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eVaLF Delivery Luck	Posted - 2009.06.22 14:48:00 - [181] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Saehta Changing gears back to the BOD. I am curious as to the % for the BOD. Is it 4% cut? Also how is the headway coming on the selection process? My intention was to pay each of the trustees a 1% cut of the profits. The total for 4 trustees would therefore be 4%. Kazzac and AC155 have agreed to be trustees. Proton Power volunteered further back in the thread, but I haven't had a chance to speak to him about it. I haven't been able to catch Hexxx or Shar online yet. Although I have eve-mailed Hexxx on the subject. Should I be unable to secure 4 of these people, I will cast the net wider. I am in just need to know what you expect from me. Long as I agree with terms which I really dont see to be an issue will do what ever is needed. ----- POS FUEL DELIVERY & HIGH & LOW SEC FREIGHTER SERVICES
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.24 22:23:00 - [182] Shar has agreed to be trustee #4, giving us: Kazzac Elentria AC155 Proton Power (aka Evalf) Shar Tegral (aka Hawkblade) Seems like a good bunch to me! Their job will be: 1. To vote against any unlock votes unless they have been agreed to in an open public discussion with shareholders that results in a decision to liquidate, relocate or something else sensible. 2. To create a free trial alt to be added to the top secret titan copying corp with director roles so that the corp's assets can be liquidated in the event that I am hit by a bus or otherwise unable to continue. 3. To keep the location of the top secret POS and the identity of the top secret titan copying corp a closely guarded secret. That's it really. I have every faith in their ability to carry out this task. Each trustee has been allocated 1% of the venture's profits as payment for these services. If a trustee wishes they may elect not to take that payment and it will be allocated to the shareholders profit share instead. The choice is theirs.
eVaLF Delivery Luck	Posted - 2009.06.24 22:34:00 - [183] Originally by: Bad Bobby Shar has agreed to be trustee #4, giving us: Kazzac Elentria AC155 Proton Power (aka Evalf) Shar Tegral (aka Hawkblade) Seems like a good bunch to me! Their job will be: 1. To vote against any unlock votes unless they have been agreed to in an open public discussion with shareholders that results in a decision to liquidate, relocate or something else sensible. 2. To create a free trial alt to be added to the top secret titan copying corp with director roles so that the corp's assets can be liquidated in the event that I am hit by a bus or otherwise unable to continue. 3. To keep the location of the top secret POS and the identity of the top secret titan copying corp a closely guarded secret. That's it really. I have every faith in their ability to carry out this task. Each trustee has been allocated 1% of the venture's profits as payment for these services. If a trustee wishes they may elect not to take that payment and it will be allocated to the shareholders profit share instead. The choice is theirs. Easy enough, just send me (evalf prefered if not proton works as well) an eve mail of what corp and were to apply not sure if your getting corp setup prior to opening this up for public or not. Per the 1% I can care less about it tbh, just throw mine to share holders.
Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2009.06.24 22:52:00 - [184] Our BPO's will soon be out of ME/PE and into copying. Supply of copies will be increasing somewhat...
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.06.24 22:54:00 - [185] Originally by: eVaLF Easy enough, just send me (evalf prefered if not proton works as well) an eve mail of what corp and were to apply not sure if your getting corp setup prior to opening this up for public or not. Per the 1% I can care less about it tbh, just throw mine to share holders. Could not have said it better myself.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.25 05:55:00 - [186] Originally by: eVaLF Easy enough, just send me (evalf prefered if not proton works as well) an eve mail of what corp and were to apply not sure if your getting corp setup prior to opening this up for public or not. Will do. We will keep all details pertaining to that corp between myself and the trustees, including the date of it's creation regardless of whether that is in the past or the future. Originally by: eVaLF Per the 1% I can care less about it tbh, just throw mine to share holders. I expected as much, but I preferred to offer the isk and have it turned down than demand these services for free. Thanks for comming on board guys.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.25 12:32:00 - [187] Originally by: Leowen Edited by: Leowen on 25/06/2009 06:28:47 Note to self: Don't post after 5 bottles of Magners Pear! Best not to touch that filthy stuff. The concept of a 'fasionable' cider is so wrong I don't know where to start. Give me a good rustic scrumpy or a real ale over that fruitier's **** any day. In response to the unedited post, I expect competition and I have never feared it. We can try to get along by spreading out our sales to promote good profits for all, as I am doing based on casual discussions with other rivals, or we can get out the fighting sticks and go to war over it... either way has it's appeal.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.25 12:49:00 - [188] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: eVaLF Easy enough, just send me (evalf prefered if not proton works as well) an eve mail of what corp and were to apply not sure if your getting corp setup prior to opening this up for public or not. Per the 1% I can care less about it tbh, just throw mine to share holders. Could not have said it better myself. What they said
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.25 14:52:00 - [189] So, it looks like we have got to the stage where a launch is possible. So we now need to thrash out the exact manner and process of the launch. Here is my suggestion: 1. I make a seperate launch post, linking this thread, so that we can continue discussion here while keeping the launch post less cluttered and clearer for all to understand. This is not an effort to obscure the conversation that has occured here, this thread will be clearly linked to ensure that the information and discussion here is available to all investors. 2. We take reservations up to 265 billion isk in total. No isk is to be sent to anyone at this stage. 3. Once we have finished reservations and found the limit of the available funding, we will decide on the number of BPOs to be involved in the operation. Each BPO will have a block of the funding (265b max) allocated to it as follows: Block 1 = 70b (Leviathan BPO and setup costs) Block 2 = 66b (Erebus BPO) Block 3 = 68b (Avatar BPO) Block 4 = 61b (Ragnarok BPO) Only completely filled blocks will be used, partially funded blocks will have their reservations cancelled. 4. A vote will be held to create the required number of shares for the blocks we will be launching. 5. The first block of funding will be requested from those that have placed a reservation. Only those who's reservation falls within the first block will send their isk. This will be used to purchase the first BPO etc and that BPO will be locked down under trustee control before we go any further. The first block of shares will be distributed. 6, 7 & 8. The same as the above for blocks 2-4 as required. 9. The project goes live and the plan that has already been discussed will be put into action. If this approach meets with general agreement and no holes need patching, I will go ahead and create the launch post. Given that the sums of isk are large and it may take time for people to gather funds for investment and due to the need for several votes for share creation and lockdown and the need for several seperate stages where I must wait for funds to be sent, I believe it is prudent to put a fairly long timescale on this process. I will therefore set aside 30 days from the launch post creation for reservations to be made, or until all shares are reserved, whichever comes first. Thereafter I will set a timescale of 15 days for steps 3-8 to be actioned. So step 9, the actual start of the operation, will be timetabled for 45 days from the launch post.
Dzil Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.06.25 14:55:00 - [190] Originally by: Bad Bobby In response to the unedited post, I expect competition and I have never feared it. We can try to get along by spreading out our sales to promote good profits for all, as I am doing based on casual discussions with other rivals, or we can get out the fighting sticks and go to war over it... either way has it's appeal. WTB Graphic novel depicting MD carebear war. I'm not sure whether it would be better doing the four-eyed nerd or a satircal anime-style Dragonball look with a giant "BB" logo on his chest. BB: "This is where it ends, KAZZAC! There's no way you can block my TITAN BPC PRICE SLASH! Bystander: "****! This API reader shows his NAV is OVER 9000 G's! >.> <.< Sorry, carry on. ---------------------- Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings ----------------------
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.25 15:06:00 - [191] Originally by: Dzil Originally by: Bad Bobby In response to the unedited post, I expect competition and I have never feared it. We can try to get along by spreading out our sales to promote good profits for all, as I am doing based on casual discussions with other rivals, or we can get out the fighting sticks and go to war over it... either way has it's appeal. WTB Graphic novel depicting MD carebear war. I'm not sure whether it would be better doing the four-eyed nerd or a satircal anime-style Dragonball look with a giant "BB" logo on his chest. BB: "This is where it ends, KAZZAC! There's no way you can block my TITAN BPC PRICE SLASH! Bystander: "****! This API reader shows his NAV is OVER 9000 G's! >.> <.< Sorry, carry on. I approve this message.
Leowen Industrial Giants	Posted - 2009.06.25 15:14:00 - [192] Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Dzil Originally by: Bad Bobby In response to the unedited post, I expect competition and I have never feared it. We can try to get along by spreading out our sales to promote good profits for all, as I am doing based on casual discussions with other rivals, or we can get out the fighting sticks and go to war over it... either way has it's appeal. WTB Graphic novel depicting MD carebear war. I'm not sure whether it would be better doing the four-eyed nerd or a satircal anime-style Dragonball look with a giant "BB" logo on his chest. BB: "This is where it ends, KAZZAC! There's no way you can block my TITAN BPC PRICE SLASH! Bystander: "****! This API reader shows his NAV is OVER 9000 G's! >.> <.< Sorry, carry on. I approve this message. Meh, not enough nerd references. 6/10. Could do better.
Jackie Fisher Syrkos Technologies	Posted - 2009.06.25 15:32:00 - [193] Originally by: Bad Bobby 5. The first block of funding will be requested from those that have placed a reservation. Only those who's reservation falls within the first block will send their isk. This will be used to purchase the first BPO etc and that BPO will be locked down under trustee control before we go any further. The first block of shares will be distributed. Given that the sums of isk are large and it may take time for people to gather funds for investment and due to the need for several votes for share creation and lockdown and the need for several seperate stages where I must wait for funds to be sent, I believe it is prudent to put a fairly long timescale on this process. I will therefore set aside 30 days from the launch post creation for reservations to be made, or until all shares are reserved, whichever comes first. Thereafter I will set a timescale of 15 days for steps 3-8 to be actioned. So step 9, the actual start of the operation, will be timetabled for 45 days from the launch post. So am I right in thinking there is a 15 day window per Block where you could be holding up to 70 bil of funds with no investor protection? If so, any thoughts for reducing this without jeopardising the secrecy of corps names etc?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.25 15:37:00 - [194] Originally by: Dzil WTB Graphic novel depicting MD carebear war. I'm not sure whether it would be better doing the four-eyed nerd or a satircal anime-style Dragonball look with a giant "BB" logo on his chest. BB: "This is where it ends, KAZZAC! There's no way you can block my TITAN BPC PRICE SLASH! Bystander: "****! This API reader shows his NAV is OVER 9000 G's! >.> <.< Sorry, carry on. She's gone plaid
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2009.06.25 16:08:00 - [195] Originally by: Bad Bobby 1. To vote against any unlock votes unless they have been agreed to in an open public discussion with shareholders that results in a decision to liquidate, relocate or something else sensible. So we can hold it against them when they all miss that well-timed 24h unlock vote?
Dzil Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.06.25 16:11:00 - [196] Originally by: Krathos Morpheus Originally by: Bad Bobby The military side of the security measures don't come for free. If you need to call the military you have already failed (unless it is somme random atack). As Cosmo said there is no reason (besides your own benefit) for a permanent fee on something that happens from time to time at worst. That's the risk he's aiming to mitigate though. A random attack would threaten billions of isk. If he's taking care of that "off the books", there's no reason for the aggressor to realise what they stumbled upon. If the details of the IPO force him to report it as a military expense, it won't take much at all for the aggressor to realise the heavy enterprise they stumbled upon. I think this investment is much safer if military assaults on the research installation are not publicly reported, confirming and revealing its location to any adversaries. Now, if the station were destroyed and profits were being impacted - that's another story. BB, does your management fee and promise of military support include insurance against a successful attack on the POS? IE would you opt to just silently payout the dividends and absorb the loss, to avoid disclosing the location/identity of the holding corp?
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.25 16:44:00 - [197] Originally by: Jackie Fisher So am I right in thinking there is a 15 day window per Block where you could be holding up to 70 bil of funds with no investor protection? If so, any thoughts for reducing this without jeopardising the secrecy of corps names etc? No, the window will not be 15 days per block but 15 days total for all 4 blocks to be completed. Yes, I will have to be trusted with 70b in funds at most, during that period and I will have to be trusted with similar sums during the course of the IPO. I have suggested all the security measures I can think of, I'm open to ideas and have been throughout this discussion. While we could entrust the 70b to a third party and have them purchase, transport and lock down the BPOs you will still be trusting someone with 70b with no controls and I believe I am pretty much as good a person to trust in this case as any other.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.25 16:46:00 - [198] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Bad Bobby 1. To vote against any unlock votes unless they have been agreed to in an open public discussion with shareholders that results in a decision to liquidate, relocate or something else sensible. So we can hold it against them when they all miss that well-timed 24h unlock vote? Yes. I can only make use of the tools CCP give me, the lockdown vote system may be limited and generally poor but that is all I really have to work with. At least you only need two of the four trustees to be paying attention to stop me from unlocking the BPOs and disappearing with them. Have you any suggestions to improve the security and prevent these issues?
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.25 16:49:00 - [199] Originally by: Dzil I think this investment is much safer if military assaults on the research installation are not publicly reported, confirming and revealing its location to any adversaries. Now, if the station were destroyed and profits were being impacted - that's another story. BB, does your management fee and promise of military support include insurance against a successful attack on the POS? IE would you opt to just silently payout the dividends and absorb the loss, to avoid disclosing the location/identity of the holding corp? There is a "war chest" included in the funds we are raising that will allow me to handle minor losses without reporting them. Obviously any loss that resulted in substantially reduced profits would have to be reported somehow, but I will be able to delay reporting such an event so that the link between the particular POS attack and this venture could be masked.
Block Ukx Forge Laboratories	Posted - 2009.06.25 17:09:00 - [200] What would prevent you from not paying dividends? This is a major risk for investors and I donÆt think it has been touch at all in this thread. A BOD and locked BPOs wonÆt prevent that.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.25 17:15:00 - [201] Originally by: Block Ukx What would prevent you from not paying dividends? This is a major risk for investors and I donÆt think it has been touch at all in this thread. A BOD and locked BPOs wonÆt prevent that. I believe the board of trustees could attempt to vote me out, take over the operation and liquidate, but I could stop them by removing their director roles. Simply refusing to pay and keeping all the profits for myself is a possibility, I only have my reputation and the value that has both now and in the future to balance against that. Personally I do not think this is the last major venture I will carry out, I think there are places for me to go beyond this and I would not want to destroy that by scamming here. Obviously thats just words, so you all have to make your own decision about the level of trust you have for me.
Block Ukx Forge Laboratories	Posted - 2009.06.25 17:19:00 - [202] Originally by: Bad Bobby ... you all have to make your own decision about the level of trust you have for me. You are asking people to trust you with 280 Billion ISK, not 70 Billion.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.25 17:28:00 - [203] Originally by: Block Ukx Originally by: Bad Bobby ... you all have to make your own decision about the level of trust you have for me. You are asking people to trust you with 280 Billion ISK, not 70 Billion. It's 265 billion, but yes. I am asking people to trust me with up to 265 billion with as many controlls in place as we can come up with. I am asking people to trust me with around 70 billion without any controls beyond my desire to protect my reputation. Depending on timing and how many BPCs are in my control it could be a little more on both totals. Yes, I am asking people to trust me about as much as they trust various other notables involved in MD, banks and other worthy institutions within eve. I may be getting above myself, but I felt that now was the time to make a major launch in MD and I'm happy to be testing the limits of my reputation and the trust people have for me.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.25 17:35:00 - [204] If refusal to pay divs is done, the BOD could publicly state the location of the POS and prints. In this way they essentially become useless as you'll never be able to make another copy ever again. Then you more or less are locked into a staring match of who misses that 24hr unlock deadline unless someone relents first. Alternatively you could also broker the sales through yet ANOTHER third party who would handle the sales, dividends, supplies, mgt payments. IN this way BB never really has control over anything except at the start of the operation when the prints are to be purchased and moved.
Cayce Pollard	Posted - 2009.06.25 17:35:00 - [205] Something thatÆs confusing to me, and I apologize if this has been covered elsewhere, how are the BOD supposed to be diligent and check for unlock votes if they are on lapsed trial accounts?
Cayce Pollard	Posted - 2009.06.25 17:39:00 - [206] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria If refusal to pay divs is done, the BOD could publicly state the location of the POS and prints. In this way they essentially become useless as you'll never be able to make another copy ever again. Then you more or less are locked into a staring match of who misses that 24hr unlock deadline unless someone relents first. Alternatively you could also broker the sales through yet ANOTHER third party who would handle the sales, dividends, supplies, mgt payments. IN this way BB never really has control over anything except at the start of the operation when the prints are to be purchased and moved. Only if the BPOs are not in a station with copy slots. It would cut down on the speed with which they could be copied but he could still crank them out.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.25 17:40:00 - [207] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria If refusal to pay divs is done, the BOD could publicly state the location of the POS and prints. In this way they essentially become useless as you'll never be able to make another copy ever again. Then you more or less are locked into a staring match of who misses that 24hr unlock deadline unless someone relents first. I think there are many ways that the trustees, investors, MD and general EVE population can make my life difficult in response to me pulling any kind of stunt with this. Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Alternatively you could also broker the sales through yet ANOTHER third party who would handle the sales, dividends, supplies, mgt payments. IN this way BB never really has control over anything except at the start of the operation when the prints are to be purchased and moved. I think at this point the number of people involved in this operation and it's security becomes rather silly. We would still, after all, have to find yet another person we are happy to hold on to so much isk.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.25 17:42:00 - [208] Originally by: Cayce Pollard Something thatÆs confusing to me, and I apologize if this has been covered elsewhere, how are the BOD supposed to be diligent and check for unlock votes if they are on lapsed trial accounts? They will hold the shares in the wallets of their active characters, the trial accounts are there for hit-by-a-bus liquidation purposes and are entirely unrelated to the lockdown provisions. It's two seperate security measures aimed at two different things.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.25 17:44:00 - [209] Originally by: Cayce Pollard Originally by: Kazzac Elentria If refusal to pay divs is done, the BOD could publicly state the location of the POS and prints. In this way they essentially become useless as you'll never be able to make another copy ever again. Then you more or less are locked into a staring match of who misses that 24hr unlock deadline unless someone relents first. Alternatively you could also broker the sales through yet ANOTHER third party who would handle the sales, dividends, supplies, mgt payments. IN this way BB never really has control over anything except at the start of the operation when the prints are to be purchased and moved. Only if the BPOs are not in a station with copy slots. It would cut down on the speed with which they could be copied but he could still crank them out. If you would prefer I can select a NPC station without copy slots and the trustees can confirm that, personally I think it is best not to do this for various reasons, but if the investors insist upon it then it is entirely possible.
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.06.25 17:46:00 - [210] Originally by: Cayce Pollard Something thatÆs confusing to me, and I apologize if this has been covered elsewhere, how are the BOD supposed to be diligent and check for unlock votes if they are on lapsed trial accounts? Well, speaking for myself, the toon I'm going to be using is on my main account. Ryu Jin'ma has some post history as I used him for doing auctions anonymous of me. That function became totally unnecessary so I found other uses for him. I do believe that Kazuo should be able to confirm that indeed he is on my account as well. (If Kazuo has saved audit info from a while back.)

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