Your responses make no sense, i can opt out of PVP by staying in an NPC corp, there job done i no longer have to take part in PVP.

But why should this be the only viable option and i have to pay tax to that NPC corp for its preotection, that tax is ok i could accept that so lets ignore that point now as well and move onto the questions i raised in my OP which people are obviously not reading.

If i want to run a small 5 man corp for me and my freidns your basically saying do it at your own risk. ok so those same 5 friends join an NPC corp to be safe from pvp war dec greifers, now all that is happenign is that those 5 freinds dont get to share as much enjoment as easily as they could of done in a player run corp.

So there is an opt out option already its just a flawed one

Hmm its a sandbox, exactly what kind of game is it not? lol

Sandbox by definition is a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.

Hmm its a sandbox, exactly what kind of game is it not? lol

Sandbox by definition is a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.

Your responses make no sense, i can opt out of PVP by staying in an NPC corp, there job done i no longer have to take part in PVP.

But why should this be the only viable option and i have to pay tax to that NPC corp for its preotection, that tax is ok i could accept that so lets ignore that point now as well and move onto the questions i raised in my OP which people are obviously not reading.

If i want to run a small 5 man corp for me and my freidns your basically saying do it at your own risk. ok so those same 5 friends join an NPC corp to be safe from pvp war dec greifers, now all that is happenign is that those 5 freinds dont get to share as much enjoment as easily as they could of done in a player run corp.

So there is an opt out option already its just a flawed one

Hmm its a sandbox, exactly what kind of game is it not? lol

Sandbox by definition is a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.

It also allows freedom for other players in big ships to do nasty things to your carebearmobile.

With the new War Dec mechanics it seems like there is no consideration to players who wish to take part in PVE activity only.

It would appear the only option available to none PVP type players is to stay in an NPC corp or join a large enough Corp which is unlikely to get War Dec'ed because of the cost.

What happened to Eve being a Sandbox allowing players to choose what they want to do.

Hmm its a sandbox, exactly what kind of game is it not? lol

Sandbox by definition is a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.

Without a box it is just sand. This box includes PvP.

Remember what killed UO.

Follow me for a minute here, we're going to take a logical journey!

Many players in this thread and others have stated that there are not nearly as many carebears as you think.

So, why is it such a big deal to all these "PvPers" that opting out of PvP is made / kept impossible? If the amount of true PvE only carebears in the game is as small as many people claim, what's the overall loss to PvP in EvE? The loss is minor, if even noticed by actual PvPers, since most carebears don't go anywhere near the PvP focused areas in the game.

No, the people who lose by allowing carebears to opt out of PvP are the griefers. Please, don't try to call yourselves PvP players, you who spend your time waging war in high security space. It is not PvP when the only people who can shoot at you are industrial players who can't even fly a T1 frig properly. High sec warriors (LOL) lose out on their safe form of PvP if carebears get their way, and that just can't happen.... can it?

My final question is about weighing the losses attached with implementing some sort of change.

- If CCP decides to make high security space more (or completely) safe, what is the loss? Will 1000 griefers quit in rage or will they go out to low / null and join the rest of the hardcore PvP crowd? What if 1000 players re-subscribe because they can now play the game how they like without being SUDDENLY BETRAYAL by random griefers?

- What is the loss to subscribers if CCP decides to make high sec griefing easier? Will carebears quit in droves? Can / will CCP support people pissing in the sandbox when it affects their bottom line?

Time will tell, I'm sure.

Follow me for a minute here, we're going to take a logical journey!

Many players in this thread and others have stated that there are not nearly as many carebears as you think.

So, why is it such a big deal to all these "PvPers" that opting out of PvP is made / kept impossible? If the amount of true PvE only carebears in the game is as small as many people claim, what's the overall loss to PvP in EvE? The loss is minor, if even noticed by actual PvPers, since most carebears don't go anywhere near the PvP focused areas in the game.

No, the people who lose by allowing carebears to opt out of PvP are the griefers. Please, don't try to call yourselves PvP players, you who spend your time waging war in high security space. It is not PvP when the only people who can shoot at you are industrial players who can't even fly a T1 frig properly. High sec warriors (LOL) lose out on their safe form of PvP if carebears get their way, and that just can't happen.... can it?

My final question is about weighing the losses attached with implementing some sort of change.

- If CCP decides to make high security space more (or completely) safe, what is the loss? Will 1000 griefers quit in rage or will they go out to low / null and join the rest of the hardcore PvP crowd? What if 1000 players re-subscribe because they can now play the game how they like without being SUDDENLY BETRAYAL by random griefers?

- What is the loss to subscribers if CCP decides to make high sec griefing easier? Will carebears quit in droves? Can / will CCP support people pissing in the sandbox when it affects their bottom line?

Time will tell, I'm sure.

It's certainly a good thing to kill what made EVE what it is today, what makes EVE special and what defines EVE's core. What lets it stand out against its competition and made it successful to begin with. An omni present sense of danger is as fundamental to EVE as fantasy to WoW is and has nothing to do with griefing.

Complaining that there is PvP in a PvP game is ridiculously moronic and stupid. If you don't like PvP don't play a PvP game. End of story. And if you think EVE is not a PvP game you certainly do not even comprehend what you are actually playing.

This whole thread is nonsense.

Listen to me and don't make assumptions.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT REMOVING PVP.


PvP will still exist in every facet of the game, except high sec griefing of people who are not interested in PvP.

The argument is that the amount of actual carebears is small, so I'm still waiting for someone to come along and explain what the detriment to PVP would be if 1000 people who actively avoid pvp were suddenly immune to it?

Oh yeah, lets just allow people to opt in and out of PvP at their own convenience.

That won't break the game at all.

Listen to me and don't make assumptions.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT REMOVING PVP.


PvP will still exist in every facet of the game, except high sec griefing of people who are not interested in PvP.

The argument is that the amount of actual carebears is small, so I'm still waiting for someone to come along and explain what the detriment to PVP would be if 1000 people who actively avoid pvp were suddenly immune to it?

You haven't thought this through at all. If you were to implement this opt-out mechanic, it would get abused harder than CONCORD response time in hisec is currently being abused. It would not be 1000 players who used it, it would be anyone who could get an edge out of it at any time, unless you're talking about creating a character from the ground up who cannot PvP--which means it wouldn't be able to shoot at OTHER players, mind, because it has to go both ways. If you roll a character like that, I might refer you to several other MMOs that will wipe your baby ass for you.

Listen to me and don't make assumptions.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT REMOVING PVP.


PvP will still exist in every facet of the game, except high sec griefing of people who are not interested in PvP.

The argument is that the amount of actual carebears is small, so I'm still waiting for someone to come along and explain what the detriment to PVP would be if 1000 people who actively avoid pvp were suddenly immune to it?

a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.

The problem is that what you are trying to advocate goes against the wonderful sandbox that is eve. As I said on page two (which probably got missed). The thing about the sandbox is that every choice you have has consequences. What you and the OP seem to be glossing over is this fact. You seem to want some way of avoiding pvp altogether without any consequence. The OP for example wants his 5 man corp without being prone to wardecs.

Adding some opt out without any consequence would break the sandbox. So the question would be what would you be willing to sacrifice or pay for this opt out program?

It can be annoying losing ships or being war dec'd yes, but its part of the game full stop. EVE is marketed on its ability to give ALL players the freedom do what they want within its universe.

The sandbox argument is complete bull. If the sandbox were true, there would be no CONCORD and no faction navy, and everyone could just mill about blowing up whatever they wanted without consequence.

The game as it is now goes against that logic because CONCORD and faction navies do exist.

If concord followed logic, anyone who commits a crime in the area they patrol would be prevented from entering that area permanently. Hell give them a 3 strikes rule would even be more likely than it is now. Instead concord simply blows up their ship and effectively forgets they ever did anything wrong after 15 minutes. The notion of a sandbox is not true, it's just what griefers try to use to guard their ability to grief.

I don't like pushing people out of a game because in the long run it only hurts the game but it is what it is. To demand absolute safety for your activities is as much against what EVE defines as demanding full loot PvP everywhere in WoW is. I'm sorry but if you don't like that you play the wrong game. It's just that simple.

The sandbox argument is complete bull. If the sandbox were true, there would be no CONCORD and no faction navy, and everyone could just mill about blowing up whatever they wanted without consequence.