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PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:50:00 - [1] Dear CCP I am making this in the public forums to discuss what can be done with the macros that are in EVE,..all over eve to be exact. The other night i was out trying t mine when 3 or 4 macros come in and to the point they were having macro wars,....kind of funny actually,..they were all fighting over the roids,...all there miners shooting allthe roids and circleing the roids,....I jsut left,..that was all i could do, bu tthats not the point here. These macros seem to be in game all over EVE and CCP,..you dont seem to do anything about it. Ive reported it before,...but nothing seems to be done about it, and its getting worse. This just realy takes away from those of us that want to play the game as it is intended to be played. Those that macro seem to reep the benifits of such a program that is for sure, but here i sit, trying to make good but the macros have beet me to it. Is there anything tha tyou can do about this? I do have a solution CCP,...but you wont like it, but it is a solution. before i start poping macros, ill email one of you guys with my intent, and ill try to contact the macro and give him like 30 minutes to respond. If i dont here anything from him after 30 minutes then he gets poped. of course ill get my ship concorded,...but ,..if i talke all the precautions to contact the macro,...Ill be reimbursed my ship,... Its a suggestion CCP,...and a fair one to boot. macors are not allowed in the game. do something about it. These macros are ruining the game almost as bad as the POS deal a while back. I awate for your reply on this matter. -=+>xXx<+=- Rid****
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:52:00 - [2] and how do you prove that they are using macro's that is the only problem subject has already been and gone if you suspect a macro petition it and CCP will look into it kthankbye
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:54:00 - [3] Edited by: Blane Xero on 12/06/2009 12:55:13 Can you prove without a second glance that the suspected person is not just someone mining on an alt account while doing something else on another and hence not paying attention to the miner beyond the tab and back to check the ore? Proof requires more than "But he's there whenever i'm there" (Well, eh, so are you) and "But his name is skjfgsdkjfg" Even better, can you prove it is not a sweatshop farmer? In this case nobody does anything wrong within the game until the selling/aiding of selling isk.
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:55:00 - [4] if they were fighting each other, they weren't macros. in after armoured.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:56:00 - [5] How would it be different from a corp of miners with active pilots that came into 'your' belt and started to mine 'your' roids?
Kaylani Walli	Posted - 2009.06.12 13:06:00 - [6] Some replies on topics such as this are rubbish..."Duh...how do you know it's a macro?...you're a racist..." What a bunch of ignorant gits! There are macros in use all over the stinkin' ice fields at any given time! Hell, there are multiple macro crews in Outuni right now. I agree with the OP! CCP, please do something about it!
Sir Muffoon Backdoor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.06.12 13:11:00 - [7] "CONCORD, seeing an increased amount of highsec smuggling and other nefarious things among highsec people, have officially decided to take action. From now on, the use of strip miners and the issuing of "level 4" class missions will be restricted to those pod pilots who are working within a corporation. We view this is as the simplest solution to the problems seen. o/"
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.06.12 13:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Sir Muffoon "CONCORD, seeing an increased amount of highsec smuggling and other nefarious things among highsec people, have officially decided to take action. From now on, the use of strip miners and the issuing of "level 4" class missions will be restricted to those pod pilots who are working within a corporation. We view this is as the simplest solution to the problems seen. o/" Make CEO alt on each of the 'macro' accounts, give out no roles. Have miners in corp and if wardecced switch instantly to other corp. 5 acccounts = 5 corp, good luck with the wardec fee. Self-proclaimed idiot
Sir Muffoon Backdoor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.06.12 13:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Tzar'rim Make CEO alt on each of the 'macro' accounts, give out no roles. Have miners in corp and if wardecced switch instantly to other corp. 5 acccounts = 5 corp, good luck with the wardec fee. I saw that happening, but seeing as though it's an exploit at the moment after a few months CCP might actually take action. Atleast it's better than the situation at the moment.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.06.12 13:22:00 - [10] Leaving a corp is an exploit? Are you sure on that, do you have factual proof (I'm honestly interested, not being sarcastic). AFAIK some DEV stated a while ago that leaving a corp for whatever reason is a valid tactic. Self-proclaimed idiot
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.12 13:22:00 - [11] Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: Sir Muffoon "CONCORD, seeing an increased amount of highsec smuggling and other nefarious things among highsec people, have officially decided to take action. From now on, the use of strip miners and the issuing of "level 4" class missions will be restricted to those pod pilots who are working within a corporation. We view this is as the simplest solution to the problems seen. o/" Make CEO alt on each of the 'macro' accounts, give out no roles. Have miners in corp and if wardecced switch instantly to other corp. 5 acccounts = 5 corp, good luck with the wardec fee. Make it so that if you are in a corp that is at war and leave before the first two weeks, and then join another corp at war with the same corp you are locked into that war for the next 2 weeks. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.06.12 13:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Tzar'rim Leaving a corp is an exploit? Are you sure on that, do you have factual proof (I'm honestly interested, not being sarcastic). AFAIK some DEV stated a while ago that leaving a corp for whatever reason is a valid tactic. Continuous 'Corp Hopping' to avoid wardecs is classed as an exploit. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
Sir Muffoon Backdoor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.06.12 13:33:00 - [13] Edited by: Sir Muffoon on 12/06/2009 13:34:23 Originally by: Tzar'rim Leaving a corp is an exploit? Are you sure on that, do you have factual proof (I'm honestly interested, not being sarcastic). AFAIK some DEV stated a while ago that leaving a corp for whatever reason is a valid tactic. I thought I saw a dev say it was an exploit to leave a corp for the reason to avoid a wardec continuously. One sec. fakeedit; after looking, turns out the exploit I read about only applies to people who joined corps, attacked someone and then left straight after. Funny that. Well, it's still better than the current situation. Some macros might forget to leave the corp, or something. I don't see the difference between corp hopping and the iMune alliance "exploit" though, sorry for the confusion.
Karentaki Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.12 13:41:00 - [14] Simple way to identify macros: If they are playing 23/7 on a regular basis, then they are either account sharing or macroing. Both are exploits. Ban them.
Confuzer Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.06.12 14:13:00 - [15] There are somany easy things which make it allready better: - Hard to read CAPTCHA when creating account - Give players easier ways to report macro instead of **** petition interface (instead use right click menu) - Ask other game companies for help on client side detection - Delay local long enough for people to catch macro ratters in mining belts - Make content more dynamic - And lots more small points...
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.06.12 14:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Karentaki Simple way to identify macros: If they are playing 23/7 on a regular basis, then they are either account sharing or macroing. Both are exploits. Ban them. we wish it was that simple
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.12 14:32:00 - [17] Originally by: Confuzer - Make content more dynamic Of your suggestions, this is the only one that would make any real difference (for a while).

CCP Zymurgist	Posted - 2009.06.12 14:39:00 - [18] If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew!

Ervol Libra Amarr Pinky and the Brain corp	Posted - 2009.06.12 14:52:00 - [19] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Disable concord first tyvm or move everyone out of npc corps. else pew pew isnt really an option (unless ur a rich bastard with enough alts to take the sec hits)
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.06.12 14:59:00 - [20] Originally by: Ervol Libra Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Disable concord first tyvm or move everyone out of npc corps. else pew pew isnt really an option (unless ur a rich bastard with enough alts to take the sec hits) This Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Standards and Practices	Posted - 2009.06.12 15:01:00 - [21] Originally by: Ervol Libra Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Disable concord first tyvm or move everyone out of npc corps. else pew pew isnt really an option (unless ur a rich bastard with enough alts to take the sec hits) Not to be a spoilsport...but if you were to say look in Crime&Punishment...Look for threads mentioning suiciding hulks. And join them folks.. They seem to be having a blast (literally). If the situation irks you so badly.. Go for it. The sec hits for just straight up ship destruction isn't too bad, and you don't need that much firepower to blast a hulk out of the sky (and after insurance, its not that expensive) The situation does not irk me at all..so I don't do it. (Well, okay..maybe once but I was running a protection racket at the time and they hadn't paid on time ) -- Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
Karentaki Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.12 15:02:00 - [22] Originally by: Sun Clausewitz Originally by: Karentaki Simple way to identify macros: If they are playing 23/7 on a regular basis, then they are either account sharing or macroing. Both are exploits. Ban them. we wish it was that simple Explain... Please. I'm interested how you propose someone can play 23/7 regularly without dying. Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Sir Muffoon Backdoor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.06.12 15:04:00 - [23] Originally by: Karentaki Explain... Please. I'm interested how you propose someone can play 23/7 regularly without dying. It's not that simple because CCP is desperately clinging to any excuse in order to not ban them.
Admiral IceBlock Caldari Northern Intelligence	Posted - 2009.06.12 15:06:00 - [24] Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 12/06/2009 15:06:38 http://noint.net/entertainment/farm/ Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Thebro Nobrunder Schrodinger's Renegades	Posted - 2009.06.12 15:08:00 - [25] They don't need to reimburse your ship loss. 4+ of the right T1 cruisers with T1 modules can gank a hulk in high sec. You effectively loose nothing. Even the sec hit is minimal as long as you don't pod the guy.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.06.12 15:21:00 - [26] Macro mining belts is bad enough, but really not such a problem because if you send in a bunch of macros the belt will be cleared quickly and then the ore is gone - the search for new or can take a while. Mission mining is a bit worse. But the real problem is ice harvesting. There is (almost) infinite supply of ice at always the same location. You can send in fleets of macros and efficiently scale your income with each more bot. And this is what happens right now. Please CCP, look into ice harvesting seriously. Thin out those ice belts drastically. And what happened with your plans to move ice belts to low sec anyway? It was announced more than 1 1/2 years ago, nothing happened since then, did it?
Etien Aldragoran DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.06.12 15:35:00 - [27] I cant imagine Eve without macros. Trit might become more valuable than mexallon.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.12 15:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Etien Aldragoran I cant imagine Eve without macros. Trit might become more valuable than mexallon again. fixed
Zex Maxwell Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.12 15:37:00 - [29] I like to add: The current mining system makes it way to easy to manage mining alts. I have 1 Orca and 2 Hulks mining on a belt at the same time. I heard and seen people doing more hulks at the same time. I also like to add, I don't macro mine. I rather sit on my PC for hours on end, then have a big chance of loosing my accounts due to macro mining, Or loose my ships when I am AFK.
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.06.12 15:44:00 - [30] Originally by: Sir Muffoon Originally by: Karentaki Explain... Please. I'm interested how you propose someone can play 23/7 regularly without dying. It's not that simple because CCP is desperately clinging to any excuse in order to not ban them. Completely. Banning them would result in less income. That will make them unhappy.
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.06.12 16:05:00 - [31] Would they really pay for Eve with real money considering the exchange rate though? I doubt it myself. I would've imagined RMT macroers earn enough isk to sub all their accounts using GTC's within a day or so. But then I think noone would be able to do a financial exchange with a macro player without CCP intervention, or so they say. Yeah my moneys on GTC's for isk.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.12 16:14:00 - [32] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Would they really pay for Eve with real money considering the exchange rate though? I doubt it myself. I would've imagined RMT macroers earn enough isk to sub all their accounts using GTC's within a day or so. So? The subscriptions still get paid, so their continual presence in the game still means money in CCP's pocket. Remove them and CCP earns less… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.12 16:14:00 - [33] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Yeh sure. There are also 10x more game mechanics stopping you from engaging macros including: concord, buffed concord, yet again buffed concord, empire wars nerf, corp hopping, alliance hopping, blocking alliances from wardecs, noob corps, more noob corps, logoffski etc. Everything ingame, everything for macros to abuse. And petition is worthless. Per one macro banned you have 10 new in its place: all payed by the isk "caught" one managed to get.
Cat Molina Minmatar Intransigent	Posted - 2009.06.12 16:16:00 - [34] Originally by: Gnulpie But the real problem is ice harvesting. There is (almost) infinite supply of ice at always the same location. You can send in fleets of macros and efficiently scale your income with each more bot. [...] And what happened with your plans to move ice belts to low sec anyway? It was announced more than 1 1/2 years ago, nothing happened since then, did it? ^^This. Macro-mining ice (in Empire, of course) wasn't a problem in the past. It was difficult to move the goods to null-sec. But when jump mechanics were added, it suddenly became easier to buy fuel in Empire and jump it to null-sec than to actually mine your own. *This is the cause of the bloated 0.0 POS networks that take forever to dismantle.* However, CCP refuses to upset this particular applecart since it would anger those in the null-sec alliances unwilling to mine their own fuel. Instead of fixing the mistake (making allowances for Empire POS owners and then moving ice products from Empire), they would rather attempt to create a new sovereignty system out of whole cloth. Should be interesting to see the ripple effects from that.
Doctor Penguin Amarr Heavy Influence Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.12 16:17:00 - [35] What CCP should do is go over all the macro programs people use to macro in EVE, and then place safeguards in place so that all the programs are caught. It's precisely what RuneScape have been doing, and macroing there has gone from being the plague of the game to almost totally gone. That, and nerf noob corps.
EnslaverOfMinmatar Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.06.12 17:00:00 - [36] Spawn more Chribbas in the belts and then the macros will starve uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
Bklyn 1	Posted - 2009.06.12 17:05:00 - [37] I love how the isk buyers come running into these threads to defend the macro-miners.
Alora Venoda GalTech Whiskey Creek Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.12 18:10:00 - [38] don't forget about the market macros... they are as bad or maybe even worse for EVE than macro miners.
Edgar Wind	Posted - 2009.06.12 18:10:00 - [39] i know a lot a isk farmer for isk buyer ingame. ccp don't do nothing beacous 10 % account subscription is payer bby people farming money. i have evidence, about this extra popolation of noob corporation character doing their work. this is on mission but i can immagine also macroing them or salvage or mining as u said.
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.13 11:51:00 - [40] I found it,..haha,... people i am sorry but i jsut reposted this discussion,..CCP if you see this,..delete the onther post that i jsut did,..mybad! ANYWAY,...You are all right,...there are a lot of variables to macro nminers, its odd that CCP hasent come up with something yet to fwart the situation, these macros are only making things realy bad all over. drives the prices up all over and from what ive been told, this is where the isk sellers are getting there isk for the off site selling of isk, well one of the places that is. As i posted a bit ago, and i will reinerate here,... "Macro mining is an exploit, almost as big and bad as the POS exploit and is a bannable offence by the EULA" And i ahve given a solution to the problem of the macros,...make up a script where we can convo them and if they dont respond in a certain amout of time, then pop them, with out concord intervention. I dont feel its fair that these macros reap all the reward for running macros while im spending hours relentlessly mining and the macros are off playing golf, or playing with there boyfriends or what ever.....Just seriously torks me off
Lilla Kharn Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.13 11:52:00 - [41] If you made 5 alt corps and then war dec'd each other 5 ways, then declared mutual, will anyone war dec'ing those corps have to pay an exorbitant amount of money to have the dec?
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.06.13 13:48:00 - [42] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: 5pinDizzy Would they really pay for Eve with real money considering the exchange rate though? I doubt it myself. I would've imagined RMT macroers earn enough isk to sub all their accounts using GTC's within a day or so. So? My point was the part you cut off at the end. I heard CCP's plan originally was supposed to be to just let the macroers do what they like as it's too much work to keep banning them, but isolate them from the real players by having a heavy hand with RMT transactions and such. This appears to be failing very badly in part because all the isk they would use to buy GTC's will be macroed isk where they can easily afford to drag the GTC prices up and pay whatever they need to stay into the game, while this will also be pumping hundreds of millions of macroed isk into real player account circulation who they buy the GTC's off, the worth of ISK falls again, helping to wreck the economy a bit more on top of their mining. It would also seem incredibly hippocritical if they have and do let GTC exchanges with macro RMT's slide with all the isk they've seized in the past from people who've unknowingly recieved laundered isk.
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.13 14:05:00 - [43] Originally by: PJRid** Dear CCP I am making this in the public forums to discuss what can be done with the macros that are in EVE,..all over eve to be exact. The other night i was out trying t mine when 3 or 4 macros come in and to the point they were having macro wars,....kind of funny actually,..they were all fighting over the roids,...all there miners shooting allthe roids and circleing the roids,....I jsut left,..that was all i could do, bu tthats not the point here. These macros seem to be in game all over EVE and CCP,..you dont seem to do anything about it. Ive reported it before,...but nothing seems to be done about it, and its getting worse. This just realy takes away from those of us that want to play the game as it is intended to be played. Those that macro seem to reep the benifits of such a program that is for sure, but here i sit, trying to make good but the macros have beet me to it. Is there anything tha tyou can do about this? I do have a solution CCP,...but you wont like it, but it is a solution. before i start poping macros, ill email one of you guys with my intent, and ill try to contact the macro and give him like 30 minutes to respond. If i dont here anything from him after 30 minutes then he gets poped. of course ill get my ship concorded,...but ,..if i talke all the precautions to contact the macro,...Ill be reimbursed my ship,... Its a suggestion CCP,...and a fair one to boot. macors are not allowed in the game. do something about it. These macros are ruining the game almost as bad as the POS deal a while back. I awate for your reply on this matter. -=+>xXx<+=- Rid** sir i have 4 accounts and 2 pc and sometimes i mine whit all of them, that make me a macro ?
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.13 14:22:00 - [44] People who say ccp doesnt ban macroers because they make money from them, think before making stupid posts. If CCP could kill all macro'ers, and effectively shutting down RMT, then all the RMT'ers would need to buy their isk with gtcs, and ccp would become rich. 10% macro'ers? 90% of internet statistics are made up... And brilliant idea OP, no concord protection for everyone who autorejects chat invitations
KaarBaak Minmatar Squirrel Team	Posted - 2009.06.13 14:24:00 - [45] Originally by: Bklyn 1 I love how the isk buyers come running into these threads to defend the macro-miners. I love these 'EVE-patriotism' responses: "You're either with us, or you're an isk-buyer." LOL KB KB
Zaiyo Modi Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.13 15:24:00 - [46] I petitioned a guy who clearly used a macro to spam. The spam moved over from local chat to a private convo that I initiated, and then it kept going repeatedly with variants of spam messages for over an hour until either I or the macroguy closed the convo window. If I search for the guy, his name get listed and that makes me think ccp did not ban him at all. I want to say that I really hate the isk spam in my "national" chat, one day I will quit because of this. I don't know what ccp is really thinking about this. It's a shame!
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.13 15:38:00 - [47] Originally by: Furb Killer People who say ccp doesnt ban macroers because they make money from them, think before making stupid posts. If CCP could kill all macro'ers, and effectively shutting down RMT, then all the RMT'ers would need to buy their isk with gtcs, and ccp would become rich. Question is, though, who would buy all those GTCs…? In order for CCP to become rich, there would have to be an influx of players (or at least accounts) to swallow that increase in GTC availability. There is a finite demand for how many GTCs can be sold — any more than that and you start to cannibalise existing subscriptions and add zero income (because people stop subscribing and start buying the GTCs the reformed RMT:ers dump on the market for next to nothing). …well, unless CCP introduced NPC buy orders on PLEXes, but then ~~their journey to the dark side~~ the tranformation to clear cut ISK-faucet-for-$$$ would be complete, and would put RMTers to shame in how much it would screw up the economy.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.13 15:43:00 - [48] Originally by: Tzar'rim Leaving a corp is an exploit? Are you sure on that, do you have factual proof (I'm honestly interested, not being sarcastic). AFAIK some DEV stated a while ago that leaving a corp for whatever reason is a valid tactic. The rule is: if you do something clever with game mechanics to avoid being blown up, it's never an exploit. if you do something clever with game mechanics to blow someone up, it is usually an exploit. So changing corp to escape a wardec is fine. But changing corp to sneak up on someone is an exploit.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.13 15:47:00 - [49] Originally by: Cat Molina Originally by: Gnulpie But the real problem is ice harvesting. There is (almost) infinite supply of ice at always the same location. You can send in fleets of macros and efficiently scale your income with each more bot. [...] And what happened with your plans to move ice belts to low sec anyway? It was announced more than 1 1/2 years ago, nothing happened since then, did it? ^^This. Macro-mining ice (in Empire, of course) wasn't a problem in the past. It was difficult to move the goods to null-sec. But when jump mechanics were added, it suddenly became easier to buy fuel in Empire and jump it to null-sec than to actually mine your own. *This is the cause of the bloated 0.0 POS networks that take forever to dismantle.* However, CCP refuses to upset this particular applecart since it would anger those in the null-sec alliances unwilling to mine their own fuel. Instead of fixing the mistake (making allowances for Empire POS owners and then moving ice products from Empire), they would rather attempt to create a new sovereignty system out of whole cloth. Should be interesting to see the ripple effects from that. Most people in null-sec alliances would cry tears of joy if the POS spam were reduced
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.13 15:47:00 - [50] Edited by: Blane Xero on 13/06/2009 15:47:44 Leaving a corp is fine; Setting a corp up with 3-4-5-6 (Etc) different body corps and hopping between them as one goes to war, is not. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Cyprus Black Caldari 4 wing Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.06.13 15:53:00 - [51] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. This is about the extent of what happens. We find them, we report them, and that's it. They're still ingame and still macro mining. It's as if filing a petition against known macro miners is useless as no action is ever taken against them. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Unfortunately due to concord, a players loss in trying to stop macro miners is more than the macro miners loss. It is not financially feasible to kill them. ______________ Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.13 17:33:00 - [52] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Furb Killer People who say ccp doesnt ban macroers because they make money from them, think before making stupid posts. If CCP could kill all macro'ers, and effectively shutting down RMT, then all the RMT'ers would need to buy their isk with gtcs, and ccp would become rich. Question is, though, who would buy all those GTCsà? In order for CCP to become rich, there would have to be an influx of players (or at least accounts) to swallow that increase in GTC availability. There is a finite demand for how many GTCs can be sold ù any more than that and you start to cannibalise existing subscriptions and add zero income (because people stop subscribing and start buying the GTCs the reformed RMT:ers dump on the market for next to nothing). àwell, unless CCP introduced NPC buy orders on PLEXes, but then ~~their journey to the dark side~~ the tranformation to clear cut ISK-faucet-for-$$$ would be complete, and would put RMTers to shame in how much it would screw up the economy. Looking at the plex/gtc prices, and how much they used to cost, there can be quite a few extra sellers of gtcs without problems. And when they become cheaper more people will start using alts.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.13 17:54:00 - [53] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Yeh sure. There are also 10x more game mechanics stopping you from engaging macros including: concord, buffed concord, yet again buffed concord, empire wars nerf, corp hopping, alliance hopping, blocking alliances from wardecs, noob corps, more noob corps, logoffski etc. Everything ingame, everything for macros to abuse. And petition is worthless. Per one macro banned you have 10 new in its place: all payed by the isk "caught" one managed to get. Yeah, this pretty much. Virtually every change to hi-sec in the last 2 years has been a relatively greater benefit to macroers/sweatshoppers than to anyone else. When will people realise that making the game safer and easier disproportionately advantages ISK-farmers/macros over normal players? And CCP tolerating for months on end utterly blatant macroing (like we see in Igunn, to name an especially egregious example) doesn't really motivate me to spend time and effort petitioning. If you actually want to have players police the macro/farmer problem, then that's fine - but end the huge bias in mechanics that hinder us from doing so.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.13 17:58:00 - [54] Originally by: RedSplat Originally by: Tzar'rim Leaving a corp is an exploit? Are you sure on that, do you have factual proof (I'm honestly interested, not being sarcastic). AFAIK some DEV stated a while ago that leaving a corp for whatever reason is a valid tactic. Continuous 'Corp Hopping' to avoid wardecs is classed as an exploit. Wrong. You can always leave a corp. And you can always join a corp. Dream less. If you are convinced try petitioning it. You will be sorely disappointed.
Major Stallion Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.13 17:59:00 - [55] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition (to which nothing will be done about) including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! fyp...b/c we all know CCP needs the income from the macro accounts, no matter how many times they say theyre on a "crusade" to keep them out of the game.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.13 18:09:00 - [56] Originally by: Zaiyo Modi I petitioned a guy who clearly used a macro to spam. The spam moved over from local chat to a private convo that I initiated, and then it kept going repeatedly with variants of spam messages for over an hour until either I or the macroguy closed the convo window. If I search for the guy, his name get listed and that makes me think ccp did not ban him at all. I want to say that I really hate the isk spam in my "national" chat, one day I will quit because of this. I don't know what ccp is really thinking about this. It's a shame! Banned people stay on the character list, they aren't biomassed.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.13 19:43:00 - [57] If basic isk earning game play in EVE required more intelligence than a simply macro can provide, the problem will be solved. Unless, you think, the player base can't deal when mining isn't a task anymore that can be automated, but requires intelligence decisions within regular intervals.
ovenproofjet Caldari Swords of Clarity Galactic Federation of Varied Operations	Posted - 2009.06.13 22:54:00 - [58] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! And what exactly do you do with these petitons? Burn them for heat at CCP? I sent in a petition about a GROUP of obvious macro miners and I've yet to get a reply about it. Suppose you guys are more worried about these guys subscriptions than actually caring about the very game you've spent, what, 10 years working on? Sounds pretty crazy actually
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.13 23:23:00 - [59] Regardless,...one that leaves a corp is not a problem withme,..its ging into a npc and macroing and having concord protect yoru ars is a problem,... Big Brother is watching!,...that seems to be the problem. -=+>xXx<+=- Originally by: Tzar'rim Leaving a corp is an exploit? Are you sure on that, do you have factual proof (I'm honestly interested, not being sarcastic). AFAIK some DEV stated a while ago that leaving a corp for whatever reason is a valid tactic.
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.13 23:25:00 - [60] Originally by: Tzar'rim How would it be different from a corp of miners with active pilots that came into 'your' belt and started to mine 'your' roids? Teh miners that i comne accrost are ususally polite,..and if you ask them tomove, they do. I ususally mine with my alt, and if they are mining alone, ill ask them to belly up, and mine with me, ill even go so far as to ask them if they want me to haul for them. Out where i am as in other systems, we all know each other,..prolem is that there are those that are macros,..and im starting to see who those are too.
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.13 23:27:00 - [61] Originally by: RedSplat Originally by: Tzar'rim Leaving a corp is an exploit? Are you sure on that, do you have factual proof (I'm honestly interested, not being sarcastic). AFAIK some DEV stated a while ago that leaving a corp for whatever reason is a valid tactic. Continuous 'Corp Hopping' to avoid wardecs is classed as an exploit. Get CCP to see it that way
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.13 23:37:00 - [62] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Shinning,...we got your attention,.....OH heres a question for you,...with you saying that,.."Pew-Pew" i take it that you dont care if macros are in game,...even though macroing is in direct violation of the EULA. Why dont you give some kind of tool that we can use with out loosing a ship or standings. I posted my thougths on thsi matter in the beginning of this post. warn the macro one time wait 20 minutes for them to respond then take them,..make the took so that concord will not respond. Heres the deal. if they are macroing,..that means that they will not be at the keys. If they are, then they should be able to ketch the notice on there screen and espond to it. if they dont respond, then it gives the hunter legal rites to take there ship with out concord interaction. End of macro,...end of exploit. Teh only way that i can see if this becomes an exploit is if people start using this to ganp people,...so in the programming code,...make it so that it can only be used with express prior atority from CCP,..the GMs or concord,...as to "record" all there actions so tha tif there is a mistaken friendly fire insodent, it will be in record and there ship be reimbursed. Look ,...CCP,......something has to be done about this,....its tuff enuf playing this game with out the macros.,..and i dont want to go out and screw up my standing popping some stinking macros jsut so that i can mine in piece. -=+>xXx<+=-
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.13 23:40:00 - [63] Originally by: Sir Muffoon Originally by: Karentaki Explain... Please. I'm interested how you propose someone can play 23/7 regularly without dying. It's not that simple because CCP is desperately clinging to any excuse in order to not ban them. dont ban them,...jsut make it harder for them to operate,...... now THAT would be fun!,...pew-pew! -=+>xXx<+=-
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.13 23:46:00 - [64] I GO TIT,..I GOT IT,...CCP,..I GOT TH EANSWER TO THE WHOLE DELEMA!!!!! i donwloaded one of the free programs and looked it,..too easy! al lthat CCP has to do is evertime that there is an undoc request,...move the requestor to another partof the screen. I doube that the macro program will be able totrack that,... a macro program relys on thngs on screen to be in the same place all the time,...start moving things and watch what happens....AKA th eundock requestor or "ACCEPT UNDOCK",...now THAT would be good! -=+>xXx<+=-
Nepech Al'akir Amarr The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.06.14 01:49:00 - [65] Originally by: PJRid**** I GO TIT,..I GOT IT,...CCP,..I GOT TH EANSWER TO THE WHOLE DELEMA!!!!! i donwloaded one of the free programs and looked it,..too easy! al lthat CCP has to do is evertime that there is an undoc request,...move the requestor to another partof the screen. I doube that the macro program will be able totrack that,... a macro program relys on thngs on screen to be in the same place all the time,...start moving things and watch what happens....AKA th eundock requestor or "ACCEPT UNDOCK",...now THAT would be good! -=+>xXx<+=- Did you just admit to macroing?? Hope this is 7/10 troll
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.14 06:14:00 - [66] NO!,..i just admitted to finding an solution to the problem of macroing,..go read the post again,..thru my fat figers hitting the wrong keys,..>grin< I did thought download a macro program,..and looked it it briefely to see how it worked. All CCP has to do is put a requestor on the undock,..something like "REALLY UNDOCK", And have it float on the screen at randome points so that the macro cant predict where its going to be. See the macro has to have certain things on the screen at predictable co-ordinats for the program to "push the button",..thats all its doing is immatating the mouse movements of a human, it tracks the movements and records them, then plays them back at any given time. If something on the screen is out of place then it screws up the macro. If you were to use a floating undock requestor,...then the macro would not be able to predict where the requestor is going to be for the undock,...and the macro stays in station. That was simple,... So simple even an ICELANDER can do it,.... sorry for the rip-off Geico -=+>xXx<+=-
chromez0r Gallente Nos Deficio	Posted - 2009.06.14 06:47:00 - [67] Originally by: PJRid**** NO!,..i just admitted to finding an solution to the problem of macroing,..go read the post again,..thru my fat figers hitting the wrong keys,..>grin< I did thought download a macro program,..and looked it it briefely to see how it worked. All CCP has to do is put a requestor on the undock,..something like "REALLY UNDOCK", And have it float on the screen at randome points so that the macro cant predict where its going to be. See the macro has to have certain things on the screen at predictable co-ordinats for the program to "push the button",..thats all its doing is immatating the mouse movements of a human, it tracks the movements and records them, then plays them back at any given time. If something on the screen is out of place then it screws up the macro. If you were to use a floating undock requestor,...then the macro would not be able to predict where the requestor is going to be for the undock,...and the macro stays in station. That was simple,... So simple even an ICELANDER can do it,.... sorry for the rip-off Geico -=+>xXx<+=- wouldnt work as any "are you sure" etc windows that pop up, you dont have to click with the mouse you can use the keyboard for :) aka: if its a yes / no just hitting enter will hit yes pressing across then enter will hit no.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.14 07:21:00 - [68] Originally by: PJRid** Originally by:** CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Shinning,...we got your attention,.....OH heres a question for you,...with you saying that,.."Pew-Pew" i take it that you dont care if macros are in game,...even though macroing is in direct violation of the EULA. Why dont you give some kind of tool that we can use with out loosing a ship or standings. I posted my thougths on thsi matter in the beginning of this post. warn the macro one time wait 20 minutes for them to respond then take them,..make the took so that concord will not respond. Heres the deal. if they are macroing,..that means that they will not be at the keys. If they are, then they should be able to ketch the notice on there screen and espond to it. if they dont respond, then it gives the hunter legal rites to take there ship with out concord interaction. End of macro,...end of exploit. Teh only way that i can see if this becomes an exploit is if people start using this to ganp people,...so in the programming code,...make it so that it can only be used with express prior atority from CCP,..the GMs or concord,...as to "record" all there actions so tha tif there is a mistaken friendly fire insodent, it will be in record and there ship be reimbursed. Look ,...CCP,......something has to be done about this,....its tuff enuf playing this game with out the macros.,..and i dont want to go out and screw up my standing popping some stinking macros jsut so that i can mine in piece. -=+>xXx<+=- And you think that CCP can make exploit proof a system that allow players to gank people in high sec without consequences? Even spamming "are you a macro? Solve this captcha." Endlessly will disrupt the others players activities in a serious way. I see perfectly people spamming that at a mission runner trying to get him killed in a mission, at a war target to delay/block his weapon and tank activation and so on. Oh sure, the people doing that will get a warning and maybe some day of ban, but that will not stop them from using alts to do that. We know perfectly the EVE players, give them a way to kill a target with impunity and they will find the way to use it outside of the task it was developed for.
BuIIseye Amarr Pax Amarria Corp	Posted - 2009.06.14 07:34:00 - [69] Originally by: PJRid**** NO!,..i just admitted to finding an solution to the problem of macroing,..go read the post again,..thru my fat figers hitting the wrong keys,..>grin< I did thought download a macro program,..and looked it it briefely to see how it worked. All CCP has to do is put a requestor on the undock,..something like "REALLY UNDOCK", And have it float on the screen at randome points so that the macro cant predict where its going to be. See the macro has to have certain things on the screen at predictable co-ordinats for the program to "push the button",..thats all its doing is immatating the mouse movements of a human, it tracks the movements and records them, then plays them back at any given time. If something on the screen is out of place then it screws up the macro. If you were to use a floating undock requestor,...then the macro would not be able to predict where the requestor is going to be for the undock,...and the macro stays in station. That was simple,... So simple even an ICELANDER can do it,.... sorry for the rip-off Geico -=+>xXx<+=- I don't think you thought that one thru too much. Apart from it being really annoying to the rest of us, it is also an ineffective way to counter macro's. Besides macro-miners and isk farmers are present in any mmo, and no matter what you do they will still find a way around it. And then when you take into account the pro's (they "pay" for their subscription, they keep low ends and isotopes price down) and con's (they spam and sell isk, you need a huge GM team to overwatch supposed macroers if you want to do it effectively) of the big picture, then its hardly worth CCP's time. Besides, banning isk buyers is so much simpler and effective.
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc. Exxxotic	Posted - 2009.06.14 08:27:00 - [70] although i dont activly support it, ice mining seems to have been invented for macros, i mean seriously what 20 mins inbetween cargo dumps.. and what do you do in that time, stare at the same near unpoppable ice roid. 1. not many real people can live with it! 2. my allaince runs ALOT of towers, it would make us wallet cry if the ice did peak!
Chimay Caldari Next Era Dawn	Posted - 2009.06.14 11:41:00 - [71] Some people require to be ôThe best of the bestö But want to be lazy as possible. So they justify using software against the rules because they donÆt have ôtimeö to earn whatever ship/items. Without that macro they wouldnÆt be enticed to stay because it would actually mean they would have to earn it correctly. Now the ratio of people like that, I couldnÆt tell you. But you have to admit there are people like that. Thus that ratio is great enough to justify allowing them to continue for their subscription. To take a look furtherà Pick any system thatÆs a dead end on your map, you will find 50+ RMT hauling bots or possibly people controlling a bunch at once for RTM. There are plenty of spots they exist. The same ones have been there for the past year, or more. With the track record of what they do, how often they play and just by looking at the name itÆs apparent their RMT. Regardless that you reported any player like that a year ago they still exist. My theory, CCP doesnÆt want to loose the subscription fee they provide, on top of the lazy people that purchase from RMT. ItÆs a loose/loose situation for CCP thus they ignore it. Like any MMO they will happily advertise they banned X accounts for such activities but they only do a small percentage, and even so they know they will come right back and get started again and leave them alone for several years in that spot. ItÆs a sad reality but I canÆt justify the lack of action or support any other way. Only way I can justify it with out getting disgusted and leave.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.14 11:56:00 - [72] Originally by: Tzar'rim How would it be different from a corp of miners with active pilots that came into 'your' belt and started to mine 'your' roids? there is like 3 of them, obvious macro!!!! </sarcasm off>
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.14 12:09:00 - [73] Originally by: Nepech Al'akir Originally by: PJRid**** I GO TIT,..I GOT IT,...CCP,..I GOT TH EANSWER TO THE WHOLE DELEMA!!!!! i donwloaded one of the free programs and looked it,..too easy! al lthat CCP has to do is evertime that there is an undoc request,...move the requestor to another partof the screen. I doube that the macro program will be able totrack that,... a macro program relys on thngs on screen to be in the same place all the time,...start moving things and watch what happens....AKA th eundock requestor or "ACCEPT UNDOCK",...now THAT would be good! -=+>xXx<+=- Did you just admit to macroing?? Hope this is 7/10 troll a macro program, and a macro program that works with eve are two rather different things. although some of the stuff I have read about macros suggest that you solution would do nothing as the good macros would be able to get around that easily.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.14 12:11:00 - [74] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Yeh sure. There are also 10x more game mechanics stopping you from engaging macros including: concord, buffed concord, yet again buffed concord, empire wars nerf, corp hopping, alliance hopping, blocking alliances from wardecs, noob corps, more noob corps, logoffski etc. Everything ingame, everything for macros to abuse. And petition is worthless. Per one macro banned you have 10 new in its place: all payed by the isk "caught" one managed to get. increased sec hits, and concord boost in the same patch
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.14 12:44:00 - [75] You admitted to using a macro program, congrats. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.14 12:53:00 - [76] I see perfectly people spamming that at a mission runner trying to get him killed in a mission, at a war target to delay/block his weapon and tank activation and so on. Oh sure, the people doing that will get a warning and maybe some day of ban, but that will not stop them from using alts to do that. We know perfectly the EVE players, give them a way to kill a target with impunity and they will find the way to use it outside of the task it was developed for. I whole hearted agree with you my friend, give these players an edge to use, a target to shoot and impunity, and tey will use it, that is why there needs to be sa***ards built into it.
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.14 12:55:00 - [77] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 14/06/2009 12:55:31 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton a macro program, and a macro program that works with eve are two rather different things. although some of the stuff I have read about macros suggest that you solution would do nothing as the good macros would be able to get around that easily. Wont give the name of macro program (actually i dont remember it, would have to google around) but saw how it works on youtube. This was actually NPCing macro and... its fail-proof. You can select: - if you want to salvage - if you want to pick up loot (and what loot, you can decide to pick up faction loot only) - if you want to kill dread guristas/officer spawns 1st - if you want to cloak as soon as local jumps - if you want to log off as soon as local jumps - target priority etc. Pretty much if you REALLY wanted to you could write "fleet PVP macro" based of this NPCing macro/bot (oyea thats bot not macro already). I saw only NPCing one at work but i believe mission running one is similiar and mining one is dumbed down. Anyways even putting random "confirm undock" button will not do anything: its easiest possible thing to evade/put into macro. The most obvious solution for CCP would be actually find those macro programs (google 4tw?) and reverse-engineer em so they can block their function from eve-side.
Shintai Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io	Posted - 2009.06.14 13:20:00 - [78] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Will you compensate us for the time? I dont mind making a petition about some clever macro etc. However its like ****ing on me to say that I have to make a petition with 250 names on it. Why dont CCP get the GMs to quickly visit all empire ice systems and other known places for macros? It would fix alot fo macroing and make alot of people happy.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2009.06.14 13:46:00 - [79] I wonder... For a while ago I tried out WoW, and they had two things added to their game I really enjoyed: 1. A small watch program thats installed with the game, which all the time are guarding that no other programs - like macro programs - are interfering with the game client. 2. Right click on a name in chat, select "report spam" as a report function for spammers. Like Jita gold spammers for us. The question is: is this hard to add for EVE too? Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.15 02:06:00 - [80] Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker I wonder... For a while ago I tried out WoW, and they had two things added to their game I really enjoyed: 1. A small watch program thats installed with the game, which all the time are guarding that no other programs - like macro programs - are interfering with the game client. 2. Right click on a name in chat, select "report spam" as a report function for spammers. Like Jita gold spammers for us. The question is: is this hard to add for EVE too? >mr Starwalker, i wrote all this before i went back and looked at your complete post,...please excuse my rambeling, the the sediments are still the same< OH i forget the name of that game that had that in it, it was a smal program that ran in the background, had no interface and watched for all the macro programs that were currently available,...if they run in the machine, it would lock the machine down adn it could not be used at all. It was pretty slick, worked well too. For sure it put an end to the macros in that game and for the life of me i cant remember the name of that game. Ive done programming not as a living but enuf to know what im talking about,...there are several options to CCP and the programmers to deal with this problem, either in coding to eliminate the macros totally or to leave it up the the residence of that system do deal with them in game. Wether CCP will do it or not is a big question. I feel that eliminating the macros out of the game wold only cut into there profits for the game, but,..on the other hand eliminating the game and makign it a bitmore fair for the "REAL" players in the game would only make it a bitmore attractive to other players that are looking toswitch from WOW to EVE. myself , i have never played other MMORPGs, i have several friends that do play WOW, from what ive been told, there are ways to macro WOW for making money in there also,..how,...i have not the clue, but i wold think it simular to EVE in the mechanics to the macro. Building an anti-macro program would be easy, very do-able with in the confines of eve, wether CCP will do it or not is something yet to be seen.
Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity	Posted - 2009.06.15 06:27:00 - [81] You can say what ever you like but under this climate CCP will do nothing about isk farmers. What do isk farmers do buy GTC's will there isk who buys the GTC's real players do. As long as CCP is making USD out of it it'll never change. The big difference between EVE and WOW is the later has a 10 fold subscription base paying the same amount per month. WOW can afford not to allow bots and macro's.
brahiem Flying While Intoxicated EvE Consortium	Posted - 2009.06.15 06:49:00 - [82] Edited by: brahiem on 15/06/2009 06:50:36 Posting in a PJRid**** thread! how is that threat of charging me for losses in a war that was none of my fault going? I've dealt with carebears PJ, and you truly are the biggest of them all. complaining about macros on the forum now though? LOL worthy :edit: also please catch the banhammer :)
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2009.06.15 06:55:00 - [83] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Under what stone did you come from? .. You think petitioning helps anything at macro ratters? there thousands of them to day.. every single petition made doesnt do anything. The best thing is that your petition gets closed straight away.. thanks for putting up the petition. well look in to it.. so giving more info is not possible. CCP truly sucks bigtime vs macro players in general.
Admiral Burke Perkone	Posted - 2009.06.15 07:45:00 - [84] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! \ That is absolute bull****. Once I suspected a guy was macro mining in an ice belt in high sec, and I petitioned him. The petition did nothing. I went on to suicide gank his exhumer, and I then knew he truly was a macro. He was warping to and from the space spot in his pod for the rest of the evening. Again, the petition did nothing. CCP simply does not care. macros and farmers run rampant, and CCP is too slow and unwilling to put for the effort to adapt.
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2009.06.15 08:42:00 - [85] Originally by: Armoured C and how do you prove that they are using macro's that is the only problem subject has already been and gone if you suspect a macro petition it and CCP will look into it kthankbye This is no problem at all, its so ***ing easy to find macro ratters. THey all act the same way as they all use the same type of macro. ill give you a couple of hints. 1st, They are online 23/7 all the time. in 1 system. ( most of em ) Second, they all act the same way.. When you get in a system with a macro ratter as soon it notice you in local it will warp to his safe. IT is always be allinged to its safe minimizing the risk to get caught. after its on his safe it cloaks up. Assoon as you jump out or log in the system it will decloak and start ratting again. this part is a bit triky there several security systems build in the macro app. as it has build in security system. But most of the macro ratters keep using the same behaviour. it will warp and cloak when you are in the system. when you log of they de-cloak and continue ratting. over and over again. Someone who is activly playing. will fall for that trick mabe once or twice but the 3th time they would just sit cloaked untill your gone. Thats where the security can be in place. some people have them set to 3 warnings and then they will either stay cloaked or just plainly log off. That goes for any error if the macro sees something it shouldn`t be doing it will make an error and log the macro off. 3th. the most important one.. Someone who is ratting is doing so to make isk.. right? So if you finaly get a faction spawn or even an officer spawn you will take the fcking loot. Macro ratters however do not. they will leave there cans in space. so when you know there active macro ratters arround pay a visit to the belts and harvest the faction loot. ( They have an option to do so however they can get stuck in the belt or roid ) Some extra indicators are : 1. strange names.. 2. They will have a smart bomb fitted and atleast 1 stab. 3. They fly raven or nighthawk. www.garia.net
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.15 08:58:00 - [86] Edited by: DeepBlue on 15/06/2009 08:58:41 Originally by: Garia666 ...... Some extra indicators are : 1. strange names.. 2. They will have a smart bomb fitted and atleast 1 stab. 3. They fly raven or nighthawk. so, you think those guys here are bots? http://www.eve-razor.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=39903&view=kills&scl_id=1 no, those are mainly farmers with real persons behind... and have exact the behavior you just described. if you really want to catch bots, try the following.. 1. bubble up the first and last belt in system. 2. leave the system 3. come back after 3-4 mins and kill the raven stuck in your bubble :P
Tiny Tove	Posted - 2009.06.15 09:03:00 - [87] The single most obvious and automatically easily detectable trait is 23/7 activity. It's so easy even I can think of it. So far, I've seen no evidence that CCP automatically detect and ban such activity. Even if it is a human, CCP have some sort of duty of care to stop being so irresponsible with their own health. But it's not a human as well they know. I think they just ran the numbers and the accountant said "no". You don't think all those Titans mine and haul themselves do you? if you Ban the macros, you ban the alliances and the Veteran Toys they need to keep people playing. So, no. It'll never end. Hellmar's yacht depends on them.
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2009.06.15 09:08:00 - [88] Originally by: DeepBlue Edited by: DeepBlue on 15/06/2009 08:58:41 Originally by: Garia666 ...... Some extra indicators are : 1. strange names.. 2. They will have a smart bomb fitted and atleast 1 stab. 3. They fly raven or nighthawk. so, you think those guys here are bots? http://www.eve-razor.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=39903&view=kills&scl_id=1 no, those are mainly farmers with real persons behind... and have exact the behavior you just described. if you really want to catch bots, try the following.. 1. bubble up the first and last belt in system. 2. leave the system 3. come back after 3-4 mins and kill the raven stuck in your bubble :P This discussion was about how to know when its an macro ratter. and what you point out are extra indicators. Its the behavior most of the times they go combined with these indicators. A strange name alone is not enough. The discussion is not about how to catch one..
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.15 09:11:00 - [89] Originally by: Garia666 This discussion was about how to know when its an macro ratter. and what you point out are extra indicators. Its the behavior most of the times they go combined with these indicators. A strange name alone is not enough. The discussion is not about how to catch one.. there is NO way to be 100% sure. but a good indicator would be: - scramble the guy, if he didnt talk to you after 5 mins or tried to fire at you - chances are high that this is a bot.
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.15 11:23:00 - [90] Originally by: DeepBlue Originally by: Garia666 This discussion was about how to know when its an macro ratter. and what you point out are extra indicators. Its the behavior most of the times they go combined with these indicators. A strange name alone is not enough. The discussion is not about how to catch one.. there is NO way to be 100% sure. but a good indicator would be: - scramble the guy, if he didnt talk to you after 5 mins or tried to fire at you - chances are high that this is a bot. good idea,..but you cant do that in HISEC without torking off concord,...atleast i dont think! ummm,...can it be done? -=+>xXx<+=-
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.15 11:28:00 - [91] Originally by: PJRid** Originally by:** DeepBlue Originally by: Garia666 This discussion was about how to know when its an macro ratter. and what you point out are extra indicators. Its the behavior most of the times they go combined with these indicators. A strange name alone is not enough. The discussion is not about how to catch one.. there is NO way to be 100% sure. but a good indicator would be: - scramble the guy, if he didnt talk to you after 5 mins or tried to fire at you - chances are high that this is a bot. good idea,..but you cant do that in HISEC without torking off concord,...atleast i dont think! ummm,...can it be done? -=+>xXx<+=- warp scramming will get you concorded.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.15 11:31:00 - [92] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: PJRid** Originally by:** DeepBlue Originally by: Garia666 This discussion was about how to know when its an macro ratter. and what you point out are extra indicators. Its the behavior most of the times they go combined with these indicators. A strange name alone is not enough. The discussion is not about how to catch one.. there is NO way to be 100% sure. but a good indicator would be: - scramble the guy, if he didnt talk to you after 5 mins or tried to fire at you - chances are high that this is a bot. good idea,..but you cant do that in HISEC without torking off concord,...atleast i dont think! ummm,...can it be done? -=+>xXx<+=- warp scramming will get you fluffy bunnies. But don't tell him... ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.06.15 11:43:00 - [93] Cheap-fit Armageddon with smartbombs: 200M ISK 6 Hulks clustered around a GSC: 600M ISK If you really want to get rid of macro miners, this is the way to do it :) Note that CONCORD will not attack you while you're in a pod, so you can safely travel around to find a system at which someone accidentally leaves a suitably-fit Armageddon lying around. Torpedo raven will work just as well. Just remember to do it properly.
Alex Raptos Caldari Phoenix Rising.	Posted - 2009.06.15 12:05:00 - [94] Originally by: Mara Rinn Cheap-fit Armageddon with smartbombs: 200M ISK 6 Hulks clustered around a GSC: 600M ISK If you really want to get rid of macro miners, this is the way to do it :) Note that CONCORD will not attack you while you're in a pod, so you can safely travel around to find a system at which someone accidentally leaves a suitably-fit Armageddon lying around. Torpedo raven will work just as well. Just remember to do it properly. Cheap fit armageddon with smartbombs is closer to 90m, and less than that after insurance pays out (Prolly nearer 40m)
Arcelian Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.15 12:07:00 - [95] A lot of these "macros" are actually chinese isk farmers. In the Stain region in an adjacent system to where I reside there is always, and yes I mean ALWAYS one guy farming the rats. He doesn't speak very good english, and neither do his three alts. Is he breaking any rules? Nope. Does he sell isk? Most definitely. So...ban all the asian players?
Sir Muffoon Backdoor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.06.15 12:42:00 - [96] Originally by: Alex Raptos Originally by: Mara Rinn Cheap-fit Armageddon with smartbombs: 200M ISK 6 Hulks clustered around a GSC: 600M ISK If you really want to get rid of macro miners, this is the way to do it :) Note that CONCORD will not attack you while you're in a pod, so you can safely travel around to find a system at which someone accidentally leaves a suitably-fit Armageddon lying around. Torpedo raven will work just as well. Just remember to do it properly. Cheap fit armageddon with smartbombs is closer to 90m, and less than that after insurance pays out (Prolly nearer 40m) Yeah but you'd need 3 or so to take out a Hulk.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.15 13:16:00 - [97] Originally by: Sir Muffoon Originally by: Alex Raptos Originally by: Mara Rinn Cheap-fit Armageddon with smartbombs: 200M ISK 6 Hulks clustered around a GSC: 600M ISK If you really want to get rid of macro miners, this is the way to do it :) Note that CONCORD will not attack you while you're in a pod, so you can safely travel around to find a system at which someone accidentally leaves a suitably-fit Armageddon lying around. Torpedo raven will work just as well. Just remember to do it properly. Cheap fit armageddon with smartbombs is closer to 90m, and less than that after insurance pays out (Prolly nearer 40m) Yeah but you'd need 3 or so to take out a Hulk. Two or three thorax. Much cheaper anyway. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.15 13:54:00 - [98] Originally by: Garia666 3th. the most important one.. Someone who is ratting is doing so to make isk.. right? So if you finaly get a faction spawn or even an officer spawn you will take the f*cking loot. Macro ratters however do not. they will leave there cans in space. so when you know there active macro ratters arround pay a visit to the belts and harvest the faction loot. ( They have an option to do so however they can get stuck in the belt or roid ) The bot i saw on youtube does pick up loot (and you can decide what loot to pick up and from what wrecks like officer/commander spawn only).
Sir Muffoon Backdoor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:57:00 - [99] Originally by: Blane Xero Two or three thorax. Much cheaper anyway. That doesn't have the same area of death effect though.
Belmarduk Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2009.06.15 16:20:00 - [100] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Sorry.. but *****s ! As great as Eve is and as well I personally think CCP is running this game I am NOT satisfied how CCP deals with the Macro Situation... A petition about macros is futile - I have petitioned often enough and have given up because nothing is done anyway..... It took nearly a YEAR for a group of verified macrominers to be banned with numerous people petitioning them... It is no longer possible (or very difficult to) take care of the problem in highsec since the gank-nerf 2008... In 2006 CCP thought with removing ice-belts from 0,7+ would solve the problem - ***s CCP do something about the macros and RMT before this game goes the way Ultima Online did....** Greetings Belmarduk
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Can't Decide Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:00:00 - [101] Edited by: Ak''athra J''ador on 15/06/2009 17:00:39 Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! nobody attack this man. this is his professional obligation. he had to make this post. he is actually not that stupid. I mean its simply not possible that someone who is involved in creating the masterpiece that is eve would ever consider the above idea. if you however actually considered the above abomination...then please, if you love eve as much as i do, take your head and ram it through the nearest wall. and fear not, as they say, he who is wiser, will stop fighting. again...only if you actually considered it.
Carnelian X	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:04:00 - [102] 2 Statements for you: 1) CCP make a lot of money from isk sellers - go check out the timecod bizaree and see what sort of names are buying the gtcs at 850 mill a pop 2) Petitioned macro players are rarely banned or investigated Ill leave you to draw up a bizarre conspiracy theory
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:11:00 - [103] Originally by: Belmarduk Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Sorry.. but *****s ! As great as Eve is and as well I personally think CCP is running this game I am NOT satisfied how CCP deals with the Macro Situation... A petition about macros is futile - I have petitioned often enough and have given up because nothing is done anyway..... It took nearly a YEAR for a group of verified macrominers to be banned with numerous people petitioning them... It is no longer possible (or very difficult to) take care of the problem in highsec since the gank-nerf 2008... In 2006 CCP thought with removing ice-belts from 0,7+ would solve the problem - ***s CCP do something about the macros and RMT before this game goes the way Ultima Online did....** Greetings Belmarduk You don't get it. There are 2 reasons why they aren't immediatly banned as you wish: 1) your definitive proof is not so definitive when checked; 2) when they are really macro users/isk sellers CCP keep them under observation to get the whole web of contacts, buyers included. Getting the isk buyers and a whole group of isk sellers is way more efficient that getting 1 macro user today, one tomorrow.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:16:00 - [104] Originally by: Mara Rinn Cheap-fit Armageddon with smartbombs: 200M ISK 140M on fittings is "cheap"?
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Can't Decide Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:19:00 - [105] Edited by: Ak''athra J''ador on 15/06/2009 17:20:35 Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Belmarduk Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Sorry.. but *****s ! As great as Eve is and as well I personally think CCP is running this game I am NOT satisfied how CCP deals with the Macro Situation... A petition about macros is futile - I have petitioned often enough and have given up because nothing is done anyway..... It took nearly a YEAR for a group of verified macrominers to be banned with numerous people petitioning them... It is no longer possible (or very difficult to) take care of the problem in highsec since the gank-nerf 2008... In 2006 CCP thought with removing ice-belts from 0,7+ would solve the problem - ***s CCP do something about the macros and RMT before this game goes the way Ultima Online did....** Greetings Belmarduk You don't get it. There are 2 reasons why they aren't immediatly banned as you wish: 1) your definitive proof is not so definitive when checked; 2) when they are really macro users/isk sellers CCP keep them under observation to get the whole web of contacts, buyers included. Getting the isk buyers and a whole group of isk sellers is way more efficient that getting 1 macro user today, one tomorrow. yet in all this years it didn't do squat...so don't be stupid. did you see the logs chribba posted? people are losing faith, we need a warden to protect us!
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:20:00 - [106] Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador yet in all this years it didn't do squat...so don't be stupid. did you see the logs chribba posted? people are losing faith, we need a warden to protect us! Keep that ****ing spyware off my computer.
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Can't Decide Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:22:00 - [107] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador yet in all this years it didn't do squat...so don't be stupid. did you see the logs chribba posted? people are losing faith, we need a warden to protect us! Keep that ****ing spyware off my computer. why? got something to hide?
Cygg Minmatar Aegis Dynamics Unitary Enterprises	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:02:00 - [108] Macro Miners are easy to spot. Most miners will warp in and start mining and stay in the general area until full. Macros on the other hand Warp in at the end of the belt and start moving up and down while following the belt. Easy fix for it is to allow pilots to jam the miners without getting Concord ****ed. Just allow the use of jammers in High-Sec without Concord coming in. Not like we are hurting them, just not allowing them to target a rock is all.
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:08:00 - [109] Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Suicide ganking. All other in game recourses are innefective. Not that Suiciding Macro'ers is efficient in terms of isk or time spent. What would make me feel better is it you were locked in a room with a PC and told your continued employment was dependant on how many Macrominers you could ban in an hour, then made to monitor newbie chat for an hour for every legitimate player you banned.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:09:00 - [110] Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador Edited by: Ak''athra J''ador on 15/06/2009 17:28:44 Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador yet in all this years it didn't do squat...so don't be stupid. did you see the logs chribba posted? people are losing faith, we need a warden to protect us! Keep that ****ing spyware off my computer. why? got something to hide? besides calling it spyware is kinda pushing it. and we wouldnt need something as complicated as warden...something far more simpler would do the job as well. then again it would take resources to develop... If you knew the exact methods warden takes of "investigating" you would be less enthusiastic to install something with it. Protip; Scanning process lists is just the start.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:24:00 - [111] I mine ice in a Hulk. It takes me 29 minutes for 4 cycles and 12 chunks of ice. Slow, but fine enough for me. I tend to use the same bookmark when warping to the belt. Other than not mining 23/7, how does one NOT look like a macro miner when mining ice? Ice mining was part of the reason I trained the trade skills; one has a lot of time to work the market while ice mining. I also do a lot of EVE-Central export uploads.
Descrambled	Posted - 2009.06.15 18:37:00 - [112] Do the 'ratter' macro bots also detect if a friendly is in the belt and then warp away? just wondering if the ratters I see where I normally go are bots as well.... How do they handle spotting a hostile in nullsec i wonder. They safespot ya too? sounds like these macros are widespread
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.15 19:25:00 - [113] Originally by: Descrambled Do the 'ratter' macro bots also detect if a friendly is in the belt and then warp away? just wondering if the ratters I see where I normally go are bots as well.... How do they handle spotting a hostile in nullsec i wonder. They safespot ya too? sounds like these macros are widespread they can do much more like this... cause they behave like players, its pretty hard to detect them :( from a bot site: - Warps to safe spot on ôHostile Spottedö and ôLow Tankö events - Optional use of Microwarpdrive - Drones control - Friendly pilot detection. ****bot won't ks (kill steal) friendly pilots ratting in a belt before you arrive ________________________________________________
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.06.15 20:24:00 - [114] Originally by: Descrambled Do the 'ratter' macro bots also detect if a friendly is in the belt and then warp away? just wondering if the ratters I see where I normally go are bots as well.... How do they handle spotting a hostile in nullsec i wonder. They safespot ya too? sounds like these macros are widespread They function using standings, using the standings icons. i.e. a blue wont bother them. They are fairly common in some areas. The problem is really that Local allows them to be almost invincible. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
Vidi Angelus Caldari Crystal Dynamics Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.06.15 20:32:00 - [115] Originally by: Doctor Penguin What CCP should do is go over all the macro programs people use to macro in EVE, and then place safeguards in place so that all the programs are caught. It's precisely what RuneScape have been doing, and macroing there has gone from being the plague of the game to almost totally gone. That, and nerf noob corps. If only it was that simple. Checks like these can be beaten with a simple virtual computer, which most macro accounts will be using regardless. All you'll manage is to stop the occasional script kiddy, but mainly **** of people like me who use macro's for other programs & Uses. Not to mention hardware macros. There is no Computer substitute for a human.
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Can't Decide Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.06.15 20:53:00 - [116] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador Edited by: Ak''athra J''ador on 15/06/2009 17:28:44 Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador yet in all this years it didn't do squat...so don't be stupid. did you see the logs chribba posted? people are losing faith, we need a warden to protect us! Keep that ****ing spyware off my computer. why? got something to hide? besides calling it spyware is kinda pushing it. and we wouldnt need something as complicated as warden...something far more simpler would do the job as well. then again it would take resources to develop... If you knew the exact methods warden takes of "investigating" you would be less enthusiastic to install something with it. Protip; Scanning process lists is just the start. well I understand warden quite well actually. done a lot of botting in wow... by itself it should not be legal...but you sign the eula before playing the game. and the eula states what the game can check. then again, its debatable weather the eula is binding or not... personally it is something i would gladly do. let them check... but that is me, the question is, what does the community feel? would you allow CCP to go through your ram to check for third party applications (bots)? is that the price you would pay to get rid of bots? i would...would you?
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.06.15 20:58:00 - [117] I wouldn't.
Ascuris Wurm	Posted - 2009.06.15 21:00:00 - [118] To prevent corp hopping by macro miners, maybe they could re-think the whole corp changing thing. What if everyone, regardless of roles has to wait until the next downtime until a corp switch is effective. So you click 'Confirm' and when you log in after the next downtime, you are logging in already in your new corp. Then you have to wait 2 downtimes to switch again. And if you switch on the very next one you can, it goes up to 4 downtimes until the next switch. For every possible downtime you could switch and don't, the waiting period also is reduced by 1. Example Day 1 - I confirm the switch from corp A to corp B Day 2 - I log in and find myself in corp B Day 3 - I hate corp B and confirm the switch to corp C Day 4 - Still in corp B Day 5 - I log in and find myself in Corp C Day 6 - I hate corp C and confirm the switch to corp D Day 7 - Still in corp C Day 8 - Still in corp C Day 9 - Still in corp C Day 10 - I log in and find myself in Corp D You can see how that would help wardeccing macro corps, right? There would actually be time to target them before they switch again. The more they try to abuse it, the worse it gets for them. Training up hulk pilots takes time after all, so they can't just create new chars. This was just off the top of my head and not thought through real deeply... flaws? Would any of you have any problem with waiting periods for corp switching? Wurm
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.15 21:14:00 - [119] Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador well I understand warden quite well actually. done a lot of botting in wow... by itself it should not be legal...but you sign the eula before playing the game. and the eula states what the game can check. then again, its debatable weather the eula is binding or not... personally it is something i would gladly do. let them check... but that is me, the question is, what does the community feel? would you allow CCP to go through your ram to check for third party applications (bots)? is that the price you would pay to get rid of bots? i would...would you? No, I would not. A simple Process scanner/Punkbuster esque "moniter check" thing i have no problem with; Warden on the other hand can quite simply go to hell. I was once inconvenienced when Warden a while back, and by inconvenienced it was one of those things you sit and look at and go "Who the **** was stupid enough to think that was a good idea?" especially when it costs you hours of your time to repair the "Damages". I'm not fond of installing programs on my computer that someone halfway across the world can connect to and then force MORE CRAP down my bandwidth pipes in the name of an "update" without my express permission. Also, warden crashing mid memory-scan corrupting downloads and open programs; Priceless.
Belmarduk Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2009.06.15 23:13:00 - [120] After writing a ****ing long post and the bloody forum unlogging me - short version: CCP do something before it hurts the game. Period
Dr Silkworth	Posted - 2009.06.15 23:19:00 - [121] Edited by: Dr Silkworth on 15/06/2009 23:23:14 Macros could be a nice niche for the PVPer that has enough conscience to not want to be indiscriminate in their targets. It seems CCP doesn't want indiscriminate hulk ganking but we got the nod in this thread to gank the macroers. Perhaps we just take the mods advice and all the petitioners laments and put them together. When I put it together, it says target but like in real life, if you want to be a vigilante the cops are going to frown on it. If it really bothers you, make an ncp gank alt and join in on the fun and maybe feel good about yourself for doing a public service. Don't wait for CCP to do everything for you. These macroers don't bother me, I even say hello when I pass them :) Of course they don't answer back but I get a chuckle just the same. These advanced ratting macros are new to me, I just see a couple of veldspar guys and have mined amongst the ice guys. The veldspar guys can't keep up with me with a a hauler and the ice guys don't bother me at all cause of the infinite supply. Ain't no money in it though even with the recent price run up. These have to be bored POS owners. Someday I'll meet the real toon and might even do business. I have a bit of a Bi%^&ch though. I had to mine veld in my Mack for a while after I lost a Hulk. Losing it was my fault for answering the phone and going afk. Tha wasn't my problenm. Suddenly everyone thought I was a bot just cause I was riding in a Mack. It was almost like racism or something. Yeah I leave my miner alt auto chat off but its my client. I pay for it and I'll manage my personal settings how I please. I also use that alt for dual box support for missions and don't need interruptions. In fact when I'm dual boxing i should really shut both of them off. Really wish anybody that has the Mack prejudice and auto-chat prejudice not let that be their final criteria for bot activity. Not answering the phone is not a crime , despite what my EX GF and my boss says and neither is flying a Mack. :) Just leave me alone to fly innernet spacships and kill red crosses and rocks please.
IVeige	Posted - 2009.06.16 03:50:00 - [122] How hard is it to allow players to war dec npc corps ? Not talking about really new npc corp use for new players... But the others ones, you know where all macro miners/bots end up. Can any CCP guys tell us why it hasnt been done yet ? Whats the reasons ?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.16 06:15:00 - [123] Originally by: IVeige How hard is it to allow players to war dec npc corps ? Not talking about really new npc corp use for new players... But the others ones, you know where all macro miners/bots end up. Can any CCP guys tell us why it hasnt been done yet ? Whats the reasons ? 1) Because it would be used to attack the new players. 2) Because other players have the right to minimize risk and refuse wardecs retreating to NPC corps.
RedLion Caldari State Constructions	Posted - 2009.06.16 08:05:00 - [124] a bad skilled player can use more than 30 mins to fill a hulk. besides i often rejects any convos if i'm busy - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Demos Mast Gallente Paradigm Council	Posted - 2009.06.16 08:13:00 - [125] I personally think you SHOULD use macros/bots. I just got done killing around 30 botting haulers with some corpmates. Was great fun. By all means provide more easy targets :D
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2009.06.16 09:13:00 - [126] Originally by: Belmarduk Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Sorry.. but *****s ! As great as Eve is and as well I personally think CCP is running this game I am NOT satisfied how CCP deals with the Macro Situation... A petition about macros is futile - I have petitioned often enough and have given up because nothing is done anyway..... It took nearly a YEAR for a group of verified macrominers to be banned with numerous people petitioning them... It is no longer possible (or very difficult to) take care of the problem in highsec since the gank-nerf 2008... In 2006 CCP thought with removing ice-belts from 0,7+ would solve the problem - ***s CCP do something about the macros and RMT before this game goes the way Ultima Online did....** Greetings Belmarduk You have any proof of that? As you can read in a previous post i will reward 100mill to the first guy proofing that even 1 macro ratter was banned.. cause i have never ever seen a post or successfull ban. And 1 bill to a GM or DEV giving me this proof.. it can be done descretely aswell..
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.16 12:38:00 - [127] ya know that would work,...and see if they yell about it too,... -=+>xXx<+=- OH and by the way Loved th e"fluffy bunny comment a while back,...funny as all get out.. Originally by: Cygg Macro Miners are easy to spot. Most miners will warp in and start mining and stay in the general area until full. Macros on the other hand Warp in at the end of the belt and start moving up and down while following the belt. Easy fix for it is to allow pilots to jam the miners without getting Concord ****ed. Just allow the use of jammers in High-Sec without Concord coming in. Not like we are hurting them, just not allowing them to target a rock is all.
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.16 12:49:00 - [128] You want proof,..haha thisone is easy.,..... all you got to do is get into a fast ship an dwait till they com eout of th estation,....bump them as the align to the field and keep them bumped till the macro goes out of sync,....it takes some doing bu tit is possable,...the macro will sit at the station just bumping around,...i did one about two weeks ago,...it styed at the station for about,......ummmm three or four days just bumping around till the owner come along and reset it,...funny as allget out,... I bet he was **ed. -=+>xXx<+=- Originally by:** Garia666 Originally by: Belmarduk Originally by: CCP Zymurgist If you truly believe you have found a player who is a macro player you are completely welcome to submit a petition including the persons name, where you saw them, and at what time. If you feel this is not enough there are several in game mechanics that can be employed to make yourself feel better about the situation. Pew Pew! Sorry.. but *****s ! As great as Eve is and as well I personally think CCP is running this game I am NOT satisfied how CCP deals with the Macro Situation... A petition about macros is futile - I have petitioned often enough and have given up because nothing is done anyway..... It took nearly a YEAR for a group of verified macrominers to be banned with numerous people petitioning them... It is no longer possible (or very difficult to) take care of the problem in highsec since the gank-nerf 2008... In 2006 CCP thought with removing ice-belts from 0,7+ would solve the problem - ***s CCP do something about the macros and RMT before this game goes the way Ultima Online did....** Greetings Belmarduk You have any proof of that? As you can read in a previous post i will reward 100mill to the first guy proofing that even 1 macro ratter was banned.. cause i have never ever seen a post or successfull ban. And 1 bill to a GM or DEV giving me this proof.. it can be done descretely aswell..
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.06.16 14:18:00 - [129] Originally by: RedSplat Originally by: Tzar'rim Leaving a corp is an exploit? Are you sure on that, do you have factual proof (I'm honestly interested, not being sarcastic). AFAIK some DEV stated a while ago that leaving a corp for whatever reason is a valid tactic. Continuous 'Corp Hopping' to avoid wardecs is classed as an exploit. If I remember correct it's only exploit if you close down the previous corp. By the same token stalking one specific player with wardec could be considered harassment. Not saying it's right or wrong. It's just that as soon as you put any rigid rules in place people find ways around em. It's best to leave it at 'marcos get you banned' and let GM's deal with it on case by case basis. It's a lot harder to outsmart a real person than rules.
brahiem Flying While Intoxicated EvE Consortium	Posted - 2009.06.16 15:16:00 - [130] Quote: all you got to do is get into a fast ship an dwait till they com eout of th estation,....bump them as the align to the field and keep them bumped till the macro goes out of sync,....it takes some doing bu tit is possable,...the macro will sit at the station just bumping around,...i did one about two weeks ago,...it styed at the station for about,......ummmm three or four days just bumping around till the owner come along and reset it,...funny as allget out,... I bet he was ****ed. borderline harrasment
cOrOlaTE	Posted - 2009.06.16 15:17:00 - [131] People who use macros will always exist, always have done, always will do.
Belmarduk Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2009.06.16 17:26:00 - [132] Originally by: cOrOlaTE People who use macros will always exist, always have done, always will do. and because of that we just lay our hands into our laps and do nothing against it?
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.06.16 20:43:00 - [133] Originally by: brahiem Quote: all you got to do is get into a fast ship an dwait till they com eout of th estation,....bump them as the align to the field and keep them bumped till the macro goes out of sync,....it takes some doing bu tit is possable,...the macro will sit at the station just bumping around,...i did one about two weeks ago,...it styed at the station for about,......ummmm three or four days just bumping around till the owner come along and reset it,...funny as allget out,... I bet he was **ed. borderline harrasment Fine line, but bumping people isnt harrasment when it has certain purposes. Macro bowling isnt petitionable. Doing such as a Merc. contract is not an issue. Have a chat with Noir if you have a mind. Originally by:** CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
brahiem Flying While Intoxicated EvE Consortium	Posted - 2009.06.16 21:40:00 - [134] Originally by: RedSplat Originally by: brahiem Quote: all you got to do is get into a fast ship an dwait till they com eout of th estation,....bump them as the align to the field and keep them bumped till the macro goes out of sync,....it takes some doing bu tit is possable,...the macro will sit at the station just bumping around,...i did one about two weeks ago,...it styed at the station for about,......ummmm three or four days just bumping around till the owner come along and reset it,...funny as allget out,... I bet he was ****ed. borderline harrasment Fine line, but bumping people isnt harrasment when it has certain purposes. Macro bowling isnt petitionable. Doing such as a Merc. contract is not an issue. Have a chat with Noir if you have a mind. bumping may not be harassment, but bumping a single person for the sole purpose of disrupting their activities? Not to prevent a warp so you can get a kill, but to prevent a warp for no reason whatsoever
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.17 12:06:00 - [135] i was wondering, adn i would like to have everyones input on this one. If you do run a macro and if you are sitting there at the keys monitoring the macro,...is that stil lconsidered an exploit? Heres the skinny, I was looking for a hauler macro,...that would make things easier for me, im alwahs watching TV while mining and on my second machine i run my hauler back and forth to the station to take the ore back and dump it. Would it be still considered an exploit if i used a macro to run the hauler whil i was there monitoring its activities so i could spend more time with the miner, OH and watching TV,..Star Trek of course! hehe -=+>xXx<+=-
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.06.17 13:08:00 - [136] Well, how can CCP know if you are behind your computer ? Only macros who require human interaction are accepted by CCP (ie : F1-F2-F3-... on one key, etc...). _______ Local is fine, period.
Slave 2739FKZ	Posted - 2009.06.17 13:56:00 - [137] This is what you do to fix macro problem: - make the game hard, seriouslly it's stupid how easy is to use bots for some stuff. - nerf NPC corps: after some weeks every single player will be moved to "old NPC corps" (the oen you end when you quit an human corp), these corps can be wardecced. Then we can really fix the problem without suicideganking. - stop ignoring petitions.
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:09:00 - [138] 1) So make the game more harder to use to players too. Yeah great idea... 2) Yeah so instead, we will have nine thousands of 1-Man Corp ? You seriously think than someone will stay in this "old npc corp" and that they won't have like 30 or 40 wardecs ? A 1-Man Corp and a channel to reproduce SAK (or others) old corp channel, problem solved (for the concerned player, not for you ). 3) Stop thinking that anyone who is petitionned is guilty. _______ Local is fine, period.
PJRiddick	Posted - 2009.06.17 18:14:00 - [139] GMs or CCP,...will you please weigh in on this one,....If you say that running a macro is ok as long as i am monitoring it and on line,..then im gonna set one up to mine, not for the miner but for the hauler,...i often forget about it and leave it in station, Ya know i just might do it anyway,.....Just remember that im always there, close by to see whats going on. -=+>xXx<+=- Im going mining! Later all

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