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Torothin
Amarr Foundation Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.06.30 00:36:00 -
[1]
Ever since MC there has been no real powerblock mercenary alliance that could steamroll alliances to take sov for a price. I thought that having MC around was really good for eve and was an amazing entity to have in the game. I am surprised that no-one has stepped up. What you have now is several alliances that have emerged in the last year due to recruiting corps in just for the numbers game. I know there is KIA alliance but I'm not sure what their deal is.
Half of these alliances have no business having the space they currently reside in. In my opinion eve misses that X-factor that could be hired to take space for the right price. MC was such a great entity to have around and also made things very interesting. I am not an MC fan and had the priveledge and puishment of flying with them during the tortuga ordeal. With BOB's demise what better time than now for a few powerblock corps to step up to the plate. Who will it be??? Thoughts??
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Vile rat
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.30 00:40:00 -
[2]
Well the problem starts when "mercenaries" attempt to be 0.0 space holders as well.
Even worse when they have a subservient relationship with a major power bloc and only pay lip service to neutrality.
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Mynas Atoch
Caldari UK Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.06.30 00:52:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 30/06/2009 00:52:50 LOL .. tell Seleene ... wonder what happened to her/him :p
Seriously though .. the M part of the MC was a light roleplay to give the guys some focus to their game content. The isk involved was trivial .. token payments mostly. Rarely did it cover the cap fuel, nevermind the risk.
MC's wealth, like many of the original EVE players, came from BPO collections in private hands. MC failed to adjust to the need for isk trees and the need to control territory that went with them (the opportunities were there - we never failed to miss them) - Seleene's hatred for moon goo was a thing of legend (strangely, there is no moon goo in W-Space).
Now when everyone can fly a dread, who needs mercs with a cap fleet you could (then) only dream of. With no way of competing with the wealth of the territorial powers, no matter how mediocre, the game just doesn't have a space for landless mercenaries with heavy weapons.
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Agiosgeogios
Caldari Culture Breach
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Posted - 2009.06.30 01:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Vile rat Well the problem starts when "mercenaries" attempt to be 0.0 space holders as well.
Even worse when they have a subservient relationship with a major power bloc and only pay lip service to neutrality.
Well that was the problem with the MC in specific but in general its the change in sov mechanic with jammers and bridges that killed capital guerilla mercenary action. Merceneraies are there to overpower the enemy, kill, and gtfo. They arent there for a prolongued conflict or ment to bring 300 man fleets. Jammers and bridges kinda put a clog in that wheel.
To bad tho because i enjoyed the MC and entities like Battle Angels and what they did to influence wars.
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Sirius A
Caldari StarFleet Enterprises StarFleet Federation
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Posted - 2009.06.30 01:35:00 -
[5]
I think Sons of Tangra should step up and be this group you describe.
"I am expendable" |
Alekseyev Karrde
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 01:38:00 -
[6]
Workin on it. ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
dastommy79
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.30 01:45:00 -
[7]
what about lolkia?
true mercs
Former SmashKill Coaliton Leader Stop banning me
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Sage Eveo
Gallente Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.06.30 03:10:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Sage Eveo on 30/06/2009 03:11:24
Originally by: Torothin Ever since MC there has been no real powerblock mercenary alliance that could steamroll alliances to take sov for a price... Who will it be???
The Noir. boys should branch out.
Trojan Trolls [TROLL] // Controlled Chaos <TROLL> |
Fat Ducker
Amarr Lucky Hydra Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.30 03:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Vile rat Well the problem starts when "mercenaries" attempt to be 0.0 space holders as well.
Even worse when they have a subservient relationship with a major power bloc and only pay lip service to neutrality.
Iput this into Babelfish and it came out:
Quote: LOLKIA
Originally by: Mynas Atoch Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 30/06/2009 00:52:50 LOL .. tell Seleene ... wonder what happened to her/him :p
He's a Dev now.
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Constantinee
Caldari Cursed Inc
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Posted - 2009.06.30 03:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mynas Atoch Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 30/06/2009 00:52:50 LOL .. tell Seleene ... wonder what happened to her/him :p
Seriously though .. the M part of the MC was a light roleplay to give the guys some focus to their game content. The isk involved was trivial .. token payments mostly. Rarely did it cover the cap fuel, nevermind the risk.
MC's wealth, like many of the original EVE players, came from BPO collections in private hands. MC failed to adjust to the need for isk trees and the need to control territory that went with them (the opportunities were there - we never failed to miss them) - Seleene's hatred for moon goo was a thing of legend (strangely, there is no moon goo in W-Space).
Now when everyone can fly a dread, who needs mercs with a cap fleet you could (then) only dream of. With no way of competing with the wealth of the territorial powers, no matter how mediocre, the game just doesn't have a space for landless mercenaries with heavy weapons.
I think the attempt to control the alliance by a couple people (one in particular) had alot to do with some of the crap your talking. Dosent matter anyway.
We all still blame you...
Originally by: Seph Res im looking forward for you to lead another op down the drain, and no i didnt lost any of my dreads, but killed you and the fat girl, it was fun for me
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.06.30 04:33:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mynas Atoch LOL .. tell Seleene ... wonder what happened to her/him :p
Working for CCP - rebalancing supercaps i hear
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weixing
Amarr Deep Space Productions
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Posted - 2009.06.30 04:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mynas Atoch Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 30/06/2009 00:52:50 LOL .. tell Seleene ... wonder what happened to her/him :p
Seriously though .. the M part of the MC was a light roleplay to give the guys some focus to their game content. The isk involved was trivial .. token payments mostly. Rarely did it cover the cap fuel, nevermind the risk.
MC's wealth, like many of the original EVE players, came from BPO collections in private hands. MC failed to adjust to the need for isk trees and the need to control territory that went with them (the opportunities were there - we never failed to miss them) - Seleene's hatred for moon goo was a thing of legend (strangely, there is no moon goo in W-Space).
Now when everyone can fly a dread, who needs mercs with a cap fleet you could (then) only dream of. With no way of competing with the wealth of the territorial powers, no matter how mediocre, the game just doesn't have a space for landless mercenaries with heavy weapons.
The whole problem with MC was when they took space and thought that isk was important. There was a time when MC would attack entities to cause damage not to conquer. A mercenary alliance working on the model of pre-space/pre-cap MC(i.e. running large fleets of sub caps) would still be a very viable and successful merc outfit today. Your model of MC is why it failed and in essence wasn't anything different than any other alliance. |
SATAN
Amarr BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2009.06.30 05:19:00 -
[13]
What can any merc organization do against 1/2 of eve? Or the other 1/2 of eve?
Lets just say for instance someone put together an even better MC with 5x the old NC capability it would still get steam rolled by NC+Goons+PL+who ever else they have blue. Or lets say the same new and improved MC tries to attack and take space in the south where they get to fight AAA+SE+Coven+Atlas+ROL+etc...
On a side note you speak of alliances that don't deserve the space they live in. You may want to look in the mirror, because without PL you would be in Jita.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.06.30 05:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: SATAN What can any merc organization do against 1/2 of eve? Or the other 1/2 of eve?
Well, it is always good if you can bring another 200 dreads to the field without worrying that they are yours.
The problem for such a merc corp/ally would be the lack of customers. There are just not enough independent conflicts in Eve, they are all napped together.
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Shardrael
Caldari Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.30 06:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Originally by: Mynas Atoch LOL .. tell Seleene ... wonder what happened to her/him :p
Working for CCP - rebalancing supercaps i hear
wtb mom superweapon kthx Signature locked. Please submit a petition to discuss the matter further. Navigator |
Tikka
Caldari Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner
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Posted - 2009.06.30 06:36:00 -
[16]
the problem is, no one could pay for the risk of using 200 Merc Caps.
As long as Sov ist like it is now and Titans are so many and powerful to kill a sub fleet, there will be no way for a Merc corp in 0.0. The needed power and the risk vs reward is out of limits right now.
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Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core
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Posted - 2009.06.30 06:50:00 -
[17]
contact the privateers.. for the empire work.. very effective www.garia.net |
Danton Marcellus
Gallente Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2009.06.30 09:33:00 -
[18]
I was under the impression that was what Triumvirate did. I mean they're great at taking space then when asked to hold it they promptly up and disbands.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.30 11:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Torothin Ever since MC there has been no real powerblock mercenary alliance that could steamroll alliances to take sov for a price. I thought that having MC around was really good for eve and was an amazing entity to have in the game. I am surprised that no-one has stepped up. What you have now is several alliances that have emerged in the last year due to recruiting corps in just for the numbers game. I know there is KIA alliance but I'm not sure what their deal is.
Half of these alliances have no business having the space they currently reside in. In my opinion eve misses that X-factor that could be hired to take space for the right price. MC was such a great entity to have around and also made things very interesting. I am not an MC fan and had the priveledge and puishment of flying with them during the tortuga ordeal. With BOB's demise what better time than now for a few powerblock corps to step up to the plate. Who will it be??? Thoughts??
Its economics really. It takes one player and a billion isk to throw up a deathstar POS to claim sov. It takes 30 players and 40billion worth of investment on the field to take it down in a reasonable amount of time. Since while you are taking down the POS your 40billion isk is in harms way and inviting a hotdrop its quite definitely a high risk activity and needs to be billed at those rates.
You either need a client prepared to pay appropriate danger money or to guarentee the replacement of hulls lost in the action. Either which way you are looking at charging far more than the cost of the towers you are taking out as your contract fee. And the problem is - who has that kind of money to throw at mercenaries? And if you do have enough money to throw at mercenaries (and are interested in taking or breaking sovereignty) why didn't you just fund your own alliance and hire people to do the job internally?
Mercs are irrelevent in 0.0 warfare really. They can only be bought with space and that turns them into space-holders that are no longer independent operators. (see merc coalition).
But otherwise it simply doesn't make economic sense to hire out a capital group costing tens of billions to remove single billion assets for chicken-feed rates.
Of course you have some rich kids that like to play at being mercs (while secretly supping riches from the local spaceholders) but thats more a hobby than a profession.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2009.06.30 12:04:00 -
[20]
Beside the risk of deploying caps being too expensive - two three years ago the mc could offer firepower in form of experienced member and expensive equipment many alliance just didnt have, which could make a big adifference when used right. Today the skill required from an alliance pilot is to know how to jump to a cyno, activate siege and not miss the turn off siege command. Add a ridicolous moonincome to that and individual skill makes little difference. -
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Venomire
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.30 12:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Beside the risk of deploying caps being too expensive - two three years ago the mc could offer firepower in form of experienced member and expensive equipment many alliance just didnt have, which could make a big adifference when used right.
Three years ago there were fewer people that invested the time to train the skill prerequisites for capital ships.
Quote: Today the skill required from an alliance pilot is to know how to jump to a cyno, activate siege and not miss the turn off siege command.
That's all that was needed to be known then, as well. Nothing has changed at all in that regard.
Quote: Add a ridicolous moonincome to that and individual skill makes little difference.
Individual skill has never made a difference in sov. warfare.
The days of the capital heavy mercenary alliance were numbered as soon as the capital skillbooks (and the means to produce capitals) were seeded on TQ.
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TZeer
Caldari BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2009.06.30 12:12:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Beside the risk of deploying caps being too expensive - two three years ago the mc could offer firepower in form of experienced member and expensive equipment many alliance just didnt have, which could make a big adifference when used right. Today the skill required from an alliance pilot is to know how to jump to a cyno, activate siege and not miss the turn off siege command. Add a ridicolous moonincome to that and individual skill makes little difference.
Just adding to this one. I guess most of us remember when MC went north and brought 4 or 5? motherships. They killed pretty much whatever that was thrown at them, before going back down south.
Fast forward: It`s not too many weeks ago that "someone" up north lost 5 or was it 4? motherships in one single engagement.
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Agiosgeogios
Caldari Culture Breach
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Posted - 2009.06.30 12:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Its economics really. It takes one player and a billion isk to throw up a deathstar POS to claim sov. It takes 30 players and 40billion worth of investment on the field to take it down in a reasonable amount of time.
Unless you go all faction your numbers are completely wrong and its more a numbers (players) game than a isk game. People tend to not care about isk once they reach a personally set comfort level. Risk vs. reward in 0.0 warfare is usually completely skewed and only really applies to empire folk or space claimers.
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Venomire
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.30 12:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: TZeer Wait, what?
There was no capital heavy mercenary before the stuff got seeded on TQ. The main difference was that not many allainces saw the need for massive capfleets. And when suddenly a well organised group could put close 100% of their members in cap ships and wreck havoc, the more carebearish alliances got a wakeup call. They where lagging behind, but only for so long.
Duh.
Like I said, that **** was dead when it started. Only I used more words.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2009.06.30 13:00:00 -
[25]
Quote: Three years ago there were fewer people that invested the time to train the skill prerequisites for capital ships.
I think, altho its just speculation ofc, it was more a case of fewer ppl able to make the isk for it. It took some knowledge (or some grinding reslilence) to get the 400m carrierskill and the 1.5b for the ship, that was the bottleneck back then.
Quote:
Individual skill has never made a difference in sov. warfare.
I disagree, a few years back the numbers involved in sov fights were alot smaller, a couple of proper fitted antisupport could safe, good tacklers could doom fleets.
Surviving and dying in a fleetfight had a much bigger consequence as you had to make money to get back in the fight, unlike today sending a mail to the guy that handles reimbursement through moon income, its where many alliance crubmled as inexperience got members killed who with time didnt bother to work for replacements anymore.
This prolly started to 8slowly) change with invention and later the moonincome. Now its just a matter of logistics. -
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Taram Caldar
Caldari Noir.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 13:21:00 -
[26]
TBH, in response to the OP...
The reason there isn't a 'new MC' is pretty basic. Most pilots who want to be mercs want nothing to do with sov warfare.
It really is just that simple. With SOV working the way it does now there's really no incentive to working merc work at the sov level. It's boring, it's tedious, the risk-to-reward ratio just isn't worth it. Even MC was thinking about moving out of 0.0 and going 'back to basics' for merc work before Tortuga.
Even if that weren't true: The days where a merc force could field more caps than a sov-holding alliance are pretty much over. Add to that the giant nap-trains in 0.0 now and it's just not feasible for a merc unit to pull what MC did in the north to D2. Especially not with Cyno Jammers combined with Jump Bridges combined with napfests that can field titans to nuke any fleet stupid enough to make a run at a cyno jammer. Even back then had D2 not torched it's relationships with, well, EVERYONE in the north they'd probably still be there.
No, the days of merc outfits that can smash up people's sov is over. Because as soon as you get those kinds of numbers you're gonna wind up taking sov yourself just so you can afford to field the caps necessary to do so. And once you hold sov yourself you can kiss merc work goodbye because defending your space then trumps any contract. It's not like you can tell an employer 'sorry dude we have to forefeit your work in order to go defend our space, sorry that screws up your attack plan'.
People enjoy bashing the fact that MC made arrangements with BOB to hold their space in Period Basis but, really, that's the only way that MC could still be a merc outfit. As long as BOB stayed strong MC didn't have to defend their space, which allowed them to be mercenaries. If BoB hadn't been covering MC's assets for the most part MC would not have been able to remain a merc force, however biased, due to having to defend their space constantly. And even with that MC had to slowly morph from an assault group that smashed enemies to more of a 'leadership' group that organized combat and led allied fleets rather than doing all the work themselves. Simply because they couldn't afford to play attrition wars against large alliances. This is even more true today than then for all the reasons I went into above.
So, in short, the days when a merc outfit could do those kinds of things are really over. Mercs can still dramatically impact battlefields just not in the way that older players remember. Mercs take a more specialized role now rather than 'in your face smashing your towers' kind of thing.
That's just my perspective.
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Wotlankor
Caldari Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.06.30 13:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Taram Caldar Lotsa stuff...
That is one of the best posts Ive seen on CAOD in a long time.
Tortuga was an attempt to get around the problem of SOV holding. If enough Merc outfits got together some would stay back and defend the space while others worked. Only in Period Basis would there be a NAP. Outside one could take contracts vs eachother.
It ultimately did not prove fruitfull but the "vision" was not bad whatever the winners who write history claims.
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Jimmy Duce
Gallente Shards of Apathy
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Posted - 2009.06.30 15:11:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde Workin on it.
Since I've flown with you guys once and man that was one of my most pofessional yet fun pvp op I've ever been at I 2 wish there was an X factor esp since MC died before I even knew there was an Eve. All the best. But if/when u failcade can I haz ur isk? actually maybe I should say stuff but WE.
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Jimmy Duce
Gallente Shards of Apathy
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Posted - 2009.06.30 15:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: SATAN What can any merc organization do against 1/2 of eve? Or the other 1/2 of eve?
Lets just say for instance someone put together an even better MC with 5x the old NC capability it would still get steam rolled by NC+Goons+PL+who ever else they have blue. Or lets say the same new and improved MC tries to attack and take space in the south where they get to fight AAA+SE+Coven+Atlas+ROL+etc...
On a side note you speak of alliances that don't deserve the space they live in. You may want to look in the mirror, because without PL you would be in Jita.
Which is y they don't take space. Space holding mercs die. Sure staging POSes etc, but getting into the Sov war crap and having to defend and not simply attack = fail. Max damage [see what I did there] works if you have no space u need to watch and defend.
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Jimmy Duce
Gallente Shards of Apathy
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Posted - 2009.06.30 15:15:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tikka the problem is, no one could pay for the risk of using 200 Merc Caps.
As long as Sov ist like it is now and Titans are so many and powerful to kill a sub fleet, there will be no way for a Merc corp in 0.0. The needed power and the risk vs reward is out of limits right now.
mhhh fun? sand box? rifter sucide super caps?
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Jimmy Duce
Gallente Shards of Apathy
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Posted - 2009.06.30 15:20:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Venomire
Originally by: TZeer Wait, what?
There was no capital heavy mercenary before the stuff got seeded on TQ. The main difference was that not many allainces saw the need for massive capfleets. And when suddenly a well organised group could put close 100% of their members in cap ships and wreck havoc, the more carebearish alliances got a wakeup call. They where lagging behind, but only for so long.
Duh.
Like I said, that **** was dead when it started. Only I used more words.
Be nice! I had to read it twice to get it the first time.
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Stretchmeat Crotchquake
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.30 15:23:00 -
[32]
The problem with hiring out mercenaries is that alliances would get more bang for their buck by just buying more cap ships.
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Jimmy Duce
Gallente Shards of Apathy
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Posted - 2009.06.30 15:33:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Stretchmeat Crotchquake The problem with hiring out mercenaries is that alliances would get more bang for their buck by just buying more cap ships.
I must say serious goon postages have never dissapointed me before but you sir just failed to understand. FUN, SAND BOX, THIS IS WHAT I CHOOSE TO DO WITH MY GAME AND ISK.
I also don't think it will work in the long run cause if u don't hold space the constant replacement will kill you, but someone needs to try especially since you guys "won" eve. Look on the map. Nothin is wrong with the nap train. Valid tactic and no e honer and all that crap. But what are u goign to do now? Take down your own towers in Querious and dare anyone to take it? You've won and nobody can beat u. Atleast with someone that you can't "kick back to empire" Sov can have an X factor and be fun again.
Sure, you have no intrest in Catch, who would you just accomplished you goal. But wait a month or 3 years. You'll need something else to do. And after the eventual defeat of -A- and Atlas and anyone else foolish enough to stand against the swarm Eve = dead before I even tried my hand at the stupid boring CTA POS bash festival.
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Machine Delta
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.30 15:38:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jimmy Duce
Originally by: Stretchmeat Crotchquake The problem with hiring out mercenaries is that alliances would get more bang for their buck by just buying more cap ships.
I must say serious goon postages have never dissapointed me before but you sir just failed to understand. FUN, SAND BOX, THIS IS WHAT I CHOOSE TO DO WITH MY GAME AND ISK.
I also don't think it will work in the long run cause if u don't hold space the constant replacement will kill you, but someone needs to try especially since you guys "won" eve. Look on the map. Nothin is wrong with the nap train. Valid tactic and no e honer and all that crap. But what are u goign to do now? Take down your own towers in Querious and dare anyone to take it? You've won and nobody can beat u. Atleast with someone that you can't "kick back to empire" Sov can have an X factor and be fun again.
Sure, you have no intrest in Catch, who would you just accomplished you goal. But wait a month or 3 years. You'll need something else to do. And after the eventual defeat of -A- and Atlas and anyone else foolish enough to stand against the swarm Eve = dead before I even tried my hand at the stupid boring CTA POS bash festival.
You guys are crying pretty hard from empire about EVE BEING DEAD whilst not getting a ship, heading to 0.0 and doing something about it. We're not omnipresent, we don't want to control all of 0.0 space and we don't even want to destroy the game. We're just doing what we want to do to have fun and you should do the same and stop crying about what we do.
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Jimmy Duce
Gallente Shards of Apathy
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Posted - 2009.06.30 15:59:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Jimmy Duce on 30/06/2009 16:04:24 yes I'm mad [look I'm stealing your targets]. History is written by the victors. If you look around yourself and think Goonswarm is failswarm... I worry for you [not really, but I felt I should say it]. You've won, your currently having fun. You'll get bored and with the last "big" obstacle gone who will stop you when you do? [Big lie don't believe a word I'm saying] I have and have had friends in the swarm. They get bored. They tell their leaders they are bored and like good leaders they find something for their corp/alliance to do. What is the next thing to do now that you've "won" after the initial ohh this is the 100th time I've gotten and officer spawn with a pith-K capital shield booster amplifier modified enhanced? It 2 will eventually become boring.
[Ninja] Actually you are correct we should get into ships and find what's fun. Sometimes I fly to nol for fun. You know the funny thing I usually make it there and back and see nobody. This was when it was still Bob's space so after the reset I, like everyone else, knew the eventual outcome. I personally knew it cause I used to fly around bob space and see at most 6 in local. Nobody scanned for me, nobody bubbled the gate, I joked with my imaginary goonie friends maybe u should pass it onto ur leaders. I'm in X and there r 0 bob. Actually they were all neutral to me and I didn't check their corps so it might have even been pets or other noobs looking around. Eventually I'd like more than just X up for random roaming gang. I'd like an X up for a retake Delve campaign. And anyone with 3 brain cells knows u'd lose.
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III LightBringer
Gallente DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:29:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Beside the risk of deploying caps being too expensive - two three years ago the mc could offer firepower in form of experienced member and expensive equipment many alliance just didnt have, which could make a big adifference when used right. Today the skill required from an alliance pilot is to know how to jump to a cyno, activate siege and not miss the turn off siege command. Add a ridicolous moonincome to that and individual skill makes little difference.
So, back 2 years ago it was harder to jump to the cyno, warp to the warpin and hit the siege button, shooting what ever the FC told you to.
All you need to know is how to log on to TS, Listen to orders, fit your ship according to mission plan, know basic lag mechanics and if you are a goon you will need to know the meaning of the word "everyone"...
The only people needing real skills are dictors, hictors, covops and FC's. Cannon fodder never needed a brain. Not when MC was a powerhouse and not today.
Once lag was fixed, people started to field more ships and it became a numbers game. But still, the best FC win.
DBRB for life
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Jimmy Duce
Gallente Shards of Apathy
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:34:00 -
[37]
Originally by: III LightBringer
stuff and if you are a goon you will need to know the meaning of the word "everyone"...
DBRB for life
See ButterDog was right the swarm is failscading quick -A- atttack now before the station every single system [yeah I said it] and become bigger and better than CVA.
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Mr Blue
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:46:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Mr Blue on 30/06/2009 16:47:56
Originally by: Jimmy Duce
Originally by: III LightBringer
stuff and if you are a goon you will need to know the meaning of the word "everyone"...
DBRB for life
See ButterDog was right the swarm is failscading quick -A- atttack now before the station every single system [yeah I said it] and become bigger and better than CVA.
for once I accualy saw a intelligent goons reply on COAD, this must be historic..and then u start trolling away..geez U fail to graps the reality though....goons and several others here acualy got a serious point.
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Jimmy Duce
Gallente Shards of Apathy
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:51:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Jimmy Duce on 30/06/2009 16:52:15
Originally by: Mr Blue Edited by: Mr Blue on 30/06/2009 16:47:56
Originally by: Jimmy Duce
Originally by: III LightBringer
stuff and if you are a goon you will need to know the meaning of the word "everyone"...
DBRB for life
See ButterDog was right the swarm is failscading quick -A- atttack now before the station every single system [yeah I said it] and become bigger and better than CVA.
for once I accualy saw a intelligent goons reply on COAD, this must be historic..and then u start trolling away..geez U fail to graps the reality though....goons and several others here acualy got a serious point.
[Ninja cause I fail at forum coding]
:( But I'm in a trolling mood and I thought you guys killed Bob so that all of Eve can leave free and haz fun however they want. btw looking for group to run the fire chasim raid. You interested in Xing?
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Sgt Napalm
Caldari SiN. Corp Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.06.30 17:48:00 -
[40]
The first line in the thread can easily be changed to other versions of dinosaur play styles...
Ever since ISS there has been no real neutral alliance that could open 0.0 for the greater population of EvE players.
Fun to look at in history but impossible to duplicate due to the current EvE playing style.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 18:05:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Laechyd Eldgorn on 30/06/2009 18:05:53 No one would (generally) simply pay enough for being a mercenary. Sad story.
Free meatshield is so easy to get.
Sadly current situtation seems to be that pvp only needs to be fun not way to make isk. Go ratting go.
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Kaitou Shiroi
Gallente Hakata Group Blade.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 19:11:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Sgt Napalm
Ever since ISS there has been no real neutral alliance that could open 0.0 for the greater population of EvE players.
...Providence? I know I ganked my fair share of unaligned noobs there while blowing off steam. ---
Unless specifically stated otherwise, the opinions expressed in my posts do not reflect those held by my corporation or alliance.
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Cors
Gallente It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.06.30 19:12:00 -
[43]
There's still a place in EVE for mercs, just not as MC was at it's peak.
As folks have said, the days of a 50 man dread fleet being a hot knife cutting through the butter of an alliance is over. Not with individual alliance's fielding 200+ caps, with multiple titans.
What Mercs can do now is return to the TRUE calling of mercs. Focused fire behind enemy lines.
Hire a merc corp of 50 people that are heavy in recons, and pay them to kill any SHIP that moves in a hostile alliance's home space.
We've ALL seen some alliance that has been around for a while, weathered many pvp storms, only to fail cascade because of some cloaky recons picking off all the carebears. First the ratters are killed, then the pos fuelers are killed, then the jump freighters are killed, and so on, to the point where the target alliance can't get anything done in their space.
This is where Mercs can be useful today. Yes moon mining is where most of the isk comes from for ship replacements, but individual pilots morale is still based on their personal ability to make isk. If their wallet is low, they'll being a lower quality ship to pvp battles. They may not risk their dread in combat if they only have 200 mil isk in their wallet.
Chipping away at the morale of an alliance, especially one that is under attack by conventional cap fleets, is a sound tactic for Mercs.
Understand the limitations of a mercenary force, and the capabilities and you can STILL do a lot of damage. AND make merc work profitable.
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Venomire
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.06.30 19:29:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Cors We've ALL seen some alliance that has been around for a while, weathered many pvp storms, only to fail cascade because of some cloaky recons picking off all the carebears. First the ratters are killed, then the pos fuelers are killed, then the jump freighters are killed, and so on, to the point where the target alliance can't get anything done in their space.
People of Rise!
Roy
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.30 20:11:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Cors There's still a place in EVE for mercs, just not as MC was at it's peak.
As folks have said, the days of a 50 man dread fleet being a hot knife cutting through the butter of an alliance is over. Not with individual alliance's fielding 200+ caps, with multiple titans.
What Mercs can do now is return to the TRUE calling of mercs. Focused fire behind enemy lines.
Hire a merc corp of 50 people that are heavy in recons, and pay them to kill any SHIP that moves in a hostile alliance's home space.
We've ALL seen some alliance that has been around for a while, weathered many pvp storms, only to fail cascade because of some cloaky recons picking off all the carebears. First the ratters are killed, then the pos fuelers are killed, then the jump freighters are killed, and so on, to the point where the target alliance can't get anything done in their space.
This is where Mercs can be useful today. Yes moon mining is where most of the isk comes from for ship replacements, but individual pilots morale is still based on their personal ability to make isk. If their wallet is low, they'll being a lower quality ship to pvp battles. They may not risk their dread in combat if they only have 200 mil isk in their wallet.
Chipping away at the morale of an alliance, especially one that is under attack by conventional cap fleets, is a sound tactic for Mercs.
Understand the limitations of a mercenary force, and the capabilities and you can STILL do a lot of damage. AND make merc work profitable.
I agree actually. I think thats a good role for mercs. The op had asked about mercs that roll people's sovereignty though. But I think we all agree those days are gone.
But sure, I think a merc stealth bomber jump-bridge camping group would be pretty damned effective with the right equipment and training. That said it still woudn't be cheap. Those black ops are pretty expensive :)
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Mistress Suffering
Amarr Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 20:29:00 -
[46]
Jade actually nailed the main reason back on page 1:
The assets required to attack spaceholding entities is vastly more expensive than the assets required to hold the space. That means to actually compensate for the risk, you have to spend far more than the cost of what you're actually destroying in order to destroy it.
The other real challenge for Mercenary work, is that because the money is so lackluster all your contracts need to have a great big fun component. Here's a point that all the non-Mercs may not have realized - people like to pay to have unfun things done, not fun ones - knock down this POS, camp these guys until they won't undock, block all activity in this area, etc... Generally stuff that quickly becomes tedious when your foe stops playing with you. So why would player Mercs want to waste their time playing a game to not have fun? If you're not making loads of money to allow you to have more fun later, and you're not doing something intrinsically fun, then why should you even log on to this game at all?
Offer enough money or have enjoyable enough combat opportunities and Mercs remain quite findable. But then if you want to hit an NC sized blob, you'd better have enough money to get -A- interested ;P
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Ria Sotori
Caldari Poor Old Ornery nOObs Turdz Asshatz N Grieferz
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Posted - 2009.06.30 20:31:00 -
[47]
Mercenary work of the type the OP suggested could be done but the entity with the will and resources doesn't exist atm to pull it off . You would need a group of around 100-200 active cap pilot players that (a) are already wealthy from years of playing and (b) no longer have interest in 0.0 drama just want to do there own thing. Finding pilots like that in Eve is easy. Getting them to mesh into a group to accomplish the above without them wandering off would be next to impossible in today's game.
Merc Work outside of empire war decs in the future will probably be limited to dragoon contracts for small merc corps to bolster the defenses of an alliance in surgical strikes and harassment type raiding of enemy supply lines.
Much like other historical and fear provoking groups in Eve, The MC is a part of Eve's great history that I doubt we will see the likes of again. Today are the days of the Super NAP.
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Jimmy Duce
Gallente Shards of Apathy
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Posted - 2009.06.30 20:41:00 -
[48]
Once again adding my vast experience to the thread. What's the smallest size fleet that can take down an unmanned but armed and "well" fitted large POS? [to cut down on the retorcial question and see if I can actually direct the flow of internet spaceships I refuse to answer my own question, but if you do you get a cookie and I'll contact my goonie friends and they'll get you into the swarm for only 50 mill rather than the usual 500 mill].
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Aaron Mirrorsaver
Gallente R.E.C.O.N. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 20:49:00 -
[49]
even tho Im pretty sure the OP is trolling...
MC did what they did because they emerged with a cap fleet at a time when no one had a cap fleet to rival them.
Thats how they steam rolled the north. In modern day eve, their is no single alliance, merc or not that can take space from another alliance. Not without multiple people being involed on both sides. ------
RECON is recruiting |
Genuinely Windypops
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.06.30 21:05:00 -
[50]
Well Kia Eddz is probably the best at making up pretend 'contracts'. Mind you, he hasn't done that since he got found out lying about 3 or 4 'jobs' in a row. I've never seen a funnier burst of nerd rage than his rantings on CAOD when it was all exposed.
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Eacham Graeme
Caldari Noir.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 21:43:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Cors There's still a place in EVE for mercs, just not as MC was at it's peak.
As folks have said, the days of a 50 man dread fleet being a hot knife cutting through the butter of an alliance is over. Not with individual alliance's fielding 200+ caps, with multiple titans.
What Mercs can do now is return to the TRUE calling of mercs. Focused fire behind enemy lines.
Hire a merc corp of 50 people that are heavy in recons, and pay them to kill any SHIP that moves in a hostile alliance's home space.
We've ALL seen some alliance that has been around for a while, weathered many pvp storms, only to fail cascade because of some cloaky recons picking off all the carebears. First the ratters are killed, then the pos fuelers are killed, then the jump freighters are killed, and so on, to the point where the target alliance can't get anything done in their space.
This is where Mercs can be useful today. Yes moon mining is where most of the isk comes from for ship replacements, but individual pilots morale is still based on their personal ability to make isk. If their wallet is low, they'll being a lower quality ship to pvp battles. They may not risk their dread in combat if they only have 200 mil isk in their wallet.
Chipping away at the morale of an alliance, especially one that is under attack by conventional cap fleets, is a sound tactic for Mercs.
Understand the limitations of a mercenary force, and the capabilities and you can STILL do a lot of damage. AND make merc work profitable.
Spot on...
Redefining the roles of Merc's and the work that they do is the key to the success of that same unit. This poster has identified one excellent method, there are several other roles and tasks Mercs can excel at, just have to shift your thinking a wee bit.
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Order Mae
Gallente Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 21:54:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Garia666 contact the privateers.. for the empire work.. very effective
Yeah. They killed my alt's noob ship undocking from Jita 4-4 the other day. Who wants my stuff?
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Orree
Gallente Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.06.30 22:35:00 -
[53]
Originally by: TZeer Edited by: TZeer on 30/06/2009 12:18:32
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Beside the risk of deploying caps being too expensive - two three years ago the mc could offer firepower in form of experienced member and expensive equipment many alliance just didnt have, which could make a big adifference when used right. Today the skill required from an alliance pilot is to know how to jump to a cyno, activate siege and not miss the turn off siege command. Add a ridicolous moonincome to that and individual skill makes little difference.
Just adding to this one. I guess most of us remember when MC went north and brought 4 or 5? motherships. They killed pretty much whatever that was thrown at them, before going back down south.
Fast forward: It`s not too many weeks ago that "someone" up north lost 5 or was it 4? motherships in one single engagement.
Back then, motherships were much harder to kill because you basically had to neut them down completely and bump like crazy to keep them from warping off. Now we have hictors. I know you know this, but I'm just pointing out that motherships are not now what they were before.
Titans have also changed substantially, obviously.
Let's also keep in mind that MC were not acting alone in their contract against the North. They had quite a bit of help. I'm not trying to diminish in any way the impressive accomplishment of that MC campaign. I said then it was quite a well done campaign and I still believe that to be true.
Let's just all keep in mind how completely different the game is on so many levels from the vulnerability of supercaps, to the ability of the server to handle large battles, to the number of titans in the game and what they can and can't do (remote DDs, anyone?).
As bad as it is now, it was much worse then. Remember that really bad desynch bug...that seemed to happen alot with motherships on the grid?
The game is much bigger now than it was then. I'd agree with those that say simply isn't room for a truly neutral mercenary entity with MC-like firepower to flourish without them being significant holders of R64 moons.
In a way, PL is probably the current version of what MC used to be...only PL has happily shot many of the major powers it is currently allied with (and will no doubt do so again) and MC never did.
"How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli |
Garreck
Gallente Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.30 23:05:00 -
[54]
I should think current political (superalliances) and mechanical/logistical (risking 10s of billions in caps to take out 1 billion in tower assets) realities, combined with the nature of the recent demise of BoB triggered by* social engineering, that folks like GHSC would be in high demand as mercs. Mercs are not necessarily obsolete. Paying mercs to take on a coallition of alliances in a toe-to-toe cap battle in a lagfest is obsolete.
*I don't want to start an argument about whether or not pulling the plug on BoB was an event that could've been overcome. I'm merely illustrating a point.
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Jimmy Duce
Gallente Shards of Apathy
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Posted - 2009.07.01 00:26:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Garreck
*I don't want to start an argument about whether or not pulling the plug on BoB was an event that could've been overcome. I'm merely illustrating a point.
There you have it guys!!! CVA is for Bob. Watch them pull down their towers and it becomes the home of Bob. Bob the true and rightful owner of the glorious lands of Providence where faction drops are plentiful and officer spawns are easy.
btw, please don't mark me red free ratting in CVA roxors. We had a corp op last week netted almost 200 mill in iskies. And we docked a few times so your extortion is complete.
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Heathkit
Minmatar Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.01 02:30:00 -
[56]
The problem is POS warfare sucks. I'd much rather mine or rat than shoot POS all day for my isk.
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Slinktress
Gallente legion of qui Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.01 03:23:00 -
[57]
Originally by: SATAN What can any merc organization do against 1/2 of eve? Or the other 1/2 of eve?
Lets just say for instance someone put together an even better MC with 5x the old NC capability it would still get steam rolled by NC+Goons+PL+who ever else they have blue. Or lets say the same new and improved MC tries to attack and take space in the south where they get to fight AAA+SE+Coven+Atlas+ROL+etc...
On a side note you speak of alliances that don't deserve the space they live in. You may want to look in the mirror, because without PL you would be in Jita.
Note: When SATAN speaks in EVE, it's like "GOD" has spoken. ^^
I do wish the best to Noir. though; really good people to do business with.
~*~Slinktress~*~ |
Siicko
Amarr Cursed Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.01 03:35:00 -
[58]
The two alliances that are around that give that Merc power house feel imo is Tri and PL. I do not bother to get involved with everything they are up to but from what I've seen and what I feel they are capable of, my opinion leans toward those two alliances. I'd actually like to see PL push some people around on the map some more. The fact that I heard PL threatened to reset an alliance if they pulled out of the south and that alliance stayed, made me LOL no matter if it were rumor or truth. Gotta love the power one can obtain. Here's to watching power shift as time goes on!
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Alekseyev Karrde
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.07.01 04:34:00 -
[59]
It's not one reason; a lot of above posters have touched on the contributing factors. Any mercs are so far behind the supercap curve that it's unlikly sov-overturning units are likly to emerge unless mechanics change a lot (which they always could).
Mean time, the best bets for anti-0.0 alliance merc operations are the empire harassment war, the war/near-0.0 entry point camp, and the deep 0.0 asset denial. Mercs can be both extremely effective and extremely COST effective in that capacity. Sure you could buy a cap ship or two, but tbh if you go with a really solid unit (the only kind you should think about giving such sums of money too) you'll get more value out of the mercs.
---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
128th ABC123
Caldari Eve Liberation Force Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.07.01 08:01:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Vile rat Well the problem starts when "mercenaries" attempt to be 0.0 space holders as well.
Even worse when they have a subservient relationship with a major power bloc and only pay lip service to neutrality.
That wasn't an answer to his question, that was merely goon drivel.
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Hobblah
Caldari Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.07.01 08:29:00 -
[61]
My 2 cents on the subject. (I have been out of merc business for one and half years now so lot might have changed)
Who is willing to pay One of the main points in the whole thing is who in the end is willing to pay for mercenaries and how much?
If we take alliance breaking level effort with POS warfare and long campaing time, the realistic price of merc contract is in level that wery few are willing to pay. Lets say few weeks of taking severeignity could be easily worth 100bil or more. Who would you trust with this amount of money or would you rather do it yourself or die trying? This of course assumes that the mercs are neutral and hence not your friends.
As far as I'm aware, the merc outfits do fighting mostly for fun and charge fraction of realistic price to keep the business profitable.
On smaller scale, I have a feeling that larger alliances think it is bad for PR to be hiring mercs, which makes these harrassement contracts rare. Or at least rare compared to the amount of mercs around.
Role of mercenaries The one thing where I think mercs would be best suited is tipping the scales of fights or conflicts.
Instead of hiring merc alliance to do all the work, just hire mercs for single fight or for initial attack. If your POS is set to reinforced, call mercs to suprice the enemies when they try to take it down. Or if you attack hostile space, get one merc corp to harass them for week or two beforehand and then larger corp/alliance for the intitial couple of weeks of fighting.
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Tikka
Caldari Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner
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Posted - 2009.07.01 08:41:00 -
[62]
or just wait til ccp will change the way the Sov is working. The moment where you need to hit different targets without drawing to much effects from numbers, will be the day were mercs are an valid option.
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Jimmy Duce
Gallente Shards of Apathy
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Posted - 2009.07.01 13:29:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Hobblah words
No offense, it's not personal. Honest:D Ach, how many of you theory crafters have taken down a single POS??? Me Jimmy Duce the supreme overlord of the entirety of the forces behind the elite pvp coalition known as Eugrana colition has taken down 4 large POSes. small and medium never interest me so I've never tried those. I have NEVER seen 10 cap ships in my life. The most was 6. And 5 were random losely associated people who were bored one day and were like hey I scanned a POS wanna seige it? We had no goals, no intention of profiting but with like 3-4 different Coalitions that weren't red to each other and 1 very very unfortunate corporation that thoght that it was a good idea to put like 20 small missles on a POS it went poof.
So YES, a mercenary can't "win" soverienty warfare at the current level of eve, but if 6 cap ships [3 of whiche were carriers] and a couple bored BSs/BCs could take down some random POS on a Satruday and still come back after the reinforced this time with mora dreads and less useless carriers [obvious troll to keep Atlas from wardecing me] What about 50 caps? Tell me if a merc corp manages to keep say 70 members for over a year, 0/ Noir [there is a dot somewhere but lazy and actaully haven't checked your numbers recently], tell me they can't be effective. Time zones will be very useful, but if they field even 30 dreads at a known "empty" time of even the strongest alliance they can easily reinforce 6 POSes in a night. And average POSes holding Sov? I've seen a system, in gemenate the most luctritave 0.0 system ever [yes troll again for those not keeping up], where 1 POS was holding sov. And my coalition that at the time could only field 3 caps reinforced it 2 times. Unfortunately at their "peak" time they could field 7 caps and like 18 BSs. While we could field 20 BSs, some were alts of the cap ship pilots and so...
/tl/dr [please what does this mean] Mercs can't win 0.0, but they'd be a pain to fight against.
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Wrayeth
Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2009.07.01 14:39:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 01/07/2009 14:40:04 I'd say another reason why there are fewer real mercs these days hinges on the fact the war targets just refuse to undock anymore. EVE in general has become very risk-averse, more apt to do the "safe" thing than the "fun" thing. As such, whenever there's a possibility of risk, most people hide in station; this results in boredom on a massive level. The mercs can either sit there camping the station for hours with nothing to do, or they can ignore their merc contract entirely and go pew-pew other people. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Hobblah
Caldari Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.07.01 15:01:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Jimmy Duce
Originally by: Hobblah words
No offense, it's not personal. Honest:D Ach, how many of you theory crafters have taken down a single POS??? Me Jimmy Duce the supreme overlord of the entirety of the forces behind the elite pvp coalition known as Eugrana colition has taken down 4 large POSes. small and medium never interest me so I've never tried those. I have NEVER seen 10 cap ships in my life.
Do you really try to make difference between yourself and "theory crafters" like me by participating in four (4) killed POSes?
More on the topic, yes mercs can be pain to fight against but is that something anyone really wants to pay for? I agree that it is fairly easy to kill POSes of small allainces but then again, who wants to pay for killing weak targets?
What I'm after is actual merc corp or alliance instead of the multitude of random gankers who will do the same with or without getting paid.
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Necronomicon
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.01 15:07:00 -
[66]
Being a merc was great fun while it lasted, empire contracts were usuallt stagant within a couple of days as targets would dry up, dock up or just not logon. 0.0 contracts became more difficult with the increase in titans, naplists etc.
KIA were under no illusions that when we moved to Geminate after Tortuga that our merc days were numbered, you simply cannot conduct a mercenary business and not expect blowback over time on your home space. The MC had a big buffer behind BoB from which to conduct their business, so there was a lot less risk.
I do miss the merc days, but the business and 'reward v risk' is simply not there any more.
KIA - If I turn up on your thread, chances are you did somethign to bring me here.
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blunter
Minmatar FireTech
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Posted - 2009.07.01 15:18:00 -
[67]
Edited by: blunter on 01/07/2009 15:17:42 Firetech and Friends will take your merc contracts and hassle the living crap outta those pesky pests that seem to stain your nice new home station.
Just sendz me allz your iskz....
On a serious note, who can actually admit to wanting to use a merc alliance for something they should be able to do themselves?
-Blunt
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Jimmy Duce
Gallente Shards of Apathy
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Posted - 2009.07.01 15:27:00 -
[68]
Originally by: blunter Edited by: blunter on 01/07/2009 15:17:42 Firetech and Friends will take your merc contracts and hassle the living crap outta those pesky pests that seem to stain your nice new home station.
Just sendz me allz your iskz....
On a serious note, who can actually admit to wanting to use a merc alliance for something they should be able to do themselves?
-Blunt
Blunter can I haz a blue yet??? And please... don't let me troll ur people so easy. They are good pvpers [hence why I asked for the blue] but mentally... goonie like? Smart brain goons and the rest cannon fodder blobs? [works legal blah blah blah if I had a bigger blob I'd win]. Blunter can do it. I've fought against him. And lost p[see faul campign] He's the first merc I've EVER RECROMENDED {blue yet please???} my faction fitted ibis is stuck in grana.
Please re read my entire post. Mercs alone can't "win" a war, buut why lock down a singly system? {crap am I being trolled... great must stop the insomia it's breaking me done}
tl&dr blunter blue can I haz. No negotiations about no piracy cause you the CEO of so called antipirate podded a member of mine knowing fully well that high sec podding is concordable hence pirace way worse that low sec piracy. So no restrictions blue or go suck an egg and we'll keep running from ur massive blop until 2 years when I get a director in your silly little alliance and push the button. Yes goonies me kissing up can I has invite and ratting rights??? [screw ratting fully gonnie membership or my entire massive failed colation retakes delve if fail != true on Junly 31 you heard me!!!!!
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Halada
Caldari Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.07.01 17:13:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde Workin on it.
you go boyfriend ★ LSJV now recruiting ★ |
Scarr Face
Minmatar Cursed Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.01 23:23:00 -
[70]
The time for mercenary forces the size of the MC are a thing of the past. I agree that the cloaky cloaky griefing behind enemy lines thing still works very effectively...but the merc steamroller that was witnessed in the north just wont happen again.
The MC at its peak was truely an awesome thing to behold..and could today have still been a 'gamebreaker' in the scheme of things. Alas..like all things..eve is about adapting and changing with the game...something that MC probably was behind the curve on...and ultimately contributed to its demise.
Tortuga while a great idea of sorts...was the worst thing IMO that could have happened. Mercs cease to be mercs once they hold space. Couple that with not changing with mechanics of the game...and the most important thing...politics of the game...is a sure way to end a good thing.
The PL of today is the closest thing to resembling what MC could have been if not for some wrong turns made....and the comment about KIA being a 'legitimate' mercenary alliance is complete LOLz...granted some of the MC were experts in 'cuddly diplomacy'...but nothing comes close to the sheer talent eddz has of sucking the chrome off whoever's bumper :)
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Frogzuk
Gallente Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.07.01 23:45:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 01/07/2009 14:40:04 I'd say another reason why there are fewer real mercs these days hinges on the fact the war targets just refuse to undock anymore. EVE in general has become very risk-averse, more apt to do the "safe" thing than the "fun" thing. As such, whenever there's a possibility of risk, most people hide in station; this results in boredom on a massive level. The mercs can either sit there camping the station for hours with nothing to do, or they can ignore their merc contract entirely and go pew-pew other people.
^this
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Ambre Blanche
Amarr ICE is Coming to EVE Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.07.02 09:45:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Garia666 contact the privateers.. for the empire work.. very effective
Nothing better than a good laugh in the morning
Thank you for that Ambre.
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Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
Gallente Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.07.02 10:12:00 -
[73]
As one who was there from before the beginning to well after the end...
In 2004 FRICK & BDCI (some in BDCI called us the MC back then) started out just as it should have... a couple dozen pilots swarming over corps and then alliances when they got introduced... mostly through empire wars and at 0.0 gateways.
Personally I was happy with just FRICK and BDCI. But I think Seleene wanted to go after bigger fish and on a grander scale. Alliances and large solid power blocs were the future. We formed our own power block in early 2005 with TC and NSN and officially called it the MC. I went ahead and threw the card logo in there for show...
The four corps still operated in empire, still all four of us wardec'g alliances like FOE and Xetic. We ventured a little in 0.0 at that point but only around NPC and sovereignty swapping stations as there were only a handful compared to now.
It wasn't until the advent of significant POS warfare that the MC dove into 0.0. I remember Big Blue in June 2006 and fighting around insta-popping POS's.
Mynas is right. It was the T2 trade and the ISK that went with it that mostly fueled the MC.
As for 0.0 space; I don't believe the alliance we resided with mattered as long as we had a place to return to after a contract was over. I believe it could have been D2 for all we cared. BOB and Period Basis afforded us peace and relative quiet for a long time (save for a short invasion by -A-).
Sitting in empire is not a cure for boredom most of use really wanted to get out there and into 0.0 for good. Besides who doesn't mind 0.0 ratting from time to time or I dare say mining in 0.0... The game is meant to be played, not to get pigeon-holed into a limited niche (unless that's your desire). It was an inevitable evolution for the MC and one that ultimately led to our demise.
I saw us turn from a free-roaming small force into a moderately sized space holding alliance. if the MC wanted to compete with the big boys and bring heavy metal to the battlefield, which is what a lot of older pilots itching to train up those skills wanted to do, 0.0 was the only place we could build our own supercaps and flex those muscles.
All that has changed. Everyone and their mother, including my mother, has a cap ship of some sort...
The poster who said that roaming the back lanes with a small force is the only viable means as a mercenary force is probably right. About large, SOV holding, mercenaries, SATAN was spot on about the 1/2 of EVE comment but OFC I always agree with BURN EDEN.
The MC as an alliance is dead now. Time to move on. I have.
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Zackalwe
Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.02 12:15:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Zackalwe on 02/07/2009 12:17:37 This has been an interesting thread, thought I would chip in.
I do think there is a place for mercs in Eve, but not in the old MC capital blob way. A few assumptions I am basing this on:
1. To be a truly effective capital deploying force requries 0.0 space ownership with moongold. And a good corp/alliance based replacement program. The reason for this is if you are actually going to use capitals properly, sooner or later you will lose a load of them. I dont care how good you are. A couple of losses (or even costly wins) where an alliance loses 30 or 40 dreads would be crippling to any alliance that doesnt have these resources.
2. Owning 0.0 space effectively rules you out of being a merc these days, as your enemies have a place to hit you back at. Because of the polarisation of the political landscape no alliance will survive in 0.0 space if they are regularly taking contracts to kill friends of their neighbours.
3. Again because of the political landscape, no merc alliance can be reasonably expected to acheive anything in 0.0 alone. Doing covops wolfpax fleets in the back areas of an alliance is annoying but is not really threatening to space sov.
So that leaves a 0.0 merc corp with the following requirements:
Cannot own 0.0 really, must rely on other income (industry, contract money, individual pilots missioning).
The above means that fielding caps is a no-no, fleets must be cost-effective and insurable. So maybe fleet BS or RR-BS as a core shiptype.
Must have a good reputation for honouring contracts and being a useful addition to a force (kindof obvious for any merc enterprise). And be neutral when the job is done (no always contracting to one side). Also means respecting your enemy as well as your friend, in case they are future employers.
Must be good at working with other fleets. Most deployments will be in support of other co-ordinated operations.
If a merc group was based on this I think it could make a good name. The way I see it working is in support of alliances waging sov war.
As an example I know of an alliance that has a very good capital fleet and the resources and replacement program to field it consistently. It is very good with this cap fleet and would not consider help from a cap-based merc corp. (they have freinds with caps if the need is there). What it does sometimes find though is that it has a capital fleet many times bigger than its support fleet. A merc corp could conceivably fill this niche from time to time, when allied support is not available.
I dont know, it would be a headache maybe. There are issues with blue status, and communications (presumably you would not want a merc corp access to alliance TS). Above all there would have to be trust, both in that the merc corp will fight well and to the death if required to support the cap fleet, and trust in that the merc corp will not betray its contract. Perhaps the standard contract would include a provision of reimbusement for merc ships lost in the battle. Like a 30mill cover for insurance or something per BS lost.
It would be interesting to see the attempt anyway. 60 or so mercs in T2 fleet battleships with the experience and skill to work in 0.0 warfare.
The trouble is it would be hard to make it pay. _
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