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Necrnemous Negulesco
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Posted - 2009.06.17 02:07:00 -
[1]
I've noticed what datacores are becoming increasingly expensive in all the hubs lately - particularly molecular and nanite engineering, which have almost doubled in price. I'm not really au fait with t3 invention, so not sure if thats a contributing factor. Of course - as any bulk inventor knows - R&D agents simply can't provide enough datacores to meet demand, unless you have deep pockets and many accounts. I'm left wondering if this is a temporary aberration in the market, or has there been a major change in the supply.
Any thoughts?
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.06.17 05:01:00 -
[2]
So?
With the next patch the amount of datacores used up in RE should rise a bit more due to market getting broader.
If the endproduct cant be sold for whats in it, stop doing it.
Forge '07 on Sale
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Tillsiter
Our Daily Bread Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 05:50:00 -
[3]
Doesnt t3 invention/reverse engineering uses some kind of sleeper datacores ?
Dont bite me if i am wrong :) |
Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2009.06.17 07:49:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Professor Leech on 17/06/2009 07:54:17
All t3 datacores come from W-space and have nothing to do with R&D agents.
R&D agents only supply datacores used in invention for t2 production. Demand and supply cause one part of the issue for the datacores that you're talking about. People will shift to more profitable datacores as they get around to it. The last factor is that not all people have access to all research agent types.
Supply of t2 datacores is entirely player driven. |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.06.17 09:22:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Professor Leech
All t3 datacores come from W-space and have nothing to do with R&D agents.
R&D agents only supply datacores used in invention for t2 production...
You sir, have no clue what so ever..
T3 hull reverse engineering uses ONLY k-space datacores.. namely mechanical engineering and plasma physic datacores..
The other subsystems use 50% k-space and 50% w-space datacores.
If you dont believe me.. look up relics in the market.
Forge '07 on Sale
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Clansworth
Farstrider Industries
MARS WARFARE CENTRE
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Posted - 2009.06.17 10:19:00 -
[6]
Industry as a whole seems to have gotten a bit of a boost in interest as of late, likely adding to an increase in demand for datacores. Supply on them is not capped however, like minerals/min mat'ls, etc, so as the prices come up, it will become a bit more attractive for some of the missioneers to train up RPM and cash in on the passive income. This will increase real supply and drop prices. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.06.17 12:17:00 -
[7]
The price of individual datacores was bound to eventually end up very close to eachother, with spikes in those that suddendly become more "in demand" and slight drops for the rest.
Also, there's an almost direct correlation (with a bit of lag) between datacore price and GTC (nowadays PLEX) price.
Put 1 and 1 together, and you get a 2, namely, that datacore prices will keep increasing for a while - at least until the Fanfest ticket sale is over.
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Letrange
Minmatar
Chaosstorm Corporation
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2009.06.17 12:30:00 -
[8]
More to the point - The push for T3 has resulted in opening up quite a bit of T2 that I wasn't able to invent prior to this point. In 15 days I'll be able to build Lokies. Go double check what science skills were needed to level 4 (and 5 in one case) and you'll see that it opens up a heck of a lot of T2 by itself.
Now imagine I'm not the only industrialist that did this.
You can't do T3 all the time.
Figure it out. |
Dodgy Past
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Posted - 2009.06.17 15:48:00 -
[9]
I'd also wonder how many extra POS have popped up due to wormholes, and therefore invention slots to use them. Also the extra interest in exploration probably means more invention is occurring. |
Necrnemous Negulesco
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Posted - 2009.06.17 19:13:00 -
[10]
The consensus seem to be that this is another post-patch market aberration, brought on by increased industrial activity following apocrypha. Its interesting that wormhole exploitation can impact traditional industry in such unexpected (to me anyway) ways. Would be nice to see CCP produce more economics blogs or something.
I'm interested in the correlation between PLEX and datacore prices mentioned above - would someone mind elaborating on that? It's not something I'd personally considered before.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.06.18 05:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Necrnemous Negulesco
I'm interested in the correlation between PLEX and datacore prices mentioned above - would someone mind elaborating on that? It's not something I'd personally considered before.
It's not that complicated.
There are enough people that depend (at least partially) on the datacore-sales generated income to sustain their alt accounts to make a significant dent in the supply whenever an increase in PLEX prices is not mirrored by an increase in datacore prices, by forcing them to (at least temporarily) shut down (some of) those alt accounts.
The correlation is obviously not linear, and there's also a significant time delay between actions, but whenever a change in the ISK cost of subscription time happens, there is always a noticeable long-term effect on datacore price trends (especially noticeable on mechanical engineering datacores due to the high volumes involved).
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
B1FF
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Posted - 2009.06.18 20:05:00 -
[12]
Increased demand and reduced supply.
When the T2 lottery was active it was very worth the effort to grind alt after alt up to high standing for the chance at a BPO. Now it's not worth it so much.
Slowly people with massive research alts leave the game. They are not being replaced as quickly because the incentive is not there to grind.
I'm sure Akita is close to the mark on the the weekly fluctuation causes but trend up was started with the end of the lottery.
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Carniflex
Caldari
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.06.19 09:51:00 -
[13]
Originally by: B1FF
Increased demand and reduced supply.
When the T2 lottery was active it was very worth the effort to grind alt after alt up to high standing for the chance at a BPO. Now it's not worth it so much.
Slowly people with massive research alts leave the game. They are not being replaced as quickly because the incentive is not there to grind.
I'm sure Akita is close to the mark on the the weekly fluctuation causes but trend up was started with the end of the lottery.
They don't exactly leave game. Their alts are inactive ... waiting. Like mine. You can amass quite a pile of RP on accout with 3 alts, each with proper number of R&D agents.
Year or two later you spend your 15 money - activate it for month - and cash in. Or happen to get lucky with one of those 1 day offers 'return to EVE' style.
You are ofcource correct in that regard, that if most of them go inactive that way it can cause prices to go up for a while. Mine are for example inactive as it was no longer economically sensible to keep em tiking with isk. R&D they were doing was just added benefit. I like to believe I'm not exception. One day it will be economically sensible to activate them for at least month.
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B1FF
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Posted - 2009.06.19 13:45:00 -
[14]
Yes but not everyone will. Sometimes when people cancel they never come back.
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Kiviar
Caldari
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.06.20 01:06:00 -
[15]
Datacore prices are steadily rising, and noob inventors are forcing prices down to unprofitability... makes you think doesn't it.
Think about how nice it would be to be able to choke people through the internet =P |
Necrnemous Negulesco
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Posted - 2009.06.20 02:37:00 -
[16]
Indeed! Curse those noob inventors, the black-hearted scoundrels 
All the same, things do seem to be trending downward over the 6 months or so. Mods like Nano IIs, Shield power relay IIs and cap recharger IIs are all significantly lower, and there aren't many mods selling for more on last year's prices. The POS exploit hit ferrogel prices pretty hard too. Invention is still mad profitable though, if you're willing to produce your own components and RAM/use buy orders etc. We're definitely seeing supply outstrip demand, even if the effects are taking a while to filter through to the market.
We should all shut down our POSs and PVP like crazy people, that would help
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5tewie Griffin
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Posted - 2009.06.20 13:45:00 -
[17]
Do you think CCP will address the "ghost" datacore accumulation in the same way that they eventually got 'round to ghost training?
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Lukriss
Lone Star Academy
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Posted - 2009.06.20 14:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Necrnemous Negulesco
, if you're willing to produce your own components and RAM/use buy orders etc.
You don't earn more isk from production by using buy orders over buying from sell orders, you just get a profit from trading instead.
Originally by: Akita T
PROBLEM : Basement is overflowing with water from a ruptured pipe.
NORMAL solution: fix the pipe, clean up the water.
CCP solution: install a pump to drain water from the base
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Dodgy Past
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Posted - 2009.06.20 16:19:00 -
[19]
Talk to any company involved in real life manufacturing and I'm sure they wouldn't consider themselves traders despite the fact they put a huge amount of effort into securing raw materials at the lowest price profitable.
While for a trader that just equals profit for a manufacturer the price they buy effects their power and control of the market for that item. |
Necrnemous Negulesco
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Posted - 2009.06.20 19:17:00 -
[20]
^^ What he said 
For example, I source all my high-end minerals (except morphite) from reprocessed loot buy orders at mission hubs - cuts my costs by about 30% on buying minerals or reprocess loot from sell orders alone. Treating buy and sell orders as synonymous would cost lots more in cases like this. |
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.06.21 02:39:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 21/06/2009 02:40:03
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Talk to any company involved in real life manufacturing and I'm sure they wouldn't consider themselves traders despite the fact they put a huge amount of effort into securing raw materials at the lowest price profitable.
While for a trader that just equals profit for a manufacturer the price they buy effects their power and control of the market for that item.
Of course, but in real life, people don't sell the finished product for anywhere near the price they could have just resold the materials for. In this game people do, and still try to say that the profit was from 'manufacturing'. The process of manufacturing in real life is much more complex than in Eve, so the profits over the base material cost are much higher, you don't get 1-2% margins.
If 99% of your profit is from manufacturing and 1% trade, obviously you wouldn't consider yourself a trader. But if your profit is 99% from trade and -10% from the manufacture, you're obviously not making money from manufacturing.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.06.21 02:45:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 21/06/2009 02:45:35
Originally by: Necrnemous Negulesco
^^ What he said
For example, I source all my high-end minerals (except morphite) from reprocessed loot buy orders at mission hubs - cuts my costs by about 30% on buying minerals or reprocess loot from sell orders alone. Treating buy and sell orders as synonymous would cost lots more in cases like this.
Buy materials for 70 isk. Materials on the market sell for 100 isk. You sell your finished product for 110 isk. You've made 10 isk from manufacturing and 30 isk from trade. It doesn't cost any more to treat it this way, it's just paper costs.
On the other hand, if you were to buy the materials for 70 isk, and sell the built product for 90 isk, if you don't treat it the way above, you've just made 20 isk profit. But you could have just resold the materials for 100 isk, so you've actually made 10 isk loss.
You have to cost your time to obtain the materials below market rates, even if that's by setting up buy orders, it's worth isk.
If you can't make a good profit just buying from sell orders and selling to buy orders, you should probably look at another product. Of course if you can do this and then instead buy using buy orders and sell using sell orders, you can make extra profit, and that's a nice bonus.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.06.21 02:47:00 -
[23]
Originally by: 5tewie Griffin
Do you think CCP will address the "ghost" datacore accumulation in the same way that they eventually got 'round to ghost training?
Ghost datacore accumulation negatively effects the game economy, Ghost training apparently negatively effects their income. So no.
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Future Mutant
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Posted - 2009.06.22 08:24:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Future Mutant on 22/06/2009 08:23:57
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Originally by: 5tewie Griffin
Do you think CCP will address the "ghost" datacore accumulation in the same way that they eventually got 'round to ghost training?
Ghost datacore accumulation negatively effects the game economy, Ghost training apparently negatively effects their income. So no.
eh they killed ghost implants- i think they will eventually kill ghost datacores...
*starts a nerf ghost datacore accumulation campaign just for the lol* |
Rellik B00n
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Posted - 2009.06.22 16:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: 5tewie Griffin
Do you think CCP will address the "ghost" datacore accumulation in the same way that they eventually got 'round to ghost training?
no it doesnt impact on CCP profit, therefore it isnt a problem.
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.06.22 20:38:00 -
[26]
Am I the only one who noticed a massive increase in manufacturing and R&D related skillbooks immediately preceeding march 10th?
It's a lot easier to roll a manufacturing alt than an R&D alt. So, profits due to t2 manufacture should decrease somewhat and prices of datacores increase somewhat. An account set up for both R&D and manufacture will require far more datacores than it can generate.
And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question? |
Fumen
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Posted - 2009.06.22 21:00:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Originally by: 5tewie Griffin
Do you think CCP will address the "ghost" datacore accumulation in the same way that they eventually got 'round to ghost training?
no it doesnt impact on CCP profit, therefore it isnt a problem.
How does this not impact on CCP's profits? If, as a player above described, the character is only activated for 30 days every 6 months or year, or even just activated on a 'free try EVE again' period, then that's several months a year that CCP isn't getting paid for an account, and a good amount more than with the ghost training. (10-11 mo with "ghost" RP accumulation vs 2-3 months with "ghost" training)
While we're on the point, what about "ghost" research and manufacturing jobs?
(Not trying to derail the topic, but it does relate if only minimally.) |
Rellik B00n
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Posted - 2009.06.22 21:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Fumen
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Originally by: 5tewie Griffin
Do you think CCP will address the "ghost" datacore accumulation in the same way that they eventually got 'round to ghost training?
no it doesnt impact on CCP profit, therefore it isnt a problem.
How does this not impact on CCP's profits? If, as a player above described, the character is only activated for 30 days every 6 months or year, or even just activated on a 'free try EVE again' period, then that's several months a year that CCP isn't getting paid for an account, and a good amount more than with the ghost training. (10-11 mo with "ghost" RP accumulation vs 2-3 months with "ghost" training)
While we're on the point, what about "ghost" research and manufacturing jobs?
(Not trying to derail the topic, but it does relate if only minimally.)
you dont have to argue this point to me I completely agree with you.
Why would you remove 1 "ghost" thing then leave everything else in?
what my one line answer was meant to convey was that apparently it was not important enough to CCP to fix it at the same time as the ghost-skills issue, therefore it cant of been having as much of an impact on profit.
Ultimately the "thats only 2 months a year they are getting paid instead of 12" argument doesnt work because if you limit all ghost activities those accounts will in all probability never be reactivated.
So if you were feeling really cynical you could say CCP left other ghost activites in because it at least means you have to re-sub at some point - if only to log in and sell you datacores. |
ShardowRhino
Caldari
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2009.06.23 12:18:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kiviar
Datacore prices are steadily rising, and noob inventors are forcing prices down to unprofitability... makes you think doesn't it.
Think about how nice it would be to be able to choke people through the internet =P
the trail of dead left behind by me would be astounding....
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Admiral IceBlock
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.06.23 13:06:00 -
[30]
I am hoping for my type of datacores to rise. I have 4b worth if I cash out now. I'll wait till it's worth 10b. |
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