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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
645
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nice addition!
Now i can wardec A with my main corp B, then offer him my alt corp C as an ally and let A have it against B while my alt corp gets paid for nothing. And if i as much as convince A to "join" C in an all out assault on B and just don't log in or begin shooting A, the LOLz will be epic.
I wonder where do this CCP guys get so much naivety. They spend months building mechanics that are born dead because even a special child could figure how to abuse them in less than 5 minutes, and yet manage to feel proud about it... EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 15% Nullsec; 72% Highsec. CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.-á
CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
44
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:aggressor is always to the left and it says so when you mouse over the corp/alliance logo defender is therefore always to the right and also has a mouse hint
in the war report, aggressor is red and defender blue.
Any chance you can comment on the strong likelihood that no fee will undermine your entire merc market? Will you guys at least watch to see if what I'm saying (and other people like me who actually do decs full time) will happen? |
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
22
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Nice addition!
Now i can wardec A with my main corp B, then offer him my alt corp C as an ally and let A have it against B while my alt corp gets paid for nothing. And if i as much as convince A to "join" C in an all out assault on B and just don't log in or begin shooting A, the LOLz will be epic.
I wonder where do this CCP guys get so much naivety. They spend months building mechanics that are born dead because even a special child could figure how to abuse them in less than 5 minutes, and yet manage to feel proud about it... I'm pretty sure there will be an in game mercenary/ally feedback system to help prevent this. Obviously, calling in an ally is at your own risk and you should never blindly trust anyone. |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
2301
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:aggressor is always to the left and it says so when you mouse over the corp/alliance logo defender is therefore always to the right and also has a mouse hint
in the war report, aggressor is red and defender blue. Any chance you can comment on the strong likelihood that no fee will undermine your entire merc market? Will you guys at least watch to see if what I'm saying (and other people like me who actually do decs full time) will happen?
I'm not a game designer so I'd rather not comment on such things. CCP Punkturis | EVE UI Programmer | @CCP_Punkturis |
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Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
44
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
Eternal Error wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Nice addition!
Now i can wardec A with my main corp B, then offer him my alt corp C as an ally and let A have it against B while my alt corp gets paid for nothing. And if i as much as convince A to "join" C in an all out assault on B and just don't log in or begin shooting A, the LOLz will be epic.
I wonder where do this CCP guys get so much naivety. They spend months building mechanics that are born dead because even a special child could figure how to abuse them in less than 5 minutes, and yet manage to feel proud about it... I'm pretty sure there will be an in game mercenary/ally feedback system to help prevent this. Obviously, calling in an ally is at your own risk and you should never blindly trust anyone.
Right, but who would turn down free help in a war? Very few people. Obviously the second part of tricking them into dying is more complicated, but not terribly difficult. |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
44
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Adriel Malakai wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:aggressor is always to the left and it says so when you mouse over the corp/alliance logo defender is therefore always to the right and also has a mouse hint
in the war report, aggressor is red and defender blue. Any chance you can comment on the strong likelihood that no fee will undermine your entire merc market? Will you guys at least watch to see if what I'm saying (and other people like me who actually do decs full time) will happen? I'm not a game designer so I'd rather not comment on such things.
Can you point one of them to look this way? Because the number of holes in this mechanic are huge and I'm literally astounded that no one on the game design team saw them.
EDIT: That actually depends on which of the game designers was primarily responsible, but I won't name names. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
111
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:aggressor is always to the left and it says so when you mouse over the corp/alliance logo defender is therefore always to the right and also has a mouse hint
in the war report, aggressor is red and defender blue. Any chance you can comment on the strong likelihood that no fee will undermine your entire merc market? Will you guys at least watch to see if what I'm saying (and other people like me who actually do decs full time) will happen?
We will absolutely be monitoring this closely post-Inferno. We have implemented several metrics that make it easier for us to track what is going on in the war system and we will use the data gathered (plus of course feedback from you guys) to make adjustments to the system in the future, if needed. |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
2302
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:Adriel Malakai wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:aggressor is always to the left and it says so when you mouse over the corp/alliance logo defender is therefore always to the right and also has a mouse hint
in the war report, aggressor is red and defender blue. Any chance you can comment on the strong likelihood that no fee will undermine your entire merc market? Will you guys at least watch to see if what I'm saying (and other people like me who actually do decs full time) will happen? I'm not a game designer so I'd rather not comment on such things. Can you point one of them to look this way? Because the number of holes in this mechanic is huge and I'm literally astounded that no one on the game design team saw them. EDIT: That actually depends on which of the game designers was primarily responsible, but I won't name names.
it's 8:30 on a Friday night, I'm sure more people from my team will post here when they're available
Edit: nice posted at the same time as SoniClover CCP Punkturis | EVE UI Programmer | @CCP_Punkturis |
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Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
214
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:17:00 -
[39] - Quote
Again, just to be sure...
If a corp, say "BBC", calls for allies, and gets offers of protection from "Eurasia" and "East Asia", who are at war with each other, is it possible for "BBC" to actually accept them, and is it certain that if it can, that it won't break anything in their own mutual war? |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
44
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Adriel Malakai wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:aggressor is always to the left and it says so when you mouse over the corp/alliance logo defender is therefore always to the right and also has a mouse hint
in the war report, aggressor is red and defender blue. Any chance you can comment on the strong likelihood that no fee will undermine your entire merc market? Will you guys at least watch to see if what I'm saying (and other people like me who actually do decs full time) will happen? We will absolutely be monitoring this closely post-Inferno. We have implemented several metrics that make it easier for us to track what is going on in the war system and we will use the data gathered (plus of course feedback from you guys) to make adjustments to the system in the future, if needed.
Thank you very much for at least doing that much. I just hope you'll put in a proper fix for this when the ally system gets as heavily abused as it's looking like. |
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
646
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:19:00 -
[41] - Quote
Eternal Error wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Nice addition!
Now i can wardec A with my main corp B, then offer him my alt corp C as an ally and let A have it against B while my alt corp gets paid for nothing. And if i as much as convince A to "join" C in an all out assault on B and just don't log in or begin shooting A, the LOLz will be epic.
I wonder where do this CCP guys get so much naivety. They spend months building mechanics that are born dead because even a special child could figure how to abuse them in less than 5 minutes, and yet manage to feel proud about it... I'm pretty sure there will be an in game mercenary/ally feedback system to help prevent this. Obviously, calling in an ally is at your own risk and you should never blindly trust anyone.
Oh, sure, MercAdvisor. Based 100% on ingenuous customer reviews. EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 15% Nullsec; 72% Highsec. CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.-á
CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
44
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:it's 8:30 on a Friday night, I'm sure more people from my team will post here when they're available Edit: nice posted at the same time as SoniClover
Yeah, I always forget how late it is over there. Thanks for the quick responses though! |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
333
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:Mechael wrote:"The only way for a mutual war to end is if one side surrenders."
A little, tiny bit worried about that. What if both sides want to end the war, but neither is willing to surrender to the other? Ask Israel and Palestine.
lmao good one bro...
PLEX FOR PIZZA!
TECH iii MINNING SHIPS! |
Karl Planck
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
166
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
btw to all you cheezers talking about RR not being fixed, it is. RR'ing someone will now grant a suspect flag doing 2 things.
1) You get the aggression timer of the person your repping (no docking) 2) You become open to aggression by EVERYONE, not just the enemies of the people you are aggressing
If you don't like it, you should go and ride your Emo high-horse all the way back to WoW.
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Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
44
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:22:00 -
[45] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Oh, sure, MercAdvisor. Based 100% on ingenuous customer reviews.
Just have a link to a merc alliance's yelp page for reviews. |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
44
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
Karl Planck wrote:btw to all you cheezers talking about RR not being fixed, it is. RR'ing someone will now grant a suspect flag doing 2 things.
1) You get the aggression timer of the person your repping (no docking) 2) You become open to aggression by EVERYONE, not just the enemies of the people you are aggressing
No, that comes with the crimewatch changes which will be happening towards the end of the summer. |
Sheena Tzash
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:23:00 -
[47] - Quote
Its nice to see all these changes going into the war system and I hope the idea behind some of the restrictions is to reduce the amount of pure griefing war decs that are put onto newbie corps and chases away all the new players from the game.
It causes the agressor to think about the cost and retaliation capabilities of their opponent before they put in the dec.
The defender can still go turtle on them and wait it out or with this new system bring in some hired hands which could quite easily cost more to defend yourself than the agressors pay on the dec itself.
Just a thought on ally payment system though - I assume that they are paid as soon as the defender accepts the offer? What happens if I run a one man band and act as an ally, take the money and walk off with it? What happens if my corp does a poor job and don't deserve the money paid for my 'services'?
Maybe the payment system should be changed so that when the war dec ends the defender is abliged to pay for services rendered. If the ally did a good job you could throw in a bonus.
If they sucked you don't pay them at all.
If you want to screw them over you don't pay them either but at least they could dec you back and reclaim their lost earning! :P
Defenders could also provide feedback (yeah, like a ebay seller) to rate them on how well they did so that other defenders can see their ratings and either look for a particular good rated corp for their services or keep away from offers of bad corps.
Yes it could make new merc corps difficult to break into the market but if they reduce their asking price they'll take on a few deals at a loss but build up the required rep to take on higher paying contracts. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
333
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Adriel Malakai wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:aggressor is always to the left and it says so when you mouse over the corp/alliance logo defender is therefore always to the right and also has a mouse hint
in the war report, aggressor is red and defender blue. Any chance you can comment on the strong likelihood that no fee will undermine your entire merc market? Will you guys at least watch to see if what I'm saying (and other people like me who actually do decs full time) will happen? We will absolutely be monitoring this closely post-Inferno. We have implemented several metrics that make it easier for us to track what is going on in the war system and we will use the data gathered (plus of course feedback from you guys) to make adjustments to the system in the future, if needed.
people this is discusting he only has 110 likes give this man atleast 5000...
PLEX FOR PIZZA!
TECH iii MINNING SHIPS! |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
646
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Adriel Malakai wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:aggressor is always to the left and it says so when you mouse over the corp/alliance logo defender is therefore always to the right and also has a mouse hint
in the war report, aggressor is red and defender blue. Any chance you can comment on the strong likelihood that no fee will undermine your entire merc market? Will you guys at least watch to see if what I'm saying (and other people like me who actually do decs full time) will happen? We will absolutely be monitoring this closely post-Inferno. We have implemented several metrics that make it easier for us to track what is going on in the war system and we will use the data gathered (plus of course feedback from you guys) to make adjustments to the system in the future, if needed.
i hope you monitor how many people unsubs after being wardecced for weeks by every last griefer in game, without a chance to avoid nor escape nor win nor do shlt about it. EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 15% Nullsec; 72% Highsec. CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.-á
CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Karl Planck
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
166
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:28:00 -
[50] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:Karl Planck wrote:btw to all you cheezers talking about RR not being fixed, it is. RR'ing someone will now grant a suspect flag doing 2 things.
1) You get the aggression timer of the person your repping (no docking) 2) You become open to aggression by EVERYONE, not just the enemies of the people you are aggressing
No, that comes with the crimewatch changes which will be happening towards the end of the summer.
when did you see a date on that? I was under the impression that crimewatch changes were happening with the inferno expansion and cannot find any specifics on luanching at a later date If you don't like it, you should go and ride your Emo high-horse all the way back to WoW.
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Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
44
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:30:00 -
[51] - Quote
Karl Planck wrote:Adriel Malakai wrote:Karl Planck wrote:btw to all you cheezers talking about RR not being fixed, it is. RR'ing someone will now grant a suspect flag doing 2 things.
1) You get the aggression timer of the person your repping (no docking) 2) You become open to aggression by EVERYONE, not just the enemies of the people you are aggressing
No, that comes with the crimewatch changes which will be happening towards the end of the summer. when did you see a date on that? I was under the impression that crimewatch changes were happening with the inferno expansion and cannot find any specifics on luanching at a later date
Greyscale mentioned in a post somewhere in GD I thought. I'll poke around and try to find it. |
Karl Planck
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
166
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:31:00 -
[52] - Quote
btw on the note of this expansion, corp hopping still going to be a dramatic problem. I say you just bite the bullet and charge ~100-200m to start a corp, along with the changes you have proposed so far. If you don't like it, you should go and ride your Emo high-horse all the way back to WoW.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
552
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:32:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Adriel Malakai wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:aggressor is always to the left and it says so when you mouse over the corp/alliance logo defender is therefore always to the right and also has a mouse hint
in the war report, aggressor is red and defender blue. Any chance you can comment on the strong likelihood that no fee will undermine your entire merc market? Will you guys at least watch to see if what I'm saying (and other people like me who actually do decs full time) will happen? We will absolutely be monitoring this closely post-Inferno. We have implemented several metrics that make it easier for us to track what is going on in the war system and we will use the data gathered (plus of course feedback from you guys) to make adjustments to the system in the future, if needed. Great so what you're telling us is that you're going to release obviously incomplete, poorly thought out content and then wait to see how broken it is after you've released it.
Didn't I hear soundwave talking about releasing content when it's finished rather than rushing towards expansion deadlines with unfinished garbage at some point? Oh I guess that was before crucible came out and CCP was still pretending to be apologetic about incarna and hadn't gotten back to the standard practice of releasing unfinished crap. |
Karl Planck
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
166
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:Karl Planck wrote:Adriel Malakai wrote:Karl Planck wrote:btw to all you cheezers talking about RR not being fixed, it is. RR'ing someone will now grant a suspect flag doing 2 things.
1) You get the aggression timer of the person your repping (no docking) 2) You become open to aggression by EVERYONE, not just the enemies of the people you are aggressing
No, that comes with the crimewatch changes which will be happening towards the end of the summer. when did you see a date on that? I was under the impression that crimewatch changes were happening with the inferno expansion and cannot find any specifics on luanching at a later date Greyscale mentioned in a post somewhere in GD I thought. I'll poke around and try to find it.
ah found it
CCP Masterplan wrote: I'm glad that this crimewatch work was positively received. The timescale beyond summer isn't firmly fixed yet - we're still planning the release calendar for the next 12 months. It certainly won't be early summer, but I'd hope to be releasing something before the winter. EXPECTATIONS-MANAGEMENT DISCLAIMER: ALL PLANS ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE! I DON'T SET THE SCHEDULE
If you don't like it, you should go and ride your Emo high-horse all the way back to WoW.
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Wiu Ming
Wrecking Shots
2
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:41:00 -
[55] - Quote
Avila Cracko wrote:And defender have onle [sic] one option and that is to become ISK cow for an "Ally". ...You only want to help griefers and screw other players?
Not necessarily. I'm sure high sec war deccing entities have made a lot of enemies over time. Corps may *want* to combine forces to enable payback. The new ally system lets it happen.
Here's another scenario: a nullsec alliance like TEST decides to dec someone. Don't you think upon hearing of this little gem that Privateers, Moar Tears and every other highsec deccing entity would clamor for the chance to join the fray? Hell, the deccee might find itself offered piles of isk for the privilege of doing just that.
Speaking of which, Devs why does the ally system only have a spot for demanding isk? Can this number be negative? Why can't corps be offered isk for the opportunity to join their war?
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Fergall Acheilleus
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:44:00 -
[56] - Quote
CCP is trying to reinvent the wheel. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
111
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:44:00 -
[57] - Quote
Sheena Tzash wrote:Its nice to see all these changes going into the war system and I hope the idea behind some of the restrictions is to reduce the amount of pure griefing war decs that are put onto newbie corps and chases away all the new players from the game.
It causes the agressor to think about the cost and retaliation capabilities of their opponent before they put in the dec.
The defender can still go turtle on them and wait it out or with this new system bring in some hired hands which could quite easily cost more to defend yourself than the agressors pay on the dec itself.
Just a thought on ally payment system though - I assume that they are paid as soon as the defender accepts the offer? What happens if I run a one man band and act as an ally, take the money and walk off with it? What happens if my corp does a poor job and don't deserve the money paid for my 'services'?
Maybe the payment system should be changed so that when the war dec ends the defender is abliged to pay for services rendered. If the ally did a good job you could throw in a bonus.
If they sucked you don't pay them at all.
If you want to screw them over you don't pay them either but at least they could dec you back and reclaim their lost earning! :P
Defenders could also provide feedback (yeah, like a ebay seller) to rate them on how well they did so that other defenders can see their ratings and either look for a particular good rated corp for their services or keep away from offers of bad corps.
Yes it could make new merc corps difficult to break into the market but if they reduce their asking price they'll take on a few deals at a loss but build up the required rep to take on higher paying contracts.
The payment is all up front. It's a basic one lump some right now, we didn't want to implement a more elaborate payment scheme in the first iteration (like automatic reimbursement fund, etc.) - people can continue to negotiate that informally as they've done in the past. The main thinking here is to allow mercenary corporation to build up reputation over time. The public war history is the first step in that direction, allowing prospective patrons to check out the war history of an offering merc corp. Later on we want to expand the information given here to allow defenders to more easily see the 'worthiness' of a merc corp before deciding whether to hire them. A rating or ranking system of some sorts, maybe in EVE Gate, is also a possibility.
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Armed Maniac
The Rock and Roid Band
1
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
If the ally market becomes everyone willing to join at no charge so they can get targets, wouldn't other corps declare war on an alt corp, then use that alt corp to accept as many allies as they wanted targets for?
Pirate corp declares war on alt corp, alt corp accepts 3 ally corps, Pirate corp is now at war with 3 other corps for the cost of 1 war. With the added benefit of them being able to choose which corps they accept the ally contract from.
This also leaves the ally corps with no way to end the war, as long as the pirate corp keeps paying the fee.
Even if the Ally corps charged a fee, the alt corp would only have to pay that once to get stuck in a war they can't get out of.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
553
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Posted - 2012.05.18 20:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
Absolutely no gaping holes in this mechanic, no sir, it's totally ready for rollout. |
Deen Wispa
Screaming War Eagles Incorporated
255
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 21:03:00 -
[60] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Nice addition!
Now i can wardec A with my main corp B, then offer him my alt corp C as an ally and let A have it against B while my alt corp gets paid for nothing. And if i as much as convince A to "join" C in an all out assault on B and just don't log in or begin shooting A, the LOLz will be epic.
I wonder where do this CCP guys get so much naivety. They spend months building mechanics that are born dead because even a special child could figure how to abuse them in less than 5 minutes, and yet manage to feel proud about it...
The thing is, EVE is a game of alts nowadays. Virtually every area of the sandbox (incursions, FW, hisec wars, etc...) can be exploited. What you just highlighted will be exploited but smart players will adapt. The ignorant will always be taken for a ride. That will never change
C'est la Eve :)
PS- Same thoughts were going through my head as well. But at the end of the day, it's still hisec wars, so meh C'est La Eve :) Gallente Militia -áPVP Corp. Selective recruitment open. http://iamsheriff.com/eagle.html |
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