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What would it take to gank a freighter in empire?

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Pocahantas	Posted - 2009.05.20 08:03:00 - [1] Carebear alt here, I'm considering going for a freighter and would like to know just how vulnerable they are in Empire. The degree of survivability in a freighter is key for me as I can't afford to lose 800+ million getting ganked, nor do I think insurance is a viable option. I've never ganked, pirated, or PvP'd so my experience in this area is very limited. Basically I have no idea what to look out for. Of course, anything can be ganked in theory, even the veldnaught, so I guess what I am looking for is what would it take to gank a freighter at a .06 gate assuming no concord on the scene at the time of the gank. Here's what I think I do know: 1: Concord response time is faster in 1.0 than .5, so .5 systems give the best chance. 2: Only another freighter can loot the wreck of a ganked freighter Some things I don't know: 1: Can you salvage the wreck of a freighter and if so what would you use? Orca? 2: Is there any need for warp scram in this situation? 3: How long would a player have to train to be a meaningful part of a gank fleet? The new skill system seems to preclude suicide gank ready pilots at birth, or is this my imagination?
Zar Terra MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2009.05.20 08:05:00 - [2] more then its generally worth.... -= NightShifter =- "Hilarious Griefing Engine"
Cyrdax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.20 08:12:00 - [3] it takes more than 800mil worth of hardware to gank a freighter, you are safe --- tv where the horn go, boy can you top that?
Lana Hellfury Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2009.05.20 08:18:00 - [4] Beer and lots of it... Then I'll do anything you want.
Cyrdax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.20 08:29:00 - [5] Originally by: Lana Hellfury Beer and lots of it... Then I'll do anything you want. sold --- tv where the horn go, boy can you top that?
Akura kawanaka	Posted - 2009.05.20 09:03:00 - [6] just a quick tip - if you're super worried about being attacked, you can get an alt or someone else in your corp to web you every time you jump into a system. The webber lowers your max speed, meaning you get into warp a heck of a lot faster. although I don't fly a freighter, we've used this for moving freighters and orcas through lowsec (with an escort of course) and it really makes a huge difference.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.05.20 09:18:00 - [7] Quote: he degree of survivability in a freighter is key for me as I can't afford to lose 800+ million getting ganked At the cost of sounding obvious: 1) Don't fly what you can't afford to lose 2) Consider your ship gone every time you undock. In case of freighters also add: 3) Don't buy a freigther before you have 1B more. 4) Yes you'll lose it if you carry important yet small stuff enough (several billions). Else they won't bother. 5) Before you even ask, you sound a lot not ready for low sec, so don't even try it with a freigther for now.
Kurfin	Posted - 2009.05.20 09:19:00 - [8] You will be reasonably safe in high sec. Freighters have a lot of HP, though most is in structure where you have 0% resists. There are a few things to improve your chances; Always warp to zero, don't auto pilot, if you're carrying something pricey. Anyone looking to gank a freighter in high sec will almost certainly cargo scan you to see if it worth their while. If you haven't already train Mechanic, Hull upgrades and Shield management to level 5. They give an extra 5% structure, armor, and shield respectively, gives any gankers more to chew through. For the thing you don't know. 1. Anything can loot from a freighter wreck, but if 400kish M3 of cargo survived the only thing that can empty it in a reasonable time is another freighter (Freighter wrecks are the only wreck a freighter can loot) 2. They are unlikely to use a warp scram on you as the freighters are so slow to align they can stop you warping just by bumping you. Even if they do, it's not like you can fit warp stabs. 3. I've never done the high sec ganking thing, but I'd imagine that against a freighter anything smaller than a battleship won't be much good. The new system will stop people ganking paper thin indys at birth, doesn't affect freighters.
Heinrich Snyder	Posted - 2009.05.20 09:45:00 - [9] If you move high valued cargo (let's say over 2bilj in worth or more) it may not be a bad idea to use a scout. BS group is quite easy to spot, since they are waiting for you with drones out at a gate. If your scout is in the same non npc corp and flies rapier/huginn and webs you on each gate, you'll be much harder to gank. I'm not aware of any highsec jump freighter ganks, not sure if any has been done. Will be harder to kill since it has more hp.
info specialist	Posted - 2009.05.20 12:02:00 - [10] This is such a failtry at convinceing us you are the victim-maybe and not the ganker-wannabe. Questions such as: "2: Is there any need for warp scram in this situation? " and "3: How long would a player have to train to be a meaningful part of a gank fleet? The new skill system seems to preclude suicide gank ready pilots at birth, or is this my imagination?" Both of those questions would not be needed if just wondering about flying a freighter. However; both are very important if researching into ganking a freighter. Oh, and the reenforcement in convincing us you are the gankee and not the ganker is thrust upon us in the opening salutation: "Carebear alt here," and then goes further to explain how you cant afford to lose the freighter.

RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.05.20 12:16:00 - [11] OP just guaranteed that there are now people running locators on him Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
Misanth The Glenn Quagmire Finishing School for Young Ladies Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.05.20 12:26:00 - [12] Originally by: Pocahantas I can't afford to lose 800+ million getting ganked That's your problem. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen.
SFX Bladerunner Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2009.05.20 12:48:00 - [13] Edited by: SFX Bladerunner on 20/05/2009 12:48:05 Originally by: Heinrich Snyder If you move high valued cargo (let's say over 2bilj in worth or more) it may not be a bad idea to use a scout. BS group is quite easy to spot, since they are waiting for you with drones out at a gate. If your scout is in the same non npc corp and flies rapier/huginn and webs you on each gate, you'll be much harder to gank. I'm not aware of any highsec jump freighter ganks, not sure if any has been done. Will be harder to kill since it has more hp. They have been done alright, atleast 2 times to my knowledge. First time was a freighter ganked in a 0.6 system, and I do not have details on that. Second time (I believe) was done by an alliance I used to be in. This however was not a regular 'gank'. Our alliance was contracted (we were mercs) to gank the freighter by another freighter carebear that wanted to eliminate his competition or something. We ganked him in a 0.7 system when he warped to a gate at 15km from a station (stupid!) and we used approx 20 to 30 gank fitted battleships, not sure on the exact numbers as this is quite a while ago. I personally wasn't flying a bs at that time, I had the distinct honour of ganking his pod after his freighter died. To achieve this I fitted a plated rupture with 6 medium smartbombs. Here are the killmails for freighter and pod: http://aggro.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=1404966 http://aggro.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=1404965 As you can see it took us +- 20 battleships to gank the freighter in a 0.7 system. Depending on how much you are willing to afford for your BS it might be do-able with 15. __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..
Pocahantas	Posted - 2009.05.20 14:09:00 - [14] Originally by: info specialist This is such a failtry at convinceing us you are the victim-maybe and not the ganker-wannabe. Questions such as: "2: Is there any need for warp scram in this situation? " and "3: How long would a player have to train to be a meaningful part of a gank fleet? The new skill system seems to preclude suicide gank ready pilots at birth, or is this my imagination?" Both of those questions would not be needed if just wondering about flying a freighter. However; both are very important if researching into ganking a freighter. Oh, and the reenforcement in convincing us you are the gankee and not the ganker is thrust upon us in the opening salutation: "Carebear alt here," and then goes further to explain how you cant afford to lose the freighter. Look, this is my first time posting on C&P, I am a carebear alt (cyno at that from a brief foray into a failed low sec corp) many others in the thread actually had helpfull advice such as "don't buy a freighter untill you have 1 billion left over" a refrain I have read numerous times while lurking on the market discussions forum. Yes I am asking about offensive tactics but only so I can understand what a gank camp might look like so that I may better identify it. You may not think its a good idea to understand the tactics that others may use against you, but to me it all falls under the "know thine enemy" umbrella and is a sound practice. The question about warp scrams was just to confirm that any would be gankers could be all gank, no tank, no tackle. While Market Discussions is chock full of uber rich toons dispensing morsels of info while e-peening their ISK and IPO's, nobody there seems to know much about the actual mechanics of ganking. And of course it's one thing for a player worth 40 billion to lose a freighter (2% of assets) compared to a player with a net worth of 3 billion (27% percent of assets.) Please envision yourself now being played off by keyboard cat. To the others that left helpfull comments, thanks for your input.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.20 14:30:00 - [15] Edited by: Sader Rykane on 20/05/2009 14:34:09 Originally by: Akura kawanaka just a quick tip - if you're super worried about being attacked, you can get an alt or someone else in your corp to web you every time you jump into a system. The webber lowers your max speed, meaning you get into warp a heck of a lot faster. although I don't fly a freighter, we've used this for moving freighters and orcas through lowsec (with an escort of course) and it really makes a huge difference. Is this true? Because I thought webs raised your align time as well. Would dual webs help you get into warp you even faster? This is info I could really use. Click for gallery!
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.20 14:42:00 - [16] Originally by: Sader Rykane Edited by: Sader Rykane on 20/05/2009 14:34:09 Originally by: Akura kawanaka just a quick tip - if you're super worried about being attacked, you can get an alt or someone else in your corp to web you every time you jump into a system. The webber lowers your max speed, meaning you get into warp a heck of a lot faster. although I don't fly a freighter, we've used this for moving freighters and orcas through lowsec (with an escort of course) and it really makes a huge difference. Is this true? Because I thought webs raised your align time as well. Would dual webs help you get into warp you even faster? This is info I could really use. It's true, but it's not nearly as effective as it was before QR. With -90% webs, you could reliably do it in low sec. With -60% ones, I would at best use them to speed things up, not really avoid a camp or something.
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Standards and Practices	Posted - 2009.05.20 14:50:00 - [17] Originally by: Sader Rykane Edited by: Sader Rykane on 20/05/2009 14:34:09 Originally by: Akura kawanaka just a quick tip - if you're super worried about being attacked, you can get an alt or someone else in your corp to web you every time you jump into a system. The webber lowers your max speed, meaning you get into warp a heck of a lot faster. although I don't fly a freighter, we've used this for moving freighters and orcas through lowsec (with an escort of course) and it really makes a huge difference. Is this true? Because I thought webs raised your align time as well. Would dual webs help you get into warp you even faster? This is info I could really use. Yes, this works a treat. Double/triple/quad web. You warp when you're heading in the right direction at 75% of your velocity (Does this depend on skills?) So, if you're webbed down so your max speed is stupid slow you can catapult off at a very, very slow speeds. If you've ever seen a freighter take off sideways, this is the reason. The best thing about this is freighters warp at about 1au. So, even in a cruiser, you can web your buddy, watch him warp off...hit warp yourself and if the system is big enough, actually hit the destination gate before him, jump through, scout the far gate, and repeat. And, if you are not in a player corp, you can still get a hand by a friendly guy by can-aggroing him with another ship before going on your trip. I can be contacted for such help. -- Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.20 16:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Zedrik Cayne Originally by: Sader Rykane Edited by: Sader Rykane on 20/05/2009 14:34:09 Originally by: Akura kawanaka just a quick tip - if you're super worried about being attacked, you can get an alt or someone else in your corp to web you every time you jump into a system. The webber lowers your max speed, meaning you get into warp a heck of a lot faster. although I don't fly a freighter, we've used this for moving freighters and orcas through lowsec (with an escort of course) and it really makes a huge difference. Is this true? Because I thought webs raised your align time as well. Would dual webs help you get into warp you even faster? This is info I could really use. Yes, this works a treat. Double/triple/quad web. You warp when you're heading in the right direction at 75% of your velocity (Does this depend on skills?) So, if you're webbed down so your max speed is stupid slow you can catapult off at a very, very slow speeds. If you've ever seen a freighter take off sideways, this is the reason. The best thing about this is freighters warp at about 1au. So, even in a cruiser, you can web your buddy, watch him warp off...hit warp yourself and if the system is big enough, actually hit the destination gate before him, jump through, scout the far gate, and repeat. And, if you are not in a player corp, you can still get a hand by a friendly guy by can-aggroing him with another ship before going on your trip. I can be contacted for such help. Just tested it using my alts orca. Triple webbed it with my Vengeance and it just flew off. This is one hell of a tip and is really going to help out with my future plans =) Click for gallery!
Akura kawanaka	Posted - 2009.05.20 16:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Sader Rykane Just tested it using my alts orca. Triple webbed it with my Vengeance and it just flew off. This is one hell of a tip and is really going to help out with my future plans =) Newsflash: Actual useful information found on Eve Online Web forums! film at 11.
Renarla	Posted - 2009.05.20 17:12:00 - [20] It takes a small fleet of gank battleships to take down a freighter, generally 20-30. Your unlikely to be chosen as a target. However, on another note, I now have one of those annoying sigs.

Shinma Apollo Shut Up And Play	Posted - 2009.05.20 17:27:00 - [21] Basically speaking, you're looking at 12-15. Your basic calculator is "the effort factor" calculus. (A/2-B)xC/D=X where: A is the value of your cargo B is the net cost of the hardware required to take it down (after insurance) C is the time taken to acquire a target. Fact: suicide ganking is pretty much as boring as mining. D is the number of people involved in the gank X is your "go" factor, which basically is looking at 100 mil+ A few quick facts for you: It takes: 2-3 characters to gank a t1 hauler 4 characters to gank a t2 hauler 7-8 characters to gank an orca 17-20 characters to gank a freighter ~30 characters to gank a jump freighter 5-6 Characters to gank a deadspace fit t2 mission ship Scouts are useful, but not the be all and end all. Good risk management will get you further than scouts. If I'm going to gank you, I know 5 minutes before. I may follow you from when you undock. I may only appear on the gate as you jump. If you want to not be the guy whose tears and hard labor feed me, manage your loads. Lastly, The isk should be transfered to lana Originally by: CCP Mitnal Let's not go near moderation discussion. However, if the excuse involved role-playing Zorro, this did get full marks for creativity
Stele Toque	Posted - 2009.05.20 17:51:00 - [22] Go to Niarja and talk to the guys there. I see them ganking freighters there all the time.
SFX Bladerunner Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2009.05.20 17:51:00 - [23] Originally by: Zedrik Cayne Originally by: Sader Rykane Edited by: Sader Rykane on 20/05/2009 14:34:09 Originally by: Akura kawanaka just a quick tip - if you're super worried about being attacked, you can get an alt or someone else in your corp to web you every time you jump into a system. The webber lowers your max speed, meaning you get into warp a heck of a lot faster. although I don't fly a freighter, we've used this for moving freighters and orcas through lowsec (with an escort of course) and it really makes a huge difference. Is this true? Because I thought webs raised your align time as well. Would dual webs help you get into warp you even faster? This is info I could really use. Yes, this works a treat. Double/triple/quad web. You warp when you're heading in the right direction at 75% of your velocity (Does this depend on skills?) So, if you're webbed down so your max speed is stupid slow you can catapult off at a very, very slow speeds. If you've ever seen a freighter take off sideways, this is the reason. The best thing about this is freighters warp at about 1au. So, even in a cruiser, you can web your buddy, watch him warp off...hit warp yourself and if the system is big enough, actually hit the destination gate before him, jump through, scout the far gate, and repeat. And, if you are not in a player corp, you can still get a hand by a friendly guy by can-aggroing him with another ship before going on your trip. I can be contacted for such help. IT'S AN OBVIOUS TRAP. __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Standards and Practices	Posted - 2009.05.20 18:36:00 - [24] Originally by: SFX Bladerunner IT'S AN OBVIOUS TRAP. SHHHHHHH! -- Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
Lady Aja Caldari Eradication Project	Posted - 2009.05.20 19:10:00 - [25] if youre in a npc corp youre pretty much 100% safe unless you goto low sec or worse. if youre in a corp dont fly during war decs you never know what or who is on the gate...
Jade TX	Posted - 2009.05.20 20:54:00 - [26] Load beer charges into your blasters. With that a frig can take down a titan. :D
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.05.20 20:56:00 - [27] I'm no expert, but I think this is a job for my trusty bike and I... --- I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :(
Alxea	Posted - 2009.05.20 21:04:00 - [28] Originally by: Captain Pompous I'm no expert, but I think this is a job for my trusty bike and I... ROFL
Mikael Mechka	Posted - 2009.05.20 21:21:00 - [29] Doesn't look like anyone has mentioned this, so I'll just throw this out there. If you're going to be using an alt or a corp mate to help you get into warp faster or just by scouting, have you considered said person to have leadership skills? Specifically, Armoured Warfare. Siege warfare isn't that useful as the shields on a freighter (according to Evelopedia) are only a few thousand not to mention that you only get the extra shields in a "depleted" fashion, but their base armour is about 20k. Unlike shields, if your armour is full, you get the armour bonus as hp there and then, not needing to be repped. An alt or corp mate scouting/webbing you can have armoured warfare and still give you up to 10% extra armour even if they are in a frigate. Might make a difference if a gank ever happens to you and isn't that hard to train up. ------------------------------------------------- Originally by: Lana Torrin I just reported you for being informative in a troll thread. Please leave.
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.05.21 00:57:00 - [30] I realise im feeding te trollz but i never managed to web a hauler thing ship more than one web it warped the whole out before i hit second webzor. wat mai doing wong? The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments



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