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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Batnaso
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Posted - 2009.05.25 15:07:00 -
[271]
Edited by: Batnaso on 25/05/2009 15:13:23
CCP last "NURF" curse them and now have a bigger problem! Clocking + MWD and 3 sec penalty??!! Maybe the problem coming from there.
P.S ou I almost forgot - nurf Jita
and your HeadQuaters too.
nurfing and bugs FTW |
Par'Gellen
Gallente
Tres Hombres Psychiatric Hospital
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Posted - 2009.05.25 15:46:00 -
[272]
 Originally by: NightmareX
How in the name of jesus did the whole QA staff managed to oversee the jump bug?. Did no one of the QA staff take no jumps at all before they decided the patch was clear to be released?.
Oddly they seem to consider the players to be their QA dept. I've seen the threads telling them about this issue before it was a huge problem and their response was "We can't reproduce it." Personally I'm not sure what is so difficult about using a gate a few times or setting auto-pilot to a system 30 jumps away and then just letting it reproduce itself while they eat, sleep, watch TV, get drunk, whatever... It gives the impression that someone at CCP used a gate one time and then shelved it as a crap bug report.
Originally by: Sinjack
Typical Development Cycle
1) Changes on Development Server
2) Move changes to QA Server
3) Repeat above until Changes pass User Test.
4) Schedule move to Production
If they didn't rely on the players to do number 3 and then ignore us you'd be 100% correct. They do things differently than most places. Unfortunately they seem proud of it...
Disclaimer: I just call them like I see them. 
---
To err is human. But it shouldn't be the company motto...
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Damien Arcuri
Empire Black Market
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Posted - 2009.05.25 20:55:00 -
[273]
Awesome CCP! 4 days of "testing" to fix this game-breaking and infuriating bug?
You wonder why people get frustrated with your QA and customer relations? Hint: announcing "we're working on it" or announcing a deployment date for a bugfix does not resolve anything. DEPLOYING a bugfix is what resolves the bug.
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Couldbe Acrackhead
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Posted - 2009.05.26 00:26:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Couldbe Acrackhead
CCP...still waiting....
WILL LOSSES BE REIMBURSED BECAUSE OF THIS BUG?
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Tony Kael
Caldari
Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.05.26 02:01:00 -
[275]
to be fair to them they dropped it on singularity over the weekend to make sure it worked.
the problem is is that its a game-breaking bug atm that requires immediate fixing.
it really should not have got to this point, i made 32 jumps earlier thru highsec to home in 0.0 and i had to relog after half of those jumps.
for those saying 'dont jump, omgwtfimsoleet' really you're missing the point.
____________________________________
SKMC |
Dralon
Rebirth Armada
Death Is Everywhere
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Posted - 2009.05.26 08:37:00 -
[276]
The customer relations in this matter has been outright shocking. Get a proper PR dude and do yourself a favour 
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Harlon Paraxis
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Posted - 2009.05.26 08:51:00 -
[277]
The way I see it, CCP are in a catch-22 situation.
The bug occured because not enough testing was done, which caused many a player to whine. And then, when they test the patch to make sure it won't happen again, players whine. Yes, it's taken a while for the patch to be released, but at least they're taking some care in getting it out. |
Solj RichPopolous
Amarr
Eve Liberation Force
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.26 09:38:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Couldbe Acrackhead
CCP...still waiting....
WILL LOSSES BE REIMBURSED BECAUSE OF THIS BUG?
Answer from reimbursement petitions states as follows:
We could not find this problem in our logs. Your ship did not warp off because you were warp scrambled....
Gee I wonder why I got warp scrambled, could it be that I gate crashed when jumping into a system?
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Dralon
Rebirth Armada
Death Is Everywhere
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Posted - 2009.05.26 11:12:00 -
[279]
They have a game breaking bug. They can't reimburse people because they can't log what's happening.
They haven't even apologised. There's not even a dev blog. It's unprofessional.
They may be working really hard in the background, but as it stands a lot of us feel abused.
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Mistress Beauty
University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.05.26 12:01:00 -
[280]
they are more concerned with the csm vote.
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Tallaran Kouros
Caldari
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.26 12:49:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Par'Gellen
Personally I'm not sure what is so difficult about using a gate a few times or setting auto-pilot to a system 30 jumps away and then just letting it reproduce itself while they eat, sleep, watch TV, get drunk, whatever... It gives the impression that someone at CCP used a gate one time and then shelved it as a crap bug report.
You don't understand because you have never worked as a programmer, or in a QA team.
It's not as simple as just setting an autopilot and seeing what happens - they have to know the exact criteria.
Perhaps it only occurs when a certain graphical setting is enabled, or a certain item is in the cargohold, or the camera is angled a certain way.
These are all things that have to be looked into whilst a bug is investigated.
Only when you know the exact conditions to reproduce it every single time can you go to the code and finx the issue.
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Khovri
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Posted - 2009.05.26 12:51:00 -
[282]
Quote:
They have a game breaking bug. They can't reimburse people because they can't log what's happening.
They haven't even apologised. There's not even a dev blog. It's unprofessional.
They may be working really hard in the background, but as it stands a lot of us feel abused.
<3
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Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.05.26 14:53:00 -
[283]
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 26/05/2009 14:55:50
My biggest complaint is that this patch, if they had one to fix what is a GAMEBREAKER of a problem, should have been deployed Friday or Saturday. Leaving the game in an unplayable state over a holiday weekend is very unacceptable.
Yes, the patch should be tested, but this should have been handled as an emergency situation. I'm very disappointed in CCP, they are better than this.
And, yes, testing for stuff like this should be handled internally. Sisi should exist as a PREVIEW of an upcoming patch and not be the primary test environment. Yes, we should submit bug reports and they should be followed up on but the real testing should be done by CCP themselves. We're not paying a subscription fee to be their QA department. Unfortunately pretty much every MMO publisher (including Blizzard) abuses their customer in the same manner.
Unfortunately the only way to get publishers to cease and desist such behavior is to punish them for it. And the only way to do that is to cancel subscriptions. Sad that this is ultimately the only way you can get a publisher to respond to customers. I'm not advocating this, but I have no doubt that a week's worth of unplayable EVE undoubtedly resulted in some cancellations.
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My opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of my corp or alliance. |
Tallaran Kouros
Caldari
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.26 15:40:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
My biggest complaint is that this patch, if they had one to fix what is a GAMEBREAKER of a problem, should have been deployed Friday or Saturday. Leaving the game in an unplayable state over a holiday weekend is very unacceptable.
Yes, the patch should be tested, but this should have been handled as an emergency situation. I'm very disappointed in CCP, they are better than this.
That's not how QA works.
The very fact that it doesn't happen every time you jump implies that there is something more subtle going on than "gates don't work".
Unlike most people commenting and ranting about this issue, I actually work in QA and I understand how a bug is identified and more importantly, how you go about doing a change request and managing a code base as large as Eve.
I know people who don't work in the industry may not appreciate this, but it is *not* a case of just fixing a line of code and rushing out a patch - it simply doesn't work like that no matter how "game breaking" people may think this is (personally I found it annoying when it did happen, but I was still able to do missions and production).
I'm willing to give CCP the benefit of the doubt and say that they might not have had a test case for whatever combination of circumstances causes this issue to happen when jumping, but what really annoyed me was the lack of clear information and status updates.
I'm not going to complain about how long it took to get the patch as I work in the industry and know how long these things take to be done properly, but leaving people without proper updates just shows a complete lack of care and courtesy towards the customers.
If my company treated customers like that we wouldn't have any left!
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Gunnanmon
Gallente
UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2009.05.26 16:08:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Dralon
They have a game breaking bug. They can't reimburse people because they can't log what's happening.
They haven't even apologised. There's not even a dev blog. It's unprofessional.
They may be working really hard in the background, but as it stands a lot of us feel abused.
Welcome to Eve.
Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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Studley McMuffin
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Posted - 2009.05.26 16:28:00 -
[286]
This bug affected everyone i know within game.
How it was never picked up during testing is what is really astonishing as it took most people less than 30 minutes to discover it in game if they actually travel between 2 systems.
Taking 5 days to fix a problem that none of us should ever of experienced is whats annoying most people.
Would love to hear the reason why it wasnt detected in the first instance if its a plausable reason we should of been informed and it might of stopped some of the abuse ccp feel they received.
lessons to be learnt if anyone really cares, might of been nice to actually post a further update by ccp rather than the last one which appeared about 4 days ago.
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Lord Makk
Trust Doesn't Rust
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.05.26 17:47:00 -
[287]
Mr Wrangler.
After tuesdays patching.. Have the issue with invisible ships been corrected?
On several occasions, ships are not showing on the overview, but they are viewable in space, scrambling and shooting at you.
But it can even be worse! Sometimes you won't even see the ship attacking you. We've had several people report the same. Invisible ships, 100% unable to retaliate can't even lock them, you can just sit there and wait until something else has caught up and ganked you.
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.05.26 18:00:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Khovri
Quote:
They have a game breaking bug. They can't reimburse people because they can't log what's happening.
They haven't even apologised. There's not even a dev blog. It's unprofessional.
They may be working really hard in the background, but as it stands a lot of us feel abused.
<3
This
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Par'Gellen
Gallente
Tres Hombres Psychiatric Hospital
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Posted - 2009.05.26 22:42:00 -
[289]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 26/05/2009 22:43:01
Originally by: Tallaran Kouros
...you have never worked as a programmer, or in a QA team.
If you only knew...  Originally by: Tallaran Kouros
It's not as simple as just setting an autopilot and seeing what happens - they have to know the exact criteria.
Step 1 is to reproduce it. Period. If the userbase says they get stuck when doing nothing more than jumping through a few gates then that's all the info they need to get the ball rolling. After they reproduce it in house they can narrow down the exact criteria. Relying on the userbase to spoon-feed them all the tinyest details before they even give it a serious effort is appalling QA. I would fire the entire lot in an instant if they ever attempted to pull some crap like that under me.
One tester that gives a rip is better than fifty that don't...
---
To err is human. But it shouldn't be the company motto...
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.26 23:59:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Par'Gellen
Relying on the user base to spoon-feed them all the tinyest details before they even give it a serious effort is appalling QA. I would fire the entire lot in an instant if they ever attempted to pull some crap like that under me.
One tester that gives a rip is better than fifty that don't...
Can you prove without reasonable doubt that they weren't also troubleshooting on their end whilst also asking for bug reports?
___________________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
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Bingowas hisnamo
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Posted - 2009.05.27 00:08:00 -
[291]
Guys, you're missing the point here.
This bug WAS reported prior to release on tranquility. That's part of what's so frustrating about this. There was a game breaking bug, that was reported to them more than once, which they then released into the primary server.
I also work in QA.... That's not kosher.
Anyone else noting any similarities to the POS bug? Reported to them, ignored, game breaking issues result?
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.05.27 00:53:00 -
[292]
Meh, I've spotted huge bugs before too on singularity that get put over to tranquility.
I think you're supposed to second guess whether or not the test server version is the finalised patch or how big such things might be to fix. You aren't communicated with or given any useful info and if you make a ruckus about an issue fearing the worst you are ignored like everyone was with the cloak exploit, or you are told vital information of why it's not a problem that they decided not to tell you before.
Which is why it can be a bit of a waste of time being a tester for singularity, efforts are better spent reporting bugs on the live server.
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Par'Gellen
Gallente
Tres Hombres Psychiatric Hospital
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Posted - 2009.05.27 12:36:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Can you prove without reasonable doubt that they weren't also troubleshooting on their end whilst also asking for bug reports?
Can you prove they were? It sure doesn't seem like it. I just call them like I see them.
Had they been giving it any serious effort the bug would have been reproduced and fixed on Singularity before it ever reached Tranquility. Based on what I saw in the thread about it in the development forum they saw the reports, gave it a try, jumped successfully, and then moved on. Giving them the benefit of the doubt and allowing that maybe it made it to Tranquility as a mistake they STILL should have immediately realized something was wrong from what I'm sure was a huge increase in petitions and bug reports and a definite increase in forum posts about it.
Still, bugs happen and things can slip past even the best QA department. However, I've read through this entire thread and it is quite plain to see that the bug itself isn't what is enraging the userbase. It's the "Ho-hum oh well *yawn* we'll fix it when we get ready to take a look at it. Hey pass the beer..." attitude of CCP about the whole thing. They don't pay to play (hell from what I see they don't even play for free anymore) so it's not a big deal to them and they can wait a week before doing anything about it.
After all, they have lots of players now. A few that leave over something like this is probably not even a consideration.
Just to be crystal clear, the bug is bad but not the real problem here. The problem is the attitude of CCP regarding it. Had they busted their butts and rolled back or hotfixed it none of us would be here right now complaining about their terrible QA and customer service. You know why? Because it wouldn't be so terrible then now would it.
Originally by: Bingowas hisnamo
Guys, you're missing the point here.
This bug WAS reported prior to release on tranquility. That's part of what's so frustrating about this. There was a game breaking bug, that was reported to them more than once, which they then released into the primary server.
I also work in QA.... That's not kosher.
Anyone else noting any similarities to the POS bug? Reported to them, ignored, game breaking issues result?
This.
---
To err is human. But it shouldn't be the company motto...
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