There is an opt out, it's called station spinning.
As soon as you hit the undock button, you are agreeing to PVP

It's just not that kind of game. Sorry.

Hmm its a sandbox, exactly what kind of game is it not? lol

Sandbox by definition is a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.

You can't 'opt out' of a sandbox.

I think you're mistaking the idea of what a 'sandbox' game actually is.

Sandbox by definition is a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.

If i want to run a small 5 man corp for me and my freidns your basically saying do it at your own risk. ok so those same 5 friends join an NPC corp to be safe from pvp war dec greifers, now all that is happenign is that those 5 freinds dont get to share as much enjoment as easily as they could of done in a player run corp.

So there is an opt out option already its just a flawed one

Why is it so hard for some people to understand ??? It's not a game where you're supposed to be safe, it's a harsh universe where people get gunned down sometime for no reasons. At least with the war dec system, you have a 24h notice, you know who's after you and you have time to take defensive actions. Hell you can even call in reinforcements if your the one attacked.

If you wanna be left alone playing a spreadsheet game, I don't know go play sim city, or even better, open a real business. And that come from someone who mined for almost a year, so it's not like I'm a pvp is the only way to go kind of guy. I love the industry/market aspect of eve. You just can't ask for theses aspect to be deconnected from the rest of the game.

how many of it's subscribers are carebears?

[quote=David Campbell]People don't understand it becuase they pay to play a game with mechanics which are broken, yes CCP want PVP to be a primary focus of the game, maybe thats true but really, how many of it's subscribers are carebears?

People don't understand it becuase they pay to play a game with mechanics which are broken, yes CCP want PVP to be a primary focus of the game, maybe thats true but really, how many of it's subscribers are carebears?

I imagine they would lose more subs if they started wrapping players of soft fluffy blankets.

One of the key marketing points of Eve Online is the one universe, brutal sandbox.

Eve is not a 'PVE' game, in terms that even if you don't shoot other players directly, you're still always competing with them on some level, be it running exploration sites first, playing the market or being that one who can afford to buy that navy faction ship someone has just made.

Your idea is completely non-congruent with well..everything. The War Dec system was created to stop people hiding in corps in high-sec, and its only major complaint was that it didn't do that job enough. Thus the war-dec buff.

First reasonable response :) good opinion and kind of makes sense what you said.

So for the next question its going to cost the agressor 20mil + 500k per member in the defender corp to to hold up a war dec for a week. So joking aside i could create 500 trial account characters in a matter of hours therefore making it cost a minimum of 250mil to war dec my corp. This is another area where the mechaic is broken.

i could create 500 trial account characters in a matter of hours therefore making it cost a minimum of 250mil to war dec my corp. This is another area where the mechaic is broken.

You obviously didn't read the devblog carefully enough, trials account will not be taken into consideration while calculating the wardec cost.

Ok so on the flip side what is stopping me from creating say 50 trial account characters putting them in my corp and then war decing other small corps who will see I have a 50man corp and think twice about paying the ransom money or putting up a fight.

The new war history maybe ? I'll sure think twice before giving even 1 ISK to 50 man corp who dec me but haven't shot at a single ship ever.

The new war history maybe ? I'll sure think twice before giving even 1 ISK to 50 man corp who dec me but haven't shot at a single ship ever.

Is War history confirmed for this patch? i seen on the fanfest videos that it was in development but not going to make inferno?

what is stopping me from creating say 50 trial account characters putting them in my corp and then war decing other small corps who will see I have a 50man corp and think twice about paying the ransom money or putting up a fight.

Your responses make no sense, i can opt out of PVP by staying in an NPC corp, there job done i no longer have to take part in PVP.

But why should this be the only viable option and i have to pay tax to that NPC corp for its preotection, that tax is ok i could accept that so lets ignore that point now as well and move onto the questions i raised in my OP which people are obviously not reading.

If i want to run a small 5 man corp for me and my freidns your basically saying do it at your own risk. ok so those same 5 friends join an NPC corp to be safe from pvp war dec greifers, now all that is happenign is that those 5 freinds dont get to share as much enjoment as easily as they could of done in a player run corp.

So there is an opt out option already its just a flawed one

Hmm its a sandbox, exactly what kind of game is it not? lol

Sandbox by definition is a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.

Hmm its a sandbox, exactly what kind of game is it not? lol

Sandbox by definition is a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.

Your responses make no sense, i can opt out of PVP by staying in an NPC corp, there job done i no longer have to take part in PVP.

But why should this be the only viable option and i have to pay tax to that NPC corp for its preotection, that tax is ok i could accept that so lets ignore that point now as well and move onto the questions i raised in my OP which people are obviously not reading.

If i want to run a small 5 man corp for me and my freidns your basically saying do it at your own risk. ok so those same 5 friends join an NPC corp to be safe from pvp war dec greifers, now all that is happenign is that those 5 freinds dont get to share as much enjoment as easily as they could of done in a player run corp.

So there is an opt out option already its just a flawed one

Hmm its a sandbox, exactly what kind of game is it not? lol

Sandbox by definition is a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.

It also allows freedom for other players in big ships to do nasty things to your carebearmobile.

With the new War Dec mechanics it seems like there is no consideration to players who wish to take part in PVE activity only.

It would appear the only option available to none PVP type players is to stay in an NPC corp or join a large enough Corp which is unlikely to get War Dec'ed because of the cost.

What happened to Eve being a Sandbox allowing players to choose what they want to do.

Hmm its a sandbox, exactly what kind of game is it not? lol

Sandbox by definition is a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.

Without a box it is just sand. This box includes PvP.

Remember what killed UO.

Follow me for a minute here, we're going to take a logical journey!

Many players in this thread and others have stated that there are not nearly as many carebears as you think.

So, why is it such a big deal to all these "PvPers" that opting out of PvP is made / kept impossible? If the amount of true PvE only carebears in the game is as small as many people claim, what's the overall loss to PvP in EvE? The loss is minor, if even noticed by actual PvPers, since most carebears don't go anywhere near the PvP focused areas in the game.

No, the people who lose by allowing carebears to opt out of PvP are the griefers. Please, don't try to call yourselves PvP players, you who spend your time waging war in high security space. It is not PvP when the only people who can shoot at you are industrial players who can't even fly a T1 frig properly. High sec warriors (LOL) lose out on their safe form of PvP if carebears get their way, and that just can't happen.... can it?

My final question is about weighing the losses attached with implementing some sort of change.

- If CCP decides to make high security space more (or completely) safe, what is the loss? Will 1000 griefers quit in rage or will they go out to low / null and join the rest of the hardcore PvP crowd? What if 1000 players re-subscribe because they can now play the game how they like without being SUDDENLY BETRAYAL by random griefers?

- What is the loss to subscribers if CCP decides to make high sec griefing easier? Will carebears quit in droves? Can / will CCP support people pissing in the sandbox when it affects their bottom line?

Time will tell, I'm sure.

Follow me for a minute here, we're going to take a logical journey!

Many players in this thread and others have stated that there are not nearly as many carebears as you think.

So, why is it such a big deal to all these "PvPers" that opting out of PvP is made / kept impossible? If the amount of true PvE only carebears in the game is as small as many people claim, what's the overall loss to PvP in EvE? The loss is minor, if even noticed by actual PvPers, since most carebears don't go anywhere near the PvP focused areas in the game.

No, the people who lose by allowing carebears to opt out of PvP are the griefers. Please, don't try to call yourselves PvP players, you who spend your time waging war in high security space. It is not PvP when the only people who can shoot at you are industrial players who can't even fly a T1 frig properly. High sec warriors (LOL) lose out on their safe form of PvP if carebears get their way, and that just can't happen.... can it?

My final question is about weighing the losses attached with implementing some sort of change.

- If CCP decides to make high security space more (or completely) safe, what is the loss? Will 1000 griefers quit in rage or will they go out to low / null and join the rest of the hardcore PvP crowd? What if 1000 players re-subscribe because they can now play the game how they like without being SUDDENLY BETRAYAL by random griefers?

- What is the loss to subscribers if CCP decides to make high sec griefing easier? Will carebears quit in droves? Can / will CCP support people pissing in the sandbox when it affects their bottom line?

Time will tell, I'm sure.

It's certainly a good thing to kill what made EVE what it is today, what makes EVE special and what defines EVE's core. What lets it stand out against its competition and made it successful to begin with. An omni present sense of danger is as fundamental to EVE as fantasy to WoW is and has nothing to do with griefing.

Complaining that there is PvP in a PvP game is ridiculously moronic and stupid. If you don't like PvP don't play a PvP game. End of story. And if you think EVE is not a PvP game you certainly do not even comprehend what you are actually playing.

This whole thread is nonsense.

Listen to me and don't make assumptions.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT REMOVING PVP.


PvP will still exist in every facet of the game, except high sec griefing of people who are not interested in PvP.

The argument is that the amount of actual carebears is small, so I'm still waiting for someone to come along and explain what the detriment to PVP would be if 1000 people who actively avoid pvp were suddenly immune to it?

Oh yeah, lets just allow people to opt in and out of PvP at their own convenience.

That won't break the game at all.

Listen to me and don't make assumptions.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT REMOVING PVP.


PvP will still exist in every facet of the game, except high sec griefing of people who are not interested in PvP.

The argument is that the amount of actual carebears is small, so I'm still waiting for someone to come along and explain what the detriment to PVP would be if 1000 people who actively avoid pvp were suddenly immune to it?

You haven't thought this through at all. If you were to implement this opt-out mechanic, it would get abused harder than CONCORD response time in hisec is currently being abused. It would not be 1000 players who used it, it would be anyone who could get an edge out of it at any time, unless you're talking about creating a character from the ground up who cannot PvP--which means it wouldn't be able to shoot at OTHER players, mind, because it has to go both ways. If you roll a character like that, I might refer you to several other MMOs that will wipe your baby ass for you.

Listen to me and don't make assumptions.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT REMOVING PVP.


PvP will still exist in every facet of the game, except high sec griefing of people who are not interested in PvP.

The argument is that the amount of actual carebears is small, so I'm still waiting for someone to come along and explain what the detriment to PVP would be if 1000 people who actively avoid pvp were suddenly immune to it?

a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.

The problem is that what you are trying to advocate goes against the wonderful sandbox that is eve. As I said on page two (which probably got missed). The thing about the sandbox is that every choice you have has consequences. What you and the OP seem to be glossing over is this fact. You seem to want some way of avoiding pvp altogether without any consequence. The OP for example wants his 5 man corp without being prone to wardecs.

Adding some opt out without any consequence would break the sandbox. So the question would be what would you be willing to sacrifice or pay for this opt out program?

It can be annoying losing ships or being war dec'd yes, but its part of the game full stop. EVE is marketed on its ability to give ALL players the freedom do what they want within its universe.

The sandbox argument is complete bull. If the sandbox were true, there would be no CONCORD and no faction navy, and everyone could just mill about blowing up whatever they wanted without consequence.

The game as it is now goes against that logic because CONCORD and faction navies do exist.

If concord followed logic, anyone who commits a crime in the area they patrol would be prevented from entering that area permanently. Hell give them a 3 strikes rule would even be more likely than it is now. Instead concord simply blows up their ship and effectively forgets they ever did anything wrong after 15 minutes. The notion of a sandbox is not true, it's just what griefers try to use to guard their ability to grief.

I don't like pushing people out of a game because in the long run it only hurts the game but it is what it is. To demand absolute safety for your activities is as much against what EVE defines as demanding full loot PvP everywhere in WoW is. I'm sorry but if you don't like that you play the wrong game. It's just that simple.

The sandbox argument is complete bull. If the sandbox were true, there would be no CONCORD and no faction navy, and everyone could just mill about blowing up whatever they wanted without consequence.

Ahhhh, Thank you....
I now know that after two years of playing EvE, that I'm playing the wrong game.
You just saved me another month of subscription cost.

No you can't have my stuff, there is honestly not much left. After repeated tries at living in Nullsec and Lowsec, and finding that a 20 mil SP character has no chance against Titan Blobs, I returned to High Sec to recoup and rebuild via Mission Running and Mining. BUT!!! Now after 4 weeks of Stupid, Inane, and Totally Immature Griefer Kiddies (who if in real life I would happily teach some manners too) I'm now waking up to the reality that "I DON"T NEED THIS GARBAGE".

I pay my money to play a DIGITAL INTERNET SPACESHIP GAME because I enjoy the Genre.
Bullies and Immature punks I've grown tired of. I'm in real life a 50+ year old who has a somewhat successful (if stressful) career. I don't have the time, or the inclination to Live EvE 23/7 !!!

Sorry gang, but enough is enough, and I'm sure that I'm not going to be the only one who will leave CCP's little GRIEFFEST like a bad marriage...

Ahhhh, Thank you....
I now know that after two years of playing EvE, that I'm playing the wrong game.
You just saved me another month of subscription cost.

No you can't have my stuff, there is honestly not much left. After repeated tries at living in Nullsec and Lowsec, and finding that a 20 mil SP character has no chance against Titan Blobs, I returned to High Sec to recoup and rebuild via Mission Running and Mining. BUT!!! Now after 4 weeks of Stupid, Inane, and Totally Immature Griefer Kiddies (who if in real life I would happily teach some manners too) I'm now waking up to the reality that "I DON"T NEED THIS GARBAGE".

I pay my money to play a DIGITAL INTERNET SPACESHIP GAME because I enjoy the Genre.
Bullies and Immature punks I've grown tired of. I'm in real life a 50+ year old who has a somewhat successful (if stressful) career. I don't have the time, or the inclination to Live EvE 23/7 !!!

Sorry gang, but enough is enough, and I'm sure that I'm not going to be the only one who will leave CCP's little GRIEFFEST like a bad marriage...

it's a valid answer to this post but its not a solution to the problem

How about we just save CCP time and trouble and take an axe to the servers, either way the result is the same.

Non consensual PVP is not griefing. Just because you do not like or want it does not mean it is grief. This is a game where everyone can interact with you in positive and negitive ways. It is a game where your choice matters. Because.you chose to avoid and not learn to pvp does not make PVP towards you an act of grief.

You choose to be a victim. Even if you do not want to shoot back you can still figure out other ways to solve your problems. Think, stratagize. Do not just sit there and try to force the game not to be mean to you because you decided after you started playing that you only liked one piece of the game. You decided not to take care of yourself in a game designed to make all of your actions count.

I hate bubbles with a Passion. I learned to move around them and deal with them. I don't come to the forums and demand that I recieve an anti bubble flag because they ruin my plans.

I do not understand how one can so blindly scream "exempt me because I do not want to take responsibility for my choices which include selecting a game with not 100% safe zone to play in and forces me to take responsibility for my choices" and think that any part of this out out plan can make sense.

You chose to do activities that bring a higher PVP risk. That may be as simple as fitting a billion ISK worth of shinies on your ship. Choices were made. Not every action is going to end I. A positive manner.

Interesting choice for a personal attack. If I extend our in game personas to real life, I am a business person and you are a sociopath. Interesting parallel, eh?

Tbh i dont think the new wardec system will change all that much, there are at the moment already tons of wardecs against corps that cant defend themselves. Just so some highsec leet pvper can pad his killboard with t1 industrials..

We will still have that after the change and i doubt we will see a huge increase. Dont want to get wardeced? Keep your corp in a quiet area of space, dont mouth off in local and dont act all internet badass on the forums.. And you are relatively safe.

You guys are such full of bullshit. You claim that EVE is a sandbox yet you want to deny that freedom to others.

I'm not a suicide ganker but lets say I am. By your definition of the sandbox, I should have as much freedom to to blow up miners because that is a gamestyle that suits me and entertains my own desires.

Hmm its a sandbox, exactly what kind of game is it not? lol

Sandbox by definition is a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.

Nice try but wrong. For one, concord will attack repeat offenders. If they are below a certain sec level they are attack on site and their shop can get blown up. But also, which. IMO is good, concord is not all omnipotent. They can be outrun, they are not everywhere at all times. Working as intended IMO.

Again, the issue of what you propose is that it would break the sandbox. If you cannot figure out how it would, debating this topic becomes moot.

Totally wrong, Concord kills you only when the GCC is in effect, they can't be outrun, they are omnipotent, you mixing it up with the faction police.

But any issue about Concord and ganking is nothing to do with pvp, shooting someone and getting the kill before they wtfpwn you is just working out how much damage you need to put on you're target before Concord takes you out, should be called player vs e-fit, on a related note wonder how much crying there would be from gankers if getting concorded generated a loss mail......

There is an opt out, it's called station spinning.
As soon as you hit the undock button, you are agreeing to PVP

No, you are flat out wrong. It IS griefing. The only reason for high sec wardecs is to cause grief and get easy kills. It's pure schadenfreude.

What happened to Eve being a Sandbox allowing players to choose what they want to do.

.

I didn't know there was leet high sec pvpers. I learn something every day.

3. I don't want to take part in PVP so i live in hisec
4. Just let me play the game how i like to play it and leave me alone

Hmm its a sandbox, exactly what kind of game is it not? lol

Sandbox by definition is a game which allows as much freedom to its player base to choose a game style which suits them and entertains there own desires.

With the new War Dec mechanics it seems like there is no consideration to players who wish to take part in PVE activity only.

It would appear the only option available to none PVP type players is to stay in an NPC corp or join a large enough Corp which is unlikely to get War Dec'ed because of the cost.

What happened to Eve being a Sandbox allowing players to choose what they want to do.

A typical PVE player example which is no longer possible

1. I want to play Eve for fun and be a carebear
2. I want to run my own corp for me and my buddies
3. I don't want to take part in PVP so i live in hisec
4. Just let me play the game how i like to play it and leave me alone

It seems with the new War Dec mechanics players who want to run small scale corps for fun and carebear activities are now going to be extorted indefinately by PVP gangs. Misions runner corps, Minign Corps, Incursion Corps, ect will now be prime targets for small scale PVP gangs to extort leaving the carebeasr with no option but to return to NPC corps and ultimately bring an end to the player run corp's for PVE activities.

Before all the PVPers rage that a carebear shouldn't be safe, please hold that rage for another thread and debate... carebears pay there subscription like everyone else and should be allowed to play the game as they wish without being constantly griefed by other players which is basically what the new war dec mechanics will bring and the only way to avoid that is to be in an NPC corp where you can't gain the same control with your buddies from having your own corp.

How about an opt out of PVP option, is it really that important that eve becomes a completely PVP based game where carebears and new comers can't avoid being targetted and killed?

The argument that a carebear can stay in an NPC corp is flawed becuase that carebear might want to run a 5 man corp with himself and his RL friends, so they can meet up chare a corp experience and do the things together they liek to do in Eve, simply saying to those guys right you now have to go and join an NPC corp to be safe is a little unbalanced in favour of the PVPers as that same 5 man corp will disband, join NPC corps and miss out on all teh features which were available to them in a small corp such as sharing hisec POS rights, corp management roles and leaders.

Finally this may sound liek a big carebear crying but i'm simply trying to work out how this new mechanic will be balanced in favour of all players rather than just those PVP corps who will now be able to grief carebears and extort them which is a little unfair considering they pay to play a game we all share.

leaving the carebeasr with no option but to return to NPC corps and ultimately bring an end to the player run corp's for PVE activities.

As someone a couple posts above me said, there *is* a place you can do exactly what you're talking about. It's the test server.

There is an opt out, it's called station spinning.
As soon as you hit the undock button, you are agreeing to PVP

Good God -- Enough with the carebear buffs, you folks are playing a PVP game and if you don't like it, leave.

inb4 "waaah it's a sandbox" -- yes it is, and sometimes, there's going to be bigger kids ready to punch you in the mouth, take your trowel and pail and make you eat the cat turd on the north side of the giant, plastic turtle with no cover that is EVE.

If it wer PVP only there would be no PVE content.

i can opt out of PVP by staying in an NPC corp

If it wer PVP only there would be no PVE content.

I clearly see a difference between PVE and combat PVP.

OMGWTF does this show both sides?

I stand with fivethirty in that crossing into lowsec is acknowledgement and acceptance of combat pvp, and staying out should guarantee PVE players the ability to play their sand box game the way they want to.

Griefing sucks, its immature, lame, disrespectful and only proves those who do it dont have what it takes to loose their ships in low or null.

CCP developed the game to entertain both aspects but failed to place the proper pve mechanics to date as they are so busy with the pvp side of things. ... I stand with fivethirty in that crossing into lowsec is acknowledgement and acceptance of combat pvp, and staying out should guarantee PVE players the ability to play their sand box game the way they want to.

Griefing sucks, its immature, lame, disrespectful and only proves those who do it dont have what it takes to loose their ships in low or null.

New Universe. New Rules.
Immerse yourself in the vast virgin territories of EVE where power is the Holy Grail and the ultimate aphrodisiac. Conceive a new life without boundaries, where murder, plunder, betrayal, and delusions of grandeur will lead you to boundless glory or to the brink of ruin. The galaxy is yours to control if you have the brains, strength, and cunning to succeed.

Explore a vast universe
Thousands of solar systems await exploration, exploitation, and corruption at the hands of you and your friends.

Choose a profession
Dauntless fleet commander, or the most nefarious pirate ever to terrorize the galaxy - be and do anything you'd never dare to imagine.

Join the community
Conspire with thousands of others to bring the galaxy to its knees, or go it alone and share the glory with no one.

Develop your character
Design a face to frighten, or one to entice and then choose your race and your personality to fit.

Player-Driven Economy
Form a cartel of ruthless compatriots and control the spaceways. Buy, sell, and barter to amass great wealth... or do it the easy way with a hostile takeover.

Depending on your specialty choices, combat will be either a way of life or just a way to defent yourself. Either way, at some point you'll have to shoot at someone or something to stay alive.

CCP has failed to complete this SOLO aspect they talked about. The content is there, but the game mechanic isnt.

Fun Fact: PVP is better for the markets than PVE. Let me show you....


Most of the ISK coming into the game (from literally nowhere) comes from Bounties. And Incursions. And Mission Rewards. This, childrens, increases the money supply.

Now, Loosing a ship removes the assets, NOT the ISK (it's been moved from one player to another when an item is purchased via the market or contract).

What this means is that should the carebear dream come true, with the removal of non-consensual PVP in highsec, we'll see the supply of money continue to increase (likely at a higher rate than at present) while the movement of said money will stagnate and likely decrease.

That's called inflation.

Arguments that non-consensual PVP is a vital aspect of the game (and a reason many of us came to play here in New Eden) aside, it makes literally no sense AT ALL from a Game Development standpoint or an Economic standpoint.

Eve is less of a game and more of a hobby -- and it's one built around Risk Management rather than gear or character progression. What do you have? What does that enable you to do? What are the risks involved?

Is it worth it?

I don't want Minecraft in space, Notch is already working on that.

Moreover, strictly from a lore perspective, you're all immortal here. Death doesn't matter.

Great post.

Ive watched interviews with Soundwave talking about the economy and how its currently breaking like so many other MMO's.
Its unfortunate how hard the game is when it comes to economy currently for those who dont live in the game to make the isk but still want to be a part. This is the problem for the most part as in order to participate in certain facets of the game, certain ships, or equipment is certainly needed which becomes quite costly. This is where the length of time played for some players to achieve this game play becomes a problem when their newly purchased asset disappears in a matter of seconds.

So CCP doesnt control the market and the prices people pay is a product of the marriage between sellers greed, supply and demand, and people caving in on the prices and buying anyways.. While this is complicated and certainly not a discussion for this post, its the inevitable issue for those who want to be left alone to play their way.

If internet space ships didnt cost so much to replace, im sure griefing wouldnt be such a problem.

New Universe. New Rules.
Immerse yourself in the vast virgin territories of EVE where power is the Holy Grail and the ultimate aphrodisiac. Conceive a new life without boundaries, where murder, plunder, betrayal, and delusions of grandeur will lead you to boundless glory or to the brink of ruin. The galaxy is yours to control if you have the brains, strength, and cunning to succeed.

Explore a vast universe
Thousands of solar systems await exploration, exploitation, and corruption at the hands of you and your friends.

Choose a profession
Dauntless fleet commander, or the most nefarious pirate ever to terrorize the galaxy - be and do anything you'd never dare to imagine.

Join the community
Conspire with thousands of others to bring the galaxy to its knees, or go it alone and share the glory with no one.

Develop your character
Design a face to frighten, or one to entice and then choose your race and your personality to fit.

Player-Driven Economy
Form a cartel of ruthless compatriots and control the spaceways. Buy, sell, and barter to amass great wealth... or do it the easy way with a hostile takeover.

There is an opt out, it's called station spinning.
As soon as you hit the undock button, you are agreeing to PVP

LOL

Like leaving your house, you agree to get raped in an alley by thugs.....

Your wit is obviously unmatched. Such wisdom and in-site. If only everyone had your views.....

lawl

LOL

Like leaving your house, you agree to get raped in an alley by thugs.....

Your wit is obviously unmatched. Such wisdom and in-site. If only everyone had your views.....

lawl

Like comparing real life to a video game.

Your wit is obviously non-existent.

human beings behave differently in games than real life?

Nobody is talking about opting in and out of PVP. We are talking about removing non-consensual PvP as a tool for griefers. Stop pretending the PvP world would fall apart if you couldn't grief highsec industrialists.

A vast majority of PvP takes place in low and null security space. In fact, nearly all PvP that occurs in high security space is griefing. So what's the loss to PvP if high sec griefing is curtailed?

Is the game really that worse off with griefing removed?

I'm still waiting on a valid, non slippery slope argument to why griefing in high security space should be allowed to continue.

LOL

Like leaving your house, you agree to get raped in an alley by thugs.....

Your wit is obviously unmatched. Such wisdom and in-site. If only everyone had your views.....

lawl

to be fair, i don't fly a spaceship in real life so I can't be sure how i would act if I did.

If your a pirate in-game, extorting people, I doubt your personality isnt much different in the real world. Taking advantage of other people however, whenever you can.

You do fly a spaceship, however in a game, they way you choose. im sure you act the same way irl if you had said spaceship(scary, I know)

So real world experience doesnt work in this game, human beings behave differently in games than real life?

LOL

Like leaving your house, you agree to get raped in an alley by thugs.....

Your wit is obviously unmatched. Such wisdom and in-site. If only everyone had your views.....

lawl

No, you don't, but you run the risk of it. And if it does happen, the police will be there to punish the criminals. They will not be there to prevent it.

But that's beside the point, since this is a GAME and is marketed as a MULTIPLAYER, PvP Interaction* focused, GAME. So equating getting ganked with being raped is in the worst of taste and pretty inaccurate.

*Note that I say PvP Interaction. This doesn't mean that I'm only talking pewpew in space. This includes Scamming (EBANK got and continues to get a ton of cool press for CCP), market PvP, espionage (the various Spy hits butan, news at 11 stories are more good recruiting material for CCP). Even Incursions were designed to encourage PvP (in the form of competing for sites).

If you came to this specific game for an experience that doesn't involve interplayer conflict resolution in all forms, you came to the wrong game. So sorry.

You missed the point..

There was no point to miss. It was an invalid equivalency. You were comparing an illegal IRL activity to an allowed (and even encouraged) in game activity. The two are not analogous.

Someone blowing up your spaceship in Eve is no more morally or ethically wrong than someone putting hotels on Park Place and Boardwalk or putting "Quixotic" on a triple word score. Regardless of how adversely it affects YOU, personally, it's perfectly okay within the context of the game. The rules permit this behavior. By playing the game, you implicitly agree to the rules of the game. When you go play Paintball, you are agreeing that people can shoot paintballs at you, because it's a game and those are the rules. Similarly, when you undock in Eve, you're agreeing that people can shoot at you, because this is a game and those are the rules. The fact that Eve has a lot more variation in potential activities than a round of paintball doesn't change that.

So, what, you think the rules shouldn't apply to you? Because that's about how it sounds.

This is the best summation and analogy I've heard in a long time.

Flying in EVE is also similar to ferrying a boat through the Gulf of Aden. If you got a big friggen hauler that is carrying a metric crapton of expensive goods, fully expect that there is a possibility of being attacked by Somali pirates in small weapon heavy skiffs who are going to ruin your day. This is life in EVE. Adapt or find another game to play.

There was no point to miss. It was an invalid equivalency. You were comparing an illegal IRL activity to an allowed (and even encouraged) in game activity. The two are not analogous.

Someone blowing up your spaceship in Eve is no more morally or ethically wrong than someone putting hotels on Park Place and Boardwalk or putting "Quixotic" on a triple word score. Regardless of how adversely it affects YOU, personally, it's perfectly okay within the context of the game. The rules permit this behavior. By playing the game, you implicitly agree to the rules of the game. When you go play Paintball, you are agreeing that people can shoot paintballs at you, because it's a game and those are the rules. Similarly, when you undock in Eve, you're agreeing that people can shoot at you, because this is a game and those are the rules. The fact that Eve has a lot more variation in potential activities than a round of paintball doesn't change that.

So, what, you think the rules shouldn't apply to you? Because that's about how it sounds.

ALTPOSTING BLURF

Post with your main if you're gonna call people on not posting with their main.

First, this isnt about me, I do have an attitude with certain players with play styles i disagree with, but guess what? I've known this for 7 years.

I dont understand how some people are so THICK! EVE O is indeed a pvp game. If you dont like it leave. The game will not bend for you. You are the one who is less flexible. That means you can either learn to deal with it, or you can find a game that is more suitable to your play style.

Eve online is NOT PVP............... try to shoot random ship in 0.5 - 1.0 sec......................

First, this isnt about me, I do have an attitude with certain players with play styles i disagree with, but guess what? I've known this for 7 years.


I dont live in hi-sec space, I live in null, I know the rules and the game, and if thats your main you post with, ive played a lot longer than you.

The biggest loss in 1 shot ive ever occurred was 6 billion. I didnt cry, didnt rage, didnt msg the 12 gankers that got me(yes it was hi-sec), I took it as a expensive lesson.

Rules should always apply, war dec mech dont mean much to me since I live in null.

Comparing this game to monopoly is moronic at best. You dont invest years into a single game of monoploy, nor pay a month sub, not buy plexes if your shiny hotels are sold.

If you think people dont have the right to complain, wtf you in the forums to begin with?

Arent you moving to France to get away from the paparazzi?

Eve online is NOT PVP............... try to shoot random ship in 0.5 - 1.0 sec......................

Eve online is NOT PVP............... try to shoot random ship in 0.5 - 1.0 sec......................

Seeing the bears here and the griefers in c&p both complaining like chicken little about the new mechanics i gotta say : looks like ccp hit the mark

So real world experience doesnt work in this game, human beings behave differently in games than real life?

I suggest you finish high school and learn the real world.

You mean the war dec mechanics? Ship balancing? Miner buffs in escalation?
...snip...

To go off on your tangent though.. I think that most people are going to welcome the war dec mechanics. The revived merc system, the lack of cheap griefing war decs, and the removal of dec shield. All good things. I can't wait to see how many corps start up as a result of the merc system.

Vexx

Quit your goddamn whining and play the real game. Dont like it? Dont let the door hit you in the ass on your way back to world of warcraft and hello kitty paradise pansy ***** fart *******.

Eve online is NOT PVP............... try to shoot random ship in 0.5 - 1.0 sec......................

ive done this a lot

usually, the ships i shot at blew up

its great fun

What people tend to not understand is that nearly everything outside of running missions is pvp.

I'm pretty sure everyone is familiar with what is PvP and what is not...

The OP was specifically talking about non-consensual PvP via suicide gank, being tricked into agression, and high sec war.


So much for the gankbears trying to claim they are the smarter ones in EvE.

I'm pretty sure everyone is familiar with what is PvP and what is not...

The OP was specifically talking about non-consensual PvP via suicide gank, being tricked into agression, and high sec war.


So much for the gankbears trying to claim they are the smarter ones in EvE.

I'm pretty sure everyone is familiar with what is PvP and what is not...

The OP was specifically talking about non-consensual PvP via suicide gank, being tricked into agression, and high sec war.


So much for the gankbears trying to claim they are the smarter ones in EvE.

Actually to be accurate, the OP was specifically talking about Wardec's. The OP makes no mention of agression tricks or suicide ganks.

Non-consensual ship to ship combat.

Is that simple enough for you gankbears?

First off, not everyone that disagrees with your views is a gankbear. And the OP started a thread on the premise of wardecs. There is an opt out essentially from wardecs. It is npc corps.

Technically there is an opt out to ganking as well. Stay in a starter system. <------ not true, you cannot stay noob for weeks

I don't really like suicide ganking. Personally I will never partake in it. But I wholly respect that it is a facet of this game and will defend the right for it to remain in EVE.

Non-consensual ship to ship combat.

Is that simple enough for you gankbears?

CCP has never advertised any part of EvE as "safe."
You joined this game with full knowledge that this sort of thing is possible and encouraged. Why are you trying to change the fundamentals of a game that other people enjoy when you knew what those fundamentals were when you started?

Now can we all grow a sac, end this discussion, and get back to work?

Not before I tell the Carebears one more thing...

... you know, why don't I let CCP Guard tell them.

Non-consensual ship to ship combat.

Is that simple enough for you gankbears?

Their no such thing has non-consensual ship to ship combat in EvE Online, you make it consensual as soon as you login the game.

Be fair, you'd be pissed too if you got your boat violenced while docked in station.

I'll just leave this here:

http://stinkinguplocal.wordpress.com/2012/04/09/save-me-from-non-consentual-pvp/

With the new War Dec mechanics it seems like there is no consideration to players who wish to take part in PVE activity only.

It would appear the only option available to none PVP type players is to stay in an NPC corp or join a large enough Corp which is unlikely to get War Dec'ed because of the cost.

What happened to Eve being a Sandbox allowing players to choose what they want to do.

A typical PVE player example which is no longer possible

1. I want to play Eve for fun and be a carebear
2. I want to run my own corp for me and my buddies
3. I don't want to take part in PVP so i live in hisec
4. Just let me play the game how i like to play it and leave me alone

It seems with the new War Dec mechanics players who want to run small scale corps for fun and carebear activities are now going to be extorted indefinately by PVP gangs. Misions runner corps, Minign Corps, Incursion Corps, ect will now be prime targets for small scale PVP gangs to extort leaving the carebeasr with no option but to return to NPC corps and ultimately bring an end to the player run corp's for PVE activities.

Before all the PVPers rage that a carebear shouldn't be safe, please hold that rage for another thread and debate... carebears pay there subscription like everyone else and should be allowed to play the game as they wish without being constantly griefed by other players which is basically what the new war dec mechanics will bring and the only way to avoid that is to be in an NPC corp where you can't gain the same control with your buddies from having your own corp.

How about an opt out of PVP option, is it really that important that eve becomes a completely PVP based game where carebears and new comers can't avoid being targetted and killed?

The argument that a carebear can stay in an NPC corp is flawed becuase that carebear might want to run a 5 man corp with himself and his RL friends, so they can meet up chare a corp experience and do the things together they liek to do in Eve, simply saying to those guys right you now have to go and join an NPC corp to be safe is a little unbalanced in favour of the PVPers as that same 5 man corp will disband, join NPC corps and miss out on all teh features which were available to them in a small corp such as sharing hisec POS rights, corp management roles and leaders.

Finally this may sound liek a big carebear crying but i'm simply trying to work out how this new mechanic will be balanced in favour of all players rather than just those PVP corps who will now be able to grief carebears and extort them which is a little unfair considering they pay to play a game we all share.

1. I want to play Eve for fun and be a carebear
2. I want to run my own corp for me and my buddies
3. I don't want to take part in PVP so i live in hisec
4. Just let me play the game how i like to play it and leave me alone

Schadenfreude isn't really a good basis for a gaming community.

Listen to me and don't make assumptions.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT REMOVING PVP.


PvP will still exist in every facet of the game, except high sec griefing of people who are not interested in PvP.

The argument is that the amount of actual carebears is small, so I'm still waiting for someone to come along and explain what the detriment to PVP would be if 1000 people who actively avoid pvp were suddenly immune to it?

Of course there is an opt-out, just stop playing EVE like I have. Most of the player base doesn't want us carebear types around, apparently, and CCP is mostly indifferent. So, why bother staying?

If EVE is such a sandbox then why are the benefits so heavily stacked towards PVP?

If EVE is such a sandbox then why are the benefits so heavily stacked towards PVP?

PVP ships can be both cheaply trained and bought. That isnt sandbox, that is proactively encouraging PVP through the dynamics of the game.

The fact is that CCP love PVP players. PVP players are most likely to fund 2+ accounts and make their playerbase look good and bring more RL cash to balance books.

Build a 5 man corp and close it the minute you get wardecced and start over again. Its a pain but if its the same folks griefing you they will probably give up in the end. Its not an ideal workaround but its the only one available and part of the way the game works.

I quit originally because because I was part of a medium sized corp that was consistently wardecced and 90% of the time i couldnt play because there were red tags everywhere.

People have set up external comms and websites and dont bother setting up ingame corps, which is another alternative.

Absolutely there should be no safe haven for carebears but I have to agree with the OP that the new mechanics are seriously flawed if they are left as is.

There is no consideration for griefer war decs where there is no point sitting on a station waiting for eternity to kill an alt who will never undock.

Hopefully they will clear up the mess of war decs rubbing off on pickup fleet logis to compensate. I think I remember them mentioning something along those lines in the FanFest keynotes...