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kieron
   |
Posted - 2004.09.19 23:48:00 -
[1]
Hellmar shared his thoughts on the porting of EVE to other operating systems in his newest Dev Blog. It is something that we are looking at, but for a post-Shiva deployment if we do decide to do so. Make sure to leave your comments and thoughts, as player feedback is always important in matters such as this.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
|
kieron
|
Posted - 2004.09.19 23:48:00 -
[2]
Hellmar shared his thoughts on the porting of EVE to other operating systems in his newest Dev Blog. It is something that we are looking at, but for a post-Shiva deployment if we do decide to do so. Make sure to leave your comments and thoughts, as player feedback is always important in matters such as this.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
|
MooKids
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 00:13:00 -
[3]
See people, this is an example that when you ask NICELY, the other party might be more willing to help you.
Even though I use Windows, thanks CCP, should bring in a few more players I can shoot  .
--------------------------------
CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
MooKids
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 00:13:00 -
[4]
See people, this is an example that when you ask NICELY, the other party might be more willing to help you.
Even though I use Windows, thanks CCP, should bring in a few more players I can shoot .
--------------------------------
CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
Jon Frimann
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 00:43:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jon Frimann on 20/09/2004 02:35:19
Edited by: Jon Frimann on 20/09/2004 00:51:19
Edited by: Jon Frimann on 20/09/2004 00:46:34
I've will betatest (if this ever happens). :)
I use gentoo linux, so ebuild whoud be nice if this happens. :)
I hate like changing to windows when i want to play eve-online, but i do it non the less becose i like this game. (edit) But i've even buy the linux version if you make one.
(edit: fixed mistypes)
Lost in Space |
Jon Frimann
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 00:43:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jon Frimann on 20/09/2004 02:35:19
Edited by: Jon Frimann on 20/09/2004 00:51:19
Edited by: Jon Frimann on 20/09/2004 00:46:34
I've will betatest (if this ever happens). :)
I use gentoo linux, so ebuild whoud be nice if this happens. :)
I hate like changing to windows when i want to play eve-online, but i do it non the less becose i like this game. (edit) But i've even buy the linux version if you make one.
(edit: fixed mistypes)
Lost in Space |
nieo
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 02:11:00 -
[7]
I've stated my opinion in the dev blog, will just make a plead here as well.
PLEASE make it possible to play EVE in Linux as well. If that happens I would be a very happy pilot! 
|
nieo
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 02:11:00 -
[8]
I've stated my opinion in the dev blog, will just make a plead here as well.
PLEASE make it possible to play EVE in Linux as well. If that happens I would be a very happy pilot!
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 03:23:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Samoht Werdna on 20/09/2004 03:27:00
Edited by: Samoht Werdna on 20/09/2004 03:26:06
 Originally by: Jon Frimann
(edit: fixed mistypes)
Really?! You did? 
On the subject of porting. I think probably the best solution, unless you happen to have more *nix knowledge than I think you do, would be to try using a *nix, probably Linux, on your Kali test cluster. See if you could get your server side to work under such conditions and get a feel for the operating system. Then you might setup a couple Linux boxes and a Mac or two to try out coding for the client side.
I think that if you start with a test server side of making everything work, you'll gain some indepth knowledge of *nix systems and thus be better prepared for creating a port for the Linux and Mac die-hards.
One thing you might try after Shiva launch is switching to OpenGL in the client on say Chaos. This would allow you, or more correctly your artists, to judge if the game looks and feels as nice as using DirectX. This will also help towards a possible port; you will no longer need to rewrite the engine.
Eh just my two Interstellar Kredits.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 03:23:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Samoht Werdna on 20/09/2004 03:27:00
Edited by: Samoht Werdna on 20/09/2004 03:26:06
Originally by: Jon Frimann
(edit: fixed mistypes)
Really?! You did?
On the subject of porting. I think probably the best solution, unless you happen to have more *nix knowledge than I think you do, would be to try using a *nix, probably Linux, on your Kali test cluster. See if you could get your server side to work under such conditions and get a feel for the operating system. Then you might setup a couple Linux boxes and a Mac or two to try out coding for the client side.
I think that if you start with a test server side of making everything work, you'll gain some indepth knowledge of *nix systems and thus be better prepared for creating a port for the Linux and Mac die-hards.
One thing you might try after Shiva launch is switching to OpenGL in the client on say Chaos. This would allow you, or more correctly your artists, to judge if the game looks and feels as nice as using DirectX. This will also help towards a possible port; you will no longer need to rewrite the engine.
Eh just my two Interstellar Kredits.
|
PaulAtreides
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 06:24:00 -
[11]
A switch to openGL would be most welcome too...
Want to work for me? |
PaulAtreides
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 06:24:00 -
[12]
A switch to openGL would be most welcome too...
Want to work for me? |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 06:34:00 -
[13]
If you guys could figure out how to get Eve to work on my SpectrumZX it'd be neat.....
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 06:34:00 -
[14]
If you guys could figure out how to get Eve to work on my SpectrumZX it'd be neat.....
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Sally
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 07:33:00 -
[15]
Linux Version!
I'd even move to Iceland and help with the port for Linux if CCP would pay my Coke/Pizza bills.
--
Stories: #1
--
|
Sally
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 07:33:00 -
[16]
Linux Version!
I'd even move to Iceland and help with the port for Linux if CCP would pay my Coke/Pizza bills.
--
Stories: #1
--
|
Jon Frimann
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 08:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Samoht Werdna
Edited by: Samoht Werdna on 20/09/2004 03:27:00
Edited by: Samoht Werdna on 20/09/2004 03:26:06
Originally by: Jon Frimann
(edit: fixed mistypes)
Really?! You did?
On the subject of porting. I think probably the best solution, unless you happen to have more *nix knowledge than I think you do, would be to try using a *nix, probably Linux, on your Kali test cluster. See if you could get your server side to work under such conditions and get a feel for the operating system. Then you might setup a couple Linux boxes and a Mac or two to try out coding for the client side.
I think that if you start with a test server side of making everything work, you'll gain some indepth knowledge of *nix systems and thus be better prepared for creating a port for the Linux and Mac die-hards.
One thing you might try after Shiva launch is switching to OpenGL in the client on say Chaos. This would allow you, or more correctly your artists, to judge if the game looks and feels as nice as using DirectX. This will also help towards a possible port; you will no longer need to rewrite the engine.
Eh just my two Interstellar Kredits.
Hey, no comment on spelling. I am not so good in english typing, but i am far better in Icelandic typeing.
Lost in Space |
Jon Frimann
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 08:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Samoht Werdna
Edited by: Samoht Werdna on 20/09/2004 03:27:00
Edited by: Samoht Werdna on 20/09/2004 03:26:06
Originally by: Jon Frimann
(edit: fixed mistypes)
Really?! You did?
On the subject of porting. I think probably the best solution, unless you happen to have more *nix knowledge than I think you do, would be to try using a *nix, probably Linux, on your Kali test cluster. See if you could get your server side to work under such conditions and get a feel for the operating system. Then you might setup a couple Linux boxes and a Mac or two to try out coding for the client side.
I think that if you start with a test server side of making everything work, you'll gain some indepth knowledge of *nix systems and thus be better prepared for creating a port for the Linux and Mac die-hards.
One thing you might try after Shiva launch is switching to OpenGL in the client on say Chaos. This would allow you, or more correctly your artists, to judge if the game looks and feels as nice as using DirectX. This will also help towards a possible port; you will no longer need to rewrite the engine.
Eh just my two Interstellar Kredits.
Hey, no comment on spelling. I am not so good in english typing, but i am far better in Icelandic typeing.
Lost in Space |
Arud
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 09:15:00 -
[19]
I think it would be a waste of time.
1. Linux users are usualy not big gamers since very few games work for them. Also Linux users have the knowledge of having dual boot so if they are big gamers they have a windows installation for gaming.
2. The Mac crowd is very small and is also not very big on gaming for the same reason as the linux users.
3. Best way would be to ask those who make the emulators for linux to make them support Eve.
... the only thing needing to be ported are maybe the server cluster, go from windows to something less power hungry
|
Arud
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 09:15:00 -
[20]
I think it would be a waste of time.
1. Linux users are usualy not big gamers since very few games work for them. Also Linux users have the knowledge of having dual boot so if they are big gamers they have a windows installation for gaming.
2. The Mac crowd is very small and is also not very big on gaming for the same reason as the linux users.
3. Best way would be to ask those who make the emulators for linux to make them support Eve.
... the only thing needing to be ported are maybe the server cluster, go from windows to something less power hungry
|
Arud
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 09:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sally
Linux Version!
I'd even move to Iceland and help with the port for Linux if CCP would pay my Coke/Pizza bills.
dont think ccp has that kind of money
|
Arud
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 09:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sally
Linux Version!
I'd even move to Iceland and help with the port for Linux if CCP would pay my Coke/Pizza bills.
dont think ccp has that kind of money
|
Lao Tzu
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 10:22:00 -
[23]
Yes, also given that the (Sony/IBM/Yoshiba) cell based machines are due out in the next year so having a Linux version could count for alot more players that it does now.
Also it's be a good excuse to stop using direct sound, which is not very good, try SDL instead.
|
Lao Tzu
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 10:22:00 -
[24]
Yes, also given that the (Sony/IBM/Yoshiba) cell based machines are due out in the next year so having a Linux version could count for alot more players that it does now.
Also it's be a good excuse to stop using direct sound, which is not very good, try SDL instead.
|
Laughter
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 10:44:00 -
[25]
Sorry Samoht, I think (hope? :-) ) they don't have any intention of changing the server side of things to Linux, just the client side.
|
Laughter
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 10:44:00 -
[26]
Sorry Samoht, I think (hope? :-) ) they don't have any intention of changing the server side of things to Linux, just the client side.
|
Cardassius
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 11:03:00 -
[27]
It's a pain in the arse to get linux -> mssql working properly btw ;) (At least i had some trouble)
ASCI Recruiting! |
Cardassius
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 11:03:00 -
[28]
It's a pain in the arse to get linux -> mssql working properly btw ;) (At least i had some trouble)
ASCI Recruiting! |
Lao Tzu
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 11:08:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Laughter
Sorry Samoht, I think (hope? :-) ) they don't have any intention of changing the server side of things to Linux, just the client side.
OMG! running a cluster on an OS that has real support for clusters, the horror!
TBH, Linux wouldn't be such a good idea for servers like this (betters that windows though), a comercial *nix would work well, but'll never happen.
|
Lao Tzu
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 11:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Laughter
Sorry Samoht, I think (hope? :-) ) they don't have any intention of changing the server side of things to Linux, just the client side.
OMG! running a cluster on an OS that has real support for clusters, the horror!
TBH, Linux wouldn't be such a good idea for servers like this (betters that windows though), a comercial *nix would work well, but'll never happen.
|
LNX Flocki
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 12:11:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Arud
I think it would be a waste of time.
1. Linux users are usualy not big gamers since very few games work for them. Also Linux users have the knowledge of having dual boot so if they are big gamers they have a windows installation for gaming.
I don't believe that's true. Most if not all Linux users I know (and that are quite a few) love games and play a lot. This also means that Linux users are usually more loyal to the few games they can actually run (for obvious reasons).
Originally by: Arud
2. The Mac crowd is very small and is also not very big on gaming for the same reason as the linux users.
Probably true, although I don't know many Mac users so this is just a guess. One thing is for sure, Mac users tend to be non-technical people and it seems that those people tend to play less computer games.
Originally by: Arud
3. Best way would be to ask those who make the emulators for linux to make them support Eve.
I'd love to see a native linux eve client, but only if this does not affect the development of the game itself (content & feature wise). Otherwise I totally agree with you.
Originally by: Arud
... the only thing needing to be ported are maybe the server cluster, go from windows to something less power hungry
The most insightfull comment in this thread so far - I hope the guy responsible for chosing windows to run the server part on has been thoroughly spanked by the Devs.
|
LNX Flocki
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 12:11:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Arud
I think it would be a waste of time.
1. Linux users are usualy not big gamers since very few games work for them. Also Linux users have the knowledge of having dual boot so if they are big gamers they have a windows installation for gaming.
I don't believe that's true. Most if not all Linux users I know (and that are quite a few) love games and play a lot. This also means that Linux users are usually more loyal to the few games they can actually run (for obvious reasons).
Originally by: Arud
2. The Mac crowd is very small and is also not very big on gaming for the same reason as the linux users.
Probably true, although I don't know many Mac users so this is just a guess. One thing is for sure, Mac users tend to be non-technical people and it seems that those people tend to play less computer games.
Originally by: Arud
3. Best way would be to ask those who make the emulators for linux to make them support Eve.
I'd love to see a native linux eve client, but only if this does not affect the development of the game itself (content & feature wise). Otherwise I totally agree with you.
Originally by: Arud
... the only thing needing to be ported are maybe the server cluster, go from windows to something less power hungry
The most insightfull comment in this thread so far - I hope the guy responsible for chosing windows to run the server part on has been thoroughly spanked by the Devs.
|
Daddl
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 15:38:00 -
[33]
Just saw this. A Linux client would be great indeed. Finally I'd be able to play a bit EVE while doing boring work! :)
|
Daddl
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 15:38:00 -
[34]
Just saw this. A Linux client would be great indeed. Finally I'd be able to play a bit EVE while doing boring work! :)
|
Admiral IceBlock
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 15:41:00 -
[35]
changing eve to opengl would be cool and would end most of the gfx lag. :P
and while we are at it, get a new "forum" server...
"We brake for nobody"
|
Admiral IceBlock
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 15:41:00 -
[36]
changing eve to opengl would be cool and would end most of the gfx lag. :P
and while we are at it, get a new "forum" server...
"We brake for nobody"
|
kieron
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 16:15:00 -
[37]
When the Devs port EVE over for my C-64.....
On a more serious note, it is good to see discussion on this progressing. Keep it flowing and who knows what may result.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
|
kieron
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 16:15:00 -
[38]
When the Devs port EVE over for my C-64.....
On a more serious note, it is good to see discussion on this progressing. Keep it flowing and who knows what may result.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
|
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 16:27:00 -
[39]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 20/09/2004 16:29:27
We do not need Linux/Mac OS clients. Even if you... whoever you are... think we need them -> we don't.
Installing Windows XP + drivers + Eve on a standard machine takes 2 to 3 hours at no cost if you have the equipment.
Porting the client for Linux/Mac users (an absolute minority!) would cost valuable development time, slowing down the progress of the game and delaying the implementation of content which this game badly needs, just to do a tiny fraction of Eve's playerbase a favor.
From an economical point of view this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!
Tbh... if it wasn't for all the die hard Linux freaks this discussion would've never came up 
Seriously you devs have better stuff to do than waste your time thinking about Linux and even Mac! Mac = Antichrist!!11oneoneeleven!!
Mai's Idealog |
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 16:27:00 -
[40]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 20/09/2004 16:29:27
We do not need Linux/Mac OS clients. Even if you... whoever you are... think we need them -> we don't.
Installing Windows XP + drivers + Eve on a standard machine takes 2 to 3 hours at no cost if you have the equipment.
Porting the client for Linux/Mac users (an absolute minority!) would cost valuable development time, slowing down the progress of the game and delaying the implementation of content which this game badly needs, just to do a tiny fraction of Eve's playerbase a favor.
From an economical point of view this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!
Tbh... if it wasn't for all the die hard Linux freaks this discussion would've never came up
Seriously you devs have better stuff to do than waste your time thinking about Linux and even Mac! Mac = Antichrist!!11oneoneeleven!!
Mai's Idealog |
Swedish Bob
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 16:39:00 -
[41]
I agree with people here that a linux or mac port is not going to really add anything. If CCP really wants to port it, focus on a console port. I don't see any good coming from having multiple clients though. It means that valuable time will be spent tracking down bugs that don't effect the main PC players. Maybe after Brahma consider it again.
|
Swedish Bob
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 16:39:00 -
[42]
I agree with people here that a linux or mac port is not going to really add anything. If CCP really wants to port it, focus on a console port. I don't see any good coming from having multiple clients though. It means that valuable time will be spent tracking down bugs that don't effect the main PC players. Maybe after Brahma consider it again.
|
Thraxll
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 17:08:00 -
[43]
I think a linux port is a great idea. I know I would use it, and I wouldn't be surprised if it drew in some more users.
That said, I'd really like to hear that projectile turrets are being worked on/have been fixed before you guys go thinking up more projects to invest your time and energy on 
Let's fix what's currently broken (and aggravating players) first, and then work on new stuff
"The long and short of it is that this game, or any game, is either going to be a kindergarten where it's safe and cuddly and secure and you can play with plush tigers, or it will be a harsh place, harsh but interesting and interesting because harsh, where you must take risks to succeed and so must everyone, since victory is tasteless without danger." - Raivn Akhama
|
Thraxll
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 17:08:00 -
[44]
I think a linux port is a great idea. I know I would use it, and I wouldn't be surprised if it drew in some more users.
That said, I'd really like to hear that projectile turrets are being worked on/have been fixed before you guys go thinking up more projects to invest your time and energy on
Let's fix what's currently broken (and aggravating players) first, and then work on new stuff
"The long and short of it is that this game, or any game, is either going to be a kindergarten where it's safe and cuddly and secure and you can play with plush tigers, or it will be a harsh place, harsh but interesting and interesting because harsh, where you must take risks to succeed and so must everyone, since victory is tasteless without danger." - Raivn Akhama
|
Ephemeron
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 19:37:00 -
[45]
Considering that porting and testing would take many months, I think dev time would be better spent on improving the game
if the game is more fun, more people join, less people leave. These people may outway the linux gamers, plus the overall customer satisfaction increases when game is improved
|
Ephemeron
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 19:37:00 -
[46]
Considering that porting and testing would take many months, I think dev time would be better spent on improving the game
if the game is more fun, more people join, less people leave. These people may outway the linux gamers, plus the overall customer satisfaction increases when game is improved
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 20:55:00 -
[47]
Originally by: LNX Flocki
Originally by: Arud
I think it would be a waste of time.
1. Linux users are usualy not big gamers since very few games work for them. Also Linux users have the knowledge of having dual boot so if they are big gamers they have a windows installation for gaming.
I don't believe that's true. Most if not all Linux users I know (and that are quite a few) love games and play a lot. This also means that Linux users are usually more loyal to the few games they can actually run (for obvious reasons).
Sorry Arud, but I have to side with LNX Flocki on this one. Anyone serious enough to use Linux is going to be a gamer. Why else would there be so many games that come with the standard Linux distribution? A good deal more than I see coming with Windows.
Originally by: LNX Flocki
Originally by: Arud
2. The Mac crowd is very small and is also not very big on gaming for the same reason as the linux users.
Probably true, although I don't know many Mac users so this is just a guess. One thing is for sure, Mac users tend to be non-technical people and it seems that those people tend to play less computer games.
Sorry I'd have to diagree with both of you on this one. Many Mac users I've known are quite technical and the majority are gamers as well. Games like Marathon and a myriad of other Bungie games come to mind.
Originally by: LNX Flocki
Originally by: Arud
3. Best way would be to ask those who make the emulators for linux to make them support Eve.
I'd love to see a native linux eve client, but only if this does not affect the development of the game itself (content & feature wise). Otherwise I totally agree with you.
I'd rather they spent time and money on making a version for Linux and Mac. Supporting the emulation does not encourage other developers to support the systems. You also do not have any guarantee of future changes being supported in a timely manner to keep the EVE community happy.
Originally by: LNX Flocki
Originally by: Arud
... the only thing needing to be ported are maybe the server cluster, go from windows to something less power hungry
The most insightfull comment in this thread so far - I hope the guy responsible for chosing windows to run the server part on has been thoroughly spanked by the Devs.
I'll assume you meant power hungry, as in resources. Personally, I see nothing wrong with having them run the server on Wintel, but I do think that some maintenance would be eliminated with a switch. At the very least you may see an increase in the performance of the current hardware.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 20:55:00 -
[48]
Originally by: LNX Flocki
Originally by: Arud
I think it would be a waste of time.
1. Linux users are usualy not big gamers since very few games work for them. Also Linux users have the knowledge of having dual boot so if they are big gamers they have a windows installation for gaming.
I don't believe that's true. Most if not all Linux users I know (and that are quite a few) love games and play a lot. This also means that Linux users are usually more loyal to the few games they can actually run (for obvious reasons).
Sorry Arud, but I have to side with LNX Flocki on this one. Anyone serious enough to use Linux is going to be a gamer. Why else would there be so many games that come with the standard Linux distribution? A good deal more than I see coming with Windows.
Originally by: LNX Flocki
Originally by: Arud
2. The Mac crowd is very small and is also not very big on gaming for the same reason as the linux users.
Probably true, although I don't know many Mac users so this is just a guess. One thing is for sure, Mac users tend to be non-technical people and it seems that those people tend to play less computer games.
Sorry I'd have to diagree with both of you on this one. Many Mac users I've known are quite technical and the majority are gamers as well. Games like Marathon and a myriad of other Bungie games come to mind.
Originally by: LNX Flocki
Originally by: Arud
3. Best way would be to ask those who make the emulators for linux to make them support Eve.
I'd love to see a native linux eve client, but only if this does not affect the development of the game itself (content & feature wise). Otherwise I totally agree with you.
I'd rather they spent time and money on making a version for Linux and Mac. Supporting the emulation does not encourage other developers to support the systems. You also do not have any guarantee of future changes being supported in a timely manner to keep the EVE community happy.
Originally by: LNX Flocki
Originally by: Arud
... the only thing needing to be ported are maybe the server cluster, go from windows to something less power hungry
The most insightfull comment in this thread so far - I hope the guy responsible for chosing windows to run the server part on has been thoroughly spanked by the Devs.
I'll assume you meant power hungry, as in resources. Personally, I see nothing wrong with having them run the server on Wintel, but I do think that some maintenance would be eliminated with a switch. At the very least you may see an increase in the performance of the current hardware.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.20 21:23:00 -
[49]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 20/09/2004 16:29:27
We do not need Linux/Mac OS clients. Even if you... whoever you are... think we need them -> we don't.
Installing Windows XP + drivers + Eve on a standard machine takes 2 to 3 hours at no cost if you have the equipment.
Porting the client for Linux/Mac users (an absolute minority!) would cost valuable development time, slowing down the progress of the game and delaying the implementation of content which this game badly needs, just to do a tiny fraction of Eve's playerbase a favor.
From an economical point of view this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!
Tbh... if it wasn't for all the die hard Linux freaks this discussion would've never came up
Seriously you devs have better stuff to do than waste your time thinking about Linux and even Mac! Mac = Antichrist!!11oneoneeleven!!
Wow can you say childish and ill conceived? Why don't we break down the problems in a point-by-point analysis.
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
We do not need Linux/Mac OS clients. Even if you... whoever you are... think we need them -> we don't.
Installing Windows XP + drivers + Eve on a standard machine takes 2 to 3 hours at no cost if you have the equipment.
While you are quite correct that the time involved in setting up Windows XP is minimal, it is far from free. The Linux users know what free is and to say that Linux is difficult to setup is pure foolishness. Linux has come a long way in its short life span and in some respects can be easier to setup than Windows. Also, unless you're going to be pirating, a license of Windows XP Professional, Home is worthless, will set you back at least $200 US.
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Porting the client for Linux/Mac users (an absolute minority!) would cost valuable development time, slowing down the progress of the game and delaying the implementation of content which this game badly needs, just to do a tiny fraction of Eve's playerbase a favor.
From an economical point of view this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!
First, Linux users may only be a tiny fraction because they choose not to use Windows at all; thusly they cannot run EVE. Regardless this is ridiculous logic. Say you purchase a new top-of-the-line graphics card, but upon installing it EVE won't work. Now since you're one of few people that may even be using this card, why should EVE bother to try and support it? I mean it's not economically worth it.
Second, development time is something better left in CCP's very capable hands.
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Tbh... if it wasn't for all the die hard Linux freaks this discussion would've never came up
Seriously you devs have better stuff to do than waste your time thinking about Linux and even Mac! Mac = Antichrist!!11oneoneeleven!!
Well that's just plain childish; so I won't bother analyzing it.
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Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.20 21:23:00 -
[50]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 20/09/2004 16:29:27
We do not need Linux/Mac OS clients. Even if you... whoever you are... think we need them -> we don't.
Installing Windows XP + drivers + Eve on a standard machine takes 2 to 3 hours at no cost if you have the equipment.
Porting the client for Linux/Mac users (an absolute minority!) would cost valuable development time, slowing down the progress of the game and delaying the implementation of content which this game badly needs, just to do a tiny fraction of Eve's playerbase a favor.
From an economical point of view this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!
Tbh... if it wasn't for all the die hard Linux freaks this discussion would've never came up
Seriously you devs have better stuff to do than waste your time thinking about Linux and even Mac! Mac = Antichrist!!11oneoneeleven!!
Wow can you say childish and ill conceived? Why don't we break down the problems in a point-by-point analysis.
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
We do not need Linux/Mac OS clients. Even if you... whoever you are... think we need them -> we don't.
Installing Windows XP + drivers + Eve on a standard machine takes 2 to 3 hours at no cost if you have the equipment.
While you are quite correct that the time involved in setting up Windows XP is minimal, it is far from free. The Linux users know what free is and to say that Linux is difficult to setup is pure foolishness. Linux has come a long way in its short life span and in some respects can be easier to setup than Windows. Also, unless you're going to be pirating, a license of Windows XP Professional, Home is worthless, will set you back at least $200 US.
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Porting the client for Linux/Mac users (an absolute minority!) would cost valuable development time, slowing down the progress of the game and delaying the implementation of content which this game badly needs, just to do a tiny fraction of Eve's playerbase a favor.
From an economical point of view this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!
First, Linux users may only be a tiny fraction because they choose not to use Windows at all; thusly they cannot run EVE. Regardless this is ridiculous logic. Say you purchase a new top-of-the-line graphics card, but upon installing it EVE won't work. Now since you're one of few people that may even be using this card, why should EVE bother to try and support it? I mean it's not economically worth it.
Second, development time is something better left in CCP's very capable hands.
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Tbh... if it wasn't for all the die hard Linux freaks this discussion would've never came up
Seriously you devs have better stuff to do than waste your time thinking about Linux and even Mac! Mac = Antichrist!!11oneoneeleven!!
Well that's just plain childish; so I won't bother analyzing it.
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Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.20 21:36:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Cardassius
It's a pain in the arse to get linux -> mssql working properly btw ;) (At least i had some trouble)
Well I know for a fact that there are plenty of database alternatives. Many of these alternatives run quite well on Linux, including Oracle and PostgreSQL. Oracle has gone so far as to convert their infrastructure entirely to Linux, because of the performance gain.
Originally by: Lao Tzu
Originally by: Laughter
Sorry Samoht, I think (hope? :-) ) they don't have any intention of changing the server side of things to Linux, just the client side.
OMG! running a cluster on an OS that has real support for clusters, the horror!
TBH, Linux wouldn't be such a good idea for servers like this (betters that windows though), a comercial *nix would work well, but'll never happen.
Why the disdain for Linux on the server side? I currently only use Linux for servers and it has yet to fail me. Either way I merely suggested it as a possible way to gain a great deal of insight into its inner workings.
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Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.20 21:36:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Cardassius
It's a pain in the arse to get linux -> mssql working properly btw ;) (At least i had some trouble)
Well I know for a fact that there are plenty of database alternatives. Many of these alternatives run quite well on Linux, including Oracle and PostgreSQL. Oracle has gone so far as to convert their infrastructure entirely to Linux, because of the performance gain.
Originally by: Lao Tzu
Originally by: Laughter
Sorry Samoht, I think (hope? :-) ) they don't have any intention of changing the server side of things to Linux, just the client side.
OMG! running a cluster on an OS that has real support for clusters, the horror!
TBH, Linux wouldn't be such a good idea for servers like this (betters that windows though), a comercial *nix would work well, but'll never happen.
Why the disdain for Linux on the server side? I currently only use Linux for servers and it has yet to fail me. Either way I merely suggested it as a possible way to gain a great deal of insight into its inner workings.
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Par'Gellen
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Posted - 2004.09.20 22:55:00 -
[53]
Wasting time to port EVE Online to Mac OS or Linux is the worst idea I have ever witnessed in print. Personally I see it as a slap in the face and a total disregard for what is a good use of developer time. I find it literally offensive.
Let's get a poll going for players that DON'T want the devs' time wasted on something like this.
---------------------------------
"Guardian Of The Cheese" |
Par'Gellen
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Posted - 2004.09.20 22:55:00 -
[54]
Wasting time to port EVE Online to Mac OS or Linux is the worst idea I have ever witnessed in print. Personally I see it as a slap in the face and a total disregard for what is a good use of developer time. I find it literally offensive.
Let's get a poll going for players that DON'T want the devs' time wasted on something like this.
---------------------------------
"Guardian Of The Cheese" |
S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.20 23:14:00 -
[55]
As a developer that has to support multiple operating systems, it a hassal.
Unless the game was designed from the get go to simultaniously support both or all three platforms with your own interface layer then there's no point to spend time an redesign.
The number of people you could gain as customers on linux and Mac operating systems would not justify the development, testing, and maintanance costs.
Trust me.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2004.09.20 23:14:00 -
[56]
As a developer that has to support multiple operating systems, it a hassal.
Unless the game was designed from the get go to simultaniously support both or all three platforms with your own interface layer then there's no point to spend time an redesign.
The number of people you could gain as customers on linux and Mac operating systems would not justify the development, testing, and maintanance costs.
Trust me.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.09.21 01:23:00 -
[57]
Originally by: S'Daria
As a developer that has to support multiple operating systems, it a hassal.
Unless the game was designed from the get go to simultaniously support both or all three platforms with your own interface layer then there's no point to spend time an redesign.
The number of people you could gain as customers on linux and Mac operating systems would not justify the development, testing, and maintanance costs.
Trust me.
There ya go Samoht  I'll take the "childish" part as a compliment, well knowing that we still don't need Linux clients... no matter how much you love Linux or whatever OS rocks your boat
Mai's Idealog |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.09.21 01:23:00 -
[58]
Originally by: S'Daria
As a developer that has to support multiple operating systems, it a hassal.
Unless the game was designed from the get go to simultaniously support both or all three platforms with your own interface layer then there's no point to spend time an redesign.
The number of people you could gain as customers on linux and Mac operating systems would not justify the development, testing, and maintanance costs.
Trust me.
There ya go Samoht I'll take the "childish" part as a compliment, well knowing that we still don't need Linux clients... no matter how much you love Linux or whatever OS rocks your boat
Mai's Idealog |
Nac MacFeegle
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Posted - 2004.09.21 03:45:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Par'Gellen
Wasting time to port EVE Online to Mac OS or Linux is the worst idea I have ever witnessed in print. Personally I see it as a slap in the face and a total disregard for what is a good use of developer time. I find it literally offensive.
Let's get a poll going for players that DON'T want the devs' time wasted on something like this.
And I see your comments as a slap in the face and offensive to anyone who would rather not play on Windows.
Is it possible that we all could be any more childish about this?
Why do people make it sound like a porting project would involve the entire development team? Hell, one or two people and some outside contractors would get the job done and leave the rest of CCP to work on the server-side of things and continue tweaking the PC client.
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Nac MacFeegle
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Posted - 2004.09.21 03:45:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Par'Gellen
Wasting time to port EVE Online to Mac OS or Linux is the worst idea I have ever witnessed in print. Personally I see it as a slap in the face and a total disregard for what is a good use of developer time. I find it literally offensive.
Let's get a poll going for players that DON'T want the devs' time wasted on something like this.
And I see your comments as a slap in the face and offensive to anyone who would rather not play on Windows.
Is it possible that we all could be any more childish about this?
Why do people make it sound like a porting project would involve the entire development team? Hell, one or two people and some outside contractors would get the job done and leave the rest of CCP to work on the server-side of things and continue tweaking the PC client.
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Ooke
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Posted - 2004.09.21 04:22:00 -
[61]
I'd throw my 2 Isk in but we all know what opinions are like.
if it doesn't impact regular development, the devs can do whatever they feel they want or need to do *shrugs*
Ooke: May Contain Nuts |
Ooke
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Posted - 2004.09.21 04:22:00 -
[62]
I'd throw my 2 Isk in but we all know what opinions are like.
if it doesn't impact regular development, the devs can do whatever they feel they want or need to do *shrugs*
Ooke: May Contain Nuts |
FitturTittur
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Posted - 2004.09.21 04:39:00 -
[63]
Edited by: FitturTittur on 21/09/2004 04:46:30
Originally by: Swedish Bob
I agree with people here that a linux or mac port is not going to really add anything. If CCP really wants to port it, focus on a console port. I don't see any good coming from having multiple clients though. It means that valuable time will be spent tracking down bugs that don't effect the main PC players. Maybe after Brahma consider it again.
Phew!! I really thought you said "console port" there...this must be a glitch in the forum....
edit: "playing eve with a xbox-controller" now chew on that I doubledare you
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FitturTittur
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Posted - 2004.09.21 04:39:00 -
[64]
Edited by: FitturTittur on 21/09/2004 04:46:30
Originally by: Swedish Bob
I agree with people here that a linux or mac port is not going to really add anything. If CCP really wants to port it, focus on a console port. I don't see any good coming from having multiple clients though. It means that valuable time will be spent tracking down bugs that don't effect the main PC players. Maybe after Brahma consider it again.
Phew!! I really thought you said "console port" there...this must be a glitch in the forum....
edit: "playing eve with a xbox-controller" now chew on that I doubledare you
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Jon Frimann
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Posted - 2004.09.21 05:56:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Jon Frimann on 21/09/2004 06:56:17
I think making an Mac and Linux port whoud add big deal to the players of eve, since many pepole just don't run windows or don't own an PC. But may be intrested in the game. But cannot play becose they won't want to get windows (linux pepole how did burn there windwos cdrom and did enjoy it) or just don't want to buy PC (Mac Pepole).
My guess is that is alot of pepole, but the pickup might start slow. Since this game is only for windwos now and pepole might be unaware of this idea.
Lost in Space |
Jon Frimann
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Posted - 2004.09.21 05:56:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Jon Frimann on 21/09/2004 06:56:17
I think making an Mac and Linux port whoud add big deal to the players of eve, since many pepole just don't run windows or don't own an PC. But may be intrested in the game. But cannot play becose they won't want to get windows (linux pepole how did burn there windwos cdrom and did enjoy it) or just don't want to buy PC (Mac Pepole).
My guess is that is alot of pepole, but the pickup might start slow. Since this game is only for windwos now and pepole might be unaware of this idea.
Lost in Space |
Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.21 06:52:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Jon Frimann
I think making an Mac and Linux port whoud add big deal to the players of eve, since many pepole just don't run windows or don't own an PC. But may be intrested in the game. But cannot play becose they won't want to get windows (linux pepole how did burn there windwos cdrom and did enjoy it) or just don't want to by PC (Mac Pepole).
My guess is that is alot of pepole, but the pickup might start slow. Since this game is only for windwos now and pepole might be unaware of this idea.
Indeed I did not even touch the Mac people being as anti-PC as the PC people are anti-Mac. Let's face it that battle has ended in a stalemate. I think the Mac people deserve a port simply because they've withstood the barrage of the PC for as long as they have.
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Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.21 06:52:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Jon Frimann
I think making an Mac and Linux port whoud add big deal to the players of eve, since many pepole just don't run windows or don't own an PC. But may be intrested in the game. But cannot play becose they won't want to get windows (linux pepole how did burn there windwos cdrom and did enjoy it) or just don't want to by PC (Mac Pepole).
My guess is that is alot of pepole, but the pickup might start slow. Since this game is only for windwos now and pepole might be unaware of this idea.
Indeed I did not even touch the Mac people being as anti-PC as the PC people are anti-Mac. Let's face it that battle has ended in a stalemate. I think the Mac people deserve a port simply because they've withstood the barrage of the PC for as long as they have.
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Fuse
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Posted - 2004.09.21 07:55:00 -
[69]
CCP considering such a thing makes them a far better gaming company then ANY other gaming company in my viewpoint. I would say stick with Linux if you develop an alternative. There are versions Linux versions for almost ANY computer out there. I donÆt know how WinEx ports to these computers but it may in the future. Throwing together a small recommended distribution as well as helping people do multi-boot would make their monkeys stand up and salute. You could add a forum for that.
I am so jealous of you guys you are doing what I can only dream about doing.
0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
Fuse
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Posted - 2004.09.21 07:55:00 -
[70]
CCP considering such a thing makes them a far better gaming company then ANY other gaming company in my viewpoint. I would say stick with Linux if you develop an alternative. There are versions Linux versions for almost ANY computer out there. I donÆt know how WinEx ports to these computers but it may in the future. Throwing together a small recommended distribution as well as helping people do multi-boot would make their monkeys stand up and salute. You could add a forum for that.
I am so jealous of you guys you are doing what I can only dream about doing.
0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
Sigellius
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Posted - 2004.09.21 08:34:00 -
[71]
Interesting that no-one thus far seems to have mentioned Icculus of icculus.org, or the attendant Linux Gamer's FAQ that gets maintained there by a mate of mine (among others).
I'd like a Linux native client.
I suspect also that the servers would benefit from being ported, but I doubt that's what Hellmar was talking about in his blog - it seems faintly insane to embark on such a thing without any inhouse Linux talent, which is something that as far as I know, CCP don't currently have? Not sure. From memory, they didn't back in 2000 - things might have changed.
I doubt it (porting the server) would make business sense unless the performance gains outweighed the development cost (and recovery cost of any ****-ups during the migration) - you don't get new customers by changing what your servers run, you get them by giving your customers more choice when it comes to the client they use.
I suppose there's the marketing spin you could get out of it too - be the first MMOG that caters to Mac and Linux gamers. Or did Savage do that too? I don't recall. First major MMOG, then. [;)]
I do recall posts from when this came up before, by Solaris (I think - this was almost three years ago now!), that the graphics subsystem of Eve is nicely modular. Loosely coupled, tightly integrated, all of that good stuff. This was in reference to talking about how they could replace it as technology moves on. So, anyway, if that's still the case, I'd speculate the graphics subsystem of the client would be the hardest part of the work. What else constitutes the client? Not terribly much - a resource file reader, a communication-to-server subsystem, and the user interface (which will be part of the graphics system).
Netrek, while obviously not being anywhere in the same ballpark as a MMOG, managed to use an open source client. What the community did (from what I understand; again, hazy memories) was to RSA-sign the executables - the server would only accept connections from "blessed" clients (that is, those with a valid digital signature). This prevented "borg" clients from connecting to servers - a borg client being one that had been compiled from source that had been edited to insert cheats or whatever.
Of course, I doubt CCP would go for open-source; it'd make sense to keep it in-house and third party contractors under NDA. Having said that, it would be pretty damn cool if they did [;)]
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Sigellius
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Posted - 2004.09.21 08:34:00 -
[72]
Interesting that no-one thus far seems to have mentioned Icculus of icculus.org, or the attendant Linux Gamer's FAQ that gets maintained there by a mate of mine (among others).
I'd like a Linux native client.
I suspect also that the servers would benefit from being ported, but I doubt that's what Hellmar was talking about in his blog - it seems faintly insane to embark on such a thing without any inhouse Linux talent, which is something that as far as I know, CCP don't currently have? Not sure. From memory, they didn't back in 2000 - things might have changed.
I doubt it (porting the server) would make business sense unless the performance gains outweighed the development cost (and recovery cost of any ****-ups during the migration) - you don't get new customers by changing what your servers run, you get them by giving your customers more choice when it comes to the client they use.
I suppose there's the marketing spin you could get out of it too - be the first MMOG that caters to Mac and Linux gamers. Or did Savage do that too? I don't recall. First major MMOG, then. [;)]
I do recall posts from when this came up before, by Solaris (I think - this was almost three years ago now!), that the graphics subsystem of Eve is nicely modular. Loosely coupled, tightly integrated, all of that good stuff. This was in reference to talking about how they could replace it as technology moves on. So, anyway, if that's still the case, I'd speculate the graphics subsystem of the client would be the hardest part of the work. What else constitutes the client? Not terribly much - a resource file reader, a communication-to-server subsystem, and the user interface (which will be part of the graphics system).
Netrek, while obviously not being anywhere in the same ballpark as a MMOG, managed to use an open source client. What the community did (from what I understand; again, hazy memories) was to RSA-sign the executables - the server would only accept connections from "blessed" clients (that is, those with a valid digital signature). This prevented "borg" clients from connecting to servers - a borg client being one that had been compiled from source that had been edited to insert cheats or whatever.
Of course, I doubt CCP would go for open-source; it'd make sense to keep it in-house and third party contractors under NDA. Having said that, it would be pretty damn cool if they did [;)]
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jukriamrr
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Posted - 2004.09.21 10:00:00 -
[73]
Edited by: jukriamrr on 21/09/2004 10:04:42
Edited by: jukriamrr on 21/09/2004 10:04:12
Edited by: jukriamrr on 21/09/2004 10:02:38
Client porting -> bad idea (waste of time, imho, and with potentially a very weak return in money - because that's what it's all about...). Let's face it, nearly 95%+ of gamers use x86 platforms (and that means Windows). The occasional linux or mac users are exceptions. Not allowing them to play is like spitting in their faces, granted; but postponing new features and new developments, because all this takes a lot of resources, is like spitting in that of PC users - and you don't want that, do you?
Server porting -> good idea, whether to whatever linux or solaris can be found our there.
My 2 isk worth...:)
edit: in spite of all this, I would like a linux client. But my wallet is not my heart... yet :o)
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jukriamrr
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Posted - 2004.09.21 10:00:00 -
[74]
Edited by: jukriamrr on 21/09/2004 10:04:42
Edited by: jukriamrr on 21/09/2004 10:04:12
Edited by: jukriamrr on 21/09/2004 10:02:38
Client porting -> bad idea (waste of time, imho, and with potentially a very weak return in money - because that's what it's all about...). Let's face it, nearly 95%+ of gamers use x86 platforms (and that means Windows). The occasional linux or mac users are exceptions. Not allowing them to play is like spitting in their faces, granted; but postponing new features and new developments, because all this takes a lot of resources, is like spitting in that of PC users - and you don't want that, do you?
Server porting -> good idea, whether to whatever linux or solaris can be found our there.
My 2 isk worth...:)
edit: in spite of all this, I would like a linux client. But my wallet is not my heart... yet :o)
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Speknek
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Posted - 2004.09.21 12:13:00 -
[75]
Go for a linux client. Alot of games dont support it and that really s*cks. If you want to game, your always limited to windows or your choice in games to play is very small. More game developers should work on clients for other os's, giving gamers the choise on which os they want to use.
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Speknek
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Posted - 2004.09.21 12:13:00 -
[76]
Go for a linux client. Alot of games dont support it and that really s*cks. If you want to game, your always limited to windows or your choice in games to play is very small. More game developers should work on clients for other os's, giving gamers the choise on which os they want to use.
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Del'Keron
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Posted - 2004.09.21 12:28:00 -
[77]
I don't get it. I really really don't get it. I've gamed on both Windows AND Linux. How in the "flippity do-da" can anyone here say that Linux is a better gaming platform or that they would WANT to play games on a Linux machine if they had a choice of doing it on Windows?! Is it just because you don't like Microsoft and see them as a big mean scary company? Grow up for Pete's sake!
Don't get me wrong. I'm an open minded kind of guy and have given Linux it's chance. HA! I've given it MANY chances and it has failed to even come close to Windows. I wanted to like it. I really did. However, the truth is it's clunky and unintuitive, slow, and vulnerable. Even running on a computer that is twice as fast as my Windows XP Pro gaming rig it failed to impress me in any way. Not to mention being freaking nearly impossible to remove from my hard drive after contracting some virus just a few seconds after I plugged it in to the Net. Thank the gods for Windows Update. I couldn't find a Linux Update site. Well, not one that made any sense anyway. All you would need is to get a keylogger on your Linux machine and you'd basically be giving your EVE username and password out to anyone that wanted to look for it.
It looks to me like all the anti-Windows guys here are thinking about those silly "home" versions of Windows like 95, 98, 98SE, and ME. Forget those. They were garbage. Throw in a copy of XP Pro and game like the rest of humanity.
I have no experience with Mac's (and never will) so I can't say one way or the other about them.
That said, I think it's pretty obvious that porting to other OS's when you already have it running on the one that 99% of us are already using is a silly waste of time. |
Del'Keron
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Posted - 2004.09.21 12:28:00 -
[78]
I don't get it. I really really don't get it. I've gamed on both Windows AND Linux. How in the "flippity do-da" can anyone here say that Linux is a better gaming platform or that they would WANT to play games on a Linux machine if they had a choice of doing it on Windows?! Is it just because you don't like Microsoft and see them as a big mean scary company? Grow up for Pete's sake!
Don't get me wrong. I'm an open minded kind of guy and have given Linux it's chance. HA! I've given it MANY chances and it has failed to even come close to Windows. I wanted to like it. I really did. However, the truth is it's clunky and unintuitive, slow, and vulnerable. Even running on a computer that is twice as fast as my Windows XP Pro gaming rig it failed to impress me in any way. Not to mention being freaking nearly impossible to remove from my hard drive after contracting some virus just a few seconds after I plugged it in to the Net. Thank the gods for Windows Update. I couldn't find a Linux Update site. Well, not one that made any sense anyway. All you would need is to get a keylogger on your Linux machine and you'd basically be giving your EVE username and password out to anyone that wanted to look for it.
It looks to me like all the anti-Windows guys here are thinking about those silly "home" versions of Windows like 95, 98, 98SE, and ME. Forget those. They were garbage. Throw in a copy of XP Pro and game like the rest of humanity.
I have no experience with Mac's (and never will) so I can't say one way or the other about them.
That said, I think it's pretty obvious that porting to other OS's when you already have it running on the one that 99% of us are already using is a silly waste of time. |
meowcat
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Posted - 2004.09.21 12:59:00 -
[79]
Waste of limited resources. Spend the effort fixing bugs and adding new content.
Eve runs on Macs already (via virtual PC) and anyone with the know-how to setup Linux can also create a dual boot windows o/s (and most of them do anyway for >half the other games on the market)
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meowcat
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Posted - 2004.09.21 12:59:00 -
[80]
Waste of limited resources. Spend the effort fixing bugs and adding new content.
Eve runs on Macs already (via virtual PC) and anyone with the know-how to setup Linux can also create a dual boot windows o/s (and most of them do anyway for >half the other games on the market)
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.09.21 13:25:00 -
[81]
Seriously... I think a lot of you guys actually don't realise the implications of such a port. CCP would have to manage 3 different clients in addition to the several branches they already do have (Castor/Shiva/Kali/Whatever), adding a ****load of work to the entire project management part.
This is not about Linux or Mac. It's about making deep and fundamental changes to the entire developement process.
CCP already struggle managing their windows client with its several branches which is obvious if you look at all the delays we've put up with. How in the hell could you assume that adding two more clients for two other OS's make the job any easier?
I can understand that many of you would love to see a Linux client and personally I have nothing against such an idea, but I know for a fact that should this ever happen the game will not prosper as fast as it does today.
Now considering the effort it takes to set up a Windows machine I do not believe that we need any OS ports right now. Maybe in future when we have 150.000 subscribers and Kieron has something better than an old C-64 to play Eve on
Just because it's cool doesn't mean we need it.
Mai's Idealog |
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 13:25:00 -
[82]
Seriously... I think a lot of you guys actually don't realise the implications of such a port. CCP would have to manage 3 different clients in addition to the several branches they already do have (Castor/Shiva/Kali/Whatever), adding a ****load of work to the entire project management part.
This is not about Linux or Mac. It's about making deep and fundamental changes to the entire developement process.
CCP already struggle managing their windows client with its several branches which is obvious if you look at all the delays we've put up with. How in the hell could you assume that adding two more clients for two other OS's make the job any easier?
I can understand that many of you would love to see a Linux client and personally I have nothing against such an idea, but I know for a fact that should this ever happen the game will not prosper as fast as it does today.
Now considering the effort it takes to set up a Windows machine I do not believe that we need any OS ports right now. Maybe in future when we have 150.000 subscribers and Kieron has something better than an old C-64 to play Eve on
Just because it's cool doesn't mean we need it.
Mai's Idealog |
Jon Frimann
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 14:22:00 -
[83]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Seriously... I think a lot of you guys actually don't realise the implications of such a port. CCP would have to manage 3 different clients in addition to the several branches they already do have (Castor/Shiva/Kali/Whatever), adding a ****load of work to the entire project management part.
This is not about Linux or Mac. It's about making deep and fundamental changes to the entire developement process.
CCP already struggle managing their windows client with its several branches which is obvious if you look at all the delays we've put up with. How in the hell could you assume that adding two more clients for two other OS's make the job any easier?
I can understand that many of you would love to see a Linux client and personally I have nothing against such an idea, but I know for a fact that should this ever happen the game will not prosper as fast as it does today.
Now considering the effort it takes to set up a Windows machine I do not believe that we need any OS ports right now. Maybe in future when we have 150.000 subscribers and Kieron has something better than an old C-64 to play Eve on
Just because it's cool doesn't mean we need it.
They shoud do it as Blizzard does it, the client can be Mac and you can still use the files from the pc cdrom for that matter (NOTE!!: I think it works like that, becose when Blizzard did change the client from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X only few files where updated).
They only need to port the *.dll and the *.exe files. The pytion files might only need an minor adjustment to the new files.
If they do this, there simple solution for them (this idea is something that they can use) based on idea that i just got. They shoud pack the game in this format.
eve.exe ----- gamefile.ccp < this file whoud contain all the files needed, so they whoud be able make an simple install whit 1 to 2 files (depending on there needs).
Quake 3 does this, most of the file he uses are in one single file that is extraced into computer memory when used, then addon and mods come as diffrent package files.
Also, updating the game this way whoud be relative easy, then linux and MacOS X users whoud simple just download the 1 file (expample) and just copy it over the file in (linux example) to /usr/local/games/eve/gamefile/gamefile.ccp and just overwrite it. Since the executable file whoud just read the content of the gamefile.ccp and display the version number from that file, so updating the eve executable file whoud almost never happen.
This is just an idea, there are many way to do this in simple way.
Lost in Space |
Jon Frimann
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 14:22:00 -
[84]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Seriously... I think a lot of you guys actually don't realise the implications of such a port. CCP would have to manage 3 different clients in addition to the several branches they already do have (Castor/Shiva/Kali/Whatever), adding a ****load of work to the entire project management part.
This is not about Linux or Mac. It's about making deep and fundamental changes to the entire developement process.
CCP already struggle managing their windows client with its several branches which is obvious if you look at all the delays we've put up with. How in the hell could you assume that adding two more clients for two other OS's make the job any easier?
I can understand that many of you would love to see a Linux client and personally I have nothing against such an idea, but I know for a fact that should this ever happen the game will not prosper as fast as it does today.
Now considering the effort it takes to set up a Windows machine I do not believe that we need any OS ports right now. Maybe in future when we have 150.000 subscribers and Kieron has something better than an old C-64 to play Eve on
Just because it's cool doesn't mean we need it.
They shoud do it as Blizzard does it, the client can be Mac and you can still use the files from the pc cdrom for that matter (NOTE!!: I think it works like that, becose when Blizzard did change the client from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X only few files where updated).
They only need to port the *.dll and the *.exe files. The pytion files might only need an minor adjustment to the new files.
If they do this, there simple solution for them (this idea is something that they can use) based on idea that i just got. They shoud pack the game in this format.
eve.exe ----- gamefile.ccp < this file whoud contain all the files needed, so they whoud be able make an simple install whit 1 to 2 files (depending on there needs).
Quake 3 does this, most of the file he uses are in one single file that is extraced into computer memory when used, then addon and mods come as diffrent package files.
Also, updating the game this way whoud be relative easy, then linux and MacOS X users whoud simple just download the 1 file (expample) and just copy it over the file in (linux example) to /usr/local/games/eve/gamefile/gamefile.ccp and just overwrite it. Since the executable file whoud just read the content of the gamefile.ccp and display the version number from that file, so updating the eve executable file whoud almost never happen.
This is just an idea, there are many way to do this in simple way.
Lost in Space |
lythos miralbar
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 15:02:00 -
[85]
ok.. the formula goes like this..
NetGain = (a+b+c)- (d+e)
a = how many people (unix and windows users) that will hear about eve for the first time and join as a direct result of press from supporting two or more clients.
b = how many unix gamers are out there that do not already play eve but would do if there was a unix version.
c = how many windows gamers that are going to leave but do not because they can play eve on thier unix machines
d = the people that will be lost from the current player pool due to hold ups in development/fixing of existing content.
e = the number of people to that will be lost due to future hold ups in game development due to supporting more than one client.
From a purely business point of view it'll be a tough one to call, but as a player I'd say stick with windows for the time being, get Shiva out, then do nothing else for 6 months but bug fix...
Once that is done then think about a unix/mac client..
|
lythos miralbar
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 15:02:00 -
[86]
ok.. the formula goes like this..
NetGain = (a+b+c)- (d+e)
a = how many people (unix and windows users) that will hear about eve for the first time and join as a direct result of press from supporting two or more clients.
b = how many unix gamers are out there that do not already play eve but would do if there was a unix version.
c = how many windows gamers that are going to leave but do not because they can play eve on thier unix machines
d = the people that will be lost from the current player pool due to hold ups in development/fixing of existing content.
e = the number of people to that will be lost due to future hold ups in game development due to supporting more than one client.
From a purely business point of view it'll be a tough one to call, but as a player I'd say stick with windows for the time being, get Shiva out, then do nothing else for 6 months but bug fix...
Once that is done then think about a unix/mac client..
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 17:51:00 -
[87]
Originally by: lythos miralbar
ok.. the formula goes like this..
NetGain = (a+b+c)- (d+e)
Originally by: jukriamrr
Client porting -> bad idea (waste of time, imho, and with potentially a very weak return in money - because that's what it's all about...).
Originally by: meowcat
Waste of limited resources. Spend the effort fixing bugs and adding new content.
Okay would you all quit with the it's going to take too much time and money . Do you have no faith in CCP that they can determine their own abilities in that regards? Do you truly think they would abandon everything else just to port the client? This isn't even what they're asking. They want to know whether you'd be interested, not how much time it's going to take them. So let's stay on subject.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 17:51:00 -
[88]
Originally by: lythos miralbar
ok.. the formula goes like this..
NetGain = (a+b+c)- (d+e)
Originally by: jukriamrr
Client porting -> bad idea (waste of time, imho, and with potentially a very weak return in money - because that's what it's all about...).
Originally by: meowcat
Waste of limited resources. Spend the effort fixing bugs and adding new content.
Okay would you all quit with the it's going to take too much time and money . Do you have no faith in CCP that they can determine their own abilities in that regards? Do you truly think they would abandon everything else just to port the client? This isn't even what they're asking. They want to know whether you'd be interested, not how much time it's going to take them. So let's stay on subject.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 17:59:00 -
[89]
Originally by: jukriamrr
Let's face it, nearly 95%+ of gamers use x86 platforms (and that means Windows). The occasional linux or mac users are exceptions. Not allowing them to play is like spitting in their faces, granted; but postponing new features and new developments, because all this takes a lot of resources, is like spitting in that of PC users - and you don't want that, do you?
Server porting -> good idea, whether to whatever linux or solaris can be found our there.
My 2 isk worth...:)
x86 is the main architecture of Linux as well.
As far as the Linux on servers thing goes, I figure it could help them cut some costs. They'd be able to tailor it to run EVE and only EVE. That's something I think they can handle as they are already helping develop Stackless Python so that they can utilize it for this game. I also feel that Linux will free up more processing cycles for the CPU intensive calculations that EVE does.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 17:59:00 -
[90]
Originally by: jukriamrr
Let's face it, nearly 95%+ of gamers use x86 platforms (and that means Windows). The occasional linux or mac users are exceptions. Not allowing them to play is like spitting in their faces, granted; but postponing new features and new developments, because all this takes a lot of resources, is like spitting in that of PC users - and you don't want that, do you?
Server porting -> good idea, whether to whatever linux or solaris can be found our there.
My 2 isk worth...:)
x86 is the main architecture of Linux as well.
As far as the Linux on servers thing goes, I figure it could help them cut some costs. They'd be able to tailor it to run EVE and only EVE. That's something I think they can handle as they are already helping develop Stackless Python so that they can utilize it for this game. I also feel that Linux will free up more processing cycles for the CPU intensive calculations that EVE does.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 18:06:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Del'Keron
I don't get it. I really really don't get it. I've gamed on both Windows AND Linux. How in the "flippity do-da" can anyone here say that Linux is a better gaming platform or that they would WANT to play games on a Linux machine if they had a choice of doing it on Windows?! Is it just because you don't like Microsoft and see them as a big mean scary company? Grow up for Pete's sake!
Don't get me wrong. I'm an open minded kind of guy and have given Linux it's chance. HA! I've given it MANY chances and it has failed to even come close to Windows. I wanted to like it. I really did. However, the truth is it's clunky and unintuitive, slow, and vulnerable. Even running on a computer that is twice as fast as my Windows XP Pro gaming rig it failed to impress me in any way. Not to mention being freaking nearly impossible to remove from my hard drive after contracting some virus just a few seconds after I plugged it in to the Net. Thank the gods for Windows Update. I couldn't find a Linux Update site. Well, not one that made any sense anyway. All you would need is to get a keylogger on your Linux machine and you'd basically be giving your EVE username and password out to anyone that wanted to look for it.
It looks to me like all the anti-Windows guys here are thinking about those silly "home" versions of Windows like 95, 98, 98SE, and ME. Forget those. They were garbage. Throw in a copy of XP Pro and game like the rest of humanity.
I have no experience with Mac's (and never will) so I can't say one way or the other about them.
That said, I think it's pretty obvious that porting to other OS's when you already have it running on the one that 99% of us are already using is a silly waste of time.
Perhaps we could sit down sometime and figure out what your problems were with Linux? I've found it to be very intuitive and there are many automatic update services. These services merely are programs not webpages, as the Linux folk don't have things like ActiveX to screw with.
I've also never managed to contract a virus on Linux so maybe you could expand on that one. I think your fear of a keylogger works on pretty much any system though.
Your last comment well let's just say it's not very logical.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 18:06:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Del'Keron
I don't get it. I really really don't get it. I've gamed on both Windows AND Linux. How in the "flippity do-da" can anyone here say that Linux is a better gaming platform or that they would WANT to play games on a Linux machine if they had a choice of doing it on Windows?! Is it just because you don't like Microsoft and see them as a big mean scary company? Grow up for Pete's sake!
Don't get me wrong. I'm an open minded kind of guy and have given Linux it's chance. HA! I've given it MANY chances and it has failed to even come close to Windows. I wanted to like it. I really did. However, the truth is it's clunky and unintuitive, slow, and vulnerable. Even running on a computer that is twice as fast as my Windows XP Pro gaming rig it failed to impress me in any way. Not to mention being freaking nearly impossible to remove from my hard drive after contracting some virus just a few seconds after I plugged it in to the Net. Thank the gods for Windows Update. I couldn't find a Linux Update site. Well, not one that made any sense anyway. All you would need is to get a keylogger on your Linux machine and you'd basically be giving your EVE username and password out to anyone that wanted to look for it.
It looks to me like all the anti-Windows guys here are thinking about those silly "home" versions of Windows like 95, 98, 98SE, and ME. Forget those. They were garbage. Throw in a copy of XP Pro and game like the rest of humanity.
I have no experience with Mac's (and never will) so I can't say one way or the other about them.
That said, I think it's pretty obvious that porting to other OS's when you already have it running on the one that 99% of us are already using is a silly waste of time.
Perhaps we could sit down sometime and figure out what your problems were with Linux? I've found it to be very intuitive and there are many automatic update services. These services merely are programs not webpages, as the Linux folk don't have things like ActiveX to screw with.
I've also never managed to contract a virus on Linux so maybe you could expand on that one. I think your fear of a keylogger works on pretty much any system though.
Your last comment well let's just say it's not very logical.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 18:10:00 -
[93]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Seriously... I think a lot of you guys actually don't realise the implications of such a port. CCP would have to manage 3 different clients in addition to the several branches they already do have (Castor/Shiva/Kali/Whatever), adding a ****load of work to the entire project management part.
This is not about Linux or Mac. It's about making deep and fundamental changes to the entire developement process.
CCP already struggle managing their windows client with its several branches which is obvious if you look at all the delays we've put up with. How in the hell could you assume that adding two more clients for two other OS's make the job any easier?
I can understand that many of you would love to see a Linux client and personally I have nothing against such an idea, but I know for a fact that should this ever happen the game will not prosper as fast as it does today.
Now considering the effort it takes to set up a Windows machine I do not believe that we need any OS ports right now. Maybe in future when we have 150.000 subscribers and Kieron has something better than an old C-64 to play Eve on
Just because it's cool doesn't mean we need it.
You seem to have a lot of energy to put towards shooting this down. How about trying instead to explain ways it could work? Something along the lines of my original post, but perhaps with a better definition and detail.
Just as a brain stretching exercise.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 18:10:00 -
[94]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Seriously... I think a lot of you guys actually don't realise the implications of such a port. CCP would have to manage 3 different clients in addition to the several branches they already do have (Castor/Shiva/Kali/Whatever), adding a ****load of work to the entire project management part.
This is not about Linux or Mac. It's about making deep and fundamental changes to the entire developement process.
CCP already struggle managing their windows client with its several branches which is obvious if you look at all the delays we've put up with. How in the hell could you assume that adding two more clients for two other OS's make the job any easier?
I can understand that many of you would love to see a Linux client and personally I have nothing against such an idea, but I know for a fact that should this ever happen the game will not prosper as fast as it does today.
Now considering the effort it takes to set up a Windows machine I do not believe that we need any OS ports right now. Maybe in future when we have 150.000 subscribers and Kieron has something better than an old C-64 to play Eve on
Just because it's cool doesn't mean we need it.
You seem to have a lot of energy to put towards shooting this down. How about trying instead to explain ways it could work? Something along the lines of my original post, but perhaps with a better definition and detail.
Just as a brain stretching exercise.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 18:14:00 -
[95]
There's one thing I'd like to know. Of the die-hard Mac users out there how many of you prefer OSX over OS9? This could help a lot in the steps to porting as OSX is more *nix based. I can see this easing the porting burden as there would be a lot of similar concepts and code.
Let us know.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 18:14:00 -
[96]
There's one thing I'd like to know. Of the die-hard Mac users out there how many of you prefer OSX over OS9? This could help a lot in the steps to porting as OSX is more *nix based. I can see this easing the porting burden as there would be a lot of similar concepts and code.
Let us know.
|
Earthan
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 21:01:00 -
[97]
I think its a bad idea ,Eve is great but really it can be so much more, throw all your forces towards improving it.Clean bugs add features,balance.
As considering 2 major other os Linux and Macos:
For Linux nearly all linux users that have graphic environement have also somwhere the much disdained windows installed.
For MacOS well it might be more needed but seriously how much do you think yo uwould get more players ?
Imho all computer gamers that are likely to play Eve have Windows.
I know it would be nice, it woudl be interesting for programmers but proapbly would not bring you nearly any new subscribers and you would loose plenty of time you could devote to improving Eve.
Please forget it.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 21:01:00 -
[98]
I think its a bad idea ,Eve is great but really it can be so much more, throw all your forces towards improving it.Clean bugs add features,balance.
As considering 2 major other os Linux and Macos:
For Linux nearly all linux users that have graphic environement have also somwhere the much disdained windows installed.
For MacOS well it might be more needed but seriously how much do you think yo uwould get more players ?
Imho all computer gamers that are likely to play Eve have Windows.
I know it would be nice, it woudl be interesting for programmers but proapbly would not bring you nearly any new subscribers and you would loose plenty of time you could devote to improving Eve.
Please forget it.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Del'Keron
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 23:12:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Samoht Werdna
Perhaps we could sit down sometime and figure out what your problems were with Linux? I've found it to be very intuitive and there are many automatic update services. These services merely are programs not webpages, as the Linux folk don't have things like ActiveX to screw with.
I've also never managed to contract a virus on Linux so maybe you could expand on that one. I think your fear of a keylogger works on pretty much any system though.
Your last comment well let's just say it's not very logical.
Why would I want to sit down and waste any length of time trying to learn the in's and out's of Linux when I'm already good to go with Windows?
If you don't think Linux is vulnerable to viruses just pop on over to www.google.com and punch "Linux virus" into the search box.
I don't worry about keyloggers on Windows since I can keep it secure with auto-updates. With Linux I worry quite a lot.
Oh and my comment was perfectly logical. |
Del'Keron
|
Posted - 2004.09.21 23:12:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Samoht Werdna
Perhaps we could sit down sometime and figure out what your problems were with Linux? I've found it to be very intuitive and there are many automatic update services. These services merely are programs not webpages, as the Linux folk don't have things like ActiveX to screw with.
I've also never managed to contract a virus on Linux so maybe you could expand on that one. I think your fear of a keylogger works on pretty much any system though.
Your last comment well let's just say it's not very logical.
Why would I want to sit down and waste any length of time trying to learn the in's and out's of Linux when I'm already good to go with Windows?
If you don't think Linux is vulnerable to viruses just pop on over to www.google.com and punch "Linux virus" into the search box.
I don't worry about keyloggers on Windows since I can keep it secure with auto-updates. With Linux I worry quite a lot.
Oh and my comment was perfectly logical. |
Nalias
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 01:41:00 -
[101]
A Linux port would be awesome! I only have one Windows box left in my entire setup, and I'd love to dump it with a passion!
|
Nalias
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 01:41:00 -
[102]
A Linux port would be awesome! I only have one Windows box left in my entire setup, and I'd love to dump it with a passion!
|
Hido
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 02:36:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Cardassius
It's a pain in the arse to get linux -> mssql working properly btw ;) (At least i had some trouble)
Why bother using MSSQL when you could use PostgreSQL, MySQL or Oracle? I am not sure of what CCP is using on the server side but one thing I can tell you is that when it comes to scaling a *nix OS will 0wn Windows anyday!
Porting to a OS like linux or in my case FreeBSD  would be great for the following reasons.
1. Help out the OSS movement which could win a good couple of votes from the g33ks.
2. The guys who really have a say in the gaming industry like id (doom3), Blizzard (WoW) and so on are starting to realise that its an potential market and are taking steps moving towards it.
Also there is a couple of other suggestions I would make. When it comes to MMO, Asia happens to be a huge market in which there is so much profit to be made yet only a few companies are exploiting it. In Japan I have tried converting a few people to try and play EVE and they do give it a try, they really like the game and all but with everything that your going to interact with being in English it starts to get a bit hard for them.
As far as I know the only game that is even remotely "space based" happens to be Universal Century - Gundam Online which I am currently beta testing for and what I can tell you is that there is a lot of interest in the game. If anybody has seen any Anime I am sure you guys would have realised that there is a lot of mecha/space based stories out there cause thats what the people like and I would think with a translated client and also using UTF-8 for text input could provide CCP with a lot more customers.
China, Korea, Japan and Taiwan is ripe and ready to be picked so how about it CCP? With enough effort I would expect you would easily be able to double the current numbers.
Living the life
Havin it large
Welcome to the land of the rising sun |
Hido
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 02:36:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Cardassius
It's a pain in the arse to get linux -> mssql working properly btw ;) (At least i had some trouble)
Why bother using MSSQL when you could use PostgreSQL, MySQL or Oracle? I am not sure of what CCP is using on the server side but one thing I can tell you is that when it comes to scaling a *nix OS will 0wn Windows anyday!
Porting to a OS like linux or in my case FreeBSD would be great for the following reasons.
1. Help out the OSS movement which could win a good couple of votes from the g33ks.
2. The guys who really have a say in the gaming industry like id (doom3), Blizzard (WoW) and so on are starting to realise that its an potential market and are taking steps moving towards it.
Also there is a couple of other suggestions I would make. When it comes to MMO, Asia happens to be a huge market in which there is so much profit to be made yet only a few companies are exploiting it. In Japan I have tried converting a few people to try and play EVE and they do give it a try, they really like the game and all but with everything that your going to interact with being in English it starts to get a bit hard for them.
As far as I know the only game that is even remotely "space based" happens to be Universal Century - Gundam Online which I am currently beta testing for and what I can tell you is that there is a lot of interest in the game. If anybody has seen any Anime I am sure you guys would have realised that there is a lot of mecha/space based stories out there cause thats what the people like and I would think with a translated client and also using UTF-8 for text input could provide CCP with a lot more customers.
China, Korea, Japan and Taiwan is ripe and ready to be picked so how about it CCP? With enough effort I would expect you would easily be able to double the current numbers.
Living the life
Havin it large
Welcome to the land of the rising sun |
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 05:04:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Del'Keron
Why would I want to sit down and waste any length of time trying to learn the in's and out's of Linux when I'm already good to go with Windows?
If you don't think Linux is vulnerable to viruses just pop on over to www.google.com and punch "Linux virus" into the search box.
I don't worry about keyloggers on Windows since I can keep it secure with auto-updates. With Linux I worry quite a lot.
Oh and my comment was perfectly logical.
This has gone way off-topic so let's just drop it.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 05:04:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Del'Keron
Why would I want to sit down and waste any length of time trying to learn the in's and out's of Linux when I'm already good to go with Windows?
If you don't think Linux is vulnerable to viruses just pop on over to www.google.com and punch "Linux virus" into the search box.
I don't worry about keyloggers on Windows since I can keep it secure with auto-updates. With Linux I worry quite a lot.
Oh and my comment was perfectly logical.
This has gone way off-topic so let's just drop it.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 05:12:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Hido
I would think with a translated client and also using UTF-8 for text input could provide CCP with a lot more customers.
China, Korea, Japan and Taiwan is ripe and ready to be picked so how about it CCP? With enough effort I would expect you would easily be able to double the current numbers.
Agreed it will be much easier to implement now than later. The boards could still stay English-only, but we do have a lot of other languages being used in game. Having native UTF-8 and a localized UI would be a great boon. I'm sure there are plenty of people that you could get to volunteer if language barriers become a problem. One thing to be careful of though is the massive influx of new characters that opening the game up to the Asian market could bring if it catches on.
|
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 05:12:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Hido
I would think with a translated client and also using UTF-8 for text input could provide CCP with a lot more customers.
China, Korea, Japan and Taiwan is ripe and ready to be picked so how about it CCP? With enough effort I would expect you would easily be able to double the current numbers.
Agreed it will be much easier to implement now than later. The boards could still stay English-only, but we do have a lot of other languages being used in game. Having native UTF-8 and a localized UI would be a great boon. I'm sure there are plenty of people that you could get to volunteer if language barriers become a problem. One thing to be careful of though is the massive influx of new characters that opening the game up to the Asian market could bring if it catches on.
|
Hido
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 07:18:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Samoht Werdna
Agreed it will be much easier to implement now than later. The boards could still stay English-only, but we do have a lot of other languages being used in game. Having native UTF-8 and a localized UI would be a great boon. I'm sure there are plenty of people that you could get to volunteer if language barriers become a problem. One thing to be careful of though is the massive influx of new characters that opening the game up to the Asian market could bring if it catches on.
Massive influxes of people to start off with could become trouble but when you consider the pro's against the con's it could only mean good for the game. Extra players means more money for CCP in turn more hardware to run servers and more devs they can employ. Too many players could hurt the "one world design" if it starts to get to the levels of Linage but that will take a while to get to so for now it could just mean fresh meat for the grinder 
Living the life
Havin it large
Welcome to the land of the rising sun |
Hido
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 07:18:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Samoht Werdna
Agreed it will be much easier to implement now than later. The boards could still stay English-only, but we do have a lot of other languages being used in game. Having native UTF-8 and a localized UI would be a great boon. I'm sure there are plenty of people that you could get to volunteer if language barriers become a problem. One thing to be careful of though is the massive influx of new characters that opening the game up to the Asian market could bring if it catches on.
Massive influxes of people to start off with could become trouble but when you consider the pro's against the con's it could only mean good for the game. Extra players means more money for CCP in turn more hardware to run servers and more devs they can employ. Too many players could hurt the "one world design" if it starts to get to the levels of Linage but that will take a while to get to so for now it could just mean fresh meat for the grinder
Living the life
Havin it large
Welcome to the land of the rising sun |
Juniper
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 14:48:00 -
[111]
I think everyone more or less accepts that the bulk of the work in porting EVE to other platforms would be the 3D engine. The game logic etc is written in Stackless Python, which is portable already.
I saw a video a while ago (somewhere on this website) with Hellmar explaining that what he has planned for EVE would take 7 years to implement (or come in 7 stages, I forget which now ). The 2D interface is getting an overhaul / re-write with Shiva, so its reasonable to assume that there will be a re-write of the 3D engine at some point in the future. It already has problems (flickering stations, grid exploit, to name but two).
The 3D engine code might be so complex & mystical that only a few (if any) left at CCP actually fully understand its inner workings, so it reaches black box status. That can happen in any long-running development project, and is not a criticism levelled at CCP should that be the case. So a re-write can make economic sense for that reason alone.
I think at that point, a resurrection of this thread would make sense. Supporting 2 platforms doesn't automatically make twice as much development support work, there is a bell curve effect which actually levels off the more platforms you support as your code becomes more robust.
Just my ú0.02 worth.
-- Gotta sell my stuff...
|
Juniper
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 14:48:00 -
[112]
I think everyone more or less accepts that the bulk of the work in porting EVE to other platforms would be the 3D engine. The game logic etc is written in Stackless Python, which is portable already.
I saw a video a while ago (somewhere on this website) with Hellmar explaining that what he has planned for EVE would take 7 years to implement (or come in 7 stages, I forget which now ). The 2D interface is getting an overhaul / re-write with Shiva, so its reasonable to assume that there will be a re-write of the 3D engine at some point in the future. It already has problems (flickering stations, grid exploit, to name but two).
The 3D engine code might be so complex & mystical that only a few (if any) left at CCP actually fully understand its inner workings, so it reaches black box status. That can happen in any long-running development project, and is not a criticism levelled at CCP should that be the case. So a re-write can make economic sense for that reason alone.
I think at that point, a resurrection of this thread would make sense. Supporting 2 platforms doesn't automatically make twice as much development support work, there is a bell curve effect which actually levels off the more platforms you support as your code becomes more robust.
Just my ú0.02 worth.
-- Gotta sell my stuff...
|
Papolytic
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 19:26:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Juniper
The 3D engine code might be so complex & mystical that only a few (if any) left at CCP actually fully understand its inner workings, so it reaches black box status.
The only thing I'm pretty sure of regarding CCP is that no one gets out alive. If they every worked on anything there, they're either still working on it, or are at the bottom of the Skeiarßrsandur river.
I love the idea of a linux port, and with my usual finesse and aplomb, not to mention my tactful, gentle nature, I don't care what it takes. I'd like to see that port done as soon as possible over all your cold dead bodies. You can even port over the screwed up nvidia rendering of minmat stations.
After the linux port, I suggest a Casio watch port, a palmpilot port, and a lead pencil port. Imagine the convenience of being trapped in an elevator with nothing but a zippo lighter (shades of Mr. T!) and a lead pencil and being able to logon and do whatever horrible things you usually do in Eve.
Thank you very kindly,
Papolytic.
|
Papolytic
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 19:26:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Juniper
The 3D engine code might be so complex & mystical that only a few (if any) left at CCP actually fully understand its inner workings, so it reaches black box status.
The only thing I'm pretty sure of regarding CCP is that no one gets out alive. If they every worked on anything there, they're either still working on it, or are at the bottom of the Skeiarßrsandur river.
I love the idea of a linux port, and with my usual finesse and aplomb, not to mention my tactful, gentle nature, I don't care what it takes. I'd like to see that port done as soon as possible over all your cold dead bodies. You can even port over the screwed up nvidia rendering of minmat stations.
After the linux port, I suggest a Casio watch port, a palmpilot port, and a lead pencil port. Imagine the convenience of being trapped in an elevator with nothing but a zippo lighter (shades of Mr. T!) and a lead pencil and being able to logon and do whatever horrible things you usually do in Eve.
Thank you very kindly,
Papolytic.
|
MysticNZ
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 23:54:00 -
[115]
How do you plan to port a directx 9 game to linux?
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
MysticNZ
|
Posted - 2004.09.22 23:54:00 -
[116]
How do you plan to port a directx 9 game to linux?
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 03:12:00 -
[117]
Originally by: MysticNZ
How do you plan to port a directx 9 game to linux?
Did you read any of the other posts?
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Samoht Werdna
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 03:12:00 -
[118]
Originally by: MysticNZ
How do you plan to port a directx 9 game to linux?
Did you read any of the other posts?
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Skelator
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 03:21:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Par'Gellen
Wasting time to port EVE Online to Mac OS or Linux is the worst idea I have ever witnessed in print. Personally I see it as a slap in the face and a total disregard for what is a good use of developer time. I find it literally offensive.
Let's get a poll going for players that DON'T want the devs' time wasted on something like this.
Wow I thought you Converts of the Church of Bill Gates only FUDDED the newgroups..
Sad to see Microsoft sending some of its Fear Uncertainty and doubt Troops here..
No FLAMES Intended just know a Brainwashed M$ Convert when I see one.
BTW next year IBM is releasing a AS400 midrange server series that runs Entirely on Linux..
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
Skelator
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 03:21:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Par'Gellen
Wasting time to port EVE Online to Mac OS or Linux is the worst idea I have ever witnessed in print. Personally I see it as a slap in the face and a total disregard for what is a good use of developer time. I find it literally offensive.
Let's get a poll going for players that DON'T want the devs' time wasted on something like this.
Wow I thought you Converts of the Church of Bill Gates only FUDDED the newgroups..
Sad to see Microsoft sending some of its Fear Uncertainty and doubt Troops here..
No FLAMES Intended just know a Brainwashed M$ Convert when I see one.
BTW next year IBM is releasing a AS400 midrange server series that runs Entirely on Linux..
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
Skelator
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 03:25:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Del'Keron
Originally by: Samoht Werdna
Perhaps we could sit down sometime and figure out what your problems were with Linux? I've found it to be very intuitive and there are many automatic update services. These services merely are programs not webpages, as the Linux folk don't have things like ActiveX to screw with.
I've also never managed to contract a virus on Linux so maybe you could expand on that one. I think your fear of a keylogger works on pretty much any system though.
Your last comment well let's just say it's not very logical.
Why would I want to sit down and waste any length of time trying to learn the in's and out's of Linux when I'm already good to go with Windows?
If you don't think Linux is vulnerable to viruses just pop on over to www.google.com and punch "Linux virus" into the search box.
I don't worry about keyloggers on Windows since I can keep it secure with auto-updates. With Linux I worry quite a lot.
Oh and my comment was perfectly logical.
When are you M$ TROOLLS going to realize that that Argument is 10 years out of date?
Suse and Mandrake install just as fast if not faster and just as simple as M$ does.
Now lets put this topic back on track.. You M$ FuddersAlso like to nuke and lead off topic any good threads about OSS
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
Skelator
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 03:25:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Del'Keron
Originally by: Samoht Werdna
Perhaps we could sit down sometime and figure out what your problems were with Linux? I've found it to be very intuitive and there are many automatic update services. These services merely are programs not webpages, as the Linux folk don't have things like ActiveX to screw with.
I've also never managed to contract a virus on Linux so maybe you could expand on that one. I think your fear of a keylogger works on pretty much any system though.
Your last comment well let's just say it's not very logical.
Why would I want to sit down and waste any length of time trying to learn the in's and out's of Linux when I'm already good to go with Windows?
If you don't think Linux is vulnerable to viruses just pop on over to www.google.com and punch "Linux virus" into the search box.
I don't worry about keyloggers on Windows since I can keep it secure with auto-updates. With Linux I worry quite a lot.
Oh and my comment was perfectly logical.
When are you M$ TROOLLS going to realize that that Argument is 10 years out of date?
Suse and Mandrake install just as fast if not faster and just as simple as M$ does.
Now lets put this topic back on track.. You M$ FuddersAlso like to nuke and lead off topic any good threads about OSS
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
meowcat
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 08:43:00 -
[123]
i suppose it was inevitable that this thread degrade into a 'my-dad's-biggeren-you-dad' thing between those who hate microsoft and those who don't.
for me the question is purely this: what would be the most productive use of developer time / effort / resources?
i couldn't give a toss about which operating system people use, each has its merits and shortfalls... the key points from my perspective:
- you can already run Eve on a Mac with virtual PC or other emulators
- most Linux users who are into gaming already have a windows dual boot partition
the benefits of a Linux or Mac port do not justify the developer time IMHO
bug fixing + new content, thats what we need the most.
the rest of the guff on this thread is mindless partisan nonsense IMHO
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meowcat
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Posted - 2004.09.23 08:43:00 -
[124]
i suppose it was inevitable that this thread degrade into a 'my-dad's-biggeren-you-dad' thing between those who hate microsoft and those who don't.
for me the question is purely this: what would be the most productive use of developer time / effort / resources?
i couldn't give a toss about which operating system people use, each has its merits and shortfalls... the key points from my perspective:
- you can already run Eve on a Mac with virtual PC or other emulators
- most Linux users who are into gaming already have a windows dual boot partition
the benefits of a Linux or Mac port do not justify the developer time IMHO
bug fixing + new content, thats what we need the most.
the rest of the guff on this thread is mindless partisan nonsense IMHO
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Zenst
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 16:19:00 -
[125]
cool, bigest problem is your DX9 dependancy you have atm. the python is pretty much portable as is. Now had you gone OpenGL then you would have had an easier life. Not to up on the GFX front so there may be a DX compatable wrapper to enable easier quick porting to other patforms.
I did see this a week or so ago mentioned on /. and did booky it as it looked kinda interesting and eve did spring to mind. Check it out:
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/
"The Irrlicht Engine is an open source high performance realtime 3D engine written and usable in C++ and also available for .NET languages. It is completely cross-platform, using D3D, OpenGL and its own software renderer, and has all of the state-of-the-art features which can be found in commercial 3d engines.
We've got a huge active community, and there are lots of games in development that use the engine. You can find enhancements for Irrlicht all over the web, like alternative terrain renderers, portal renderers, world layers, tutorials, editors, bindings for java, perl, ruby, python, and so on. And best of all: It's completely free."
Also have a chat with Apple, sure they'd be more than happy to get your game running on there nice kit, helps them sell a few more upgrades/box's and helps you.
|
Zenst
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 16:19:00 -
[126]
cool, bigest problem is your DX9 dependancy you have atm. the python is pretty much portable as is. Now had you gone OpenGL then you would have had an easier life. Not to up on the GFX front so there may be a DX compatable wrapper to enable easier quick porting to other patforms.
I did see this a week or so ago mentioned on /. and did booky it as it looked kinda interesting and eve did spring to mind. Check it out:
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/
"The Irrlicht Engine is an open source high performance realtime 3D engine written and usable in C++ and also available for .NET languages. It is completely cross-platform, using D3D, OpenGL and its own software renderer, and has all of the state-of-the-art features which can be found in commercial 3d engines.
We've got a huge active community, and there are lots of games in development that use the engine. You can find enhancements for Irrlicht all over the web, like alternative terrain renderers, portal renderers, world layers, tutorials, editors, bindings for java, perl, ruby, python, and so on. And best of all: It's completely free."
Also have a chat with Apple, sure they'd be more than happy to get your game running on there nice kit, helps them sell a few more upgrades/box's and helps you.
|
Zenst
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 16:41:00 -
[127]
AS for the backend, well you would have ALOT of work there if you wanted to port it, My adviose would be peacemeal it. Gradualy port parts across. The M$ SQL would be the first port of call, and for something on this scale I would probably look at DB2 though one of the more cheaper alternatives might suite depending on the feature set you require. If you did descide to do a linux port I'd suggest youi colllar IBM for some FREE help given the grief they have bestowed upon you in the past and the amount of $$$'s your've thrown there way. But from a comercial perspective it would have to be staggered as that would be a major bit of work. CLient wise as I mentioned is more easily contained and ported to a common code base. Cost effectiveness wise the return if marketed and planed out right would be viable even with a small growth alone. As there are people out there who are so anti M$ they are probably missing out on eve purly out of stuburness. Mac wise its a case of games whilst not the main priority tend to become mroe and mroe appealing and they are generaly more community oriented so MMOPG's such as eve would do well. As mentioned there are emulators around and perhaps one approach to slowly and cheaply test the waters would be to team up with one of the Virtual Machine emulator companies and get a locked in version that is a miniscual cost to the full blown one that is tied to just running eve. THis would entail little work on the emulators part, more sales for them and negligable work for yourselves. THis approach would then enable you to viably know the gain you can get and offering a solution to those that you would otherwise miss out on. ALthough the approach of a locked in emulator to one application is semi new and not fully explioted; it is an approach that would as i sadi enable the best of both worlds with minamal outlay. You can then see a bit clearly who puts there money were the mouth is and from there see the viability to giving them a full 5 course meal ;). ALso in the meantime gradualy plan towards a mroe common platform. On a side note if your realy looking at all these platforms why not look at consoles, As I see it an XBOX port might be albeit sacralidge from a purest percspective a more easier port and viable return.
Z.
--
Brain for hire
--
|
Zenst
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 16:41:00 -
[128]
AS for the backend, well you would have ALOT of work there if you wanted to port it, My adviose would be peacemeal it. Gradualy port parts across. The M$ SQL would be the first port of call, and for something on this scale I would probably look at DB2 though one of the more cheaper alternatives might suite depending on the feature set you require. If you did descide to do a linux port I'd suggest youi colllar IBM for some FREE help given the grief they have bestowed upon you in the past and the amount of $$$'s your've thrown there way. But from a comercial perspective it would have to be staggered as that would be a major bit of work. CLient wise as I mentioned is more easily contained and ported to a common code base. Cost effectiveness wise the return if marketed and planed out right would be viable even with a small growth alone. As there are people out there who are so anti M$ they are probably missing out on eve purly out of stuburness. Mac wise its a case of games whilst not the main priority tend to become mroe and mroe appealing and they are generaly more community oriented so MMOPG's such as eve would do well. As mentioned there are emulators around and perhaps one approach to slowly and cheaply test the waters would be to team up with one of the Virtual Machine emulator companies and get a locked in version that is a miniscual cost to the full blown one that is tied to just running eve. THis would entail little work on the emulators part, more sales for them and negligable work for yourselves. THis approach would then enable you to viably know the gain you can get and offering a solution to those that you would otherwise miss out on. ALthough the approach of a locked in emulator to one application is semi new and not fully explioted; it is an approach that would as i sadi enable the best of both worlds with minamal outlay. You can then see a bit clearly who puts there money were the mouth is and from there see the viability to giving them a full 5 course meal ;). ALso in the meantime gradualy plan towards a mroe common platform. On a side note if your realy looking at all these platforms why not look at consoles, As I see it an XBOX port might be albeit sacralidge from a purest percspective a more easier port and viable return.
Z.
--
Brain for hire
--
|
Anice
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 17:31:00 -
[129]
Porting it to other operating systems would be a waste of valuable dev-time, which could be better used for improving the game.
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you" - Carl Gustav Jung |
Anice
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 17:31:00 -
[130]
Porting it to other operating systems would be a waste of valuable dev-time, which could be better used for improving the game.
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you" - Carl Gustav Jung |
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 23:19:00 -
[131]
Quote:
You seem to have a lot of energy to put towards shooting this down. How about trying instead to explain ways it could work? Something along the lines of my original post, but perhaps with a better definition and detail.
Oh you want something constructive? Well here it is:
First of all they need to implement the features I've been waiting for a little more than a year now. Features that were supposed to be in 3 weeks after I started playing the retail which was just a few weeks after launch (hope you get the point...).
When that's done... and as soon as everything that was supposed to be in the game even way before launch is done they can start thinking about Linux clients in my judgement.
Now for the "you seem to have a lot of energy" part:
Sure I have a lot of energy, but it's not like moving my fingers across the keyboard to write down some lines of opinion requires a lot of that.
Quote:
Just as a brain stretching exercise.
You actually stretch your brain? Won't it start to bleed or something? And you need a drilling machine... or do you pull it out of your nose?
j/k
Mai's Idealog |
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2004.09.23 23:19:00 -
[132]
Quote:
You seem to have a lot of energy to put towards shooting this down. How about trying instead to explain ways it could work? Something along the lines of my original post, but perhaps with a better definition and detail.
Oh you want something constructive? Well here it is:
First of all they need to implement the features I've been waiting for a little more than a year now. Features that were supposed to be in 3 weeks after I started playing the retail which was just a few weeks after launch (hope you get the point...).
When that's done... and as soon as everything that was supposed to be in the game even way before launch is done they can start thinking about Linux clients in my judgement.
Now for the "you seem to have a lot of energy" part:
Sure I have a lot of energy, but it's not like moving my fingers across the keyboard to write down some lines of opinion requires a lot of that.
Quote:
Just as a brain stretching exercise.
You actually stretch your brain? Won't it start to bleed or something? And you need a drilling machine... or do you pull it out of your nose?
j/k
Mai's Idealog |
Brigitte Cyrne
|
Posted - 2004.09.25 16:11:00 -
[133]
Although I have a dual boot configuration on my system so that I can boot Windows for playing games, I probably spend around 95% of my time in GNU/Linux. If there were a Linux EVE client, I'd probably spend at least twice as much time playing EVE as I currently do, and would be eternally grateful if the client was ported to Linux. I'd also be more than happy to assist in the creation of such a port, if that were possible. |
Brigitte Cyrne
|
Posted - 2004.09.25 16:11:00 -
[134]
Although I have a dual boot configuration on my system so that I can boot Windows for playing games, I probably spend around 95% of my time in GNU/Linux. If there were a Linux EVE client, I'd probably spend at least twice as much time playing EVE as I currently do, and would be eternally grateful if the client was ported to Linux. I'd also be more than happy to assist in the creation of such a port, if that were possible. |
Ishcar
|
Posted - 2004.10.09 13:01:00 -
[135]
I personally would like to see a Linux Client available. As most of you are aware, The latter MAC's on the market basically run Linux. Thus a Linux client would server both x86 and Mac Computers.
If ccp was able to design the code so that a standard compile by CCP was capable of producing both a Windows Client and a Linux Client, that would be fantastic ie write the code once => Bingo multiple type clients just by using a different compile engine.
To maintane CCPs intelectual property it could even create a serverside compiler so a small program collects the details off your computer then feeds them to compile server where it compiles from all the settings or grabs a cached version of the compile for DL by the user.
It would seem that from a programming perspective ccp use python modules. This I believe is quite portable to other platforms. Like what has been mentioned before the eve client is made up of modules, most of the modules would not take long to prep for multi-client code.
Yes it will take CCP time, that is the key thing to many ppls concern - however at the end of the day, what is CCP wanting to achieve? More users; Status (First to do this or that); Better platform penetration; Expansion into a new market; Proving users choice; Not tying itself too strongly to just one vender; Stay ahead of paradignm shifts...
There are many reasons why CCP could produce a Linux type client. There are many reasons why CCP should not produce a Linux type client. ie. Time away from its current ingame projects; additional cost; simpler product support; few bugs to track and/or fix.
I myself would like to see a Linux client. For me it allows me to choose the vender I want without being cohersed into software piracy. Linux provides a true multi-tasking environment unlike Windows 2000 or XP - important when running 3 clients (less lag).
Better use of computer resources on my network.
Regards
Ishcar
|
Ishcar
|
Posted - 2004.10.09 13:01:00 -
[136]
I personally would like to see a Linux Client available. As most of you are aware, The latter MAC's on the market basically run Linux. Thus a Linux client would server both x86 and Mac Computers.
If ccp was able to design the code so that a standard compile by CCP was capable of producing both a Windows Client and a Linux Client, that would be fantastic ie write the code once => Bingo multiple type clients just by using a different compile engine.
To maintane CCPs intelectual property it could even create a serverside compiler so a small program collects the details off your computer then feeds them to compile server where it compiles from all the settings or grabs a cached version of the compile for DL by the user.
It would seem that from a programming perspective ccp use python modules. This I believe is quite portable to other platforms. Like what has been mentioned before the eve client is made up of modules, most of the modules would not take long to prep for multi-client code.
Yes it will take CCP time, that is the key thing to many ppls concern - however at the end of the day, what is CCP wanting to achieve? More users; Status (First to do this or that); Better platform penetration; Expansion into a new market; Proving users choice; Not tying itself too strongly to just one vender; Stay ahead of paradignm shifts...
There are many reasons why CCP could produce a Linux type client. There are many reasons why CCP should not produce a Linux type client. ie. Time away from its current ingame projects; additional cost; simpler product support; few bugs to track and/or fix.
I myself would like to see a Linux client. For me it allows me to choose the vender I want without being cohersed into software piracy. Linux provides a true multi-tasking environment unlike Windows 2000 or XP - important when running 3 clients (less lag).
Better use of computer resources on my network.
Regards
Ishcar
|
Mohn'Marr
|
Posted - 2004.10.15 12:32:00 -
[137]
As the dev's dont really have the time.. why dont you try and hurry a 3rd party (transgaming/Cedega) into coming up with a directx 9b (c ideally) emulator for linux. that would solve a whole lot of gaming probs, rather than having to attack each software house..
i do think its a good idea to have multiple os compatibility (tho im in the 'tried but never managed' linux group). i was impressed to see Doom 3 fully available for linux so fast..
now that some of the big names are selling pc's with linux preloaded, it can only be a matter of time b4 all games are cross-compatible
(macs are a whole nother arguement tho)
MM
|
Mohn'Marr
|
Posted - 2004.10.15 12:32:00 -
[138]
As the dev's dont really have the time.. why dont you try and hurry a 3rd party (transgaming/Cedega) into coming up with a directx 9b (c ideally) emulator for linux. that would solve a whole lot of gaming probs, rather than having to attack each software house..
i do think its a good idea to have multiple os compatibility (tho im in the 'tried but never managed' linux group). i was impressed to see Doom 3 fully available for linux so fast..
now that some of the big names are selling pc's with linux preloaded, it can only be a matter of time b4 all games are cross-compatible
(macs are a whole nother arguement tho)
MM
|
Iratus Caelestis
|
Posted - 2004.10.15 14:14:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Iratus Caelestis on 15/10/2004 14:20:01
Originally by: Zenst
for something on this scale I would probably look at DB2 though one of the more cheaper alternatives might suite depending on the feature set you require. If you did descide to do a linux port I'd suggest youi colllar IBM for some FREE help given the grief they have bestowed upon you in the past and the amount of $$$'s your've thrown there way.
Did you not know, DB2 is now hardcoded to not install unless you have had a 3 month training course before putting the CD in the drive. If you haven't it locks out turns on the speakers and screams 'hahahahahuSuckImgonnawreckyourlife'
DB2 is bad.
Also IBM won't give anything for free, ever. Ever. Erm........ ever and without being rude the money you claim CCP have chucked at IBM is large on the scale of mine and your salaries but is tiny on the scale of making IBM give a crap. The 445 Servers eve uses are supplied with 2 processors for ú4000 to a reasonable sized client (not sure if the eve cluster counts yet)
Ok, back on topic. I think a linux client would be a nice thing to have but it shouldn't be a priority, if you can allocate a couple of people for a couple of months and produce something thats useable in Beta Form then please do it.
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Iratus Caelestis
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Posted - 2004.10.15 14:14:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Iratus Caelestis on 15/10/2004 14:20:01
Originally by: Zenst
for something on this scale I would probably look at DB2 though one of the more cheaper alternatives might suite depending on the feature set you require. If you did descide to do a linux port I'd suggest youi colllar IBM for some FREE help given the grief they have bestowed upon you in the past and the amount of $$$'s your've thrown there way.
Did you not know, DB2 is now hardcoded to not install unless you have had a 3 month training course before putting the CD in the drive. If you haven't it locks out turns on the speakers and screams 'hahahahahuSuckImgonnawreckyourlife'
DB2 is bad.
Also IBM won't give anything for free, ever. Ever. Erm........ ever and without being rude the money you claim CCP have chucked at IBM is large on the scale of mine and your salaries but is tiny on the scale of making IBM give a crap. The 445 Servers eve uses are supplied with 2 processors for ú4000 to a reasonable sized client (not sure if the eve cluster counts yet)
Ok, back on topic. I think a linux client would be a nice thing to have but it shouldn't be a priority, if you can allocate a couple of people for a couple of months and produce something thats useable in Beta Form then please do it.
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Alnesh
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Posted - 2005.01.26 05:11:00 -
[141]
SO has there been any new developments to all this? With the introduction of the insanly afordable minimac, i've recently switched (YAY, i've wanted to get away from pc for a LONG time now!) and am very very curious as to wether or not i'll still be able to play EVE!
Thanks,
Tyrae
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JoCool
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Posted - 2005.01.26 06:55:00 -
[142]
Omg Alnesh where did you get that thread from.
Well I don't think they'll do it because the feedback on it has been rather bad, most people think the devs shall concentrate their resources on content and features first. Besides this, iMacs are inferior, in every regard, because they lack compatiblety, why the hell did you buy one?
I also don't want to see it as it just takes up time and money which CCP won't get back as only a small tiny fragment of users use iMacs/apple/banana.
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.01.26 07:58:00 -
[143]
Originally by: JoCool
iMacs are inferior, in every regard, because they lack compatiblety, why the hell did you buy one?
The oldest crap, regurgitated yet again. FUG FUD FUD. Nice trolling JoCool
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A'de N'ahten
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Posted - 2005.01.26 09:54:00 -
[144]
Edited by: A'de N'ahten on 26/01/2005 09:55:16
I have no knowledge of programming or anything remotely technical like that so please bear with me........
I guess I shall use the example of Championship Manager (now football manager) as it is (or was last time I checked the biggest selling game in the UK and has had PC an Mac versions for the last 4 or 5 years.....
Years ago it used to be a real pain to port games to the Mac - the Mac versions of CM used to lag behind the PC release by anything up to 9 months with nowhere near the same number of patches and updates. The porting was also outsourced by SI Games to another company (Feral i think).
Basically you could play CM on the Mac if you wanted, but it was not that great - out of date data etc....
Now the latest version has Mac and PC versions on the same CD, both created by SI Games and Patches are released simultaneously for both.
So I suppose after my rambling, there are 2 points I'm putting forward.....
1) Porting to the New macs - which are Unix based - seems to be a lot quicker and easier. I would hesitate to say not much hassle, but nowhere near as difficult and time consuming as it used to be.
2) If the company behind the biggest selling game in UK history (If it's not no.1 it must be very close) feels it is a wise use of resources to create a Mac version, I guess there might be something worth considering in the proposal.
I haven't forgotten Linux - I just don't know much about it - but the more platforms the merrier as far as I am concerned.....
I am slightly biased as I use macs at work - and would love to be able to fire up eve!
edit: just thought - I bet the bloody sims is the biggest selling game now.... there is no hope left for society! |
Zarkovich
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Posted - 2005.01.26 10:49:00 -
[145]
I really dun prefer the one platform over the other. IMHO, each platform has its uses. Some are better for different tasks than others.
But i do think that supporting more than just one platform, being that only wintel or only OSX and so on, makes for cleaner code, as you do not code OS dependent hooks.
And speaking as a programmer, that has to maintain, some seriously old platform dependent code, i love being told to code in new platform independent code, as it makes for easy porting, if and when, my employer decides to change vendor.
Seeing as EVE is coded in Python (Stackless), which is by nature platform independent(?), the only problem i see, is porting the GFX-engine from DirectX to OpenGL, with i actually prefer. Reading through the post in this thread i read that, CCP actually seems to care about their code, as EVE is made up of modules, so i dun see that big of a cost of porting, as its only rewriting a "few" modules.
On another note, it seems to me that other games, are following that road too. The Unreal-engine has been platform-independent for as long as i can remember (since the original Unreal??). Quake seems to be platform independent too, now?
And if a game actually supports multiple platforms it gives goodwill, which really can't be measured in normal terms.
But the whole thing about this isn't which is better, and badder. The thing is about choice. I like the idea, that if i wanna play eve, i do not have to buy a wintel, and could go with a x86(more likely a x86-64(AMD64?)), with a open source OS, or maybe a Mac(especially that new cute Mini Mac).
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Flashhart
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Posted - 2005.01.26 11:27:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Del'Keron
Why would I want to sit down and waste any length of time trying to learn the in's and out's of Linux when I'm already good to go with Windows?
You sound like my grandma, "I can't be learning these new fangled computers. I'll just use pen and paper." I seem to remember you were the one who has tried Linux out of choice (several times), so you obviously do/did want to learn. Anyway, the point is not to replace the Windows client with the Linux version anyway, so by all means stick with Windows if you want to.
Originally by: Del'Keron
I don't worry about keyloggers on Windows since I can keep it secure with auto-updates. With Linux I worry quite a lot.
Do you mean the auto updates which only occur once a month (which can give the discerning *****er around a 30 day grace period where the problem has been fixed but the patch hasn't been released)? The auto update feature which may make me wait in a virtual queue for days before it allows me to download the update (as experienced by many with the release of XP SP2)? Yeah, that certainly make me feel safe and secure  . You do realise there are auto update programs for Linux too?
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CmdrRat
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Posted - 2005.01.26 12:54:00 -
[147]
Some one needs to code a 30 day auto lock feature on the forums, no post and in 30 days the thread is locked from any new posts.
________________________________________________
Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism and communism, War Has Never Solved Anything |
Jin Entres
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Posted - 2005.01.26 18:55:00 -
[148]
My friend was interested in eve and would've gave it a go if it was available for Linux, too. Well, he's a real committed linux geek and will not use windows for anything. A shame he can't play.
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Mean Jeebus
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Posted - 2005.01.26 23:10:00 -
[149]
Let me say this from experience: If you decide to support another operating system for your client software, you should nearly double your staff in all technical areas with the possible exception of content (if you want to call artists 'technical').
It would be like heaping fuel onto a burning pile of oily rags. It will only spread and get bigger without more fire-fighters.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for this expanding, and I love the game and what CCP has done so far. But I would find it hard to justify the money/manpower spent on this venture when compared to the returns; especially when it could be better spent on current issues. (and I think you guys are doing pretty well with regards to improvements and tackling bugs)
But who knows, if you port to Linux, you just might get a better client out of it and convert many Windows junkies to Linux junkies. Which is never a bad thing in my book.
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Caillech
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Posted - 2005.01.27 09:35:00 -
[150]
Linux version sure would be great.. then I could get rid of windows once and for all...
Transgaming is already working on getting EVE to work with Cedega... it would be easier for CCP, if they would cooperate with Transgaming or something like that.
Of course native linux would be tons better, but more work for CCP i guess
--------
Caillech
Director of Sexual Healing
2003.08.22 16:18:53 -----
Your 1200mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Small Secure Container, wrecking for 1102.9 damage
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The Burninator
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Posted - 2005.01.27 09:50:00 -
[151]
Agreed, I would like to see Eve running on linux, then i could dump windows once and for all on my last 2 boxes.
----------------
BDCI Website - We solve problems. |
Dragothmar
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Posted - 2005.01.27 14:59:00 -
[152]
Hmmmm - Eve on my shiny new PSP... Drooooooool - built in wireless makes it perfect for that Eve@starbucks moment.
Sony are making a word processor, spreadsheet editor and mail/internet apps for it - hell why not?
Or how about PocketPC Eve? Dell's Axim X50 has an intel-based 3d accelerator (16Mb of graphics goodness - ooooh)... And an optional bluetooth keyboard...
Eve EVERYWHERE
*Wesside?*
*Nah, NOOOORTHSIIIIHEEEEEED in da house!* |
Hotblack
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Posted - 2005.01.28 04:20:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Hotblack on 28/01/2005 04:31:12
Off topic!
Originally by: Del'Keron
I don't worry about keyloggers on Windows since I can keep it secure with auto-updates. With Linux I worry quite a lot.
Sorry.... Just had to say - ^^ ROFLMAO ^^
On topic!
---
Anyway.. I think that doing a Linux/Mac port would be a good thing.And as several other already have stated I'm sure CCP know there own limits After all they did a pretty good job so far!
Just my 2 isk.
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Mirirar
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Posted - 2005.01.30 22:59:00 -
[154]
I'd recomend caution.
I wouldn't want to see development for the Win32 client or patch deployment slowed or hindered because of additinal testing or development requirements for either Linux or MacOS.
I'd much rather see more content and better performance for the Win32 user base first.
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SoltonGris
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Posted - 2005.01.31 00:38:00 -
[155]
The sooner you do a Linux port the better as far as i'm concerned. I only have 1 use for windows and that is playing Eve, everything else I use Linux for. I hate having my best system tied up for 1 purpose only.
Perhaps if one of the dev's could post a rough summary about what would be involved in terms of changes needed (graphics engine etc.) what they believe the man hours would be to do this and if it would impact current development (ie. slow things down) or be done by a seperate team (ie. minimal disruption) maybe this would give the people who only use windows less cause for concern (or at least a genuine reason to whine).
Also, would there be any spinoff benefits to the windows only users (ie. less lagg, better graphics) from a re-write of the code required by porting. I'm sure like many things in life, when you look back and wish you'd done something different this would be an ideal time make changes that benefit all OS users that previously was too much to do just for its own sake. Perhaps some windows only people would be less negative if they could see benefits to their own game experience from this.
I guess what i'm really saying is maybe the negative impact of this is not as bad as some people fear and maybe there are also unseen benefits to the windows only users that might outweigh the negatives they see.
What we really need is some details from the people who KNOW whats involved (at least roughly) and the expected negatives and positives so we can all make an INFORMED decision on wether this is worth doing or not.
Solton.
.
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Naos Zapatero
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Posted - 2005.01.31 02:45:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Naos Zapatero on 12/02/2005 23:44:11
While I'm sure the Mac users would welcome (boat anchor lolz) the change from Amiga Classix 102 and linux users would welcome anything...
I don't see much money in a mmorpg (with a fee!) for the open source types that use linux and the compatability issues would be something to behold indeed.
(I'd love to see an alternative to M$ but "imo" linux isn't ever going to be upto the job, maybe a Euro'OS like Airbus or something one day?).
*Edit - After chatting to a few mates who use Linux it seems I'm wrong here, just about all of them expressed a positive interest and all said they would be willing to pay for an online game.
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2005.01.31 02:56:00 -
[157]
Personally from a developement point of view it's something I'd think carefully about.
Porting to Mac and eventually perhaps enabling eve for internet capable consoles maybe.
Though for the time involved and the cost porting to Linux etc is prolly something I wouldn't do, because of the time/cost involved wieghted against the gains your likely to get from it.
But well it's something to think about I guess.
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Dobbo
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Posted - 2005.02.12 21:00:00 -
[158]
DO IT, PORT IT, DO IT....I know for a FACT that if eve ran for linux, that there would be about 10 more accounts minimum from my group of peoples. The ONLY reason I have Windows on my desktop is to play Eve.
I will say it once again, DO IT.
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Elad Baan
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Posted - 2005.02.12 21:05:00 -
[159]
There's so much left to do on EVE it'd be a shame to waste money, resources and time just for an OS port.
Cool ideas for the game - New mission types - Group missions - Planets and the market |
Ngaio
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Posted - 2005.02.13 00:43:00 -
[160]
Damn, what are you f.....g about???? In my opinion you "Developers??? pfff" should really think about changing your profession. First of all, you should correct all bugs, and READ every bug report before.
It is just a waste of time and money to port such BUGGED game to the other sys. It would be an exploit.
I think that if few thousands of unsatisfied and ****ed off customers would leave this game and cancel their subscriptions, you would get to the work and finish the game.
I don't even want to play it anymore, JUST because of bugs.
Please....
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Juniper
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Posted - 2005.02.13 00:53:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Ngaio
Damn, what are you f.....g about???? In my opinion you "Developers??? pfff" should really think about changing your profession. First of all, you should correct all bugs, and READ every bug report before.
It is just a waste of time and money to port such BUGGED game to the other sys. It would be an exploit.
I think that if few thousands of unsatisfied and ****ed off customers would leave this game and cancel their subscriptions, you would get to the work and finish the game.
I don't even want to play it anymore, JUST because of bugs.
Please....
Can I have your stuff?
One of the purposes & goals behind any port, is not just to have added platforms (although I have to say I love the idea of having EVE on a wireless portable internet device in 5 years time say) but also to centralise & stabilise the code. Making your code able to run on multiple platforms will ultimately mean a lot fewer bugs, since it has to work well on all systems - not just Windows. Windows is a very flaky operating system to develop on top of anyway - you can get away with so many "bad" programming practises that you just can't on other systems. So the code would have to improve.
For this reason, and this reason alone, I am in favour of a port to Linux/Mac.
-- Gotta sell my stuff...
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PhoenixX Ash
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Posted - 2005.04.03 20:59:00 -
[162]
Edited by: PhoenixX Ash on 03/04/2005 21:01:27
DirectX and OpenGL are different but share enough similarities that for instance someone new to working with both would have a much easier time learning one after they have learnt the other plus you can do pretty much everything to everything you can do with one on the other. Also on Windows depending on the set-up of the system and what's on it a user could find using OpenGL to manage graphics for a given game will work out better than DirectX or in other cases, the other way around so an OpenGL option would even help some Windows users. More and more people are using Mac and Linux as well as or instead of Windows and as I prefer Macs myself being able to play EVE on my preferred system would be a welcome option. Often Mac ports of a game are handled not by the Windows version developers but by another company such as The OMNI Group so using one or more other companies or absorbing a small developer with Mac and/or Linux experience is also an option for CCP as well. Those options would mean minimal to no slow down in development for the Windows version as another team or teams would be handling the ported versions and only those matters.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.04.03 21:30:00 -
[163]
Originally by: PhoenixX Ash
Edited by: PhoenixX Ash on 03/04/2005 21:01:27
DirectX and OpenGL are different but share enough similarities that for instance someone new to working with both would have a much easier time learning one after they have learnt the other plus you can do pretty much everything to everything you can do with one on the other. Also on Windows depending on the set-up of the system and what's on it a user could find using OpenGL to manage graphics for a given game will work out better than DirectX or in other cases, the other way around so an OpenGL option would even help some Windows users. More and more people are using Mac and Linux as well as or instead of Windows and as I prefer Macs myself being able to play EVE on my preferred system would be a welcome option. Often Mac ports of a game are handled not by the Windows version developers but by another company such as The OMNI Group so using one or more other companies or absorbing a small developer with Mac and/or Linux experience is also an option for CCP as well. Those options would mean minimal to no slow down in development for the Windows version as another team or teams would be handling the ported versions and only those matters.
Obviously you have no idea what you are on about.
ogl > dx = good
dx > ogl = nightmare
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Sevarus James
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Posted - 2005.04.03 22:04:00 -
[164]
Why is that everytime this is brought up there are those who begin screaming about how things will be 'horrible' and such. I really don't get it....AND NEITHER DO the makers of two really 'niche' games I know of.....hmmmm lemme think: DOOM3 and UNREAL have native ports WITH installers.
Now before the negativity about 'massive game companies' commences, there is another SPACE BASED MMORPG that has a tiny yet dedicated following here in the US....its called Vendetta Online, and yep, guess what? It has multi-platform NATIVE support for mac, windows, and yeppers.....Linux. They haven't got any issues supporting three platforms, and they have an inhouse side of 4-6 devs.
The brass tacks here is that by adding multi-platform support, you get more paying customers, and some of the current ones go from paying to 'worship' status.
A support situation for multiple platforms would entail CCP adding a new division to their company.........this is usually a good thing...its called 'growth'.
From a technical perspective:
EVE-ONLINE 'almost' runs under cedega (WineX) now. (Some of us have been testing it and reporting on progress in the Technology part of these forums.)
I would be happy to say that I'd like a Linux port of EVE. Currently I don't use wintendo for anything OTHER than Eve in a dual boot situation on my laptop. To have native support for the best operating system I've ever used...well I'd be happy. (big understatement.)
P.S. When I click on the devblog link (logged in) I don't see hellmar's blog. Did it get removed???????
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PhoenixX Ash
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Posted - 2005.04.03 23:20:00 -
[165]
This is an old topic I happened uppon, the Dev Blog is from Sept 2004 so you'd need to go back in the Dev Blog archive some. Then Blizzard has done dual release for it's last two releases (which includes WoW), four if you count the expansions for WC3 and D2 as seperate releases. From what I remember Blizzard absorbed a small Mac game developer resulting in a Mac team to make Mac versions of their games, CCP could do the same.
When working on programs over multiple platforms so long as the programing language used can be compiled to usable binaries on each platform all that needs to be changed is the how the program talks to the OS aspects. The resource files and main guts of a program would be the same in each. I work in programing, not with games but I do at least have experience with this sort of thing on a basic level.
Then as for Vendetta Online, that's an OK game and functions well on all three platforms but it's not actually release ready despite having been formally released as many things are still incomplete. Right now it really is just an online FPS, not a MMORPG as there is no RPG content to speak of and no way to really effect the game universe. The four guys (only two are programers I think) that are doing it once again ran out of money last year so released what they had (this was confirmed on their forums by their own forum mod). The game runs fine but the team is so small and it's the first time they've made a full game that I think their inexperience, the small staff, minimal funding and its player count (20-70 at any given time and slowly shrinking as well) will likely put an end to this project in time before it sees a release ready product. This could prove to be a just the group for CCP to absorb as at this point or a time in the not so distant future they may even welcome it. |
Suran Ald'Ruhn
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Posted - 2005.04.04 02:36:00 -
[166]
I would say yes to porting clients to other OS's. The more companys that take up this idea, the more viable it becomes to other companys to do so themselves. As for the server? well to be honest, its a potential minefield probably not worth undertaking, the performance,stability and security benefits are debatable. Both linux and windows have thier advantages, Linux is of course free, its a complex OS to get into but allows a much greater level of control over what goes on, as well as the added advantage of better updates. Windows is easier to maintain and use but as such has less flexability as well as being expensive and MS's track record on security and bugs leaves a lot to be desired.
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Sevarus James
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Posted - 2005.04.04 04:14:00 -
[167]
thanks for the info on the devblog phoenix...doh. lol.
As for Vendetta, I agree with you regarding the 'state' of the game...but the point still holds...a tiny (by any standard) team of developers put together an mmo for multiple platforms, and their issues were with money (for the company) rather than 'porting' problems.
The idea of absorbin' that group into eve's community as the 'porting' company....wonder if anyone's suggested it to the vendetta guys to get in touch with CCP.....heck, ccp has opened the door to multi-platform (at least in 'word').
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Qayos
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Posted - 2005.04.04 07:51:00 -
[168]
Umm, doesnt Eve run on linux? Why spend tons of time making something work that already does?
There is some guy thats in the HELP chan in game all the time spamming about joining his channel where he walks people through getting Eve running on Linux. How about some join that channel and do that, and report the results? Then if it still doesnt work, ask for a port.
Though I still think it would not be a good way to spend developement time. Most Linux users already have a Windows install anyway, so very little is gained.
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Raem Civrie
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Posted - 2005.04.04 08:26:00 -
[169]
It's possible to set up a winbox under linux, and emulate it sufficiently to have directX, supposedly. Takes a long time to get it to run, but what doesn't when you're working with Linux?
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2005.04.04 08:50:00 -
[170]
That's the first time ever, that I've seen an ooooolld topic ressurected TWICE. Read the dates people the first lot (and the Dev Blog) are from September, then some nub posted in January, now its April.
Oh, and on-topic: its a complete waste of Dev resources. How would it benefit the paying customers, instead of the "thousands" of theoretical players we'd supposedly get. It'd be a neat trick, but at the expense of all the other CODE-heavy stuff we're asking for - like Planetary Flight, Titans, system-wide belts. Its mad to consider.
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