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Tekki Sandan
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:06:00 -
[1]
Local chat in 0.0 at the moment is being used as an early warning system for people to know when hostiles are comming. It was not the intention of the system to be used as an early warning system as it is currently.
0.0 Is ment to have a serious danger aspect and at the moment there is very little danger for the massive rewards of the isk farmers that are all over 0.0.
My suggestion is a 2 minute delay on local chat updating. This will make ratters have to pay attention to intel channels, there directional scanner and also make them have to align, have warp outs and safe spots. Thus making it proper gameplay other than something you can do semi afk over 2-3 accounts.
Also, it would cut down on the lag generated by the constant updates. And I'm sure most will agree less lag would be a welcome sight in eve.
As a result CCP dont have to go and change the way rats function to make it more challenging it will already be more challenging if this change is brought into effect.
Summary:
2minute local chat update delay. Allowing for 0.0 to function as intended and stop the local chat window being used as an early warning system.
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Evlyna
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:15:00 -
[2]
Here we go... again.
No! Not until a mechanic is introduced OTHER than spamming the scan button every 5 seconds.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:28:00 -
[3]
Yeah I hear 0.0 is positively overflowing with "ISK farmers".
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Nebularis
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:27:00 -
[4]
Hmm very transparent...
What you really mean is that you want a way to enter a system and get the jump on ratters before they warp off to a safe spot.
I have one thing to say to this: Lrn2probe
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:36:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Nebularis Hmm very transparent...
What you really mean is that you want a way to enter a system and get the jump on ratters before they warp off to a safe spot.
I have one thing to say to this: Lrn2probe
New ratting macros/bots (whatever you call em) warp your ship to safespot and cloak as soon as local jumps by set amount of people (be it even +1 new local). Thus "learn2probe" doesnt work against em at all. Only way you can catch em is either pray he gets scrambled by rats (some farmers use WCS tho) or catch him at belt when he is still landing.
bots>human skills unfortunately.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.05.14 17:36:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Nebularis Hmm very transparent...
What you really mean is that you want a way to enter a system and get the jump on ratters before they warp off to a safe spot.
I have one thing to say to this: Lrn2probe
New ratting macros/bots (whatever you call em) warp your ship to safespot and cloak as soon as local jumps by set amount of people (be it even +1 new local). Thus "learn2probe" doesnt work against em at all. Only way you can catch em is either pray he gets scrambled by rats (some farmers use WCS tho) or catch him at belt when he is still landing.
bots>human skills unfortunately.
Great, then let's remove local so all legitimate players can click scan every five seconds even though the macros will soon automate that as well.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
To mare
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Posted - 2009.05.14 17:44:00 -
[7]
Edited by: To mare on 14/05/2009 17:46:41 there are other people in 0.0 that are not isk farmers and they wont be happy getting their ratting/mission ships blowed every time a hostile gang jump in.
and no scanner isnt a answer making isk is already boring enough no need extra hassle to keep spamming scan button
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Grista
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Posted - 2009.05.14 20:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: To mare Edited by: To mare on 14/05/2009 17:50:41 there are other people in 0.0 that are not isk farmers and they wont be happy getting their ratting/mission ships blowed every time a hostile gang jump in.
and no scanner isnt a answer making isk is already boring enough no need extra hassle to keep spamming scan button.
if you remove local (2 min delay its like removing it) isk farmers bot will adapt with new macros that check scanner and you wont be able to catch them anyway while the ppl that want to play fairly (w/o bots) will leave the place cause its not more worth to stay there so you will lose even more possible targets.
This is spot on. If 0.0 ever gets delayed local, I simply won't rat anymore.
Also, looking at killboards of many 0.0 alliances, it's very apparent there are plenty of targets out there waiting to be killed who don't have their eyes glued to local.
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.05.14 20:47:00 -
[9]
fact is 0.0 is almost safer than highsec, just pay attention to local and make 50 mill an hour ratting with close to no chance of being caought, it shouldnt be that way
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Tekki Sandan
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:20:00 -
[10]
Originally by: arbiter reborn fact is 0.0 is almost safer than highsec, just pay attention to local and make 50 mill an hour ratting with close to no chance of being caought, it shouldnt be that way
I agree with this statment. 0.0 should not be as it is now.
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Thercon Jair
Minmatar Nex Exercitus Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:32:00 -
[11]
Yes, it is, again, a thing that needs careful thought before implement something new.
There were once system scanning arrays. How if you would make it, that, if you have a certain sovereignity level, the scanning array would act as kind of an early warning system. But only if you are in the system itself.
And as for new bots using the directional scanner to warp off when they pick something up. Leave an empty ship somewhere in system, at a POS, and the bot would cloak up and stop ratting. You couldn't kill him, but you'd at least keep him from ratting. Or, at least, you could catch them with cloaking ships, and then send in a non cloaker with DPS to kill him off.
It's no fun to get cursed at in chinese and made fun of, because you simply can't catch them. Best thing I accomplished was accidentally running into a hauler with 4 giant secure cans filled to the brim with paradise cruise missiles. The ratters themselves don't need to travel and can stay in a system, warp off and cloak up as soon as something enters local.
I mean, my god, I even find it myself ridiculous how easily you can avoid being catched at all.
But, probably, farmers would adapt and search for a nice backwater system with 1-2 gates and just put cloaked alts at the gates...
*sighs* it's not an easy issue. Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
Fulber
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: arbiter reborn fact is 0.0 is almost safer than highsec, just pay attention to local and make 50 mill an hour ratting with close to no chance of being caought, it shouldnt be that way
You're right, 0.0 is almost as safe as highsec.
So, remind us all what Control Towers, Dreadnaughts and Sovereignty are for. |
Altair Mogwa
Amok.
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:45:00 -
[13]
Talk about an uber boost to recons/coverts if this ever happened.
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Lady Aja
Caldari Eradication Project
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Posted - 2009.05.15 10:20:00 -
[14]
sad sad sad troll..
what works for you also works against you.
the quick roaming gang now becoem a crawl as you search hi n low for a target..
Jump into system > scan/probe > wait.. scan.. wait.. scan wait.. ( 5 minutes later ) dammit system is empty...
now youre happily flying along in 0.0.. and you dont see anyone in local coz its in delay mode... youwarp to the gate. a hic decloaks and drops a bubble, followed by his mates in recons. you jump system.. you cant tell he also has mates on other side because some aggro **** asked for delayed mode in 0.0
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.05.15 10:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lady Aja sad sad sad troll..
what works for you also works against you.
the quick roaming gang now becoem a crawl as you search hi n low for a target..
Jump into system > scan/probe > wait.. scan.. wait.. scan wait.. ( 5 minutes later ) dammit system is empty...
now youre happily flying along in 0.0.. and you dont see anyone in local coz its in delay mode... youwarp to the gate. a hic decloaks and drops a bubble, followed by his mates in recons. you jump system.. you cant tell he also has mates on other side because some aggro **** asked for delayed mode in 0.0
and whats so bad about it? defenders prepared trap = kudos to them.
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Selassie M
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Posted - 2009.05.15 10:54:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Selassie M on 15/05/2009 10:54:32 It's ideas like this that, if applied, that break completely a game.
Talking of massive reward someone makes by farming in 0.0, in average systems it must be about 10M to 20hour.
I don't call that a massive reward, considering that not paying attention 5 minutes to local while you're reading a forum or such can lead to a quick death. And it happens eveyday.
Plus your idea would break the best part of eve imo, roaming with fast ships in hostile territory. How would you pick up a target? Seriously?
Gate fires, no idea who entered system, bubble up? Oh noes we bubbled a blue. Seriously, we see you're living in high sec and jealous of the isk you think we make in 0.0, which is untrue.
Sad sad troll.
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Stryker347
Caldari Hybrid Industrial
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Posted - 2009.05.15 10:58:00 -
[17]
No
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Elisabeth Dakar
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Posted - 2009.05.15 11:00:00 -
[18]
In the current state i dont think delayed local would work in 0.0 or lowsec. It worls fine in wormhole space because the are a few mechanics that differ from known space. That are:
- In wh-space you have to scan for every content that is available. Yur enemys have enough prewarn time to bring back your hulk to a save pos for example. You can not just use your directional scanner like in known space to determine the position of your targets. - Wh-space is still very empty. More empty than 0.0. - Entering a wh-system is pretty riskless because you spawn in jumping range of the wormhole. So its easy to have a first look into the system. - Connections to k-space are random. If you live in w-space you will never meet the same groups over and over again.
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Dart Sirius
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Posted - 2009.05.15 11:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Selassie M Edited by: Selassie M on 15/05/2009 10:54:32 It's ideas like this that, if applied, that break completely a game.
Talking of massive reward someone makes by farming in 0.0, in average systems it must be about 10M to 20hour.
I don't call that a massive reward, considering that not paying attention 5 minutes to local while you're reading a forum or such can lead to a quick death. And it happens eveyday.
Plus your idea would break the best part of eve imo, roaming with fast ships in hostile territory. How would you pick up a target? Seriously?
Gate fires, no idea who entered system, bubble up? Oh noes we bubbled a blue. Seriously, we see you're living in high sec and jealous of the isk you think we make in 0.0, which is untrue.
Sad sad troll.
I agree. This will break all 0.0 and make almost impossible to do anything there.
If you think you can make that much isk/hour with ratting then better go and try it yourself... the most of the systems in 0.0 are crap for ratting the better ones are always occupied and can feed max 1-2 players not like the unlimited LVL4 missions in safe highsec.
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Wacktopia
Infinity Miners Union Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
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Posted - 2009.05.15 11:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tekki Sandan Local chat in 0.0 at the moment is being used as an early warning system for people to know when hostiles are comming. It was not the intention of the system to be used as an early warning system as it is currently.
0.0 Is ment to have a serious danger aspect and at the moment there is very little danger for the massive rewards of the isk farmers that are all over 0.0.
My suggestion is a 2 minute delay on local chat updating. This will make ratters have to pay attention to intel channels, there directional scanner and also make them have to align, have warp outs and safe spots. Thus making it proper gameplay other than something you can do semi afk over 2-3 accounts.
Also, it would cut down on the lag generated by the constant updates. And I'm sure most will agree less lag would be a welcome sight in eve.
As a result CCP dont have to go and change the way rats function to make it more challenging it will already be more challenging if this change is brought into effect.
Summary:
2minute local chat update delay. Allowing for 0.0 to function as intended and stop the local chat window being used as an early warning system.
It's not that hard to catch people in 0.0. Perhaps if you are solo but not in a small team. Just gaurd up the gates and stick a bubble at the warp-in points for the belt they were in before going to their safe spot. They'll get bored and warp back to zero and then you pop them. Or alternatively probe them out.
Even if you did delay local by 2 minutes the "isk farmer" could just sit aligned to their safe spot and insta-warp the moment you appear in the belt? How would you deal with that?
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Verys
The Black Ops Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.15 11:35:00 -
[21]
Hello Mr. Sandan
I don't agree with a 2 minute delay to local but I think it could be subjected to change. As you propose now means that pvpers get a huge advantage over ratters as you can check the system within a blink and the ratters have to spam the scan button every second to check if there is a possible threat. This is neither fun or balanced.
The next best suggestion would be to have the directional scanner fully automated, this means you end up a same system as local only that you can't see who is flying it.
The only people you can't currently catch are people paying ATTENTION or botters, I have seen many people in my alliance getting killed by a solo HAC because they weren't paying attention to the game.
Oh and most people are paying attention because they don't want to lose their ships to some random guy getting easy kills in a belt, yes easy kills it's not really hard killing a battleship/battlecruiser in your HAC/Recon.
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Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.05.15 11:44:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 15/05/2009 11:46:10
This may be very selfish of me, but instead I would like cloaked ships to be removed from local entirely (unless the pilot chats, of course).
It really annoys me that the whole solar system can see I'm present even though I am cloaked.
Let My People Go |
Wacktopia
Infinity Miners Union Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
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Posted - 2009.05.15 11:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Poreuomai Edited by: Poreuomai on 15/05/2009 11:45:52
This may be very selfish of me, but instead I would like cloaked ships to be removed from local entirely (unless the pilot chats, of course).
It really annoys me that the whole solar system can see I'm present even though I am cloaked.
Joking, right?
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Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2009.05.15 11:51:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Poreuomai Edited by: Poreuomai on 15/05/2009 11:46:10
This may be very selfish of me, but instead I would like cloaked ships to be removed from local entirely (unless the pilot chats, of course).
It really annoys me that the whole solar system can see I'm present even though I am cloaked.
Then everyone would fly ships with cloaks. Heck if you were chased by a gang and you punched cloak midwarp to a safespot they would have no way of knowing where you went or if you just cloaked. Any local change has to treat all targets equally OR it has to come with penalties that offset any advantages.
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Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.05.18 08:35:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Wacktopia Joking, right?
No, I was serious when I said my idea was very selfish.
Let My People Go |
Zaheera
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.18 08:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Stryker347 No
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Vigaz
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Posted - 2009.05.18 09:11:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tekki Sandan Local chat in 0.0 at the moment is being used as an early warning system for people to know when hostiles are comming. It was not the intention of the system to be used as an early warning system as it is currently.
0.0 Is ment to have a serious danger aspect and at the moment there is very little danger for the massive rewards of the isk farmers that are all over 0.0.
My suggestion is a 2 minute delay on local chat updating. This will make ratters have to pay attention to intel channels, there directional scanner and also make them have to align, have warp outs and safe spots. Thus making it proper gameplay other than something you can do semi afk over 2-3 accounts.
Also, it would cut down on the lag generated by the constant updates. And I'm sure most will agree less lag would be a welcome sight in eve.
As a result CCP dont have to go and change the way rats function to make it more challenging it will already be more challenging if this change is brought into effect.
Summary:
2minute local chat update delay. Allowing for 0.0 to function as intended and stop the local chat window being used as an early warning system.
I would like to see delayed local chat in null sec, but 2 mins it's a lot of time. 30 secs delay should be tested in sisi.
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MukkBarovian
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Posted - 2009.05.18 09:25:00 -
[28]
Stations with windows.
A semi automated scanner.
Then fine.
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.05.18 09:26:00 -
[29]
No.
Local is fine, period.
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Lewyrus
Jugis Modo Utopia Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.05.18 10:34:00 -
[30]
Erm, no.
Not until we have a method of gaining similar level intel.
Also, might I ask you two thing: do you play this game with local minimized? Have you tried localless play other than w-space?
I'm seriously interested in this; does the make-local-delayed-in-0.0-or-everywhere bandwagon considering that it could backfire?
Originally by: Thercon Jair There were once system scanning arrays. How if you would make it, that, if you have a certain sovereignity level, the scanning array would act as kind of an early warning system. But only if you are in the system itself.
If you tie this to Sov somehow that would give defenders/sovholders an unfair advantage. And there are NPC regions as well.
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