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Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.05 12:20:00 - [1] My skills should have torpedoes flight time increased by 50% and velocity increased by 30%. Neither is true and I can tell it by reading info and by the effective range of torpedoes which is so crappy you might as well run up and stick a satchel charge in his hold. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.05 12:25:00 - [2] They do, but it is not visible in the Item info. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.07.05 12:43:00 - [3] Yeah, you might want to FIT the launcher and LOAD the ammo first, before doing a showinfo on the loaded ammo. EVE issues\|Mining revamp\|Build stuff\|Make ISK
Ihmen Shank	Posted - 2009.07.05 12:52:00 - [4] [cough] EBAY!
GGjita	Posted - 2009.07.05 12:57:00 - [5] op = troll, and not even a good one
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa Minmatar The Perfect Harvesting Experience	Posted - 2009.07.05 13:01:00 - [6] Originally by: Ihmen Shank [cough] EBAY![/cough] There, fixed it for you. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Paper Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
Ihmen Shank	Posted - 2009.07.05 13:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa Originally by: Ihmen Shank [cough] EBAY![/cough] There, fixed it for you. Ah! Thank you.
Holy Lowlander Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.07.05 14:26:00 - [8] fail troll is fail. _______________ Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Leiara Knight Gallente The Oblivion Guard	Posted - 2009.07.05 14:35:00 - [9] Once I hurt my finger and it took quite some time to heal properly. How much bigger is a mind?
Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.05 17:41:00 - [10] Two out of eight responses reasonable. With this forum it could have been worse. And the torps don't do anything beyond 9-10Km which means neither the velocity or flight time has increased. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain

Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2009.07.05 17:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Ihmen Shank [cough] EBAY![/cough] I'd give you cough drops for that, but considering OP... -
Bootleg Greg Minmatar CHILL Industries	Posted - 2009.07.05 18:27:00 - [12] Remember, #1. Load charges into siege launchers #2. Go to assembly screen #3. Right click on siege launchers, show charge info This should tell you how the skills effect missiles. Torpedoes should go about 30-38km with skills. If you do everything above, the skills still do not effect and you still cannot hit anything 10km+, petition is the only thing i can recommend.
Cambarus Clearly Compensating	Posted - 2009.07.05 19:30:00 - [13] Come look me up any time in game, I'd be more than happy to help you test your torps ^_^
Chomapuraku Caldari Templar Republic	Posted - 2009.07.05 19:37:00 - [14] (fits T2 passive hardeners, heads into 50-man gatecamp) AAHHH!! THE SKILLS!! THEY DO NOTHING!! Originally by: Misanth Being nice doesn't pay off, you should stop listening to the right shoulder parrot. The left one is usually right. so she shouldnt listen to the left one either?
Fifi LeFume No Trademark	Posted - 2009.07.05 19:41:00 - [15] Originally by: Chomapuraku (fits T2 passive hardeners, heads into 50-man gatecamp) AAHHH!! THE SKILLS!! THEY DO NOTHING!! I LOL'd
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Interstellar eXodus	Posted - 2009.07.05 21:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Aus Dog Two out of eight responses reasonable. With this forum it could have been worse. And the torps don't do anything beyond 9-10Km which means neither the velocity or flight time has increased. You were shooting a moving target. Do I win a prize?
Kail Storm	Posted - 2009.07.05 21:43:00 - [17] Edited by: Kail Storm on 05/07/2009 21:43:35 You need to list your skills so we can help you, also were you using BCS?
FT Diomedes Gallente Factio Paucorum	Posted - 2009.07.05 21:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Aus Dog Two out of eight responses reasonable. With this forum it could have been worse. And the torps don't do anything beyond 9-10Km which means neither the velocity or flight time has increased. What ship are you using them on? ...this doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.07.05 22:09:00 - [19] Edited by: Kyra Felann on 05/07/2009 22:09:53 Ze skills--zey do nothing! EDIT: Ah, I now realized that I was beaten to the punch. Oh well.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.06 00:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Kail Storm You need to list your skills so we can help you, also were you using BCS? OP's already implied he has Missile Bombardment 5 and Missile Projection 3 - and BCS have absolutely no effect on range, so that's irrelevant. I suspect the OP's post stems from a misunderstanding about how missile ranges actually work, and how a missile velocity of 4km/s and a flight time of 5 seconds does not mean you'll necessarily hit a target that's 19.9km away when you fire, for a number of reasons.

Kail Storm	Posted - 2009.07.06 02:27:00 - [21] I suspect the OP's post stems from a misunderstanding about how missile ranges actually work, and how a missile velocity of 4km/s and a flight time of 5 seconds does not mean you'll necessarily hit a target that's 19.9km away when you fire, for a number of reasons. May sound dumb but why not? What are the reasons?
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Interstellar eXodus	Posted - 2009.07.06 03:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Kail Storm May sound dumb but why not? What are the reasons? 1. Missiles take time to accelerate; typically, take off 2-3km off EFT/calculated range by default. 2. Both you and your target are moving constantly (in most cases). The missile needs to travel to the target, and once launched, is totally independent from your ship. If the enemy ship is moving away from you, each kilometer the ship moves is another kilometer the missile needs to travel to hit it. Even if you keep up with the hostile ship, and stay perfectly at 10km; that doesn't mean a missile with a 15km range will necessarily hit. 3. Unlike guns, missiles take time to hit a target. It could easily warp out before missiles hit. On the flip side, if you warp out, all of your missiles in flight will stop within a few seconds, regardless of how much range is still has left. These are some of the more obvious reasons that come to mind.
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr SPORADIC MOVEMENT Cult of War	Posted - 2009.07.06 04:28:00 - [23] Oh God not this twit again......
Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.06 17:06:00 - [24] I am firing the Torps from Raven. With all the bonuses thus far supposedly accrued my Torps should be going 21,600 meters. As I say over 10km forget it. And I do have a petition in but if it's not on a mission the petition will rot b4 it is read. And the enemies movement away from me couldn't be that much unless MWD works for the Rats and not us. Wouldn't surprise me. The torp should be getting a 50% bonus to flight time and a 60% bonus to velocity...provided I don't waste anymore time training skills that do nothing. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2009.07.06 17:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Aus Dog I... unless MWD works for the Rats and not us. Guess what? It does work for the rats and not us. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.07.06 17:30:00 - [26] My apoligies to those in this thread who haven't been following OP's previous posts. To the OP: You're not firing the torps out of your Maelstrom, are you?!?!?
Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.06 17:45:00 - [27] Nope. Read up. From a Raven. Like the Mal but decided since they seem to have given the Level 3 rats Level 4 damage dealing I better fly what is the best bet for me. Did some asteroid testing and they are going off on asteroids at 23km but no damage report. Tried 20 and 21km and no damage report. 19km is where it has decided my torps should do damage. I really am not that poor at math and they should be good to 21,600 meters. Hell. I'll be happy if they damage a rat at 19km. We'll see. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.07.06 18:14:00 - [28] Well this I can see. As Atsuko said earlier, the math doesn't always work out quite right. If CCP gets back to you on this, let me know. I had a rather embarrassing encounter a few years back when I brought a Raven for a POS siege and found that despite my calculated range, my torpedoes couldn't hit the tower from the shield perimeter.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Interstellar eXodus	Posted - 2009.07.06 20:07:00 - [29] Reread my post and learn some basics.
Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.06 21:00:00 - [30] I understand there are lots of variables both expected and unforeseen. There is some kind of law of averages that would apply such as if your torps hit your target 0% of the time at say 18km it is a pretty safe bet that your torps are not working at that range. As long as your torps work sometimes at that range then it is a fair bet that the torps are capable of being used at that range. That's all I ask is that they work sometimes in the NEIGHBORHOOD of what they are supposed to do. Even though the numbers say 21,600 meters if they work sometimes at 19km I'll be happy. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain

Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.06 21:54:00 - [31] Originally by: Aus Dog Did some asteroid testing and they are going off on asteroids at 23km but no damage report. Tried 20 and 21km and no damage report. 19km is where it has decided my torps should do damage. There you are then - you've emperically worked out the effect of one of the factors that reduces range, and so you now know that under ideal conditions you can get 19km range out of your torps. Quote: I really am not that poor at math and they should be good to 21,600 meters. It's not an issue of maths; you've made some incorrect assumptions (i.e. that missiles will fly as far as max speed * flight time, which is not true as you showed during your asteroid test). Now you just need to account for the movement of the target ship when firing at rats. I can assure you that the skills do work (you wouldn't hit at 19km with torps if you weren't in a Raven, or if you didn't have Missile Bombardment and Missile Projection trained), but range at firing time is not by itself a guarantee of being able to hit anything. The closer the NPCs are to you, the less likely they'll be able to outrun the missile completely due to their manouevering, but conversely the faster they go the more likely this is. Really though, you're not likely to get good results on anything smaller than battlecruisers with torps, regardless of whether the missiles hit them at all or not. The good news is that NPC BCs and BSes aren't very manouverable, so if you can get them in range and keep them there (probably about 15km in your current situation if they're trying to move away from you), you shouldn't have many problems hitting.
Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.07 10:51:00 - [32] They are doing a fine job at 19 or less. Being that I take the trouble and expense to use Caldari Navy Torps I would like a bit more damage but you get what you get. Used to be Level 3's I didn't really get my heart thumping and after three heart attacks I have to control how much stimulation I get. The difference in DPS between Level 3 and Level 2 is absurd. I think after having run so many Level 3's they arbitrarily crank up the NPC's DPS to make it a challenge again. JC. I enjoy mindless repitition. Takes my mind away. When you run a level 4 and have to take your BP that is not good. That's why I dropped back to no higher that Level 3 and now it's getting to be too much. Level 2's are only good for light testing. I realize if I wanted mindless repitition I should play WOw but that really is brain-dead. Just turn back Level 3 to what it was a month ago. Please. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
Merbusent	Posted - 2009.07.07 11:23:00 - [33] I Swore singularity the charge info is reflected by skills accuratly now, but its down.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.07 12:45:00 - [34] Originally by: Aus Dog Being that I take the trouble and expense to use Caldari Navy Torps I would like a bit more damage but you get what you get. Bear in mind the massive explosion radius of torpedoes, meaning that you won't do the torps' stated full damage to any ship unless you're taking steps to mitigate this factor. Specifically, fitting Rigor rigs and/or target painters is really necessary to get the most out of your torpedoes. Having said that, if you're really running level 3s then torps are not going to be much good at all, given that (to my understanding) there are almost no battleships in those missions, so everything you're firing at is BC-sized and below. Unless you're using multiple Rigor rigs and target painters, I expect you'd be able to clear the missions faster with a Drake, firing heavy missiles. Much more range, much better delivery of damage to target, and since you're happy enough splashing out for CN torps, you can take the option of Fury missiles for even more damage at a fraction of the cost. Torps are intended for anti-battleship use, and even then you need to put in some extra effort to get them to work effectively. Using them for things universally smaller than battleships is inefficient. (Arguably, the same can be said for battleships themselves...) Quote: The difference in DPS between Level 3 and Level 2 is absurd. I think after having run so many Level 3's they arbitrarily crank up the NPC's DPS to make it a challenge again. Nope - the missions don't dynamically adjust like this; chances are you just had a spate of easy ones followed by a spate of hard ones. Quote: When you run a level 4 and have to take your BP that is not good. That's why I dropped back to no higher that Level 3 and now it's getting to be too much... I enjoy mindless repitition. If you like mindless with no risk, then a max-tank Drake will take anything that level 4 missions can throw at it (it'll tank something like 1500 incoming DPS for anything except Amarrian enemies); it's not hard to set up, simply: Lows: 4x Shield Power Relays Mids: 2 x Large Shield Extenders, 4 x Mission-specific hardeners Highs: 7x Heavy Missile Launchers Rigs: 3 x Core Defence Field Purgers This will do really mediocre damage - though if it's tank you're worried about, you can out-tank and out-damage a permaboosting XL Raven. You won't need to take any heart pills with this ship, it'll sit in the mission forever, gradually whittling down the enemies. It's boring. But it's easy and mindless and will definitely get you ISK quicker than firing torps at rats in level 3 missions. Level 4 missions are definitely a mindless grindfest just like level 3s as soon as you get the hang of them. I had an alt running them comfortably with less than a month's training; it's a matter of tactics, not skills.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.07.07 13:38:00 - [35] Rigors don't work on torps btw. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.07 14:01:00 - [36] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Rigors don't work on torps btw. Ah right you are - that's a shame (and no doubt by design). Dual painters it is then...
LaDy PuRe	Posted - 2009.07.07 18:40:00 - [37] Quote: If you like mindless with no risk, then a max-tank Drake will take anything that level 4 missions can throw at it (it'll tank something like 1500 incoming DPS for anything except Amarrian enemies); it's not hard to set up, simply: Lows: 4x Shield Power Relays Mids: 2 x Large Shield Extenders, 4 x Mission-specific hardeners Highs: 7x Heavy Missile Launchers Rigs: 3 x Core Defence Field Purgers This will do really mediocre damage - though if it's tank you're worried about, you can out-tank and out-damage a permaboosting XL Raven. You won't need to take any heart pills with this ship, it'll sit in the mission forever, gradually whittling down the enemies. It's boring. But it's easy and mindless and will definitely get you ISK quicker than firing torps at rats in level 3 missions. Level 4 missions are definitely a mindless grindfest just like level 3s as soon as you get the hang of them. I had an alt running them comfortably with less than a month's training; it's a matter of tactics, not skills. while i agree with you it needs pointing out that a drake fitted like that for a low sp player doesnt work quite so well. you either lose lots of tankability and fit passive hardeners or use active and cap out in well under 18 minutes. roughly how long it will take you to kill say 3 battleships
Weight What	Posted - 2009.07.07 19:58:00 - [38] Originally by: Aus Dog Used to be Level 3's I didn't really get my heart thumping and after three heart attacks GOOD START Quote: I have to control how much stimulation I get. ...now finish the job (ingame) ----------------------------------------------- Annonymous, trading as "Weight What".
Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.07 20:32:00 - [39] Some great info so while I'm working on that can anyone answer one so I can work on my Drake? I started looking at Blasters and Railguns to track and get those fast frigates that tickle your nose. Unfortunately they changed the Tracking data so it's difficult to compare all the possibilities AND then they also changed the power data as well. Doing Active shielding for the moment(a bad habit picked up in my Maelstrom) I saw the blasters taking a percentage of the cap. When it says 40% does it actually **** your cap THAT bad? To save a lot of money experimenting what is the best tracking and most damaging gun from 0-5km that especially will not bone my cap? I'm sure everyone has their fav but throw some ideas my way please. Seems as tracking improves damage takes a nose dive. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.07 20:33:00 - [40] Some great info so while I'm working on that can anyone answer one so I can work on my Drake? I started looking at Blasters and Railguns to track and get those fast frigates that tickle your nose. Unfortunately they changed the Tracking data so it's difficult to compare all the possibilities AND then they also changed the power data as well. Doing Active shielding for the moment(a bad habit picked up in my Maelstrom) I saw the blasters taking a percentage of the cap. When it says 40% does it actually **** your cap THAT bad? To save a lot of money experimenting what is the best tracking and most damaging gun from 0-5km that especially will not gobble my cap? I'm sure everyone has their fav but throw some ideas my way please. Seems as tracking improves damage takes a nose dive. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain

Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.07 20:34:00 - [41] Some great info so while I'm working on that can anyone answer one so I can work on my Drake? I started looking at Blasters and Railguns to track and get those fast frigates that tickle your nose. Unfortunately they changed the Tracking data so it's difficult to compare all the possibilities AND then they also changed the power data as well. Doing Active shielding for the moment(a bad habit picked up in my Maelstrom) I saw the blasters taking a percentage of the cap. When it says 40% does it actually **** your cap THAT bad? To save a lot of money experimenting what is the best tracking and most damaging gun from 0-5km that especially will not gobble my cap? I'm sure everyone has their fav but throw some ideas my way please. Seems as tracking improves damage takes a nose dive. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.07 20:36:00 - [42] Some great info so while I'm working on that can anyone answer one so I can work on my Drake? I started looking at Blasters and Railguns to track and get those fast frigates that tickle your nose. Unfortunately they changed the Tracking data so it's difficult to compare all the possibilities AND then they also changed the power data as well. Doing Active shielding for the moment(a bad habit picked up in my Maelstrom) I saw the blasters taking a percentage of the cap. When it says 40% does it actually **** your cap THAT bad? To save a lot of money experimenting what is the best tracking and most damaging gun from 0-5km that especially will not gobble my cap? I'm sure everyone has their fav but throw some ideas my way please. Seems as tracking improves damage takes a nose dive. What a laugh. They are sensoring a word that has lots of uses beside the one they think of. When I broke my arm I broke a bone. Maybe it's only censored as a verb. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.07 20:39:00 - [43] Some great info so while I'm working on that can anyone answer one so I can work on my Drake? I started looking at Blasters and Railguns to track and get those fast frigates that tickle your nose. Unfortunately they changed the Tracking data so it's difficult to compare all the possibilities AND then they also changed the power data as well. Doing Active shielding for the moment(a bad habit picked up in my Maelstrom) I saw the blasters taking a percentage of the cap. When it says 40% does it actually **** your cap THAT bad? To save a lot of money experimenting what is the best tracking and most damaging gun from 0-5km that especially will not gobble my cap? I'm sure everyone has their fav but throw some ideas my way please. Seems as tracking improves damage takes a nose dive. What a laugh. They are sensoring a word that has lots of uses beside the one they think of. When I broke my arm I broke a bone. Maybe it's only censored as a verb.And the word for unlawful carnal knowledge is censored as well? Good Lord. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.07.07 20:42:00 - [44] Nice quintuple post bro. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.08 08:16:00 - [45] Originally by: Aus Dog I started looking at Blasters and Railguns to track and get those fast frigates that tickle your nose. What you want here are drones, by the way. Five light drones will annihilate frigates far better than anything you could mount on your battleship, and they won't take up precious high slots. Quote: Unfortunately they changed the Tracking data so it's difficult to compare all the possibilities AND then they also changed the power data as well. I really don't understand this bit. Who's "they" and what are the two points in time that the tracking data changed between? There haven't been any patches affecting tracking for a while... Quote: Doing Active shielding for the moment(a bad habit picked up in my Maelstrom) I saw the blasters taking a percentage of the cap. When it says 40% does it actually ** your cap THAT bad? Active shield tanking is perfectly standard on a Raven - in fact, trying to passive tank it will cause people to laugh at you (since you can get more damage and tank out of a passive-tanked Drake). Blasters don't take a percentage of your cap, though - I've got no idea where you got that figure from, since showing info on a blaster the only thing measured in percentage is the overload damage bonus (which is always 15% anyway IIRC). Anyway, they don't take a percentage of cap, but rather a set amount of cap every time they're fired. This is listed as the "activation cost" when you Show Info. This is the cost per shot, so the rate they drain cap (in GJ/sec) is activation cost/rate of fire. But really, your best bet is to get hold of EFT which will do this for you behind the scenes, rather than whipping out the calculator and spending 10 minutes working this out for a variety of weapons. Quote:** To save a lot of money experimenting what is the best tracking and most damaging gun from 0-5km that especially will not gobble my cap? I'm sure everyone has their fav but throw some ideas my way please. Drones are still the answer, by the way, but since you asked... It really depends on what you intend to be shooting. So long as you have "enough" tracking, then more won't help you much (i.e. if you're already hitting 95% of the time or more, you cannot get more than a 5% increase in damage from better tracking, so something that does 10% less damage with more tracking will always be worse in that situation). Assuming you're going after frigates, though, it's probably fair to say that medium turrets will have sufficient problems hitting that smalls will always do more actual damage on target (certainly this is exactly what CCP intend). When it comes to taking cap to fire - there's three types of turret (laser, hybrid, projectile) and lasers take a lot of cap to fire, hybrids take a moderate amount and only projectiles take no cap at all. So if you want to be completely capless, projectiles would be the only option. However, since turrets don't take a percentage of your cap but a given amount, and since this amount (for light turrets) is designed to work with a frigate's capacitor, your battleship will likely not notice the cap drain of light turrets much. As it happens though, autocannons would be a good choice of turret anyway - they're the fastest tracking of all the turrets, and while their damage isn't great you get generous falloff giving decent effectiveness at longer ranges, and the ability to choose damage types (to some extent) making them more versatile against a variety of factions. Blasters would work quite well too, neutrons in particular having the range you need while doing the most damage of any small turret, with reasonable tracking. But seriously, use drones for this anyway.
Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.08 11:43:00 - [46] I absolutely know you are right about the drones but having too much fun finding and a decent gun for out to 10km. And you were sure right about Large missiles being much more efficient than Torps. The 200mm Scout with Sabot round is wonderful at tracking but the damage sucks. Yes I know a hit with a 22 is better than a miss with an elephant gun. Wound up with the Dual 180mm Scout as the best trade-off. I had heard that target painters were more useful and or necessary for an attacking fleet when you want to concentrate on the commanders priority call. And the "they" is the original CCP software scribes. The blasters don't have a cap usage percentage but the ammo they use does. Anywhere from 5% cap to 50% cap. As I said in a diff post that would be like a 100 watt light bulb using more juice at my neighbors house than mine. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.07.08 12:54:00 - [47] Originally by: Aus Dog ...The blasters don't have a cap usage percentage but the ammo they use does. Anywhere from 5% cap to 50% cap. As I said in a diff post that would be like a 100 watt light bulb using more juice at my neighbors house than mine. hybrid ammo cap mod affects turret's activation cost. turrets have discreet amount for activation costs, and is not a percentage of total cap.
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa Minmatar The Perfect Harvesting Experience	Posted - 2009.07.08 14:12:00 - [48] Have you seriously been using torpedoes in lvl 2 and 3 missions ? THAT is so 2005. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Paper Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.07.08 15:13:00 - [49] Jagga. Lemme see if I got you right. Where the Hybrid Ammo says a percent of cap affected it is referring to the effect of fitting the Turret to the boat initially. Not the operating "cost"? And Gartel. Your ideas on the Drake took me back a ways so I got one. But you recommend 4X Shield Power Relays and not three with one Ballistic Control.I don't remember the Drakes' passive shield tank being that weak. And why not two or at least one Invuln Field II and maybe a passive Em shield? Is that too much strain on the Cap? "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
Riedlim	Posted - 2009.07.08 16:43:00 - [50] Originally by: Aus Dog They are doing a fine job at 19 or less. Being that I take the trouble and expense to use Caldari Navy Torps I would like a bit more damage but you get what you get. Used to be Level 3's I didn't really get my heart thumping and after three heart attacks I have to control how much stimulation I get. The difference in DPS between Level 3 and Level 2 is absurd. I think after having run so many Level 3's they arbitrarily crank up the NPC's DPS to make it a challenge again. JC. I enjoy mindless repitition. Takes my mind away. When you run a level 4 and have to take your BP that is not good. That's why I dropped back to no higher that Level 3 and now it's getting to be too much. Level 2's are only good for light testing. I realize if I wanted mindless repitition I should play WOw but that really is brain-dead. Just turn back Level 3 to what it was a month ago. Please. Three heart attacks? Have you had anyone nnja salvage a mission of yours yet?

Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.08 17:41:00 - [51] Originally by: Aus Dog Jagga. Lemme see if I got you right. Where the Hybrid Ammo says a percent of cap affected it is referring to the effect of fitting the Turret to the boat initially. Not the operating "cost"? No. No, no, no. Hybrid turrets take capacitor energy to fire (the "operating cost"). This figure is listed on the stats of the turret itself. However, some ammo (especially the very high-damage or very long-range ammo) takes more capacitor to fire than others, which is where the cap use percentage on the ammo comes in. Basically, if the turret says it takes 4 GJ of capacitor to fire, and you load ammo into it with a -50% cap modifier (i.e. Lead charges), then the turret will take only 2 GJ per shot when firing that ammo. If you loaded some ammo with a -24% cap modifier (i.e. Iridium charges) the turret will take 3.04 GJ cap per shot. And so on. Quote: And Gartel. Your ideas on the Drake took me back a ways so I got one. But you recommend 4X Shield Power Relays and not three with one Ballistic Control.I don't remember the Drakes' passive shield tank being that weak. And why not two or at least one Invuln Field II and maybe a passive Em shield? Is that too much strain on the Cap? I recommended that fitting for running level 4s if you've got a weak heart and find them worrying. The 4 SPR Drake will be able to tank anything they throw at you, while you slowly complete them, find your feet and let fear be replaced by boredom. I wouldn't actually recommend four SPRs for general use (as you point out, you can probably for even level 4s with one or maybe even two BCS), this was simply to give you a nearly impermeable tank initially. Invulnerability fields are a bad idea for most missions, simply because they give less effect than mission-specific hardeners. Against Guristas, for example, roughly 75% of the incoming damage is Kinetic (with the remaining 25% Thermal), so there's little point hardening your other resistances. The EM hardener would be completely useless, and the invulns would be much less effective than appropriate specific hardeners. To support this with numbers, let's assume we have a Drake with 3 purger rigs, 4 SPRs and 3 LSEs and want to add resistances to the three remaining midslots. With all skills at 5, your modules (2 x invuln and a passive EM) will tank 922 DPS against Guristas. On the other hand, one active kinetic hardener, one active thermal hardener and a passive kinetic hardener give a tank of 1476 DPS, over 50% better. PvP is different, but when you're facing missions with predictable damage you don't need to omni-tank, and doing so is counterproductive (unless of course the mission really is throwing roughly equal amounts of all damage types at you).


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