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Plentath
Sudden Buggery
21
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Posted - 2012.05.21 12:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tel Airuta wrote:after spending nearly an hour scanning down a 3/10 site in a 0.9 system
I found the problem.
Luckily, you can fix this all by yourself and CCP don't need to change the rules for you. |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
21
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Posted - 2012.05.21 12:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Also, your "key" idea is completely stupid as it will have the OPPOSITE effect.
The more skilled players will be able to scan the site faster than you and get to the key first, preventing you from even scavenging the wrecks.
You'll not be in EvE in 3 months time, I can tell you that right now for a fact. No one who is this mad~ about being beaten to a wreck will go very far. |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
21
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Posted - 2012.05.21 12:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
OP:
After reading your posts more thoroughly I would like to suggest that at one month of playtime, you start listening to what people who have been playing the game for years have to say, and stop raging and sticking your fingers in your ears.
I now rate your EvE lifespan at 2months.
Tel Airuta wrote:Concord protects them from any aggression
At least learn the basics of the game before you come here and ask for it to be changed, OK? |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
24
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Posted - 2012.05.21 13:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tel Airuta wrote:Plentath wrote:Also, your "key" idea is completely stupid as it will have the OPPOSITE effect.
The more skilled players will be able to scan the site faster than you and get to the key first, preventing you from even scavenging the wrecks.
You'll not be in EvE in 3 months time, I can tell you that right now for a fact. No one who is this mad~ about being beaten to a wreck will go very far. As opposed to having started the plex and running through it, only to have a t3er come charging through the back door which you cleared and then happily proceed to **** everything in site therefore denying any chance the newbie complete the high sec plex? Yeah sure.
I can stop you here friend.
You're asking for the content to sit behind an instance.
This will never ever ever ever happen in EvE as long as the servers are running, whether it is by some magical "key" or by another mechanic.
OK, so you can stay here and rage and rage and spit all over your keys as much as you want, but I will tell you this:
You have completely failed to grasp what Eve Online is, at the very core, and unless you stop ranting and raving and start listening you never will. |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
24
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Posted - 2012.05.21 13:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tel Airuta wrote:Plentath wrote:OP: After reading your posts more thoroughly I would like to suggest that at one month of playtime, you start listening to what people who have been playing the game for years have to say, and stop raging and sticking your fingers in your ears. I now rate your EvE lifespan at 2months. Tel Airuta wrote:Concord protects them from any aggression At least learn the basics of the game before you come here and ask for it to be changed, OK? Slow clap. Good to know that so many carebears are concerned about access to 1-3/10 sites - probably because thats all they ever do.
And the problem?
It's a sandbox. They get to chose to do it.
You get to chose ways of stopping them.
Stop ******* crying about it and LEARN. |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
24
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Posted - 2012.05.21 14:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Roime wrote:Tippia wrote:But that's just it: the solution to what? What is the problem? So what if new players can't compete until they've built up a stock of good equipment and handling skills and a bit of familiarity with the game? He can still use the same sites to hone his skills and to try to eke out an increasingly large slice of the pie. One day, he'll be able to keep it all to himself GÇö he is now able to compete fully (or maybe he just got luckyGǪ).
The problem is old players robbing new players of their income in entry level sites, in EVE's starter area. Winning a DED 4/10 requires 0 player skill, all you need to have is either a pimped Ishtar or a T3, and you win it every time against every newer player that does not have access to those ships due to skills. SP wins the plex for you, not your player skills. (Carebears always read site walk-throughs anyway so they can't die or experience anything unexpected) This creates a situation where newer players are forced to lowsec where competition is not so bad (like I did), but older player can choose high sec and be competitive there. Same thing happened to Incursions. Safety & high rewards turn high sec into a carebear farming paradise, that caters to high SP players with already substantial resources- instead of serving it's true purpose as th enew player training area. But tell, Tippia, what was your argument against locking T3s from hisec plexes? As you know, plexes already have ship limits. Should these be removed? Why are those already existing limits there?
Your post is well intentioned, and in a large part I can't really disagree. What I can say is Eve isn't fair, and competition in this manner will always favour those with an edge, whether this is fitting, ship or SP.
What will locking T3s out do? Make the superbear use a Drake? What if he doesn't always win on those terms ... you don't think he'll use faction mods to restore his competition?
The logical solution to this is to STOP COMPETING if you have no chance to win on the terms as given. You don't need to go to lowsec to find 3/10 or 4/10 sites - they often sit around in quiet highsec for hours untouched. |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
25
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Posted - 2012.05.21 15:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Roime wrote:I agree about the last part, makes no sense to bang your head to the wall, but I would just like high sec to have mechanisms that don't favour everbears in blingships over new players. Competition should emphasize player skill over SP, that's all. There's no way you can achieve this, however, without also removing the rewards of skilling up and buying better gear.
Even if you lock out T3s, then the new player is going to lose to the guy in a Drake who can use precision missiles and has enough spare tank to fit multiple target painters.
I don't generally disagree with your intentions, but EvE is a game where new players need to compete on different terms.
For instance, the everbears you're describing are complete loners in EvE and fly solo the entire time.
Counter: New player fits out a Heron to probe loot and salvage, allowing his corp mate to fit his Tengu for full DPS.
Everbear comes in with his all-in-one scanning Tengu and gets beaten by a less specialized ship being assisted by a new player.
That's how the sandbox should counter an inept player sitting on an SP advantage.
Or, you know, you could go on the forums and wail for magic keys. |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
29
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Posted - 2012.05.21 17:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Roime wrote:While obviously sandbox solutions are great, there shouldn't be I WIN-buttons in the sandbox. And a T3 against a T1 Arbi is a foolproof win every time. It isn't ... because you aren't thinking "sandbox" you're thinking "this instance".
When I was a noob in highsec I made quite a bit of money by taking a double-stabbed Stabber (I named it two stabby Mc stabby) into these exploration sites and cloaking.
When a bling Tengu (or whatever) got in the site and started running it, who do you think got the loot from the faction rats?
Hint: It was me.
You just need to adapt. If you can't out-DPS someone then you need to stick a lever in from a different angle and move the problem another way.
I absolutely protest your central notion, because all it would do is tell new players that the only way to get better in EvE is in ships, SP and fittings, and not by getting friends or thinking smarter.
I did it, so can he. |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
33
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Posted - 2012.05.22 08:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Liliana Rahl wrote:On that note though, T3 should be locked out of high sec plexes. Not for the reasons the OP has given but simply because its just silly that such a powerful ship is used to do those sites.
I welcome all tengu pilots to delightfully refute this point.
Name another ship with a scan bonus that can run 3 or 4/10s ?
The strat cruisers are pretty much specifically designed to do exactly this; locking them out would be like saying a Stiletto can't fit a warp disruptor as it's too good of a tackler.
I don't actually fly a Tengu, but I should be allowed to if I want to. There's nothing about a Tengu that shouldn't allow it into highsec scan sites except YOU don't think it's worthwhile.
Yesterday I saw a 2005 toon in a Legion running highsec ANOMALIES.
Now I think this is sad as all hell, but he should be allowed to do it if he wants to. |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
36
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Posted - 2012.05.22 11:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Liliana Rahl wrote:Plentath wrote:
Name another ship with a scan bonus that can run 3 or 4/10s ?
The strat cruisers are pretty much specifically designed to do exactly this; locking them out would be like saying a Stiletto can't fit a warp disruptor as it's too good of a tackler.
I don't actually fly a Tengu, but I should be allowed to if I want to. There's nothing about a Tengu that shouldn't allow it into highsec scan sites except YOU don't think it's worthwhile.
Yesterday I saw a 2005 toon in a Legion running highsec ANOMALIES.
Now I think this is sad as all hell, but he should be allowed to do it if he wants to.
I agree with you 100% that they are specifically designed to make plexing easier and more efficient. With that said, they should be restricted to doing it in low sec.. Explain why.
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Plentath
Sudden Buggery
36
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Posted - 2012.05.22 11:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tsubutai wrote:I like how people howling about the notion of putting keys in plexes are apparently unaware that several of the current plexes already have keys of one sort or another. No, I'm not. You're wrong.
I own all of these keys so I can unlock any of the gates.
OP is asking for a unique key for his mission, which creates an instance.
If he is literally just asking for the same mechanic to be put in, then I don't care; since all that will happen is people like me ninja his **** instead. As long as it's possible to enter the deadspace pocket there is no issue WRT the sandbox. |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
37
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Posted - 2012.05.23 11:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Mixture of rose-tinted glasses, whine and elitism
I don't think you get EvE at all.
They're a thing that anyone can find at anytime and get the reward. Of COURSE there is competition over them, to suggest there shouldn't be is completely silly.
Also, exactly WHEN did you play EvE when it was all proper gentlemen tipping their hats at other passers by? That's not how I remember EvE at any point. |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
37
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Posted - 2012.05.23 22:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Obviously you didn't understand what I wrote or you have no clue due to being a fairly new player
Here's your first argument based on an appeal to false authority. I'm going to call it being elitist.
Quote:sarcastic failed attempt at trolling Failed? FAILED? You posted a whole lot of "I AM MAD!"
So no, not failed.
Quote:It was very complicated and time consuming requiring a lot of patience and a much higher skill level than what is currently needed Elitism.
Also, there wasn't REALLY any more skill involved at all, it was just a **** load more annoying and time consuming. In fact, it was rather more reliable than the current system. I used the old system, it was changed because it was needlessly annoying.
But your point is basically "Gee, now ANYONE can do it!"
Which is elitism.
Quote:I started playing this game at the start of Empyrean Age - Summer Expansion, 2008. I trained up specifically for exploration.
I played RMR -> Trinity before I quit for a long time due to University. Want to make more silly assumptions based on the age of a forum posting character?
"It was made a lot easier and faster, requiring a much lower skill level than before. More exploration sites were added including w-systems and an Exploration Career Agent. A lot more players are now doing it."
This is a good thing. Barriers to entry that were based on undocumented techniques and a cumbersome UI are not good for gameplay.
"Here's a bit of advice for you: Try contributing some worthwhile information to the conversation"
I did. It's you who came in here with a terrible elitist attitude and telling people how it was all better in the old days because you got to have the sites to yourself. |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
37
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Posted - 2012.05.24 09:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Holy bajeesus are you mad.
No, not angry, just flat out bonkers. Everything someone says that you don't agree with is a "proven fact" and "I know better as I have played longer"
You are exactly the kind of whiney, self aggrandizing and entitled sperg who thinks that part of the game is "theirs" and others should be locked out of it.
Yes, I ******* used the old probing system. No, it did not take any more skill. It just took a lot of ******* around for no good reason.
Having to change your probes type instead of being able to set the range didn't take more skill, it was just ANNOYING and counter-intuitive. Being unable to search for all types at once if your skills were low was a stupid barrier and it was ANNOYING. Having to warp to probes and drop new ones was ANNOYING. Having to warp, destroy and drop probes was a click fest, frustrating and ANNOYING. Is it the ferret or fathom probe next? Counter-intuitive. People who chose to actually do this were ******* masochists and making the barrier to entry frustration and annoyance was not a good thing. Seriously. What the **** are you on?
The system now is essentially 3D geometry and actually makes some logical sense.
The new system takes more player skill to do well. Under the old system you simply needed to know what to do, and deal with the inevitable frustration of applying it. The new system actually requires you to look at the results, interpret them in 3D space and then make a decision on how to set your 5-8 probes. All you needed to do on the old system was drop the right probe for the result strength.
Quote:You may think making exploration easily accessible to a 1 day old player is a good thing because it increases more competition. Unfortunately that's not the case, which is clearly proven by the op. What? OP proved that you can whine and ask for an instance in a sandbox. That's not a valid argument for or against anything other than he is a whiney babby and won't listen.
Quote:Due to exploration sites being easily accessible and the low risk factor involved, high sec has become 'fished out' a) They're not fished out. Care to explain how I have made a lot of ISK from them in the past few months? b) If they were, go to lowsec. Supply / demand and working as intended.
I love how you can say they are "fished out" when the reason people farm for the GSO is to find a module where the demand exceeds the supply and it's ergo worth a lot of ISK
Quote:And yes, my point is indeed "Gee, now ANYONE can do it!" and yes it was indeed better in the ole days due to being a 'specialized' career path. That's not elitism, it's called realism. No, it's you being elitist and being completely unable to see the failure of logic in your own argument. Other arguments that have historically been "realism" : - Segregation - Women not being able to vote - Apartheid
You're basically just whining and moaning that CCP changed a game mechanic to make it more popular, and as a result your profits have gone down. Forget that off the back of this thousands of players have taken it up, DeMichael Crimson wants it to be his little playground.
You're literally suggesting players being less frustrated and having more fun is a bad thing.
Christ. |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
40
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Posted - 2012.05.24 15:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kiteo Hatto wrote:Funny you should mention it, I AM using dscan before i even launch DSP in the system just to check if there is any probes/ competition. I also use dscan throughout the scanning process, i speed up my scanning if i see someone in local thats not a miner/transport. At that point, local was empty and there weren't a single soul in the system. Who in the right mind fits a cloaky t3 in hisec ?! 1. Tengu appeared on dscan when i was in the first room, HOWEVER there was no indication(no wrecks) that anyone visited the site i was in. I thought that i was the first. 2. What happened was i scanned the system for sites after he's done it with his alt, he logged onto his main>he skipped room 1, he left, i wasted time. Sure, that was some bad timing. Also, it was my first time ever doing Sansha vigil's that morning so i didn't even realise that the control outpost tower thingy was missing from the overview filled with red crosses, my bad, i should google everything before i do anything in eve, because that's SO MUCH FUN to follow a walkthrough/guide.
What's your point?
You've pretty much explained that what you did ought to have worked for you, but you still seem to be whining, based on some unlucky series of events?
I'm lost.
It looks more likely you didn't DScan at all (there had to be wrecks) and you're now weaving a yarn.
Either way, is any of this pertinent to the discussion? |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
42
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Posted - 2012.05.24 16:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kiteo Hatto wrote:Plentath wrote:
What's your point?
You've pretty much explained that what you did ought to have worked for you, but you still seem to be whining, based on some unlucky series of events?
I'm lost.
It looks more likely you didn't DScan at all (there had to be wrecks) and you're now weaving a yarn.
Either way, is any of this pertinent to the discussion?
I just shared my exploration experience, thats all. OP shared his thoughts but i guess that sharing my ideas on "consumable keys and clear the first room to proceed" are somehow classified as whining by you, even if i think that it would help new players to not waste their time on already blitzed sites
We've already beat this over the head.
tl;dr -
* Instanced content will never appear in EvE. Suck it up. * If it did appear, it would be a nerf to new players who can think outside the box and buff to old players with better skills and equipment
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Plentath
Sudden Buggery
42
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Posted - 2012.05.24 17:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Quote:You missed my whole point. Im saying that a rat should drop the gate key and the only way for that rat to appear is to fight through the waves. Also, that key is to be CONSUMED on the gate use.
This would give an indication that someone has done the site incase SOMEONE warps in to a site thats been blitzed(by destroying a tower that leaves no wreckage).
I don't see how the suggestion helps any, I really don't.
As it stands, if someone blitzes the site and spawns and pops the overseer then the entire thing despawns seconds after they leave the grid. You would possibly save the once-in-a-blue-moon instance of someone trying to start a site that is seconds from completion ... but then under the current mechanics you can see that happening on Dscan anyway.
Whether the site is "blitzable" or "kill all" seems like a moot point - again, how does this in any way help? |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
46
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Posted - 2012.05.25 08:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kiteo Hatto wrote:Mei ra'Zhault wrote:You know you can see wrecks on dscan, right? Now i realize that my wrecks and ships+probes are in different tabs and i have the little "use current overview settings" checked. Thanks. Was this sarcasm or has this genuinely helped?
Basically the tl;dr is:
- Scan site - Look at it on DSCAN (narrow it to the result) - See wrecks? A ship? Cans? You pretty much don't want to bother - Bonus points -- you can look for other's probes and work out if it's worth starting
If you're newish to DSCAN or your ship aligns/warps fast you can simply warp to the start of the complex, set your range to 60,000km and scan.
If you don't want to compete then I recommend looking at the map. You are looking for:
- Yellow sec status, so 0.5 & 0.6 - Low number of pilots
Personally I use ombrey maps (google em) and plan my routes around those areas of space accordingly.
I'm not using hyperbole when I say I haven't seen anyone else running a site I'm running in as long as I can remember.
If you're hellbent on not being more than 5 jumps from Jita then you'll need to compete with everyone else with the same logic. |
Plentath
Sudden Buggery
47
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Posted - 2012.05.25 09:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kiteo Hatto wrote:Plentath wrote:Kiteo Hatto wrote:Mei ra'Zhault wrote:You know you can see wrecks on dscan, right? Now i realize that my wrecks and ships+probes are in different tabs and i have the little "use current overview settings" checked. Thanks. Was this sarcasm or has this genuinely helped? Basically the tl;dr is: - Scan site - Look at it on DSCAN (narrow it to the result) - See wrecks? A ship? Cans? You pretty much don't want to bother - Bonus points -- you can look for other's probes and work out if it's worth starting If you're newish to DSCAN or your ship aligns/warps fast you can simply warp to the start of the complex, set your range to 60,000km and scan. If you don't want to compete then I recommend looking at the map. You are looking for: - Yellow sec status, so 0.5 & 0.6 - Low number of pilots Personally I use ombrey maps (google em) and plan my routes around those areas of space accordingly. I'm not using hyperbole when I say I haven't seen anyone else running a site I'm running in as long as I can remember. If you're hellbent on not being more than 5 jumps from Jita then you'll need to compete with everyone else with the same logic. I wasn't being sarcastic, that helped. Thanks for the help also Plentath, I do check the map and always go for low player systems first, didn't know about ombrey maps though, thanks again.
May as well link them: http://www.ombeve.co.uk/ Download: http://www.ombeve.co.uk/Eve_Regions.pdf
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