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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
2347
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Posted - 2012.05.18 18:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
For as long as EVE has been around, players have formed alliances both formal and informal to fend off threats and defend space turf and honor. Inferno will completely revamp the whole framework that helps you manage your wars and will hopefully support you all in creating plenty of heart warming, violent memories <3
CCP SoniClover has written a blog about the new Ally System that will allow you to formally draft others to help crush your enemies. Check if out right here and be sure to leave us your feedback. CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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Avila Cracko
357
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Posted - 2012.05.18 18:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
first truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. |
Metis Laxon
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
32
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Posted - 2012.05.18 18:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
second |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
2295
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Posted - 2012.05.18 18:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
you're all my allies, true story! CCP Punkturis | EVE UI Programmer | @CCP_Punkturis |
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CCP Paradox
268
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Posted - 2012.05.18 18:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
All the allies! CCP Paradox | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Super Friends @CCP_Paradox |
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Mashie Saldana
Veto. Veto Corp
515
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Posted - 2012.05.18 18:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quick , bring out more blue paint! Dominique Vasilkovsky Mashie Saldana Monica Foulkes |
Sgt Napalm
Veto. Veto Corp
4
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Posted - 2012.05.18 18:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Reserved
I dislike the poster above. |
ShadowMaster
39
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Just for some clarification.
Red Federation is in a mutual war with Blue Republic. Some crazy fool declares war on Blue Republic. Can Red Federation come to the aid of Blue Republic as an ally?
From what I can tell your rules section does not say anything against that, but I just wanted to make sure.
Quote:A corporation/alliance cannot join as an ally against a corporation/alliance they are already at war with. X is at war with Y X cannot join Z as an ally against Y
Quote:Similarly, if youGÇÖre already an ally against someone, you cannot declare a separate war against them or join as an ally against them again. Basically, ally status counts as being at war with the aggressor corp/alliance, so anything that would create a new war state between them cannot happen X is an ally of Z against Y X cannot declare war on Y
So yea, neither of those negates our situation. |
Ranshe
Blackwater Company Frozen Synapse
32
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Now that we (will) have a functional ally system, could you please apply it to the Faction Warfare? It's weird that we're at war with the Minmatar *and* Gallente, but the Caldari remain as neutrals - and this is a perfect place to put this in. Of course this should be unbreakable, just like the war between factions is. |
Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
80
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
"The only way for a mutual war to end is if one side surrenders."
A little, tiny bit worried about that. What if both sides want to end the war, but neither is willing to surrender to the other? I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me. |
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Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
134
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pl0x get the crimewatch dudes to at least implement the RR docking aggression system ASAP, otherwise, why get allies when neutrals can help with no risk? We have a blog, it is terrible. How to fix Bounty Hunting |
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
134
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mechael wrote:"The only way for a mutual war to end is if one side surrenders."
A little, tiny bit worried about that. What if both sides want to end the war, but neither is willing to surrender to the other?
Ask Israel and Palestine. We have a blog, it is terrible. How to fix Bounty Hunting |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
549
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
So defenders can bring in as many allies as they want for no cost other than the fee that the ally requests?
You realize that what this does is make it even less attractive for the Average Joe corp to declare war on people they have legitimate grievances with since they will be able to bring in an infinite number of allies and the attacker has no means to respond.
Rather than doing something to address the fact that wars are "underutilized" all this and the cost changes does is draw an even greater dividing line between people who do wars as their primary form of gameplay and everyone else in highsec by making starting a war so undesirable for anyone whose primary form of gameplay isn't wars that it will never be worth declaring war on someone who's done you wrong.
Post expansion war will be an even less viable option for 99% of highsec inhabitants than it is now. This expansion is a joke, and the advertisements that refer to it as "war fueled" are fraudulent. |
wallenbergaren
University of Caille Gallente Federation
43
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
What happens if your corp joins an alliance you're allied against? |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
41
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
My biggest problem is that it doesn't cost a defender anything to bring allies into a war. What this will lead to is groups like mine joining wars as allies for free. All this will do is deter war decs and wreck the merc market.
What you really need to do is put in an ISK fee that goes to CONCORD for each ally, and increases for each ally you bring in (preferably, with the same mechanic/multiplier of war decs). This will encourage people to only spend allies that are worth the money (ie good mercs/dec corps) rather than bringing in any old corp off the street.
This also has the added advantage of limiting allies based on the ISK of the defenders, similar to how the ISK of the aggressors is the limit to the number of wars they can be in. |
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
22
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Congratulations on killing off the war system in Eve Online. I don't know why I'm bothering to post since you seem to have completely ignored the feedback in the "War, Modules, and Super Friends" thread, but here goes.
There is no limit to the number of allies you can have. Given the new cost of war, every (large) high sec war deccing corp is going to be an ally in as many wars as possible for free. This will rapidly result in no one in their right mind war deccing anyone (and ruin the mercenary market). /thread
This expansion sucks, and is in no way "war themed." Please consider the mountains of legitimate feedback you are getting in these threads, and please take note of the fact that it is overwhelmingly negative.
EDIT: The solution proposed in the post above mine (essentially a concord tax on allies) is a good one, and also adds a new ISK sink to the game. Another one would be to limit a decced corp to calling one (or maybe two or three, or make it vary depending upon the size of the ally) ally per week that the dec is active. Additionally, unless you want the prices of mercenaries to nosedive towards zero, you should put some form of hardcap on the number of wars a corp can be called into as an ally. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
229
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
ShadowMaster wrote:Just for some clarification. Red Federation is in a mutual war with Blue Republic. Some crazy fool declares war on Blue Republic. Can Red Federation come to the aid of Blue Republic as an ally? From what I can tell your rules section does not say anything against that, but I just wanted to make sure. Quote:A corporation/alliance cannot join as an ally against a corporation/alliance they are already at war with. X is at war with Y X cannot join Z as an ally against Y Quote:Similarly, if youGÇÖre already an ally against someone, you cannot declare a separate war against them or join as an ally against them again. Basically, ally status counts as being at war with the aggressor corp/alliance, so anything that would create a new war state between them cannot happen X is an ally of Z against Y X cannot declare war on Y So yea, neither of those negates our situation.
Yes it does.
Red is at war with Blue Green declares war on Blue Red CANNOT ally with Blue as that's a new war state (ally) between Red and Blue However, Red can declare war on Green if they so choose |
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
136
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote: Post expansion war will be an even less viable option for 99% of highsec inhabitants than it is now. This expansion is a joke, and the advertisements that refer to it as "war fueled" are fraudulent.
I think your estimate is a bit off. I think a large part of what the expansion's purpose was to correct a lot of the problems with the current mechanics. (except they forgot neutral RR cough cough)
If someone screwed you really hard, you'd pay the 50M+ to get get them anyway. If it isn't worth 50M they must not have pissed you off THAT bad. It's what, a couple level 4's? It shouldn't be that bad, unless the guy cleaned the corp wallet out and you used it as your personal wallet... then your prob screwed regardless.
We have a blog, it is terrible. How to fix Bounty Hunting |
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
22
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote: Post expansion war will be an even less viable option for 99% of highsec inhabitants than it is now. This expansion is a joke, and the advertisements that refer to it as "war fueled" are fraudulent.
I think your estimate is a bit off. I think a large part of what the expansion's purpose was to correct a lot of the problems with the current mechanics. (except they forgot neutral RR cough cough) If someone screwed you really hard, you'd pay the 50M+ to get get them anyway. If it isn't worth 50M they must not have pissed you off THAT bad. It's what, a couple level 4's? It shouldn't be that bad, unless the guy cleaned the corp wallet out and you used it as your personal wallet... then your prob screwed regardless. And you will then be blobbed into station by the dozen corps that are called as an ally and are looking for good fights and free targets. The price IS an issue in my opinion, but the ally system is worse. |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
44
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote: Post expansion war will be an even less viable option for 99% of highsec inhabitants than it is now. This expansion is a joke, and the advertisements that refer to it as "war fueled" are fraudulent.
I think your estimate is a bit off. I think a large part of what the expansion's purpose was to correct a lot of the problems with the current mechanics. (except they forgot neutral RR cough cough) If someone screwed you really hard, you'd pay the 50M+ to get get them anyway. If it isn't worth 50M they must not have pissed you off THAT bad. It's what, a couple level 4's? It shouldn't be that bad, unless the guy cleaned the corp wallet out and you used it as your personal wallet... then your prob screwed regardless.
It's not the ISK for the war that's the problem. The problem is that defenders can bring in unlimited allies for literally 0 ISK. So the only people who will actually declare wars are the full-time dec corps/mercs. Everyone else will either disregard or hire mercs for an offensive dec.
I can say that my alliance will be joining as many wars as we can, for 0 ISK, just for free targets. Many of the merc groups/dec corps/alliances will be doing the same thing for the free decs they'll get. |
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leich
Nocturnal Romance Fall From Heaven
29
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Avila Cracko wrote:first edit: And you know whats the funniest part about all this "war changes"? You did not solve anything. You even didn't implement the main thing that you talked about and that is commitment. Attacker can war dec without any consequence at all. And they dont have any commitment on that war, just don't pay and you are out. And defender have onle one option and that is to become ISK cow for an "Ally". Only consequence that attacker might have is that defender make war mutual (and they have only 24 hour window for that) and then look for ally to make some problems for attacker - and even that you want to remove. And easy way for attacker to remove and that problem is to quit/kill corp and make a new one. And we all know that that is no problem at all for them because 95% of attackers are griefers that grief on their alts. I don't see what you want accomplish. You only want to help griefers and screw other players?
I can't believe how ironic this post is.
it describes the exact opposite of what is wrong with current war mechanics.
For far to long they have made it easy for people to escape PVP.
CCP had the chance to fix it making it harder to avoid but the blew it with this. |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
44
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Eternal Error wrote:Burseg Sardaukar wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote: Post expansion war will be an even less viable option for 99% of highsec inhabitants than it is now. This expansion is a joke, and the advertisements that refer to it as "war fueled" are fraudulent.
I think your estimate is a bit off. I think a large part of what the expansion's purpose was to correct a lot of the problems with the current mechanics. (except they forgot neutral RR cough cough) If someone screwed you really hard, you'd pay the 50M+ to get get them anyway. If it isn't worth 50M they must not have pissed you off THAT bad. It's what, a couple level 4's? It shouldn't be that bad, unless the guy cleaned the corp wallet out and you used it as your personal wallet... then your prob screwed regardless. And you will then be blobbed into station by the dozen corps that are called as an ally and are looking for good fights and free targets. The price IS an issue in my opinion, but the ally system is worse.
The solution is easy for most situations. You put in a CONCORD fee for every ally that gets multiplied by the number of allies you bring in. This fee should be paid every week to keep them as allies in the war, and should be on the same order as a dec fee. That way, people will only pay for the groups they can afford to bring in, rather than the whole world jumping onto their decs. |
Lemming Alpha1dash1
Lemmings Online
6
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Hope you don't have to pass a Mensa test to relearn hisec wardec/pvp rules agian
Thx for putting in the effort to update the mechanics, hope it all works out, else we still got ganking |
Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
214
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Just for clarification...
If "Mining Corp" (10 members) is wardec'ed by "Evil Corp" (10 members), then... "Mining Corp" allies with "Good Guys" (300 members)... is it possible for "Evil Corp"s 10 guys to create a 1 man alt-corp, say, "Sneaky Corp"... wardec themselves with it, then call in "Bad Guys" (2000 members) to 'defend' them from their own alt, then... use "Bad Guys" in their war against all the others...?
Just want to be sure... |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
44
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hiram Alexander wrote:Just for clarification...
If "Mining Corp" (10 members) is wardec'ed by "Evil Corp" (10 members), then... "Mining Corp" allies with "Good Guys" (300 members)... is it possible for "Evil Corp"s 10 guys to create a 1 man alt-corp, say, "Sneaky Corp"... wardec themselves with it, then call in "Bad Guys" (2000 members) to 'defend' them from their own alt, then... use "Bad Guys" in their war against all the others...?
Just want to be sure...
No, it is on a per-dec basis. Meaning if you have two wars, the allies would need to be called into both wars separately. If you are the aggressor in one of the wars, no allies can be brought in to help you. |
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
136
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:Eternal Error wrote:Burseg Sardaukar wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote: Post expansion war will be an even less viable option for 99% of highsec inhabitants than it is now. This expansion is a joke, and the advertisements that refer to it as "war fueled" are fraudulent.
I think your estimate is a bit off. I think a large part of what the expansion's purpose was to correct a lot of the problems with the current mechanics. (except they forgot neutral RR cough cough) If someone screwed you really hard, you'd pay the 50M+ to get get them anyway. If it isn't worth 50M they must not have pissed you off THAT bad. It's what, a couple level 4's? It shouldn't be that bad, unless the guy cleaned the corp wallet out and you used it as your personal wallet... then your prob screwed regardless. And you will then be blobbed into station by the dozen corps that are called as an ally and are looking for good fights and free targets. The price IS an issue in my opinion, but the ally system is worse. The solution is easy for most situations. You put in a CONCORD fee for every ally that gets multiplied by the number of allies you bring in. This fee should be paid every week to keep them as allies in the war, and should be on the same order as a dec fee. That way, people will only pay for the groups they can afford to bring in, rather than the whole world jumping onto their decs.
Yes, I like that idea a ton. I missed part of the point of the original post, but I can absolutely see how this could be a problem with there being no minimum fee to accept aid (even in the form of an ISK sink). We have a blog, it is terrible. How to fix Bounty Hunting |
Kata Amentis
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
57
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
war list: Evil Pair of Ducks vs. Pair of Ducks
ally offer: In War Evil Pair of Ducks vs Pair of Ducks
... are the Evil Ducks the aggressor? am i offering assistance to the non evil ducks?
"vs" doesn't exactly show "direction"... any chance of having the aggressor and defender clearer?
at the moment you have a clear "x declared war against Y" kind of deal on the war list...
and if it's always "the one of the left is the aggressor" how do you expect newbies to know that when they open the war list for the same time? Curiosity killed the Kata...
... but being immortal he wasn't too worried about keeping a count. |
ShadowMaster
39
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:ShadowMaster wrote:Just for some clarification. Red Federation is in a mutual war with Blue Republic. Some crazy fool declares war on Blue Republic. Can Red Federation come to the aid of Blue Republic as an ally? From what I can tell your rules section does not say anything against that, but I just wanted to make sure. Quote:A corporation/alliance cannot join as an ally against a corporation/alliance they are already at war with. X is at war with Y X cannot join Z as an ally against Y Quote:Similarly, if youGÇÖre already an ally against someone, you cannot declare a separate war against them or join as an ally against them again. Basically, ally status counts as being at war with the aggressor corp/alliance, so anything that would create a new war state between them cannot happen X is an ally of Z against Y X cannot declare war on Y So yea, neither of those negates our situation. Yes it does. Red is at war with Blue Green declares war on Blue Red CANNOT ally with Blue as that's a new war state (ally) between Red and Blue However, Red can declare war on Green if they so choose
But nothing says that.
Your example of green is not covered by anything said.
The first example I gave, using green, would look like this:
Red is at war with Blue. Green declares war on Blue. Reds cannot ally with Green against Blue.
The second example, with Green, would look like this:
Red is an ally of Green against Blue. Red cannot declare war on Blue.
Neither of those covers Reds and Blues at war, and being allies against a third party. |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
2301
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kata Amentis wrote:war list: Evil Pair of Ducks vs. Pair of Ducks
ally offer: In War Evil Pair of Ducks vs Pair of Ducks
... are the Evil Ducks the aggressor? am i offering assistance to the non evil ducks?
"vs" doesn't exactly show "direction"... any chance of having the aggressor and defender clearer?
at the moment you have a clear "x declared war against Y" kind of deal on the war list...
and if it's always "the one of the left is the aggressor" how do you expect newbies to know that when they open the war list for the first time?
aggressor is always to the left and it says so when you mouse over the corp/alliance logo defender is therefore always to the right and also has a mouse hint
in the war report, aggressor is red and defender blue. CCP Punkturis | EVE UI Programmer | @CCP_Punkturis |
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Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
214
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:Hiram Alexander wrote:Just for clarification...
If "Mining Corp" (10 members) is wardec'ed by "Evil Corp" (10 members), then... "Mining Corp" allies with "Good Guys" (300 members)... is it possible for "Evil Corp"s 10 guys to create a 1 man alt-corp, say, "Sneaky Corp"... wardec themselves with it, then call in "Bad Guys" (2000 members) to 'defend' them from their own alt, then... use "Bad Guys" in their war against all the others...?
Just want to be sure... No, it is on a per-dec basis. Meaning if you have two wars, the allies would need to be called into both wars separately. If you are the aggressor in one of the wars, no allies can be brought in to help you. That's what I figured, but I've been playing long enough to see how buggy things can be occasionally, and short of testing it on Sisi myself, I'd just like to be sure that there isn't any wierd 'bug/feature' that allows an Aggressor to use 'defenders' from a different war to help in their 'main' war. If it's all 'working as intended', then cool... |
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