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Nim Caslo
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Posted - 2004.09.17 17:32:00 -
[61]
Scenario:
Player A is camping a gate and players B and C warp in and engage with cruise missiles while Player D scrambles and webs him. Player A then logs off, gaining the invulnerability before the cruise missiles get there, thus negating all dmg while his ship sits there for a little while while he's logged off.
Suggestion:
Make it so all attacks that have been fired before player a logged continues and hit, doing their dmg on the player's ship. but all attacks made snce he logged do no dmg. This prevents a ship that is already into it's structure to be saved by an invulnerability feature that activates on log-off. I'm sure it's still exploitable somehow, but it makes it pointless to log to save your almost-dead ship.
Another suggestion is that the ship auto-warps and cloaks on disconnect and log off but remains persistant in the world only in a cloacked state until the player re-connects. In the case of PVP, when the player disconnects to save his ship, the ship remains but is scrambled and webbed, but still persistant and vulnerable until the player is either un scrambled or has lost his ship. The pod would then warp away once the shipp is destroyed and cloak until the player logs back on. That's my suggestion on this issue, please, i want feedback :)
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Nim Caslo
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Posted - 2004.09.17 17:32:00 -
[62]
Scenario:
Player A is camping a gate and players B and C warp in and engage with cruise missiles while Player D scrambles and webs him. Player A then logs off, gaining the invulnerability before the cruise missiles get there, thus negating all dmg while his ship sits there for a little while while he's logged off.
Suggestion:
Make it so all attacks that have been fired before player a logged continues and hit, doing their dmg on the player's ship. but all attacks made snce he logged do no dmg. This prevents a ship that is already into it's structure to be saved by an invulnerability feature that activates on log-off. I'm sure it's still exploitable somehow, but it makes it pointless to log to save your almost-dead ship.
Another suggestion is that the ship auto-warps and cloaks on disconnect and log off but remains persistant in the world only in a cloacked state until the player re-connects. In the case of PVP, when the player disconnects to save his ship, the ship remains but is scrambled and webbed, but still persistant and vulnerable until the player is either un scrambled or has lost his ship. The pod would then warp away once the shipp is destroyed and cloak until the player logs back on. That's my suggestion on this issue, please, i want feedback :)
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Arcturius II
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Posted - 2004.09.17 17:51:00 -
[63]
 Cry all you want, CCP listens to the majority, CCP doesn't care about PvPers, they are in the minority, CCP cares about people who would quit the game if they changed things. After all they are a business and they want money, subscription payments.
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Arcturius II
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Posted - 2004.09.17 17:51:00 -
[64]
Cry all you want, CCP listens to the majority, CCP doesn't care about PvPers, they are in the minority, CCP cares about people who would quit the game if they changed things. After all they are a business and they want money, subscription payments.
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Dukath
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Posted - 2004.09.17 19:15:00 -
[65]
The major issue with 'listening to the majority' is this:
There are 5 changes suggested.
Each change has 70% of the players pro and 30% against. Listening to the majority all changes are implemented. But of the 70% who are for change A, only 5% is for all the other changes. Of the 70% is is for change B only 10% is for all other 4 changes.
In effect for each separate change there is a majority, for the combination of all changes you'll only find 5% in favour. So in effect 95 % of the players are unhappy. And all because you 'listened to the majority'.
And this is what is happening to eve. People concentrate on this one little change and demand it be their way because a lot of people agree with it. But that little change combined with another little change makes the game worse for you, but improves it for another majority and so on and so on. And after half a year you are partially responsible for ruining the game.
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Dukath
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Posted - 2004.09.17 19:15:00 -
[66]
The major issue with 'listening to the majority' is this:
There are 5 changes suggested.
Each change has 70% of the players pro and 30% against. Listening to the majority all changes are implemented. But of the 70% who are for change A, only 5% is for all the other changes. Of the 70% is is for change B only 10% is for all other 4 changes.
In effect for each separate change there is a majority, for the combination of all changes you'll only find 5% in favour. So in effect 95 % of the players are unhappy. And all because you 'listened to the majority'.
And this is what is happening to eve. People concentrate on this one little change and demand it be their way because a lot of people agree with it. But that little change combined with another little change makes the game worse for you, but improves it for another majority and so on and so on. And after half a year you are partially responsible for ruining the game.
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tyyryk
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Posted - 2004.09.17 19:54:00 -
[67]
You know, I can remember playing text-based PvP muds for years, back before the internet became this wonderful GUI we take for granted. These logon/logoff tactics are nothing new, players used to run scripts that would spam 'where' to keep an active list of where ppl are in a zone.
If ppl are cheap enough to do this sort of tactic, then they are cheap, and don't deserve the respect that the ppl who stand toe to toe get. It is however, a tactic, albiet a unhonourable one.
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tyyryk
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Posted - 2004.09.17 19:54:00 -
[68]
You know, I can remember playing text-based PvP muds for years, back before the internet became this wonderful GUI we take for granted. These logon/logoff tactics are nothing new, players used to run scripts that would spam 'where' to keep an active list of where ppl are in a zone.
If ppl are cheap enough to do this sort of tactic, then they are cheap, and don't deserve the respect that the ppl who stand toe to toe get. It is however, a tactic, albiet a unhonourable one.
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meowcat
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Posted - 2004.09.17 20:17:00 -
[69]
 Originally by: tyyryk
You know, I can remember playing text-based PvP muds for years, back before the internet became this wonderful GUI we take for granted. These logon/logoff tactics are nothing new, players used to run scripts that would spam 'where' to keep an active list of where ppl are in a zone.
If ppl are cheap enough to do this sort of tactic, then they are cheap, and don't deserve the respect that the ppl who stand toe to toe get. It is however, a tactic, albiet a unhonourable one.
did u ever play MUME?
logging off in PvP would get you killed in the MUDs i used to play... and disconnecting when fighting mobiles would leave you dead more often than not |
meowcat
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Posted - 2004.09.17 20:17:00 -
[70]
Originally by: tyyryk
You know, I can remember playing text-based PvP muds for years, back before the internet became this wonderful GUI we take for granted. These logon/logoff tactics are nothing new, players used to run scripts that would spam 'where' to keep an active list of where ppl are in a zone.
If ppl are cheap enough to do this sort of tactic, then they are cheap, and don't deserve the respect that the ppl who stand toe to toe get. It is however, a tactic, albiet a unhonourable one.
did u ever play MUME?
logging off in PvP would get you killed in the MUDs i used to play... and disconnecting when fighting mobiles would leave you dead more often than not |
Kel Shek
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Posted - 2004.09.17 20:34:00 -
[71]
I think the problem thats at hand for this discussion, is a systematic one. a problem of the offline reality intruding on the game.
Fact: sometimes you have to log off unexpectedly.
Fact: sometimes this occurs at very inopportune times, such as when you are about to engage/be engaged in combat, and cannot (for whatever reason)readily extricate yourself within the game's context.
Fact: it would be severely unfair for one to lose their ship simply by default, when this situation happens. yes life is not fair, but this is a game, and at least when you have the un-funness of losing your ship to your own mistake... its your own doing, and you learn from it, theres no benefit to losing your 100M BS full of named guns and tech 2 items because your power crapped out, or your cable company decided to do maintenance, JUST as you warped into engaging the enemy.
since (afaik) a hardware disconnect such as physically pulling out the cable, would show up to the software the same as say, your ISP going down... people disconnecting to take advantage of the your avatar becming safe while your not able to control it solution in that context, is essentially inevitable.
the only real solution, would be something with more persistence... but you'd STILL NEED to have something to deal with unintended log outs.
best Idea I can think of, in that case would be possibly a... warp overload thing, that overcomes warp scrambling to warp to a random place in open space away from them. but you DON'T warp back when you log back in... but are stuck there til you activate a built in "repair" of the warp drives or something, that could take several minutes. the idea making it so that you can't log in and back as I've read complaints of.
but I don't think this game could handle that readily. at least not for a long while yet.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Kel Shek
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Posted - 2004.09.17 20:34:00 -
[72]
I think the problem thats at hand for this discussion, is a systematic one. a problem of the offline reality intruding on the game.
Fact: sometimes you have to log off unexpectedly.
Fact: sometimes this occurs at very inopportune times, such as when you are about to engage/be engaged in combat, and cannot (for whatever reason)readily extricate yourself within the game's context.
Fact: it would be severely unfair for one to lose their ship simply by default, when this situation happens. yes life is not fair, but this is a game, and at least when you have the un-funness of losing your ship to your own mistake... its your own doing, and you learn from it, theres no benefit to losing your 100M BS full of named guns and tech 2 items because your power crapped out, or your cable company decided to do maintenance, JUST as you warped into engaging the enemy.
since (afaik) a hardware disconnect such as physically pulling out the cable, would show up to the software the same as say, your ISP going down... people disconnecting to take advantage of the your avatar becming safe while your not able to control it solution in that context, is essentially inevitable.
the only real solution, would be something with more persistence... but you'd STILL NEED to have something to deal with unintended log outs.
best Idea I can think of, in that case would be possibly a... warp overload thing, that overcomes warp scrambling to warp to a random place in open space away from them. but you DON'T warp back when you log back in... but are stuck there til you activate a built in "repair" of the warp drives or something, that could take several minutes. the idea making it so that you can't log in and back as I've read complaints of.
but I don't think this game could handle that readily. at least not for a long while yet.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
CHUD
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Posted - 2004.09.17 21:07:00 -
[73]
To take a page from the pirate manual....Deal with it. If a person has to deal with being ganked 8v1, then you can deal with it when a person logs off to save their ship.
"It puts the lotion on its skin or it gets the hose again." |
CHUD
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Posted - 2004.09.17 21:07:00 -
[74]
To take a page from the pirate manual....Deal with it. If a person has to deal with being ganked 8v1, then you can deal with it when a person logs off to save their ship.
"It puts the lotion on its skin or it gets the hose again." |
Myko
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Posted - 2004.09.17 22:04:00 -
[75]
How about making the persistence longer the more times per week that player logs off (outside of a station)? That way if theres a genuine disconnection the player isn't really affected (unless he/she has a dodgy connection) but it would begin to curb logoff tactics.
RP-wise it could be that numerous emergency jumps damage the engines long term, making it take longer to emergency warp-away.
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Myko
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Posted - 2004.09.17 22:04:00 -
[76]
How about making the persistence longer the more times per week that player logs off (outside of a station)? That way if theres a genuine disconnection the player isn't really affected (unless he/she has a dodgy connection) but it would begin to curb logoff tactics.
RP-wise it could be that numerous emergency jumps damage the engines long term, making it take longer to emergency warp-away.
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meowcat
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Posted - 2004.09.17 22:50:00 -
[77]
its simple: the ship doesnt disappear if it's warp scrambled |
meowcat
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Posted - 2004.09.17 22:50:00 -
[78]
its simple: the ship doesnt disappear if it's warp scrambled |
MrBinary
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Posted - 2004.09.17 23:38:00 -
[79]
"Logging off to save your ship....It's ruining the game"
Hardly.
MrBinary
"[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary" |
MrBinary
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Posted - 2004.09.17 23:38:00 -
[80]
"Logging off to save your ship....It's ruining the game"
Hardly.
MrBinary
"[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary" |
Al Thorr
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Posted - 2004.09.17 23:53:00 -
[81]
Must admit - why cant ships stay live . no dissappearing , no warping away .. your ship just stays there until you log on as a pod / floating dna / ship.
you have insurance. afterall . and in 0.0 it would make your lets park it here over night , theory a tad obsolete.
scrap the dissappearing ships and a whole new leve of eve / combat would appear.
2 pebbles in the stream
Regards
Al Thorr
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Al Thorr
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Posted - 2004.09.17 23:53:00 -
[82]
Must admit - why cant ships stay live . no dissappearing , no warping away .. your ship just stays there until you log on as a pod / floating dna / ship.
you have insurance. afterall . and in 0.0 it would make your lets park it here over night , theory a tad obsolete.
scrap the dissappearing ships and a whole new leve of eve / combat would appear.
2 pebbles in the stream
Regards
Al Thorr
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Lallante
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Posted - 2004.09.18 02:11:00 -
[83]
Mr Binary is still alive?
OMG are you still being led around on a lead by PickleTink?
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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Lallante
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Posted - 2004.09.18 02:11:00 -
[84]
Mr Binary is still alive?
OMG are you still being led around on a lead by PickleTink?
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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zaqq
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Posted - 2004.09.18 08:03:00 -
[85]
how about the multiple, mod stacking whiner pvp gankers STFU
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zaqq
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Posted - 2004.09.18 08:03:00 -
[86]
how about the multiple, mod stacking whiner pvp gankers STFU
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JoCool
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Posted - 2004.09.18 11:04:00 -
[87]
Edited by: JoCool on 18/09/2004 11:05:31
Logging off to survive in pvp combat is an exploit that needs fixing BEFORE shiva. 'Nuff said.
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JoCool
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Posted - 2004.09.18 11:04:00 -
[88]
Edited by: JoCool on 18/09/2004 11:05:31
Logging off to survive in pvp combat is an exploit that needs fixing BEFORE shiva. 'Nuff said.
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Vanda Darksphere
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Posted - 2004.09.18 11:50:00 -
[89]
IMO if you disconnect in battle either through or bad connection, crash, or you pull the plug then too bad, you die. Fix your computer, complain to your ISP, CCP fix your code. If your computer or connection is flakey then don't PvP or your risk loosing your ship.
If something is not done then PvP will become a farce, who needs 5 warp-cores now? Just rip the plug out at the first sign of trouble. Where's the risk? Well known corps are using and admitting to the tactic, the general consensus will become, 'if they do it then so will I - I'm not gonna be the jerk who looses when I know I can escape.'
Until this is fixed corps should kick the people doing it and they should be forever shunned and black-listed by the commmunity. Exploiters ruin online games and spoil them for majority of honest non-exploiting players.
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Vanda Darksphere
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Posted - 2004.09.18 11:50:00 -
[90]
IMO if you disconnect in battle either through or bad connection, crash, or you pull the plug then too bad, you die. Fix your computer, complain to your ISP, CCP fix your code. If your computer or connection is flakey then don't PvP or your risk loosing your ship.
If something is not done then PvP will become a farce, who needs 5 warp-cores now? Just rip the plug out at the first sign of trouble. Where's the risk? Well known corps are using and admitting to the tactic, the general consensus will become, 'if they do it then so will I - I'm not gonna be the jerk who looses when I know I can escape.'
Until this is fixed corps should kick the people doing it and they should be forever shunned and black-listed by the commmunity. Exploiters ruin online games and spoil them for majority of honest non-exploiting players.
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