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Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:14:00 - [61] I would be curious to find out just how much of the "40% of minerals come from reprocessed loot" loot is actually modules/ammo manufactured for the purpose of mineral compression.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:17:00 - [62] Originally by: Mara Rinn I would be curious to find out just how much of the "40% of minerals come from reprocessed loot" loot is actually modules/ammo manufactured for the purpose of mineral compression. Reprocessed loot needs to be eliminated from all missions. Since all that trit is hard to move, it's easy to build a battleship from a bpc every few days with all the garbage loot and sell it on market. It's criminal. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Cal V	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:20:00 - [63] The only reason you want lev 4 to low sec is because you see those ravens and typhoons and... fully equipped with nothing specific for PvP battle. You just want easy prey you don¦t want to PvP bunch of hypocrites.
Connner Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:26:00 - [64] IMO there is nothing wrong w/ missions as they are. Belive it or not there are people who actually enjoy them and do not think they are boreing. EVE is PvP based, yes. But that doesn't always mean its traditional ship to ship or fleet to fleet slobberknockers. PVP is also in the market place, and ninja salvaging and so forth. Missions are also an nice quick and easy way to generate enough isk to fund PVP. Especially for learning the ropes when you arn't very good and end up w/ a lot of smokeing heaps from failed excursions. Final point. I have a feeling the vast majority of people wo just do misssions will be severely turned off the game if any of these whines get implimented. Especially the 'move L4's to lowsec'. Missioners will just do level 3's. If the difficulty is upped to where you can't solo one in a BS they will just save up for a maurader or something that can tank it.
Kaivos Pyydys	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:41:00 - [65] Originally by: Connner IMO there is nothing wrong w/ missions as they are. Belive it or not there are people who actually enjoy them and do not think they are boreing. EVE is PvP based, yes. But that doesn't always mean its traditional ship to ship or fleet to fleet slobberknockers. PVP is also in the market place, and ninja salvaging and so forth. Missions are also an nice quick and easy way to generate enough isk to fund PVP. Especially for learning the ropes when you arn't very good and end up w/ a lot of smokeing heaps from failed excursions. Final point. I have a feeling the vast majority of people wo just do misssions will be severely turned off the game if any of these whines get implimented. Especially the 'move L4's to lowsec'. Missioners will just do level 3's. If the difficulty is upped to where you can't solo one in a BS they will just save up for a maurader or something that can tank it. I agree. hmm. I think one of the points in this discussion is that lvl4s are too easy. If you have played this game lets say 1-2 years or more. Those missions should be easy with wast amounts of SPs generated throughout the years. Somebody said that lvl4 can be done with couple of million SPs, but sure as hell its not easy. There are more challenging stuff ingame like wormhole exploration and lvl5s for those who like challenge and do PVE for some other reason besides funding pvp. Then the folks who want lvl4s moved to lowsec. That is just hypocritical. Those people just want easy pvp targets.
Zey Nadar Gallente Stormwatch Galactic	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:45:00 - [66] Edited by: Zey Nadar on 28/05/2009 11:46:40 Originally by: Kaivos You are playing the wrong game m8. This game is about Pvp. Its about player interaction, not necessarily PVP combat only. But all PvE resources should be contestable, thats my opinion. Also, lot of the so-called challenging PvE stuff (like wormholes) arent that profitable unless you got several other people working with you. Theres a lot of people who cant get over the idea of soloing.
skeljita	Posted - 2009.05.28 12:07:00 - [67] More rats in level 4s just equal more isk for me
RiddeledCorpse Ur-Quan Amen Anera	Posted - 2009.05.28 12:08:00 - [68] EvE is about PvP yes i agree, how are you paying for your PvP experience ? I pay for mine by running lvl 4 missions and building ships with the loot so that i can loose them in lowsec or 0.0 against the elite PvP master with his 20 friends, who then find it funny because i jumped through in my fail tech 2 fitted BS. Then they come to the forums to show their dissatisfaction with my income ? If you do any type of tech 2 manufacturing or invention then you earn more than me, I am just a casual player that does not spend all my time on eve. Take away my income and you will see even less PvP as it will now take me and the rest of the EvE players, that PvP on a lvl 4 budget, twice as long to fit the next ship. Maybe we should nerf it in a different way, the more you are worth the less isk you make. That would balance everything. Or even better, lets not gain standing with a faction when running missions lets rather loose standing that way the more mission you run you have to down grade from lvl 4 to lvl 3. That suggestion is just as silly as telling me i have to PvP more because lvl 4 missions makes me easy isk. I don't enjoy running missions but it sure beats the hell out of mining to feed my PvP budget. Just because you have a large wallet does not mean i have. Just because you can make billions in a couple of days, not from where i'm standing btw, does not mean I'm making the same isk. I play for the enjoyment, your angry at everyone that is better off than you and me, so instead of trying to punish them for being better you just want to swing the large nerf bat and let everyone suffer. Additionally if lvl 4 missions become harder and it becomes easier and more profitable to mine, what makes you think any one will continue to run missions, I can see it already "o no, everyone is mining instead of PvP'ing and giving me easy ganks and cheap faction ammo, it must be stopped at all cost, to the forums" tldr version Please stop trying to nerf my PvP because your PvP is to difficult for you or boring. Must everyone jump from noob to expert tech 2 manufacturer and PvP god ? Or are some of us allowed to play this sandbox game the way we want to ?
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.05.28 12:20:00 - [69] Originally by: skeljita More rats in level 4s just equal more isk for me Fewer Rats with Sleeper AI. = you actually have some risk to offset that wallet bulging Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.05.28 12:22:00 - [70] Originally by: Cal V The only reason you want lev 4 to low sec is because you see those ravens and typhoons and... fully equipped with nothing specific for PvP battle. You just want easy prey you don¦t want to PvP bunch of hypocrites. Sure, that's why Pirates live in Lowsec instead of Highsec Wardec or Ninjas Salvage and gank corps in Highsec. Thats also why Pirates don't fight amongst themselves and roam 0.0 'cause Lowsec is so depopulated Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
Connner Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.28 12:44:00 - [71] Originally by: RedSplat Originally by: skeljita More rats in level 4s just equal more isk for me Fewer Rats with Sleeper AI. = you actually have some risk to offset that wallet bulging Bulging wallet = bigger (or more) ships, badder mods. Missions and Plexes are how I fund my pvp. Trust me, my wallet is never bulging because I spend it as fast as I make it, thus enbiggining manufacturers wallets more than mine.
kiminara kittycat	Posted - 2009.05.28 13:00:00 - [72] Originally by: Kaivos You are playing the wrong game m8. This game is about Pvp. Thats what you think its about. I'm not sure CCP agrees with you seeing their last few patches. They have definitely made it where there is no real reason to leave hi-sec if you are a new player. Whether coincidentally or not, those game design decisions have sent the userbase skyrocketing.
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2009.05.28 13:27:00 - [73] How about, we remove bounties from missions rats, and then just give everybody who does lvl 4 missions a weekly salary so every body earns exactly the same! You simply have to do 1 mission a day for 7 days to get your salary, you could do your quota in 1 day, but doing more then 7 missions will not get you a bigger weekly salary, only the rewards from the mission themselves.(if you choose to do more than 7 missions a week, the salvage and loot, and mission rewards will have a 75% on them tax which will go to the eve noob ship fund. Next we need to tie in the ship and pod insurance into the salary system, so from now on 50% of your salary will be donated to your local friendly insurance company, this will automatically insure all t1 ships you might buy (with a maximum of up to 1 bs and 2 battle cruisers a week with a bronze payout) , and lastly there will be a pension fund created for another 25% of your weekly salary which will be used when eve is being retired by ccp, so that even though the servers will be offline you will still be able to spin your ships in station. 100 mill a week is on average (*completely arbitrarily chosen) what lvl 4 mission runners are supposed to earn, so deducting the 50% insurance and 25% pension funds you will earn 25 million isk a week or 100 mill a month. Everybody will be forced to be happy this way, and eve will be able to thrive for years to come.
Slave 2739FKZ	Posted - 2009.05.28 15:00:00 - [74] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Originally by: Kaivos Edited by: Kaivos on 28/05/2009 10:47:14 Originally by: Arthur Frayn Originally by: Kaivos Stuff I also checked out your battleclinic stats. One kill (Rupture), two losses (Iteron and a Hulk). I lol'd so hard. Where is your PvP now? WHERE IS IT? I'd lol harder if you weren't an alt. Oh, Mr. Detective. Yeah as the name says "Kaivos" which means a mine in Finnish. This is a full industrial, mission runner character (38mill sp). So I should be arguing with you not against you? Right? So when you are out of arguments you fail back to insults and lolling? Alt or not, you still PvE in a PvP game. So when you tell me that I'm doing it wrong by PvEing, it makes you a fool who deserves to be laughed at and mocked. Post with your PvP main, show me your daring exploits and then you might earn back some dignity. 90% of people (internetz statistics ftw) in this game either does pve or sells GTC for isk to pay for their pvp habits. Posers are just that, posers and trolls who want to look like "see how elite i am". Who the frack cares about lvl4's anyway. Game is there for having fun, ISK are just internet pixels, or are you isk sellers/buyers (losers in both cases)? People need to start realizing this is a game and not a second job. Games are made to have fun with. ISK are not a mean unless your game is about economic/financial success and then you're doign it wront if you're pve'ing or whatever as financial game is to be had on markets/secodnary markets & industry side of the game.
Kes Yogaila Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.05.28 15:34:00 - [75] Originally by: THE L0CK I'm cool with Sleeper AI mission rats. They should be able to rep each other as well. Now THAT would make a mission interesting. Caldari agree. Gallente do not.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.05.28 16:28:00 - [76] Originally by: Kes Yogaila Originally by: THE L0CK I'm cool with Sleeper AI mission rats. They should be able to rep each other as well. Now THAT would make a mission interesting. Caldari agree. Gallente do not. Well it would end the Dominix's career as an excellent mission boat, but Gallente still have blasters. Also battleship pilots wouldn't be able to rely on drones so much to take care of frigates. I think this would boost L4 difficulty nicely. You'd need a friend/alt in a heavily tanked Cerb with light missiles to join you. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Shaun Klaroh Caldari The Report Syndicate	Posted - 2009.05.28 20:36:00 - [77] Originally by: Kes Yogaila Originally by: THE L0CK I'm cool with Sleeper AI mission rats. They should be able to rep each other as well. Now THAT would make a mission interesting. Caldari agree. Gallente do not. This Caldari agrees. It'd be nice to see more than just DOCTOR OCTAGONAPUS BLOB! ----- Quote: "Are these people prisoners?" Arkhan asked. "Not at all," Melak replied. "They're free to run and get shot any time they like."
foobarx	Posted - 2009.05.28 22:00:00 - [78] Quote: I can't see why are you guys complaining about this? Why don't you go your self and make nice isk out of lvl4s if its so easy? Like Planktal says, they think if missions get nerfed all the carebears will run heedlessly into lowsec gate camps instead of what will really happen, which is the mission runners will go play one of the other space MMOs. Meh. If CCP stiffs half the player base like that they deserve to go out of business. I think what really needs to happen in gate sentry damage needs to be increased by about 10x. That way self-styled "pirates" would have to play the game instead of just sitting there blowing up new players.
Shoa Jinn	Posted - 2009.05.28 22:22:00 - [79] this whole thread made me lol
RaidenMagmus Darklore United	Posted - 2009.05.29 03:30:00 - [80] Meh, I just want to see missions available in Sov 0.0 to add a bit of variety without needing to go back to empire. More variety is good.
Margy	Posted - 2009.05.29 10:16:00 - [81] Originally by: Intense Thinker Moving all the missions to lowsec would make them a lot harder Specially for CCP to keep paying the roll... ;)
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.29 10:28:00 - [82] Compared to ratting in certain 0.0 areas , any highend 0.0 mining in a "safe" area or even effective cleanout of wormhole space missions are horribly time/income inefficient. And then one hasnt even looked at trading , scamming or large scale industry. "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound
Persephonis	Posted - 2009.05.29 12:10:00 - [83] Edited by: Persephonis on 29/05/2009 12:15:35 Edited by: Persephonis on 29/05/2009 12:14:40 Edited by: Persephonis on 29/05/2009 12:14:03 Edited by: Persephonis on 29/05/2009 12:11:17 I pay for this game with REAL MONEY. I'm never debating if my gaming time is efficient, profitable or whatever layman terms you're using. I mostly want to decide MYSELF for what I'm doing, that's why I mostly carebear and - although went to and fro some corp for some time - I returned to NPC corp. Why? Because I don't pay money for someone else to dictate me what to do and how to play. Especially when he's the one ripping me of instead of the other way around. However I will gladly endure losses after losses in a corp that would provide a wealthy influx of info about ANYTHING. However this never happened (or too little too late) so I returned to NPC corps. They're equally crappy about providing gaming info but at least they're not charging any percentage for not doing anything for your-average-corp-grunt. (and no, I will not want to learn by trial-and-error method, period.) Sorry for this lenghty rant but I've seen crappier requests regarding OTHER PLAYERS' TIME and MONEY which - IMO - should not be adressed at all. Some of you said you want exciting missions. Try then lvl 5s or go exploring wormholes. It's not your bussiness about how successful (or not) other players are. Some of you said you want a bigger playerbase mining instead of missioning. You know what? Start it yourselves - go and mine - if you're profitable enough, others may follow. But no, you mostly want SOMEONE ELSE doing this, not you. Some of you debate about time efficiency, ISK rewards, etc... you know what? If you have real money issues you probably need a better job. This is primarily a game, not your source of income. Some of you say it's too easy a game and you have lots of ISK. Know what? If it's too heavy a burden, why don't you just donate your stuff to newcomers and start all over again? I lost 5 battleships doing lvl 4 missions and my ingame ISK never went above 500 mil so I cannot compete with people with dual-accounts / afk missioning / scamming / whatever easy billion ISK made out of the blue. However I NEVER wanted to compete with those people anyway. I play this game the way it is and I don't care if you own 3 quarters of the galaxy. I'm the one paying for my account, not you (it's a generic "you" so try not to take it personally).
Traidor Disloyal Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.05.29 13:39:00 - [84] You can all ** and moan, moan and groan, cry and whine but CCP will never make level 4 missions harder to the point that people will leave. About two years ago they made em easier. They will not go back on something that a majority of people like doing in this game. And to tell the truth I never understood the hatred for level 4 mission runners. I like level 4 mission runners. Who cares if they make a lot of isk. Big deal. Get over it and move on, you'll live longer due to less stress. *********************************************** I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
kiminara kittycat	Posted - 2009.05.29 19:56:00 - [85] This is all you need to know about CCPs view of this topic http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=659 Lots more L4 agents in High Sec! I think this clearly shows CCPs thinking on the matter.
Arfvedson	Posted - 2009.05.29 21:25:00 - [86] Originally by: kiminara kittycat Edited by: kiminara kittycat on 29/05/2009 20:12:35 Edited by: kiminara kittycat on 29/05/2009 20:11:06 This is all you need to know about CCPs view of this topic Lots more L4 agents in High Sec! I think this clearly shows CCPs thinking on the matter. someone beat me to it :(

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