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Dear CCP, do something about asteroid belts.

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Major Deviant	Posted - 2009.05.17 22:20:00 - [61] Originally by: FingerThief Originally by: Major Deviant @OP Even if you have never run a mision in your life do the following: a)Go to a system with lots of level 1 agents, no matter the corp/faction as long as you can use them. b)Request mision, cycling between agents till you find the right one checking for: c)mining in regural missions d) enjoy your solitary mining OR Train you exploration skills and scan for gravimetric sites. Mine away. What are asteroid belts for then ? Empty Scenery ? Please read thru the posts before telling me something I already have answered on page 1. I do scan, I do find 1 grav belt every 10 days in roughly 20 systems. Sorry for trying to help. I for one, when I mine, I only mine in missions and I have been doing since I calculated that it is more profitable than belts(as it is virtually uninterupted).
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.17 22:28:00 - [62] Well, in another thread you have a Dev boasting about clearing out belts before anyone else can get to them so it's unlikely they give a damn about it. Ps: we need a dedicated hazardous duty gas miner, particularly now.
Tractormech Caldari Fortune's Fools	Posted - 2009.05.17 22:42:00 - [63] Mining is broken and has been so for a long time. L4 missions are a better source of ore than high sec mining. Enough said. Its busted. Theres a reason all anyone ever mines anymore is trit. The market is broken for everything else. Refining loot and the way of access to ore both need to change. We've got macros destroying the market rampantly. I think the amount standings effect loot refining should be brought up drastically, or we need loot to refine into some other material other than ore.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.05.17 22:43:00 - [64] I wouldnt mind seeing more and more roids go vacant in the future, would force peopel out of empire eventually. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 19Apr09
Akor Flandres	Posted - 2009.05.17 23:34:00 - [65] There is lots of Ore in lowsec and 0.0 go there
shwarzkauph bullets with butterfly wings	Posted - 2009.05.17 23:41:00 - [66] Originally by: Akor Flandres There is lots of Ore in lowsec and 0.0 go there thanks for the insight, einstein u lose
Dodgy Past	Posted - 2009.05.18 00:35:00 - [67] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: FingerThief I do not think you actually grasp the reseeding mechanic. I understand it just fine, I just don't think it's a problem. The problem is that you refuse to leave your completely safe highsec and take on the risks required to get all those nice big competition-free asteroids in lowsec/0.0. If you weren't so afraid of risk, you would find that the respawn rates are just fine. And yes, highsec exists for a reason: to let new players learn the game mechanics, and the system works just fine for now. It's just fine to have small asteroids when all you have is a low-skill Bantam. Your problem is you want to have a high-end operation with multiple Hulks/Orcas/etc, but you refuse to leave the newbie tutorial systems. I just don't see things working like this though. Newer players stay newer for longer now because they're comparing with older and older characters with insane amounts of skill points. Do you expect sub 5 million SP characters to enjoy competing with 35 million SP characters plus their trusted mates with no protection? As a result a new character is stuck in high sec for a lot longer unless they want to subsume themselves in a much larger corporation, the one good thing that has slightly evened the balance has been wormholes.
WillageGirl Celtic Anarchy	Posted - 2009.05.18 01:06:00 - [68] ...so after years of waiting, when we're finally geting to a situation where natural resources are begining to be worth fighting over, you want to magically generate more resources instead of fighting for your right to use them? Why would we need to generate something else or something more when game already has ways to remedy the situation? Move to lowsec. / hire merc corp to keep your system free fro YOUR use / push rivaling corporations out of YOUR systems. Pick one and get to work. Only problems I can think of here is pilots using NPC corporations and wildly borked war dec. system we have. But then, developers time would be better spent in fixing actually broken features than adding something redundant to the game. Fighting for Our right to Cloak since 2004
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.05.18 01:28:00 - [69] Originally by: shwarzkauph Originally by: Akor Flandres There is lots of Ore in lowsec and 0.0 go there thanks for the insight, einstein no u The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
Lidirt AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.05.18 01:32:00 - [70] Originally by: Abrazzar There is an infinite amount of ore available. Not only in gravimetric sites but also in asteroids found in missions, cosmic anomalies and other exploration sites. IMHO, all mining should be moved to an exploration based system. I agree with the post you linked. I don't really care about the amount of available 'roids, however, the mechanics of belts currently is extremely unrealistic. They aren't belts, they're blobs. But then again ratting isn't extremely realistic either. Take a system with like a dozen+ belts... Why would there be up to 72 dudes sitting their in their ships at all the belts? ALL DAY LONG no less? You'd think there would only be a few running around looking for miners to kill or something.

Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.05.18 03:06:00 - [71] There is a paucity of ore in hisec because that's where everyone's mining. Should CCP arrange for more tritanium to spawn in hisec than already does spawn? Are you sure about your answer? Remember, the higher the price of a mineral the more people will be motivated to actually mine it. The main problems I see with the current mining model are that Veldspar is so bulky, and/or refines to produce so little tritanium, which means nullsec mining operations will skip Veldspar altogether since there is no economic incentive to mine it (especially with hauler spawns dropping tens of millions of tritanium right there in the belt). It's also a pity that refinery efficiency doesn't contribute to yields from POS refineries. The scarcity of veldspar in highsec is working in my favour at this point in time. I have no complaints. The anemic nature of system belts is working in my favour at this point, I have no complaints. Ideas I do support are reducing the number of unnamed T1 drops in missions, increasing the number of gravimetric sites available through exploration, and the introduction of a dedicated T2 gas harvesting hull (with resists and tank to handle a Sleeper spawn). There was a figure of 40% of minerals coming from reprocessed loot - I wonder how many of those reprocessed items were actually manufactured specifically for mineral compression? Would that 40% figure perhaps be reduced significantly if veldspar and tritanium could be economically harvested in nullsec (ie: reduce the volume of veldspar or increase the yield of tritanium, and allow character skills to affect the efficiency of POS refineries)?
Phelaen Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas	Posted - 2009.05.18 03:49:00 - [72] move to wh space.. bring a rorqual... check this out
Darkeen Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.18 03:59:00 - [73] "I wish to unsubscribe from this Troll based Newsletter". Originally by: Abrazzar There is an infinite amount of ore available. Not only in gravimetric sites but also in asteroids found in missions, cosmic anomalies and other exploration sites. IMHO, all mining should be moved to an exploration based system. I agree. Mark one agree for a Carebear. But I never have any issue minig cause I dont whine about mining in a single system and then complain when roids dont fall into my ship..... Heres a few tips: - move into a different region or at least one system over. WOW, look at the roids!!!! - Goto Lowsec or Zero sec - see step one above.
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.18 04:47:00 - [74] Originally by: Nova Fox I wouldnt mind seeing more and more roids go vacant in the future, would force peopel out of empire eventually. Again, what is the point of empire then ? The initial incentive to move to Lo or NullSec for mining was that you only could get rare minerals there. With the introduction of Drone Compounds the source of Zydrine has shifted from mining it in LoSec/NullSec to moving to the drone regions and collect it there. Game mechanic changed on one side ... but the other remained untouched. The problem with it all is that it's been broken for so long that almost nobody remembers how it's supposed to be and why things have been initially coded the way they are. FT
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.18 04:52:00 - [75] Originally by: WillageGirl ...so after years of waiting, when we're finally geting to a situation where natural resources are begining to be worth fighting over, you want to magically generate more resources instead of fighting for your right to use them? Natural resources in EVE-Online have always been worth fighting over ... I am not asking to redistribute ore ... but change the game mechanic that "refuels" them. To achieve "worth fighting over" CCP would need to turn off reseeding at all and introduce a finite amount of ore. Originally by: WillageGirl Why would we need to generate something else or something more when game already has ways to remedy the situation? Move to lowsec. / hire merc corp to keep your system free fro YOUR use / push rivaling corporations out of YOUR systems. Pick one and get to work. Because the game mechanic works that way currently. Either take it out ( finite amount ) or fix it. Remember ... the game mechanic was introduced at the start when there were 2500 players online with 30k accounts ... now we are 10x that and it has not changed. Originally by: WillageGirl Only problems I can think of here is pilots using NPC corporations and wildly borked war dec. system we have. But then, developers time would be better spent in fixing actually broken features than adding something redundant to the game. Redundant for you maybe. FT
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.05.18 04:59:00 - [76] Edited by: Tippia on 18/05/2009 05:00:54 Originally by: WillageGirl ...so after years of waiting, when we're finally geting to a situation where natural resources are begining to be worth fighting over, you want to magically generate more resources instead of fighting for your right to use them? Why would we need to generate something else or something more when game already has ways to remedy the situation? Move to lowsec. / hire merc corp to keep your system free fro YOUR use / push rivaling corporations out of YOUR systems. Pick one and get to work. Only problems I can think of here is pilots using NPC corporations and wildly borked war dec. system we have. But then, developers time would be better spent in fixing actually broken features than adding something redundant to the game. ^^ This one gets it. The ~~fact~~ that there's now scarcity (or, well… not fact, because there is no scarcity yet) is a good thing — it means competition; it means fun-fun-fun on the market; it makes highsec come alive and worth fighting for. The problem that needs to be solved is not one of introducing more asteroids — there are still more of those than is actually needed — but one of being able to solve those territorial disputes in face of the current meta-game. Ganks and Concord need to be revised; war deccing needs an overhaul; the ease of escaping combat needs to be looked at. Originally by: FingerThief To achieve "worth fighting over" CCP would need to turn off reseeding at all and introduce a finite amount of ore. No. All resources in EVE are infinite, and they are still worth fighting for. Originally by: FingerThief The problem with it all is that it's been broken for so long that almost nobody remembers how it's supposed to be and why things have been initially coded the way they are. No, you assume that the old days was how it was supposed to be, but how do you know? How can you be so sure that what we have now isn't the end goal of what they were aiming for: a highsec where resources are scares and fought over, and where the entrepreneurially minded can (easily) sidestep the whole problem and create small industry havens of their own? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.18 05:52:00 - [77] Originally by: Tippia ^^ This one gets it. The fact that there's now scarcity (or, wellà not fact, because there is no scarcity yet) is a good thing ù it means competition; it means fun-fun-fun on the market; it makes highsec come alive and worth fighting for. The problem that needs to be solved is not one of introducing more asteroids ù there are still more of those than is actually needed ù but one of being able to solve those territorial disputes in face of the current meta-game. Ganks and Concord need to be revised; war deccing needs an overhaul; the ease of escaping combat needs to be looked at. It would mean competition if you could actually do something against your competitors ( other miners ) to make their life miserable. At the moment it's just about who get's on faster after downtime. Originally by: Tippia No, you assume that the old days was how it was supposed to be, but how do you know? How can you be so sure that what we have now isn't the end goal of what they were aiming for: a highsec where resources are scares and fought over, and where the entrepreneurially minded can (easily) sidestep the whole problem and create small industry havens of their own? Halt ... where exactly in HiSec can you "fight" over resources ? Can you by chance, without me noticing, declare war on NPC corps and kill the macro-miners that hide in them ? The reseeding mechanic does reseeding during .eu prime time aka downtime. I have to fight to be first in line in asteroid belts to 1-cycle the baby asteroids ? I would not call that fighting. And if it's supposed to be like that, get somebody from Game Design in here to state so and I have no problem to stfu.
Ruri	Posted - 2009.05.18 05:57:00 - [78] Originally by: FingerThief It was harsh in the beginning to mine in LoSec ... I have been doing so since day 1 ... but with 10x the players the risk has also grown 10x to mine in LoSec and unless you swarm a LoSec system ... it's not worth mining there anymore. ok everybody read this quote. Now i want you all to read it again. Now lets put an Eve filter on it and hes probable been mining in losec for a few years, no offence FT but nobody ever believes everything of what they read/hear in Eve but most of it has a basis in truth now for all you morons who can't read or won't read the guy said he mines in LoSec, which means not empire, so telling him to get out of empire etc is **ing stupid because hes already out of empire. you all ing fail at reading, and i don't give a if english isn't your first langage he said it clearly enough in the 18th post of this thread and a few other times in other posts. Now I on the other hand do mine in high sec in a 0.5 to be exact and sometimes there are roids and sometimes there aren't. I have scanned down exactly 1 grav site and when i tried to take my Hulk into it, I got a message saying that my ship class couldn't enter. So I shrugged my shoulders and scanned down some other sites and killed some rats, I have not bothered to try grav sites since. honestly I'm at best a casual player so while I support the OP I don't care too much its just irritating to see all the "get out of empire", "get out of your safe noob system" bull, if FT has really been playing for the 6 years he claims (I don't know I'm not online to check) then he possible has been in lowsec far more then the **s trying to get him into lowsec
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.18 06:06:00 - [79] Originally by: Phelaen move to wh space.. bring a rorqual... check this out Let's see: HiSec: Tritanium, Pyerite, Mexallon LoSec: Noxcium, Isogen NullSec: Zydrine, Megacyte, Morphite This is how asteroid belts and their distribution are initially and currently designed ( with some exceptions and changes over the years ). Moving to Lo or NullSec was and should still be an option to get more ( Risk vs Reward ) ISK out of every hour you spend mining. With Tritanium being 4.00 ISK everybody targets that and nobody wants to leave empire or has to. If I would like to mine Bistot ... I know where to go. I want to mine "dirt" ( aka most common, aka Veldspar ) sell it and pay those risk vs reward miners for their Zydrine that they mine in LoSec or NullSec. FT FT
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.18 06:10:00 - [80] Originally by: FingerThief Edited by: FingerThief on 17/05/2009 13:38:52 Let's see if I can post this in a coherent form and not attrack too much flak. Then: 30k players, well seeded belts, No chance to mine them ever dry. Now: 300k players, empty belts, shotty reseeding mechanic, better mining equipment, purpose orientated ships, roaming intellingent macro-mining gangs, and best you can hope for is 1 or 2 cycles per roid in HiSec ( and then you have to be quick right after downtime ) Let's see, CCP has given PvP, PvE orientated gamers at least 10 new ship classes, new NPC, new toys, new regions, new and harder combat system ( sleepers ) and, let me exaggerate, 100 new skills for combat, ECM ... whatever. So, here I am, playing for 6y still having a choice of a whooping 10 modules for mining, not having seen any increase in asteroid belts but only in ways to empty them faster and about 10x more players. Macro mining gangs still are around and petitioning them doesn't change a thing, not because CCP doesn't remove them, but because CCP removes them slowly and with all miners around these days ... if you removed 50 macro mining accounts 5y ago you did remove 0,1% of the player base ... now ... I do not even want to do the math ... it's just not sufficient. It is MY opinion that CCP has to change the respawn/reseeding on asteroid belts or make belts bigger ... grow the resources that are available with the the increasing player base ... get better in identifying who macro mines and get rid of them for good. The current mechanic was working a few years back ... not anymore. Furthermore ... You get more and better ships, better and bigger guns ... but I, as manufacturer, still only have 11 slots per character to build stuff. Another skill to get 10 more slots ? Please ??? Regards, FT The huge majority of mineral resources are untouched. Try stepping out of the safe starter areas. Or even just a jump or two away from the station you started in.

Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.18 06:15:00 - [81] The simple highsec solution is doing a L1 combat mission , once all is clear move in mining vessel , start chewing rocks. Some of these missions have suprisingly extreme ammounts of ore available. "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.18 06:19:00 - [82] Originally by: Ruri honestly I'm at best a casual player so while I support the OP I don't care too much its just irritating to see all the "get out of empire", "get out of your safe noob system" bull**, if FT has really been playing for the 6 years he claims (I don't know I'm not online to check) then he possible has been in lowsec far more then the s trying to get him into lowsec I have been mining in 0.4 and 0.5 for the last 6y. I mined BYOM for my first Thorax and used that to mine BYOM for my first Megathron ( all that in 0.4 and 0.3 ) I have seen the player growth arriving at the 0.5 doorstep of the LoSec I call home over the last 6y ( and it's 22 jumps from Jita, 15 from Yulai [ for those who remember ] ). I have seen the macro mining gangs appearing and being stationary mining every single day, being petitioned over and over again until my fellow corp members gave up petitioning them because after about 100 petitions on the same OBVIOUS macro miner one reaches the point "It's waste of time !" The funny thing is ... while I was using a Hulk or more to mine in LoSec up to Aposomething patch ... they introduced BS rats in LoSec for the PvE happy crowd ... just **ing me off even more since now BS spawn appears and I am being pushed into the "make a bigger blob" mentality to survive against PC and NPC alike. Now, why oh why does the PvP, PvE crowd get their game mechanics constantly changed, adapted etc and I ... intending to be the backbone for all those players ( mining the resources required to actually build ships, modules and ammo ) ... have to stick around using something outdated, have to deal with macro-miners etc. FT
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.18 06:21:00 - [83] Originally by: Hyveres The simple highsec solution is doing a L1 combat mission , once all is clear move in mining vessel , start chewing rocks. Some of these missions have suprisingly extreme ammounts of ore available. It should be an option, not a solution. If the solution to a problem is using a not for that purpose designed game mechanic then the original game mechanic is faulty.
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.18 06:24:00 - [84] Originally by: Malcanis The huge majority of mineral resources are untouched. Try stepping out of the safe starter areas. Or even just a jump or two away from the station you started in. I have already stated that I am NOT resident in HiSec anywhere near starter areas.
Maglorre	Posted - 2009.05.18 07:19:00 - [85] Originally by: FingerThief Originally by: Hyveres The simple highsec solution is doing a L1 combat mission , once all is clear move in mining vessel , start chewing rocks. Some of these missions have suprisingly extreme ammounts of ore available. It should be an option, not a solution. If the solution to a problem is using a not for that purpose designed game mechanic then the original game mechanic is faulty. Who says it wasn't purpose designed? If the devs didn't want the possibility of those roids being mined they would have used the roids that can't be mined. You have also stated that you have tried scanning for grav sites and found only one grav but lots of anomalies. Did you bother to look at those anomalies? You really should do so as some of them have significant volumes of good sized asteroids to mine and anyone can find then with a 30 second scan on the built in ship scanner, no skills required.
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.18 07:28:00 - [86] Originally by: Maglorre You have also stated that you have tried scanning for grav sites and found only one grav but lots of anomalies. Did you bother to look at those anomalies? You really should do so as some of them have significant volumes of good sized asteroids to mine and anyone can find then with a 30 second scan on the built in ship scanner, no skills required. I think you are missing the point here. I am questioning the validity of the 6y old re-seeding mechanic for asteroid belts. Yes, I have taken an extensive look at those anomalies. Yes, I know that they could have a nice amount of asteroids. Once again. Option vs Solution ... what you are telling me is to look at something else then the intended game mechanic to get my ore. As long as you tell me that I know that I am right in requesting the game mechanic responsible for the re-seeding to get an overhaul. tyvm FT
Frenzei Gallente Fortuna inc. Leather Rose Syndicate	Posted - 2009.05.18 07:30:00 - [87] Had a corp mining op this saturday... Stripped 2 belts and had at a third over a 4 hour span... In the same highsec system, a long time after DT, too. I still know a few constellations where i could easily get my roid-sucking quotas filled with no problem... Got a system not many jumps away from dodixie, another in amarr space, not far away from dodixie again, and then, even caldari space has it's nuggets. Lone Wolf
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.05.18 07:41:00 - [88] Edited by: Tippia on 18/05/2009 07:42:52 Originally by: FingerThief It would mean competition if you could actually do something against your competitors ( other miners ) to make their life miserable. At the moment it's just about who get's on faster after downtime. …and dec them. And gank them. Or hire someone else to do the above. Quote: Halt ... where exactly in HiSec can you "fight" over resources ? Can you by chance, without me noticing, declare war on NPC corps and kill the macro-miners that hide in them ? Industry PvP is the all about being the first one on the spot: the first to get the asteroids; the first to get the salvage; the first to get the S&I slots. It's very much the same kind of fighting that goes on on the market, but at a (far) slower pace. No-one is arguing the fact that macroers and NPC players cause a problem, but few are willing to accept the changes that need to take place to fix this problem. And note: this is not a problem that has anything to do with mining or allocation of resources, but with protection mechanics that need to exist, which makes it a tough nut to crack… That said, if you want to argue for the removal of NPC safe havens and for some anti-macro mechanics, then do so, but don't confuse that argument with the topic of availability of resources because that's a completely different issue (or, rather, not an issue at all). Quote: The reseeding mechanic does reseeding during .eu prime time aka downtime. Eh no. Downtime happens well outside of EU prime time, and quotes from the devs seem to suggest that, while the seeing of new asteroids happen then, the growth happens at other intervals during the day. If you feel like pointing fingers at anyone in particular, you should probably have a look at the Aussies, the Japanese and (possibly) the Russians — you know, the GMT+9 (¦1) crowd, rather than the GMT¦1, because for us, DT happens when no-one's at home. Quote: I have to fight to be first in line in asteroid belts to 1-cycle the baby asteroids ? I would not call that fighting. …and I wouldn't know because I don't see these belts you're talking about. Even though I'm in highsec. How do you explain that? Is it because I use different systems than the lemmings? Is it because I have no problems finding grav (and other) sites shock full of them? Is it because I run lots of missions and clean those out? These days, it's more the second since I like being left alone by wannabe canflippers who go ADD-nuts when I don't drop any cans… Either way, doing any and all of the above should provide you with all the asteroids you need. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.18 07:58:00 - [89] Well, the general consensus is that I am wrong in wanting CCP have a look at the mechanics that are 6y old. I do not reputate myself as one of the more vocal players nor do I voice my opinion about PvP or PvE problems just to have a forum post. I do know my roids however and consider what I am asking CCP to do quite reasonable. Almost everybody misses the point I am trying to make, which is rather annoying. I am not disputing that there ARE ways to get asteroids ... I am asking CCP to check their PRIMARY game mechanic that deals with the reseeding of depleted asteroids in PUBLIC asteroid belts and to get rid of the macro-mining hordes. I do not need, nor did I asked for lectures on where to find asteroids ... I am questioning the functionality of what once was working and now, based on player influx, is broken. I wouldn't dream to say "What if CCP intended it to be like that ?" because we do not know unless they say so. I invite them to say so and I have no problem accepting it. Regards, FT
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.05.18 08:04:00 - [90] Originally by: FingerThief I am asking CCP to check their PRIMARY game mechanic that deals with the reseeding of depleted asteroids in PUBLIC asteroid belts and to get rid of the macro-mining hordes. Well, to be less confrontational, but still as a counter-point… The last time I heard anything on the subject, the devs mentioned that the seeding mechanics already took the environment into account when figuring out where, when and how much the asteroids should respawn. In a semi-recent thread on the topic of which days asteroids pop up, there were many suggestions and even some old-fashioned empirical testing, which led up to a sneaking suspicion that things like system- or constellation population in relation to actual mining activity did make a difference. What you're asking for might in essence already be in there — it just happens on a scale and time frame that makes it largely imperceptible. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki



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