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|Posted - 2009.06.01 17:27:00 -
|Posted - 2009.06.01 19:14:00 -
|Posted - 2009.06.01 20:30:00 -
|Posted - 2009.06.01 21:24:00 -
Originally by: KinLuu
What about if agents give only a limited ammount of missions per player per day? Like for example 10 missions for a -20 and 5 missions for a +20 agent?
That way mission runners would HAVE to move around doing missions, thus spreading the ammount of mission runners to a wider areal.
Farrrrrrr too easy to exploit.
1 - Create alt account.
2 - Gang unskilled alt.
3 - Grind missions, alt gets standings.
4 - ???
5 - Alt can use L4 agent within a week, primary character then doubles available missions for self.
|Posted - 2009.06.01 22:51:00 -
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
You are prolly too politically correct to write or even realize this, but the (sad?) truth is that most people run for Caldari rather than other factions because most people are lazy, unimaginative, plain stupid, or any combination of these most basic human virtues.
Your post was spot-on but I take offense to the above. I chose Caldari because their story (history) interested me the most. I love role-playing Caldari. As such I enjoy running their missions and flying their ships. Yes, I role-play :P. My point is, donĘt classify Caldari pilots in such a narrow-minded view.
As I said before, I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your post.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Home for Wayward Gamers
|Posted - 2009.06.02 08:14:00 -
supported.. even the wish list though Ordion doesnt really need another agent just perhaps an increase in the quality of the existing agents. Already has a L4 and 2 L3's with 2 storyline agents in system, and a pair of L2's a jump away. Mostly poor quality agents, though.
Absolutely everything is subjective.
|Posted - 2009.06.02 08:56:00 -
I think the entire missions system needs a grounds up rethink.
"Skynet" is my internet provider, should I be worried?
Legion 0f The Damned
|Posted - 2009.06.02 11:57:00 -
Originally by: Karentaki
Agreed. CCP really need to stop making Caldari best at all the PVE activities (see W-Space, missions, ratting, caldari POS, etc.
I agree, just give us more solopwnmobiles in pvp and we'll call it a deal. No sarcasm intended.
I have seen the craptacular results of amarr ships doing caldari missions but have seen how they do against sanshas in Amatarr space. Basically what ccp needs to do is balance all races' areas so that they can do missions on par with a raven in anyone's space that doesnt have those Fkin Angels!!
At the same time, balance Caldari ships so that we get more solo-pvp potential then we have now. Give us equal footing in that arena and everyone wins. It would also shut down anyone that has a complaint, either why caldari should or shouldn't have and edge in PVE.
As for those Caldari that enjoy pvp, myself being one, I completely hate the idea that i started out with the race with the weakest solo capability in the game. I liked the idea of missiles over cannons and lasers and had no clue that it would leave me at a disadvantage.
As for any nubcake that wants to say "cross train!!" I say "you cross train for a raven and stfu". Let them suck on that for a bit and realize that cross training sucks when you like the idea of missiles and shields for pvp still. Even after your gunnery skills are double in sp then your missile skills.
So give Caldari more PVP capability outside of a group and you gain additional support for modding missions to give everyone else a sort of boost doing missions in their home area.
As for the "problem" with what CCP did with the additional agents, I think people are taking it wrong. Basically they are seeing it as something it was not intended to be.
What it was intended to do was spread out the blobs of CNRs flowing out of just a handful of stations. The reason is to reduce the crap performance you can get out of eve in such systems. The agents were meant to reduce the strain on the server and increase performance for the players using the agent in the system. Nothing more.
What everyone sees it as is a snub against their group. Well if you do not have as many mission runners in your area RIGHT FKING NOW then adding additional agents RIGHT FKING NOW will mean little. It will mean little because few people will have the standings for L4s in gal,mim,amarr space RIGHT FKING NOW.
Adding in extra agents that are clones of preexisting ones will spread the players out quickly. At least far quicker then adding some in Gal space 20-30+jumps away for corps the PVER never knew existed or did L2s for. So right now we get the pack spread out a bit. Move them a few jumps away. Let them get better performance for now. Basically, stop the bleeding.
Once you stop the bleeding you can address the problem or the wound. Which means that CCP can go back and reevaluate their mission system. Look over the caldari solo pvp problem. Then address everyone else's problem in PVE when compared to caldari.
Legion 0f The Damned
|Posted - 2009.06.02 12:24:00 -
As for fixing the mission system its really easy. First of all the problem with mission running is that there are only X number of agents with Y rating which = z payout in isk and LP. This creates a group of agents no one wants to use and a handful that EVERYONE wants to use.
There really is no reason why an agent should have a rating. If they are lower on the totem pole then they should be a level below their current level. meaning a -15 L4 agent sucks spherical objects all day long. So since they are a failure at being an L4 agent, bust them down to L3. If you suck at your job, you shouldn't get to keep it, you should either get fired or busted down a notch to two until your ability matches your job. if an agent is really good at L3s then he should move up to L4s in the other guy's place.
In the end the rating of agents is an INTERNAL matter that should not effect those they hire on to do their dirty work. If you are qualified to pass out Level 4 missions to podpilots, then you should be qualified to pass out the same level isk as other L4 agents. The loyalty points should be the same as you are completing the same exact task as others with other agents.
The task is for the NPC corp whom the agent belongs to. You are not doing the mission for the L4 agent. The individual agent's standings internally with his own corp should not effect you in a negative or positive manner. Dead NPCs are dead NPCs.
Basically get rid of the rating system. Install additional L4 agents evenly through out eve, i mean EVERYWHERE in EVE(that includes lowsec and 0.0 for those dimbulbs out there). Require X NPC corp standing to gain access to the agents 1 level up. From there adjust isk/LP payout by standings with the agent. Then further adjust that, not by security rating but merely by the fact if you could be attacked or not by other players.
0.0 has fktons of isk floating around. Lowsec,not really. Empire doesn't need to have the most iskflow since it has little risk. Doing missions in a "pvp" zone means your ship is at risk everytime you undock. This should gain you a "hazardous area" bonus to LP/Isk payouts. Rats should also be a bit tougher but also pay more isk since concord is not out there to help curb the NPC's fleet.
Of course people hate the idea of doing L4s in pvp zones. They hate it because its easy to find a listing of L4 agents in lowsec. This means players can go camp those systems and farm the PVERs. BUT if CCP seeded more agents in an even fashion then this will disperse the PVERs as well as the Pirates.
What this will do is give the PVPERs a bit of security through decentralization. Pirates will have to hit up several systems for a chance of catching a mission runner offguard. Pirates will eventually move onto other systems for a while, this gives the Runner a chance to do their thing.
As for the Pirates, well they get 2 things. 1 is they will not be able to farm the hell of a single system. This means they won't deplete their potential targets by beating them down to the point that the runners have to stick to empire. It ensures the targets will recover after being molested. The 2nd benefit will be that additional runners will want the higher payout at the "reduced" risk of running missions in lowsec, this will increase the total targets available even if you have to do more then farm 1 system.
As for 0.0,well not everyone has huge belts full of rats. Sometimes theres more people then there are rats and not everyone mines. Not everyone can expand their empire. So L4 agents in 0.0 will allow the overflow of players to make isk at a consistent rate. The pay wont be higher then lowsec but it will be better then fighting over the smallest of rats. IT will also allow individuals to gain various LP store goods.
L4,0.0 mission hubs will give hostiles an extra target to strike at. This will lead to more pvp. It will also reduce the strain on empire l4 systems as fewer people in 0.0 will need them.
Legion 0f The Damned
|Posted - 2009.06.02 12:38:00 -
Basically all of the above will spread out the player base. it will do so in all security levels. it will do so for all empires. It will allow players to choose the least populated systems to do missions, thus reducing demand on the server. It will also give rise to new trade hubs and smaller hubs. This means even more opportunity for traders. It will also spread out the miners helping to produce those goods.
Will the prices of some goods go up? Maybe. Even if they did the change to the mission system should more then negate the few extra isk to buy X item since you will be bagging isk based on your efforts.As opposed to some bs reason such as "agent rating". I know using a 0 rating L4 agent was good isk. I know when I switched to a +16 rating agent that the LP and isk skyrocketed! My comp's performance took a significant hit due to the number of players in system ,though.
Reduce the desire for a caldari mission running alt. Destroy agent ratings. make the player's efforts relevant to the payout. Seed additional agents in all security levels of space. Give pvp zone missions a hazard bonus to LP/isk payout. Give everyone access to mission agents so people move their mission alts to their true home systems so they can dual box out there away from the CNR blobs.
Might i even suggest making a PVP zone spinoff of NPC corps? Such as Caldari Navy for empire PVERs and then make a more "elite" branch for lowsec/0.0. access is based off of the empire branch's standings. So if you can do L4s for CNavy, you can do L4s for CN-Elite. However the LPs would be separated. WHY do this? Create an LP store with reduced LP/tags/isk needs to purchase goods.
Splitting up the safe and pvp zone missions in such a way allows CCP to do so easily. It will give those with the will to take on the risk the chance to profit in a way that their empire based counter part cannot. IT also evens out the "income" of those that are free to mission 23/7 without risk and those that will find themselves attacked or station camped for a while. Not to mention they could offer even more goods in the pvp zone branches.
ok, im done for now..
|Posted - 2009.06.02 16:25:00 -
|Posted - 2009.06.02 17:00:00 -
Definitely think it would help to add more good agents to other factions, but only as a temporary measure.
There's a lot wrong with agents which requires a total overhaul.
-Any L4 agent with a negative rating will not be used, ever. (In fact this goes for basically all agents beyond L1's). It might be useful to have ONE such agent for people trying to raise standing but all the rest are garbage
-People won't run missions for agents in high sec who keep sending you to low sec. Those agents are mostly pointless.
In fact, the list of agents people do run missions for is pretty low: good quality agents who send you only to high sec and in 0.5 or 0.6 system securities.
Agent rewards/quality need a revamp. Make all high sec agents have one quality, and all low sec agents have another.
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|Posted - 2009.06.02 17:25:00 -
Wow, I actually agree with you on this Ankh!
I am hoping this is just the first step of several that CCP is taking. I am expecting that this is all that CCP is doing, however.
Happy Happy Joy Joy!
UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|Posted - 2009.06.02 18:37:00 -
Originally by: Muad' Dib
'i got boobs and a mini' campaign
Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
|Posted - 2009.06.02 18:40:00 -
Agreed with every single word of op's post.
Caldari got too much agents, what can we do? Give them even more agents... lol. (selective missioning to next level lol).
Give other races more agents.
|Posted - 2009.06.02 18:41:00 -
I have not read through this whole thread, but I think that instead of adding agents to the big four, those should be added to the smaller faction that border the big empires. The Ammatars are already well on the way in this, with being what seems to be a high-end zone, with a very high percentage of Q10+L4 agents.
Do the same with Khanid, ORE, Thukker, Mordus, to entice players to well, go forth to the systems said agents reside in.
Federal Navy Support Divison
|Posted - 2009.06.02 18:52:00 -
Get Your Crumplecorn signature here.
|Posted - 2009.06.02 18:59:00 -
yes but ccp hates all other races but caldari?
Free Trade Corp
|Posted - 2009.06.02 19:43:00 -
seriously ccp you need to pay attention to this thread because it makes perfect sense.
Free Trade Corp - Flash page
Magellan Exploration and Survey
|Posted - 2009.06.02 19:47:00 -
Oh I agree with this one completely.
A couple of things though (please understand this point before flaming):
I have no problem with the Caldari topping ever mission running stat, for the simple reason THEY ARE A CORPORATE STATE.
Lets fact it, mission running, is structured around corporate entities, and the Caldari are a corporate faction. It isn't bad that they have so many, or that they top the stats list when it comes to mission, its bad that they apparently continue to get the lions share of lovin.
Having said that, there does need to be balance, and this is what I think most are objecting to. It is possible to give all factions more agents keeping relative rations consistent, but making up for the actual short comings.
Without throwing balance off, the factions that need the most attention are the 0.0, npc-pirate factions. Ankhesentapemkah your list is good, but along with that needs to be agents for the smaller factions.
Have you tried to get to level 4 agents with a Khanid faction?
Leandro Salazar we're all cattle. Ok you've made your most observant point, and you are quite right, and we are indebted to you - now go away.
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|Posted - 2009.06.02 23:11:00 -
I support this.. I'd rather say remove some caldari agents to force people out of the area.
Sileo In Pacis
The Space P0lice
|Posted - 2009.06.03 04:03:00 -
|Posted - 2009.06.03 08:42:00 -
H A V O C
|Posted - 2009.06.03 12:15:00 -
Originally by: Deldrac
Edited by: Deldrac on 31/05/2009 23:18:53
Make quality dynamic already.
Each downtime, rank the agents at each level in order of the number missions run for them in the last 30 days.
Least used 2.5% get Q20 till next downtime, next 2.5% get Q19, all the way down to the most used at Q-20.
Agreeing with a goon
Seriously, this is what we need, dynamic systems. Stuff making even more high quality agents and spreading them about. Make the most used agents have the lowest quality and vice-versa, change the limits as well so that quality can go above 20 and below -20 to the point that if hundreds of people continue to clog a single hub, the rewards become pitiful, only macro missioners will remain cos they don't know any better, and they will make hardly anything. Low sec agents in general will be visited less often and will become more valuable.
Makes sense to me, the agents that get visited the least need to entice people with additional iskies. Those that get visited the most don't need to give out as many iskies, as there is more competition for the contracts they offer
|Posted - 2009.06.03 18:53:00 -
+1 for more Highsec Gallente/SoE level 4 agents with high quality.
|Posted - 2009.06.03 18:56:00 -
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 29/05/2009 13:42:10
As we all know, CCP put some new agents in the game in Apocrypha 1.1, and the list has just come out.
2x Gallente Navy
1x Fed Intel
4x Caldari Navy
6x Corporate Police Force
2x Spacelane Patrol
1x Ishukone Watch
1x Lai Dai Protection Service
4x Brutor Tribe
Thus the totals stand at:
Now, CCP's reasoning is "Most people run missions for Caldari, so let's add more Caldari agents to spread out the population".
I say this is the wrong approach. Most people run missions for Caldari because they have the best and the most agents allowing selective missioning, turning down less-profitable missions and moving on to the next agent. Only Caldari can afford this very profitable selective missioning, because of the sheer amount of agents (they currently have almost as much L4 combat agents as the rest of the empires combined).
Instead of making mission running more viable by adding more agents of the other races, they went the opposite way and just made the situation even more extreme. This is extremely bad game design, instead of encouraging players to truly spread out more and consider running missions for non-Caldari agents, they make running L4 missions for Caldari agents even more profitable.
Let's look at the best agents that have been added:
Gallente: L4 Q18 in 0.7 space, the cat(ch) being that this agent has the potential to send players to Old Man Star, which is lowsec factional warfare space. It also has 4 adjacent systems which makes the odds rather high to be sent out of system.
Gallente: L4 Q16 in 0.7 space, one system next door....... And it's in solitude, good luck running your mission ship through 0.0 to get there. (okay this is a nice and welcome boost to the people that live in Solitude though, like me!)
Minmatar: L4 Q15 in 0.8 space... No lowsec and only two adjacent systems though.
Now the Caldari:
Kia Isatoh L4 Q18 0.6, three adjacent systems of which one lowsec... Sucks right? WRONG! No stations in adjacent systems so this one won't send you out of solar system at all! If he does send you 2 jumps out to lowsec, then just go to Uuhulanen where you'll find your next L4 agent.
Konuoma Ichodan L4 Q17 0.5, one adjacent system
Urpiluola Samiwa L4 Q16 0.6, one adjacent system
Sotrentaira Isara L4 Q15 0.5, two adjacent systems with stations, can send into lowsec (2 jumps away)
Oduma Onnajus L4 Q18 0.7, three adjacent systems
Hunen Arekila L4 Q16 0.7, four adjacent systems
So instead of adding L4 agents to the factions that need them (Amarr, Gallente, Minmatar and how about Sisters of EVE which have a grand total of 2 L4 agents in highsec?), CCP decides to boost Caldari even more. Yeah that makes it really hard to choose who to run missions for, and really makes me wonder why so many players run missions for Caldari and hardly anyone for Amarr...
Another thing that indicates this wrong approach is CCP adding agents for the corps that already have plenty of them, instead of making other corporations more viable by adding some more combat-agents to them.
This issue demands 23 new highsec L4 agents added... For each non-Caldari faction.
Edit: This is the wishlist of agents. If they let me, I'll punch them into the database myself. I tried to keep things balanced as much as possible, and introduced a few small mission hubs (nothing as unbalanced as the Caldari already have) for the various factions. I also added some agents for some of the problematic corps (mainly Minmatar). The rest of the agents are just solitary L4 agents in out-of-the-way systems.
Yes for more Empire Agents
|Posted - 2009.06.03 20:04:00 -
Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde on 03/06/2009 20:04:46
CCP adds a gazillion new agents in empire for Caldari, Gallente, and Minmatar.
and the CSMers are outraged not because CCP added more lvl 4 agents to empire space, but because they didnt add ENOUGH lvl 4 empire agents for the other factions as they did Caldari.
The point is that way
Go catch up to it.
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam
|Posted - 2009.06.03 20:44:00 -
The Molden Heath agents are foul. They should be placed in Eldulf or the system next door that is not Horaka. Eldulf is uniquely placed as it is not only boasts a small mission hub in 0.6 space with only a minor possibility of an agent sending you to a very quiet 0.3 system, it forces you to run through Atlar to get there, meaning that it rewards players who can navigate lowsec space.
http://eve.drome.nl/CaodCleaner/ Help make CAOD readable.
Pator Tech School
|Posted - 2009.06.03 22:07:00 -
Edited by: Kuranta on 03/06/2009 22:10:13
Typical CCP: "We have a problem and the solution is to not tackle the problem itself 'cause there would be whines on the forum" thing. Just imagine the outcry if there would have been no new caldari agents (like for amarr now).
And it doesn't adress the whole lvl 4 high sec isk-print machine at all - which is the main problem (several high Q Agents in one System).
Would be less of a problem, if people would use the war-dec mechanic as it was intended. To drive off lag causing competitors in desireable High sec systems....
But well..CCP has been talking for years how learning skills were bad and removing them would be good. Even though learning skills are good to keep out the low attention-span wow kiddies, it is just not good for the game. I just want to think CCP has a reason to not do stuff that I'm not aware of..
Edit: I'm drunk. Sue my incoherent posting ass.
|Posted - 2009.06.03 23:26:00 -
I think L4s are too lucrative for highsec altogether. I'm astonished that ccp wants to give highsec even more reward for no risk at all
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