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LiveWire364	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:04:00 - [1] Seriously, all these off the wall schemes and **** are annoying. There is one easy way to fix it all - Make them harder. Be it more rats, rats are able to use drones, rats have sleeper AI, whatever, moving missions to lowsec is not viable, and making the isk/salvage less is also not viable. Making the missions harder is how it needs to be done.
Spurty Caldari Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:06:00 - [2] posting in a 'I know how to fix things' thread. Hi mum! Originally by: Infinity Ziona Thus I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
masternerdguy Gallente Point of No Return Blade.	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:07:00 - [3] I agree rats need sleeper AI! This way all you AFK drone missioners and Raven peepz will have to contend with something that can actually hurt you.
Discrodia Gallente Guild Navy Guild Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:07:00 - [4] How 'bout we just say **** it and 1/2 the value of the loot and salvage and payoff. That way we can mine in highsec and not feel like complete dweebs for making less than they do. ______________________________________________
LiveWire364	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:08:00 - [5] Originally by: Spurty Hi mum! Hey girl, hows college?
LiveWire364	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:08:00 - [6] Originally by: Discrodia How 'bout we just say **** it and 1/2 the value of the loot and salvage and payoff. That way we can mine in highsec and not feel like complete dweebs for making less than they do. No, because then we'd lose the influx of materials currently needed to sustain the economy. The only way to fix the problem is by making the missions harder.
masternerdguy Gallente Point of No Return Blade.	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:09:00 - [7] Originally by: LiveWire364 Originally by: Spurty Hi mum! Hey girl, hows college? shes not ur real mother! ITS A TRAP!
Darkerz Reloaded Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:18:00 - [8] Originally by: masternerdguy Originally by: LiveWire364 Originally by: Spurty Hi mum! Hey girl, hows college? shes not ur real mother! ITS A TRAP!
Spurty Caldari Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:19:00 - [9] I lolled Originally by: Infinity Ziona Thus I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:20:00 - [10] Moving all the missions to lowsec would make them a lot harder Pomp FTW!!!
Feilamya Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:23:00 - [11] Originally by: LiveWire364 No, because then we'd lose the influx of materials currently needed to sustain the economy. ... which would be good. The EVE economy is ruunning too fine anyway. Anything that runs fine is boring. This is a game for ****'s sake, it's supposed to be less boring than RL! Also, a shortage in minerals might revive 0.0 and lowsec mining, as well as 0.0-based industry.
THE L0CK	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:30:00 - [12] I'm cool with Sleeper AI mission rats. They should be able to rep each other as well. Now THAT would make a mission interesting.
Slave 2739FKZ	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:32:00 - [13] Hi.
LiveWire364	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:36:00 - [14] Originally by: Feilamya Originally by: LiveWire364 No, because then we'd lose the influx of materials currently needed to sustain the economy. ... which would be good. The EVE economy is ruunning too fine anyway. Anything that runs fine is boring. This is a game for ****'s sake, it's supposed to be less boring than RL! Also, a shortage in minerals might revive 0.0 and lowsec mining, as well as 0.0-based industry. How I see it, it would be quite the opposite. What little mining going on now, if you stop the economy, you stop everything. EVE is very similar to the real world economy, and look what happened when the real estate market fell in one country.. The entire world goes into a recession. Dropping a huge portion of how money is made in this game wouldn't help -- it would hurt. Immensely. The best way is to make the missions harder, so people have to work together instead of solo, and in the long run, revive industry in lowsec and 0.0, as the time required for missions would slowly make it's way up to a point where mining was more profitable. Going the route you suggested, effectively halving the amount of money made in the game currently, would cause tons of people to give up mission running totally, causing a huge decrease in the amount of minerals coming into the market, AND cause a spike in people giving up the game for a bit. In the long run I can see industry beginning to start up again, but I think the best route would just to be making missions harder.
Planktal Gallente Kenshao Industries	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:39:00 - [15] All these "nerf lvl4s" threads boils down to pirates wanting more easy targets to gank in lowsec, nothing more. Simple thing, the mission runners would either swtich to running lvl3 or run missions and mine them or just quit altogether. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:43:00 - [16] i think missions shouldn't require activities and just give you isk and LPs tbh, like research agents --
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:43:00 - [17] Originally by: LiveWire364 Seriously, all these off the wall schemes and ** are annoying. There is one easy way to fix it all - Make them harder. Be it more rats, rats are able to use drones, rats have sleeper AI, whatever, moving missions to lowsec is not viable, and making the isk/salvage less is also not viable. Making the missions harder is how it needs to be done. Smooth move exlax.. Drive off the 80% of the playerbase paying the server bills that enable us 20% to run around in this shiney world pew pewing away that we couldn't possibly begin to pay for without them. Why do people hate the peons tending to the fields so much? Originally by:** Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
LiveWire364	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:43:00 - [18] Edited by: LiveWire364 on 27/05/2009 22:44:16 Originally by: Planktal All these "nerf lvl4s" threads boils down to pirates wanting more easy targets to gank in lowsec, nothing more. Simple thing, the mission runners would either swtich to running lvl3 or run missions and mine them or just quit altogether. Good job reading the thread Originally by: Zeba Originally by: LiveWire364 Seriously, all these off the wall schemes and ** are annoying. There is one easy way to fix it all - Make them harder. Be it more rats, rats are able to use drones, rats have sleeper AI, whatever, moving missions to lowsec is not viable, and making the isk/salvage less is also not viable. Making the missions harder is how it needs to be done. Smooth move exlax.. Drive off the 80% of the playerbase paying the server bills that enable us 20% to run around in this shiney world pew pewing away that we couldn't possibly begin to pay for without them. Why do people hate the peons tending to the fields so much? On my main. I have less than 12m SP. I run level 4's solo. I can **ing AFK the missions they are that easy. They need to be made harder, not only to increase the fun you can have in the missions, but the challenge needs to be alligned with the reward.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:53:00 - [19] Originally by: LiveWire364 On my main. I have less than 12m SP. I run level 4's solo. I can **ing AFK the missions they are that easy. They need to be made harder, not only to increase the fun you can have in the missions, but the challenge needs to be alligned with the reward. You want a challange then go run missions in low sec or even better join faction war and run them in low sec. Otherwise you will just annoy the hordes of part time players that make up the bulk of eves subscribers to everyones ruin. But you know that already. Originally by:** Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
Spurty Caldari Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:59:00 - [20] Originally by: LiveWire364 On my main. I have less than 12m SP. Nice, can't find you in a single pvp engagement, so assuming you pvp with your alt Originally by: Infinity Ziona Thus I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.05.27 23:18:00 - [21] well cear bears whined about stuff and it get fixed the actual important part of eve the pvp'r are striking back for our own nerf bwhahahahahaa and we are as hell going to get empire isk making on par with being in empire. "what do we want , balanced level 4's. When do we want them . NOW" "what do we want , balanced level 4's. When do we want them . NOW" "what do we want , balanced level 4's. When do we want them . NOW" OFFLINE[ONLINE]
Rez Valintine Caldari HeXXeD	Posted - 2009.05.28 00:14:00 - [22] Edited by: Rez Valintine on 28/05/2009 00:16:27 Originally by: Feilamya Originally by: LiveWire364 No, because then we'd lose the influx of materials currently needed to sustain the economy. ... which would be good. The EVE economy is ruunning too fine anyway. Anything that runs fine is boring. This is a game for ****'s sake, it's supposed to be less boring than RL! Also, a shortage in minerals might revive 0.0 and lowsec mining, as well as 0.0-based industry. People who want to mine, are mining - people who want to PvP are PvPing. All you are suggesting is making things harder on yourself. Change the L4 missions and I suspect that the mission runners would jsut quit - because mission running is what they want to do, not PvP or mine. With CCP stating that 40% of minerals come from loot meltdowns, I would suspect that a bulk of that comes from the mission runners... So, all you are suggesting is making things more expensive for harder & you - as due to less minerals, prices would go up - and the next thing you know you are running missions to pay for your PvP gankage. I see a winner in this one..... Accept the fact that not everyone wants to play the game the way you do... I'd cancel before mining.
Jensen Blayloc Minmatar Galtech Alloy and Nanotech Group	Posted - 2009.05.28 00:21:00 - [23] Ok, you want them harder.. Reroll, and go Guns not drones. Use minmatar ships and have average tanking skills. I have 30 million SP and it takes 5 friggin hours to do the big level 4s. If it were any harder, I couldn't do them AT ALL. Course, I didn't train for a domi and drones.. Personally, I am a little skeptical that a 12 mil SP dude could AFK level 4s, but who knows. If the stuff bores you, here is an idea.. DON'T DO IT.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.05.28 00:54:00 - [24] I 100% agree that all NPCs should have decent AI, like the sleepers. Dumb NPCs is what makes missions boring. They should be a challenge instead of just resources to be harvested by shooting at them.
Drakan290	Posted - 2009.05.28 01:13:00 - [25] My main is Drakan290. It wouldn't be hard to find that out, and yes, I do PvP, mission running, Plexing, WHs, radar/mag sites and various other things with that character.
SweetHoney	Posted - 2009.05.28 02:48:00 - [26] Originally by: Kyra Felann I 100% agree that all NPCs should have decent AI, like the sleepers. Dumb NPCs is what makes missions boring. They should be a challenge instead of just resources to be harvested by shooting at them. Missions should be boring and easy.. Missions are there for make ISK for PVP. It is already a lot of grindig for ISK. If it takes double the time to make the same money that means peoples can't spend that time pvping .. Blowing things up. If stuffs don't get blowed up then that will hurt everyone in the game and believe me if ppl have to grind 10 hours for 1 BS+fitting then this game become a work not a game, It is already very close to call it a second job. (English is not my first language, sorry for errors)
Tara Moss	Posted - 2009.05.28 04:27:00 - [27] Like the real-world economy Eve is vulnerable to recession. The housing bubble was great at generating economic growth & development. Likewise, Level 4s promote industry & production by providing a constant stream of 'cheap' Isk & materials. Removing this would decrease economic activity in Eve and hurt pvp in the process by making things more expensive. It is far preferable to have a little inflation than drop the recession bomb in-game.
Kaivos Pyydys	Posted - 2009.05.28 06:20:00 - [28] Originally by: LiveWire364 On my main. I have less than 12m SP. I run level 4's solo. I can **ing AFK the missions they are that easy. They need to be made harder, not only to increase the fun you can have in the missions, but the challenge needs to be alligned with the reward. I don't want missions to be fun. I want them to be good and preferably fast way to make isk so I can pvp. And the challenge is the time spend to do missions. Who gives a rats ass if they are easy. They still take _TIME_**. If you make it harder, my deadspace complex pimped golem will still run them with ease but many noob ships will not. And that gives those people less money to pvp and less targets you pvp griefers. And less materials for economy which makes ships more expensive. If you want fun and hard pve experience go hunt sleepers to wormhole. THINK BEYOND YOUR OWN SELFISH MEMEMEMEME ATTITUDE.
Sniper Wolf18 Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.28 06:35:00 - [29] Originally by: Kaivos Originally by: LiveWire364 On my main. I have less than 12m SP. I run level 4's solo. I can ****ing AFK the missions they are that easy. They need to be made harder, not only to increase the fun you can have in the missions, but the challenge needs to be alligned with the reward. If you want fun and hard pve experience go hunt sleepers to wormhole. why, level 4's are much more profitible when you factor in the risk, which is why they need fixed. And to finish, thank you for reading my sig -------------------------------------------------- If you are still reading i would probably hav posted by now
Kaivos Pyydys	Posted - 2009.05.28 07:05:00 - [30] Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 why, level 4's are much more profitible when you factor in the risk, which is why they need fixed. It's like this. You do something to get payed. Like going to work irl. lvl4 missions are kinda same. You do it. It takes time and you get payed. You are trading your time to isk. GET IT? There are risks but rich players minimize them by utilizing best ships and best modules. Is the problem because the missions are in high sec space? I can't see why are you guys complaining about this? Why don't you go your self and make nice isk out of lvl4s if its so easy?
Vanzatoarea	Posted - 2009.05.28 07:09:00 - [31] Originally by: SweetHoney Originally by: Kyra Felann I 100% agree that all NPCs should have decent AI, like the sleepers. Dumb NPCs is what makes missions boring. They should be a challenge instead of just resources to be harvested by shooting at them. Missions should be boring and easy.. Missions are there for make ISK for PVP. It is already a lot of grindig for ISK. If it takes double the time to make the same money that means peoples can't spend that time pvping .. Blowing things up. If stuffs don't get blowed up then that will hurt everyone in the game and believe me if ppl have to grind 10 hours for 1 BS+fitting then this game become a work not a game, It is already very close to call it a second job. (English is not my first language, sorry for errors) I disagree we allready have waay to much easy isk in game you think it would be bad if a BS loss would set someone back 2-3 days? I dont , in fact I`d like that , it would mean something when i kill one or when i lose one As it stands 3 days of hardcore missioning yelds me 1 - 1.2 bill easy....that`s silly And i am willing to bet that 80% of the people do not live in highsec and most certanly do not LIKE missions . But hey , i had 2 alts in highsec missioning and 1 trading/mining untill not to long ago so yeah....2 of my 3 accounts were stuck in highsec because it`s there where the isk is. That doesnt mean though that I dont hate the crap out of missions or that I wouldnt celebrate if all combat missions were moved out of highsec . I wonder how my sittuations mirrors the overall EvE situation reguarding Empire population. Final point : CCP should at least give us the tool to fight our enemy , after all this is EvE . Atm one of my bigest enemy is the highse generic mission runner making my 0.0 time worth a lot less then i would like it to be worth . Shouldnt there be any way of ...stoping him?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.28 07:15:00 - [32] Originally by: LiveWire364 Originally by: Discrodia How 'bout we just say **** it and 1/2 the value of the loot and salvage and payoff. That way we can mine in highsec and not feel like complete dweebs for making less than they do. No, because then we'd lose the influx of materials currently needed to sustain the economy. The only way to fix the problem is by making the missions harder. Now I'm all confused! Are we supposed to be against nerfing missions because they don't really produce enough stuffs to make a difference or are we against nerfing them because they produce so much everyone depends on them?
Kaivos Pyydys	Posted - 2009.05.28 07:17:00 - [33] Originally by: Vanzatoarea Missions should be boring and easy.. Missions are there for make ISK for PVP. It is already a lot of grindig for ISK. If it takes double the time to make the same money that means peoples can't spend that time pvping .. Blowing things up. If stuffs don't get blowed up then that will hurt everyone in the game and believe me if ppl have to grind 10 hours for 1 BS+fitting then this game become a work not a game, It is already very close to call it a second job. (English is not my first language, sorry for errors) I disagree we allready have waay to much easy isk in game you think it would be bad if a BS loss would set someone back 2-3 days? I dont , in fact I`d like that , it would mean something when i kill one or when i lose one As it stands 3 days of hardcore missioning yelds me 1 - 1.2 bill easy....that`s silly And i am willing to bet that 80% of the people do not live in highsec and most certanly do not LIKE missions . But hey , i had 2 alts in highsec missioning and 1 trading/mining untill not to long ago so yeah....2 of my 3 accounts were stuck in highsec because it`s there where the isk is. That doesnt mean though that I dont hate the crap out of missions or that I wouldnt celebrate if all combat missions were moved out of highsec . I wonder how my sittuations mirrors the overall EvE situation reguarding Empire population. Final point : CCP should at least give us the tool to fight our enemy , after all this is EvE . Atm one of my bigest enemy is the highse generic mission runner making my 0.0 time worth a lot less then i would like it to be worth . Shouldnt there be any way of ...stoping him? Hahahaahaahaaha you are hilarious. Are you actually saying that you fail to make more money in 0.0 than in empire missions with your 4 ****ing accounts?
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.05.28 07:20:00 - [34] I heard from a friend who started playing Eve long before me that in the early days, L4's were utterly brutal. He wowed me with tales of his corp losing a small fleet of Ravens and RRing Scorpions to a single Guristas extravaganza. I joined later as level 4s were slowly being made easier. There was a time I can recall before Revelations that Soloing a decent level 4 was a little too tough for a single BS to do. Bring those days back. I want the sky to light up with missiles, lasers and blasters again. I want to see my permarunning XL shieldbooster unable to cut the mustard anymore. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Kaivos Pyydys	Posted - 2009.05.28 07:22:00 - [35] Originally by: Arthur Frayn I heard from a friend who started playing Eve long before me that in the early days, L4's were utterly brutal. He wowed me with tales of his corp losing a small fleet of Ravens and RRing Scorpions to a single Guristas extravaganza. I joined later as level 4s were slowly being made easier. There was a time I can recall before Revelations that Soloing a decent level 4 was a little too tough for a single BS to do. Bring those days back. I want the sky to light up with missiles, lasers and blasters again. I want to see my permarunning XL shieldbooster unable to cut the mustard anymore. Go do lvl5s you numnuts.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.05.28 07:25:00 - [36] Originally by: Kaivos Go do lvl5s you numnuts. I do them already. I also get scanned down regularly and have to abandon them for a few hours most of the time, shit-for-brains. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Kaivos Pyydys	Posted - 2009.05.28 07:28:00 - [37] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Originally by: Kaivos Go do lvl5s you numnuts. I do them already. I also get scanned down regularly and have to abandon them for a few hours most of the time, shit-for-brains. What's wrong with them then? Too low risk? You make too much isk? Your xl-booster solos those too? what?
Vanzatoarea	Posted - 2009.05.28 07:31:00 - [38] Originally by: Kaivos Originally by: Vanzatoarea Missions should be boring and easy.. Missions are there for make ISK for PVP. It is already a lot of grindig for ISK. If it takes double the time to make the same money that means peoples can't spend that time pvping .. Blowing things up. If stuffs don't get blowed up then that will hurt everyone in the game and believe me if ppl have to grind 10 hours for 1 BS+fitting then this game become a work not a game, It is already very close to call it a second job. (English is not my first language, sorry for errors) I disagree we allready have waay to much easy isk in game you think it would be bad if a BS loss would set someone back 2-3 days? I dont , in fact I`d like that , it would mean something when i kill one or when i lose one As it stands 3 days of hardcore missioning yelds me 1 - 1.2 bill easy....that`s silly And i am willing to bet that 80% of the people do not live in highsec and most certanly do not LIKE missions . But hey , i had 2 alts in highsec missioning and 1 trading/mining untill not to long ago so yeah....2 of my 3 accounts were stuck in highsec because it`s there where the isk is. That doesnt mean though that I dont hate the crap out of missions or that I wouldnt celebrate if all combat missions were moved out of highsec . I wonder how my sittuations mirrors the overall EvE situation reguarding Empire population. Final point : CCP should at least give us the tool to fight our enemy , after all this is EvE . Atm one of my bigest enemy is the highse generic mission runner making my 0.0 time worth a lot less then i would like it to be worth . Shouldnt there be any way of ...stoping him? Hahahaahaahaaha you are hilarious. Are you actually saying that you fail to make more money in 0.0 than in empire missions with your 4 ****ing accounts? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- sort of yeah i mean i cant make money 100% of my game time at a rate of 40m/hour or more in 0.0 you know...other peoplemay have something to say about that
Kaivos Pyydys	Posted - 2009.05.28 07:36:00 - [39] Originally by: Vanzatoarea sort of yeah i mean i cant make money 100% of my game time at a rate of 40m/hour or more in 0.0 you know...other peoplemay have something to say about that The thing is. You don't know how to make more than 40m/hour(exaggerated) in 0.0. Don't blame the rest of us for your lack knowledge.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.05.28 08:02:00 - [40] Originally by: LiveWire364 How I see it, it would be quite the opposite. What little mining going on now, if you stop the economy, you stop everything. Previous experiences in trying to artificially affect mining has shown that there is a huge untapped mining capacity the currently lies dormant. Removing the influx of materials from missions would have exactly one effect: people would start mining again and the economy wouldn't skip a beat. Quote: Dropping a huge portion of how money is made in this game wouldn't help -- it would hurt. Immensely. The best way is to make the missions harder, so people have to work together instead of solo, …which means that overnight, you've cut the money influx you're talking about down to half or one third or one tenth (depending on fleet size) of what it is now. It would be the biggest nerf to missions you could ever imagine, short of removing them entirely, and yes, it would certainly collapse the economy. Quote: Going the route you suggested, effectively halving the amount of money made in the game currently, would cause tons of people to give up mission running totally, causing a huge decrease in the amount of minerals coming into the market, AND cause a spike in people giving up the game for a bit. Yes, that's exactly what would happen if you forced people to use fleets for missions. It also doesn't address the actual problem: that money-creation through missions is an entirely static system without any (useful) self-balancing mechanisms that exists completely outside of and separate to the fundamental mechanics that regulate all other ISK- and item-creation mechanics in the game. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Reven Cordelle Caldari Yamainu-Mirai Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.05.28 08:19:00 - [41] Well, this isn't contradictive at all.
Kaivos Pyydys	Posted - 2009.05.28 08:32:00 - [42] Originally by: Reven Cordelle Well, this isn't contradictive at all. Yeah, you know why that is? Because the real reasons behind the whine are very different from what you are trying to argue.
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.05.28 09:15:00 - [43] Edited by: TraininVain on 28/05/2009 09:16:21 Originally by: SweetHoney Originally by: Kyra Felann I 100% agree that all NPCs should have decent AI, like the sleepers. Dumb NPCs is what makes missions boring. They should be a challenge instead of just resources to be harvested by shooting at them. Missions should be boring and easy.. Missions are there for make ISK for PVP. It is already a lot of grindig for ISK. If it takes double the time to make the same money that means peoples can't spend that time pvping .. Blowing things up. If stuffs don't get blowed up then that will hurt everyone in the game and believe me if ppl have to grind 10 hours for 1 BS+fitting then this game become a work not a game, It is already very close to call it a second job. (English is not my first language, sorry for errors) Yeah. This tbh. The non-PVP stuff in EVE is just not that interesting. Profitable PVP looks dullll (station camping people who never undock, gatecamping, ransoming pods instead of popping them). I also think it's a bit rich for the already rich to be all in favour of nerfing income sources that favour newer players. It's every bit as self serving as people like me who like the easy ISK
Dramaan	Posted - 2009.05.28 09:16:00 - [44] Originally by: Kaivos Edited by: Kaivos on 28/05/2009 07:37:50 Originally by: Vanzatoarea sort of yeah i mean i cant make money 100% of my game time at a rate of 40m/hour or more in 0.0 you know...other peoplemay have something to say about that The thing is. You don't know how to make more than 40m/hour(exaggerated) in 0.0. Don't blame the rest of us for your lack knowledge. edit:: And nobody wants to make isk 100% of their game time. Because its boring ****. You now why mission is boring lack challenge. So why not make them harer so you have to co op whit another player. Make mission fun is posible to is only make the right story line for the mission, help other npc faction in difficulties in mission to so you need to have remote rep frendly npc.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.05.28 09:20:00 - [45] Originally by: Kaivos Originally by: Arthur Frayn Originally by: Kaivos Go do lvl5s you numnuts. I do them already. I also get scanned down regularly and have to abandon them for a few hours most of the time, shit-for-brains. What's wrong with them then? Too low risk? You make too much isk? Your xl-booster solos those too? what? I don't grind missions for money. I want to keep enjoying the game. Level 5's have a good amount of PvE risk and enjoyment. But I don't like to mix PvE and PvP, so when I regularly get scanned down and torn a new one by a roaming gang on the days my reflexes aren't fast enough to hit warp, it tends to put me off running them. You seem to have taken me for a carebear because I want PvE to be harder. Much anger and little logic there is in you. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Reven Cordelle Caldari Yamainu-Mirai Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.05.28 09:21:00 - [46] Originally by: Kaivos Originally by: Reven Cordelle Well, this isn't contradictive at all. Yeah, you know why that is? Because the real reasons behind the whine are very different from what you are trying to argue. What am I trying to argue? I'm just making a fleeting statement.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.05.28 09:23:00 - [47] Originally by: Reven Cordelle Originally by: Kaivos Originally by: Reven Cordelle Well, this isn't contradictive at all. Yeah, you know why that is? Because the real reasons behind the whine are very different from what you are trying to argue. What am I trying to argue? I'm just making a fleeting statement. Ever heard of "angry little man" syndrome? He reminds me of that. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.05.28 09:25:00 - [48] Originally by: Dramaan Originally by: Kaivos Edited by: Kaivos on 28/05/2009 07:37:50 Originally by: Vanzatoarea sort of yeah i mean i cant make money 100% of my game time at a rate of 40m/hour or more in 0.0 you know...other peoplemay have something to say about that The thing is. You don't know how to make more than 40m/hour(exaggerated) in 0.0. Don't blame the rest of us for your lack knowledge. edit:: And nobody wants to make isk 100% of their game time. Because its boring ****. You now why mission is boring lack challenge. So why not make them harer so you have to co op whit another player. Make mission fun is posible to is only make the right story line for the mission, help other npc faction in difficulties in mission to so you need to have remote rep frendly npc. Running missions with another player (which I have been doing to boost my corpies standing) isn't that fun either. It really doesn't add anything to the process and somehow actually makes salvaging boringer.
Kaivos Pyydys	Posted - 2009.05.28 09:47:00 - [49] Originally by: Arthur Frayn I don't grind missions for money. I want to keep enjoying the game. Level 5's have a good amount of PvE risk and enjoyment. But I don't like to mix PvE and PvP, so when I regularly get scanned down and torn a new one by a roaming gang on the days my reflexes aren't fast enough to hit warp, it tends to put me off running them. You seem to have taken me for a carebear because I want PvE to be harder. Much anger and little logic there is in you. You are playing the wrong game m8. This game is about Pvp.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.05.28 09:55:00 - [50] Originally by: Kaivos Originally by: Arthur Frayn I don't grind missions for money. I want to keep enjoying the game. Level 5's have a good amount of PvE risk and enjoyment. But I don't like to mix PvE and PvP, so when I regularly get scanned down and torn a new one by a roaming gang on the days my reflexes aren't fast enough to hit warp, it tends to put me off running them. You seem to have taken me for a carebear because I want PvE to be harder. Much anger and little logic there is in you. You are playing the wrong game m8. This game is about Pvp. You are barking up the wrong tree, m8. I do PvP. I love it. I also do PvE when there's no decent PvP to be had, so I want my PvE to be difficult and exciting. This game is about whatever the hell I want it to be about. Grow up. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.28 10:06:00 - [51] Originally by: Kaivos Originally by: Arthur Frayn I don't grind missions for money. I want to keep enjoying the game. Level 5's have a good amount of PvE risk and enjoyment. But I don't like to mix PvE and PvP, so when I regularly get scanned down and torn a new one by a roaming gang on the days my reflexes aren't fast enough to hit warp, it tends to put me off running them. You seem to have taken me for a carebear because I want PvE to be harder. Much anger and little logic there is in you. You are playing the wrong game m8. This game is about Pvp. At some point, some PvE has to be done to generate replacement ISK & materials. There is no reason at all that it shouldn't be interesting, challenging and fun. On the other hand, there is no reason that it should not be subject to competition. PvE and PvP are not seperate, and cannot be seperated.
MILK Monk Knights of the Silver Dawn Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.28 10:09:00 - [52] imo, missions in Low sec would be fine if they would not work so much against the one who take them. When you are in mission, all rats locked on you and pirate will warp in, you are very easy target. If rats in low sec would have Sleeper-like-AI (not their tank&gank) they would lock on new target who just appeared in grid (hello pirate), they would kill his drones... Pirates would have to think twice before they risk it. Also it would make sense that rats in low sec are a bit more "inteligent" than high-sec ones... but maybe I am wrong... it is long time since my last mission run... :) __________________________________ I do it myyyy wayyyy... Milky Way.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.05.28 10:10:00 - [53] Originally by: Kaivos Stuff I also checked out your battleclinic stats. One kill (Rupture), two losses (Iteron and a Hulk). I lol'd so hard. Where is your PvP now? WHERE IS IT? I'd lol harder if you weren't an alt. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Nocturnal Avenger x13	Posted - 2009.05.28 10:11:00 - [54] Originally by: Jensen Blayloc I have 30 million SP and it takes 5 friggin hours to do the big level 4s. If it were any harder, I couldn't do them AT ALL. Course, I didn't train for a domi and drones.. Personally, I am a little skeptical that a 12 mil SP dude could AFK level 4s, but who knows. An arbalest cruise raven with t2 shield tank and t2 bcu can do almost any level 4. It can be done with less than 2M sp (learning excluded). Tested and tried btw. - Carebear Pirate -
Kaivos Pyydys	Posted - 2009.05.28 10:47:00 - [55] Edited by: Kaivos on 28/05/2009 10:47:14 Originally by: Arthur Frayn Originally by: Kaivos Stuff I also checked out your battleclinic stats. One kill (Rupture), two losses (Iteron and a Hulk). I lol'd so hard. Where is your PvP now? WHERE IS IT? I'd lol harder if you weren't an alt. Oh, Mr. Detective. Yeah as the name says "Kaivos" which means a mine in Finnish. This is a full industrial, mission runner character (38mill sp). So I should be arguing with you not against you? Right? So when you are out of arguments you fail back to insults and lolling?
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.05.28 10:56:00 - [56] Originally by: Kaivos Edited by: Kaivos on 28/05/2009 10:47:14 Originally by: Arthur Frayn Originally by: Kaivos Stuff I also checked out your battleclinic stats. One kill (Rupture), two losses (Iteron and a Hulk). I lol'd so hard. Where is your PvP now? WHERE IS IT? I'd lol harder if you weren't an alt. Oh, Mr. Detective. Yeah as the name says "Kaivos" which means a mine in Finnish. This is a full industrial, mission runner character (38mill sp). So I should be arguing with you not against you? Right? So when you are out of arguments you fail back to insults and lolling? Alt or not, you still PvE in a PvP game. So when you tell me that I'm doing it wrong by PvEing, it makes you a fool who deserves to be laughed at and mocked. Post with your PvP main, show me your daring exploits and then you might earn back some dignity. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Karentaki Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.28 10:56:00 - [57] Originally by: LiveWire364 Originally by: Discrodia How 'bout we just say ** it and 1/2 the value of the loot and salvage and payoff. That way we can mine in highsec and not feel like complete dweebs for making less than they do. No, because then we'd lose the influx of materials currently needed to sustain the economy. The only way to fix the problem is by making the missions harder. So you are basing that on what? The assumption that people who run missions will all keep running missions, and nobody will start mining again? WRONG! If L4 missions were halved in value, then minerals would go up in price making mining worth while. This would encourage more people to mine, restoring balance, albeit at a slightly higher price. I for one wouldn't mind paying a bit more for my ships as long as I knew that everyone else was paying more too. Quote:** EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Kaivos Pyydys	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:04:00 - [58] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Alt or not, you still PvE in a PvP game. So when you tell me that I'm doing it wrong by PvEing, it makes you a fool who deserves to be laughed at and mocked. Post with your PvP main, show me your daring exploits and then you might earn back some dignity. Go back and read my posts. Where I explain the purpose of missions on my point of view. I don't see any lose of dignity. You are just trying to troll your way through this by making this personal. But you still have to give me credit for killing that rupture with a ****ing industrial character =D I actually take bride in that.
Kaivos Pyydys	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:07:00 - [59] Originally by: Karentaki So you are basing that on what? The assumption that people who run missions will all keep running missions, and nobody will start mining again? WRONG! If L4 missions were halved in value, then minerals would go up in price making mining worth while. This would encourage more people to mine, restoring balance, albeit at a slightly higher price. I for one wouldn't mind paying a bit more for my ships as long as I knew that everyone else was paying more too. So basically you are saying that you want to do more boring stuff and less fun stuff? Aka. More missions/mining and less pvp. I dont share your point of view.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:12:00 - [60] Originally by: Kaivos Originally by: Arthur Frayn Alt or not, you still PvE in a PvP game. So when you tell me that I'm doing it wrong by PvEing, it makes you a fool who deserves to be laughed at and mocked. Post with your PvP main, show me your daring exploits and then you might earn back some dignity. Go back and read my posts. Where I explain the purpose of missions on my point of view. I don't see any lose of dignity. You are just trying to troll your way through this by making this personal. But you still have to give me credit for killing that rupture with a ****ing industrial character =D I actually take bride in that. You are playing the wrong game m8. This game is about Pvp. And who made it personal first? You did, "numbnuts". My killboard stats are pretty weak but they prove I PvP and enjoy it. You don't know anything about PvP. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:14:00 - [61] I would be curious to find out just how much of the "40% of minerals come from reprocessed loot" loot is actually modules/ammo manufactured for the purpose of mineral compression.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:17:00 - [62] Originally by: Mara Rinn I would be curious to find out just how much of the "40% of minerals come from reprocessed loot" loot is actually modules/ammo manufactured for the purpose of mineral compression. Reprocessed loot needs to be eliminated from all missions. Since all that trit is hard to move, it's easy to build a battleship from a bpc every few days with all the garbage loot and sell it on market. It's criminal. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Cal V	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:20:00 - [63] The only reason you want lev 4 to low sec is because you see those ravens and typhoons and... fully equipped with nothing specific for PvP battle. You just want easy prey you don¦t want to PvP bunch of hypocrites.
Connner Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:26:00 - [64] IMO there is nothing wrong w/ missions as they are. Belive it or not there are people who actually enjoy them and do not think they are boreing. EVE is PvP based, yes. But that doesn't always mean its traditional ship to ship or fleet to fleet slobberknockers. PVP is also in the market place, and ninja salvaging and so forth. Missions are also an nice quick and easy way to generate enough isk to fund PVP. Especially for learning the ropes when you arn't very good and end up w/ a lot of smokeing heaps from failed excursions. Final point. I have a feeling the vast majority of people wo just do misssions will be severely turned off the game if any of these whines get implimented. Especially the 'move L4's to lowsec'. Missioners will just do level 3's. If the difficulty is upped to where you can't solo one in a BS they will just save up for a maurader or something that can tank it.
Kaivos Pyydys	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:41:00 - [65] Originally by: Connner IMO there is nothing wrong w/ missions as they are. Belive it or not there are people who actually enjoy them and do not think they are boreing. EVE is PvP based, yes. But that doesn't always mean its traditional ship to ship or fleet to fleet slobberknockers. PVP is also in the market place, and ninja salvaging and so forth. Missions are also an nice quick and easy way to generate enough isk to fund PVP. Especially for learning the ropes when you arn't very good and end up w/ a lot of smokeing heaps from failed excursions. Final point. I have a feeling the vast majority of people wo just do misssions will be severely turned off the game if any of these whines get implimented. Especially the 'move L4's to lowsec'. Missioners will just do level 3's. If the difficulty is upped to where you can't solo one in a BS they will just save up for a maurader or something that can tank it. I agree. hmm. I think one of the points in this discussion is that lvl4s are too easy. If you have played this game lets say 1-2 years or more. Those missions should be easy with wast amounts of SPs generated throughout the years. Somebody said that lvl4 can be done with couple of million SPs, but sure as hell its not easy. There are more challenging stuff ingame like wormhole exploration and lvl5s for those who like challenge and do PVE for some other reason besides funding pvp. Then the folks who want lvl4s moved to lowsec. That is just hypocritical. Those people just want easy pvp targets.
Zey Nadar Gallente Stormwatch Galactic	Posted - 2009.05.28 11:45:00 - [66] Edited by: Zey Nadar on 28/05/2009 11:46:40 Originally by: Kaivos You are playing the wrong game m8. This game is about Pvp. Its about player interaction, not necessarily PVP combat only. But all PvE resources should be contestable, thats my opinion. Also, lot of the so-called challenging PvE stuff (like wormholes) arent that profitable unless you got several other people working with you. Theres a lot of people who cant get over the idea of soloing.
skeljita	Posted - 2009.05.28 12:07:00 - [67] More rats in level 4s just equal more isk for me
RiddeledCorpse Ur-Quan Amen Anera	Posted - 2009.05.28 12:08:00 - [68] EvE is about PvP yes i agree, how are you paying for your PvP experience ? I pay for mine by running lvl 4 missions and building ships with the loot so that i can loose them in lowsec or 0.0 against the elite PvP master with his 20 friends, who then find it funny because i jumped through in my fail tech 2 fitted BS. Then they come to the forums to show their dissatisfaction with my income ? If you do any type of tech 2 manufacturing or invention then you earn more than me, I am just a casual player that does not spend all my time on eve. Take away my income and you will see even less PvP as it will now take me and the rest of the EvE players, that PvP on a lvl 4 budget, twice as long to fit the next ship. Maybe we should nerf it in a different way, the more you are worth the less isk you make. That would balance everything. Or even better, lets not gain standing with a faction when running missions lets rather loose standing that way the more mission you run you have to down grade from lvl 4 to lvl 3. That suggestion is just as silly as telling me i have to PvP more because lvl 4 missions makes me easy isk. I don't enjoy running missions but it sure beats the hell out of mining to feed my PvP budget. Just because you have a large wallet does not mean i have. Just because you can make billions in a couple of days, not from where i'm standing btw, does not mean I'm making the same isk. I play for the enjoyment, your angry at everyone that is better off than you and me, so instead of trying to punish them for being better you just want to swing the large nerf bat and let everyone suffer. Additionally if lvl 4 missions become harder and it becomes easier and more profitable to mine, what makes you think any one will continue to run missions, I can see it already "o no, everyone is mining instead of PvP'ing and giving me easy ganks and cheap faction ammo, it must be stopped at all cost, to the forums" tldr version Please stop trying to nerf my PvP because your PvP is to difficult for you or boring. Must everyone jump from noob to expert tech 2 manufacturer and PvP god ? Or are some of us allowed to play this sandbox game the way we want to ?
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.05.28 12:20:00 - [69] Originally by: skeljita More rats in level 4s just equal more isk for me Fewer Rats with Sleeper AI. = you actually have some risk to offset that wallet bulging Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.05.28 12:22:00 - [70] Originally by: Cal V The only reason you want lev 4 to low sec is because you see those ravens and typhoons and... fully equipped with nothing specific for PvP battle. You just want easy prey you don¦t want to PvP bunch of hypocrites. Sure, that's why Pirates live in Lowsec instead of Highsec Wardec or Ninjas Salvage and gank corps in Highsec. Thats also why Pirates don't fight amongst themselves and roam 0.0 'cause Lowsec is so depopulated Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
Connner Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.28 12:44:00 - [71] Originally by: RedSplat Originally by: skeljita More rats in level 4s just equal more isk for me Fewer Rats with Sleeper AI. = you actually have some risk to offset that wallet bulging Bulging wallet = bigger (or more) ships, badder mods. Missions and Plexes are how I fund my pvp. Trust me, my wallet is never bulging because I spend it as fast as I make it, thus enbiggining manufacturers wallets more than mine.
kiminara kittycat	Posted - 2009.05.28 13:00:00 - [72] Originally by: Kaivos You are playing the wrong game m8. This game is about Pvp. Thats what you think its about. I'm not sure CCP agrees with you seeing their last few patches. They have definitely made it where there is no real reason to leave hi-sec if you are a new player. Whether coincidentally or not, those game design decisions have sent the userbase skyrocketing.
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2009.05.28 13:27:00 - [73] How about, we remove bounties from missions rats, and then just give everybody who does lvl 4 missions a weekly salary so every body earns exactly the same! You simply have to do 1 mission a day for 7 days to get your salary, you could do your quota in 1 day, but doing more then 7 missions will not get you a bigger weekly salary, only the rewards from the mission themselves.(if you choose to do more than 7 missions a week, the salvage and loot, and mission rewards will have a 75% on them tax which will go to the eve noob ship fund. Next we need to tie in the ship and pod insurance into the salary system, so from now on 50% of your salary will be donated to your local friendly insurance company, this will automatically insure all t1 ships you might buy (with a maximum of up to 1 bs and 2 battle cruisers a week with a bronze payout) , and lastly there will be a pension fund created for another 25% of your weekly salary which will be used when eve is being retired by ccp, so that even though the servers will be offline you will still be able to spin your ships in station. 100 mill a week is on average (*completely arbitrarily chosen) what lvl 4 mission runners are supposed to earn, so deducting the 50% insurance and 25% pension funds you will earn 25 million isk a week or 100 mill a month. Everybody will be forced to be happy this way, and eve will be able to thrive for years to come.
Slave 2739FKZ	Posted - 2009.05.28 15:00:00 - [74] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Originally by: Kaivos Edited by: Kaivos on 28/05/2009 10:47:14 Originally by: Arthur Frayn Originally by: Kaivos Stuff I also checked out your battleclinic stats. One kill (Rupture), two losses (Iteron and a Hulk). I lol'd so hard. Where is your PvP now? WHERE IS IT? I'd lol harder if you weren't an alt. Oh, Mr. Detective. Yeah as the name says "Kaivos" which means a mine in Finnish. This is a full industrial, mission runner character (38mill sp). So I should be arguing with you not against you? Right? So when you are out of arguments you fail back to insults and lolling? Alt or not, you still PvE in a PvP game. So when you tell me that I'm doing it wrong by PvEing, it makes you a fool who deserves to be laughed at and mocked. Post with your PvP main, show me your daring exploits and then you might earn back some dignity. 90% of people (internetz statistics ftw) in this game either does pve or sells GTC for isk to pay for their pvp habits. Posers are just that, posers and trolls who want to look like "see how elite i am". Who the frack cares about lvl4's anyway. Game is there for having fun, ISK are just internet pixels, or are you isk sellers/buyers (losers in both cases)? People need to start realizing this is a game and not a second job. Games are made to have fun with. ISK are not a mean unless your game is about economic/financial success and then you're doign it wront if you're pve'ing or whatever as financial game is to be had on markets/secodnary markets & industry side of the game.
Kes Yogaila Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.05.28 15:34:00 - [75] Originally by: THE L0CK I'm cool with Sleeper AI mission rats. They should be able to rep each other as well. Now THAT would make a mission interesting. Caldari agree. Gallente do not.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.05.28 16:28:00 - [76] Originally by: Kes Yogaila Originally by: THE L0CK I'm cool with Sleeper AI mission rats. They should be able to rep each other as well. Now THAT would make a mission interesting. Caldari agree. Gallente do not. Well it would end the Dominix's career as an excellent mission boat, but Gallente still have blasters. Also battleship pilots wouldn't be able to rely on drones so much to take care of frigates. I think this would boost L4 difficulty nicely. You'd need a friend/alt in a heavily tanked Cerb with light missiles to join you. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Shaun Klaroh Caldari The Report Syndicate	Posted - 2009.05.28 20:36:00 - [77] Originally by: Kes Yogaila Originally by: THE L0CK I'm cool with Sleeper AI mission rats. They should be able to rep each other as well. Now THAT would make a mission interesting. Caldari agree. Gallente do not. This Caldari agrees. It'd be nice to see more than just DOCTOR OCTAGONAPUS BLOB! ----- Quote: "Are these people prisoners?" Arkhan asked. "Not at all," Melak replied. "They're free to run and get shot any time they like."
foobarx	Posted - 2009.05.28 22:00:00 - [78] Quote: I can't see why are you guys complaining about this? Why don't you go your self and make nice isk out of lvl4s if its so easy? Like Planktal says, they think if missions get nerfed all the carebears will run heedlessly into lowsec gate camps instead of what will really happen, which is the mission runners will go play one of the other space MMOs. Meh. If CCP stiffs half the player base like that they deserve to go out of business. I think what really needs to happen in gate sentry damage needs to be increased by about 10x. That way self-styled "pirates" would have to play the game instead of just sitting there blowing up new players.
Shoa Jinn	Posted - 2009.05.28 22:22:00 - [79] this whole thread made me lol
RaidenMagmus Darklore United	Posted - 2009.05.29 03:30:00 - [80] Meh, I just want to see missions available in Sov 0.0 to add a bit of variety without needing to go back to empire. More variety is good.
Margy	Posted - 2009.05.29 10:16:00 - [81] Originally by: Intense Thinker Moving all the missions to lowsec would make them a lot harder Specially for CCP to keep paying the roll... ;)
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.29 10:28:00 - [82] Compared to ratting in certain 0.0 areas , any highend 0.0 mining in a "safe" area or even effective cleanout of wormhole space missions are horribly time/income inefficient. And then one hasnt even looked at trading , scamming or large scale industry. "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound
Persephonis	Posted - 2009.05.29 12:10:00 - [83] Edited by: Persephonis on 29/05/2009 12:15:35 Edited by: Persephonis on 29/05/2009 12:14:40 Edited by: Persephonis on 29/05/2009 12:14:03 Edited by: Persephonis on 29/05/2009 12:11:17 I pay for this game with REAL MONEY. I'm never debating if my gaming time is efficient, profitable or whatever layman terms you're using. I mostly want to decide MYSELF for what I'm doing, that's why I mostly carebear and - although went to and fro some corp for some time - I returned to NPC corp. Why? Because I don't pay money for someone else to dictate me what to do and how to play. Especially when he's the one ripping me of instead of the other way around. However I will gladly endure losses after losses in a corp that would provide a wealthy influx of info about ANYTHING. However this never happened (or too little too late) so I returned to NPC corps. They're equally crappy about providing gaming info but at least they're not charging any percentage for not doing anything for your-average-corp-grunt. (and no, I will not want to learn by trial-and-error method, period.) Sorry for this lenghty rant but I've seen crappier requests regarding OTHER PLAYERS' TIME and MONEY which - IMO - should not be adressed at all. Some of you said you want exciting missions. Try then lvl 5s or go exploring wormholes. It's not your bussiness about how successful (or not) other players are. Some of you said you want a bigger playerbase mining instead of missioning. You know what? Start it yourselves - go and mine - if you're profitable enough, others may follow. But no, you mostly want SOMEONE ELSE doing this, not you. Some of you debate about time efficiency, ISK rewards, etc... you know what? If you have real money issues you probably need a better job. This is primarily a game, not your source of income. Some of you say it's too easy a game and you have lots of ISK. Know what? If it's too heavy a burden, why don't you just donate your stuff to newcomers and start all over again? I lost 5 battleships doing lvl 4 missions and my ingame ISK never went above 500 mil so I cannot compete with people with dual-accounts / afk missioning / scamming / whatever easy billion ISK made out of the blue. However I NEVER wanted to compete with those people anyway. I play this game the way it is and I don't care if you own 3 quarters of the galaxy. I'm the one paying for my account, not you (it's a generic "you" so try not to take it personally).
Traidor Disloyal Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.05.29 13:39:00 - [84] You can all ** and moan, moan and groan, cry and whine but CCP will never make level 4 missions harder to the point that people will leave. About two years ago they made em easier. They will not go back on something that a majority of people like doing in this game. And to tell the truth I never understood the hatred for level 4 mission runners. I like level 4 mission runners. Who cares if they make a lot of isk. Big deal. Get over it and move on, you'll live longer due to less stress. *********************************************** I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
kiminara kittycat	Posted - 2009.05.29 19:56:00 - [85] This is all you need to know about CCPs view of this topic http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=659 Lots more L4 agents in High Sec! I think this clearly shows CCPs thinking on the matter.
Arfvedson	Posted - 2009.05.29 21:25:00 - [86] Originally by: kiminara kittycat Edited by: kiminara kittycat on 29/05/2009 20:12:35 Edited by: kiminara kittycat on 29/05/2009 20:11:06 This is all you need to know about CCPs view of this topic Lots more L4 agents in High Sec! I think this clearly shows CCPs thinking on the matter. someone beat me to it :(

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