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Finally in my CNR...Disappointed.

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Tavers	Posted - 2009.06.22 18:52:00 - [1] After about 2 months of high end L3s and low end L4s, I finally had enough cash for my CNR/Fit. Here is my setup [HIGH] 7xCruise Missile Launcher I ; Mission specific ammo 1xHeavy NOS [MED] Pith B-Type Large Booster DG Shield Boost Amp 2xDG Invulns PWNAGE Painter Cap Recharger II [LOW] 4xBCU II 1xCo-Processor II [RIGS] 2xRigor 1xCCC [DRONES] 5x Hammerhead I This fit cost me just a few shades under 1b. Frankly, I expected a lot more. Maybe my missile skills just aren't up to par, but after flying a Drake for 2 months, I kind of just want to sell it and get my drake back. I was told this was a good "gank" fit, but frankly it takes me about 10 volleys to kill a BS. Better DPS than the Drake? Hell yeah! Less DPS than I expected after all the CNR praise? Yes... The tank does ok, but it's still weaker than the Drakes. So far I've spent more on repairing the damn thing than I have on my whole Drake/fit. Am I doing something horribly wrong? Please help!
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr SPORADIC MOVEMENT Cult of War	Posted - 2009.06.22 18:55:00 - [2] Skills my friend, tell use your Caldari BS skill level and all your missile skills (Cruise missiles + all the support stuff).
Tavers	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:01:00 - [3] Caldari Battleship : 4 Cruise Missiles : 3 Launcher Operation : 5 Rapid Launch : 4 Target Nav Prediction : 3 Projection : 3 Bombardment : 3 Cruise Specialization : 0 Warhead Upgrades : 2 Perfect Skills? No. I still feel like I am under performing for those skills though.
Tavers	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:05:00 - [4] Forgot Guided Precision, which is level 2.
Gin G Halls Of Valhalla	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:09:00 - [5] Pith B-Type Large Booster DG Shield Boost Amp so you buy all those and dont even buy T1 M4 or caldari navy and whats even more shocking you cant even use T2 launchers yet i suggest you just sell the crap and either get a drake it can do pretty much all L4 missions at a fraction of the cost of that garbage or train for a turret ship like the abaddon or rokh maybe and do this magical thing called DPS that pretty much all CNR/raven pilots dont understand ************ are you getting your 5 a day.
Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:10:00 - [6] Yep, sell your CNR and get back in the Drake. Afterwards, sit back and contemplate on the word "Arbalest".
Gin G Halls Of Valhalla	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:17:00 - [7] Science and Trade Institute from 2009.04.29 06:16 thats why you are diserpointed theres no chance you would have the skills to effectivley use a CNR let alone a normal raven yet
Tavers	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:20:00 - [8] Edited by: Tavers on 22/06/2009 19:20:23 Edited by: Tavers on 22/06/2009 19:19:54 Originally by: Gin G Science and Trade Institute from 2009.04.29 06:16 thats why you are diserpointed theres no chance you would have the skills to effectivley use a CNR let alone a normal raven yet If I was posting from my main, sure.. Don't arbalest launchers just increase ROF??
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:21:00 - [9] I started out with Arbalest cruise launchers and ballistic control system IIs. Now I have a full rack of Caldari Navy cruise launcher and BCS. It makes a difference. At only 4 million each, there's no real reason to use lower than Arbalest cruise launchers. As to how many volleys are needed, it depends on your skills and what you're shooting at. The painter and the rigors don't increase your damage, they make sure the target takes a greater proportion of the damage you're already doing. Me, I currently have Cruise Missiles 4, Warhead Upgrades 4, and all the missile support skills at 4. Typically I can kill a low-bounty battleship in 4-5 volleys (the low-end Angels die fast) while a 1.2 million bounty Centus Tyrant takes 9-10. I'm only running 3 BCS as well currently.
Tavers	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:22:00 - [10] Originally by: Gin G a turret ship like the abaddon or rokh maybe and do this magical thing called DPS that pretty much all CNR/raven pilots dont understand It is my understanding that this is a DPS fit CNR.
Forge Trader	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:23:00 - [11] Wow, skills. Cruise missiles 3? No cruise specialization? Mediocre support skills? What did you expect?
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:25:00 - [12] CML I's blow. Sell the Pithi Lg Booster, DG Shield Amp and those Invuln Fields and get some CN launchers. With 3 CN BCS (and two PDS IIs filling out the lows), my ROF is just over 7 seconds. Takes 7 to 8 volleys with standard cruise missiles. At that ROF, the amount of volleys becomes moot. I run the two Pithi small SB setup, with T2 Hardeners/Amps in the other mids. Only time I ever went into armor is when I fitted an AB instead of an extra hardener. Fixed that easily enough with an armor repper when back in station. Yeah, you need to skill up too. The Drake is a passive tanker's dream, there no other T1 ship that comes even close, or any T1 or faction BS either for that matter. I like the CNR as a ship-killing machine and consider my gank as the best part of my tank. Flights of t2 light and med drones also help, as well as a drone link augmentor in the last high slot. Good luck, keep your eyes peeled in the contracts section, CN cruise launchers fluctuate wildly, going from 35m to 60m every other week it seems.
Terminus Vindictus Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Tavers It is my understanding that this is a DPS fit CNR. It (kinda) is, but you have LOLfit skills to match. You should know by now that a ship by itself doesn't do much without the skills to go with it. And, yes, 'Arbalest' launchers increase your ROF, but are you not understanding that higher ROF increase your DPS? What part of Damage Per Second (i.e. DPS) don't you think might have something to do with Missiles Launched Per Second (i.e. ROF)?
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:33:00 - [14] If you are spending cash repairing, you are definitely doing something wrong. You should never get into armor... ever. The Drake has an awesome tank, no doubt, but the CNR tanks much differently and takes some getting used to. Cruise Launcher I's are teh fail, get arbalests at the least. You may be surprised to find out how cheap the cruise version is compared to the Heavy. You will find a substantial difference in dps with them. Also, with the stacking penalty, your 4th BCU isn't adding much. You would be better with a cap flux coil or 2 which will help your capacitor sustain your tank. I think if you get T2 drones and better drone skills, smaller ships will not be a problem. You can drop the rigor rigs and put in CCCs. This will also help your cap sustain your active tank. Anyway, here is my fit which I never have any problems with. Highs: 7 arbalest cruise launchers Drone link augmentor Mids: CN shield boost amp XL shield booster II 2 T2 mission specific shield hardner 1 invul field II PWNAGE Lows: 3 BCS II 2 Cap Flux Coil II Rigs: 3 CCCs Drones: T2 Hammers and Hobs
Kinroi Alari Gallente Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Ocularis Inferno	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Gavin DeVries I started out with Arbalest cruise launchers and ballistic control system IIs. Now I have a full rack of Caldari Navy cruise launcher and BCS. It makes a difference. At only 4 million each, there's no real reason to use lower than Arbalest cruise launchers. What he said; I strongly recommend the Arbalests, then Caldari Navy cruise launchers (and BCS). You may also want to drop the 4th BCS (diminishing returns). I do tend to follow the standard cruise missile hierarchy: * Caldari Navy * 'Arbalest' * XT-9000 * 'Limos' * 'Malkuth' But the Arbalests are cheap, giving you your best bank for the buck (ISK?) initially. Do you have implants to boost your missile damage?
Meniria	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:33:00 - [16] Originally by: Tavers Edited by: Tavers on 22/06/2009 19:20:23 Edited by: Tavers on 22/06/2009 19:19:54 Originally by: Gin G Science and Trade Institute from 2009.04.29 06:16 thats why you are diserpointed theres no chance you would have the skills to effectivley use a CNR let alone a normal raven yet If I was posting from my main, sure.. Don't arbalest launchers just increase ROF?? Your point?
Tavers	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:35:00 - [17] Alright, thanks all. I guess all that's left to do is AFK in the station for a few months while my skills catch up.
Scrwloose	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:36:00 - [18] Originally by: Tavers Don't arbalest launchers just increase ROF?? Yes arbalest have higher ROF, therefore increasing DPS. Arbalest: Rate of fire 17.60 sec (unmodified by skills or BCS) Cruise Launcher I: Rate of fire 22.00 sec With decent skills and a few BCS, you can take the arbalest under 10 seconds, and will definitely see a difference until you can train up for T2's. Otherwise, I normally switch back and forth between my Drake and my Raven for missions, depending on the sheer number of BS in the particular mission. The drake pwns the BC and cruisers much faster, so if there are swarms of these and just a few BS, stick with the drake for time/speed purposes.
Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Forge Trader Cruise missiles 3? No cruise specialization? Mediocre support skills? What did you expect? Cruise Specialization only affects T2 cruiser launchers, for the CNR, it's not worth it. Learning time is better spent if you divert that to T2 torps. His missile skill's fairly decent, the difference would be noticeable if he bumps them to 4 AND switches to Arbalest launchers. The next noticeable upgrade is switching CN launchers.
Tagami Wasp	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:45:00 - [20] His missile skills are horrible for a CNR gank fit. I would suggest to the OP to stay a bit more in the Drake, or get Faction Launchers and fit according to above posts, drone skills is a must, no reason to spend missiles to kill frigs.
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Tavers Alright, thanks all. I guess all that's left to do is AFK in the station for a few months while my skills catch up. Not at all. I started L4s without great skills. Sure they took awhile, but they still payed better than the best L3s. I've been working my support skills up slowly but surely, and my mission time has dropped slowly but surely. Just get some arbalets, try a mission or two, then come back.
Orree Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.06.22 20:06:00 - [22] Disappointed? With those missile skills? I'm not surprised. "How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.06.22 20:07:00 - [23] equipment wont compensate for crappy skills
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.22 20:26:00 - [24] Originally by: Tavers Caldari Battleship : 4 Cruise Missiles : 3 Launcher Operation : 5 Rapid Launch : 4 Target Nav Prediction : 3 Projection : 3 Bombardment : 3 Cruise Specialization : 0 Warhead Upgrades : 2 Perfect Skills? No. I still feel like I am under performing for those skills though. Your BC/heavy missiles for a comparison?
Tavers	Posted - 2009.06.22 20:29:00 - [25] Ok, I emptied my wallet and got 7xCN Cruise Launchers. I am now totally broke :( (Also got a T1 large armor repper <_<) From what I've seen 7 seconds off volley is extremely nice, I don't know how I missed this before. I am now about where I wanted to be for L4s(to start). Now, my only question is where you would prioritize skills from here. You all are saying that my skills suck, but none offer any direction for improvement. I have about 8 days until T2 drones, or I can work up Cruise missile 5 and specialization. The reason my missile skills are so low, is that I have poured my skills into shield skills for the drake.
Kinroi Alari Gallente Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Ocularis Inferno	Posted - 2009.06.22 20:33:00 - [26] Originally by: Tavers Now, my only question is where you would prioritize skills from here. You all are saying that my skills suck, but none offer any direction for improvement. I have about 8 days until T2 drones, or I can work up Cruise missile 5 and specialization. The reason my missile skills are so low, is that I have poured my skills into shield skills for the drake. Skip the cruise missile specialization -- I'd focus on the drone skills. -- Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere...
Kinroi Alari Gallente Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Ocularis Inferno	Posted - 2009.06.22 20:39:00 - [27] Originally by: Kinroi Alari Skip the cruise missile specialization -- I'd focus on the drone skills. Hmm... And after you have good frigate / cruiser killer drones, then work on your supporting missile skills. Also, I mentioned implants. Go to the Item Database and take a look at the "Skill Hardwiring," and under the various slots check out the missile implants (or shield, according to taste). Personally, for my Empire-based mission runner I stick with the intermediate implants (+3%, etc); but I haven't analyzed the best bang-for-the-buck. -- Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere...
Tavers	Posted - 2009.06.22 20:52:00 - [28] Edited by: Tavers on 22/06/2009 20:53:04 Originally by: Kinroi Alari Skip the cruise missile specialization -- I'd focus on the drone skills. So then... Cruise 5 Scout Drone 5 Racial Drone 5 Target Nav Prediction 5 Guided Precision 5 Warhead Upgrades 5
Kerfira	Posted - 2009.06.22 20:53:00 - [29] You don't mention your shield, cap and fitting skills..... These should be at 4 or more across the board. Especially the fitting skills for you I think. You should NEVER need to waste slots on things like co-processors! If you can't use T2 drones with decent drone support skills, that fancy ship of yours is likely to die when you encounter scrambling frigates, especially with such a weak tank (only 4 mids allocated to tank with weak skills is just....). Sounds like you're thinking money can compensate for skills, but for a Raven that only goes so far.... A Drake can be piloted safely through L3's with mediocre skills, but a Raven in L4's takes reasonably good skills. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Moneyhungryhoe Dude Where's My Caracal	Posted - 2009.06.22 20:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Tavers Ok, I emptied my wallet and got 7xCN Cruise Launchers. I am now totally broke :( (Also got a T1 large armor repper <_<) From what I've seen 7 seconds off volley is extremely nice, I don't know how I missed this before. I am now about where I wanted to be for L4s(to start). Now, my only question is where you would prioritize skills from here. You are learning, and fast, good that you bought CN launchers, they're worth every penny. Learn cruise 4, then warhead upgrades 3 or 4. What's your cybernetics skill? If not 4, then train 4 asap and plug in hardwirings to increase damage and shields (play with EFT and see how much DPS increase you get with certain hardwires). Consider training cybernetics 5.

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