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Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.15 11:28:00 - [91] Originally by: PJRid** Originally by:** DeepBlue Originally by: Garia666 This discussion was about how to know when its an macro ratter. and what you point out are extra indicators. Its the behavior most of the times they go combined with these indicators. A strange name alone is not enough. The discussion is not about how to catch one.. there is NO way to be 100% sure. but a good indicator would be: - scramble the guy, if he didnt talk to you after 5 mins or tried to fire at you - chances are high that this is a bot. good idea,..but you cant do that in HISEC without torking off concord,...atleast i dont think! ummm,...can it be done? -=+>xXx<+=- warp scramming will get you concorded.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.15 11:31:00 - [92] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: PJRid** Originally by:** DeepBlue Originally by: Garia666 This discussion was about how to know when its an macro ratter. and what you point out are extra indicators. Its the behavior most of the times they go combined with these indicators. A strange name alone is not enough. The discussion is not about how to catch one.. there is NO way to be 100% sure. but a good indicator would be: - scramble the guy, if he didnt talk to you after 5 mins or tried to fire at you - chances are high that this is a bot. good idea,..but you cant do that in HISEC without torking off concord,...atleast i dont think! ummm,...can it be done? -=+>xXx<+=- warp scramming will get you fluffy bunnies. But don't tell him... ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.06.15 11:43:00 - [93] Cheap-fit Armageddon with smartbombs: 200M ISK 6 Hulks clustered around a GSC: 600M ISK If you really want to get rid of macro miners, this is the way to do it :) Note that CONCORD will not attack you while you're in a pod, so you can safely travel around to find a system at which someone accidentally leaves a suitably-fit Armageddon lying around. Torpedo raven will work just as well. Just remember to do it properly.
Alex Raptos Caldari Phoenix Rising.	Posted - 2009.06.15 12:05:00 - [94] Originally by: Mara Rinn Cheap-fit Armageddon with smartbombs: 200M ISK 6 Hulks clustered around a GSC: 600M ISK If you really want to get rid of macro miners, this is the way to do it :) Note that CONCORD will not attack you while you're in a pod, so you can safely travel around to find a system at which someone accidentally leaves a suitably-fit Armageddon lying around. Torpedo raven will work just as well. Just remember to do it properly. Cheap fit armageddon with smartbombs is closer to 90m, and less than that after insurance pays out (Prolly nearer 40m)
Arcelian Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.15 12:07:00 - [95] A lot of these "macros" are actually chinese isk farmers. In the Stain region in an adjacent system to where I reside there is always, and yes I mean ALWAYS one guy farming the rats. He doesn't speak very good english, and neither do his three alts. Is he breaking any rules? Nope. Does he sell isk? Most definitely. So...ban all the asian players?
Sir Muffoon Backdoor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.06.15 12:42:00 - [96] Originally by: Alex Raptos Originally by: Mara Rinn Cheap-fit Armageddon with smartbombs: 200M ISK 6 Hulks clustered around a GSC: 600M ISK If you really want to get rid of macro miners, this is the way to do it :) Note that CONCORD will not attack you while you're in a pod, so you can safely travel around to find a system at which someone accidentally leaves a suitably-fit Armageddon lying around. Torpedo raven will work just as well. Just remember to do it properly. Cheap fit armageddon with smartbombs is closer to 90m, and less than that after insurance pays out (Prolly nearer 40m) Yeah but you'd need 3 or so to take out a Hulk.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.15 13:16:00 - [97] Originally by: Sir Muffoon Originally by: Alex Raptos Originally by: Mara Rinn Cheap-fit Armageddon with smartbombs: 200M ISK 6 Hulks clustered around a GSC: 600M ISK If you really want to get rid of macro miners, this is the way to do it :) Note that CONCORD will not attack you while you're in a pod, so you can safely travel around to find a system at which someone accidentally leaves a suitably-fit Armageddon lying around. Torpedo raven will work just as well. Just remember to do it properly. Cheap fit armageddon with smartbombs is closer to 90m, and less than that after insurance pays out (Prolly nearer 40m) Yeah but you'd need 3 or so to take out a Hulk. Two or three thorax. Much cheaper anyway. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.15 13:54:00 - [98] Originally by: Garia666 3th. the most important one.. Someone who is ratting is doing so to make isk.. right? So if you finaly get a faction spawn or even an officer spawn you will take the f*cking loot. Macro ratters however do not. they will leave there cans in space. so when you know there active macro ratters arround pay a visit to the belts and harvest the faction loot. ( They have an option to do so however they can get stuck in the belt or roid ) The bot i saw on youtube does pick up loot (and you can decide what loot to pick up and from what wrecks like officer/commander spawn only).
Sir Muffoon Backdoor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:57:00 - [99] Originally by: Blane Xero Two or three thorax. Much cheaper anyway. That doesn't have the same area of death effect though.
Belmarduk Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2009.06.15 16:20:00 - [100] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Sorry.. but *****s ! As great as Eve is and as well I personally think CCP is running this game I am NOT satisfied how CCP deals with the Macro Situation... A petition about macros is futile - I have petitioned often enough and have given up because nothing is done anyway..... It took nearly a YEAR for a group of verified macrominers to be banned with numerous people petitioning them... It is no longer possible (or very difficult to) take care of the problem in highsec since the gank-nerf 2008... In 2006 CCP thought with removing ice-belts from 0,7+ would solve the problem - ***s CCP do something about the macros and RMT before this game goes the way Ultima Online did....** Greetings Belmarduk
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Can't Decide Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:00:00 - [101] Edited by: Ak''athra J''ador on 15/06/2009 17:00:39 Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! nobody attack this man. this is his professional obligation. he had to make this post. he is actually not that stupid. I mean its simply not possible that someone who is involved in creating the masterpiece that is eve would ever consider the above idea. if you however actually considered the above abomination...then please, if you love eve as much as i do, take your head and ram it through the nearest wall. and fear not, as they say, he who is wiser, will stop fighting. again...only if you actually considered it.
Carnelian X	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:04:00 - [102] 2 Statements for you: 1) CCP make a lot of money from isk sellers - go check out the timecod bizaree and see what sort of names are buying the gtcs at 850 mill a pop 2) Petitioned macro players are rarely banned or investigated Ill leave you to draw up a bizarre conspiracy theory
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:11:00 - [103] Originally by: Belmarduk Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Sorry.. but *****s ! As great as Eve is and as well I personally think CCP is running this game I am NOT satisfied how CCP deals with the Macro Situation... A petition about macros is futile - I have petitioned often enough and have given up because nothing is done anyway..... It took nearly a YEAR for a group of verified macrominers to be banned with numerous people petitioning them... It is no longer possible (or very difficult to) take care of the problem in highsec since the gank-nerf 2008... In 2006 CCP thought with removing ice-belts from 0,7+ would solve the problem - ***s CCP do something about the macros and RMT before this game goes the way Ultima Online did....** Greetings Belmarduk You don't get it. There are 2 reasons why they aren't immediatly banned as you wish: 1) your definitive proof is not so definitive when checked; 2) when they are really macro users/isk sellers CCP keep them under observation to get the whole web of contacts, buyers included. Getting the isk buyers and a whole group of isk sellers is way more efficient that getting 1 macro user today, one tomorrow.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:16:00 - [104] Originally by: Mara Rinn Cheap-fit Armageddon with smartbombs: 200M ISK 140M on fittings is "cheap"?
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Can't Decide Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:19:00 - [105] Edited by: Ak''athra J''ador on 15/06/2009 17:20:35 Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Belmarduk Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Sorry.. but *****s ! As great as Eve is and as well I personally think CCP is running this game I am NOT satisfied how CCP deals with the Macro Situation... A petition about macros is futile - I have petitioned often enough and have given up because nothing is done anyway..... It took nearly a YEAR for a group of verified macrominers to be banned with numerous people petitioning them... It is no longer possible (or very difficult to) take care of the problem in highsec since the gank-nerf 2008... In 2006 CCP thought with removing ice-belts from 0,7+ would solve the problem - ***s CCP do something about the macros and RMT before this game goes the way Ultima Online did....** Greetings Belmarduk You don't get it. There are 2 reasons why they aren't immediatly banned as you wish: 1) your definitive proof is not so definitive when checked; 2) when they are really macro users/isk sellers CCP keep them under observation to get the whole web of contacts, buyers included. Getting the isk buyers and a whole group of isk sellers is way more efficient that getting 1 macro user today, one tomorrow. yet in all this years it didn't do squat...so don't be stupid. did you see the logs chribba posted? people are losing faith, we need a warden to protect us!
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:20:00 - [106] Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador yet in all this years it didn't do squat...so don't be stupid. did you see the logs chribba posted? people are losing faith, we need a warden to protect us! Keep that ****ing spyware off my computer.
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Can't Decide Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:22:00 - [107] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador yet in all this years it didn't do squat...so don't be stupid. did you see the logs chribba posted? people are losing faith, we need a warden to protect us! Keep that ****ing spyware off my computer. why? got something to hide?
Cygg Minmatar Aegis Dynamics Unitary Enterprises	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:02:00 - [108] Macro Miners are easy to spot. Most miners will warp in and start mining and stay in the general area until full. Macros on the other hand Warp in at the end of the belt and start moving up and down while following the belt. Easy fix for it is to allow pilots to jam the miners without getting Concord ****ed. Just allow the use of jammers in High-Sec without Concord coming in. Not like we are hurting them, just not allowing them to target a rock is all.
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:08:00 - [109] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Suicide ganking. All other in game recourses are innefective. Not that Suiciding Macro'ers is efficient in terms of isk or time spent. What would make me feel better is it you were locked in a room with a PC and told your continued employment was dependant on how many Macrominers you could ban in an hour, then made to monitor newbie chat for an hour for every legitimate player you banned.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:09:00 - [110] Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador Edited by: Ak''athra J''ador on 15/06/2009 17:28:44 Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador yet in all this years it didn't do squat...so don't be stupid. did you see the logs chribba posted? people are losing faith, we need a warden to protect us! Keep that ****ing spyware off my computer. why? got something to hide? besides calling it spyware is kinda pushing it. and we wouldnt need something as complicated as warden...something far more simpler would do the job as well. then again it would take resources to develop... If you knew the exact methods warden takes of "investigating" you would be less enthusiastic to install something with it. Protip; Scanning process lists is just the start.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:24:00 - [111] I mine ice in a Hulk. It takes me 29 minutes for 4 cycles and 12 chunks of ice. Slow, but fine enough for me. I tend to use the same bookmark when warping to the belt. Other than not mining 23/7, how does one NOT look like a macro miner when mining ice? Ice mining was part of the reason I trained the trade skills; one has a lot of time to work the market while ice mining. I also do a lot of EVE-Central export uploads.
Descrambled	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:37:00 - [112] Do the 'ratter' macro bots also detect if a friendly is in the belt and then warp away? just wondering if the ratters I see where I normally go are bots as well.... How do they handle spotting a hostile in nullsec i wonder. They safespot ya too? sounds like these macros are widespread
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.15 19:25:00 - [113] Originally by: Descrambled Do the 'ratter' macro bots also detect if a friendly is in the belt and then warp away? just wondering if the ratters I see where I normally go are bots as well.... How do they handle spotting a hostile in nullsec i wonder. They safespot ya too? sounds like these macros are widespread they can do much more like this... cause they behave like players, its pretty hard to detect them :( from a bot site: - Warps to safe spot on ôHostile Spottedö and ôLow Tankö events - Optional use of Microwarpdrive - Drones control - Friendly pilot detection. ****bot won't ks (kill steal) friendly pilots ratting in a belt before you arrive ________________________________________________
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.06.15 20:24:00 - [114] Originally by: Descrambled Do the 'ratter' macro bots also detect if a friendly is in the belt and then warp away? just wondering if the ratters I see where I normally go are bots as well.... How do they handle spotting a hostile in nullsec i wonder. They safespot ya too? sounds like these macros are widespread They function using standings, using the standings icons. i.e. a blue wont bother them. They are fairly common in some areas. The problem is really that Local allows them to be almost invincible. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
Vidi Angelus Caldari Crystal Dynamics Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.06.15 20:32:00 - [115] Originally by: Doctor Penguin What CCP should do is go over all the macro programs people use to macro in EVE, and then place safeguards in place so that all the programs are caught. It's precisely what RuneScape have been doing, and macroing there has gone from being the plague of the game to almost totally gone. That, and nerf noob corps. If only it was that simple. Checks like these can be beaten with a simple virtual computer, which most macro accounts will be using regardless. All you'll manage is to stop the occasional script kiddy, but mainly **** of people like me who use macro's for other programs & Uses. Not to mention hardware macros. There is no Computer substitute for a human.
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Can't Decide Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.06.15 20:53:00 - [116] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador Edited by: Ak''athra J''ador on 15/06/2009 17:28:44 Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador yet in all this years it didn't do squat...so don't be stupid. did you see the logs chribba posted? people are losing faith, we need a warden to protect us! Keep that ****ing spyware off my computer. why? got something to hide? besides calling it spyware is kinda pushing it. and we wouldnt need something as complicated as warden...something far more simpler would do the job as well. then again it would take resources to develop... If you knew the exact methods warden takes of "investigating" you would be less enthusiastic to install something with it. Protip; Scanning process lists is just the start. well I understand warden quite well actually. done a lot of botting in wow... by itself it should not be legal...but you sign the eula before playing the game. and the eula states what the game can check. then again, its debatable weather the eula is binding or not... personally it is something i would gladly do. let them check... but that is me, the question is, what does the community feel? would you allow CCP to go through your ram to check for third party applications (bots)? is that the price you would pay to get rid of bots? i would...would you?
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.06.15 20:58:00 - [117] I wouldn't.
Ascuris Wurm	Posted - 2009.06.15 21:00:00 - [118] To prevent corp hopping by macro miners, maybe they could re-think the whole corp changing thing. What if everyone, regardless of roles has to wait until the next downtime until a corp switch is effective. So you click 'Confirm' and when you log in after the next downtime, you are logging in already in your new corp. Then you have to wait 2 downtimes to switch again. And if you switch on the very next one you can, it goes up to 4 downtimes until the next switch. For every possible downtime you could switch and don't, the waiting period also is reduced by 1. Example Day 1 - I confirm the switch from corp A to corp B Day 2 - I log in and find myself in corp B Day 3 - I hate corp B and confirm the switch to corp C Day 4 - Still in corp B Day 5 - I log in and find myself in Corp C Day 6 - I hate corp C and confirm the switch to corp D Day 7 - Still in corp C Day 8 - Still in corp C Day 9 - Still in corp C Day 10 - I log in and find myself in Corp D You can see how that would help wardeccing macro corps, right? There would actually be time to target them before they switch again. The more they try to abuse it, the worse it gets for them. Training up hulk pilots takes time after all, so they can't just create new chars. This was just off the top of my head and not thought through real deeply... flaws? Would any of you have any problem with waiting periods for corp switching? Wurm
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.15 21:14:00 - [119] Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador well I understand warden quite well actually. done a lot of botting in wow... by itself it should not be legal...but you sign the eula before playing the game. and the eula states what the game can check. then again, its debatable weather the eula is binding or not... personally it is something i would gladly do. let them check... but that is me, the question is, what does the community feel? would you allow CCP to go through your ram to check for third party applications (bots)? is that the price you would pay to get rid of bots? i would...would you? No, I would not. A simple Process scanner/Punkbuster esque "moniter check" thing i have no problem with; Warden on the other hand can quite simply go to hell. I was once inconvenienced when Warden a while back, and by inconvenienced it was one of those things you sit and look at and go "Who the **** was stupid enough to think that was a good idea?" especially when it costs you hours of your time to repair the "Damages". I'm not fond of installing programs on my computer that someone halfway across the world can connect to and then force MORE CRAP down my bandwidth pipes in the name of an "update" without my express permission. Also, warden crashing mid memory-scan corrupting downloads and open programs; Priceless.
Belmarduk Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2009.06.15 23:13:00 - [120] After writing a ****ing long post and the bloody forum unlogging me - short version: CCP do something before it hurts the game. Period

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