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Shandir
Indigo Archive
140
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 21:03:00 -
[61] - Quote
At the very least, by release you should allow Allies to release themselves from a contract by returning the fee. This prevents the most ridiculous exploitations already mentioned.
You do not want to make it possible to trap a merc corp in a perpetual war they cannot leave between two corps they are not able to affect.
Eg:
Corp 1 has 100 members who like to grief. They invite a few friends to form a Corp 2 and the second corp declares war on them. Corp 1 is now a defender against Corp 2 and it looks reasonably legit. Corp 1 offers some ISK to MercCorps 1,2,3,4 to join their war. Now 4 MercCorps are aiding Corp 1. Corp 1 declares the war mutual. Corp 1&2 change CEO to an alt. Corp 1&2 have all members leave and join Corp 2 or another Corp.
Merc corps 1,2,3,4 are now in an infinite, free war they cannot leave without disbanding, potentially against the people they allied with.
Just one possible infinite-war exploit. |

MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
676
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 21:06:00 -
[62] - Quote
Please push for eve gate kill boards and war reports asap! : D |

MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
676
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 21:09:00 -
[63] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Absolutely no gaping holes in this mechanic, no sir, it's totally ready for rollout.
The only "gaping holes" are put there on purpose you idiot. eve is a game where scamming and ******* with people is a feature. If you think the loopholes are an after thought, your kidding yourself.
They said it in the dev blog. The system has to be open to abuse so the players set the rules, not CCP. |

Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
115
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 21:11:00 -
[64] - Quote
Looks like a good system, but seems rather inflexible, and doesn't really give the participants many options, si it really feels more like a feature than a tool. 
Two things might make this system better:
(1) Allow for variable-length alliance contracts. There should be an option to set whether the alliance will last one week, several weeks, or until the end of the war. That will give both sides more bargaining power. Mercenaries won't have to worry about being tied up a war they no longer want, and defenders won't have to worry about paying a huge sum up-front for services that may never be rendered.
(2) Allow for recurring weekly payments to complement the above system. |

Karl Planck
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
166
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 21:12:00 -
[65] - Quote
Shandir wrote:At the very least, by release you should allow Allies to release themselves from a contract by returning the fee. This prevents the most ridiculous exploitations already mentioned.
You do not want to make it possible to trap a merc corp in a perpetual war they cannot leave between two corps they are not able to affect.
Eg:
Corp 1 has 100 members who like to grief. They invite a few friends to form a Corp 2 and the second corp declares war on them. Corp 1 is now a defender against Corp 2 and it looks reasonably legit. Corp 1 offers some ISK to MercCorps 1,2,3,4 to join their war. Now 4 MercCorps are aiding Corp 1. Corp 1 declares the war mutual. Corp 1&2 change CEO to an alt. Corp 1&2 have all members leave and join Corp 2 or another Corp.
Merc corps 1,2,3,4 are now in an infinite, free war they cannot leave without disbanding, potentially against the people they allied with.
Just one possible infinite-war exploit.
I don't have a problem with infinite war exploites that encourge fighting, its the ones where they can get out of the fighting that erks me.
Still standing behind my charge 100-200mil to start a corp stance If you don't like it, you should go and ride your Emo high-horse all the way back to WoW.
|

Shandir
Indigo Archive
140
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 21:25:00 -
[66] - Quote
Karl Planck wrote:Shandir wrote:At the very least, by release you should allow Allies to release themselves from a contract by returning the fee. This prevents the most ridiculous exploitations already mentioned.
You do not want to make it possible to trap a merc corp in a perpetual war they cannot leave between two corps they are not able to affect.
Eg:
Corp 1 has 100 members who like to grief. They invite a few friends to form a Corp 2 and the second corp declares war on them. Corp 1 is now a defender against Corp 2 and it looks reasonably legit. Corp 1 offers some ISK to MercCorps 1,2,3,4 to join their war. Now 4 MercCorps are aiding Corp 1. Corp 1 declares the war mutual. Corp 1&2 change CEO to an alt. Corp 1&2 have all members leave and join Corp 2 or another Corp.
Merc corps 1,2,3,4 are now in an infinite, free war they cannot leave without disbanding, potentially against the people they allied with.
Just one possible infinite-war exploit. I don't have a problem with infinite war exploites that encourge fighting, its the ones where they can get out of the fighting that erks me. Still standing behind my charge 100-200mil to start a corp stance
Griefer tears are best tears?
But in a slightly less troll-y vein, the war system has flaws in both sides of the equation, I agree. It is, however, definitely more critical to fix the problems with the defender's side first. Until it is possible for a defender to win a war, wars will never be meaningful.
Atm, the one thing they are adding that will help this, is the mutual-lock on the attacker. If the defender is willing and able to do this, it might actually ruin the attacker's day. If the attacker is not just alts, or just as willing to corp hop as the defender when a proper fight is given.
Personally, I'd be in favour of preventing the attackers from corp dropping unless they disband - and the defender gets to keep the attacker's corp/alliance name if they do. I'd just love the competent defender corps to have a pile of vanquished foes (Corp names) to show off. |

Prisoner 002929
Wulgun Wing
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 21:38:00 -
[67] - Quote
Say your 10 man corp has a legit beef w/ some guys who've been greifing you. Your corp declares war on the another 10 man corp. Little did you know it was a front corporation for goon and a trap. You've been baited and now you realize you've just accidentally dec'd the entire CFC and it costs them nothing. This could be a good thing or the most massive mistake you've ever made in eve. The point is that you have absolutely no way to judge the potential risk. By declaring one war you could literally be opening yourself to a wardec from all of eve and essentially you'd be paying for it.
Why would anyone ever dec anyone in eve again? Any massive alliance that wants to can jump in against you and for you to bring in your own allies requires them to dec war and thus incure the massive costs of dec'ing the mega alliances. You're literally exposed to all the risk in the affair AND you're paying for it. This is nothing more then an attempt to kill wardecs all together. A poorly veiled one at that. |

JeanPant Man
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 21:41:00 -
[68] - Quote
Shandir wrote:At the very least, by release you should allow Allies to release themselves from a contract by returning the fee. This prevents the most ridiculous exploitations already mentioned.
You do not want to make it possible to trap a merc corp in a perpetual war they cannot leave between two corps they are not able to affect.
Eg:
Corp 1 has 100 members who like to grief. They invite a few friends to form a Corp 2 and the second corp declares war on them. Corp 1 is now a defender against Corp 2 and it looks reasonably legit. Corp 1 offers some ISK to MercCorps 1,2,3,4 to join their war. Now 4 MercCorps are aiding Corp 1. Corp 1 declares the war mutual. Corp 1&2 change CEO to an alt. Corp 1&2 have all members leave and join Corp 2 or another Corp.
Merc corps 1,2,3,4 are now in an infinite, free war they cannot leave without disbanding, potentially against the people they allied with.
Just one possible infinite-war exploit.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did the blog not say that by declaring the war neutral, all merc corps are kicked from the war? |

LadyDream
Boobs Light Industries
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 21:56:00 -
[69] - Quote
Swords? I think we missing dragons, trolls and dwarves for the set. |

JeanPant Man
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 21:58:00 -
[70] - Quote
Prisoner 002929 wrote:Say your 10 man corp has a legit beef w/ some guys who've been greifing you. Your corp declares war on the another 10 man corp. Little did you know it was a front corporation for goon and a trap. You've been baited and now you realize you've just accidentally dec'd the entire CFC and it costs them nothing. This could be a good thing or the most massive mistake you've ever made in eve. The point is that you have absolutely no way to judge the potential risk. By declaring one war you could literally be opening yourself to a wardec from all of eve and essentially you'd be paying for it.
Why would anyone ever dec anyone in eve again? Any massive alliance that wants to can jump in against you and for you to bring in your own allies requires them to dec war and thus incure the massive costs of dec'ing the mega alliances. You're literally exposed to all the risk in the affair AND you're paying for it. This is nothing more then an attempt to kill wardecs all together. A poorly veiled one at that.
I think you are looking at this incorrectly. Dont think of it as a game where they try to promote Wars, instead think of it as if it were real life. The goal is to stop corps from war declaring for the hell of it. Highsec wars will be more in line with nullsec in the sense that you cant just carelessly attack anyone without any risk of losing. If a nullsec alliance invades another groups space, the defending nullsec group will rally up all the help it can get! Why should highsec be any different?
So in the past where one corp would war dec 10 industrial corps for easy kills, in Inferno they will actually have to fight for those kills. Granted wars will become more rare as they are more risky, but I doubt wars will become a thing of the past. Corps will start wars because they might gain something of value (that is worth the risk), and not just for senseless fun.
If anything, CCP have made wars more realistic and in tune with human nature. |
|

Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
255
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 21:59:00 -
[71] - Quote
Prisoner 002929 wrote:Say your 10 man corp has a legit beef w/ some guys who've been greifing you. Your corp declares war on the another 10 man corp. Little did you know it was a front corporation for goon and a trap. You've been baited and now you realize you've just accidentally dec'd the entire CFC and it costs them nothing. This could be a good thing or the most massive mistake you've ever made in eve. The point is that you have absolutely no way to judge the potential risk. By declaring one war you could literally be opening yourself to a wardec from all of eve and essentially you'd be paying for it.
Why would anyone ever dec anyone in eve again? Any massive alliance that wants to can jump in against you and for you to bring in your own allies requires them to dec war and thus incure the massive costs of dec'ing the mega alliances. You're literally exposed to all the risk in the affair AND you're paying for it. This is nothing more then an attempt to kill wardecs all together. A poorly veiled one at that. Doesn't even take a large alliance behind the ten-man alt corp, it could just be any old corp of good friends who like to make trouble. As soon as they get dec'd they invite every single Tom, ****, and Harry who put up an ad to be your ally for free. Judging by some of the responses in this thread there's going to be a ton of corps and alliances doing exactly that.
I completely agree, wars are officially dead. +1 in local |

Riffix
Synergistic Arbitrage
33
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 22:00:00 -
[72] - Quote
Honestly, I don't really see this as being that good or helpful until pretty much all the things you listed under "Future is Not a Dirty Word" get implemented.
For people to effectively be Mercs there contracts need to be finite with conclusive goals/conditions. Setting time limits for the duration of the contract is one, but another is conditions for payment. Right now the only condition is loosely that the war end. But there is nothing that enforces that. There is nothing to stop an "ally" from agreeing to help, taking the cash, and doing nothing. While I can acknowledge that it might not be EVE without the ability for this type of abuse, since there isn't really an official way to rate a corp/alliance or look up their combat history, the defender has no recourse. If they were looking for help with a defensive war in the first place, chances are they probably don't have the resources to hunt down someone who griefs them via this "help" system.
Also, why not have contracts that don't get paid to the incoming ally until they are completed. For example "get aggressor to retract war" or "cause x amout of ISK damage to agressor" or "destroy x number of ships". Even more sexy would be a renewable contract that basically allows the ally to get paid for every week that they fulfill the specified goal. Maybe something other than ISK could be offered as rewards, or bonus rewards, tiers of payments. There is still a possibility for 2 corps to collude on this but if the person setting the contract prices it right, it wouldn't be worth the trouble. Lead, Follow, or Get the #@$!@ Out of the Way. |

Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 22:05:00 -
[73] - Quote
JeanPant Man wrote:Prisoner 002929 wrote:Say your 10 man corp has a legit beef w/ some guys who've been greifing you. Your corp declares war on the another 10 man corp. Little did you know it was a front corporation for goon and a trap. You've been baited and now you realize you've just accidentally dec'd the entire CFC and it costs them nothing. This could be a good thing or the most massive mistake you've ever made in eve. The point is that you have absolutely no way to judge the potential risk. By declaring one war you could literally be opening yourself to a wardec from all of eve and essentially you'd be paying for it.
Why would anyone ever dec anyone in eve again? Any massive alliance that wants to can jump in against you and for you to bring in your own allies requires them to dec war and thus incure the massive costs of dec'ing the mega alliances. You're literally exposed to all the risk in the affair AND you're paying for it. This is nothing more then an attempt to kill wardecs all together. A poorly veiled one at that. I think you are looking at this incorrectly. Dont think of it as a game where they try to promote Wars, instead think of it as if it were real life. The goal is to stop corps from war declaring for the hell of it. Highsec wars will be more in line with nullsec in the sense that you cant just carelessly attack anyone without any risk of losing. If a nullsec alliance invades another groups space, the defending nullsec group will rally up all the help it can get! Why should highsec be any different? So in the past where one corp would war dec 10 industrial corps for easy kills, in Inferno they will actually have to fight for those kills. Granted wars will become more rare as they are more risky, but I doubt wars will become a thing of the past. Corps will start wars because they might gain something of value (that is worth the risk), and not just for senseless fun. If anything, CCP have made wars more realistic and in tune with human nature. That's because you don't understand what you're talking about, as evidenced by stating that you could wardec 10 corps at once (no hate, just saying).
No one is saying that the old system was perfect. No one is denying that the old system was ABSURDLY cheap. However, it has been the policy of CCP to make things MORE dangerous and promote this as the "spirit of Eve." It was strongly implied that Inferno, while making wardecs riskier for the aggressorl, would promote wars and make them a MEANINGFUL mechanic, not an EXTINCT one (i.e. CCP did state that wars would be more risky for all involved, but never said anything about making them "rarer"). Also, not many people wardec for ISK, they do it for fun, payback, or revenge.
Sure, the updated costs (I also have an issue with the cost formula, but no one denies that costs did need to increase) will cut down on random grief wardecs, and I don't have too much an issue with that effect (as long as it isn't taken to an extreme, which it is). However, the ally system in its current state will more or less eliminate wardecs completely, with the possible exception of large, professional wardeccing corps. |

None ofthe Above
183
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 22:06:00 -
[74] - Quote
Shandir wrote: Personally, I'd be in favour of preventing the attackers from corp dropping unless they disband - and the defender gets to keep the attacker's corp/alliance name if they do. I'd just love the competent defender corps to have a pile of vanquished foes (Corp names) to show off.
That's a cute idea.
Preventing people from dropping corp though forgets that people are individuals (well except for the alts) and may not want to hang with the CEO. Trapping people in corps will have lots of nasty unintended consequences.
That said, corp names and tickers as trophies is an interesting idea.
|

None ofthe Above
183
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 22:14:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:
The payment is all up front. It's a basic one lump some right now, we didn't want to implement a more elaborate payment scheme in the first iteration (like automatic reimbursement fund, etc.) - people can continue to negotiate that informally as they've done in the past. The main thinking here is to allow mercenary corporation to build up reputation over time. The public war history is the first step in that direction, allowing prospective patrons to check out the war history of an offering merc corp. Later on we want to expand the information given here to allow defenders to more easily see the 'worthiness' of a merc corp before deciding whether to hire them. A rating or ranking system of some sorts, maybe in EVE Gate, is also a possibility.
If an ally can't withdraw from the war and has no control of ending it, I don't expect this to be used too much.
Hardcore pvpers/mercs and the occasional grudge bearing crop.
It'll be used just enough and in flashy enough cases to appear to be working, but I think there really needs to be the possibility of withdrawal.
Additionally you talk about its possible for the defender and the ally to make their own arrangements for payment after the initial isk fee, but the ally cannot withdraw so has little leverage. (I suppose they could refuse to undock, but that's lame.)
Anyway, I look forward to these refinements.
|

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
649
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 22:14:00 -
[76] - Quote
I think I agree with the idea that the "holes" are just ways for corps to try and scam each other, and are part of the game. After all, if you find yourself in a war that you just want no part of, you can drop to an NPC corp. But if it just becomes a big mess, without us players learning how to sort it out I see two additions that would help:
Defenders can fire a useless ally. But any payment is still gone.
Allies can return payment and drop out. (After all they can drop out WITHOUT returning the payment by dis-banding).
The other thing that helps is to insure the war record is clear, concise, and provides the information needed to allow for a defender to make an informed decision on hiring any given ally.
Also, I foresee the biggest use of this system is to hire as allies members of your coalition, that is people you know and are friends with. For example, someone in your coalition makes the 1 pilot corp for setting up a POS. It gets decced. The one pilot corp brings in the PvP elements of the coalition as allies. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

Haifisch Zahne
HZ Corp
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 22:18:00 -
[77] - Quote
The point of the new war/ally mechanics is to simply to open up (or really return to the status quo) an ISK sink.
In particular, the small and one-man corporation with minimal taxes is now effectively dead, and the masses of carebears must return to the NPC corporations with their high taxes. Why? Because of the thousand and one exploits that everyone is mentioning.
And, will the players who enjoy PvP care? Hardly, this is why they play.
I will say it once, I will say it a hundred times: Escalation and Inferno are designed to fight ISK inflation, which leads to less PLEX sold. More wars, higher taxes, drone doodie nerf, changes to loot, everything is designed to suck ISK out of the game. You can see the results already in the Market. With a PLEX getting less ISK-- and PvP increasing-- people will buy more.
CCP is in the business of selling PLEX. Follow the money, people. |

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
649
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 22:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:Shandir wrote: Personally, I'd be in favour of preventing the attackers from corp dropping unless they disband - and the defender gets to keep the attacker's corp/alliance name if they do. I'd just love the competent defender corps to have a pile of vanquished foes (Corp names) to show off.
That's a cute idea. Preventing people from dropping corp though forgets that people are individuals (well except for the alts) and may not want to hang with the CEO. Trapping people in corps will have lots of nasty unintended consequences. That said, corp names and tickers as trophies is an interesting idea.
The not being able to drop corp has been used as for griefing in the past:
Corp recruits new players. CEO gives them roles. CEO uses them for target practice. Members drop roles to quit corp. CEO assigns them new roles before the 24 hours is up, trapping them in corp.
CCP fix: once you drop roles, new ones cannot be assigned to you.
If a war dec in any way trapped players in a corp, similar actions would be possible. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 22:26:00 -
[79] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote: Didn't I hear soundwave talking about releasing content when it's finished rather than rushing towards expansion deadlines with unfinished garbage at some point? Oh I guess that was before crucible came out and CCP was still pretending to be apologetic about incarna and hadn't gotten back to the standard practice of releasing unfinished crap.
The bitterness is strong in this one. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |

Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 22:27:00 -
[80] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:
The not being able to drop corp has been used as for griefing in the past:
Corp recruits new players. CEO gives them roles. CEO uses them for target practice. Members drop roles to quit corp. CEO assigns them new roles before the 24 hours is up, trapping them in corp.
CCP fix: once you drop roles, new ones cannot be assigned to you.
If a war dec in any way trapped players in a corp, similar actions would be possible.
AFAIK this is one of the few things classified as "griefing" that is not allowed. My understanding has been that if you petition something like this, the GMs will take action.
That being said, not being allowed to drop corp is a bad idea. Just make the war follow corp droppers and/or give them the blemish discussed at fanfest. The currently proposed idea of not letting them rejoin for a set period of time is laughable. |
|

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
649
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 22:34:00 -
[81] - Quote
Prisoner 002929 wrote:Say your 10 man corp has a legit beef w/ some guys who've been greifing you. Your corp declares war on the another 10 man corp. Little did you know it was a front corporation for goon and a trap. You've been baited and now you realize you've just accidentally dec'd the entire CFC and it costs them nothing. This could be a good thing or the most massive mistake you've ever made in eve. The point is that you have absolutely no way to judge the potential risk. By declaring one war you could literally be opening yourself to a wardec from all of eve and essentially you'd be paying for it.
If the CFC joined as an ally, the aggressor corp just hit the jackpot! That corp wold be worth big time ISK! "You want to have a war vs the Goons for only 50 million a week? Buy our corp!" http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |

Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
509
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 22:37:00 -
[82] - Quote
Quote:Another thing weGÇÖre looking into is to exclude the ally system from mutual wars GÇô if a war has been made mutual, then no allies can be involved and existing ally contracts are cancelled. This mitigates a little the fact that now when a war is made mutual the only way for it to end is by surrender. WeGÇÖll monitor the early experience with the system post-Inferno and make a decision whether this change is needed/wanted. I can tell you right now, this is needed. Mutual wars and allies will be exploited to trap corps into free wars from day one. If left unfixed, pretty soon nobody will want to start wars or enter merc contracts. Unless that's your intention? Because it looks that way from the changes you are implementing. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |

Large Collidable Object
morons.
1458
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 22:53:00 -
[83] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:Quote:Another thing weGÇÖre looking into is to exclude the ally system from mutual wars GÇô if a war has been made mutual, then no allies can be involved and existing ally contracts are cancelled. This mitigates a little the fact that now when a war is made mutual the only way for it to end is by surrender. WeGÇÖll monitor the early experience with the system post-Inferno and make a decision whether this change is needed/wanted. I can tell you right now, this is needed. Mutual wars and allies will be exploited to trap corps into free wars from day one. If left unfixed, pretty soon nobody will want to start wars or enter merc contracts. Unless that's your intention? Because it looks that way from the changes you are implementing.
I think the new system is pretty good to start with and watch player behaviour.
Maybe a grace period to retract the war (no refunds, but a possibility to get out without surrender) after it has been made mutual by the defender could be helpful for newb corps wardeccing without proper intel...
I for one am looking forward to provide free assistance to many corps asking for help (no - not with this character). You know... morons. |

Shandir
Indigo Archive
143
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 23:29:00 -
[84] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:Quote:Another thing weGÇÖre looking into is to exclude the ally system from mutual wars GÇô if a war has been made mutual, then no allies can be involved and existing ally contracts are cancelled. This mitigates a little the fact that now when a war is made mutual the only way for it to end is by surrender. WeGÇÖll monitor the early experience with the system post-Inferno and make a decision whether this change is needed/wanted. I can tell you right now, this is needed. Mutual wars and allies will be exploited to trap corps into free wars from day one. If left unfixed, pretty soon nobody will want to start wars or enter merc contracts. Unless that's your intention? Because it looks that way from the changes you are implementing.
No, they started the war, and they'll suffer genuine consequences. The only corps that should not be trapped in a war are the mercs.
I would say it's fair to allow a timeout clause where a minimum price surrender is allowed. But only if both sides get that concession. The attacker has long been able to declare a war for an indefinite period of time (and still can), so long as they pay a small fee. That fee is still trivial to dec small corps.
If the attacker can trap a defender in a war for a trivial fee, then the defender should be able to trap the attacker in a war for significantly less in retaliation.
I'd say that after 90 days of war, a surrender option of a reasonable fee (perhaps equal to 1 month war fee) is available to both corps as an unrefusable offer. But the defenders get the right to screw over the attacker in some small way right now, and that is fair play.
Edit - regarding the above, I think that the get-out clause should specifically count as a surrender. 2 reasons: 1) They failed and deserve the negative mark on their record. 2) Surrender needs to become a more reasonable option to all parties, and the only way to do this is to decouple it from the idea of being a pinata. This provides a way to force corporations to have surrenders on record without necessarily making them ISK faucets. The surrender amount SHOULD NEVER be displayed in a place of record (nor available easily through the API). |

Dain Highwind
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 00:02:00 -
[85] - Quote
CCP you are introducing a new awesome feature as killreports where you can see the isk destroyed in the kill. Is it really that difficult to pay mercenaries an agreed % of isk per kill????
When you first said "there will be a mercenary marketplace" i was very exited, now i realize that you ****** all it up again. |

MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
678
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 00:31:00 -
[86] - Quote
Dain Highwind wrote:CCP you are introducing a new awesome feature as killreports where you can see the isk destroyed in the kill. Is it really that difficult to pay mercenaries an agreed % of isk per kill????
When you first said "there will be a mercenary marketplace" i was very exited, now i realize that you ****** all it up again.
O.o, wow your right, that would be amazing
|

MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
679
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 01:31:00 -
[87] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:Quote:Another thing weGÇÖre looking into is to exclude the ally system from mutual wars GÇô if a war has been made mutual, then no allies can be involved and existing ally contracts are cancelled. This mitigates a little the fact that now when a war is made mutual the only way for it to end is by surrender. WeGÇÖll monitor the early experience with the system post-Inferno and make a decision whether this change is needed/wanted. I can tell you right now, this is needed. Mutual wars and allies will be exploited to trap corps into free wars from day one. If left unfixed, pretty soon nobody will want to start wars or enter merc contracts. Unless that's your intention? Because it looks that way from the changes you are implementing.
Exactly. This is what they want. It will create a market place for trust-able Merc corporations. I think this system is beyond your scope of thinking.
Vincent Athena wrote:Prisoner 002929 wrote:Say your 10 man corp has a legit beef w/ some guys who've been greifing you. Your corp declares war on the another 10 man corp. Little did you know it was a front corporation for goon and a trap. You've been baited and now you realize you've just accidentally dec'd the entire CFC and it costs them nothing. This could be a good thing or the most massive mistake you've ever made in eve. The point is that you have absolutely no way to judge the potential risk. By declaring one war you could literally be opening yourself to a wardec from all of eve and essentially you'd be paying for it. If the CFC joined as an ally, the aggressor corp just hit the jackpot! That corp wold be worth big time ISK! "You want to have a war vs the Goons for only 50 million a week? Buy our corp!"
Bingo |

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
629
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Posted - 2012.05.19 04:21:00 -
[88] - Quote
I think the "Ally till death do us part" thing is a bit weird.
You also don't address, how does the payment for the war dec change with an ally?
If Corp A were to war dec corp B, a 2 man corp, and corp B hires Corp C as mercs, a 100 man corp.
The cost doesn't change?
Doesn't this open up the ability to perma-lock a mercenary into a war? The fee is only 50m. The mercs are 100 man corp. Grief the mercs into accepting contract, pay for war on 2 man corp indefinitely. Rinse repeat.
 Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |

Iam Widdershins
Diq Holdings
691
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Posted - 2012.05.19 05:10:00 -
[89] - Quote
My first thoughts:
The marketplace looks good so far, but I'm a bit confused that it's a buyer's market only. Why can a mercenary corporation not put up an order for its own services, giving a seller's market as well? This could definitely serve to drive up the prices of war assistance and consequently bring a better driving force to the mercenary economy. It would also allow both mercenaries and defenders both an active and a passive option to finding contracts and allies.
Simply turn it around and allow a corp to advertise itself as "For hire" with its war history, desired fee, and capabilities on display; potential customers could offer them bids and explain the situation of the war in their application, and the mercenaries could then choose which contracts to accept.
My only other question is:
Quote:When you offer to ally someone, you must wait for them to respond, or 24 hours (which ever comes first) before making another formal offer. Does this mean before you can make another offer to ANYONE, or only if you can make another offer to that same corp? Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |

fdk trade
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.05.19 05:21:00 -
[90] - Quote
It's not very cool.I don't think that I need system to tell me who will fight for me.The real rules are offline rules.That means when we say 'deal ' we can fight or not.This new ally system looks like some sh^t in warcraft instead of EVE online. |
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