Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Moneyhungryhoe
Dude Where's My Caracal
|
Posted - 2009.06.22 20:56:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Moneyhungryhoe on 22/06/2009 20:58:17
Originally by: Kerfira You don't mention your shield, cap and fitting skills..... These should be at 4 or more across the board. Especially the fitting skills for you I think. You should NEVER need to waste slots on things like co-processors!
Funnily enough I have electronics 5 and need a faction co-processor to be able to fit 3 missile rigs (2 rigor, 1 flare). What skills could I improve here?
|
Tavers
|
Posted - 2009.06.22 21:01:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kerfira You don't mention your shield, cap and fitting skills..... These should be at 4 or more across the board. Especially the fitting skills for you I think. You should NEVER need to waste slots on things like co-processors!
If you can't use T2 drones with decent drone support skills, that fancy ship of yours is likely to die when you encounter scrambling frigates, especially with such a weak tank (only 4 mids allocated to tank with weak skills is just....).
Shield Operation/Compensation/Manipulation/Upgrades/Management are all 5s.
Energy Management/Engineering/Energy Grid Upgrades/Energy Systems Operation/Electronics are all 4.
I needed the co-processor to squeeze in the last BCU 2. If I take the advice here I will drop the BCU2 and Co processor for a cap flux coil or 2.
Shield skills aren't bad, just too many points in there too early I guess.
|
Sturmwolke
Genyosha Legion
|
Posted - 2009.06.22 21:16:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 22/06/2009 21:21:42
Originally by: Tavers Edited by: Tavers on 22/06/2009 20:53:04 So then... Cruise 5 Scout Drone 5 Racial Drone 5 Target Nav Prediction 5 Guided Precision 5 Warhead Upgrades 5
Not talking about shield and support skills, you'd be more effective in the short term upgrading only :
Cruise Missiles : 3 > 4 Warhead Upgrades : 2 > 3 Missile Projection : 3 > 4 Guided Missile Precision : ? > 4
However, upgrade to T2 light drones before anything else. Get the key Drone Interfacing > 4 and Gallante Drone Specialization > 2 with all the rest of the drone support skills at a very minimium 3.
Then, finally start work on buffing the related missile skills to 5, starting with Cruise 5, Rapid Launch 5 and Caldari Battleship 5 in that order.
|
Tavers
|
Posted - 2009.06.22 21:23:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Sturmwolke Edited by: Sturmwolke on 22/06/2009 21:21:42
Originally by: Tavers Edited by: Tavers on 22/06/2009 20:53:04 So then... Cruise 5 Scout Drone 5 Racial Drone 5 Target Nav Prediction 5 Guided Precision 5 Warhead Upgrades 5
Not talking about shield and support skills, you'd be more effective in the short term upgrading only :
Cruise Missiles : 3 > 4 Warhead Upgrades : 2 > 3 Missile Projection : 3 > 4 Guided Missile Precision : ? > 4
However, upgrade to T2 light drones before anything else. Get the key Drone Interfacing > 4 and Gallante Drone Specialization > 2 with all the rest of the drone support skills at a very minimium 3.
Then, finally start work on buffing the related missile skills to 5, starting with Cruise 5, Rapid Launch 5 and Caldari Battleship 5 in that order.
Thank you for the very specific advice :)
|
Jita Spook
|
Posted - 2009.06.22 21:24:00 -
[35]
One thing that no one mentioned look in the electronics section of the skills and train up the target painiting skills
Frequency modulation: Adds fall off 10% per level Target painting: painter uses less cap and its prereq Signature focusing: 5% more "paint" effect per level Long distance jamming: 10% to optimal range per level (it really should change to EW instead of jamming bit confusing)
Hope it helps ppl tend to forget about this
|
Pantload
The Underpants Gnomes Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2009.06.22 21:27:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Moneyhungryhoe
Funnily enough I have electronics 5 and need a faction co-processor to be able to fit 3 missile rigs (2 rigor, 1 flare). What skills could I improve here?
Launcher Rigging skill helps offset the cpu penalty that the launcher rigs place on your launchers. Also, 4x Ballistic Control is not a waste even with the diminishing returns of the 3rd and 4ths ones. However, the T2's have a really high cpu requirement. You may be forced to drop to 3x Ballistic Control II until such time as you upgrade to faction ones ( they save a lot of cpu and add damage ).
Cheers, PL
|
Moneyhungryhoe
Dude Where's My Caracal
|
Posted - 2009.06.22 22:10:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sturmwolke Edited by: Sturmwolke on 22/06/2009 21:21:42
However, upgrade to T2 light drones before anything else. Get the key Drone Interfacing > 4 and Gallante Drone Specialization > 2 with all the rest of the drone support skills at a very minimium 3.
Then, finally start work on buffing the related missile skills to 5, starting with Cruise 5, Rapid Launch 5 and Caldari Battleship 5 in that order.
T2 drones are absolutely not neccessary IMHO, drones 5 and drone interfacing 3 is more than enough, kills all frigs fast. Gank skills are the ones you should concentrate on.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.06.22 23:04:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kinroi Alari
Originally by: Gavin DeVries I started out with Arbalest cruise launchers and ballistic control system IIs. Now I have a full rack of Caldari Navy cruise launcher and BCS. It makes a difference. At only 4 million each, there's no real reason to use lower than Arbalest cruise launchers.
What he said; I strongly recommend the Arbalests, then Caldari Navy cruise launchers (and BCS). You may also want to drop the 4th BCS (diminishing returns).
I do tend to follow the standard cruise missile hierarchy: * Caldari Navy * 'Arbalest' * XT-9000 * 'Limos' * 'Malkuth'
But the Arbalests are cheap, giving you your best bank for the buck (ISK?) initially. Do you have implants to boost your missile damage?
anything less then 4 bcus is fail, the 4th adds ~6.5% damage, and well no other lowslot item improves your damage. the 5th slot sure go ahead and fit a damage control/cap flux.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.06.22 23:05:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tavers Alright, thanks all.
I guess all that's left to do is AFK in the station for a few months while my skills catch up.
a week should suffice.
|
g0ggalor
|
Posted - 2009.06.22 23:32:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Tavers
Originally by: Kinroi Alari
Skip the cruise missile specialization -- I'd focus on the drone skills.
So then...
Cruise 5 Scout Drone 5 Racial Drone 5 Target Nav Prediction 5 Guided Precision 5 Warhead Upgrades 5
You are forgetting drone interfacing. This skill adds 20% drone damage per level. Get it up to 4 as fast as you can, and eventually get it to 5. Drone nav and drone durability should be at 4 as well, but 3 isn't half bad if you want to save a few days training something else. |
|
Sturmwolke
Genyosha Legion
|
Posted - 2009.06.22 23:52:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Moneyhungryhoe T2 drones are absolutely not neccessary IMHO, drones 5 and drone interfacing 3 is more than enough, kills all frigs fast. Gank skills are the ones you should concentrate on.
50% more damage and increased drone control range (that comes from T2 lights and Drones Interfacing 4). All that at around 6-7 days extra training. Worth it?
Of course, you can run it with minimal skills to get the job done as long as you're very careful with the mission aggro. However, don't regret that decision if you lose your ship in a momentary lapse where 2-3 elite frigates are pegging you down and you're down to 50% armor/shields and running out of cap.
I would not suggest minimal drone skills to L4 newbies since it's a component that's very critical for their survival. |
Dracthera
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.06.23 00:12:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Sturmwolke
Originally by: Moneyhungryhoe T2 drones are absolutely not neccessary IMHO, drones 5 and drone interfacing 3 is more than enough, kills all frigs fast. Gank skills are the ones you should concentrate on.
50% more damage and increased drone control range (that comes from T2 lights and Drones Interfacing 4). All that at around 6-7 days extra training. Worth it?
I would not suggest minimal drone skills to L4 newbies since it's a component that's very critical for their survival.
I agree. T1 drones have a hard time killing those elite frigates that are webbing/scramming yous ship, and if you get in trouble you're screwed. If you're going to fly a BS into missions, T2 drone skills are a necessity not a luxury because your main weapons will have a hard time with the small ships. It's a different story in a BC hull because your primary weapons can do decent damage against frigs so you don't have to rely on drones for those.
Apto Quod Ususfructus |
Aeneidae
Caldari Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.06.23 06:32:00 -
[43]
As a noob Raven pilot, i found that switching from Paradise to Wrath cruise missiles also helped ALLOT in my damage.
|
Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2009.06.23 07:20:00 -
[44]
Get rid of the Invulns, switch to rat-specific hardeners. The extra resistance means you won't be breaking your tank so fast. Remember to pulse that booster: it might be left on while you kill the first two battleships, but don't let your cap get below 30%. Use all your shield as a buffer to help protect your capacitor. If the shield gets below 30% you lose the shield's innate recharge (as tiny as it is) and will rely on capacitor more. Once I've killed the first couple of battleships, my CNR can passive-tank most missions.
Get rid of the NOS, you should be killing the battleships before they get in range of your NOS, or else you should be fitting siege launchers and using torps.
Others have already told you to upgrade your missile launchers, and you have! Now train that Launcher Rigging skill up so that you have CPU to spare. Then get rid of that coprocessor.
I use Flare, Rigor and Catalyst rigs: 10% more damage overall, I can kill cruisers with one volley, frigates with drones, battlecruisers take a couple of volleys. Between the Rigor and PWNAGE I have signature radius covered, between Flare and Target Navigation Prediction I have target speed covered for most NPCs.
If you are ever in the situation that you can actually make use of that NOS, you're doing something wrong. Heck, leave that slot empty so you can ditch the coprocessor and use a DC II.
|
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.06.23 08:15:00 -
[45]
Your setup is going in right direction, altho as was pointed out one can do somewhat better within 1 bil budget. It's matter of preference ofc. For 1 bil I would have went for cap injector fueled CNR with CN BCU's and arbalest launchers and XL T2 booster with your skills and also dumped in there few 3% hardwires.
Anyway - as your setup is going in good direction there is several possibilities for your disapointment (1) High expectations - trick is - it is more effective but not 10x more effective (ie 1 bil vs 100 mil). You also spent most of your isk on tank thus from mission completion time perspective is kinda 'wasted'. (2) Mediocre skills - they do make difference, so when you compare your mission completion times against pilots with 70 mil SP who are not flying capital ships then it's easy to think you are doing something wrong while you are actually at right track just half way there. (3) Tackitks used - it is possible that you might not have adabted your tacktiks to CNR. It's flying style is different from drake if you use gank fit. In my opinion how you fly ship in missions is at least as relevant as actual setup you are using.
Few suggestions to improve your situation. Arbalest launchers. 3% hardwires (at least RoF and damage ones). If you are willing to go higher micromangement route then cap injector + XL launcher - sell the Pith large and get CN BCU's instead and rigor rigs.
When you hit good missile skills then it might be worth considering also torpedoes. They are good but take very good skills to pull off in CNR, as it's damn tight fit. Stuff like AWU 5 and so on so it's better to stay cruise if low skilled.
|
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.06.23 08:20:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
anything less then 4 bcus is fail, the 4th adds ~6.5% damage, and well no other lowslot item improves your damage. the 5th slot sure go ahead and fit a damage control/cap flux.
I'm with Chainsaw on this one. 4 BCU's are quite reasonable for CNR. I myself prefer that lowslot passive signal booster in 5th slot. Adds me extra target and 20% targeting range (so with good skills you can lock out to ~120 km). That way with auto targeter one can lock max 12 targets. Altho last 'free' hislot is often usede also for tractor beam to haul in mission specific items like damsel.
|
Talio ZomB
|
Posted - 2009.06.23 10:21:00 -
[47]
DG invuls,
yet you use t1 basic cruise,
with those skills and those launchers, I think my drake can out dps your cnr
|
Mystafyre
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.06.23 10:46:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Tavers Edited by: Tavers on 22/06/2009 19:20:23 Edited by: Tavers on 22/06/2009 19:19:54
Originally by: Gin G Science and Trade Institute from 2009.04.29 06:16
thats why you are diserpointed theres no chance you would have the skills to effectivley use a CNR let alone a normal raven yet
If I was posting from my main, sure..
Don't arbalest launchers just increase ROF??
Yes they do and that increases the DPS.. |
GyokZoli
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.06.23 12:10:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Tavers Caldari Battleship : 4
Cruise Missiles : 3 Launcher Operation : 5 Rapid Launch : 4 Target Nav Prediction : 3 Projection : 3 Bombardment : 3 Cruise Specialization : 0 Warhead Upgrades : 2
Perfect Skills? No. I still feel like I am under performing for those skills though.
1. you have poor skills, you must have level 4 in all skills then you'll have good enough skills 2. you are using meta 0 launchers (it's even worse than having poor skills since arbalest cruise launchers are really cheap these days)
|
Tavers
|
Posted - 2009.06.23 13:10:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tavers Ok, I emptied my wallet and got 7xCN Cruise Launchers. I am now totally broke :( (Also got a T1 large armor repper <_<)
Last 5-8 posts are fail, read thread lol
|
|
Lilith Krell
|
Posted - 2009.06.23 16:58:00 -
[51]
Can I has your stuff?
|
Maverick Aeldrin
|
Posted - 2009.06.24 17:31:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Tavers Ok, I emptied my wallet and got 7xCN Cruise Launchers. I am now totally broke :( (Also got a T1 large armor repper <_<)
Ok so. heres what an Active Shield tank looks like:
Lows: Damage Control II Mids: Shield Booster II, Shield Boost Amplifier, Invulnerability Field II, 1-2 Rat specific Hardners
The shield booster for a battleship can be Large if you have enough cap to make it stable, or X-Large for short bursts. (Or Faction Medium for strong stable)
Then: any spare low slots you either use Power Diagnostic System II's or Weapon Damage Upgrades any spare mid slots you either use cap rechargers, more hardners, or an Afterburner (MWD doesn't work for many missions)
Cap booster in mids frees up the lows for damage mods at the cost of duration based on cargo space
rigs: almost always recommended Capacitor Control Circuits for increased cap recharge |
Trina Forrest
|
Posted - 2009.06.24 18:08:00 -
[53]
Simply put your build is ridiculious... ok then! flame stops there, now its time for help. This is your current build and whats wrong with it.
HIGH] 7xCruise Missile Launcher I ; Mission specific ammo 1xHeavy NOS ABSOLUTELY need t2 launchers BECAUSE of missile specialization, also take off the nos you dont need it ffs.
[MED] Pith B-Type Large Booster Good booster, but x-large is do-able simi-cap stable DG Shield Boost Amp (good like this one) 2xDG Invulns (use caldari my self but this will do) PWNAGE Painter (why? get it off your ship your not using torps) Cap Recharger II (more on this later)
[LOW] 4xBCU II (4 is 1 too many) 1xCo-Processor II (this is because of your fail fit, you wont need it)
[RIGS] 2xRigor (uhhh no...) 1xCCC
[DRONES] 5x Hammerhead I (these help, but t2 is nice as well)
Ok... so heres were we can improve... My CNR fit...
high: 7x cruise missile launcher t2
mid: 2x caldari navy invuln field 2x shield boost amp 1x cap recharger t2 X-large xs-l emergency shield overload 1
Low: capacitor flux coil t2 3x BCU t2 power diagnostic system t2
rigs: 2x CCC 1X ancillary current router ok so my build and why:
In a nut shell, high slots are a given, now with the mids I use CN invul field because 2x of them are equal to a passive tank omni tank. With the 2x shield boost amp I take into account more per boost= less boosts you will have to do which means less cap consumption needed. The reason is most missions are just alpha dps, you only need to boost long enough to get enough down so you can toggle your boost. The rest is self explanitory, besides the rigs, I have the 10% grid rig when I equipe torps when I know im going into level 5 missions.
Currently I have perfect eng skills(yes all level 5) and level 5 cruise level 4 specialization. to compare, I have 15k shields and I do 600dps or 3650 volly damage. I drop most mission bs with about 3-4 vollys.
I hope this helps.
|
Gavin DeVries
|
Posted - 2009.06.24 19:03:00 -
[54]
You absolutely do NOT need T2 cruise launchers. T2 torps, yes. Cruise, no. CN launchers are better than T2 launchers, because the T2 ammo sucks.
Why fit a PWNAGE? Well, to help you do full damage on any cruisers, fast battlecruisers, or very fast battleships. Same with the Rigor rigs. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Meylota LeFey
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.06.24 22:19:00 -
[55]
You've already received some great advice. I know for myself when I went from my vanilla Raven (which I could do any L4 in easily enough, including the AE4 bonus room) to a CNR, I was surprised that I wasn't WTFPWNBBQ'ing the missions. I fit it the same as the regular Raven, but figured the additional launcher was going to make it "that much faster." Since we mostly deal in volleys though. . . . occasionally something took 1 volley less than before, but otherwise the killing speed was pretty much the same.
I was flabbergasted and felt I'd wasted my isk on the CNR. But, I had it so I kept using it. Over time I traded in my Arby launchers for CN ones, then also traded in the BCS II's for CN ones also. Doing that made a noticeable difference, and I can see that you've also seen the difference with the CN launchers vs the CML I's you were originally using.
Really I odn't have anything to add to the advice you've already received -- get your Cruise Missile skill to 4, get the other missile support skills to 4, then get T2 drones and Drone Interfacing to 4 also.
FWIW, I only carry light drones anymore -- 8 Warrior II's and 7 Hobgoblin II's. I find the medium drones take longer to kill frigs than the lights do, due to their tracking issues. With Guided Missile Precision 4, a rigor rig, a PWNAGE painter with Signal Focusing 4, and Target Navigation Prediction 4 I can hit cruisers for max damage and will 1-2 volley them, which is also way faster than medium drones can kill cruisers.... I found I wasn't even launching my medium drones anymore, so I now only carry lights "with spares."
I go with the Warrior II's since they have a very fast flight time and work well vs Angels, and I carry the Hobgoblins as the generic ones that work well vs all the other enemies due to their higher damage.
good luck!
|
g0ggalor
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 16:05:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Trina Forrest ABSOLUTELY need t2 launchers BECAUSE of missile specialization, also take off the nos you dont need it ffs.
You don't need T2. You already have the CN launchers which are about as good as you can get.
Originally by: Trina Forrest PWNAGE Painter (why? get it off your ship your not using torps)
I've experimented with a pwnage on my cnr and found that it is well worth it of you don't have any tank issues. While BCs usually pop no problem, regular cruisers can take awhile, but with the pwnage painter they melt like butta.
|
Leather Jack
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 16:54:00 -
[57]
Originally by: g0ggalor While BCs usually pop no problem, regular cruisers can take awhile, but with the pwnage painter they melt like butta.
I second this. "Butta"-melting cruisers is 4tw.
Painter r0xx0rz. |
jhon whang
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 19:01:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Pantload
Originally by: Moneyhungryhoe
Funnily enough I have electronics 5 and need a faction co-processor to be able to fit 3 missile rigs (2 rigor, 1 flare). What skills could I improve here?
Launcher Rigging skill helps offset the cpu penalty that the launcher rigs place on your launchers. Also, 4x Ballistic Control is not a waste even with the diminishing returns of the 3rd and 4ths ones. However, the T2's have a really high cpu requirement. You may be forced to drop to 3x Ballistic Control II until such time as you upgrade to faction ones ( they save a lot of cpu and add damage ).
Cheers, PL
Weapon Upgrades 5 also decreases the cpu need for launchers, so a good skill to get soon.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.06.25 20:58:00 -
[59]
Simply put your build is ridiculious... ok then! flame stops there, now its time for help. This is your current build and whats wrong with it.
high: 7x cruise missile launcher t2, Caldari navy is better, but t2 isn't the worst idea.
mid: 2x caldari navy invuln field, where the hell is the pwnage? 2x shield boost amp 1x cap recharger t2, if you are going to use a midslot for cap might as well use a cap injector. X-large xs-l emergency shield overload 1, meta4 shield booster really, with 2 cn invluns?
Low: capacitor flux coil t2 3x BCU t2, really needs a 4th bcu power diagnostic system t2, why the hell would you fit a pds, a flux will give you more cap
rigs: 2x CCC 1X ancillary current router, superfail rigs. need at least 2 rigor rigs.
all tanky no ganky makes for a sad panda
|
Vaneshi SnowCrash
|
Posted - 2009.06.26 08:30:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Vaneshi SnowCrash on 26/06/2009 08:32:32 I have to admit when I yoinked a standardish CNR fit from battleclinic it left me a little... wanting.
After a bit of tweaking I came up with this beastie:
-- High --- 7x'Arbalest' Cruise, Mission specific ammo. Occasionally CN faction. 1x Drone Link Aug
-- Mid -- 1x Heavy Cap Booster II + 5x Cap Boost 800's. 1x Emergency CL-5 XL booster thingie. 4x T2 Hardners, missions specific. - Low - 4x Ballistic Constrol II's 1x Capacitor Flux Coil II
- Cargo - 10x Cap Boost 800 Charges. Rest is missiles.
I also tend to do 2x Heavies, 2x Medium, 1x Light drone launch. Kills frigates nicely and is the max DPS launch the Raven can do. Unless I know a mission is a frigate/cruiser-fest in which case the normal 5/5 is taken.
All told EFT tells me I'm doing around 520dps or so and I couldn't say if that's "good" but it chews through everything I've thrown at it PvE wise. My skills aren't brilliant.
The Cap Boosters are there for those annoying times when you need to keep the booster running for a while, 90% of the time I don't need them but when I do, it's kind of like overheating, you're greatful the things are there.
Yes that is 4 damage mods. Yes the stacking penalty is annoying but the 4th does give an appriciable boost to damage. 5th doesn't according to EFT.
Flux Coil is just there because I used the old "perma-boost with damage mod" fit as a template and haven't found anything more useful than it.
And not stupidly expensive either to my mind, I'm sure using faction items could get it going quicker but I'm happy. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |