EVE Search - 'Better' Mission Runner than CNR?

All Channels

Ships and Modules

'Better' Mission Runner than CNR?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.05.20 05:48:00 - [1] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton because i saw someone post that because it has a tracking bonus it does more rDPS then a paladin even though they do the same eDPS!!!! Yes, I'm aware of the tracking bonus. However: - The Paladin has a superior tank, especially against enemies that are vulnerable (and deal) EM damage. This tends to (I may be missing something) mean that the Nightmare doesn't have the tracking mods that the Paladin would. - The 2 TCs I see on the "standard Paladin fit" should more than overcome the tracking bonus (hell, even 1 almost totally negates it) - The Paladin can Wrecking Ball and scoop loot as you go. This is a huge money maker, regardless of whether you're actually salvaging. Again: I'm wondering "why Nightmare?" I mean, feel free to tell me I'm missing something, but do try to clue me in (I'm big dumb and ugly so make it blunt too). -Liang * When you can do mission already without needing to warp out 'more tank' does nothing for your mission completion speed. * Dunno about standard fits. Mine has so many tracking mods I'm running into stacking penalty already. Plus ofc the built in tracking bonus. I would not put too heavy weight on tracking bonus tho, main reason to use all those tracking mods is to get higher optimal and use higher damage ammo at long range. Don't need cap stability so that leaves some more slots open than 'standard'. * Marauders are indeed good at looting. However in my opinion missionrunner is running in rather ineffective way if he has time to loot and admire scenerey between killing the targets. I prefer to use special golem for looting - with salvage rigs and cargo expanders. Granted, it's not 'regular' so for slow killers it's definately advantage. * I would like to add another point in favor of Paladin tho - it's capacitor. At the end of day it's a bit less relevant than tracking bonus tho in my opinion, as in most cases it's somewhat 'theoretical' number. In real mission your lasers are not constantly firing so theoretical capacitor of approx 4 minutes, can last you longer in mission. Same thing as with tank - if you can do the mission it does not matter how long you could have lasted after completing it. Overall they are on equal footing - it's just that Nightmare will get it's max damage from Caldary BS 5 + Amarr BS 5, while paladin would need Amarr BS 5 + Marauders lev 5 for max damage. I',m not convinced that marauder 5 is sensible expenditure of training time tho - unless you are missionrunning alt flying marauder that is. My opinion might be slightly tilted as I fly Nightmare and have not bothered trying out the Paladin.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.05.20 07:52:00 - [2] Torps are affected by defenders, even when they do not die to first hit. The defender mechaniks was reworked shortly after the new missile damage formula to work 'better' with grouped launchers and citadel torpedoes. Nowdays missile does damage propotional to it's remaining hp on hit. Altho ofc it's just small technicality. In the ends missiles get defender spam and some missions trackiong disrupt you so hard that next time you pick missile ship when you go at it, even if they are EM weak. Also I'm with Qui on this one. At the end of day all that matters is the number of seconds you spent doing that mission. The various EFT numbers and uber dps figures are irrelevant if they do not result in actual faster mission completion time. Nightmare is actually faster in some missions but then again Golem is faster also in some missions. Hell you can even find missions out there where CNR is faster than either of them. Altho in the case of high end missionrunning the speed differences are mostly cosmetic. If you have max skills, headful of hardwires and know exaclty what you are doing then the rats melt quite fast.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.05.22 08:19:00 - [3] Traderboz summarized it up quite nice. In real EVE EFT numbers are more like ... a guideline ... than actual rule. At the end of day all that matters is actual mission completion time. And those are somewhat more complex than just one number on the paper. Good pilot can get better speeds with some mediocre ship than poor pilot with the best that money can buy. And by 'good' and 'poor' in here I do not mean the SP amount but actual player skill.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.05.25 07:44:00 - [4] Originally by: Seriously Bored Edited by: Seriously Bored on 22/05/2009 15:28:10 Originally by: Qui Shon In all honesty, it's not. That extra 65 dps (with my sp/imps) DOES matter in mission completion time. More then you think. I know, because I spent a lot of time, minimizing completion times. Not to jump into someone else's argument, but...an extra 65dps gives you ~8.6% faster completion time, if your shooting is never interrupted. That saves you about 2 minutes, 30 seconds on a mission that takes a half hour to run. For some people max efficiency is absolutely everything, and I won't knock that. But to most people, saving yourself that much time means...you can take an extra smoke break? Stand up from the computer chair, stretch, and grab a beer? Mission completions times are not in linear correlation with your 'actual' dps. Ie doing 8.6 % more dps lowers your mission running time more than that. In theory. In practice damage you are doing is discreet as you can't divide it into smaller chunks than the amount your one short is doing. Ofc it is correct that most people seem to have more 'casual' missionrunning style. And then there are people who do their missions for isk to fund the fun part of game and do care about having the optimal perfromance for maximum isk/h to have to do 'the job' as fast as possible and go have fun after it. Example: rat can tank 400 dps and has 10 000 hp, you do 500 dps and kill it in 100 seconds rat can tank 400 dps and has 10 000 hp, you do 600 dps and kill it in 50 seconds rat can tank 400 dps and has 10 000 hp, you do 700 dps and kill it in 33 seconds
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.05.25 11:18:00 - [5] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Honestly, if you're taking so long to kill each NPC that they're actually tanking any meaningful amount of damage, you're doing something seriously wrong. There is still difference between killing 'it' in one volley or two volleys if we talk about high(er) end missionrunning. Or in case of bigger ship between needing 3 volleys (around 20 seconds) to kill a NPC battleship or 4 volleys (around 27 seconds). Damage does matter. On paper it's dps (as approximation to 'real' discreet burst damage). As all reasonable approximations it is giving you reasonable idea what to expect but includes also some simplifications that can mislead you (like issues of tracking for guns or signature/velocity of targets for missiles) in some situations where simplifications done do matter. And there are also some NPC's out there that do tank enough to take maningful amounts of damage. Like most elite cruisers who are able to get in their repper cykle more often than not under some 'critical' dps figure causing you to use one extra volley on them.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.05.26 10:12:00 - [6] Have you guys actually tried those Tengu setups in real missions ? When they were introduced I tested some setups for Tengu in SiSi (best for missions seemed to be configuration with 6 launchers). They were ok, but in my opinion Tengu was approx as good missionrunner as Nighthawk is. A bit thinner tank (in that configuration), approx same damage and somewhat more mobile. Note however that currently mobility is important only in one mission I'm aware of (The score ? .. the one with 3x 50 km travel and not many opponents). In the rest you still have crap to shoot even with dual Golems when reaching next gate (as gate distances were lowered in majority of them considerably). In my hands Tengu was outperformed by Golem in actual mission completion speed. Granted I think they have been tweaked somewhat after that (4th subsystem and all that) - so - does anyone have actual missionrunning times recorded with that ship, or are we discussing only theoretical EFT numbers in here about it ?
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.05.27 10:21:00 - [7] Edited by: Carniflex on 27/05/2009 10:24:14 Originally by: Tester128 Originally by: Carniflex Have you guys actually tried those Tengu setups in real missions ? I'll do some tests. For the moment Pirate invasion - Sansha - 24 minutes from speaking to agent to speaking to agent. Not the best example ofc, as i don't have t2 hms, so no rages, it's sansha, so no kinetic bonus, still seems quite ok. That is indeed not a bad number, altho 'combat time' would be better in my opinion. Mainly as it's easier to 'measure' from eve combat logs. And it will remove diparency caused by different travel times from comparison (ie there is quite a difference if mission is in same system or 3 jumps out). I myself prefer little app called EVE combat log analyzer for timing. It's somewhat unfinished and has not been updated for some years, but still provides some useful data, like total amount of rat hp you had to go thru in mission, number of shots fired and ofc time difference between first hit in mission to last hit in mission. I was not saying Tengu is bad missionrunner - same way as Nighthawk is not a bad missionrunner. I just expressed my impression (that is not same as measured fact) that it seemed to be somewhat outperformed in actual missions by bigger ships. For comparison - missionrunning times with 2x cruise Golem team in minutes (this is combat time. In solo you might expect mission times to be approx 40% longer). Angel Extravaganza (no bonus)23 Attack of The Drones7 Cargo Delivery5 Damsel in Distress9 Downing The Slavers (2 of 2)6 Duo of death3 Gone bersek7 Massive Attack11 Pirate invasion (sansha)10 Recon (1 of 3)9 Rogue Drone Harassement6 Shipyard Theft (blood)13 Silence The Informant12 Smuggler Interception11 The Assault10 The Gurista Spies6 The Rogue Slave Trader (1 of 2)3 The Score (CNR + domi AF)11 The Score (golems)20 Unauthorized Military Presence9 Vegenance10 Worlds Collide (serp-gur, 3 parts)19

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.