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MarieFrance Tessier	Posted - 2009.05.14 13:32:00 - [61] Edited by: MarieFrance Tessier on 14/05/2009 13:32:06 Originally by: quave sense of scale Rohk vs car close up sense of scale Rohk vs car zoom out sense of scale spot the gman Made in gmod, Someone else extracted the models from eve. I had to use the biggest map available, even so when i tried this with a hyperion the game broke . Goddamnit, so much, that makes me want to live in a spaceship. I think my favorite house in the game would be the large villa on top of the Hurricaine. (pretty much the area with three sweeps of light coming out each direction). And yes, LOTS of backstory mentions that pod pilots are unimaginably rich. The currency we use is way beyond the needs of the average civilian, even cents.
JAME5 KIRK	Posted - 2009.05.16 16:44:00 - [62] i'd like to thank everyone for their input on this, some valid points and somethings i hadnt even thought of. If ayone has anymore, keep them coming.
Asuka Smith Gallente StarHunt	Posted - 2009.05.16 18:22:00 - [63] Originally by: Tippia I'm fairly certain that the lore explains this by saying that it's called Interstellar Credits for a reason: you use it for the kinds of large-scale economy that exists between solar systems and planets, not as something you use to pop down to the shop for a pack of smokes Here I thought that it stood for Icelandic Kroner, you sure you read your version in the lore?
Jat Goodwin	Posted - 2009.05.16 18:32:00 - [64] "Space, is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space."
Holy Lowlander	Posted - 2009.05.16 19:10:00 - [65] I would love to have a rupture with 24 autocannons on every side in different sizes and 15 missle bays a long with small 1-man fighters zooming around. Or better yet an avatar with thousands of freaking laser beams.
Merdorn	Posted - 2009.05.16 20:06:00 - [66] In regaurds to missels running out of fuel, To be honest with the amount of power it takes to fit a Luancher (a metal rack in the simpelest set up) almost all of the speed is coming from the luancher itself and how fast it flings the missle (its a really large bore gun). the fuel in the missle would only be used for course corrections and as such should last a good deal longer then it does now, as only a rather small RCS system would be needed save for all but the terminal stage of its flight (the luancher lobs it in the right section of space, the RCS get it to that space, then the terminal stage is when it light up and slams in to its target). To be honest though Projectial weps would beable to have the same sort of set up. A RCS system onboard to correct for not beable to point right at something. I am not talking about full on guidences, maybe just a rudamentery keep on this line of flight type thing (like a slight hook shot). But with no resistance the only thing that would have to be added in is time. In a perfict type setting, the ranges for wep systems would be this order Missle Projectial Hybrid Lasers In that beams are restricted to the turrent only for aiming, and hybrids would loss charge over time. Now in this soup that is the eve, this seems to not apply. Missles must keep there motor on all the time to maintain speed, projectials of both types lose any resembalince of prodictable flight path over the span of a hundered K, But beams seem to be Unphased by the galatic soup. They maintain there coohesion for almost there entire usefull distance, instead of dropping in damage the further you get from point of origin. This must be becouse they get focus at the point of impact (so in a perfect of imperfect world they would have the same range). But to impose the enviroment on 3 of the 4 wep systems seems wrong.
Marquis Jeladriel	Posted - 2009.05.16 20:11:00 - [67] Originally by: Jat Goodwin "Space, is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." Kudos for the Douglas Adams quote
Merdorn	Posted - 2009.05.16 20:27:00 - [68] On the topic of the smaller ships (like the enterprise) having less weps, that is mostly wrong. What thay had where banks of weps but also firing arcs. So for the most part not all weps on a ship could be brought to bear on any one target Maybe 75% to 90% dependig on ship layout. The original trek ship had atlest 16 phasers spreed in 8 twin gun turns that faced the cardnel directions with pretty much 90 degree firing arcs (4 banks for the lower hemisphire and 4 banks for the upper hemisphere). Most you could get on you at any one time was up to 2 banks normally, or 4 on the boarder between arcs and at the Equatorial line. so max of 8 guns. Also the ship had Torp tubes, aranged both forward and aft (again they had arcs) that could only fire mostly just forward and aft. But the tubes where not just one tube but a bank of lunchers as well with 2 pointing forward (2 tubes with 2 luanchers sharing one tube) and a rear bank with 2 luanchers. So 6 total torp tubes. So counted up you have 16 guns and 6 missles. Way more then a eve ship. Now granted that that ship was a NCC or New Command Cruser so eqivalent to a BC in eve. ALso the missles it fired was the same ones fired by smaller firgeats and Destroyers just it was able to fire more at one time. That was one of the benifitest was it gave the Federations frigetes the punch of ships much larger in size just lacked the staying power or the ammo. Thouse torps did the same damage no matter who fired them. Again EVE do not alow for this as giving a race advantage like this to a race would not work, as everyone can fly everything.
stoicfaux	Posted - 2009.05.16 22:26:00 - [69] Originally by: Nico Terces What I dont understand is how projectile size scales to range... I mean a proper artillery cannon can fire say what, 40 km distance on earth, which is in a parabolic trajectory. Now, our eve guns fire like 50 km without advanced skills and technology... That's not very far in space, where there's almost no gravity or friction. You're so missing the magic about artillery in Eve. RL artillery can take several seconds to hit at range. A 155 mm howitzer has a muzzle velocity of 563 m/s (or 0.563 km/s.) In fact, modern artillery can fire half a dozen rounds at different angles and have them arrive on target at the same time. The M-1 tank's gun fires at 1580 m/s for an 8km range. By comparison, artillery guns in Eve hit instantly. So at 50km, with say, a .001 second flight time, an Eve artillery shell is traveling at least 50,000 kilometers per second. 155m howitzer -> 0.563 km/s M-1 120mm -> 1.58 km/s Eve Artillery -> 50,000 km/s. What is really interesting is when you compare Eve muzzle speeds to the speed of light: Laser traveling at speed of light (300,000 km/s) can cover 300km in .001 seconds Rokh w/ 425mm Railgun II with Spike Ammo can cover 224km in .001 sconds. An Eve hybrid round is traveling at 75% of the speed of light. (Assuming a .001 second shell travel speed. (Some math wiz can probably calculate a reasonable flight time based on maximum ship speeds.)) If you lengthen the flight time to .01 seconds, the hybrid round is going at 7% of the speed of light, which is still impressive. Long story short, guns and artillery in Eve are in no way based on real world guns and artillery (or physics as we understand them,) therefore drawing any kind of comparisons or making assumptions between Eve and RL tech is pointless. (Seriously, can you imagine what kind of power source/propellant would be required to get a shell up to 7% of the speed of light at the squeeze of a trigger?)
Lisento Slaven The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2009.05.16 22:37:00 - [70] Why do we have so few guns on our ships you ask? The guns/weapons are insanely powerful. That's like saying 8 nukes isn't enough. Hell..a flameburst light missile is probably enough to devastate a city block. --- Put in space whales!

Nelan Khalem	Posted - 2009.05.17 08:35:00 - [71] Originally by: Lisento Slaven Why do we have so few guns on our ships you ask? The guns/weapons are insanely powerful. That's like saying 8 nukes isn't enough. Hell..a flameburst light missile is probably enough to devastate a city block. Yes, our ammo are nuclear weapons. And realistic spacefight would take place at thousand of kilometers, at speeds higer than 15km/s, and accelerating would take the same time than decelerating. (a reallistic spacefight simulation would be fun to play with :p)
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.05.17 11:17:00 - [72] Originally by: Lisento Slaven Why do we have so few guns on our ships you ask? The guns/weapons are insanely powerful. That's like saying 8 nukes isn't enough. Hell..a flameburst light missile is probably enough to devastate a city block. actually, EVE weapons are underpowered. modern (20-th century) weapons philosophy is "one shot-one kill". basically, it takes one solid hit to disable a target of equal size. but, that would be no fun, would it?
Lisento Slaven The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2009.05.17 15:23:00 - [73] Originally by: Jagga Spikes actually, EVE weapons are underpowered. modern (20-th century) weapons philosophy is "one shot-one kill". basically, it takes one solid hit to disable a target of equal size. but, that would be no fun, would it? They're not underpowered...defensive systems in EVE are overpowered. Even structure in EVE is more powerful then any armor plating in the "real world". --- Put in space whales!
Vade Katana	Posted - 2009.05.17 16:59:00 - [74] Edited by: Vade Katana on 17/05/2009 17:00:57 Originally by: quave sense of scale Rohk vs car close up sense of scale Rohk vs car zoom out sense of scale spot the gman Made in gmod, Someone else extracted the models from eve. I had to use the biggest map available, even so when i tried this with a hyperion the game broke . aha thx for posting those pictures, i havent played gmod in a while so im downloading those models. Thx :D
stoicfaux	Posted - 2009.05.17 17:20:00 - [75] Originally by: Jagga Spikes actually, EVE weapons are underpowered. modern (20-th century) weapons philosophy is "one shot-one kill". basically, it takes one solid hit to disable a target of equal size. but, that would be no fun, would it? actually, EVE weapons are underpowered. modern (20-th century) weapons philosophy is "one shot-one kill". basically, it takes one solid hit to disable a target of equal size. but, that would be no fun, would it? Bad analogy. How often do navy ships one shot kill each other? Eve ships are tough: Collisions between ships in Eve don't do any damage. Being flipped around so quickly after a collision doesn't kill the crew by plastering them against the bulkheads either. That pretty much implies that Eve ships are immune to kinetic kill weapons. In the real world, if we could accelerate a slug as fast as an Eve hybrid round can travel, we would rely on just kinetic energy to get the kill. However, being immune to collision damage makes Eve ships immune to real world guns. And realistically, Eve Artillery cannons do not use the propellant to accelerate the shell. I'm not a ballistic or physics expert, but I'm fairly sure that a chemical explosion would never expand fast enough to accelerate a slug to a speed that is representative in Eve. Instead Artillery rounds provide their own energy to the cannon, and the cannon somehow fires/accelerates the artillery shell. (As opposed to the gun drawing energy from the ship's capacitor in order to accelerate the shell.) IMHO, the only "logical" way for Eve guns to work is that they somehow warp space in the same manner that the engines do. When a gun fires, it creates a tunnel of sub-light warped space that the shell travels along. (Eve sub-light engines warp space and the ship uses 'conventional' engines to surf the warped space or something to that effect.) So the gun warps space, and the shell travels the warp tunnel at normal ballistic speeds. Since Eve ships cannot travel very fast sub-light speeds, you could say that shell speeds are pretty low (i.e. no kinetic kill weapons are possible even if Eve ships were susceptible to kinetic attacks.) Therefore Eve gun rounds arrive on target at relatively low speeds and after riding a warp wave to their target. Therefore Eve rounds do damage by some exotic mechanism completely unrelated to real world guns. (Which is why Eve rounds are so varied.) The sub-light warp tunnel created by the guns could also explain the short ranges in Eve (the tunnel is limited in distance.) And the need to create a warp tunnel could also explain why there are so few guns on Eve ships. Also, since Eve rounds do damage proportional to target size, it implies that Eve rounds use completely different mechanisms to cause damage, meaning that there are no HE, HEAT, or Silver Bullet rounds in Eve. Plus Eve can mass produce Anti-Matter, which the most uber way we know of to destroy something. If you can deliver anti-matter to a target, then you really shouldn't need any other kind of damage type. However, since Eve has such varied ammunition, it means that even raw anti-matter isn't practical nor powerful enough to reliably kill Eve ships. Again, in no way shape or form, are Eve guns anything like real world guns. Drawing any kind of parallels between the two is doomed from the start.
Anslo	Posted - 2009.05.17 18:43:00 - [76] Originally by: TimMc Why so big? Because its awesome. Look at this image of all the eve ships for scale. How the hell do we know what Talocan ships look like???
Kick Muck	Posted - 2009.05.17 23:20:00 - [77] Damn those Vogons, their ships "...hang in the air in much the same way that bricks don't." (sic.)
Vain Eldritch	Posted - 2009.05.18 08:31:00 - [78] Also, why are there no crew numbers in the ship info'...? A titan-class ship must have at least 10,000 crew surely, and a battleship sveral hundred. Even a frig' must have several crew and officers. As I see it, in my imagination, my character is the captain on the bridge barking orders ("Hard to port! Roll 92 degrees port yaw! Fire starboard cannons!"; "Navigation! Plot us a course out of here!", etc ). I hope one day we can see our characters on the bridge with crew milling about...
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.05.18 08:47:00 - [79] Originally by: stoicfaux ... EVE weapons are intentionally underpowered as result of game mechanics. that is undeniable. no amount of techno-babbling is needed to justify it. EVE combat is about tactic and random one-shotting is not it. realistically, offense ALWAYS beats defense (on the same power level). it's just the way life is. example: portable rocket launcher allowing infantry to defeat armor besides, why do you think calling target and focusing fire works so well in EVE? because it's adaptation of RL combat philosophy. apply disabling force (combined DPS) to weak spot (single ship).
Vain Eldritch	Posted - 2009.05.20 10:49:00 - [80] Edited by: Vain Eldritch on 20/05/2009 10:53:09 Originally by: Jagga Spikes personally, i think EVE ships are too big. in real life, problem with large ships is not production cost, but maintenance. this is the reason there are no more active battleships. even USA packed their big guns. There are no more big battleships in the US navy, or any other navy for that matter, because modern warfare does not involve lobbing 16-inch shells from one ship to another - it involves submarine or air-launched guided missiles that will sink/cripple a big ship like the USS Iowa in one shot. Times have changed and battleships no longer rule the waves and have not since airpower took over. The Japanese super battleship Yamato was sunk in short order by bombers - that was the final proof that air power > sea power and the death-knell of the big battleships. In more modern times, several British ships were fatally damaged by single air-lauched missiles and the Argentinian battle cruiser General Belgrano was sunk by a British sub torpedo. In Eve, things are different and I think your upkeep/maintenance argument holds up well. Mind you, with nano-technology repair like nano paste, I fail to see why maintenance cannot resolved with similar high-tech methods.

Steed Rilelore	Posted - 2009.05.20 11:23:00 - [81] I guess it's self-explanatory with most of the ships. I mean even a friggate - being 30-40m long - which is only the length of probably two lorries more than anything - isn't overkill, considering you need the heavy engine equipment for warp-engines, freezing capsules, you need somewhere to park your pod, possibly a nice room to relax and watch some TV on your journey through several light-years of space and whatnot. If anything, judging from the actual "living area" on a shuttle's model in comparison to it's wing-span, engines and whatnot, you may feel a little cramped.
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa Minmatar The Perfect Harvesting Experience	Posted - 2009.05.20 11:27:00 - [82] Originally by: Schayol Sunkeeper this post is too long Took you some time, but you finally got to the point. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Paper Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.05.20 12:09:00 - [83] Originally by: Vain Eldritch There are no more big battleships in the US navy, or any other navy for that matter, because modern warfare does not involve lobbing 16-inch shells from one ship to another - it involves submarine or air-launched guided missiles that will sink/cripple a big ship like the USS Iowa in one shot. Times have changed and battleships no longer rule the waves and have not since airpower took over. The Japanese super battleship Yamato was sunk in short order by bombers - that was the final proof that air power > sea power and the death-knell of the big battleships. In more modern times, several British ships were fatally damaged by single air-lauched missiles and the Argentinian battle cruiser General Belgrano was sunk by a British sub torpedo. With the advent of real life railgun technology, big battleships might be making a comeback when they can lob a shell 200 miles at the fraction of the cost of a missile. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Draeca Tharri and Co.	Posted - 2009.05.23 20:27:00 - [84] Originally by: Warscythe Prime Light drones are also 30m long Check out how long fighters are in preview. Those pilots you can see inside sure are giants or something.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.05.23 20:54:00 - [85] Originally by: Draeca Originally by: Warscythe Prime Light drones are also 30m long Check out how long fighters are in preview. Those pilots you can see inside sure are giants or something. You know this is one thing that has always bugged me, these dudes must be fairly bloody massive.
SickSeven The Undead Righteous Knights	Posted - 2009.05.24 03:06:00 - [86] Looking at the latest Ship scale chart, capital ships are definitely too small. There is now way even a single Typhoon battlehip fits inside of a Nid carrier. Other than that I'm content with the ship sizes in EVE, because it's a game. Well, more importantly it's an MMO. If this were say a single player RPG/RTS I might demand a lot more realism out of it, but due to the fact that it is an MMO, I'm content with the compromises that were made regarding game mechanics and realism. In reality Maels with full racks of 1400s would be shooting targets well out of visual range, and if any ship even a carrier was hit with a full salvo it would most likely be out of comission. I think capitals may need to be bigger and battleship sized guns need an upsize, but other than that everything is good with me.
Mort Eveson Gallente Intaki Liberation Front	Posted - 2009.05.24 11:55:00 - [87] Originally by: Vain Eldritch Also, why are there no crew numbers in the ship info'...? A titan-class ship must have at least 10,000 crew surely, and a battleship sveral hundred. Even a frig' must have several crew and officers. As I see it, in my imagination, my character is the captain on the bridge barking orders ("Hard to port! Roll 92 degrees port yaw! Fire starboard cannons!"; "Navigation! Plot us a course out of here!", etc ). I hope one day we can see our characters on the bridge with crew milling about... But in EVE your captain isn't. He's floating inside his pod goo controlling the ship with his mind. Other than saying that you have crew CCP have never specifically said what they do, although the majority on the boards seem to see them as maintenance and to ensure your neural orders are carried out as intended (kind of acting like the cerebellum). So if you ever do get to go inside your ship you wouldn't be piloting it at the time :-p. A captain can leave his pod, but the ship would not be functional or if it was it would be massively sub functional. The ships we fly are modified for pod pilots, so have systems specific to them and as someone said before, massivly less crew than a normal ship (e.g. the faction navys or 'rats). ""
Antoine Roquentin Spaceship Lullaby	Posted - 2009.05.24 13:04:00 - [88] Edited by: Antoine Roquentin on 24/05/2009 13:07:00 I think I've found the explanation. The 'humans' in eve are actually a race of super giants. proof
Andreya Direct Intent	Posted - 2009.05.25 08:00:00 - [89] Originally by: Durzel Whilst you can't obviously have ships that work like real ones in terms of armament (i.e. in the real World if you did manage to hit a rowing boat with a torpedo it would be obliterated, it wouldn't take less damage because it's small) you could make weapons at least feel more rewarding as you go up in ship size. I'd like to see lasers that look like they do in those promo vids, right now battleship guns don't really look or sound that impressive. no, because that would make me not want to enjoy my speedy little ships, because everyone would be just going bigger and bigger, taking away all strategy in the game _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
Vain Eldritch Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.25 09:59:00 - [90] Originally by: Mort Eveson Originally by: Vain Eldritch Also, why are there no crew numbers in the ship info'...? A titan-class ship must have at least 10,000 crew surely, and a battleship sveral hundred. Even a frig' must have several crew and officers. As I see it, in my imagination, my character is the captain on the bridge barking orders ("Hard to port! Roll 92 degrees port yaw! Fire starboard cannons!"; "Navigation! Plot us a course out of here!", etc ). I hope one day we can see our characters on the bridge with crew milling about... But in EVE your captain isn't. He's floating inside his pod goo controlling the ship with his mind. Yuk... I'm more in line with Clear Skys on this one - only with hundreds of crew members as opposed to three.



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