EVE Search - Projectile Weapons and Latest Dev Chat

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Projectile Weapons and Latest Dev Chat

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Keltin	Posted - 2004.09.15 21:24:00 - [1] Originally by: http://www.eve-i.com/home/dancer/page/page_fullnews.php?id=1805 Hakera> Lord_Anubis> hi in the last dev chat we were told that projectiles were getting looked at have any ideas come of this since and if so when will it be applied ie post shiva? Hammerhead> Yes this is a post shiva thing. There is so much stuff to balance that's in shiva that any tweaking we do to projectiles is going to have to wait until then. Hammerhead> One thing I some some players might not know is that some of the projectiles like the 1400mm work better past their optimal range. Hammerhead> Due to the way that tracking works. Hammerhead> So your answer is no they haven't been looked at yet but as soon as there is time we will dig into that more. Hammerhead> * that line above should have read "One thing I think some..." This is interesting from the devs. He states specifically that the optimal range is not correct for 1400mm. Can it be assumed that ALL artillery suffers from this same circumstance? Have the devs dropped this little nugget of information so they can put off making the actual fix even longer? I don't know exactly what the deal is, but if someone knows what the real range for artillery projectiles are can you please post that information? "I have never had so much fun playing a game that I have trouble staying awake playing!"
Keltin	Posted - 2004.09.15 21:24:00 - [2] Originally by: http://www.eve-i.com/home/dancer/page/page_fullnews.php?id=1805 Hakera> Lord_Anubis> hi in the last dev chat we were told that projectiles were getting looked at have any ideas come of this since and if so when will it be applied ie post shiva? Hammerhead> Yes this is a post shiva thing. There is so much stuff to balance that's in shiva that any tweaking we do to projectiles is going to have to wait until then. Hammerhead> One thing I some some players might not know is that some of the projectiles like the 1400mm work better past their optimal range. Hammerhead> Due to the way that tracking works. Hammerhead> So your answer is no they haven't been looked at yet but as soon as there is time we will dig into that more. Hammerhead> * that line above should have read "One thing I think some..." This is interesting from the devs. He states specifically that the optimal range is not correct for 1400mm. Can it be assumed that ALL artillery suffers from this same circumstance? Have the devs dropped this little nugget of information so they can put off making the actual fix even longer? I don't know exactly what the deal is, but if someone knows what the real range for artillery projectiles are can you please post that information? "I have never had so much fun playing a game that I have trouble staying awake playing!"
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.09.15 21:36:00 - [3] Don't think you got what he said. Optimal and falloff stats govern the chance you've got to hit given range factors alone, 100% in optimal, and it lowers with a curve towards 50% at optimal+falloff. that covers range alone. Another factor in hitting is tracking. With the way tracking works, the lower your tracking, your changes of hitting a moving target are better further and further out. The end result is that optimal no longer gives you the exact range you wanna be shooting at. Thing is as well, the bigger the range nerf on your ammo, the further from optimal you wanna be at, while when using a long range ammo, optimal, very close or even within optimal might be the range where you get highest DOT. There's no clear answer to the question i use 1400mms what range should I shoot at, it depends on target and own movement, modules used, skill lvls, ammo used. Experience, and experimenting are your best bet at getting best performance from any turret. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.09.15 21:36:00 - [4] Don't think you got what he said. Optimal and falloff stats govern the chance you've got to hit given range factors alone, 100% in optimal, and it lowers with a curve towards 50% at optimal+falloff. that covers range alone. Another factor in hitting is tracking. With the way tracking works, the lower your tracking, your changes of hitting a moving target are better further and further out. The end result is that optimal no longer gives you the exact range you wanna be shooting at. Thing is as well, the bigger the range nerf on your ammo, the further from optimal you wanna be at, while when using a long range ammo, optimal, very close or even within optimal might be the range where you get highest DOT. There's no clear answer to the question i use 1400mms what range should I shoot at, it depends on target and own movement, modules used, skill lvls, ammo used. Experience, and experimenting are your best bet at getting best performance from any turret. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Dred 'Morte	Posted - 2004.09.15 21:37:00 - [5] i think the true optimal of 1400mm is Optimal+Falloff
Dred 'Morte	Posted - 2004.09.15 21:37:00 - [6] i think the true optimal of 1400mm is Optimal+Falloff
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2004.09.15 22:15:00 - [7] They all been workin @ optimal + falloff since they nerf 2-3 patches ago. I think everyone that pays attention will have known that. Especially when you cant hit at optimal _at all_. Then about 2 patches ago when the rest of the guns were fixed, most of the projectiles were fixed as well. Except the big ones accidentally got an additional nerf. So I am totally baffled as to why the projectiles need balancing while all the rest are supposed to be balanced. They wont even fix the mistaken double nerf, which effectively is a triple nerf since its 3 nerf sizes away from where its supposed to be, if you get my math. Fix the damn mistake, then lets talk about further balance. Why do I always seem to pick the race that gets nerfed in every game I'm not really that bummed out. But i wish they would simply fix their boo-boo. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2004.09.15 22:15:00 - [8] They all been workin @ optimal + falloff since they nerf 2-3 patches ago. I think everyone that pays attention will have known that. Especially when you cant hit at optimal _at all_. Then about 2 patches ago when the rest of the guns were fixed, most of the projectiles were fixed as well. Except the big ones accidentally got an additional nerf. So I am totally baffled as to why the projectiles need balancing while all the rest are supposed to be balanced. They wont even fix the mistaken double nerf, which effectively is a triple nerf since its 3 nerf sizes away from where its supposed to be, if you get my math. Fix the damn mistake, then lets talk about further balance. Why do I always seem to pick the race that gets nerfed in every game I'm not really that bummed out. But i wish they would simply fix their boo-boo. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Darkwolf	Posted - 2004.09.15 22:26:00 - [9] Edited by: Darkwolf on 15/09/2004 22:28:21 Great. So Minmatar weapons are supposed to operate way beyond their optimal range, to avoid their miserable tracking. Which then means they are going to miss more anyway (compared to other turrets) because they're shooting into their falloff. Oh, and they have a lower base DoT anyway. Oh yeah, and then all the Minmatar pilots get told that they'll have to wait an indeterminate amount of time (at least two months) before their racial weapon is made useable. Brilliant, CCP. Just brilliant.
Darkwolf	Posted - 2004.09.15 22:26:00 - [10] Edited by: Darkwolf on 15/09/2004 22:28:21 Great. So Minmatar weapons are supposed to operate way beyond their optimal range, to avoid their miserable tracking. Which then means they are going to miss more anyway (compared to other turrets) because they're shooting into their falloff. Oh, and they have a lower base DoT anyway. Oh yeah, and then all the Minmatar pilots get told that they'll have to wait an indeterminate amount of time (at least two months) before their racial weapon is made useable. Brilliant, CCP. Just brilliant.
Meridius	Posted - 2004.09.15 22:46:00 - [11] Apparently, Shiva is more important to CCP then the current state of affairs on TQ. I wish they would just fix the guns/missles once and for all so EVE can move forward instead of the nerf bat moving from weapon to weapon. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2004.09.15 22:46:00 - [12] Apparently, Shiva is more important to CCP then the current state of affairs on TQ. I wish they would just fix the guns/missles once and for all so EVE can move forward instead of the nerf bat moving from weapon to weapon. ________________________________________________________
Selim	Posted - 2004.09.15 23:48:00 - [13] Edited by: Selim on 15/09/2004 23:58:10 The funny thing is, the 425mm Railgun will have higher optimal + falloff range than the 1400mm when using the ammos that give longer range, all while having better tracking and better damage. Honestly... I have no idea what the devs are thinking. Artillery sucks. Its completely useless. The other weapons use a small amount of cap, sure, but the other ships also have ****loads more capacitor. It doesnt do anything. Minmatar were supposed to be the best damaging ships at long range. Now they're the worst. A 425mm railgun will outdamage a 1400mm at short range, medium range, and long range, it will out track it, it will even out range it at some points. When its not outranging it its only slightly behind.
Selim	Posted - 2004.09.15 23:48:00 - [14] Edited by: Selim on 15/09/2004 23:58:10 The funny thing is, the 425mm Railgun will have higher optimal + falloff range than the 1400mm when using the ammos that give longer range, all while having better tracking and better damage. Honestly... I have no idea what the devs are thinking. Artillery sucks. Its completely useless. The other weapons use a small amount of cap, sure, but the other ships also have ****loads more capacitor. It doesnt do anything. Minmatar were supposed to be the best damaging ships at long range. Now they're the worst. A 425mm railgun will outdamage a 1400mm at short range, medium range, and long range, it will out track it, it will even out range it at some points. When its not outranging it its only slightly behind.
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2004.09.16 00:09:00 - [15] That_is_without_a_doubt_absolute_bllsht! tomB your supposed to speak a bit louder in the staff meetings m8... you know what the customers want! -----
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2004.09.16 00:09:00 - [16] That_is_without_a_doubt_absolute_bllsht! tomB your supposed to speak a bit louder in the staff meetings m8... you know what the customers want! -----
Selim	Posted - 2004.09.16 00:22:00 - [17] Edited by: Selim on 16/09/2004 00:33:19 What needs to be done: Artillery - increase the small artillery (250mm, 650mm, 1200mm) from damage mod of 3.5 to 3.85, larger ones (280mm, 720mm, 1400mm) from 5 to 5.5. Then also make the projectile ammo do damage on par with the others. Increase optimal range by 10%. Then you have a high damage, low tracking long range weapon. Thats what Minmatar ships are all about. And you must also recognize... that with these stats, the artillery will still only be equal to hybrids when the ship has one more damage mod than the other. So, only a Tempest, with its TWO damage mods, would its artillery damage per second come equal to a 425mm railgun on a megathron. The minmatar ships with only one damage modifier would still do less damage. This is the problem. All projectiles, right now, need a ship bonus to come close to the damage of a hybrid or laser, without ship bonus. My ideas will make artillery balanced again. Autocannons - Make the short range ammo on par with the hybrid. Other than that, its good. Autocannons do their role fine. I forgot to mention the fact that large projectiles use 3 cap. Take that away, it doesnt do anything in the first place, taking it away would at least let the guns fire when you have 0 cap, which happens alot on minmatar ships... and then adding some projectile bonus to the controlled bursts skill, which gives a bonus to hybrids and lasers, but not projectiles. Unbalanced.
Selim	Posted - 2004.09.16 00:22:00 - [18] Edited by: Selim on 16/09/2004 00:33:19 What needs to be done: Artillery - increase the small artillery (250mm, 650mm, 1200mm) from damage mod of 3.5 to 3.85, larger ones (280mm, 720mm, 1400mm) from 5 to 5.5. Then also make the projectile ammo do damage on par with the others. Increase optimal range by 10%. Then you have a high damage, low tracking long range weapon. Thats what Minmatar ships are all about. And you must also recognize... that with these stats, the artillery will still only be equal to hybrids when the ship has one more damage mod than the other. So, only a Tempest, with its TWO damage mods, would its artillery damage per second come equal to a 425mm railgun on a megathron. The minmatar ships with only one damage modifier would still do less damage. This is the problem. All projectiles, right now, need a ship bonus to come close to the damage of a hybrid or laser, without ship bonus. My ideas will make artillery balanced again. Autocannons - Make the short range ammo on par with the hybrid. Other than that, its good. Autocannons do their role fine. I forgot to mention the fact that large projectiles use 3 cap. Take that away, it doesnt do anything in the first place, taking it away would at least let the guns fire when you have 0 cap, which happens alot on minmatar ships... and then adding some projectile bonus to the controlled bursts skill, which gives a bonus to hybrids and lasers, but not projectiles. Unbalanced.
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2004.09.16 00:52:00 - [19] minny ships need longer targeting ranges. they need more damage on gun and ammo needs to have more damage. it would be nice to replace their pre-nerf stats. its as simple as that. -----
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2004.09.16 00:52:00 - [20] minny ships need longer targeting ranges. they need more damage on gun and ammo needs to have more damage. it would be nice to replace their pre-nerf stats. its as simple as that. -----
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2004.09.16 01:56:00 - [21] No we dont even need to think up any solutions. CCP already had the solution. In stead of increasing the artillery falloff, they mistakenly reduced it. If they simply fix their error... I have been completely baffled at how they could admit the mistake, but continue to create patches that do not address this incredibly simple patch. Nor do they state that they state what the deal is with why they wont fix it!! CCP, if you changed yoru mine on the projectiles, just say so. Drop the mistake charade and admit to hosing the minmatar. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2004.09.16 01:56:00 - [22] No we dont even need to think up any solutions. CCP already had the solution. In stead of increasing the artillery falloff, they mistakenly reduced it. If they simply fix their error... I have been completely baffled at how they could admit the mistake, but continue to create patches that do not address this incredibly simple patch. Nor do they state that they state what the deal is with why they wont fix it!! CCP, if you changed yoru mine on the projectiles, just say so. Drop the mistake charade and admit to hosing the minmatar. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2004.09.16 03:32:00 - [23] I for one would like Minnie's with projectiles and Caldari's with missiles to have a specific role given to them that are balanced against lasers and hybrids. -----
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2004.09.16 03:32:00 - [24] I for one would like Minnie's with projectiles and Caldari's with missiles to have a specific role given to them that are balanced against lasers and hybrids. -----
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2004.09.16 04:58:00 - [25] Their abject refusal to address the rapidly growing crop of balance problems is mind-boggling. Postponing it until they're finished with Shiva however, is almost infuriating. Shouldn't have started on Shiva if you haven't finished with balancing, I say... So many things are currently wrong. Minmatar players are mounting mega pulse lasers (or The Best Gun In The Universe®) on their Tempests and Typhoons because of the staggering discrepancy in effectiveness between mega pulse lasers and BS projectiles... named projectile cannons and mega beam lasers are equally devalued on escrow, with people desperately trying to get rid of these unwanted guns to generate money to buy 40 million ISK mega pulses... wow.
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2004.09.16 04:58:00 - [26] Their abject refusal to address the rapidly growing crop of balance problems is mind-boggling. Postponing it until they're finished with Shiva however, is almost infuriating. Shouldn't have started on Shiva if you haven't finished with balancing, I say... So many things are currently wrong. Minmatar players are mounting mega pulse lasers (or The Best Gun In The Universe®) on their Tempests and Typhoons because of the staggering discrepancy in effectiveness between mega pulse lasers and BS projectiles... named projectile cannons and mega beam lasers are equally devalued on escrow, with people desperately trying to get rid of these unwanted guns to generate money to buy 40 million ISK mega pulses... wow.
Teras Dragimel	Posted - 2004.09.16 05:08:00 - [27] my minnie character started out in june, being training minnie ship and proj. skills since. people told me big proj. are borked but i didn't care, because i trusted ccp would have it fixed as soon asap. now 3 months on, i'v got my minnie bs, only to find that the big proj. are still borked and they have no plan to fix them. this game's no fun no more.
Teras Dragimel	Posted - 2004.09.16 05:08:00 - [28] my minnie character started out in june, being training minnie ship and proj. skills since. people told me big proj. are borked but i didn't care, because i trusted ccp would have it fixed as soon asap. now 3 months on, i'v got my minnie bs, only to find that the big proj. are still borked and they have no plan to fix them. this game's no fun no more.
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.09.16 06:51:00 - [29] Originally by: Darkwolf Edited by: Darkwolf on 15/09/2004 22:28:21 Great. So Minmatar weapons are supposed to operate way beyond their optimal range, to avoid their miserable tracking. Which then means they are going to miss more anyway (compared to other turrets) because they're shooting into their falloff. Considering the falloff curve, and how tracking works, those misses aren't all that common. And are nullifed and then some by the increased damage cause you track better. When all your hits are well aimed or excellent you can suffer a miss or two. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.09.16 06:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Darkwolf Edited by: Darkwolf on 15/09/2004 22:28:21 Great. So Minmatar weapons are supposed to operate way beyond their optimal range, to avoid their miserable tracking. Which then means they are going to miss more anyway (compared to other turrets) because they're shooting into their falloff. Considering the falloff curve, and how tracking works, those misses aren't all that common. And are nullifed and then some by the increased damage cause you track better. When all your hits are well aimed or excellent you can suffer a miss or two. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.