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Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2009.06.19 20:21:00 - [91] Something tells me the Titan BPC prices are gonna drop in about 7 months.
Mahke Aeon Of Strife Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.06.19 20:38:00 - [92] Titan BPO research copy is a logical and smart thing to do. Allows huge amounts of isk to be invested extremely passively with decent returns; even better than T2 BPO's. This means it is a terrible idea counter intuitively: too many people will enter the market and the ROI will crash within the year. Also, the DD is broken as hell, it was used to kill a cap recently. The day someone uses them to kill caps in real combat (its coming, sooner or later) is the day CCP starts (if they haven't already) thinking of ways to keep the titan relevant while stripping out the DD, and thats a ton of risk (upside if they end up making it more useful somehow, but, I'm guessing downside is more likely). That all said, if the returns are high enough right now it might be worth it just on the short/medium term profits even if the long term outlook is gloomy.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.19 22:18:00 - [93] My alt will be ready to carry out the Titan BPO copying with maxed skills and implants in 14 days, so that is the timetable for discussion and the earliest possible launch for this venture. I'll be able to get a standings-fixed corp sorted out in that time too. Anyway, on the subject of Trustees: Who from Cosmo's "approved list" is willing to consider such a role? Originally by: cosmoray I would trust any 4 (+ you) from some of the following names on forum: Hexx Shar Kwint Ray Cosmoray Kazzac eVaLF AC155 Athre If we are looking at a 90% profit share for investors and a 10% profit share for administrators, divided as 6% for me and 1% each for the 4 Trustees, then we've got what I think is a workable reward structure. Yes, we would expect some if not all of the trustees to invest in the venture too.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.19 22:28:00 - [94] Id be investing, but likely no more than a bil, I just can't have much capital tied up for so long at that return rate.
eVaLF Delivery Luck	Posted - 2009.06.19 22:28:00 - [95] Originally by: Bad Bobby My alt will be ready to carry out the Titan BPO copying with maxed skills and implants in 14 days, so that is the timetable for discussion and the earliest possible launch for this venture. I'll be able to get a standings-fixed corp sorted out in that time too. Anyway, on the subject of Trustees: Who from Cosmo's "approved list" is willing to consider such a role? Originally by: cosmoray I would trust any 4 (+ you) from some of the following names on forum: Hexx Shar Kwint Ray Cosmoray Kazzac eVaLF AC155 Athre If we are looking at a 90% profit share for investors and a 10% profit share for administrators, divided as 6% for me and 1% each for the 4 Trustees, then we've got what I think is a workable reward structure. Yes, we would expect some if not all of the trustees to invest in the venture too. Count me in if needed.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.19 22:32:00 - [96] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Id be investing, but likely no more than a bil, I just can't have much capital tied up for so long at that return rate. Nonetheless, the question of your willingness (or not) to be a trustee is still valid.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.19 22:34:00 - [97] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Id be investing, but likely no more than a bil, I just can't have much capital tied up for so long at that return rate. Nonetheless, the question of your willingness (or not) to be a trustee is still valid. Of course, all it takes is an alt trial account. Its not like it would be a lot of work on any trustee part
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.06.20 04:23:00 - [98] Originally by: Robacz Something tells me the Titan BPC prices are gonna drop in about 7 months. Aye. How many rich folks saw this thread and immediately plunked down their own quarter trillion for a set of BPOs to run ME on for a year as an almost-no-effort investment? The actual effort required to jump on this bandwagon is even less than was required to jump on the datacore bandwagon (a la DATAC). It's not a huge market, so just one or two people doing so probably threatens BPC prices significantly in the medium term.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.06.20 04:38:00 - [99] Originally by: Thoraemond How many rich folks saw this thread and immediately plunked down their own quarter trillion for a set of BPOs to run ME on for a year as an almost-no-effort investment? I forgot I might be able to answer my own question!: Titan BPO sales report (Assuming they are sold only by the four main Navy corporations.) Avatar Blueprint (67.50 GISK): last transaction 2009-05-26 01:57 Erebus Blueprint (65.25 GISK): last transaction 2009-06-17 09:41 Leviathan Blueprint (63.00 GISK): last transaction 2009-06-10 21:45 Ragnarok Blueprint (60.75 GISK): last transaction 2009-05-20 02:09 So none purchased after this thread was initiated.
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2009.06.20 04:58:00 - [100] I'd probably be ok being a part of this. <Amarr's signature>
Titans 4U	Posted - 2009.06.20 07:09:00 - [101] Public share holding corp and its CEO alt created.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.20 07:11:00 - [102] Originally by: Titans 4U Public share holding corp and its CEO alt created. Confirming that this is me.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.20 09:42:00 - [103] It looks like we've got a decent plan to be getting on with and the security elements have been set up. I've spoken to AC155, who is involved with EBANKs own Titan operation and he has agreed to come on board as a Trustee. I would like Kazzac Elentria and Proton Power on board, as they both have valuable knowledge of related industries and have been trusted with large sums in the past. Kazzac's auditing knowledge will also be valuable to our investors in that I expect him to be more than capable of catching any scam. The other two hopefulls have already been mentioned, but as I haven't had the oppertunity to ask them yet we shall have to wait and see. In order to avoid clashing too much with EBANKs own Titan BPC output we will timetable the start of actual operations at 30 days from now. The launch will occur soon, once I've got the list of Trustees final. There will be a good length of time for people to dig out their iskies and invest. I'll be looking at 1m isk per share with no minimum or maximum requirement so as to allow people at all levels to invest. The corp that will be issuing the shares will be "Titans For You" with "Titans 4U" as my CEO alt. The alt and corp doing the copying will remain a closely guarded secret known only to me and the four Trustees, he's a totally anonymous research alt who will have maximum copy skills polished off in 14 days and all vital related skills in 30 days, futher training to allow him to make full use of the 'spare' POS facilities for non-Titan activities will come later. Rather than worrying about using EBANK to control the invested isk and release it to me for BPO purchases, I'm thinking that we should just sell off the shares in 70b isk phases (prior to the start date) which will be used to purchase and lock down the BPOs. Once the lockdown of one BPO is done and confirmed by the trustees, we can then take on the next 70b and so on. This will limit your exposure to a potential scam on my part to 70b at a time. I believe this is sufficient as we can be certain that at various points in the operation I am going to have to handle unlocked BPOs so investors are going to have to accept 70b of 'trust' in me by neccessity. I will, however, never allow myself to handle more than one unlocked BPO at any time and I will not allow myself to handle unlocked BPOs at the same time as our valuable BPCs if it can possibly be avoided. We will be aiming at 280b, but as said we will collect in 70b phases so that if investment dries up before 280b we will be happy with 1,2 or 3 BPOs rather than 4. The shares and votes to create them will be done after we take reservations in order to avoid the creation of excess shares (since they can't be destroyed). We're looking at 280,000 shares maximum. 90% of profits (that's after fuel costs and office rental) will be issued as dividends as and when profits are forthcomming. So you can expect payouts every 4 months on average. There will be a thread for the IPO that will be used to keep all investors up to date with the progress of the venture and the schedule for payouts as it evolves. 10% of profits will be used to pay for 'staff'. That being 6% for me and 4% between the trustees, I've discussed the options regarding which Titan BPOs to purchase and in which order of priority. Although the idea of buying multiples of FOTM Titans was tempting, I'm thinking that futureproofing against future rebalances and shifts in racial preference by buying one of each is overall the best option. The first two BPOs will be the first to be copied and the second two will be the first to recieve ME research, such that the FOTM BPCs will sell themselves easily on current popularity while the less favoured BPCs will sell themselves on having ME 1 from the outset. I'll be buying the follwing BPOs in this order: Leviathan (Caldari) Erebus (Gallente) Avatar (Amarr) Ragnarok (Minmatar) This plan is a draft, comments/questions are welcome.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.06.20 10:02:00 - [104] looks nice bobby, if you get hexxx and shar on this, your good to go :D good luck with this venture, and depending on returns i will be investing 5-20B
Gabriel Virtus hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.20 10:29:00 - [105] I would buy 1 share just because I think Bad Bobby is hilarious and his avatar looks sort of angry. I think its because he is balding. Can I be a token on the board of directors :) I am guessing you could get a 1-2 titan BPOs if you had the right security, I would like to see a profit sharing venture as well. The board of directors for the corp responsible would be a nice touch fot added security, however, someone would still need to buy and transport the BPO and would have at least 68B in their pockets... I am guess this sort of ISK is trusted amongst many of the people that you listed. I am guessing you have the deathstar and mercenaries if needed to defend the research/copy POS? With a high profile venture, I would worry that people might amass a large fleet just for this. ~GV
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.06.20 10:31:00 - [106] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 20/06/2009 10:33:57 Originally by: Gabriel Virtus ~GV Too late. I will deal with you later though. Black Sun Empire
Marcus Baltar	Posted - 2009.06.20 11:14:00 - [107] Originally by: Bad Bobby The corp that will be issuing the shares will be "Titans For You" with "Titans 4U" as my CEO alt. The alt and corp doing the copying will remain a closely guarded secret known only to me and the four Trustees, he's a totally anonymous research alt who will have maximum copy skills polished off in 14 days and all vital related skills in 30 days, futher training to allow him to make full use of the 'spare' POS facilities for non-Titan activities will come later. Will this potential future income/profit also be included in the Titan BPC venture costs/profits? It sounds like a good idea, and could, possibly, be run as a separate enterprise renting out the facilities owned by the Titan BPC venture (with appropriate safety/security in place) rather than including it in the Titan BPC venture. Just wondering as someone is bound to say "it was not in the original business plan" -- DesuSigs
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.20 11:19:00 - [108] Originally by: Gabriel Virtus I would buy 1 share just because I think Bad Bobby is hilarious and his avatar looks sort of angry. I think its because he is balding. He looks angry because he's bad, obviously. Originally by: Gabriel Virtus someone would still need to buy and transport the BPO and would have at least 68B in their pockets... I am guess this sort of ISK is trusted amongst many of the people that you listed. All of the trustees have previously had large volumes of isk in their care. I've already run a successfull 9b IPO which closed after about a year of operation, having paid out excellent (10% average) returns to it's investors during it's lifetime. I still have 9b invested with me in the Ugly Toys 4% Bond and I have several tens of billions worth of other people's assets locked down in my corps securing various IPOs and MD ventures. I also continue to have tens of billions worth of others peoples assets entrusted with me by tennants in my various Research & Industry corps on a continuous long-term basis. I believe I can be trusted with a 70b isk BPO, for the purpose of buying, moving and eventually selling but you can make your own determination on that by deciding if you wish to invest or not. Originally by: Gabriel Virtus I am guessing you have the deathstar and mercenaries if needed to defend the research/copy POS? Each Titan BPO costs 67.5b and the extra isk is going to be spent on a deathstar POS and various security measures. Bad Bobby is only my industrial alt. I don't need to hire mercenaries, I am one. One of my mains is the CEO of a small dedicated PvP/Pirate corp that has been responsible for dealing over 90 billion isk worth of enemy combat losses to our foes during our time in Factional Warfare alone, with a corp efficiency of over 89%. That corp has also been responsible for numerous hi-sec POS takedowns and defences all of which have been 100% successfull. They continue to be a fearsome PvP force in low-sec, 0.0 and wormhole piracy. Another of my mains is a Director of another dedicated PvP corp that has been around since 2005, responsible for over 260 billion isk worth of enemy combat losses even by Battleclinic's woefully incomplete records and with a corp efficiency of over 80%. Capable of calling upon hundreds of allied pilots should anything threaten our assets. PvP is what I do, Bad Bobby just makes me the isk to pay for it, so I am very confident when it comes to combat. I'm a skilled and experienced FC too, so organising and leading a defence force is something I have done countless times before. But should all that prove insufficient, I'm quite happy to call in help from my friends elsewhere in eve. Originally by: Gabriel Virtus With a high profile venture, I would worry that people might amass a large fleet just for this. Dispite the formidable combat force I have at my disposal, our best defence is the fact that the Titan copying corp will be anonymous and unkown. It will not be possible for anyone but myself and the trustees to know the exact identity or location of the corp, the alts used or the hi-sec deathstar. So unless a band of determined fighters sets about destroying every hi-sec deathstar in new eden they are unlikely to threaten our assets intentionally. Co-incidental attacks on our assets will be repelled with force proportionate to the risk and with preserving secrecy as a high priority.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.20 11:22:00 - [109] Originally by: Marcus Baltar Originally by: Bad Bobby The corp that will be issuing the shares will be "Titans For You" with "Titans 4U" as my CEO alt. The alt and corp doing the copying will remain a closely guarded secret known only to me and the four Trustees, he's a totally anonymous research alt who will have maximum copy skills polished off in 14 days and all vital related skills in 30 days, futher training to allow him to make full use of the 'spare' POS facilities for non-Titan activities will come later. Will this potential future income/profit also be included in the Titan BPC venture costs/profits? It sounds like a good idea, and could, possibly, be run as a separate enterprise renting out the facilities owned by the Titan BPC venture (with appropriate safety/security in place) rather than including it in the Titan BPC venture. Just wondering as someone is bound to say "it was not in the original business plan" Any isk I make with the other facilities within this corp will be shared in the same way as Titan BPC profits. I will not be renting out any part of the Titan copying POS to outsiders for security reasons. All works done withing that POS will be done by dedicated alts specific to this task.
Gabriel Virtus hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.20 11:51:00 - [110] Originally by: YouGotRipped It is a little too late to replace the "-GV" with "~GV". I will deal with you later though. Really? It cannot be too late, I think it adds a little something extra. I know you like it. Originally by: Bad Bobby He looks angry because he's bad, obviously Why would being bad make him angry? I feel like he would be smiling because he knows how bad he is. I still think itÆs the balding issue. Originally by: Bad Bobby I've already run a successfull 9b IPO which closed after about a year of operation, having paid out excellent (10% average) returns to it's investors during it's lifetime. I still have 9b invested with me in the Ugly Toys 4% Bond and I have several tens of billions worth of other people's assets locked down in my corps securing various IPOs and MD ventures. I also continue to have tens of billions worth of others peoples assets entrusted with me by tennants in my various Research & Industry corps on a continuous long-term basis. I believe I can be trusted with a 70b isk BPO, for the purpose of buying, moving and eventually selling but you can make your own determination on that by deciding if you wish to invest or not. Yes, but 70B is a little more than 9B. Do you think you currently have or ever have had 70B in public funds before? You or the other trustees. I am assuming even with a board of trustees, you would still be the one that would buy it and transport the BPO so why would the board really have any security increase. It provides an answer to the worst case mysterious bus accident and prevents you having more than 70B in your hands, as each one would be locked before you would have money to buy another (I am assuming obviously). The board seems to provide added security in-case of death; I doubt you would care much in this circumstance as you knowà you would be dead. It just seems that in order to invest, people have to at least trust you personally with 70B, so why would a board do anything? Keep you from unlocking all BPOs, in the case of multiple BPO purchases, at once? Seems pretty expensive (4%) for this added benefit Originally by: Bad Bobby I believe I can be trusted with a 70b isk BPO lol, god I would hope so. I agree that this is up to any investor if they think you have default/flight risk or not. The risk of scam seems to go up exponentially as ISK handled goes up. You are BAD bobby, right? -continued-
Gabriel Virtus hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.20 11:54:00 - [111] Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 20/06/2009 11:55:15 Originally by: Bad Bobby Each Titan BPO costs 67.5b and the extra isk is going to be spent on a deathstar POS and various security measures. Bad Bobby is only my industrial alt. I don't need to hire mercenaries, I am one. One of my mains is the CEO of a small dedicated PvP/Pirate corp that has been responsible for dealing over 90 billion isk worth of enemy combat losses to our foes during our time in Factional Warfare alone, with a corp efficiency of over 89%. That corp has also been responsible for numerous hi-sec POS takedowns and defences all of which have been 100% successfull. They continue to be a fearsome PvP force in low-sec, 0.0 and wormhole piracy. Another of my mains is a Director of another dedicated PvP corp that has been around since 2005, responsible for over 260 billion isk worth of enemy combat losses even by Battleclinic's woefully incomplete records and with a corp efficiency of over 80%. Capable of calling upon hundreds of allied pilots should anything threaten our assets. PvP is what I do, Bad Bobby just makes me the isk to pay for it, so I am very confident when it comes to combat. I'm a skilled and experienced FC too, so organising and leading a defense force is something I have done countless times before. But should all that prove insufficient, I'm quite happy to call in help from my friends elsewhere in eve. Dispite the formidable combat force I have at my disposal, our best defence is the fact that the Titan copying corp will be anonymous and unkown. It will not be possible for anyone but myself and the trustees to know the exact identity or location of the corp, the alts used or the hi-sec deathstar. So unless a band of determined fighters sets about destroying every hi-sec deathstar in new eden they are unlikely to threaten our assets intentionally. Co-incidental attacks on our assets will be repelled with force proportionate to the risk and with preserving secrecy as a high priority. A simple: yes, I have experience and the resources to repel even a determined wardec would have sufficed. It was an interesting read though ;). I think your best defense, by far, would be the secrecy of the holding corporation and POS location. I was going to ***** about the constant misspelling of defense (defence?)à and then figured you are probably British. ~GV~ See what I did there YGR? edit: format fail
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.20 11:55:00 - [112] Quote: It will not be possible for anyone but myself and the trustees to know the exact identity or location of the corp, the alts used or the hi-sec deathstar Imho revealing the name of your Titan alt and of the corp is totally unwarranted call for "griefing" or worse and a red flag I'd have preferred not to see (since I'd likely invest). My alt's corp and then POS have been tracked in about 1 day despite total anonimity and not disclosing any name just by investigation by a competent hi sec merc. The FIRST thing to do once you get this started is to make a corp called "pink smelly bunnies" or something and a "Jilly the shoemaker" alt and grant real anonimity.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.20 12:11:00 - [113] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 20/06/2009 11:57:55 Quote: It will not be possible for anyone but myself and the trustees to know the exact identity or location of the corp, the alts used or the hi-sec deathstar Imho revealing the name of your Titan alt and of the corp is totally unwarranted call for "griefing" or worse and a red flag I'd have preferred not to see (since I'd likely invest). My alt's corp and then POS have been tracked in about 1 day despite total anonimity and not disclosing any name just by investigation by a competent hi sec merc. The FIRST thing to do once you get this started is to make a corp called "pink smelly bunnies" or something and a "Jilly the shoemaker" alt and grant real anonimity. And even then... beware of the behavioural patterns. The corp name and alt name I have made public is nothing to do with the copying, it's just the holding corp for the investment shares. I've tracked people's alts in hi-sec myself on many an occasion, I know how it's done and I know how to prevent it.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.20 12:20:00 - [114] Incidentally Vaerah is already aquainted with the combat capabilities of one of my PvP corps. I hope you enjoyed the fireworks!
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2009.06.20 12:33:00 - [115] While I'm all for creating a good IPO, I see a couple of problems with it. If current Titan BPC prices hold and you don't have any issues with production, investors would probably see a return of ~4%/month, which isn't a whole lot when you compare it to the risks (imho). This IPO is aimed at a long term run time, if you look at initiatives like DATAC, there are a lot of things that could go wrong that are completely outside your control. One of those is that the Titan BPC price could tank so much that any return on the investment would be far to low to continue. Game mechanics might change, prices of the BPOs might change, etc. (This isn't as farfetched as you might think, just look at the prices of GTCs and the end of ghost training that made Datacore farming pretty much unprofitable.) While a BOD might secure the holding, it also creates the possibility of a security leak. A secret only stays a secret when you tell no one about it. Sure you've got a bunch of very trustworthy folks there, it's not the first time we've seen trustworthy people change, and a leak like this doesn't leave an audit trail...
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.06.20 12:38:00 - [116] leaking is also my biggest concern. ! the 5 members currently presented for the BOD/Audit im sure wouldnt intentionally leak anything, but it can easely happen by accident... (something as simple, as NOT tapping into the right chat window :p) etc. also i hope that we will see returns higher than 4%. last; i think the 3-4 payments per year is realistic.
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2009.06.20 12:59:00 - [117] Originally by: Ji Sama leaking is also my biggest concern. ! the 5 members currently presented for the BOD/Audit im sure wouldnt intentionally leak anything, but it can easely happen by accident... (something as simple, as NOT tapping into the right chat window :p) etc. also i hope that we will see returns higher than 4%. last; i think the 3-4 payments per year is realistic. 70B investment => 40-45B return a year (with current prices) - operating costs (upkeep of the POS) - 10% for the administrators. Even if you could get a 45B isk a year, you won't hit the 5%/month. I'm not perfect so I might have messed up the math somewhere, so do your own calculations. You might find that the prices will keep for a few runs, but eventually prices will go down, as it does with most things in EVE. Chances are that prices might recover, but I doubt the IPO would survive that long with it's main money maker being with one (type) of product). If the market of the Titan BPCs goes down the drain, chances are that the market for the Titan BPOs will also crumble. I think that if you could sell the BPO in such a situation, you would do so at a loss. And that already not so high return on this IPO would become even less. Sure, there are chances with any IPO, but your putting all your money one one horse (Titan BPCs). The margins are already not to high, not leaving you very much room to work with in leaner times...
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.20 13:03:00 - [118] Originally by: Cergorach While I'm all for creating a good IPO, I see a couple of problems with it. If current Titan BPC prices hold and you don't have any issues with production, investors would probably see a return of ~4%/month, which isn't a whole lot when you compare it to the risks (imho). This IPO is aimed at a long term run time, if you look at initiatives like DATAC, there are a lot of things that could go wrong that are completely outside your control. One of those is that the Titan BPC price could tank so much that any return on the investment would be far to low to continue. Game mechanics might change, prices of the BPOs might change, etc. (This isn't as farfetched as you might think, just look at the prices of GTCs and the end of ghost training that made Datacore farming pretty much unprofitable.) While a BOD might secure the holding, it also creates the possibility of a security leak. A secret only stays a secret when you tell no one about it. Sure you've got a bunch of very trustworthy folks there, it's not the first time we've seen trustworthy people change, and a leak like this doesn't leave an audit trail... The risks, while definately present, are unlikely to endanger your initial investment. The board of trustees, lockdown procedures and obfuscation have been put in place for exactly this reason, to make sure your isk is safe from scams, deaths, burnouts and other disasters. ME research on the Titan BPOs will also make it fairly unlikely that we will be unable to sell them for at least the price paid, even post-nerf. If the returns nosedive selling the BPOs will be our get-out. It's also highly unlikey that the NPC price of a Titan will be reduced, the opposite is much more likely. The risks to the return on investment, are more of a factor. This is a long term venture and we can expect to see the returns dwindle over the full turm as we see the market saturate. To some degree this will be mitigated as we see expectations of returns from public companies dwindle at the same time, as we have seen to a tremendous degree over past years. The ME research we will be doing on the BPOs will also generate higher value BPCs over time. We will also be increasing production between year one and year two, most likely, as we complete our ME research and start producing twice as many copies instead, further increasing returns. If Titans are not nerfed into oblivion, we could see the ME researched BPOs being worth a fair bit more than NPC price and we could see an additional return (at liquidation) due to this. A return of 4 percent per month, as has been suggested, is reasonable to expect once things get going. Obviously with copies being produced every 4 months this will be rolled up into a bumper quarterly payout. As much as there are risks of returns dwindling there is also potential for good returns if CCP hold off on Titan nerfs or rebalance them into a form that still holds appeal. A security leak may result in the location of our POS being compromised. The most that can occur from this is the loss of partial research/copying results and the loss of our deathstar. This would be a set back for our profits but nothing more. A new secret corp could be created, new deathstar built and work continue in short order.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.06.20 13:10:00 - [119] Originally by: Cergorach 70B investment => 40-45B return a year (with current prices) - operating costs (upkeep of the POS) - 10% for the administrators. Even if you could get a 45B isk a year, you won't hit the 5%/month. I'm not perfect so I might have messed up the math somewhere, so do your own calculations. your math looks fine imo. but the initial investment (the BPO's) will not loose all its value, when times come and im sure it will, liquidating the IPO will also yield a net return. so you might get 65B over 1+ year in return, top that off with the BPO's being sold again, now with ME value. We should see atleast initial investment returned + 5% imo.. but then again im completely out of my league here!
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.06.20 13:17:00 - [120] Originally by: Bad Bobby Each Titan BPO costs 67.5 GISK and the extra ISK is going to be spent on a deathstar POS and various security measures. Actually, as mentioned in my earlier post (see above), only the most expensive Titan BPO is 67.5 GISK. The cheapest is fully 6.75 GISK (10%) cheaper. The full set runs to 256.5 GISK, not 270 GISK, so raising 280 GISK and buying the set would leave 23.5 GISK for POS operations, security. While this is less than 10% of the intended total, this is not a trivial unsecured pool of ISK, being larger than the entirety of most IPOs and bond offerings.

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