Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol Total Comfort
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 21:48:00 -
[1]
WTZ killed PVP outside of 0.0.
It really, actually did.
Why?
Because the amount of agility/scanres tweaks we have to deal with are making EVE an experiment in fittings and lock times instead of something that should be dealt with by CHASING A TARGET.
You can't chase a target to kill it anymore. If the target warps faster than you he's gonna get away. If the target aligns faster than you can lock he's gonna get away. If the target is lucky and fits one WCS to his ship, you manage to point him and he warps to a gate, the nerf to his ship means that he's gonna survive the trip to the next gate, jump through and suprise, he's gonna get away.
Bring TRAVEL TIME back to EVE. Make people have to do something other than warp/jump. Approach is nigh an option used hardly anymore. Because of that the people who are after fights in lowsec aren't having the accessibility to them and as long as people are whining about lock/lag/aspect on target we're gonna have to keep rebalancing until players are happy.
Seriously, remove WTZ and figure out some way to implement this. I suggest you keep the "WTZ" option, but I am going to say make it so the target has a chance to land anywhere within 15km of the target. That means unless you're warping to a STATION you're probably not going to make it. This would at least give us the appearance of a potential to fight.
Another suggestion I have would be to make WTZ much like the warp to 15km, only if you warp to a bookmark it scatters your warpin and no matter what warp to option you select under a bookmark, it scrambles your warp and causes you to land within 15km of the bookmark from any direction. That potentially puts insta-warpers off by 30km from a gate.
Anyway, just a suggestion.
|
Zostera
Minmatar Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 22:18:00 -
[2]
While I agree that gate choke points may well get worse with the latest patch I disagree with this as a solution.
Scattering a fleet across 30km of space has some pretty serious repercussions for fleet sniping and remote repping.
Zos
Vote Mazz 09 CSM |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol Total Comfort
|
Posted - 2009.05.13 22:22:00 -
[3]
I agree too, but I've gotta post something to get some discussion started [my intention], or else people will just consider it a whine.
|
Verx Interis
Amarr Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 00:11:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Verx Interis on 14/05/2009 00:12:58 I agree with the underlying problem, but I also don't think that'd be a good solution.
It especially killed lowsec because without war/FW, you're going to have slow lockers, so even a nanoed BC can get through a lot of lowsec camps.
Without a bubble, there's basically no way to catch anything frigate sized, and even cruisers can get away from interceptors because of lag.
My solution would just be to go back to warp to 15km, or have it warp to 10km, and find some way to make BM's not work as instas.. however that would be. Could just have a permanent invisible bubble-like object that surrounds the gate 15/10km in every direction that pulls you out of warp on its edge if you were to land anywhere inside it.
Edit: Above should only apply to gates, stations and belts should just be to 0. ---- Logins required for this post: 382516 |
WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 00:21:00 -
[5]
Ive often wondered if making dead space prevent not just warping in but also out something to consider. It would certainly make militia plex's an interesting place. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
|
Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 02:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Typhado3 on 14/05/2009 02:12:45 I like how it is at the moment mostly cause I'm a carebear but it makes low sec safer than 0.0 and more dangerous than high sec. Right now carebears actually stand a chance in low sec if they fit right and are active and don't screw up. If you make it possible for any solo bs player to lock down every ship that comes his way low sec is gonna be suicide.
I've flown through low sec plenty of times usually with wcs, cloaks and inertia stabs. And each one of these have saved my ass plenty of times and usually by the skin of my teath. I've been scrammed plenty of times hauling stuff back and forth and if any of those where hic's (or I didn't have my wcs) I would have died.
Yet I keep hearing about pirates saying it's impossible to catch ppl out there and how everything can warp faster than you can lock. The problem I think is there is people expect to be able to get the same rewards soloing as they would in gangs. If you wanna solo there are gonna be a lot of targets you aren't gonna catch or a lot of targets you aren't gonna be able to kill.
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
Clair Bear
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 03:08:00 -
[7]
Rancer: 55 ships destroyed in the last 24 hours.
Yup, lowsec PvP is deader than a doornail.
And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question? |
Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 04:04:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 14/05/2009 04:05:02 Aww the poor little piwate can't catch people to gank.
If you put some effort into it you can catch people. You can't always catch everyone, but that's the nature of the game. Seriously, if you want PVP, try getting into a FIGHT where they, you know, lock you and shoot back instead of just trying to run away and getting blasted.
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
Renarla
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 04:14:00 -
[9]
Insta problem should be easy to fix, don't allow bookmarks on the same grid as a gate. (250km) However, on another note, I now have one of those annoying sigs. |
Verx Interis
Amarr Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 04:21:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Renarla Insta problem should be easy to fix, don't allow bookmarks on the same grid as a gate. (250km)
Sniper spots, recon spots.. You need BMs on gate grids. ---- Logins required for this post: 144469 |
|
Muskaos
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 13:18:00 -
[11]
Remove WTZ and you go back to what caused WTZ to be introduced in the first place: thousands of gate bookmarks for traveling around. And the resultant lag.
|
D3stroyer
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 13:45:00 -
[12]
The easy solution was always there:
Disallow BM's within a 200km radius of the Gates (simple bit of coding) Have the follow 3 rules in place:
0.0 space - WTZ (no rules in 0.0 ) 0.1-0.4 space - Warp to 5km (only a few rules in this space ) 0.5-1.0 space - Warp to 10km (care bear heaven )
|
Lt Angus
Caldari End Game. Dead End.
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 13:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Clair Bear Rancer: 55 ships destroyed in the last 24 hours.
Yup, lowsec PvP is deader than a doornail.
Used to be 95 an hour please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 14:25:00 -
[14]
You're an idiot, go away. We do not want insta book marks to come back.
They DO need to roll back the agility buffs though since ships warp too fast. Or if you don't want to effect agility in combat, do something else to add some delay to warping, like a fixed 2 second timer AFTER reaching warp alignment.
|
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 14:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: D3stroyer The easy solution was always there:
Disallow BM's within a 200km radius of the Gates (simple bit of coding) Have the follow 3 rules in place:
0.0 space - WTZ (no rules in 0.0 ) 0.1-0.4 space - Warp to 5km (only a few rules in this space ) 0.5-1.0 space - Warp to 10km (suicide ganker heaven )
fixed it for you. at the moment they would only catch people on autopilot. then you can basically screw any industrial. ever been to sivala/uedama, niarja/madirmilire lately?
|
fkingfurious
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:09:00 -
[16]
WTZ was, is and forever will be one of the most awesome things CCP ever did.
Removing WTZ would have no effect on gamepley unless you also removed all BM's within about 200KM of any warpable celestial, as the size of some celestials means that warping to a 200KM BM at 100KM can land you at jump/dock range (the region stargates are a prime example of this). If you didnt do this we would simply go back to the bad old days of everyone having hundreds, sometimes THOUSANDS of insta bookmarks.
And if we couldn't have BM's a lot of people would walk away form the game.
Not because of PvP or it becoming too hard to avoid getting ganked or any of that crap.
The simple fact is that travelling 15km to every stargate and station was unbelievably, frustratingly, mind numblingly ****ing TEDIOUS. Anyone who wants to go back to that needs their ****ing head checked.
|
Ulstan
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:13:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ulstan on 14/05/2009 15:14:21 WTZ kills low sec pvp only if all pvp in lowsec happens only at gates, IE people simply passing through low sec on their way to somewhere else
And that would be the real problem behind low sec PvP being dead. But that's *not* the only pvp that happens in low sec if you know where to look.
Anyway, there was never a time when everyone in EVE always slowboated 15km to the gates. Everyone used instant bookmarks. If they didn't have instant bookmarks they'd use multiple MWD's :D
You are pining for a time that never existed.
|
Xelios
Minmatar Broski Enterprises Avarice.
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:13:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lt Angus
Originally by: Clair Bear Rancer: 55 ships destroyed in the last 24 hours.
Yup, lowsec PvP is deader than a doornail.
Used to be 95 an hour
Yeah, then everyone clued into the fact that it was a death trap and set their autopilot to avoid it.
A HIC with remote sensor boosters on him will point anything bigger than a frig before it can warp, and there's no counter to that except to try a run back to the gate. With a little teamwork low sec pirating at gates can still be effective.
The alternative is to remove WTZ, which makes it all but impossible to get through a camped low sec gate and has a detrimental effect on everyone in the game. Don't think it's a worthwhile trade off.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 15:17:00 -
[19]
WTS: 4000 BM SET FOR LONETREK. 50M A PIECE !!! COME FAST
So: no. WTZ = no bookmarks. You reintroduce minimum warp distance = you reintroduce gate BM sets.
Quote: Bring TRAVEL TIME back to EVE.
Im not sure if you make more than 20 jumps daily. I do. Actually well over 200-300. Adding another time to boring travel crap is stupid. You know some people have life outside of this game
|
4THELULZ
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 17:02:00 -
[20]
Hell yeah gate camp online, that's totally what I want to play.
|
|
Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 17:19:00 -
[21]
Do you have any idea how painful traveling 70m/s in a hulk 15km to a gate would be? Do you have any idea how painful it would be to make 12 jumps in those circumstances? ____________________ CCP: Catering to the cowards of a cold, harsh universe since November, 2006. |
D3stroyer
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 17:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Allen Ramses Do you have any idea how painful traveling 70m/s in a hulk 15km to a gate would be? Do you have any idea how painful it would be to make 12 jumps in those circumstances?
Welcome to Eve before Carebear mode got introduced
|
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 18:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: D3stroyer
Originally by: Allen Ramses Do you have any idea how painful traveling 70m/s in a hulk 15km to a gate would be? Do you have any idea how painful it would be to make 12 jumps in those circumstances?
Welcome to Eve before Carebear mode got introduced
so you are just another of those mindless gank folks out there. understood you want easier kills.
|
Ulstan
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 18:34:00 -
[24]
Originally by: D3stroyer
Originally by: Allen Ramses Do you have any idea how painful traveling 70m/s in a hulk 15km to a gate would be? Do you have any idea how painful it would be to make 12 jumps in those circumstances?
Welcome to Eve as played by morons who didn't have insta jump bookmarks
\
Fixed your post.
This magical fantasy land where everyone dropped 15km away from a gate and slowboated there way to the gate never existed.
Only people without a clue did that - the same people who would autopilot through dangerous territory today. Everyone else used insta jumping bookmarks. That's why it was changed in the first place.
So, if you simply revert the WTZ, you'd roll back to the days of instajumping bookmarks all over. Unless you somehow banned bookmarks within 200km of a gate, which would *radically* change EVE.
In short, the 'revert WTZ' crew are asking for an EVE that never existed in the first place.
|
D3stroyer
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 18:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: D3stroyer
Originally by: Allen Ramses Do you have any idea how painful traveling 70m/s in a hulk 15km to a gate would be? Do you have any idea how painful it would be to make 12 jumps in those circumstances?
Welcome to Eve before Carebear mode got introduced
so you are just another of those mindless gank folks out there. understood you want easier kills.
On the contrary - I've been with this game since late '03, had the joys of owning 5k+ BM's to make moving around easier, done my fair share of carebear rubbish & pirating but even I was against this WTZ rubbish!! And that was long before I did the low sec yarrage
Better options (or ideas) were submitted along with solutions to counter Ganking problems in Highsec yet CCP chose to ignore those and pander to the carebears & whiners who feel it was their god given right to travel with immunity throughout the Eve Universe.
All ships have slots (except freighters, but they got the HP buffer) yet if ppl choose to slap cargo expanders and god knows what else to move as much as possible instead of fitting for defence (no space is safe space in Eve), then that's your problem & not ours.
There's better solutions out there than the current WTZ rubbish that's in place.
\rant off
|
Dictum Factum
Dark-Rising
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 18:46:00 -
[26]
Perhaps it would be easier to just get rid of warp drives completely. That would make those that miss the feeling of "the vastness of space" happy. It would also be a way to get pvp anywhere in the system as all you would have to do is head off toward "something" and you may, eventually, find another ship.
|
Crewman Jenkins
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 20:58:00 -
[27]
I have always been uncomfortable with the lack of sub-warp travel. Its nice to have warp to zero, I remember the stacks and stacks of bookmarks, but I wish there was some reason for ships to travel at regular speeds for significant distances..15km to me is even a little short. However, if this was required there would have to be alot of other changes to balance, otherwise there would be a slaughter of haulers. I'm afraid we are stuck with the current system.
|
Pvt Public7
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2009.05.14 23:06:00 -
[28]
Hictor bubbles in hisec imo. --- SWA was here IAC is a loser |
Anri
O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.05.15 04:26:00 -
[29]
My 2 isk:
Well since the whole reason that warp to zero was not implemented at release and why CCP was reluctant to add it is due to the very issue the OP is talking about. There is very little "used" space for encounters in a system. This was also a time when warp disruption bubbles did not exist.
The reason CCP finally implemented warp to zero was because everyone was making bookmarks 15km behind the gate/station/whatever to effectively get the same effect as warp to zero. Sometimes one for each approach angle, meaning a heck of a lot of data in the database.
The thing is that CCP can have the best of both. Keep warp to zero, but use half the effect of a dictor bubble on gates/stations/whatever. Allow ships to warp out, but not warp in. This will make all ships have to slowboat/mwd/ab that last 15km. There will be no reason to make bookmarks because if you will drop out of warp within 15km of the gate/station/whatever you will end up at the edge of the bubble.
It might slightly diminish the value of bubbles in nullsec. But they will still be needed when you are camping the far side of the gate, and that would be optimal anyways, you have an advantage if they are jumping into you. Also the size of the bubbles could be adjusted if needed.
The question is whether CCP feels that hisec and losec need to be more dangerous. The fact that they do not allow bubbles to be used in those areas probably means no.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.05.15 08:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Pvt Public7 Hictor bubbles in hisec imo.
If this doesn't trigger CONCORD, it's overpowered. If it does, say goodbye to your ship the moment any neutral comes near you. --- 20:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |