Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
JAME5 KIRK
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 06:41:00 -
[1]
After briefly perusing several genre specific encyclopedia's and then using eve's new view item tool, one thing stands out to me. EVE's ships are huge compared to other genre's and have relatively little weaponry (i know this makes for easier gameplay). The orca for example is the size of a star destroyer (victory class original movie), yet these ship are relatively easy to build. Even a shuttle is 40m long thats the size of 3 articulated lorries (nearly). Does anyone think a rescaling of ships may be in order to make small ships small and the bigger ships bigger etc.
input appreciated.
|
Leiara Knight
Gallente The Oblivion Guard
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 06:52:00 -
[2]
Hi James. I'm glad we can have this discussion.
|
Anubis Xian
Reavers
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 07:15:00 -
[3]
You should have been here when stations didn't look big enough to handle one battleship, much less hundreds.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
|
Warscythe Prime
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 07:32:00 -
[4]
Light drones are also 30m long
|
SuperNova221
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 07:39:00 -
[5]
It's secretly a pre-nerf to walking in stations for after they allow you to walk onto your ship to dock, it's to **** you off by taking to long to walk around it!
|
Shereza
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 07:41:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Warscythe Prime Light drones are also 30m long
They sure do pack up good then, seeing as they only take up five cubic meters in the drone bay. ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
Leiara Knight
Gallente The Oblivion Guard
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 07:45:00 -
[7]
Quite an interesting story behind it, actually. Back in the early days of Eve (mid-1980s) the star vessels were largely smaller and somewhat simpler of design. Indeed, it was a simpler time in general.
However, capsuleers wanted more: more systems, more power, more weaponry, and so on. Many were quite vocal in their complaints - with the notable exception of myself, whom greatly fears and respects the developers - and soon enough their wishes and cries were realised. With these new gifts, however, came a bitter and startling cost: size.
|
Emma Peil
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 07:55:00 -
[8]
I'm not sure...I think The Culture likely has bigger ships than Eve. It is a post-scarcity society so resources is not an issue.
As for Eve I like my 'S P A C E - O P E R A' really big. And epic.
|
Mira O'karr
Minmatar Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 08:29:00 -
[9]
why is it a problem?
|
TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance Blackguard Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 08:34:00 -
[10]
Why so big? Because its awesome. Look at this image of all the eve ships for scale.
|
|
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 08:58:00 -
[11]
It is difficult to get a true sense of scale in the game though mainly because the camera zoom is relative to whatever you're flying.
You can zoom all the way on a shuttle for example, then "Look At" a battleship and the camera will either end up inside it or will readjust to the "max zoomed in level when flying a battleship".
I realise technically the effort involved in texturing a battleship if you could zoom in with the same granularity as zooming in on a shuttle, but even so it does take you out of the game somewhat when you "look at" different ships when in space.
|
Nico Terces
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 09:30:00 -
[12]
What I dont understand is how projectile size scales to range... I mean a proper artillery cannon can fire say what, 40 km distance on earth, which is in a parabolic trajectory.
Now, our eve guns fire like 50 km without advanced skills and technology... That's not very far in space, where there's almost no gravity or friction.
Basically I would like to see the distances increased by a factor 10 on everything, range, falloff, speed, whatever. Just to make the scales a bit more decent. It also makes me at least think that space-enterprising humanity did find some technological improvements on weaponry.
|
Sylar McIntyr
Caldari Konstrukteure der Zukunft AAA Citizens
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 09:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nico Terces
...
Now, our eve guns fire like 50 km without advanced skills and technology... That's not very far in space, where there's almost no gravity or friction.
...
Well, gravity is not restricted to planets and ist not like duct tape and sracp metal make good sniper weapons
Anyway i would appreciate mor guns (visually only, NO ingame effect) for mor lights and so ________________________________________________
Making space dangerous again ! |
Warrio
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 09:48:00 -
[14]
Why would you consider Eve to be "wrong" and the others such as Star Wars to be right? More people have put more collective time into adjusting and creating the story of Eve than into those other imaginary spaceship worlds so I'd say; Why are the ships in Star Wars and the like so small? sXe |
TraininVain
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 09:51:00 -
[15]
I kind of like the scale of everything. It's quite impressive when you fly close to something.
The only real problems I have with scale are when your ship spins around like origami getting washed down a drain.
|
Nico Terces
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 10:00:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Nico Terces on 13/05/2009 10:01:33 Edited by: Nico Terces on 13/05/2009 10:00:46
Originally by: Sylar McIntyr
Well, gravity is not restricted to planets and ist not like duct tape and sracp metal make good sniper weapons
Anyway i would appreciate mor guns (visually only, NO ingame effect) for mor lights and so
Yeah that you get like 2 guns added to one highslot. They're actually 1 gun, but do both shoot. They're also linked in miss-chance and hitchance, and damage is received as if u get shot by 1 gunslot. Nothing changes apart from the feeling that you're loaded to your teeth and beyond :D
And I know there's gravity everywhere, but those scrapmetal-ducttape gunbuilders do have the ability to make warpdrives and doomsday devices. Is it so hard to make a proper rifle? :P
|
Leiara Knight
Gallente The Oblivion Guard
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 10:05:00 -
[17]
That's why Almighty Zeus gave you the gift of imagination.
|
Schayol Sunkeeper
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 10:34:00 -
[18]
the only thing that bugs me about eve spacecraft is the lack of flak. it gets really silly when you look at post battleship size ships. a titan with decent weaponry ? noooooooo hurr durr 6 highslots only durr. okay it's a gameplay issue. because the way it would be realistic, there would be no use for sub battleship sized vessels anymore.
as for star wars ships: they are about the same size than eve ships. ISD's are about the size of eve battleships and are used in a similar way. the executor class SSD is about the same size than eve titans. fightercrafts are a lot smaller than eve drones though, but that's mainly because they need to be very VERY fast to dodge flak fire and hit weak spots on enemy ships. since we don't have any flak whatsoever in eve for above reasons, there is no need for ultra small fast ships. drones do the job good enough.
as for weapon ranges. in space there is no friction, so ballistic weapons ( everything except lasers ) should have no max range. however there are other things that need to be considered ( heavy guessing goes in here ):
a) targeting systems may have a range. space is mainly a large area of blank black space with a few yellow dots on it. it is incredibly difficult to spot anything in it. try for once on a empty spot to find a friends ship that is 100+ km away from you, with your interface off. if you can't see it, you can't hit it b) guns may not aimed accurate enough. simply because of mechanical reasons, if you for example only can adjust the gun in half degree steps, there is a given max range in which a ship can hide between that half of degree.
c) missiles may need a self destruct button. okay missiles are guided, self propelled bombs. since they won't brake ever in space, it's maybe not a good idea to leave missed missiles floating in space, they may hit something anytime. so there maybe is a self destruct function after fuel ran out. d) lasers may dissolve after time, hybrids may destabilize after time, as in: the projectile slowly loses it's "charge"
e) gravity effects of nearby planets / stars may affect the flight path to the point where you can't hit over a certain range ( everything beside missiles ) f) angular velocity may become too high to predict forestalling accurately enough ( aiming at where the target will be, instead of where it is )
g) recoil / vibration of kinetic weaponry ( everything beside lasers ) may become too much for stabilising systems to compensate ( seems good to me because we in fact HAVE stabilisers for hybrids and projectiles )
this post is too long
|
Tesh Sevateem
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 10:34:00 -
[19]
It annoys me a bit that our ships are so immensely huge. Sometimes, it looks as if the ship model was designed with a specific scale in mind. Then when the skin was applied, little tiny windows were added making the ship look, perhaps, 10 times bigger. I have a hard time imagining the sheer size of a Cruiser - let alone a Dreadnought. There really is no reason to make them so huge - better to make frigates rather small - perhaps 8-10 meters instead of the current 40. A super-duper huge ship should be no more than one kilometer in length.
Do you have any idea how much it would cost to create an advanced ship 13 kilometres long, containing facilities for thousands of crew members and electronic systems?
A car today may cost $10,000.00. How much does the steering wheel cost? How much does the exhaust pipe cost? A car is about 3 meters long. Now imagine a frigate being 15 times as big. How much does the paper bin in your captain's office cost? How much does the ceiling fan in your captain's bedroom cost? The problem is that with a cost of perhaps 30,000.00 ISK for a frigate, the price for a pack of 6 eggs in the local supermarket would be impossible to even measure in ISK "cents". A frigate which is 40 meters long would have to cost many, many millions. Otherwise, the economic system only works on a certain size object and larger.
I know it's a game, but to me, the immensely huge size of ships doesn't add anything "cool" or whatever - it just adds distance to the illusion. I'd personally love to see a reduction of the ship sizes by a factor 10. Ship models can be kept, they "just" need a new skin, and all stat values that involve the size of a ship or module reduced by a factor 10. It's still not a problem to shoot 40km with artillery.
|
Tuncan
Minmatar Mortis Angelus The Church.
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 10:43:00 -
[20]
You have a crew for all ships. Shuttles are the only ships that are used by 1 pilot.
So if a frigs is 10 meters that would be an orgy =)
|
|
Schayol Sunkeeper
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 10:54:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tesh Sevateem text goes in here
most frigades are only a bit larger than modern civilian aircraft. so they would definately purchasable, if you got some thousand planets to fuel your economy
also players are portrayed as half gods for beeing able to use the pod system so you can assume "we" are in the upper class of civilisation
|
GyokZoli
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 10:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: TimMc Why so big? Because its awesome. Look at this image of all the eve ships for scale.
Hmm, what are these ships and where can be found?
Eidolon, Phantom, Visitant, Specter, Wraith
Are these sleeper ships?
|
Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 10:58:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Tippia on 13/05/2009 10:59:35
Originally by: Tesh Sevateem Now imagine a frigate being 15 times as big. How much does the paper bin in your captain's office cost? How much does the ceiling fan in your captain's bedroom cost? The problem is that with a cost of perhaps 30,000.00 ISK for a frigate, the price for a pack of 6 eggs in the local supermarket would be impossible to even measure in ISK "cents".
I'm fairly certain that the lore explains this by saying that it's called Interstellar Credits for a reason: you use it for the kinds of large-scale economy that exists between solar systems and planets, not as something you use to pop down to the shop for a pack of smokes.
…well, barring that silly "go fetch me some smokes" L1 mission, of course
Originally by: GyokZoli Hmm, what are these ships and where can be found?
Eidolon, Phantom, Visitant, Specter, Wraith
Are these sleeper ships?
Jove. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Jita Jenn
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 11:15:00 -
[24]
I actually like the scale of ships in EVE. What bugs me is the size of turrets compared to the ships they're on. Small guns look ok on destroyers but look ridiculous on frigs (Rifters are a good example). Medium guns a bit small on battlecruisers and look ok on cruisers. Large guns are way too small on battleships. Not sure what guns look like on bigger ships but I'd say it's a similar situation.
|
Irida Mershkov
Gallente War is Bliss
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 11:22:00 -
[25]
The thing that bugs me the most, is that frigates, which are well, frigates, and are pretty big, a Rifter is about the size of a 747 if I remember correctly. Yet, they maneuver like fighters.
|
Kazang
Gallente Wrecking Shots
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 11:30:00 -
[26]
Your called JAME5 KIRK so im going to assume your familiar with star trek, and how big those ships are? How many guns did the Enterprize have? Only 2 forward and 2 aft if i remember correctly, but big, ****ing huge lazers. The Enterprize isn't a battleship class craft, its more of a large crusier, and is 600 odd metres long which is about the size of a small BS in EVE, a raven is around 600 metres long.
That is more the scale eve was going for, star wars uses a different scale totally, the larger ships needed lots of small guns since the smaller (one man lol) ships where so imba that they could take out entire stations with one shot so the smaller guns where needed to take out the small ships.
Eve ships are so big and realistic in the way that they are not designed with gaping weaknesses, so that small one man craft similar to a light drone EVE would barely scratch the larger craft. Consider aswell that an EVE artillery barrel can be 1400mm in bore for a ship length of 1000m, and compare that to a modern sea faring Battleships with around 600mm cannons, with the ships up to 300m long. Which would have 4-8 batteries of the large guns. The proportions seem pretty good to me based on realistic info.
Kazang
|
Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 11:48:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tesh Sevateem
A car today may cost $10,000.00. How much does the steering wheel cost? How much does the exhaust pipe cost? A car is about 3 meters long. Now imagine a frigate being 15 times as big. How much does the paper bin in your captain's office cost? How much does the ceiling fan in your captain's bedroom cost? The problem is that with a cost of perhaps 30,000.00 ISK for a frigate, the price for a pack of 6 eggs in the local supermarket would be impossible to even measure in ISK "cents". A frigate which is 40 meters long would have to cost many, many millions. Otherwise, the economic system only works on a certain size object and larger.
There is a reason for this. Isk are not used locally as currency. Each planet has their own currency which is perhaps 10.000 to 1 isk. This is all explained in the backstory/chronicles. ==================================================
I should really get a sig. |
SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 11:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: TimMc Why so big? Because its awesome. Look at this image of all the eve ships for scale.
That has to be the most awesome thing I have EVAR seen.
I want a 2 meters high poster of that __________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
Meiyang Lee
Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 12:02:00 -
[29]
Originally by: JAME5 KIRK After briefly perusing several genre specific encyclopedia's and then using eve's new view item tool, one thing stands out to me. EVE's ships are huge compared to other genre's and have relatively little weaponry (i know this makes for easier gameplay). The orca for example is the size of a star destroyer (victory class original movie), yet these ship are relatively easy to build. Even a shuttle is 40m long thats the size of 3 articulated lorries (nearly). Does anyone think a rescaling of ships may be in order to make small ships small and the bigger ships bigger etc.
input appreciated.
For fun and profit, because it's awesome.
There are settings that use larger (and also MUCH larger vessels) for their starships, so EVE's aren't exactly exceptional.
Culture GSVs range from dozens to hundreds of kilometres in length, they are home to billions of people and carry the most advanced AIs imaginable.
Warhammer 40,000 starships of the line range from a mile to about 5 miles in length with crews in the 10s of thousands and guns that fire shells the size of buildings and torpedoes the size of skysc****rs. (ie. EVE weapons are downright small-fry to these ships)
even in settings that generally use smaller ships (Star Trek: Voyager for instance) there are much larger ships around. Borg Cubes and Saurian City ships among others. Or Babylon 5 Deep Space Explorer ships. (Or Vorlon/Shadow Planetkillers)
|
Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 12:45:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Jagga Spikes on 13/05/2009 12:45:11 game balance. that's that.
just think of the fun having 1000 meter long BS with a proportional cargo space to a 60 meter frigate. 600,000 m3, anyone?
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |