarr. so you see, it makes no sense for the caldari to suddenly get big drone bays when drones are mainly the invention and use of the Gallenti Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both.
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.05.10 18:22:00 - [11] Gallente "missile boats" are often terrible tbh. I don't know why you'd want to inflict that on Caldari players.
Gabrielle Lyoncoure	Posted - 2009.05.10 18:25:00 - [12] you know using the backstory for reference, didn't the Caldari rely more on their 1-man fighters? The gallente started drone technology to counter the caldari fighters. Soooooooooooo logically, the caldari ships should be able to use fighters :P
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Interstellar eXodus	Posted - 2009.05.10 18:29:00 - [13] So the Caracal shouldn't be able to use 5 small drones because...? The moa shouldn't be able to use 5 small drones because...? Oh right, no one has given any reasons; only arguments for off topic crap.
Hadrian Zorn	Posted - 2009.05.10 18:34:00 - [14] Maybe they should just give the Scorp 125 m¦ dronebay and bandwith. Brings it closer to the other tier one battleships, and Caldari a reason to train heavy drones before jumping into a carrier.
Footoo Rama	Posted - 2009.05.10 18:37:00 - [15] Amarr and Mini's are split missel/drone about equal to both... They differ with projectile vs lasers. Gallante vs Caldari are split majorly by the drone/missle difference, since they both use hybrids with similar bonuses. What I see here is someone that started as Caldari as they are easier for new players, and realized that in the long run drones are way better then missles esp in PvP...
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.05.10 18:40:00 - [16] Edited by: Murina on 10/05/2009 18:42:22 Originally by: Atsuko Ratu So the Caracal shouldn't be able to use 5 small drones because...? The moa shouldn't be able to use 5 small drones because...? Oh right, no one has given any reasons; only arguments for off topic crap. Dps figures for each race/class/ship ect have already been worked out so if you wanna give these ships extra dps from drones how do you intend to compensate for it?.
Deadeye Devie Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.10 18:44:00 - [17] Originally by: Gabrielle Lyoncoure you know using the backstory for reference, didn't the Caldari rely more on their 1-man fighters? The gallente started drone technology to counter the caldari fighters. Soooooooooooo logically, the caldari ships should be able to use fighters :P .....and Carriers and motherships were introduced with the aim for pilots to be able to load thier corp members toons into the fighters to control them. Also fighters are only useable by carriers, which would maean if caldari can use fighters in a drone bay, all races should be able to...taking away the uniqueness of fighters. Its about the balance between story and game mechanics Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both.
Trader20	Posted - 2009.05.10 18:56:00 - [18] Edited by: Trader20 on 10/05/2009 18:56:50 Specialized drones ships should be gallente realm, but long travel time dps (missiles) is Caldari realm so gallente should get bonuses to sentries and Caldari should get bonuses to large combat drones .
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.10 19:04:00 - [19] Originally by: Varick Chase Any one else think that the Caldari should have some of their ships fitted with drone bays? Some Gallente ships, the Thorax for example, can fit a full compliment of high slot blasters and still carry drones. Some people say, "O well Caldari get missiles so they do not get drones," well what Caldari ship can fit a full compliment of high slot rails or blasters and still fit four or five missiles launchers? Caldari ships can only have one or the other, not both. Gallente for some reason get both. I just think there should be at least one Caldari boat dedicated to drones and maybe give some of our other boats some kind of use full drone bay. I am not sure how other races compare to Gallente as far as drones are concerned so i can not comment on them. Anyone else think that Gallente should have some of their ships fitted with missile launchers? Some Caldari ships, the caracal for example, can fit 5 missile launchers. Some people say, "O well gallente get drones so they do not get missiles", well what gallente ship can fit a full compliment of high slot turrets and still fit four or five missile launchers? Gallente ships can only have turrets, not missiles. Caldari for some reason gets missiles. I just think there should be at least one gallente boat dedicated to missiles and maybe give some of our other boats some kind of missile hardpoint. I am not sure how other races compare to Caldari as far as missiles are concerned so I can not comment on them.
Oramin	Posted - 2009.05.10 19:45:00 - [20] Any one else think that Gallente should have drones that can fire missiles? Seriously, OP, if you want to fly drone ships and missile ships then do what I did and train both Gallente and Caldari. Also, I find the drone bay on my Drake to be quite useful.
Enden Assulu Caldari Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2009.05.10 19:54:00 - [21] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Varick Chase Any one else think that the Caldari should have some of their ships fitted with drone bays? Some Gallente ships, the Thorax for example, can fit a full compliment of high slot blasters and still carry drones. Some people say, "O well Caldari get missiles so they do not get drones," well what Caldari ship can fit a full compliment of high slot rails or blasters and still fit four or five missiles launchers? Caldari ships can only have one or the other, not both. Gallente for some reason get both. I just think there should be at least one Caldari boat dedicated to drones and maybe give some of our other boats some kind of use full drone bay. I am not sure how other races compare to Gallente as far as drones are concerned so i can not comment on them. Anyone else think that Gallente should have some of their ships fitted with missile launchers? Some Caldari ships, the caracal for example, can fit 5 missile launchers. Some people say, "O well gallente get drones so they do not get missiles", well what gallente ship can fit a full compliment of high slot turrets and still fit four or five missile launchers? Gallente ships can only have turrets, not missiles. Caldari for some reason gets missiles. I just think there should be at least one gallente boat dedicated to missiles and maybe give some of our other boats some kind of missile hardpoint. I am not sure how other races compare to Caldari as far as missiles are concerned so I can not comment on them. I think your missing out on the missile slots on the hype/mega
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2009.05.10 20:10:00 - [22] And you chose to post this with you Gallente alt instead of your 13mil sp Caldari main, how cute. In answer to your question . . no. Just because you are the majority race in the game you do not get everything. Content yourself with the most @#$%^&* powerful and annoying EW and range. Oh, and train more than one race anyway (i.e. Gallente for their wonderful drone boats perhaps), gives you some nerfproofing. Enjoy the game and learn a bit more before you start a thread again.
4 LOM United Gamers	Posted - 2009.05.10 21:17:00 - [23] Originally by: Enden Assulu You can't have a Caldari drone ship it would be beyond pointless. A drone carrying frigate would be too much like the ishkur A drone carrying cruiser would be too much like vexor/arbitrator A drone carrying battle cruiser would be too much like the myrm A drone carrying BS would be too much like the domi You can't have every race the same, other wise what would be the ***ing point of training different races? Then all races would do the same thing but in different coloured ships. If you want drones train Gallente it is their thing. Let me make this clear caldari should not get a dron ship, and drones should be extreamly limited on caldari ships. However your point makes no sense... lets look at gallenty ships for example Nemesis = missile bonus (this one i am willing to let go) Lachesis = missile bonus tristan is a split system with launchers. So gallenty have at least one ship thats a missile bonused ship, so gallenty get top step on caldari shoes while you think its not fair at all that caldari get a drone ship (even if its as crappy as the lachesis) Again i dont think caldari should get a drone ship... what should happen is the lachesis should be changed. and so should the tristan really make it a 4 turret ship. Call my crazy but strip/reduce the drone bays of caldari ships and the launcher points off gallenty ships... I think at most a caldari battleship should have 25m^3 of a drone bay enough for a flight of lights, frigates should have 0 drone bays on caldari ships and max 10-15m^3 on cruisers/batttlecruiers. Then drop all launchers from gallenty ships. Why does the megathron have 2x launchers? you would think by now they would remove those to save some manufacturing cost. From an RP standpoint no one would buy less megathrons because they dont have there launcher points. (same with the hperion.) Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
Varick Chase	Posted - 2009.05.10 21:46:00 - [24] Every one seems to have missed the point. All the Gallente drone ships get two full primary weapons systems, drones and high slot weapons. What Caldari ship gets two full primary weapons systems? Look at thew thorax for example. It can fit a full compliment of 5 high slot blasters and have all that drone space. What Caldari cruiser can match it? And the Thorax isn't even meant to use drones as primary weapons. OK Caldari get the Moa with 5 high slots for weapons. It has a range bonus and a shield resist bonus. If the ship is used as a sniper as intended then the shield resist bonus is worthless, and it still has no drone bay to compete.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.10 21:53:00 - [25] Originally by: Varick Chase Every one seems to have missed the point. All the Gallente drone ships get two full primary weapons systems, drones and high slot weapons. What Caldari ship gets two full primary weapons systems? Look at thew thorax for example. It can fit a full compliment of 5 high slot blasters and have all that drone space. What Caldari cruiser can match it? And the Thorax isn't even meant to use drones as primary weapons. OK Caldari get the Moa with 5 high slots for weapons. It has a range bonus and a shield resist bonus. If the ship is used as a sniper as intended then the shield resist bonus is worthless, and it still has no drone bay to compete. You don't seem to understand that ships have bonuses in such a way that it theoretically balances out completely. Yes, the thorax has 5 turrets and 50m3 bandwidth. It also has an optimal of about 2km, where your caracal would have over 60x that much. Caldari ships are sitting pretty right now, it's almost funny to see you complain about gallente being uber with their two whole weapon systems. PS. The bellicose has 3 primary weapon systems, OMGWTFBBQ most OP ship ever, amirite?
Kemshi	Posted - 2009.05.10 21:55:00 - [26] I have to take issue with the weapon rating as well. I am Gallente by birth. I use my T2 drones for 90% of my damage in my Domi. About the only time I even turn on my 350 lg hybrids is to pull aggro. I think the ships are what you make them. Now, as for why dont Caldari have more drone bay... Why don't Gallente have more than 2 launcher hardpoints? Simply put earlier, if that was the case, we might as well all fly the same ships in the same race.
Varick Chase	Posted - 2009.05.10 22:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Kemshi Now, as for why dont Caldari have more drone bay... Why don't Gallente have more than 2 launcher hardpoints? they do not need them they have a full rack of high slot weapons and a goodly drone bay. how can people compare missiels to drones? on my caracal I can not fit 5 launchers AND 5 turrets. it is one or the other. All I am saying is that the Caldari need at lest one drone boat.
Kemshi	Posted - 2009.05.10 22:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Varick Chase Originally by: Kemshi Now, as for why dont Caldari have more drone bay... Why don't Gallente have more than 2 launcher hardpoints? they do not need them they have a full rack of high slot weapons and a goodly drone bay. how can people compare missiels to drones? on my caracal I can not fit 5 launchers AND 5 turrets. it is one or the other. All I am saying is that the Caldari need at lest one drone boat. Then why don't Gallente need at least one missile boat...?
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2009.05.10 22:15:00 - [29] Originally by: Stuart Price Amarr get a few dronen based ships. Matari fare better than Caldari but certainly don't have any specialist drone ship. In all honesty, the lack of drones on Caldari ships really doesn't bother me at all. There is plenty of compensation elsewhere. Not really. I can't think of a single category where Caldari walks away with "best of breed" other than recons and maybe HICs and marauders (PVE not PVP ship so who cares?). You could debatably say they have a decent AF. Possibly black ops but I'll be the first to admit I don't know **** about black ops. Let's go through them one by one: T-1 -------------------- Frigate - Rifter, Punisher Cruiser - Thorax, Rupture, Arbitrator, Vexor Battlecruiser - Harbinger, Hurricane Battleship - Geddon, Megathron, Apoc, Dominix Carrier - Archon, Thanatos Dread - Revelation, Moros Mothership - Nyx, Aeon T-2 -------------------- Interceptor - Taranis, Crusader, Stiletto Stealth bomber - Hound, Purifier Assault Ship - Ishkur, Harpy Dictor - Sabre HAC - Vagabond, Ishtar, Zealot HIC - Devoter, Onyx Logistics - Guardian Recon - Curse, Rook Command Ships - Astarte, Sleiphnir, Damnation Marauder - Paladin, Golem
Varick Chase	Posted - 2009.05.10 22:20:00 - [30] Originally by: Kemshi Originally by: Varick Chase Originally by: Kemshi Then why don't Gallente need at least one missile boat...? I see no reason why they should not have at least one.

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